LeBron spent 7 years in Cleveland; Durant has spent 7 years in OKC; Let's compare

[EnoughSaid]

Lebron's playoff record in Cleveland: 42-29, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings
KD's playoff record in OKC: 39-34, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings

Durant has had the waaaaaay superior supporting cast, and he hasn't been blamed or rediculed the same way LeBron was. Is it just that Durant isn't as good?

- Got this from r/nba.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Watch people play the western conference card. When Lebron played with absolute garbage in Cleveland :cheers:

[Kiddlovesnets]

Lebron was believed to be a future top 10-15 player before he even entered the league, Durant was never meant to be as good he is right now. The expectation is different.

[Fudge]

:roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron was believed to be a future top 10-15 player before he even entered the league, Durant was never meant to be as good he is right now. The expectation is different.
Won an MVP and was even pimped by many as being the best player in the league. So many excuses for this clown :facepalm

[Lebronxrings]

Lebron was believed to be a future top 10-15 player before he even entered the league, Durant was never meant to be as good he is right now. The expectation is different.
this. Lebron was so hyped and he has lived up to it. Not everyone can be jordan/lebron level.

[Lebronxrings]

:roll:
Fudge so mad he can't speak. :roll:

[LongLiveTheKing]

KD had Westbrook WAY better than anyone Lebron played with. Not to mention Harden and Ibaka

[Im Still Ballin]

Team Lebron owning this thread.

Good hustle, boys.

[Fudge]

Fudge so mad he can't speak. :roll:
*type

[moe94]

Lebron was believed to be a future top 10-15 player before he even entered the league, Durant was never meant to be as good he is right now. The expectation is different.

Fvck are you talking about? Durant was arguably the greatest freshman ever. :roll:

[AnaheimLakers24]

kd plays in west. hes far more accomplished already. bran aint shdit without wade

thats saying a lot cause wade is trash but they got gay allen an bosh to save em

[tpols]

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?

[Im Still Ballin]

Fvck are you talking about? Durant was arguably the greatest freshman ever. :roll:
Once again.

More proof Moe and Fudge are the same person

[SilkkTheShocker]

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?
Bring it up all you want. Compare the talent between the two teams. One plays
With the best PG in the league, a top PF, a 6th man of the year candidate, etc. The other one played with Sasha Pavlovic and Eric snow.

[WindmiLL]

Lebron was believed to be a future top 10-15 player before he even entered the league, Durant was never meant to be as good he is right now. The expectation is different.


When people compare Durant to a player who was supposed to be a future top 10-15 player as you say or some even say that Durant is better, then expectations should be completely the same or even higher for Durant. But clearly expectations are way lower for Durant because he actually isn't close to Lebron.

[moe94]

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?

Ibaka is head and shoulders better than anyone LeBron had in Cleveland.

[tpols]

Ibaka is head and shoulders better than anyone LeBron had in Cleveland.

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?

:lol

[Im Still Ballin]

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?

:lol
The Boston 3 party was better than ANY team Durant has faced... Maybe not Spurs this year

[PsychoBe]

Fvck are you talking about? Durant was arguably the greatest freshman ever. :roll:

so great that he was taken number 2 :facepalm

just face it. bran was hyped much, much, MUCH more than kd ever was. even rose was arguably more hyped than durant was. revisionist history at its finest :lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

Ibaka is head and shoulders better than anyone LeBron had in Cleveland.
Kobe stans avoid talking about Bron's Cleveland teammates at all cost. :oldlol:

[PsychoBe]

The Boston 3 party was better than ANY team Durant has faced... Maybe not Spurs this year

can we get the average win totals of the teams they faced please?

[moe94]

so great that he was taken number 2 :facepalm

just face it. bran was hyped much, much, MUCH more than kd ever was. even rose was arguably more hyped than durant was. revisionist history at its finest :lol

He was taken number 2 because of the big man rule. Oden was also a great prospect.

The bold is pure nonsense and you know it. :coleman:

[DMV2]

Durant has had the waaaaaay superior supporting cast... TRUE

and he hasn't been blamed or rediculed the same way LeBron was...TRUE b/c Russ gets all the blame.

Is it just that Durant isn't as good? TRUE...to simplify it, 2 MVP in Cleveland over 1 in OKC.

It's also true that the WC has been a lot more competitive than the weak EC.

So what's there to argue about? :confusedshrug:

[ImKobe]

Obviously KD has played in a tougher conference. You can't compare the numbers like they had identical opponents. KD faced the Lakers, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs, who did Lebron face in the East? Didn't prime Lebron lose to the same Mavericks team in 2011? KD put up 29 8 4 on the same team that held Lebron to 17 ppg...And KD in his only Finals at least showed up while Lebron was garbage against the Spurs.

With that being said, I'm on Team Lebron's side here. KD has been a complete no-show in the Playoffs for 2 consecutive years. Choked badly last year without Russ and was a sidekick this year. At least Lebron had some great Playoff runs even when he did lose, like 2009.

[Mr. Jabbar]

the east lol

[Im Still Ballin]

the east lol
PM ME BIG CUZ

[EnoughSaid]

Average total of wins by teams they faced in the Playoffs:

LeBron: 50 wins
Durant: 53 wins

Durant made the WCFs 3 times (2011, 2012, 2014), and the Finals once (2012)

LeBron made the ECFs 2 times (2007, 2009) and the Finals once (2007)

LeBron won 2 MVPs and one scoring title in his tenure at Cleveland

Durant has won 1 MVP and 4 scoring titles in his tenure at OKC

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Reggie Jackson will probably be a better offensive player than anybody LeBron played with.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Let's not forget that Durant went to college for a year as well.

[DMV2]

Obviously KD has played in a tougher conference. You can't compare the numbers like they had identical opponents. KD faced the Lakers, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs, who did Lebron face in the East? Didn't prime Lebron lose to the same Mavericks team in 2011? KD put up 29 8 4 on the same team that held Lebron to 17 ppg...And KD in his only Finals at least showed up while Lebron was garbage against the Spurs.

With that being said, I'm on Team Lebron's side here. KD has been a complete no-show in the Playoffs for 2 consecutive years. Choked badly last year without Russ and was a sidekick this year. At least Lebron had some great Playoff runs even when he did lose, like 2009.
If any performance in recent history defines empty stats, Durant's 2011 Finals performance was it. It was the definition of empty stats. It's funny how Russ took all the blame when he was the only Thunder player who played with any heart out there.

I don't care how many points Durant had, you as part of the OKC frontcourt, cannot allow Bosh to grab 15 boards in a game. Bosh had a couple more games where he match OKC's frontcourt rebounds. Bosh living inside allowed LeBron to beast up in the paint. Ibaka, Perks, Collison and 6'11" Durant are to be blamed for that.

[imnew09]

KD hasn't made The Decision yet

[Rocketswin2013]

Once again.

More proof Moe and Fudge are the same person
Bro...

[ImKobe]

If any performance in recent history defines empty stats, Durant's 2011 Finals performance was it. It was the definition of empty stats. It's funny how Russ took all the blame when he was the only Thunder player who played with any heart out there.

I don't care how many points Durant had, you as part of the OKC frontcourt, cannot allow Bosh to grab 15 boards in a game. Bosh had a couple more games where he match OKC's frontcourt rebounds. Bosh living inside allowed LeBron to beast up in the paint. Ibaka, Perks, Collison and 6'11" Durant are to be blamed for that.

Empty stats? KD was mostly guarding Lebron and was in foul trouble through games 2-5. He scored 17 points in 4th quarter of Game 1 to give OKC their only win in the series and he scored 18 pts in the 4th of Game 2, but the refs didn't call a James foul on KD on a shot that would have sent the game to OT and Lebron got 3 straight home games to win the series.

Let's not also forget how horrible Westbrook was in that series. He had a good showing in Game 4 with his point total, but his decision making was flat out horrible, even Magic Johnson called out Westbrook and said he played the worst half of basketball any point guard has ever played. Westbrook also helped Miami win Game 4 by intentionally fouling Chalmers when OKC was down 3 points, there was 10+ seconds to play and only 5 seconds on the shot clock due to the jump ball :facepalm

If anything, KD was the only player on the Thunder that gave Miami trouble in that series. With Harden going ghost and Westbrook making one bone-headed play after another, Miami coasted to a title via all the open threes they got.

But this was really not even the argument, Lebron played like total garbage in the 2007 Finals and it's not like the Spurs won every game by 20-30 points, the games in that series were close. Lebron just never showed up. Cavs lost their last game IIRC by 3 points.

[Beastmode88]

KD hasn't made The Decision yet

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Unbiased_one]

Empty stats? KD was mostly guarding Lebron and was in foul trouble through games 2-5. He scored 17 points in 4th quarter of Game 1 to give OKC their only win in the series and he scored 18 pts in the 4th of Game 2, but the refs didn't call a James foul on KD on a shot that would have sent the game to OT and Lebron got 3 straight home games to win the series.

Let's not also forget how horrible Westbrook was in that series. He had a good showing in Game 4 with his point total, but his decision making was flat out horrible, even Magic Johnson called out Westbrook and said he played the worst half of basketball any point guard has ever played. Westbrook also helped Miami win Game 4 by intentionally fouling Chalmers when OKC was down 3 points, there was 10+ seconds to play and only 5 seconds on the shot clock due to the jump ball :facepalm

If anything, KD was the only player on the Thunder that gave Miami trouble in that series. With Harden going ghost and Westbrook making one bone-headed play after another, Miami coasted to a title via all the open threes they got.

But this was really not even the argument, Lebron played like total garbage in the 2007 Finals and it's not like the Spurs won every game by 20-30 points, the games in that series were close. Lebron just never showed up. Cavs lost their last game IIRC by 3 points.

Classic example of someone who never actually watches the games :facepalm:

[Beastmode88]

Classic example of someone who never actually watches the games :facepalm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvMG7mZGo04

[Dresta]

KD is an overrated son of a whore.

[kNicKz]

Eastern Conference

:roll:

[K Xerxes]

Through the first 7 years, LeBron is a better player.

What more is there to say?

[jzek]

Durant has Westbrook though and LeBron had Mo Williams

It's like comparing a Lamborghini with a Honda

[ImKobe]

Classic example of someone who never actually watches the games :facepalm:

So, care to refute anything in my post? Since you've watched every minute of the NBA, you must have better examples and more knowledge on the subject than me. I'll be waiting for a well-detailed response now.

[LeBron 06]

Empty stats? KD was mostly guarding Lebron and was in foul trouble through games 2-5. He scored 17 points in 4th quarter of Game 1 to give OKC their only win in the series and he scored 18 pts in the 4th of Game 2, but the refs didn't call a James foul on KD on a shot that would have sent the game to OT and Lebron got 3 straight home games to win the series.

Let's not also forget how horrible Westbrook was in that series. He had a good showing in Game 4 with his point total, but his decision making was flat out horrible, even Magic Johnson called out Westbrook and said he played the worst half of basketball any point guard has ever played. Westbrook also helped Miami win Game 4 by intentionally fouling Chalmers when OKC was down 3 points, there was 10+ seconds to play and only 5 seconds on the shot clock due to the jump ball :facepalm

If anything, KD was the only player on the Thunder that gave Miami trouble in that series. With Harden going ghost and Westbrook making one bone-headed play after another, Miami coasted to a title via all the open threes they got.

But this was really not even the argument, Lebron played like total garbage in the 2007 Finals and it's not like the Spurs won every game by 20-30 points, the games in that series were close. Lebron just never showed up. Cavs lost their last game IIRC by 3 points.


Durant was great in game 1 and 2,but very average in game 3-4-5

[BigBoss]

Tougher competition. Kevin Durant is on track and one collude away from surpassing Lebron

[Hey Yo]

Tougher competition. Kevin Durant is on track and one collude away from surpassing Lebron
You're predicting KD's going to do something illegal? Something against league rules?

[PsychoBe]

He was taken number 2 because of the big man rule. Oden was also a great prospect.

The bold is pure nonsense and you know it. :coleman:

even though there weren't many traditional big-men in bran's draft class, i think we both know it wouldnt had mattered.

and the key word was arguably, but i think you know i'm right, at least from the city of chicago's perspective he was very hyped.

[ImKobe]

Durant was great in game 1 and 2,but very average in game 3-4-5

He was in foul trouble and Game 5 was never close with everyone raining 3s on OKC. Overall he had a good series. He was exceptional at home but had a tougher time on the road, he didn't have one bad shooting game in that series though and he put up 32 & 11 in Game 5, he played well enough (at least on the offensive end) for OKC to win more games in that series, but the TEAM simply didn't show up. One attribute is Brooks' horrible coaching & running ISOs all game, second is Harden and Ibaka playing like garbage. He had his flaws, his playmaking was non-existant (his passing wasn't developed nearly enough in 2012) and he had trouble guarding Lebron due to his skinnier frame. only shooting under 50% once in that series (47% in that one game), he showed up in the role that he did play for his team, other guys didn't do their job as well as KD did.

[Keno]

the difference is durant has a top 5 player in the league on his team. lebron had literally no one.

[lilgodfather1]

Different class of player. One was the best player in the league for nearly half his career at that point, and the other isn't even comfortably the best player on his team.

[DonDadda59]

Eastern Conference...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnuzWiLIgAAmw0r.jpg:large

[Beastmode88]

the difference is durant has a top 5 player in the league on his team. lebron had literally no one.

I guess that's why they were able to take 2 games from the spurs instead of getting swept. :roll:

[Unbiased_one]

Tougher competition. Kevin Durant is on track and one collude away from surpassing Lebron


Average teams played in the playoffs in first 7 years:

Lebron:50 wins
Durant: 53 wins.

Hardly a big difference.

[Basketball IQ]

Lebron had to also deal with the grimy defense of the east back then.

[PsychoBe]

Lebron had to also deal with the grimy defense of the east back then.

you mean the "grimy" gilbert arenas wizards? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LeBron 06]

you mean the "grimy" gilbert arenas wizards? :roll: :roll: :roll:



Boston,Detroit and even Orlando in 2009....

[zoom17]

Different class of player. One was the best player in the league for nearly half his career at that point, and the other isn't even comfortably the best player on his team.

:applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Fudge so mad he can't speak. :roll:

LMFAOOOO!!!!

[East_Stone_Ya]

kd plays in west. hes far more accomplished already. bran aint shdit without wade

thats saying a lot cause wade is trash but they got gay allen an bosh to save em

lol

[Kiddlovesnets]

Fvck are you talking about? Durant was arguably the greatest freshman ever. :roll:

Well Durant was believed to be another melo entering the league. He was a great freshman, but its not like he was any better than Melo in college or in his rookie season. Lebron was considered on a completely different level, an absolute beast that everyone agrees that should end up in top 10-15 the moment he retires. Was Durant or Melo expected to be top 15 or even top 25 before the draft? I doubt so.

[stephanieg]

Durant isn't much of a lighting rod. He doesn't have a "chosen 1" tattoo or use Jordan's number. And I don't think he's defended crab dribbling yet. Though in fairness, he does complain about calls a lot despite the rip through thing. I think being able to plow through people at will is a better ref edge though.

[Solefade]

i don't know how you can watch these playoffs the past 3 years and possibly think KD is better than Lebron..who gives a fvck what conference you're playing against when you play like shit in the first and 2nd rounds

[comerb]

Empty stats? KD was mostly guarding Lebron and was in foul trouble through games 2-5. He scored 17 points in 4th quarter of Game 1 to give OKC their only win in the series and he scored 18 pts in the 4th of Game 2, but the refs didn't call a James foul on KD on a shot that would have sent the game to OT and Lebron got 3 straight home games to win the series.

Let's not also forget how horrible Westbrook was in that series. He had a good showing in Game 4 with his point total, but his decision making was flat out horrible, even Magic Johnson called out Westbrook and said he played the worst half of basketball any point guard has ever played. Westbrook also helped Miami win Game 4 by intentionally fouling Chalmers when OKC was down 3 points, there was 10+ seconds to play and only 5 seconds on the shot clock due to the jump ball :facepalm

If anything, KD was the only player on the Thunder that gave Miami trouble in that series. With Harden going ghost and Westbrook making one bone-headed play after another, Miami coasted to a title via all the open threes they got.

But this was really not even the argument, Lebron played like total garbage in the 2007 Finals and it's not like the Spurs won every game by 20-30 points, the games in that series were close. Lebron just never showed up. Cavs lost their last game IIRC by 3 points.

Westbrook was tearing us up that series.

[Keno]

I guess that's why they were able to take 2 games from the spurs instead of getting swept. :roll:

even with a top 5 player, the spurs were about to sweep okc until the 3rd best player on the team, top 5 pf in the league came back.

[PickernRoller]

Durant>Bron. Both are frauds tho...only LeStans here circle jerking their boy's d1ck. How pathetic. :oldlol:

[paytonfan]

Kendrick Perkins

[Roundball_Rock]

How often does a team with the 2 best players in a series lose? If you take the second best player in the league, pair him with another top 5 player and other good players (Ibaka, Harden) he should win championships.

[Purch]

The reason that I tend to be harder on Lebron than Durant, is because I expect much more out of him. I've always viewed Lebron as the kind of player who has the potential to be one of the best players to ever play this game.Durant on the other hand I've felt he has the potential to be an elite scorer, but I don't think he contributes enough in other areas to have a legacy anywhere near Lebron.

So in general I critisize Lebron more than Durant, because I hold him to higher standerds

[Mrofir]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:

[Purch]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:
I'm not sure about that. I think Lebrons playmaking and improved post game has been instrumental in this run. I'm nt sure that KD can replicate that impact.

[Basketball IQ]

Instead of blaming Durant, we should be blaming Scott Brooks. He should be running plays to get KD open. Not running ISO ball.

[Mrofir]

I'm not sure about that. I think Lebrons playmaking and improved post game has been instrumental in this run. I'm nt sure that KD can replicate that impact.


The heat might very well be better with LeBron than they would be with KD, but you think the bobcats/wizards/pacers would have beaten this Heat team with KD? I don't see it.

The frustrating thing about Lebron is just how easy the runs have been through the ECF.. especially this year. I don't hate him and I wouldn't mind rooting for Lebron to take his legacy to the next level if he had to go through a tougher conference.

[aboss4real24]

Lebron did more with less

[Blue&Orange]

Lebron's playoff record in Cleveland: 42-29, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings
KD's playoff record in OKC: 39-34, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings

Durant has had the waaaaaay superior supporting cast, and he hasn't been blamed or rediculed the same way LeBron was. Is it just that Durant isn't as good?

- Got this from r/nba.
East west? You can't be this stupid.

[christian1923]

Lebron's playoff record in Cleveland: 42-29, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings
KD's playoff record in OKC: 39-34, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings

Durant has had the waaaaaay superior supporting cast, and he hasn't been blamed or rediculed the same way LeBron was. Is it just that Durant isn't as good?

- Got this from r/nba.
Durant wasn't deemed the chosen one is the difference

[JT123]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:
:oldlol: So Durant is going to both carry the scoring load, AND shut down Rose in the 2011 ECF? :biggums:
Go home dude, you are drunk. :roll: :roll:
Durant wouldn't get past the Pacers last season either, especially with Wade and Bosh putting up role player numbers in that series.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:

The Heat would not get past Indiana in 2012 (second round) and certainly would not beat Boston or Indiana in the ECF in 2012 and 2013. They would still reach the Finals in 2011 and probably would do so again this year with Durant. The Heat with Durant would be ringless, though.

[JT123]

East west? You can't be this stupid.
Westbrook and Ibaka >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mo Williams and Big Z
I guess you really ARE that stupid. :oldlol:

[aboss4real24]

Does KD Choke in 2011 finals tho?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:
KD will not win a single ring if you replace bron with him.
his playmaking( heat rely on brons playmaking) is way to suspect and he cant make up for the heats lack of good big men defenders.
have you ever seen Durant guard a bigger player??
its a damn massacre:coleman:

[Mrofir]

The Heat would not get past Indiana in 2012 (second round) and certainly would not beat Boston or Indiana in the ECF in 2012 and 2013. They would still reach the Finals in 2011 and probably would do so again this year with Durant. The Heat with Durant would be ringless, though.


I disagree, I think they replicate the same results. I think in many ways KD would be more effective against those pacer teams than Lebron. I could see them beating the Mavs in 11 with KD as well, but probably losing to the Spurs last year.

[Mrofir]

KD will not win a single ring if you replace bron with him.
his playmaking( heat rely on brons playmaking) is way to suspect and he cant make up for the heats lack of good big men defenders.
have you ever seen Durant guard a bigger player??
its a damn massacre:coleman:


bolded is a good point. I don't agree with the playmaking thing, people getting Durant's playmaking conflated with Westbrook

[stalkerforlife]

Durant plays in a much tougher conference.

Durant had to face the most stacked team in NBA history in the finals.

Durant is on track.

[Darius]

Why you even bothering with this?

As a guy with no dog in this fight, it's absolutely clear Lebron is better.

Anyone who argues otherwise is so delusional it's not even worth convincing them otherwise.

[Meticode]

Lebron's playoff record in Cleveland: 42-29, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings
KD's playoff record in OKC: 39-34, 8 playoff series wins, 1 Finals, 0 rings

Durant has had the waaaaaay superior supporting cast, and he hasn't been blamed or rediculed the same way LeBron was. Is it just that Durant isn't as good?

- Got this from r/nba.
West teams in the playoffs > East teams in playoffs

Enough said. No pun intended.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron has a better resume and is almost certainly going to go down as a better player than Durant, but KD on the Heat these past 4 years still produces 4 finals trips and 2-3 championships, same as LeBron. :confusedshrug:

ROFL...just no.

They would have real chances to lose to the Celtics and Bulls in 11. My best guess is that they lose to the Bulls in the ECF. Wade struggled in that series and without Lebron's playmaking and defense/rebounding...the heat would have been lost. All of those games were close after the Heat got blown out in game 1. Definitely don't see the Heat winning that series.

12? Hell no....no way does Durant get them past the Celtics without Bosh.

13? Again...hell no. That Pacers team gave the Heat nightmares and Wade/Bosh played like absolute dog shit. How is a worse player that doesn't set people up going to improve the team here?

14? Hell yes...the Heat definitely make the finals. Only to get murked by the Spurs with Durant leading the way for the Heat.


Even if I'm nice...the only chance they have to win the title is in 12, but I really don't see how they are getting by those Celtics without Bosh. Lebron had a 34/11/4 59% TS series and had elite impact defensively and the Heat were still on the brink going into game 6.

This is why I've had to be so hard on Durant...his fans and people on here act like he's done enough to warrant this shit. He hasn't...he's underperformed in that last two playoffs now...and honestly if it wasn't for Ibaka/Perkins going nuts in game 4 of the wcf...he probably doesn't make the finals once.

Now, to Durant's credit, he was a better player back in 12 in the playoffs for sure than he has been these last two years....so we can't give him no chance ot make it in place of Lebron, but that Celtics series would have asked an awful lot of him.

[funnystuff]

Does KD Choke in 2011 finals tho?
Nah, he just gets backdoor swept by Memphis in the 2ND ROUND after going to the finals the previous year. Whats worse?

[west_tip]

12? Hell no....no way does Durant get them past the Celtics without Bosh.


Even if I'm nice...the only chance they have to win the title is in 12, but I really don't see how they are getting by those Celtics without Bosh.

Bosh did not miss the series in its entirety if I recall correctly. He played in the pivotal 6th and 7th games, perhaps even the 5th.

[DMAVS41]

Bosh did not miss the series in its entirety if I recall correctly. He played in the pivotal 6th and 7th games, perhaps even the 5th.

He missed the first four iirc...pretty sure he came back in game 5 and was still hurt and played like a few minutes or something.

He was a beast in game 7 though...

[bdreason]

LeBron was not ridiculed when he was in Cleveland. Everyone recognized he was carrying an average team deep into the playoffs. It wasn't until the decision that people started really ridiculing LeBron, because he joined up with two other stars and guaranteed not 6, not 7, not 8...




I don't really see much ridicule for Durant either. He's starting to hear it this year for the first time in his career, and we'll see how he responds. The Thunder will be back next year.

[knicksman]

just because lebron doesnt make his teammates doesnt mean cavs didnt have comparable supporting casts. LOL and just because he has westbrook who posts superstar stats doesnt mean hes not carrying a cancer. Its better to have no casts than having a cancer you know. Id rather play with a rookie than play with iverson or marbury/arenas.

[TheMarkMadsen]

ROFL...just no.

They would have real chances to lose to the Celtics and Bulls in 11. My best guess is that they lose to the Bulls in the ECF. Wade struggled in that series and without Lebron's playmaking and defense/rebounding...the heat would have been lost. All of those games were close after the Heat got blown out in game 1. Definitely don't see the Heat winning that series.

12? Hell no....no way does Durant get them past the Celtics without Bosh.

13? Again...hell no. That Pacers team gave the Heat nightmares and Wade/Bosh played like absolute dog shit. How is a worse player that doesn't set people up going to improve the team here?

14? Hell yes...the Heat definitely make the finals. Only to get murked by the Spurs with Durant leading the way for the Heat.


Even if I'm nice...the only chance they have to win the title is in 12, but I really don't see how they are getting by those Celtics without Bosh. Lebron had a 34/11/4 59% TS series and had elite impact defensively and the Heat were still on the brink going into game 6.

This is why I've had to be so hard on Durant...his fans and people on here act like he's done enough to warrant this shit. He hasn't...he's underperformed in that last two playoffs now...and honestly if it wasn't for Ibaka/Perkins going nuts in game 4 of the wcf...he probably doesn't make the finals once.

Now, to Durant's credit, he was a better player back in 12 in the playoffs for sure than he has been these last two years....so we can't give him no chance ot make it in place of Lebron, but that Celtics series would have asked an awful lot of him.

Bosh killed it against the bulls.

[DMAVS41]

Bosh killed it against the bulls.

Yep. And I think a big reason for that was the playmaking of Lebron.

[imdaman99]

just because lebron doesnt make his teammates doesnt mean cavs didnt have comparable supporting casts. LOL and just because he has westbrook who posts superstar stats doesnt mean hes not carrying a cancer. Its better to have no casts than having a cancer you know. Id rather play with a rookie than play with iverson or marbury/arenas.
How far did Durant go without said cancer last year in the playoffs, captain dipshit?

As for the 7th years of both these guys, bran unceremoniously quit on the Cavs against the Celtics in 2010. Durant was still playing his heart out against the Spurs. He did bow out quietly, but he didn't quit.

[Mrofir]

I love posting completely reasonable opinions on here and then having people respond with "ROFL. Just no." -- really?

4 years ago if Durant had joined wade and bosh with the heat, they'd have been favored to win multiple championships. And they would have done just that. It's almost too simple to argue. You can go point to individual series, but the fact is the Heat have underachieved with their roster in the eastern conference. The tough series that they've had is evidence that this roster is not the sum of its parts, but their talent level so exceeds that of the rest of the league that they have won multiple rings anyway. Nobody knows exactly what would happen with Durant, but they'd have that same absurd talent edge.

[JohnFreeman]

Imstillballin wins again

[DMAVS41]

I love posting completely reasonable opinions on here and then having people respond with "ROFL. Just no." -- really?

4 years ago if Durant had joined wade and bosh with the heat, they'd have been favored to win multiple championships. And they would have done just that. It's almost too simple to argue. You can go point to individual series, but the fact is the Heat have underachieved with their roster in the eastern conference. The tough series that they've had is evidence that this roster is not the sum of its parts, but their talent level so exceeds that of the rest of the league that they have won multiple rings anyway. Nobody knows exactly what would happen with Durant, but they'd have that same absurd talent edge.

But you are forgetting reality.

There are a ton of serious issues with Durant leading that Heat team.

11 - Are they favored to beat the Bulls? Maybe, but why would Wade play better next to Durant? How are the Heat locking down on defense the way they do with lebron????? Even if they get past the Celtics and Bulls....they then have to beat the Mavs.

2011 is not even 50/50...

12 - probably the best chance, but again, Bosh didn't impact the series until really game 7. do they get to that game 7? does Durant play an epic road game 6 to carry the Heat home? real questions...and then he has to beat a very good team in the finals...again...probably not 50/50 but I'll say close to be overly fair

13 - the Heat were hurt and slumping. did you watch Durant without WB last year in the playoffs???? Now he's going to lead an injured Wade and slumping Bosh past the Pacers...who happen to match up perfectly. Who is running point? Who is making all the great passes Lebron normally does?

14 - Yep...the road to the finals was just so easy for the Heat that Durant would have cruised there. Totally agree.


I see 1 or 2 trips to the finals over the last 4 years. It's insulting to how good Lebron actually has been...and how little Durant really has proven in the playoffs to just gift him all this.

[tjgoHAM]

I wanna see a Durant decision :cheers:

[LongLiveTheKing]

KD without Westbrook lost last year to the Grizz, this year they won lol.

[Just2McFly]

Durant has Westbrook though and LeBron had Mo Williams

It's like comparing a Lamborghini with a Honda


Bad comparison, unless Mo Williams is the Lambo because they arent nearly as reliable as Honda's.:oldlol: :oldlol:

[Mrofir]

DMAVS -- good post.


I think this entire discussion comes down to one issue

How do we balance the expectations of this Heat superteam with the legacy and resume of Lebron?

When this team was put together, everyone was wondering not if they can win the championship, but if they could win 72 games, if they could sweep the playoffs, if they could win an absurd amount of championships in a row. On one hand, Lebron is the best player in the league and the best player in his generation and he deserves all the accolades. On the other, the reasonable expectation was that this team would win multiple championships --- this team would have been a contender with only bosh and wade.

Your posts are well articulated but I'll take it a step further and argue that without LeBron OR KD, this team would probably have made 2 finals appearances -- with only wade and bosh. That's how good they are. That's in line with the original expectations for this team. It was a championship contending team with just Bosh and Wade, and Lebron took them completely over the top.

Lebron is the best player, and will go down in the pantheon of all time greats. He doesn't deserve any asterisks, they all count. But when we're putting his legacy to the test it's only fair to remember the seriously absurd talent edge this Heat team has enjoyed over the rest of their conference. Regardless of what you think they would do with KD instead of Lebron, you must respect the fact that KD's team grew around him organically. Westbrook would not be the same player without KD. Harden, same thing. Ibaka, same thing. Hell, Scott Brooks for all his flaws wouldn't be as good of a coach without KD. And I honestly think Durant has a chance to catch Lebron over the next 5-7 years in terms of overall legacy. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's certainly possible.

The other thing I would add is that this Heat team has also grown a lot over the last few years. When making these types of hypothetical comparisons, it's not as interesting to me to just supplant LBJ with KD in a particular game or series and ask if he would've done the same thing. You have to allow for growth and progression and adaptation to roles and expectations. Maybe Chalmers would have thrived with a more under the radar superstar, same with Bosh. Maybe Chalmers would have turned into a poor man's Westbrook. Maybe Bosh would have embraced a more critical role defending the paint and anchoring the team inside. The team would be completely different with KD. Indiana would have made different moves in the offseasons. The entire timeline would be different -- but the one thing that would be the same is that Heat team would be favorites and I think they'd have found ways to win rings.

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS -- good post.


I think this entire discussion comes down to one issue

How do we balance the expectations of this Heat superteam with the legacy and resume of Lebron?

When this team was put together, everyone was wondering not if they can win the championship, but if they could win 72 games, if they could sweep the playoffs, if they could win an absurd amount of championships in a row. On one hand, Lebron is the best player in the league and the best player in his generation and he deserves all the accolades. On the other, the reasonable expectation was that this team would win multiple championships and the team would have been a contender with only bosh and wade.

Your posts are well articulated but I'll take it a step further and argue that without LeBron OR KD, this team would probably have made 2 finals appearances -- with only wade and bosh. That's how good they are. That's in line with the original expectations for this team. It was a championship contending team with just Bosh and Wade, and Lebron took them completely over the top.

Lebron is the best player, and will go down in the pantheon of all time greats. He doesn't deserve any asterisks, they all count. But when we're putting his legacy to the test it's only fair to remember the seriously absurd talent edge this Heat team has enjoyed over the rest of their conference. Regardless of what you think they would do with KD instead of Lebron, you must respect the fact that KD's team grew around him organically. Westbrook would not be the same player without KD. Harden, same thing. Ibaka, same thing. Hell, Scott Brooks for all his flaws wouldn't be as good of a coach without KD. And I honestly think Durant has a chance to catch Lebron over the next 5-7 years in terms of overall legacy. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's certainly possible.


Anything is possible.

I'm just not going to grant Durant titles when I don't see a ton of evidence that he could carry his play all the way through. Like I said, 12 would be his best shot...but the problem is that it would have taken a historic game 6 (if the Heat were still alive) just to get it to 7.

As easy as the Heat really have had it in terms of competition....people discount the Bosh injury in 12 and the Wade injury in 13 combined with Bosh playing like a bum and the rest of the team slumping.

Could Durant lead them to 4 straight finals? Possibly, but it's also reasonable to say he only makes the finals in 14.

I think it's something like 40/60 in 11. 50/50 in 12. 40/60 in 13. 100% in 14.

That is just to get to the finals. I definitely don't see them beating the Spurs in 13 or 14 in the finals (we just saw Durant lose to the Spurs)...

So it's a max of 2 titles in those 4 years...with a real possibility of 0.


And again...I totally agree the Heat have had it easy....it's just that Durant has really not done enough yet to prove himself as the leader in the playoffs.

I definitely think they win in 11 if they make the finals because the Mavs defense wouldn't have worked against Durant, but that Bulls team was a lot better than people remember....and everyone seems to forget not only how great Lebron was, but how great his style was for Bosh in that series...they also seem to forget how close each game was. Lebron made a ton of huge plays on both ends late in those games.

The real problem I see is that Durant seemed a year away from being the championship first option guy in 11....got there in 12...but has then regressed the last two years in the playoffs.

So just in terms of looking at his play...I just don't think he was good enough in 11, 13, and 14 to carry a team to the title. Now, Wade might have been able to step it up against the Bulls as he was a better player in 11 than Durant.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Damn, KD already been in the league for 7 years? ****.

[Ass Dan]

As a Laker fan I am gonna give it the real.

LeBron is the best player in the league since Shaq dominated at the turn of the century.

Shaq for a two year spell was more dominant than MJ (yes fact).

MJ has longevity over Shaq though, so MJ >>>>>>> Shaq career wise but Shaq's peak beats out MJ's.

Kobe did some nice things later in the first decade but he is nowhere near what LBJ does night in and night out on both ends of the floor. Sorry Lala, its true. Kobe can close and hit tougher shots, but LeBron is more a force of nature and an AAP.

Durant had a nice run this season, a volume scorer doing some volume scoring. but he needs to step up his playoff game, he needs to start letting teammates know he is Tony Miselli and Westbrook is Angela (that's a Whos the Boss reference for all you young nikkas out there).


If you want to get on some Kendrick Lamar shit (real real, really really real) its:

LeBron >>>>>>>> KD.

and that's just the way the story goes.

[Kingwillball]

Lebron was better end thread /

[J Shuttlesworth]

Obviously KD has played in a tougher conference. You can't compare the numbers like they had identical opponents. KD faced the Lakers, Spurs, Grizzlies, Mavs, who did Lebron face in the East? Didn't prime Lebron lose to the same Mavericks team in 2011? KD put up 29 8 4 on the same team that held Lebron to 17 ppg...And KD in his only Finals at least showed up while Lebron was garbage against the Spurs.

With that being said, I'm on Team Lebron's side here. KD has been a complete no-show in the Playoffs for 2 consecutive years. Choked badly last year without Russ and was a sidekick this year. At least Lebron had some great Playoff runs even when he did lose, like 2009.
Meh you can't really say that LeBron's numbers are inflated by playing the east. The East has tougher defenses in the West. This year was the only exception, but the #1 team in holding opponents to low PPG was the Pacers. Last few years, east has been far superior to the West. I made this thread a while ago, here's the post. Playing against tougher defenses doesn't give you bigger numbers.


2010-2011:
Philly 76ers: DRTG: 105 7th in the league
Boston Celtics: DRTG: 100.3 Best in the league
Chicago Bulls: DRTG: 100.3 Best in the league
Dallas Mavericks: DRTG: 105 8th in the league

2011-2012:

New York Knicks: DRTG: 100.5: 5th in the league
Indiana Pacers: DRTG: 103.1: 9th in the league
Boston Celtics: DRTG: 98.2 Best in the league
Oklahoma City Thunder (WEST IS THE BEST): DRTG: 103.2 10th in the league

2012-2013:
Milwaukee Bucks: DRTG: 105.2 12th in the league
Chicago Bulls: DRTG: 103.2 6th in the league
Indiana Pacers: DRTG: 99.8 Best in the league
San Antonio Spurs: DRTG: 101.2 3rd best in the league

Just for a little comparison, here is the path the Spurs had last year in the Western Conference (da best)
Los Angeles Lakers: DRTG: 106.6 17th in the league UNDER LEAGUE AVERAGE
Golden State Warriors: DRTG: 105.5 14th in the league
Memphis Grizzlies: DRTG: 100.3 Second in the league

2014 could be the only year where the Heat didn't have to face tough teams, but they're still facing tough defenses:

Bobcats: 103.8 -5th
Indiana: 99.3 - 1st
Chicago: 100.5 - 2nd
Wizards: 104.6 - 7th

Say the Thunder make the finals. Their road would likely be:
Memphis: 104.6 - 8th (perhaps deflated by Gasol's injury)
(if) LAC: 104.8 - 9th
(if) GSW: 102.6 - 4th (although they don't have Bogut, who is their biggest defensive presence)
(if) POR: 107.4 - 17th UNDER LEAGUE AVERAGE
(if) HOU: 106.3 - 13th
(if) DAL: 108.7 - 22nd UNDER LEAGUE AVERAGE
(if) SAS: 102.4 - 3rd

Interesting stuff. I have no doubt that the West is more stacked than the East, but the East still keeps up defensively. Also interesting that the Heat ALWAYS have to face the best defenses in the league, and even took the 2 best down in 2011

[GimmeThat]

it's a fair comparison.

as for teammates, I may argue that a scorer is easier to build around because it doesn't require high basketball IQ players to play next to a scorer.

as for Lebron, you are better off having players who knows where to be and what to do in order to maximize having a Lebron on your team.

[SamuraiSWISH]

If LeBron had a Westbrook esque player in Cleveland, I don't see what would've stopped him from winning rings in multiple seasons. Especially with a strong defensive supporting cast like Durant has had w/ OKC, and LeBron already had in Cleveland. I'd have them winning in 2009, and 2010 for sure.

[GimmeThat]

If LeBron had a Westbrook esque player in Cleveland, I don't see what would've stopped him from winning rings in multiple seasons. Especially with a strong defensive supporting cast like Durant has had w/ OKC, and LeBron already had in Cleveland. I'd have them winning in 2009, and 2010 for sure.

his coach.

[SamuraiSWISH]

his coach.
Mike Brown sucks, but so does Scott Brooks.

[NumberSix]

Dran is out of the playoffs. Let's stop talking about him like anyone cares about him.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

If LeBron had a Westbrook esque player in Cleveland, I don't see what would've stopped him from winning rings in multiple seasons. Especially with a strong defensive supporting cast like Durant has had w/ OKC, and LeBron already had in Cleveland. I'd have them winning in 2009, and 2010 for sure.
:applause: :applause:
GOAT gonna GOAT:bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Anyone that makes the argument that LeBron's Cleveland teammates maximized his talent is a full blown retard. The built around excuse is a nice way of saying his team severely lacked talent.

[BoutPractice]

Durant's first 7 years compare quite favorably to recent all-time greats such as Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron.

4 time regular season leading scorer, 3 time playoffs leading scorer, 1 time MVP (and top 2 in MVP voting 4 different years), 5 time All-Star, 4 time All-NBA first team, 1 Finals appearance, 3 WCF appearances. "Hasn't accomplished much" alright...

[DMAVS41]

Durant's first 7 years compare quite favorably to recent all-time greats such as Shaq, Kobe, and LeBron.

4 time regular season leading scorer, 3 time playoffs leading scorer, 1 time MVP (and top 2 in MVP voting 4 different years), 5 time All-Star, 4 time All-NBA first team, 1 Finals appearance, 3 WCF appearances. "Hasn't accomplished much" alright...

Durant over his first 7 years has been way better overall than Kobe was during his first 7.

The problem is that Kobe had Shaq and Phil and had 3 titles after 7 years.

The other problem is that in 01 and 02 especially in my opinion, Kobe was better than Durant has been yet as a player and what he can do in the playoffs.

So while Durant has been better overall...I think Kobe would have gotten at least 1 more trip to the finals out of this Thunder team...and perhaps a title. Not sure about that though.

But that is the benefit of Shaq/Phil for Kobe's legacy. He got 3 titles as the 2nd best player...his legacy boost is enormous off that.

[Pointguard]

Over the last two years Westbrook and Ibaka were definitely better than anybody in Clevelend, Westbrook actually the last three years. This year they were better than Wade and Bosh if you ask me. And Harden was better than anybody in Clevelend his last year in OKC as well. Their role players and bench much stronger as well over the last three years. The core has been together for five years and grew up meshing their games together. This is a tremendous advantage.

Lebron seems to me to be clearly more of a leader, more in control, and smarter than Durant. He definitely understands the game better after his third year in comparison to Durant now. While Durant is versatile, Lebron knows when to be a different player at the right times. This is not a knock on Durant who is clearly #2 and a great player on a great team. Durant can have more impressive stats and still be a lesser player. Having control over using your best assets and when to use it is key to excelling. Durant doesn't have that yet.

[Thorn]

Lebron's Cleveland playoff series:
06
Wizards 42-40 Win
Pistons 64-18 Loss

07
Wizards 41-41 Win
Nets 41-41 Win
Pistons 53-29 Win
Spurs 58-24 Loss

08
Wizards 43-39 Win
Celtics 66-16 Loss

09
Pistons 39-43 Win
Hawks 47-35 Win
Magic 59-23 Loss

10
Bulls 41-41 Win
Celtics 50-32 Loss

Durant's playoff series
10
Lakers 57-25 Loss

11
Nuggers 50-32 Win
Grizzlies 46-36 Win
Mavs 57-25 Loss

12
Mavs 36-30 44 win pace Win
Lakers 41-25 50 win pace Win
Spurs 50-16 62 win pace Win
Heat 46-20 57 win pace Loss

13
Rockets 45-37 Win, Westbrook out from Game 3 on
Grizzlies 56-26 Loss

14
Grizzlies 50-32 Win
Clippers 57-25 Win
Spurs 62-20 Loss

Average wins for Lebron series wins: 49
Average wins for Lebron series losses: 59

Average wins for Durant series wins: 50
Average wins for Durant series losses: 57

I rounded down when calculating averages and paces, since fractions of wins don't mean anything.

Now obviously some of those teams listed were better or worse than their record (for example 11 Grizzlies were better than their 46 wins, same with 10 Celtics with their 50 wins). I'm also not sure how much stock can be put into these W-L records due to the differences in the strength between conferences. For example the 48 win Warriors missed the playoffs in 08 and the Wizards were 5th seed with 43-39. So, not to open the can of worms that is East vs West strength, but those East teams are probably a few "wins" worse than their record. I mean...in 09 the Pistons got in with a sub .500 record. I doubt that's happened in the West since the 80s.

[diamenz]

Team Lebron owning this thread.

Good hustle, boys.

let's hit the showers.

[russwest0]

Can we get the average win total of the teams they faced please?

this would actually be pretty useful

[Nezty]

Durant has Westbrook though and LeBron had Mo Williams

It's like comparing a Lamborghini with a Honda

False, I wouldn't say Westbrook is a Lambo. He's not even close.

[The-Legend-24]

East.

[arifgokcen]

it's a fair comparison.

as for teammates, I may argue that a scorer is easier to build around because it doesn't require high basketball IQ players to play next to a scorer.

as for Lebron, you are better off having players who knows where to be and what to do in order to maximize having a Lebron on your team.
I know i shouldnt ask but have you ever played organized basketball in your life.

Its like saying playing with magic or stockton requires players to be more intelligent because they are great passers.

Dumbest post of the year

[Kiddlovesnets]

Do you think OKC fans will hate Durant if he leaves as much as Cleveland fans did to Lebron's decision?

[Unbiased_one]

Do you think OKC fans will hate Durant if he leaves as much as Cleveland fans did to Lebron's decision?

I doubt OKC have any real fans. They'll probably just start supporting whatever team he goes to.