Was Westbrook really the best player for OKC in the playoffs? *stats*

[J Shuttlesworth]

Per game:
Durant: 29.8 ppg, 8.9 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 1blk, on 49% shooting
Westbrook: 26.6, 7.5 reb, 1.9 stl, 8.1 ast .4 blk 42% shooting

Per 36:

Durant: 25/7.5/3.5
Westbrook: 24.6/7/7.5

When you consider the per minute production, Wesbrook looks better overall, and his defensive intensity, offensive rebounding (as a PG), and clutch steals really helped get them to the WCF.

Obviously nobody would be crazy to believe that Westbrook is better. Do you believe Westbrook outperformed Kevin Durant this post season?

[AnaheimLakers24]

no

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Per game:
Durant: 29.8 ppg, 8.9 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 1blk, on 49% shooting
Westbrook: 26.6, 7.5 reb, ????????? ast,1.9 stl, .4 blk 42% shooting

Per 36:

Durant: 25/7.5/3.5
Westbrook: 24.6/7/7.5

When you consider the per minute production, Wesbrook looks better overall, and his defensive intensity, offensive rebounding (as a PG), and clutch steals really helped get them to the WCF.

Obviously nobody would be crazy to believe that Westbrook is better. Do you believe Westbrook outperformed Kevin Durant this post season?
:coleman:
Bruh, KD barely, and I mean barely scores and rebounds more than WB. Meanwhile WB is actually getting his teammates easy looks.

Fvck outta here niqqa

[lilgodfather1]

Westbrook showed up in big moments. Where was Durant? Cryimg because he didn't get a pass.

[J Shuttlesworth]

:coleman:
Bruh, KD barely, and I mean barely scores and rebounds more than WB. Meanwhile WB is actually getting his teammates easy looks.

Fvck outta here niqqa
Sorry man I forgot the assists on westbrook. It's 8.1 per game

[J Shuttlesworth]

Westbrook. Even though he was terrible in the overtimes
To his credit, he was often the main reason the games went to overtime, instead of being a loss in the 4th

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Westbrook. Even though he was terrible in the overtimes
At least he wasn't scoreless

[Warfan]

To his credit, he was often the main reason the games went to overtime, instead of being a loss in the 4th

Yeah i agree, but 1/21:facepalm

Pretty sure he was 0/14 against memphis too...

[J Shuttlesworth]

How huge was this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkoGsmABRaA

Another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_8CuS2yoRk

[imnew09]

Goatbrook was huge in key moment. They went to OT last because mostly because of Goatbrook

[Young X]

Yeah i agree, but 1/21:facepalmThat can't be true :biggums:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Yeah i agree, but 1/21:facepalm

Pretty sure he was 0/14 against memphis too...

Wait, 1/21 in overtimes? :wtf: I have to double check that. No way.

[secund2nun]

Westbrook is a player that can be so much better than he currently is, which is a good complement because he currently is a good (yet overrated) player despite his chucking. Negative influences like the me first iso shot jacker chucker game that is glorified by the media and popular NBA culture have influenced him, like many before him, for the worst. Imagine if Westbrook played for the Spurs and was coached by Pop. He would be used and developed the right way. Random: Westbrook is definitely better than Rose.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Memphis Game 2: 0-2
Memphis Game 3: 0-7, 1-3 from the line
Memphis Game 4: 0-3
Memphis Game 5: 0-2
Spurs Game 6: 1-7, 2-2 from the line

:biggums:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wait he was really 1-7 in OT last night?

Honestly though, Durant was having the ball denied to him by Leonard though

[Im so nba'd out]

durant was better player vs griz
westbrook was better player vs la
westbrook was better player vs spurs (because spurs whole defense was designed to stop durant when he got the ball)

[J Shuttlesworth]

westbrook was better player vs spurs (because spurs whole defense was designed to stop durant when he got the ball)
Was it really? I seem to recall them letting Green do single coverage against Durant

[hawksdogsbraves]

Westbrook's rebounding numbers for a guard are nuts.

He also plays much better defense than Durant.

[Dresta]

Yep...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=westbru01&match=single&year_id=2014&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg
:roll:

oh man...

I think the answer to this is that they both sucked. Ibaka is OKC's MVP.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

:roll:

oh man...

I think the answer to this is that they both sucked. Ibaka is OKC's MVP.
http://dailythunder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Picture-11.png
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
KD and WB are not worthy

[Lordsteven]

http://dailythunder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Picture-11.png
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
KD and WB are not worthy

holy sh** :biggums:

[qrich]

Westbrook is OKC's motor, Ibaka is the heart of the team.

Durant is the spoiled kid who has his mother blow the officials to give him an edge.

[Denitron]

:lol

[MavsSuperFan]

Per game:
Durant: 29.8 ppg, 8.9 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 1blk, on 49% shooting
Westbrook: 26.6, 7.5 reb, 1.9 stl, 8.1 ast .4 blk 42% shooting

Per 36:

Durant: 25/7.5/3.5
Westbrook: 24.6/7/7.5

When you consider the per minute production, Wesbrook looks better overall, and his defensive intensity, offensive rebounding (as a PG), and clutch steals really helped get them to the WCF.

Obviously nobody would be crazy to believe that Westbrook is better. Do you believe Westbrook outperformed Kevin Durant this post season?
stats might contradict this, but my impression was that westbrooks defense (steals) almost won that series for okc.

[KungFuJoe]

1/21 in OT? What is this...Lebron James 2011 4th quarter Finals all over again?

[imdaman99]

1/21 is downright shitty... but who else wanted those shots in OT? Certainly not Durant.

[jrong]

Per game:
Durant: 29.8 ppg, 8.9 reb, 4 ast, 1 stl, 1blk, on 49% shooting
Westbrook: 26.6, 7.5 reb, 1.9 stl, 8.1 ast .4 blk 42% shooting


That tells you everything you need to know about the Thunder's problems.

Well, that and this: Durant: 22 FGA / Westbrook: 21 FGA

And this. Usage: Durant: 31.6 / Westbrook 34.3

Try to picture the Heat if Wade was shooting one less shot than James, making about 40 percent of them and had a higher usage. They would have been out in the second round, and they'd be a middle seed in the conference.

I said it in another thread, but I'm stupefied at Westbrook's sheer audacity. To in effect to tell the league MVP, that I'm back now, so you can slide over now while I play hero ball.

If any #2 option has earned the right to disregard that status, it's Wade (but, he doesn't). Westbrook hasn't done shit in this league. I don't know where this kid gets off, but trade him now, while the spotlight has inflated his value and some teams are probably fooled into thinking he's franchise cornerstone material.

[J Shuttlesworth]

That tells you everything you need to know about the Thunder's problems.

Well, that and this:

Durant: 22 FGA
Westbrook: 21 FGA

And this.

Usage:

Durant: 31.6
Westbrook 34.3

Try to picture the Heat if Wade was shooting one less shot than James, making about 40 percent of them and had a higher usage. They would have been out in the second round, and they would be a middle seed in the conference.

I said it in another thread, but I'm astounded at Westbrook's audacity. To in effect to tell the league MVP that you're back now, so he can slide over while you play hero ball.

If any #2 option has earned the right to disregard that status, it's Wade (but, he doesn't). Westbrook hasn't done shit in this league. I don't know where this kid gets off, but trade him now, while the spotlight has inflated his value and some teams are probably fooled into thinking he'd make a good franchise cornerstone.
Meh you're just not gonna convince me that Westbrook was the problem with the team. I never saw Durant calling for the ball late in the games, especially the close ones. I saw him calling for the ball in the 1st quarter, otherwise he wouldn't actively seek the ball. Plus Westbrook more than makes up for his 3% lower FG with his defensive intensity and assist numbers.

[jrong]

Meh you're just not gonna convince me that Westbrook was the problem with the team. I never saw Durant calling for the ball late in the games, especially the close ones. I saw him calling for the ball in the 1st quarter, otherwise he wouldn't actively seek the ball. Plus Westbrook more than makes up for his 3% lower FG with his defensive intensity and assist numbers.

Westbrook always shoots around that percentage. It's like water finding its own level, the FG% low of efficiency players like him, Harden, etc. settles around 40 percent.

The only reason James and Wade work is because of their combined efficiency.

And Westbrook's assist numbers just indicate how much he has the ball. If he's taking almost as many shots as Durant, has more assists and TOs, and taking more FTs, then he has the ball a lot more than Durant.

And that's a massive problem.

Durant's 46% shooting, which is quite low for him, I attribute largely to the presence of Westbrook making it extremely hard for him to get into rhythm.

[DMAVS41]

Westbrook always shoots around that percentage. It's like water finding its own level, the FG% low of efficiency players like him, Harden, etc. settles around 40 percent.

The only reason James and Wade work is because of their combined efficiency.

And Westbrook's assist numbers just indicate how much he has the ball. If he's taking almost as many shots as Durant, has more assists and TOs, and taking more FTs, then he has the ball a lot more than Durant.

And that's a massive problem.

Durant's 46% shooting, which is quite low for him, I attribute largely to the presence of Westbrook making it extremely hard for him to get into rhythm.

What playoffs were you watching?

If Durant had the ball much more than he currently did...the Thunder wouldn't even have gotten out of the first round.

You want Durant with the ball in his hands more? The dude was a walking turnover against single coverage all playoffs. It was pathetic.

What this team needs is more ball movement and properly defined roles...not more of the ball in Durant's hands. That would not work at all.

And no...what makes Lebron/Wade work the most is their defense. WB plays Wade level defense....Durant is maybe like 10% as good as Lebron on defense when Lebron tries.

That is the big difference. Durant doesn't have the strength or stamina to go all out on both ends the way Lebron does. When the Thunder really lock in defensively...they are Heat like and dominate teams. The problem is that Durant can barely do that for a few minutes a game...let alone 4 games in a series the way Wade/Lebron do.

Having said all that...this team is so close. Durant will likely fix a few of his issues...Reggie, Lamb, Adams, and Jones will all be better by the playoffs next year.

If they get a guy like Meeks to start at sg and then get 1 other impact player either via the draft or by trading...they will be one of the 1 or 2 best rosters in the league again and have a great chance to win it.

Presti ****ed them this year. We all know it and nobody calls him out but me. He could have easily traded for Meeks (1.5 million dollars) with a first round pick, Fisher (retire as a Laker), and Roberson. He might have been able to get it done for less.

Meeks probably has them in the finals because he solves so many issues. Instead, dumbass Presti and cheap ass ownership went with the Butler signing and trusted Fisher/Thabo....and benched Lamb.

Just horrible coaching and management after the all-star break for this team.

But this notion that WB/Durant can't or won't work? LOL...just no. And if it really can't...then it's on Durant...because if he could impact the game like Westbrook does with his defense/rebounding and just overall toughness...the Thunder would be the best team in the league quite easily.

[knicksman]

people really just look at stats without looking at the big picture. LOL these box scores heroes. Having two players jacking 20+ shots isnt going to work esp for a jumpshooting team or a team who relies on rhythm. Theres no chance for role players to get hot same with durant. Thats why durant plays better without westbrook. With westbrook they live and die with him but most often hes cold so they die with him. Hes what you call a cancer. An iverson whos impact is not even better than a reggie miller yet considered a superstar in this league. Durant is steroid version of reggie miller while westbrook is a poor mans iverson. And thats the gap between them. Only idiots think they are equal. Hes like marbury that once replaced by kidd, they went to the finals instead of a below .500 team.

Durant has proven he can carry the team without wb whereas what has score first pg done in this league. None. They havent won anything in this league as the man.

[SillyRabbit]

I watched every single Thunder game these playoffs and the majority of their games during the season. This is what I saw:

Durant was dominant during the regular season. Anyone who doesn't think he deserved the MVP is a complete moron.

Durant wasn't the same player in the playoffs. He looked exhausted and therefore transitioned into a more passive role. Playoff Durant wasn't nearly as good as regular season Durant.

Westbrook was flat out amazing these playoffs. He had some "Westbrook" moments of course, but overall he was the best player in the entire playoffs. Only James has a legitimate case against him, and considering the difference of competition, I think Westbrook comes out on top.

Durant still played well in the playoffs despite not being true to his MVP form, but Westbrook was better. This is not a slight on Durant, as Westbrook was better than everyone.

You also have to realize that defences plan their strategy around stopping Durant, and with a potato coach like Brooks who doesn't know how to adjust accordingly, Durant wasn't able to get very many open looks, easy switches or mismatches.

Westbrook on the other hand, was able to exploit mismatches and take advantage of teams who were too concerned with Durant.

Overall, Westbrook played better than Durant but that doesn't mean that Durant was bad, it just means that Westbrook was amazing. Brooks' overplaying of Durant during the regular season and playoffs contributed to Durant's passive play as he was exhausted for most of the post season. Not only did Durant lead the NBA in minutes played during the regular season and post season, but he plays hard minutes. I've never seen a superstar have to work so hard to make tough shots because his coach doesn't know how to draw up plays to get him easier baskets.

[DMAVS41]

people really just look at stats without looking at the big picture. LOL these box scores heroes. Having two players jacking 20+ shots isnt going to work esp for a jumpshooting team or a team who relies on rhythm. Theres no chance for role players to get hot same with durant. Thats why durant plays better without westbrook. With westbrook they live and die with him but most often hes cold so they die with him. Hes what you call a cancer. An iverson whos impact is not even better than a reggie miller yet considered a superstar in this league. Durant is steroid version of reggie miller while westbrook is a poor mans iverson. And thats the gap between them. Only idiots think they are equal. Hes like marbury that once replaced by kidd, they went to the finals instead of a below .500 team.

Durant has proven he can carry the team without wb whereas what has score first pg done in this league. None. They havent won anything in this league as the man.


Yea....Durant/Thunder looked great last year without Westbrook in the playoffs....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

What you are doing is failing to realize that the playoffs are a whole different animal. Keep using meaningless regular season games against scrub teams as evidence though...LOL

[BigBoss]

Prime example for why stats are overrated

[DMAVS41]

I watched every single Thunder game these playoffs and the majority of their games during the season. This is what I saw:

Durant was dominant during the regular season. Anyone who doesn't think he deserved the MVP is a complete moron.

Durant wasn't the same player in the playoffs. He looked exhausted and therefore transitioned into a more passive role. Playoff Durant wasn't nearly as good as regular season Durant.

Westbrook was flat out amazing these playoffs. He had some "Westbrook" moments of course, but overall he was the best player in the entire playoffs. Only James has a legitimate case against him, and considering the difference of competition, I think Westbrook comes out on top.

Durant still played well in the playoffs despite not being true to his MVP form, but Westbrook was better. This is not a slight on Durant, as Westbrook was better than everyone.

You also have to realize that defences plan their strategy around stopping Durant, and with a potato coach like Brooks who doesn't know how to adjust accordingly, Durant wasn't able to get very many open looks, easy switches or mismatches.

Westbrook on the other hand, was able to exploit mismatches and take advantage of teams who were too concerned with Durant.

Overall, Westbrook played better than Durant but that doesn't mean that Durant was bad, it just means that Westbrook was amazing. Brooks' overplaying of Durant during the regular season and playoffs contributed to Durant's passive play as he was exhausted for most of the post season. Not only did Durant lead the NBA in minutes played during the regular season and post season, but he plays hard minutes. I've never seen a superstar have to work so hard to make tough shots because his coach doesn't know how to draw up plays to get him easier baskets.

This man gets it.

Only thing I disagree on is that other teams structured their entire defense to stop Durant. While this is at times true, it's not like he saw an absurd amount of attention. He was often singled by smaller players the entirety of the playoffs...and the Spurs even yielded and switched by far their best defender onto Westbrook for games 5/6 of the series.

Not doubt the lack of offensive system and coaching hurt Durant in the playoffs, but he also simply has to be able to dominate teams when they single him like this.

[knicksman]

Yea....Durant/Thunder looked great last year without Westbrook in the playoffs....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

What you are doing is failing to realize that the playoffs are a whole different animal. Keep using meaningless regular season games against scrub teams as evidence though...LOL

yeah coz adjustment takes place after a few games. Werent they losing during the first few games of the season too without westbrook. Losing a player takes time to figure esp if youre losing a pg. ala nash/amare.

And they werent beating scrub teams tho w/o wb. They can beat any team. while they were losing against scrub teams w/ wb. It is what it is. The team was enjoying with wb out coz they have touches. They never want westbrook as a teammate just like most players dont like playing with the marburys or iverson. Theres a reason why wb was never projected top 5 and thats because he never impacts like his stats says.

[knicksman]

I watched every single Thunder game these playoffs and the majority of their games during the season. This is what I saw:

Durant was dominant during the regular season. Anyone who doesn't think he deserved the MVP is a complete moron.

Durant wasn't the same player in the playoffs. He looked exhausted and therefore transitioned into a more passive role. Playoff Durant wasn't nearly as good as regular season Durant.



except that durant wasnt the same since westbrook came back instead of just the playoffs. They never fit. In fact most of the role players dont fit with westbrook. Lamb, jackson, ibaka were playing well without westbrook..

[J Shuttlesworth]

Prime example for why stats are overrated
This goes beyond the stat sheet. A lot of people, including some OKC fans, who watched all their games feel that Westbrook had a bigger impact on the court, especially late in the game.

[SillyRabbit]

This man gets it.

Only thing I disagree on is that other teams structured their entire defense to stop Durant. While this is at times true, it's not like he saw an absurd amount of attention. He was often singled by smaller players the entirety of the playoffs...and the Spurs even yielded and switched by far their best defender onto Westbrook for games 5/6 of the series.

Not doubt the lack of offensive system and coaching hurt Durant in the playoffs, but he also simply has to be able to dominate teams when they single him like this.

Yes you're right, when the Spurs realized that Durant/Brooks weren't going to be able to exploit having Danny Green on Durant then they decided to put Leonard on Westbrook because he was destroying Parker/Mills.

Same thing happened in the Clippers series when Paul was put on Durant because he couldn't handle Westbrook, who was getting to the rim at will.

Westbrook has the ability to abuse smaller/weaker defenders while Durant doesn't. He just tried to shoot over them which wasn't good enough when his jumper wasn't falling.

I place the blame here on Brooks just as much as I place it on Durant however, because they could've done so many things to get Durant the ball in more efficient areas, or run screens to switch a different defender onto him.

Basically the TL;DR is that Westbrook's size and skillset allow him to overcome coaching deficiencies by Brooks, whereas Durant is hurt much more by poor coaching decisions. Blame also falls on Durant as he needed to step up and take advantage of mismatches or at least yell at Brooks to run some plays that would get him the ball in more efficient areas.

[DMAVS41]

Yes you're right, when the Spurs realized that Durant/Brooks weren't going to be able to exploit having Danny Green on Durant then they decided to put Leonard on Westbrook because he was destroying Parker/Mills.

Same thing happened in the Clippers series when Paul was put on Durant because he couldn't handle Westbrook, who was getting to the rim at will.

Westbrook has the ability to abuse smaller/weaker defenders while Durant doesn't. He just tried to shoot over them which wasn't good enough when his jumper wasn't falling.

I place the blame here on Brooks just as much as I place it on Durant however, because they could've done so many things to get Durant the ball in more efficient areas, or run screens to switch a different defender onto him.

Basically the TL;DR is that Westbrook's size and skillset allow him to overcome coaching deficiencies by Brooks, whereas Durant is hurt much more by poor coaching decisions. Blame also falls on Durant as he needed to step up and take advantage of mismatches or at least yell at Brooks to run some plays that would get him the ball in more efficient areas.


Agreed completely. I have been saying Brooks is the biggest problem with this team for a long long time.

I just have to hold Durant accountable as well. Even despite shit coaching...he's now been in the league 7 years and has a ton of playoff experience with all these same players. He should know how to get what he wants and lead this team.

But it seems like he still can't do it. He just gets pushed around a lot and then hides in the corner.

Durant has definitely regressed in the playoffs these last two years from his play in 11 and 12. He was a better player back then and while his playmaking has improved, his turnovers (often at the worst times) have increased as well. He also seems to attack the basket much less and settles for jumpers. Even good ones.

Old Durant was dunking on people (the Haywood dunk from the 11 playoffs still gives me nightmares)...now he just looks for space and settles for a jumper like you said.


If the Thunder didn't have a guy like Westbrook...who the hell is picking up the slack when Durant goes quiet for long stretches????? There are like a couple guys in the league capable of doing that...WB is probably the best one actually.

[SillyRabbit]

Agreed completely. I have been saying Brooks is the biggest problem with this team for a long long time.

I just have to hold Durant accountable as well. Even despite shit coaching...he's now been in the league 7 years and has a ton of playoff experience with all these same players. He should know how to get what he wants and lead this team.

But it seems like he still can't do it. He just gets pushed around a lot and then hides in the corner.

Durant has definitely regressed in the playoffs these last two years from his play in 11 and 12. He was a better player back then and while his playmaking has improved, his turnovers (often at the worst times) have increased as well. He also seems to attack the basket much less and settles for jumpers. Even good ones.

Old Durant was dunking on people (the Haywood dunk from the 11 playoffs still gives me nightmares)...now he just looks for space and settles for a jumper like you said.


If the Thunder didn't have a guy like Westbrook...who the hell is picking up the slack when Durant goes quiet for long stretches????? There are like a couple guys in the league capable of doing that...WB is probably the best one actually.

Yeah I myself was questioning why Durant wasn't driving to the basket more this post season. Especially after seeing how much success Westbrook was having doing it.

He seemed to get the ball knocked out of his hands a lot during his drives and maybe that discouraged him. Also the lack of calls in the playoffs probably got in his head and made him think that he'd be hacked and end up on the floor without getting a chance to go to the line.

Either way he could learn a lot from Westbrook about having an aggressive and competitive mentality. Part of me hopes that his poor play and decision making was due to being physically and mentally exhausted because he was definitely not the Durant we're used to seeing.

The old saying is "don't fall in love with the jumpshot" but for a player like Durant who had such an automatic jumper in the regular season you start to wonder if he got too comfortable with settling for a contested outside shot.

Either way it will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason for OKC. Will Westbrook become "wiser" as he said in his post-game press conference? Will Brooks be fired and replaced by an "X's and O's" guy who can run effective offensive plays and put together better rotations? Will Durant try to implement a post game? You have to imagine that Ibaka and Jackson will continue to improve and if Lamb and Adams actually get playing time next year they could become starters (Adams) and important scorers off the bench that OKC dearly needed.

[Dave3]

Westbrook played very well, but Durant also had very good games. People are way too quick to want to blame one or the other, but neither of them really played great, but they were both still VERY good. Durant missed a bunch of shots that he couldn't miss (even on purpose probably) in February, and Westbrook was also out of control at times. You can't really blame either of them though because the fact of the matter is, every single team loses eventually, with the exception of 1 out of the 16. Losing doesn't necessarily mean people failed, it just means that another team succeeded - it can't be championship or bust for 5 different teams if they're all gonna end up playing each other lol.

I do agree though with the OKC fans complaining about Brooks. The OKC offense was pretty much 90% iso, and I have a hard time believing Brooks kept bringing that up and drawing up plays just to get ignored. They have to be running some kind of offense, because talent won't get you anywhere by itself (ask 2008-2010 LeBron).

I won't sugarcoat it though, it's more than fair to say that Durant played slightly disappointing in this post season. There's a clear difference though between disappointing and failing, and he wasn't the latter. Westbrook did outplay him more often than I thought he would, but they got as far as they did without both of them playing the way they did.

People in here need to calm down though. They use every single loss (even half of a game) for proof that a player they don't like is overrated or anything else. Yeah it happens to LeBron more than anyone I've seen, but it's happening to other players too, including Durant, and it's not actually doing anything to change their perception, it's just making people look foolish.

[jrong]

And no...what makes Lebron/Wade work the most is their defense. WB plays Wade level defense....Durant is maybe like 10% as good as Lebron on defense when Lebron tries.

No, I explained this in the other thread. James and Wade's combined efficiency allows them to each be themselves, albeit Wade in a reduced role.

Wade scored 19 ppg on 14 FGA and 5 FTs this year. If he only shot 50% instead of 55%, that's 18 ppg. If he shot Westbrook/ Harden numbers, it's 16 - 17 ppg.

Those are shots he's not taking away from LeBron and his other teammates.

By the same token, LeBron scoring 27 ppg on 18 FGA and 8 FTs lets Wade still play like a still dominant wing when he has the ball, because he somewhat has it enough to be that player.

If LeBron was shooting 42% to get his 27 ppg, then Wade would average 14, and the Heat would lose a lot more and have lost for the year already.

[DMAVS41]

No, I explained this in the other thread. James and Wade's combined efficiency allows them to each be themselves, albeit Wade in a reduced role.

Wade scored 19 ppg on 14 FGA and 5 FTs this year. If he only shot 50% instead of 55%, that's 18 ppg. If he shot Westbrook/ Harden numbers, it's 16 - 17 ppg.

Those are shots he's not taking away from LeBron and his other teammates.

By the same token, LeBron scoring 27 ppg on 18 FGA and 8 FTs lets Wade still play like a still dominant wing when he has the ball, because he somewhat has it enough to be that player.

If LeBron was shooting 42% to get his 27 ppg, then Wade would average 14, and the Heat would lose a lot more and have lost for the year already.

I'm not discounting the efficiency completely, but it's not what makes them work. It's the defense.

Put it this way. Would you come to the same conclusion that Westbrook and Durant can't work if Durant played Lebron level defense in the playoffs?

I just can't imagine you would say the same stuff.

Also, the Heat get a lot of easy baskets off of their swarming defense. Which leads to part of that efficiency.

And honestly, WB/Durant have it so much easier. They now have Ibaka and Adams backing them up. Nobody on the Heat comes close to that...

[Jacks3]

lol these Wade stans. Mad because Westbrook is a far better player than Wade at this point. The Heat "work" in comparison because they play in a far weaker conference, have a much better supporting cast and coach, and have the greatest player in the world. It has nothing to do with Wade/LBJ being so much better as a duo. Delusional man. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

lol these Wade stans. Mad because Westbrook is a far better player than Wade at this point. The Heat "work" in comparison because they play in a far weaker conference, have a much better supporting cast and coach, and have the greatest player in the world. It has nothing to do with Wade/LBJ being so much better as a duo. Delusional man. :oldlol:

I was just going to post this.

Lets not ignore the fact that the Thunder cakewalk to the finals in the East.

I disagree about the supporting cast though. I think Lebron makes those guys look a lot better than they would look with Durant.

I could just see Durant fans bitching about Rashard Lewis and Cole and Chalmers and Battier....and even Wade.

[turnaroundJ]

I always thought that Durant/Westbrook was a great combo. They both take a lot of pressure off from each other. Westbrook is the ever-aggressive penetration bomb (lol) while Durant can pick his spots and make his unguardable offensive moves efficiently, after all he's had 50% FG seasons (can't get free facing TA or CP3 though :lol )

What I don't get is why Durant wants to take a more Lebron/Wade approach - handling the ball and trying to be more of a ball-dominant point forward type. Was it for stats? Maybe he thinks that this is the way to "dominate" games?

He needs to follow Kobe/Melo/MJ instead of Bran. What I mean is utilizing the triple threat, jab step more and using just 1 or 2 dribble moves instead of dribbling around while the shotclock runs hero ball style. Westbrook gets away with this because no one on the court can keep up with him and he has much better handles.

Also, he needs to actually hustle hard on defense and get a better post game. Mentally, he needs to stop deferring too much and stop relying on whistles. If not, he might never reach Bran's level.

I have to say I agree with some of the other posters here. Russ was THE best player in the playoffs so far, a bit above Bran. This could change after a good finals though.

[Kingwillball]

I was just going to post this.

Lets not ignore the fact that the Thunder cakewalk to the finals in the East.

I disagree about the supporting cast though. I think Lebron makes those guys look a lot better than they would look with Durant.

I could just see Durant fans bitching about Rashard Lewis and Cole and Chalmers and Battier....and even Wade.


Lets not Ignore Miami is better than OKC as well.. so if they were in East would lose IN ECF(if they made it)

[Natureland]

Lets not Ignore Miami is better than OKC as well.. so if they were in East would lose IN ECF(if they made it)
Miami doesn't exist in the East in his scenario. At least, that's how I took it. And LOL @ "if they made it" :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Lets not Ignore Miami is better than OKC as well.. so if they were in East would lose IN ECF(if they made it)

What?

The point is that the Heat don't face any real competition in the East.

There is no team half as good as the Thunder or Spurs in the East.

It's a hypothetical talking about if the Thunder played in the East instead of the Heat...

Really don't get that????

The point is sound....the Heat "work" in large part because they play in such an easier conference. The Heat already lost to the Mavs in 11...and then squeaked by the Spurs last year by sheer "luck" as Lebron said.

We are to think that if they had to play these types of teams more consistently that they would "work" just as well as they do against scrub teams in the East?

Come on now...

[Kingwillball]

What?

The point is that the Heat don't face any real competition in the East.

There is no team half as good as the Thunder or Spurs in the East.

It's a hypothetical talking about if the Thunder played in the East instead of the Heat...

Really don't get that????

The point is sound....the Heat "work" in large part because they play in such an easier conference. The Heat already lost to the Mavs in 11...and then squeaked by the Spurs last year by sheer "luck" as Lebron said.

We are to think that if they had to play these types of teams more consistently that they would "work" just as well as they do against scrub teams in the East?

Come on now...

Watching Playoffs this year nobody in West would have a chance against Miami except SA and I don't think they will win. Lebron was bad half a series and Heat still won last year. Lebron plays like he has all Playoffs long(minus BS 7 point game) and Won't come down to a last sec Allen 3 to save series. Also Wade been much better this year in Playoffs with Health better and wildcard is Bosh who can play a lot better than last year.

[SillyRabbit]

Watching Playoffs this year nobody in West would have a chance against Miami except SA and I don't think they will win. Lebron was bad half a series and Heat still won last year. Lebron plays like he has all Playoffs long(minus BS 7 point game) and Won't come down to a last sec Allen 3 to save series. Also Wade been much better this year in Playoffs with Health better and wildcard is Bosh who can play a lot better than last year.

You aren't understanding what he's saying.

He's saying that if the Thunder were in the East, and the Heat were in the West, there's no question that OKC would've been in the Finals four straight years instead of the Heat.

It's quite unlikely the Heat make it out of the West four straight years.

[DMAVS41]

Watching Playoffs this year nobody in West would have a chance against Miami except SA and I don't think they will win. Lebron was bad half a series and Heat still won last year. Lebron plays like he has all Playoffs long(minus BS 7 point game) and Won't come down to a last sec Allen 3 to save series.

That may or may not be true....

But that isn't the point. The point is that the Thunder cakewalk to the finals this year in the East....

Nobody is taking anything away from the Heat, but we also have to mention the huge disparity in competition between the two conferences.

the Thunder had to beat Grizzlies, Clippers, and then Spurs...all 3 of those teams are easily better than the best team the Heat faced in the East to get to the finals.

We'll see what happens in the finals this year...I like the Heat as well, but still have to see. If they lose...gonna make that West look even stronger than we already know it is.

[305Baller]

If the sky were red my pee would be green. Who gives a shit?

[DMAVS41]

You aren't understanding what he's saying.

He's saying that if the Thunder were in the East, and the Heat were in the West, there's no question that OKC would've been in the Finals four straight years instead of the Heat.

It's quite unlikely the Heat make it out of the West four straight years.

I wouldn't say 4 straight years at all.

They could have lost in 11 and would have for sure lost last year with Westbrook hurt.

But this year....not even a chance they lose.

[DaSeba5]

You're most likely right. The East sucks and the competition is stronger in the West. But I don't concern myself with hypotheticals. The fact is Miami has made 4 straight Finals, which is a tough thing to do no matter what.

As for the thread, Durant is the best player on that team, but he needs to step up as the leader. It really does feel like Westbrook's team.

[305Baller]

You aren't understanding what he's saying.

He's saying that if the Thunder were in the East, and the Heat were in the West, there's no question that OKC would've been in the Finals four straight years instead of the Heat.

It's quite unlikely the Heat make it out of the West four straight years.

Theres plenty of question. The Thunder could have lost to the Nets this year or Pacers last year.

[DaSeba5]

lol these Wade stans. Mad because Westbrook is a far better player than Wade at this point. The Heat "work" in comparison because they play in a far weaker conference, have a much better supporting cast and coach, and have the greatest player in the world. It has nothing to do with Wade/LBJ being so much better as a duo. Delusional man. :oldlol:

You also forgot to mention that Wade knows how his game and takes high quality shots. He doesn't force the issue like Westbrook. You don't see Wade shooting wild 3s in crunch time. Of course WB is better at 25 compared to a 32 year old with more mileage, but Wade is better as a team player. LeBron and Wade work so well because they are efficient and are some of the best 2 way players in the league. They don't fight over the ball. Wade knows his role as the 2nd best player on the team. Durant and Westbrook still struggle with this. Durant barely touched the ball in crunch time in game 6.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Durant was the one who carried the Thunder during the first three quarters, but he somehow disappeared in the 4th when his team needed him the most.

[GimmeThat]

you can be the best player for your team if you decide to take all the shots, AND make them when you need to.

But the second you stop dropping the buckets and you lose, just don't expect others to put you as the second best player because of your glory moments. When the next player starts delivering results, where you are in terms of his winning formula, becomes where you stand.

it's why critics say Durant/Westbrook can't co-exist.


when you combined their production together, including FG%, if it has plateaued, then yes, it's why they can't co-exist and win a championship. If Westbrooks/Durants game could adjust and generate a higher FG%. I'm sure it would have happened, or someone is to be blamed here.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yeah i agree, but 1/21:facepalm

Pretty sure he was 0/14 against memphis too...
Is there a way to find the free throw attempts he had? I could swear he wasn't scoreless in most OT games

[ILLsmak]

What playoffs were you watching?

If Durant had the ball much more than he currently did...the Thunder wouldn't even have gotten out of the first round.

You want Durant with the ball in his hands more? The dude was a walking turnover against single coverage all playoffs. It was pathetic.



The issue is they see Westbrook breaking down the D or going coast to coast and finishing, then they see KD get an inbound and go down and do the same thing. His failure rate is much higher than Westbrook in those instances.

However, if by "ball in his hands" you mean touches where he can have his feet set, survey the D, and drive or shoot, then yes he absolutely needs more touches. Dude is not a point forward. He's a walking turnover because of bad touches.

If you give someone the ball, no matter what their talent level is, in a position where they are not comfortable or at a disadvantage, you ****ed up. Just because Westbrook has some of the most ridiculous athleticism and driving ability... probably that I've ever seen... doesn't mean he's more able to get you 30 than KD.

If Durant needs to be spoonfed and Westbrook can score at will (which is in some cases true) then Westbrook needs to spoonfeed Durant and pick his spots. That's why being a PG is one of the hardest positions in the NBA. When you have KD on your team, you have to make sure he gets every shot he wants.

It's almost offensive the way people keep putting it on Durant or acting like he needs to get better at dribble iso touches when he is so good at scoring in other ways. KD is getting 30 regardless. He got 32 in the regular season. lol. I fully believe a properly utilized KD could get close to 35 efficiently... and win.

KD is not LeBron. He's not Westbrook. He's a different talent. Nobody in the NBA can stick Durant IF he gets the ball where he wants it. Giving it to him where he has to put the ball on the floor from 35 feet is stupid. Inbounding the ball to him is stupid. You can say he's 'limited', but he excels so much at the other parts that it doesn't matter.

-Smak

[dunksby]

Durant carried this team during regular season without much help, I know he was not himself in the post-season, fatigue is a big part of his lower than expected performance. Still he put up nice numbers and scored more than anyone in the clutch this playoffs so I guess I can be hopeful of the future.

[Dresta]

lol these Wade stans. Mad because Westbrook is a far better player than Wade at this point. The Heat "work" in comparison because they play in a far weaker conference, have a much better supporting cast and coach, and have the greatest player in the world. It has nothing to do with Wade/LBJ being so much better as a duo. Delusional man. :oldlol:

'far better' is obviously incorrect by anyone's reckoning. I personally take the guy who didn't shoot 41% in the conference finals, while using the most possessions on his team, and also shooting 1-21 in OT's throughout the playoffs, on the way to getting punked by a team far older, and far less athletic than him. THAT is an underwhelming performance. Meanwhile, Wade has just put up 20/4/5/2 on 62 TS% against the best defensive team in the league, and is the 2nd biggest reason why Miami is in the NBA finals for the 4th straight year (Bron's numbers were better, but not by much as well, Miami just know how to play as a team and get great shots, unlike OKC). Wade is also the superior defender by some distance.

One of these two players is an elite 2nd option, the other is an inefficient 2nd option who thinks he's his team's number 1 option. I would like to see Wade with Durant as well - those guys would fit really well, certainly better than the Durant/Westbrook failure of a combination.

[jrong]

I'm not discounting the efficiency completely, but it's not what makes them work. It's the defense.

Put it this way. Would you come to the same conclusion that Westbrook and Durant can't work if Durant played Lebron level defense in the playoffs?

I just can't imagine you would say the same stuff.

Also, the Heat get a lot of easy baskets off of their swarming defense. Which leads to part of that efficiency.

And honestly, WB/Durant have it so much easier. They now have Ibaka and Adams backing them up. Nobody on the Heat comes close to that...

Yes, I would. And "LeBron level defense in the playoffs" falls within a huge range." There's LeBron dominant game 3 ECFs defender, or Games 1 -2, when he may have been the worst out of the Heat's starting 5. In general, I believe defense is the most overrated part of James's game. That's not to say he's not a very good defender, but he has significant weaknesses along with his significant strengths. (As I've been saying since it happened 80 times in the 2011 Finals, you can blow by him like he's a statue, if you make your move right off the catch.)

But, what the difference here really comes down to is how many times you convert offensive possessions into successful results vs. how many times you come away empty. And this is where Westbrook falls fall short of the other 3.

I'll give you a couple examples. Wade had one really bad shooting game against the Pacers, 4 - 12. If that's Westbrook, that ends up being an 8/24 game. LeBron went 2/11 in his 5-foul Game 5. Obviously, the fouls limited his shot totals, but I guarantee you if James shot more and kept missing, he would have concentrated on setting up teammates.

It's the difference between being a high IQ player and a low IQ player. The other 3 are. Westbrook isn't. I don't understand how some players-- Westbrook, Harden, Melo-- don't get it after seeing the end results year after year, but I guess it's the imperviousness of ego.

I do have a little trouble fathoming fans that are low IQ in certain areas and refuse to be educated (not directed personally). Again and again, you see these high volume, low efficiency players chuck their way through seasons and shoot their team out of game after game. And yet you're enamored with it because their final points total looks impressive.

It's like some people don't get that basketball does not have unlimited possessions. So when you make a play, that's a play that nobody else on your team is making or has the opportunity to make. So if you're making a lot of plays, you better be converting them at a high rate. Because for those possessions, the team is counting on you. And the more possessions you fail to convert, the less the chance your team has of winning. (And if there's somebody else who's better at making plays than you, then you shouldn't make be making more plays than them.)

That's the difference between the truly elite superstars and the pretenders. True superstars make something good happen at a very high clip when they have the ball. And it's of the main reasons they win.

[aburre21]

That may or may not be true....

But that isn't the point. The point is that the Thunder cakewalk to the finals this year in the East....

Nobody is taking anything away from the Heat, but we also have to mention the huge disparity in competition between the two conferences.

the Thunder had to beat Grizzlies, Clippers, and then Spurs...all 3 of those teams are easily better than the best team the Heat faced in the East to get to the finals.

We'll see what happens in the finals this year...I like the Heat as well, but still have to see. If they lose...gonna make that West look even stronger than we already know it is.


I'm not so sure the Thunder would cake walk to the finals. Indy would give them problems because of their defense

[aburre21]

You also forgot to mention that Wade knows how his game and takes high quality shots. He doesn't force the issue like Westbrook. You don't see Wade shooting wild 3s in crunch time. Of course WB is better at 25 compared to a 32 year old with more mileage, but Wade is better as a team player. LeBron and Wade work so well because they are efficient and are some of the best 2 way players in the league. They don't fight over the ball. Wade knows his role as the 2nd best player on the team. Durant and Westbrook still struggle with this. Durant barely touched the ball in crunch time in game 6.
nah, I wouldn't say that. Thunder fans would have a problem with Wade as well because LeBron doesn't take many shots either. Shit, if you asked me, I'd say Wade was far more aggressive than LeBron in looking for his shot. The criticism of the Thunder is that Durant doesn't get enough touches/shots....but LeBron took less shots than Durant this post season. He's just efficient enough to convert at a high rate

[SOD 21]

These are just a few of the problems with Oklahoma City that need to be addressed in the off-season:

1. KD - He must get stronger to prevent from being stripped so easily and failing to exploit mismatches in the post against smaller defenders. Just as an example, his five turnovers in the third quarter of Game Six against San Antonio was a killer and his failure to exploit Danny Green, Tony Allen or Chris Paul on him was inexcusable.

2. RW - He is arguably the second most physically gifted player, only behind LeBron James, in the entire league with his combination of strength, power and explosiveness. But regardless of his physical talents and awe-inspiring play, at times, he must get smarter and raise his basketball IQ.

3. Sam Presti - He didn't do a good enough job this last season of giving this team enough options off the bench and it was exploited during the playoffs. This problem was magnified by the complete disappearance of Thabo that caused Brooks to insert Reggie Jackson into the starting lineup, which left their bench completely void of any scorers. Too many players that were woefully too young like Jeremy Lamb and Perry Jones or old like Fisher, Butler.

He must sign a free agent or generator trade that brings in a quality shooting guard that provides both offense and defense. Also with Reggie Jackson desiring to move into the starting lineup, they probably need to get an immediate backup point guard as well. They may also want to consider packaging their two first-round draft picks to move up in the draft for a more impactful player.

Oklahoma City still needs some type of post scoring threat and also better cure three-point shooters.

4. Brooks - During the Memphis series I really wanted to see him fired for his inability to install an efficient offense with weak side cuts, ball movement and better spacing. It seems impossible to me that this team is at the same place today as they were three and four years ago, and that they haven't improved in this regard. This falls at the feet of Scott Brooks.

However, he did make it to the conference finals for the third time in four years and just received strong endorsements from Russell Westbrook and KD just yesterday. Sam Presti and Scott Brooks need to bring in an offense of minded coach, even if it's only an assistant, the implements a motion offense. Phil Jackson wasn't an expert on the triangle offense but he was smart enough to implement Tex Winters triangle offense.

Oklahoma City was easily the worst passing team in the first round of the playoffs and also San Antonio had 500 more passes in the six-game series with their ability to move the ball, just to illustrate some of their struggles. Improved passing would create easier opportunities for everyone on the team and make them more dangerous and also reduce the number of turnovers.

[Dresta]

nah, I wouldn't say that. Thunder fans would have a problem with Wade as well because LeBron doesn't take many shots either. Shit, if you asked me, I'd say Wade was far more aggressive than LeBron in looking for his shot. The criticism of the Thunder is that Durant doesn't get enough touches/shots....but LeBron took less shots than Durant this post season. He's just efficient enough to convert at a high rate
That's because Miami play high percentage team basketball (efficient, unselfish, wins games), whereas OKC play Westbrook/Durant Iso ball (inefficient, statpadding, loses games).

[DMAVS41]

Yes, I would. And "LeBron level defense in the playoffs" falls within a huge range." There's LeBron dominant game 3 ECFs defender, or Games 1 -2, when he may have been the worst out of the Heat's starting 5. In general, I believe defense is the most overrated part of James's game. That's not to say he's not a very good defender, but he has significant weaknesses along with his significant strengths. (As I've been saying since it happened 80 times in the 2011 Finals, you can blow by him like he's a statue, if you make your move right off the catch.)

But, what the difference here really comes down to is how many times you convert offensive possessions into successful results vs. how many times you come away empty. And this is where Westbrook falls fall short of the other 3.

I'll give you a couple examples. Wade had one really bad shooting game against the Pacers, 4 - 12. If that's Westbrook, that ends up being an 8/24 game. LeBron went 2/11 in his 5-foul Game 5. Obviously, the fouls limited his shot totals, but I guarantee you if James shot more and kept missing, he would have concentrated on setting up teammates.

It's the difference between being a high IQ player and a low IQ player. The other 3 are. Westbrook isn't. I don't understand how some players-- Westbrook, Harden, Melo-- don't get it after seeing the end results year after year, but I guess it's the imperviousness of ego.

I do have a little trouble fathoming fans that are low IQ in certain areas and refuse to be educated (not directed personally). Again and again, you see these high volume, low efficiency players chuck their way through seasons and shoot their team out of game after game. And yet you're enamored with it because their final points total looks impressive.

It's like some people don't get that basketball does not have unlimited possessions. So when you make a play, that's a play that nobody else on your team is making or has the opportunity to make. So if you're making a lot of plays, you better be converting them at a high rate. Because for those possessions, the team is counting on you. And the more possessions you fail to convert, the less the chance your team has of winning. (And if there's somebody else who's better at making plays than you, then you shouldn't make be making more plays than them.)

That's the difference between the truly elite superstars and the pretenders. True superstars make something good happen at a very high clip when they have the ball. And it's of the main reasons they win.


I know it's not directed at me because I'm one of the biggest efficiency guys on here.

Again, I'm not discounting that, but what you are doing is ignoring the level of defense Wade/Lebron are capable of when they really need to ramp it up.

WB/Durant simply don't do that...well, Westbrook does, but Durant is not capable of playing that kind of defense that Lebron does. Not man to man and not team...

The Heat also, especially Wade/Lebron, get easy baskets off this action.

The Heat force the 3rd most turnovers in the playoffs...the Thunder forced the 14th most (out of 16)...

When I talk about Lebron defense...I'm talking about the stretches in which he turns it on, as does Wade, and the Heat just swarm and dominate teams. This is a huge part of what makes Wade/Lebron work as a pair and not only overwhelms the opponents for stretches, but it directly plays into easy baskets that increase that ever so important efficiency you speak of.

Also, a big reason why WB's efficiency is what it is...or I should say his shot attempts are what they are...is because Presti ****ed up and didn't get a playable sg. Last night they played Fisher 33 minutes!!!!! That is absurd.

Durant gets pushed off his spots, and then the floor is filled with enough potent offensive options so WB is forced to create something out of nothing...and while he's probably the best guy in the league at that...it's tough to be consistently efficient in situations like that in the playoffs.

The Thunder are not far off like you claim at all....nor is there any evidence that it just "can't" work.

Reggie, Lamb, Adams, and Jones will all be noticeably better players by the playoffs of next year. I have to assume that the Thunder will add at least 1 solid rotation player (I'm hoping it's Meeks for their sakes because he's perfect)...and they could also package Perkins and both picks for Asik or maybe even a guy like Sanders. Or, if they wanted to keep the picks and just let Perkins expire. They could sign a guy like Meeks and also go after Ed Davis...wouldn't mind that at all.

You put Meeks and Davis on this team if healthy with the improvement of all the young players and they'll be right there to win it all again.

There is no real shame in losing to the Spurs. The Heat basically did last year.

In 11 the Thunder/Heat lost to the same team.
In 12 the Thunder made the Finals and simply lost to a better team with the best player in the game
In 13 they improved across the board and then WB got hurt
In 14 they had Ibaka get hurt and then lost a tight series in 6 to arguably the best team

People, not saying you, are acting like this team just has no chance....and that is silly. They've had a couple bad breaks and just lost to better players in 11 with Dirk and 12 with Lebron.

But they aren't far off and adding a real sg like Meeks would work wonders for this team.

[La Frescobaldi]

Westbrook showed up in big moments. Where was Durant? Cryimg because he didn't get a pass.
No, Westbrook failed in the big moments.

Memphis Game 2: 0-2
Memphis Game 3: 0-7, 1-3 from the line
Memphis Game 4: 0-3
Memphis Game 5: 0-2
Spurs Game 6: 1-7, 2-2 from the line

He's a great individual player, and his assists look okay. But he's often a pure misery as a point guard. The 1 should be getting the ball in the hands of his teams' greatest scoring threat, not dribbling and driving and shooting doubled 3s while the SF is being single defended.

Durant SHOULD be irate, he WASN'T getting the ball. He's not the point guard, he's the end result, the finisher of plays.
Not only that, but what was RW doing with all that usage rate when he had not only Kevin Durant on the floor, but also one of the all-time greatest clutch shooters in NBA history namely Derek Fisher?
Instead they stood around watching in the clutch situations, while Westbrook got double and triple teamed and took the shot anyhow.

Pops knew Westbrook's psychology... just like reading a magazine. Strategy...... single up Durant because he's not going to get the ball, stay within 2 paces of Fisher, and just flood Westbrook because he'll be hogging it in the clutch according to his mentality. Which actually has been true from Day 1.

[DMAVS41]

No, Westbrook failed in the big moments.

Memphis Game 2: 0-2
Memphis Game 3: 0-7, 1-3 from the line
Memphis Game 4: 0-3
Memphis Game 5: 0-2
Spurs Game 6: 1-7, 2-2 from the line

He's a great individual player, and his assists look okay. But he's often a pure misery as a point guard. The 1 should be getting the ball in the hands of his teams' greatest scoring threat, not dribbling and driving and shooting doubled 3s while the SF is being single defended.

Durant SHOULD be irate, he WASN'T getting the ball. He's not the point guard, he's the end result, the finisher of plays.
Not only that, but what was RW doing with all that usage rate when he had not only Kevin Durant on the floor, but also one of the all-time greatest clutch shooters in NBA history namely Derek Fisher?
Instead they stood around watching in the clutch situations, while Westbrook got double and triple teamed and took the shot anyhow.

Pops knew Westbrook's psychology... just like reading a magazine. Strategy...... single up Durant because he's not going to get the ball, stay within 2 paces of Fisher, and just flood Westbrook because he'll be hogging it in the clutch according to his mentality. Which actually has been true from Day 1.


Not only was Durant getting pushed off of his spots all playoffs, but he wasn't dominating the single coverage either.

WB was terrible in overtime games in the playoffs, but it didn't hurt them until game 6 against the Spurs honestly.

And Durant was even worse. He missed a wide open 5 footer and a wide open 3 that Westbrook "served" up on a platter for him.

Durant deserves a lot of blame as well.

If you can't dominate Danny Green single coverage...you don't deserve to win.

[aburre21]

That's because Miami play high percentage team basketball (efficient, unselfish, wins games), whereas OKC play Westbrook/Durant Iso ball (inefficient, statpadding, loses games).


I'm just saying that with the Heat, Durant would get even less shots...so people complaining about Westbrook taking opportunities away from him will have to deal with the same thing in Miami

[The-Legend-24]

Not even looking at the stats, but I felt Westbrook had the most impact.

[nathanjizzle]

this thread proves that the eye test>stats.

derrick rose > dirk nowitzki in every game they played against eachother.

[DMAVS41]

this thread proves that the eye test>stats.

derrick rose > dirk nowitzki in every game they played against eachother.

Why?

Why do you still act like Dirk vs Rose is relevant at all to anything?

Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rose....

Deal with it.

[nathanjizzle]

Why?

Why do you still act like Dirk vs Rose is relevant at all to anything?

Dirk >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rose....

Deal with it.

thats a joke. go watch some bulls vs mavs games :lol especially rose preseason rookie year against dirk. :lol

what a joke, monta ellis >>>>>:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

thats a joke. go watch some bulls vs mavs games :lol especially rose preseason rookie year against dirk. :lol

what a joke, monta ellis >>>>>:oldlol:

Rose preseason rookie year?????????? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

If someone asked me if I'd rather have Ellis at his salary or Rose (even when healthy) at his salary on the Mavs...I'd take Ellis without blinking.

Sorry...

[atljonesbro]

Basically on this forum you have a good eye test if you're an aggressive player and scream after you dunk.

[nathanjizzle]

Rose preseason rookie year?????????? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

If someone asked me if I'd rather have Ellis at his salary or Rose (even when healthy) at his salary on the Mavs...I'd take Ellis without blinking.

Sorry...

ohyea you def proved a point, what a idiotic thing to say. anyteam in the nba that had the money to would pay 18 mill for a healthy rose. i recall the mavs playing better in the PO when dirk was out of the game this year. :lol

[DMAVS41]

ohyea you def proved a point. i recall the mavs playing better in the PO when dirk was out of the game this year. :lol

They did at times....absolutely.

Old 16th year Dirk having an entire defense focus mostly on stopping him is not going to be able to carry teams offensively like he used to.

Lets see how Rose is doing in year 16....

[nathanjizzle]

They did at times....absolutely.

Old 16th year Dirk having an entire defense focus mostly on stopping him is not going to be able to carry teams offensively like he used to.

Lets see how Rose is doing in year 16....

dont delude yourself, no one was focused on dirk.

[DMAVS41]

dont delude yourself, no one was focused on dirk.

yes...they weren't focused on him.

that's why the Spurs gave up wide open jumpers to Calderon, Harris, and Ellis all series...and didn't even acknowledge Marion for the most part when he was on the court.

Don't delude yourself dude...even old Dirk...coming off knee surgery is better than Rose ever was. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Rose, at his peak, against the 1 good team he faced in the playoffs;

23/4/7 44% TS with 4 turnovers per game and epic chokes in the 4th qtrs both from the field and from the ft line

Dirk, in year 16 after knee surgery, against arguably the best team in the league;

19/8/2 48% TS with 2 turnovers

ROFL....