[robert_shaww]

Rings in Europe, rings in South America, 3 championship rings in the NBA, olimpic gold medal winning against USA, all star couple times, NEVER PLAYED FOR HIS NUMBERS OR SCOREBOARD, when healthy his team is nearly every single year in the west finals or the finals since 2003 (and spurs lost in 1st round when he was injured).

Always +50 wins in his carrer, always in the playoffs, amazing per36, clutch, good in every single aspect of the game, smart, fans love him, popovich says he is the greatest competitor ever....could have 2 or 3 more rings easily...very close of winning 5 or 6 instead of 3.

was the best player of his team in the 2005 nba finals against one of the best defensive teams ever...still winning and playing well at 37 against younger teams.


considering his complete carrer, i think he is one of the 50 greatest basketball players ever....and if he wins another ring this year, maybe top 40.

[stalkerforlife]

Yes.

[Carbine]

I'll say this - I wouldn't take 50 players over him on my team.

Accolade wise he's probably not up there (only two All-NBA third team selections) or per game stats (15/4/4 career averages doesn't scream top 50) but he has sacrificed those things for the good of the team.

He never complains about shots. Never complains about playing time. Just competes his ass off. Does what is asked of him to help the team win.

[andremiller07]

Yes it goes beyond stats, he impacts the game like very few have in the last 20 years. Dudes a freak of nature and does not have to put up big numbers to win you a game.

Manu is the perfect example of why stats don't mean shit.

[Draz]

Yes.

[atljonesbro]

He's clearly not better than Dominique Wilkins so not at lol. Lol at all the hipsters saying he is.

[jzek]

Hall of Famer too

[jzek]

He's clearly not better than Dominique Wilkins so not at lol. Lol at all the hipsters saying he is.

Have you looked at Manu's and nique's accomplishments? Wilkins may have scored more points but Manu fills up the career achievements list.

[T_L_P]

In terms of playing his role, making the right decisions, and exceeding expectations? Yes.

But there are probably fifty players who I'd rather choose to build a franchise around. Don't forget they guy will probably retire playing 13 or so seasons, and a few of them really weren't that good. The other question is can he play big minutes?

[Solid Snake]

Yes it goes beyond stats, he impacts the game like very few have in the last 20 years. Dudes a freak of nature and does not have to put up big numbers to win you a game.

Manu is the perfect example of why stats don't mean shit.


Don't exaggerate. Say "stats aren't everything," or "stats don't tell the whole story." Don't say "it doesn't mean shit" as if stats have absolutely ZERO VALUE to the game, when in fact, stats is a quantifiable MEASUREMENT of precisely the impact you had on the game.

[west_tip]

No and I say that as a big, big fan of his.

The reasons I say no are:
a) very injury prone (missed lots of basketball games over the past decade but the Spurs are so deep that they have not been unduly affected)
b) very streaky/inconsistent. He has had many clutch moments in his career but equally he has ****ed up in a fair few games as well. He could have iced game 6 of the Finals last year, in fact he had a bad series across the board and he cost the Spurs a series win v the Mavs in 2006 with a very silly foul on Dirk in game 7.
c) His numbers aren't awe inspiring.

He has been excellent in his 3rd option/6th man role on a team with the GOAT PF and a top 5 PG but I'm not sure that translates to top 50 all time.

[tanner892]

I love Manu and any Spurs fan knows its a love hate relationship with this guy, probably couldn't ask for a better 6th man on the Spurs all these years and he is doing some great things right now at his age.


But he is not one of the 50 greatest to ever play.

[MavsSuperFan]

He's clearly not better than Dominique Wilkins so not at lol. Lol at all the hipsters saying he is.
nique belongs in the top 50 too. They need to drop some of the old timers that accumulated stats, awards and rings in weak eras like, mikan, cousy, etc.

If the list is based on talent they dont belong.

[MavsSuperFan]

the top 50 list is not really a 50 best players ever list. It includes guys like mikan and cousy.

Its more of a top 50 most accomplished players list.

I mean lets be honest would mikan be better than splitter?

[SexSymbol]

Don't exaggerate. Say "stats aren't everything," or "stats don't tell the whole story." Don't say "it doesn't mean shit" as if stats have absolutely ZERO VALUE to the game, when in fact, stats is a quantifiable MEASUREMENT of precisely the impact you had on the game.
Stats in fact are shit, and have no value to the game.

[atljonesbro]

Stats in fact are shit, and have no value to the game.
Something a typical Kobe stan would say. Stats absolutely matter. Ever wonder why all the greats good stats? 20 ppg = 5 ppg in your eyes?

People who devalue stats are the worst. They think it makes them look so smart pretending they're seeing something we aren't but in actuality they don't have any to back their case or they're just looking for a lazy argument.

[Jacks3]

Too bad Kobe has amazing numbers.

[dreamwarrior]

He's a winner. If I want to win I want him on my team

[Swaggin916]

Not even close. Wouldn't crack top 100. But top 150 yea probably.

[Bosnian Sajo]

I was gonna compare this situation to Fisher and Horry since they too were huge role players, but Manu is on a different level. Manu takes the ball right at 6'11 Kevin Durant, not worried about his length or height late in the game and scores with ease. I wanna say you can't rate him top 50 because he doesn't have the awards and stats these other players have, but he is so ****ing good.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I think he needs a FMVP to get there, good chance he gets one since it will be a toss up between him, Duncan and Parker.

[bizil]

For sure an HOFer no question. For sure at one time one of the top 5 SG's on the planet. And arguably from a TOTAL PACKAGE standpoint, one of the top 10 SG's of all time peak wise. I mean other than the guys like MJ, Kobe, Wade, West, Drexler, and T-Mac, who was a more complete a player at the SG spot? He could legit play and defend PG, SG, and SF. But with all that said, I can't put Manu in the top 50 players of all time. I think he's one of the FEW TRUE second or third option guys u could say could thrive as an alpha dog on another team. He did what it took to win and was willing to come off the bench often or blend in with his teammates for the greater good. The way he wills team to victory through scoring, passing, and defense indicates he could have thrived as a dominant alpha dog SG. The only negative I can say is Manu was injury prone. And could have hampered that alpha dog ability if he needed on another team depending on the timeframe.

[Bob Dole]

Not even close. Wouldn't crack top 100. But top 150 yea probably.

So much this. Stop overrating him. Ray allen and Pau Gasol arent top 50 players of all time, let alone Manu.

[Marchesk]

He's not better than Sidney Moncrief, and Moncrief isn't top 50.

[Marchesk]

the top 50 list is not really a 50 best players ever list. It includes guys like mikan and cousy.

Its more of a top 50 most accomplished players list.

I mean lets be honest would mikan be better than splitter?

It's a top 50 list of accomplished players. You don't penalize guys for playing in a different era. You rank them on what they did. And there's no way to know how good Mikan would be if he grew up in this era, but I'm guessing it's a bit better than Splitter.

[fatboy11]

Have you looked at Manu's and nique's accomplishments? Wilkins may have scored more points but Manu fills up the career achievements list.

'Nique never had a team like the Spurs have had for over a decade. Never played with a big like Duncan. Makes a lot of difference, no?

Also, "Manu fills up the career achievements list?" Meaning what, exactly? Manu is a two-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA 3rd team pick and Sixth Man of the Year. Wilkins was a 9-time All-Star, 4-time All-NBA 2nd team pick, two-time All-NBA 3rd team pick and once made the All-NBA 1st team. Also made the All-Rookie 1st team out of college compared to Manu's All-Rookie 2nd team selection as a older rookie.

Manu has more rings through playing on much, much, MUCH better teams.

[Oly BC]

Stats in fact are shit, and have no value to the game.
"Top 50" is also a stat of sorts and it means even less than actual stats.

Manu Ginobili just oozes class with his passing, his decision-making, his whole presence. He would be a great player in any team.
You don't need the top 5 players to make the best team. You need 5 players that together are the best team. And Ginobili -others as well of course- could be one of those 5.

[Oly BC]

Something a typical Kobe stan would say. Stats absolutely matter. Ever wonder why all the greats good stats? 20 ppg = 5 ppg in your eyes?

People who devalue stats are the worst. They think it makes them look so smart pretending they're seeing something we aren't but in actuality they don't have any to back their case or they're just looking for a lazy argument.
Stats are quite imperfect, they don't tell you what shots did someone make, what the defence did to prevent those shots, a good pass that leads to an easy assist goes unmentioned and so on.

How we record stats will definitely improve, until then eyes>stats.

[Doctor Rivers]

[hawkfan]

Debateable.

He's only getting $7 million this season. He took a massive paycut from where he is worth 12-13 million. MG and TD took huge paycuts and now it is paying off for them making the Finals again.

[robert_shaww]

Debateable.

He's only getting $7 million this season. He took a massive paycut from where he is worth 12-13 million. MG and TD took huge paycuts and now it is paying off for them making the Finals again.

for me this back to back finals runs in 2013 and 2014 are more impressive than a ring. 37 and 38 years old...they are probably losing against miami, but doesnt matter.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

no question

[Rooster]

Not even close:facepalm

James Worthy is not a top 50 player

And Ginobli is not better than him

Though I would love these type of players on my team

[deja vu]

No way. Amazing player but he's not even top 100 all time.

[MavsSuperFan]

It's a top 50 list of accomplished players. You don't penalize guys for playing in a different era. You rank them on what they did. And there's no way to know how good Mikan would be if he grew up in this era, but I'm guessing it's a bit better than Splitter.

It's a top 50 list of accomplished players.

i said that. Its not a 50 best players ever. its the 50 most accomplished players.


And there's no way to know how good Mikan would be if he grew up in this era, but I'm guessing it's a bit better than Splitter.

:biggums: you serious bro, watch some clips online of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xEoCsDKXPo

Can you at least admit, talent wise he is no where close to top 50 all time?


You don't penalize guys for playing in a different era
To me that like saying you dont take into account level of competition.

[Kblaze8855]

Welll this was the NBAs top 50 list in 96:


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Nate Archibald
Paul Arizin
Charles Barkley
Rick Barry
Elgin Baylor
Dave Bing
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Bob Cousy
Dave Cowens
Billy Cunningham
Dave DeBusschere
Clyde Drexler
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
George Gervin
Hal Greer
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Magic Johnson
Sam Jones
Michael Jordan
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Kevin McHale
George Mikan
Earl Monroe
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Robert Parish
Bob Pettit
Scottie Pippen
Willis Reed
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bill Russell
Dolph Schayes
Bill Sharman
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Nate Thurmond
Wes Unseld
Bill Walton
Jerry West
Lenny Wilkens
James Worthy


Featuring many players ISH in general would rank behind Manu even though they dont know shit about them. Which I will put aside for now....

Lets say there are 20 such players....that list doesnt include:


Duncan
Kobe
Lebron
durant
Payton
Wade
Kidd
Ray Allen
Pierce
Iverson
Dennis Johnson
Kg
Dirk
Tmac
David thompson
Dwight
Melo
Mcadoo
Chris Paul
Zo
Tony Parker
Rodman
Steve Nash
Nique
Reggie
Webber
Bernard King



Thats an awful lot of people to pack into not many spots vacated by the pioneers......



Manu is pretty much Sam Jones(less accomplished due to Russell) or Joe Dumars. In that area.

No reason to put him over a gang of guys hed be considered worse than and HAS BEEN considered worse than in the same league.

Forget the historical talents like Thompson, Connie Hawkins, and so on.

There are scores of legends who earned a spot over Manu who barely even get mentioned.

Guys like Paul Westphal who were all NBA first team over a young Magic Johnson but if I make a Manu or Paul topic people who dont even remember him as the suns coach will laugh.

At some point I have to ask...if you are gonna dismiss the past so totally why does an all time ranking even matter?

If the people who came before us dont count of what note is being ranked number ___ all time?

We erased half of time to get you there....

[Milbuck]

if you are gonna dismiss the past so totally why does an all time ranking even matter?

If the people who came before us dont count of what note is being ranked number ___ all time?
This is a pretty strong point, and is my biggest problem with all-time rankings. The same exact people who go around completely discrediting guys like Bill Russell are the same guys comfortably putting him in their top 3 or 5, trolls excluded. People so desperately want to cling to the notion that 'modern is better'...but when it comes down to ranking them all, they'll throw all the old guys in there to avoid sounding like jackasses. The lack of consistency is pretty frustrating at times.

[bizil]

'Nique never had a team like the Spurs have had for over a decade. Never played with a big like Duncan. Makes a lot of difference, no?

Also, "Manu fills up the career achievements list?" Meaning what, exactly? Manu is a two-time All-Star, two-time All-NBA 3rd team pick and Sixth Man of the Year. Wilkins was a 9-time All-Star, 4-time All-NBA 2nd team pick, two-time All-NBA 3rd team pick and once made the All-NBA 1st team. Also made the All-Rookie 1st team out of college compared to Manu's All-Rookie 2nd team selection as a older rookie.

Manu has more rings through playing on much, much, MUCH better teams.


I agree! Nique was a legit superstar who was a top 10 player in the world for his era. Nique was also one of the league's top attractions for things like the All-Star Games, dunk contests, posters, and of course those great VHS NBA Superstar tapes back in the day. Nique also finished 2nd in MVP voting in 86 AHEAD of icons during The Golden Era like Magic, Kareem, Isiah, Moses, etc.