Why does everyone focus so much on Lebron being GOAT rather than 2nd GOAT?

[Derivative]

It's highly unlikely that Lebron can match and surpass MJ's career and end up the GOAT.

But on his current pace, Lebron is on his way to the undisputed second best player of all time.

But then how come no one ever talks about the possibility and likelihood that Lebron will be 2nd GOAT? Why does everyone either try to bash Lebron and talk about Lebron being the GOAT? Why is there no realistic middle ground?

It's also fitting that the King becomes the second best all time, as the GOAT is reserved for god (MJ).

[J Shuttlesworth]

Because of people like you who say "The more I watch LeBron, the more I think he is > MJ"

[Derivative]

Because of people like you who say "The more I watch LeBron, the more I think he is > MJ"


Hmm I don't recall that.

[GimmeThat]

because of peoples inability to get over the number 1
so Gilbert Arenas popularized the number 0


because there can only be one GOAT
or the term GOAT blows up and human literature is burned and destroyed.

the reality and possibility that mutiple GOAT will live through our time
and because of circumstances make them imcomparable to others

is you know, something for history
which is... fabricated. unless you believe in a talking snake

something like that.

[Derivative]

because of peoples inability to get over the number 1
so Gilbert Arenas popularized the number 0


because there can only be one GOAT
or the term GOAT blows up and human literature is burned and destroyed.

the reality and possibility that mutiple GOAT will live through our time
and because of circumstances make them imcomparable to others

is you know, something for history
which is... fabricated. unless you believe in a talking snake

something like that.

MJ is the consensus GOAT.

And after Lebron retires, he will be the undisputed 2nd greatest of all time.

[JohnMax]

If he made his teammates better like Steve Nash and Magic Johnson. I could see him being better than Jordan.

But he only helps catch and shoot players like Ray Allen. He made Wade and Bosh's stats worse.

[Warfan]

The media tries to force down peoples throats the comparison of every great player to mike. That's why I don't care when people say stuff like 'mike wouldnt have passed up that shot' etc, because these people are just comparing someone to the GOAT to try and bring that player down, which is really stupid.

Kinda seems like mj has taken away some people's enjoyment of other great players :lol


Hmm I don't recall that.

:coleman:

[GimmeThat]

MJ is the consensus GOAT.

And after Lebron retires, he will be the undisputed 2nd greatest of all time.


True, the Roman Empire lived on for about 500 years.

And every country, historical government since then has been either sh*t or 2nd greatest of all time. or you know, unless you want to argue Roman Empire isn't the GOAT government in history.

you get my point.

[Marchesk]

And after Lebron retires, he will be the undisputed 2nd greatest of all time.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/kareem-abdul-jabbar/abdul-jabbar-608.jpg

[Ancient Legend]

MJ ruined the NBA in terms of how we view players compared to him. Nowadays, no superstar is allowed to succeed on their own terms, they must live up to him.

[GimmeThat]

MJ ruined the NBA in terms of how we view players compared to him. Nowadays, no superstar is allowed to succeed on their own terms, they must live up to him.

Actually.

David Stern may had brain f*cked you.

And now Adam Silver is here to save the world.

[Adam Silver]

Actually.

David Stern may had brain f*cked you.

And now Adam Silver is here to save the world.

Damn straight I am. :pimp:

[ILLsmak]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/kareem-abdul-jabbar/abdul-jabbar-608.jpg

I mean...

Kareem, MJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, and Magic are always going to have an argument over any modern player. That doesn't mean it's right, but Bron is gonna have to do some wild shit in order to get consensus 2nd when a lot of people (myself included) would question whether MJ was really GOAT... and wasn't just someone having the sexiest resume.

Kareem to me is the most iconic bball player cuz he did it all of his life until he was 42, but does that mean if you put him vs prime Shaq that he'd win the matchup?

Just like I think Bird would probably do LeBron dirty.

I rate by talent not resume, but that's just me...

-Smak

[raprap]

1. God - MJ
2. King - LeBron





Where will the servant end up?

[Micku]

If he made his teammates better like Steve Nash and Magic Johnson. I could see him being better than Jordan.

But he only helps catch and shoot players like Ray Allen. He made Wade and Bosh's stats worse.

They helped each other to be more efficient. Bosh gets the bigs out of the paint, which makes more room for LBJ and D-Wade to finish at the rim. You can't double Wade or LBJ because they could find each other or shooters. But Wade and Bosh changed their game more for LeBron James and to fit a system.

But LBJ isn't Magic in terms of running the offense, but he's better than a lot of ppl.

[dilley]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/history/legends/kareem-abdul-jabbar/abdul-jabbar-608.jpg
That's a sexy fking picture got damn, brb.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

MJ is the consensus GOAT.

And after Lebron retires, he will be the undisputed 2nd greatest of all time.
if LeBron wins these finals he has better chances to surpass Jordan than not to do it.
should he even 4 peat he has nearly surpassed him that moment.
lets wait and see but the chances are still there.
hes even more impactful than Jordan on the court and is only lacking rings and FMVPs right now since i am sure he will get 1-2 MVPs before he retires:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[dunksby]

I mean...

Kareem, MJ, Wilt, Russell, Bird, and Magic are always going to have an argument over any modern player. That doesn't mean it's right, but Bron is gonna have to do some wild shit in order to get consensus 2nd when a lot of people (myself included) would question whether MJ was really GOAT... and wasn't just someone having the sexiest resume.

Kareem to me is the most iconic bball player cuz he did it all of his life until he was 42, but does that mean if you put him vs prime Shaq that he'd win the matchup?

Just like I think Bird would probably do LeBron dirty.

I rate by talent not resume, but that's just me...

-Smak
That's a distorted view, you can't punish a player who dominated in multiple eras because you think he might not have fared well against an athlete that came after him. And why is it that Kareem who was elite on both ends of the floor would lose a matchup against an elite one way player compared to him? How is Shaq gonna stop Kareem from destroying him? When you put up players against each other do you imagine one as always on offense and the other always on defense? :confusedshrug:

[GimmeThat]

1. God - MJ
2. King - LeBron





Where will the servant end up?

Scottie Pippen must be your ancestor,

which leaves you just about where you belong.

[FPJ]

1. God - MJ
2. King - LeBron





Where will the servant end up?

Common sense implies he'll end up better than the rapist. :D

[fiddy]

1. God - MJ
2. King - LeBron





Where will the servant end up?
serving the god and the king, he even said it in an interview, he likes to serve god

[fiddy]

Common sense implies he'll end up better than the rapist. :D
your father that you never met?

[kells333]

I dont know if it means anything to you guys but i already think hes better than jordan.

[TheReturn]

If he made his teammates better like Steve Nash and Magic Johnson. I could see him being better than Jordan.

But he only helps catch and shoot players like Ray Allen. He made Wade and Bosh's stats worse.
Made their stats worse but they got a couple of championships in return..

[GimmeThat]

If he made his teammates better like Steve Nash and Magic Johnson. I could see him being better than Jordan.

But he only helps catch and shoot players like Ray Allen. He made Wade and Bosh's stats worse.

I think it's just the fact that he's on the Eastern Conference.

Bosh has probably shown to be a more capable defender than others suspect BECAUSE of playing next to Lebron and not because Lebron made him a better defender.

Lets just say that if we switch his mentality to something like a WR to a QB. He would all of a sudden "make his teammates better"

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I dont know if it means anything to you guys but i already think hes better than jordan.
it means a whole lot.
preach that non stop in this forum

[Marchesk]

I dont know if it means anything to you guys but i already think hes better than jordan.

He's not better than Magic, atm.

[KOBE143]

Only delusional retart Bran stans think LeBran is GOAT.. And to make it clear to all retarted Bran stans, LeBron will never end as 2nd GOAT because that spot is already taken/reserved to KAJ, Magic, Kobe so stop dreaming and go back to reality.. LeBron ceiling is top 10 no more, no less..

[oh the horror]

Because these youngsters are desperate to have the "goat" coming from their generation of ball.


The reality is most of them don't know wtf they're talking about.



Crowing someone the greatest player when his career isn't even over yet tells me it has less to do with the actual truth thus far but rather other BS.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hmm I don't recall that.

http://media3.giphy.com/media/xQcUyue226cM0/200.gif

[GimmeThat]

Only delusional retart Bran stans think LeBran is GOAT.. And to make it clear to all retarted Bran stans, LeBron will never end as 2nd GOAT because that spot is already taken/reserved to KAJ, Magic, Kobe so stop dreaming and go back to reality.. LeBron ceiling is top 10 no more, no less..

They digged you out of the grave ALREADY?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Only delusional retart Bran stans think LeBran is GOAT.. And to make it clear to all retarted Bran stans, LeBron will never end as 2nd GOAT because that spot is already taken/reserved to KAJ, Magic, Kobe so stop dreaming and go back to reality.. LeBron ceiling is top 10 no more, no less..
:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :kobe:

[Psileas]

Why does everyone focus so much on Lebron being GOAT rather than 2nd GOAT?

Because there is no reason to believe that if someone can become the 2nd GOAT, he can't become #1, as if there is some huge gap between #1 and #2.

And because every generation believes or hopes that they saw the GOAT. If the GOAT position was really undisputed among everyone, this sport's popularity would suffer. After all, in the minds of many, why watch a sport whose GOAT you have no hope of viewing live?

[Roundball_Rock]

Because there is no reason to believe that if someone can become the 2nd GOAT, he can't become #1, as if there is some huge gap between #1 and #2.

Exactly. It is ironic, LeBron will benefit from the same hype machine that has elevated Jordan to a solitary Mt. Rushmore. These people convinced the masses that MJ>>>KAJ, Wilt, Russell. They can easily convince people LeBron>MJ, especially since LeBron has a better resume than MJ did at this age. He is on pace to surpass MJ's resume. Given the tendency to favor more recent players, I predict 5-10 years from now LeBron will be the "clear" public GOAT while MJ will be remembered in the same way, say, KAJ is today. Keep in mind this year's incoming college freshmen were 3 when Bill Clinton left the White House and infants when MJ last played as an elite player. To them people like MJ and Clinton are as much history as Kareem is to the Jordan era generation.

If LeBron is going to have a resume good enough to surpass Kareem, Magic, Bird, Wilt, Shaq, and Russell why is it impossible that he may not also compile a resume that trumps Jordan? People act as if MJ's resume is on a tier above people like Kareem.

Kareem: 6 MVP's, 6 rings, 10 Finals, 14 conference finals, was elite for 17 consecutive seasons (longevity no other player in history can compete with), the GOAT college player who went 88-2 and even beat the #1 team with a team of freshmen, the GOAT high school player

Jordan: 5 MVP's, 6 rings, 6 Finals, 8 conference finals, a good but not all-time great college player (that is why he was the #3 pick), was famously cut from his high school team

Clear GOAT?

[Flash31]

MJ is the consensus GOAT.

And after Lebron retires, he will be the undisputed 2nd greatest of all time.

No he's an arguable GOAT.
He's the consensus Goat among the younger generation and people who grew up in the 90s but for the people who watched the 60s,70s,80s and old timers he's not the consensus goat either bc they have someone else as Goat(wilt,kareem,russell,oscar,magic,bird) or
bc they aren't glued onto mjs nuts like the current media and generation is.




There really IS NO Clear GOAT no matter what some Mj stans or media wants to say.

Any of MJ,Wilt,Russell,Kareem,Magic,Bird,Oscar
could be argued as THE GOAT with good reason and it being fine.

I mean if ESPN and the Media was so certain of MJ being CLEAR GOAT,
they wouldn't exclude Wilt,Russell,Kareem,Oscar in records with an arbitrary cut off date.They wouldn't try to not even mention the careers of those guys.
They wouldn't use the excuse of MJ was a Guard so it's more impressive and Better.Thry wouldn't hide Mjs failures and faults an trash any player that came close to his resume or status but they do.


In the current media,MJ is nothing but praise,hype 24/7
and his legacy is protected an he's put on an extreme ball slurping pedestal
while everybody else has their faults and failures exposed.

[Flash31]

Due to the current MJ worship media,
no matter what anyone accomplishes,
the media will NEVER see that person as a Goat or arguable Goat,and no one will be able to touch MJ.

MJ is the NBA's Golden BOY by Far an bc of that and the money made from the MJ worship,no one will be able to come close.

It doesn't matter who it is(LeBron,Kobe,Wade,Durant,Duncan,Shaq),
the media will not allow anyone to surpass MJ.

The Jordan brand has made over 2 Billion in sales on shoes alone last year.
And regardless of accomplishments or things done,the NBa is a business.

We see the Sterling case as an example.The NBA knew about it for the past 30 years and did notging until it affected their money.
Kobe Bryant doesn't even play and is still hyped and voted into
all star,all d,all team selections due to the media and his popularity,money.

Before the Gay rights issues,nobody reqlly wanted to hire Collins but now bc it makes publicity,money the Nets hire him.


LeBron could be a goat,maybe an arguable Goat but willl never be a consensus goat bc the media will not allow it and they influence people's opinions and rankings heavily.

There is no middle ground really bc we as fans want someone to come close to MJ an like Kobe,Shaq,Duncan we get it,but it's never enough or close enough even if it really is.
In our minds,we want a new GOAT,but due to the media,the people will never actually allow it to be, so in essence,since MJ,
we're looking for the 3rd Best on the GOAt list bc no one will go 11 Rings and no one surpasses MJ.


Every generation had their GOAT,yet today this gnerations GoAT will always be MJ.
60s--Wilt,Russell
70s--Kareem,Oscar
80s--Magic,Bird
90s--Jordan
2000s--Jordan,Kobe
now---Jordan

[GrapeApe]

One thing to consider is that Jordan won 2 MVP's, 3 titles, and 3 FMVP's at 32+ years of age. He basically put up a top 10 resume AFTER his prime. That kind of success at the back end of your career will be hard to duplicate.

[Rocketswin2013]

You're ****ing kidding yourself if you think Kareem or Wilt was better than Jordan. You're also on bathsalts if you think Magic is even close to LeBron at this point.


The only people LeBron is going to have a hard time surpassing is Kareem, Russell and MJ. Realistically, he will never pass Jordan because of 2011. But bird and magic have no ****ing case, come on. I WAS a LeBron hater before and even I knew it was just getting ridiculous trying to say any form of Magic or Bird is on his level. :facepalm He is almost a LOCK for top 3 at this point.

[Mass Debator]

Lebron will become the GOAT and set an even higher standard.

Come straight out of high school. 27/7/7 career average. Shoot almost 57% in his prime years as a wing player. 4-6 MVPs. 2-6 rings. Play 95% of his total games. Carry scrubs and coaches to multiple 60 win seasons.

If he wins a championship this year, he's locked as a top 3 IMO. 4-peat and I think he's with Jordan as 1a-1b.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

One thing to consider is that Jordan won 2 MVP's, 3 titles, and 3 FMVP's at 32+ years of age. He basically put up a top 10 resume AFTER his prime. That kind of success at the back end of your career will be hard to duplicate.
ultra giga stacked mega teams with the GOAT coach against super weak competition.
next:coleman:

[riseagainst]

OP is a phagt.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336045

Thread created: May 12

Original post:


I know that MJ is the GOAT, but the more I watch Lebron these days the more I think that he's a more dominant player than MJ.

Even more so when I watch Cavaliers Lebron videos, especially in 2009, he was godlike during those years.



again, OP is a phgt.

[Hey Yo]

He's not better than Magic, atm.
Magic's defense was well below average. There's a reason why he usually guarded the the worst or 2nd to worst offensive guy on the floor.

He's overrated in my book.

[stalkerforlife]

You might want to compare his finals appearances to some of the other all time greats, pal.

Not even close to #2.

The finals are all that matters, young blood.

[kells333]

He's not better than Magic, atm.

Chill, hes absolutley better than magic. Lebron would put the clamps on slow ass magic.

[PostUpFreak]

Lebron will be the GOAT..its inevitable

[GeeWiz]

Lebron will be the GOAT..its inevitable

I disagree with you, he will need a pretty insane resume for people to rank him above Jordan, Jordan was a killer, LeBron will be in the debate with KAJ, Magic, Russell etc by the time he is done imo.

[GrapeApe]

ultra giga stacked mega teams with the GOAT coach against super weak competition.
next:coleman:

Aside from GOAT coach (which is retrospective) the same exact things are said about LeBron. Mind you I'm a Heat fan and not a LeBron stan but my point is that despite being on pace, LeBron has a lot of work to do.

[russwest0]

It's highly unlikely that Lebron can match and surpass MJ's career and end up the GOAT.

But on his current pace, Lebron is on his way to the undisputed second best player of all time.

But then how come no one ever talks about the possibility and likelihood that Lebron will be 2nd GOAT? Why does everyone either try to bash Lebron and talk about Lebron being the GOAT? Why is there no realistic middle ground?

It's also fitting that the King becomes the second best all time, as the GOAT is reserved for god (MJ).

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

No chance in hell Bran passes Kareem.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I disagree with you, he will need a pretty insane resume for people to rank him above Jordan, Jordan was a killer, LeBron will be in the debate with KAJ, Magic, Russell etc by the time he is done imo.
Those 2 are in the debate with MJ as far as i'm concerned.

[Roundball_Rock]

Let's wait two weeks but if LeBron has 3 rings, 4 MVP's at age 29 that is comparable to or superior to the resume of any player in history outside of Russell.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Let's wait two weeks but if LeBron has 3 rings, 4 MVP's at age 29 that is comparable to or superior to the resume of any player in history outside of Russell.

Agreed.. I saw another poster claim that if Bron were to win a chip (assuming his production is that of the superstar standard), at 29, he would have accomplished more than anyone in history (at that age).

Would definitely have a case for GOAT peak.

[Roundball_Rock]

Agreed.. I saw another poster claim that if Bron were to win a chip (assuming his production is that of the superstar standard), at 29, he would have accomplished more than anyone in history (at that age).

Well, Russell wins the MVP's and rings combination comparison at age cut-off. Outside of him, though, that statement arguably is true. It would be (excluding the 60's):

LeBron 3 rings, 4 MVP's
MJ 3 rings, 3 MVP's
Magic 5 rings, 2 MVP's
Bird 3 rings, 3 MVP's
Kareem 1 ring, 5 MVP's
Shaq 2 rings, 1 MVP

So LeBron would be up there with the group in rings, outside of Magic, and would be behind only Kareem in MVP's.

While LeBron is at a torrid pace, it should be noted what those players did after age 29, which could be a cautionary tale:

MJ 3 rings, 2 MVP's
Magic 0 rings, 1 MVP
Bird 0 rings, 0 MVP's
Kareem 4 rings, 1 MVP
Shaq 2 rings, 0 MVP's

It is entirely possible that LeBron at 31 will have a better resume than MJ (remember, MJ did nothing to add to his legacy at ages 30 and 31)--but will run out of gas (as far as winning rings and MVP's goes) heading to the finish line and not match what MJ did from 32-35.

[Rocketswin2013]

Well, Russell wins the MVP's and rings combination comparison at age cut-off. Outside of him, though, that statement arguably is true. It would be (excluding the 60's):

LeBron 3 rings, 4 MVP's
MJ 3 rings, 3 MVP's
Magic 5 rings, 2 MVP's
Bird 3 rings, 3 MVP's
Kareem 1 ring, 5 MVP's
Shaq 2 rings, 1 MVP

So LeBron would be up there with the group in rings, outside of Magic, and would be behind only Kareem in MVP's.

While LeBron is at a torrid pace, it should be noted what those players did after age 29, which could be a cautionary tale:

MJ 3 rings, 2 MVP's
Magic 0 rings, 1 MVP
Bird 0 rings, 0 MVP's
Kareem 4 rings, 1 MVP
Shaq 2 rings, 0 MVP's

It is entirely possible that LeBron at 31 will have a better resume than MJ (remember, MJ did nothing to add to his legacy at ages 30 and 31)--but will run out of gas (as far as winning rings and MVP's goes) heading to the finish line and not match what MJ did from 32-35.
He also had the biggest and most monumental choke job out of those guys. And a worse Finals performer than all but maybe Bird.





LeNumberTwoAlltimeAtBest(It's insane that idiots even look at that as bad)

[GimmeThat]

Those 2 are in the debate with MJ as far as i'm concerned.


But you must have never watched Jordan played.

[Threethrows]

If he made his teammates better like Steve Nash and Magic Johnson. I could see him being better than Jordan.

But he only helps catch and shoot players like Ray Allen. He made Wade and Bosh's stats worse.

Do you actually believe this garbage that you write?

First, LeBron did not turn Bosh into a spot up shooter, Spo and Bosh did.

Second, he didn't make their stats worse. Wade has had some of his better years playing with LeBron, and Bosh just got off two of his more efficient scoring years of his career.

You're confusing high volume with good stats, a common mistake for people that don't think before they spew.

Each of those guys had their own teams before, of course they aren't all going to get as high of volume numbers as they got on their own teams. That's just common sense.

When you combine the 3 you want LeBron taking the lead role, because he's the best player.

:facepalm