Do you think Durant makes Westbrook better...

[Haymaker]

and viceversa? I think both of them should go their separate ways. Westbrook could take over Derrick Rose's spot as the King of Chicago and Durant is better off with a pass first pg who feeds him most of the time. They are too ball dominant to co-exist effectively. In the Heat situation, Wade took a step back to Bron and let him do it his way and things worked out. Westbrook should be facilitating more than shooting. What say ye all?

[GimmeThat]

When the hell did Wade took a step back?

Oh right, his f*cking injured Knee



Unless anyone is convinced that Scott Brook is a better coach, and a tougher replacement than Westbrook. There's just no logical reason you break up the pair.

[Fiddlesticks]

Westbrook for Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. OKC needs a pass first PG and a post scorer that can get his own shot.

[SOD 21]

Westbrook for Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. OKC needs a pass first PG and a post scorer that can get his own shot.

That sounds like a fair trade for OKC and I am sure that Sam Presti will jump all over it.

Maybe Oklahoma City can throw in a couple of first-round draft picks, too.

[scm5]

OKC will be fine and will probably have a monster team next year if Adams and Jackson progress even more.

Westbrook might even have to slide over to SG like he has at times during the playoffs:

Jackson
Westbrook
Durant
Ibaka
Adams

[Haymaker]

Westbrook for Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. OKC needs a pass first PG and a post scorer that can get his own shot.
Jennings has no pass button either.

[Fiddlesticks]

That sounds like a fair trade for OKC and I am sure that Sam Presti will jump all over it.

Maybe Oklahoma City can throw in a couple of first-round draft picks, too.
I sense your sarcasm, I think you're forgetting how good Josh Smith was before last year. 18/9 with superior d. Smith and Ibaka would be a terror for teams to drive against.

[DMAVS41]

and viceversa? I think both of them should go their separate ways. Westbrook could take over Derrick Rose's spot as the King of Chicago and Durant is better off with a pass first pg who feeds him most of the time. They are too ball dominant to co-exist effectively. In the Heat situation, Wade took a step back to Bron and let him do it his way and things worked out. Westbrook should be facilitating more than shooting. What say ye all?

Westbrook taking a step back would kill the Thunder.

Holy shit...watching Durant try to do more on his own in the playoffs would be an epic fail. He'd turn it over 10 times a game.

People need to really stop looking at the regular season for evidence about this team.

Last year they looked like shit without WB in the playoffs...and then this year WB/Jackson saved Durant's ass repeatedly in entire games and in huge moments.

More Durant equal more turnovers and more plays like him crossing himself over. That's not his game.

The reason Wade could take a step back was because Lebron is one of the best players ever and certainly an elite playmaker and game manager that is far better with the ball in his hands than Durant could ever dream of being.

[Fiddlesticks]

Jennings has no pass button either.
Nah if you actually watched Pistons games like I did you would know that Jennings is a pretty pure pg. His fg% is low because he isn't strong enough to finish at the basket which also causes him to take jumpers.

[Jlamb47]

Westbrook taking a step back would kill the Thunder.

Holy shit...watching Durant try to do more on his own in the playoffs would be an epic fail. He'd turn it over 10 times a game.

People need to really stop looking at the regular season for evidence about this team.

Last year they looked like shit without WB in the playoffs...and then this year WB/Jackson saved Durant's ass repeatedly in entire games and in huge moments.

More Durant equal more turnovers and more plays like him crossing himself over. That's not his game.

The reason Wade could take a step back was because Lebron is one of the best players ever and certainly an elite playmaker and game manager that is far better with the ball in his hands than Durant could ever dream of being.

your trying to hard to make Lebron look good. Durant is 2nd best player in the NBA, he can do fine. hes 25

[russwest0]

yeah, DMAVS is either going troll mode or really overreacting to the playoffs this year

He used to be really rational about this shit.

I agree that Westbrooks aggressiveness is crucial to OKC but it doesn't mean it wouldn't work if he took a step back.

All OKC really needs is a better coach, some better role players, maybe someone other than KD that is actually reliable from 3pt land, and lastly a system in place to get more than 2 players involved w/ creating shots for others.

All of that sounds hard to do but it's really as simple as trading both 1st rounders OKC has in the draft and moving up to get McDermott or Stauskas, signing a reliable 3pt shooter in FA, and then firing Brooks and hiring someone new.

[DMAVS41]

your trying to hard to make Lebron look good. Durant is 2nd best player in the NBA, he can do fine. hes 25

What????

Has nothing to do with Lebron.

Durant, in the tough playoffs against quality teams, does not need the ball more and does not need to be taking more shots.

He's not nearly a good enough playmaker or solid with the ball for that.

What he needs to do is develop more of a post game or just get stronger and tougher....and he also needs to play far better defense.

Durant was the best player in the regular season, but he wasn't a top 2 player in the playoffs. Westbrook was the better player in the playoffs than Durant. I'm not sure Durant is comfortably the 2nd best player.

He is great though...nobody is denying that...but after the playoffs again, just like last year, I have to question if he's the clear cut 2nd best guy.

[russwest0]

What????

Has nothing to do with Lebron.

Durant, in the tough playoffs against quality teams, does not need the ball more and does not need to be taking more shots.

He's not nearly a good enough playmaker or solid with the ball for that.

What he needs to do is develop more of a post game or just get stronger and tougher....and he also needs to play far better defense.

Durant was the best player in the regular season, but he wasn't a top 2 player in the playoffs. Westbrook was the better player in the playoffs than Durant. I'm not sure Durant is comfortably the 2nd best player.

He is great though...nobody is denying that...but after the playoffs again, just like last year, I have to question if he's the clear cut 2nd best guy.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

so if he played in the East and coasted to the Finals you wouldn't have any questions?

This dude played teams that would be the 3rd, 1st, and 1st seeds in the East respectively and did it in the season where he played more minutes than anybody and had to take on an increased role w/ the injuries of Westbrook/Thabo/Perkins, and w/ the star reliant coaching of Scott Brooks,

and what were his numbers? 30/9/4 with 4 turnovers per game on 46% shooting? and you have to question if he's the best player on the planet?

lmao

[DMAVS41]

yeah, DMAVS is either going troll mode or really overreacting to the playoffs this year

He used to be really rational about this shit.

I agree that Westbrooks aggressiveness is crucial to OKC but it doesn't mean it wouldn't work if he took a step back.

All OKC really needs is a better coach, some better role players, maybe someone other than KD that is actually reliable from 3pt land, and lastly a system in place to get more than 2 players involved w/ creating shots for others.

All of that sounds hard to do but it's really as simple as trading both 1st rounders OKC has in the draft and moving up to get McDermott or Stauskas, signing a reliable 3pt shooter in FA, and then firing Brooks and hiring someone new.


It's not trolling to hold Durant accountable...

And who is going overboard? You act like I'm saying they can't win with this group...I'm saying the exact opposite.

You people need to stop blaming Westbrook for serious issues in Durant's game these playoffs. He got singled all playoffs. He got pushed off his spots. His turnovers were terrible. His defensive effort was shit...especially off the ball. He got bailed the **** out in two huge games that would have likely sent him packing in the first or 2nd round.

WB has his flaws...but he's not making Durant play like that.

And no, it's not hard to improve this team. Sign Meeks, even if you have to overpay by 15%, then sign Ed Davis....then actually give Lamb and Jones a lot of burn in the regular season.

Not hard....Presti just ****ed up this year and he should be held accountable.

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

so if he played in the East and coasted to the Finals you wouldn't have any questions?

This dude played teams that would be the 3rd, 1st, and 1st seeds in the East respectively and did it in the season where he played more minutes than anybody and had to take on an increased role w/ the injuries of Westbrook/Thabo/Perkins, and w/ the star reliant coaching of Scott Brooks

It's all about how he plays...and how well Westbrook played.

For all I know...PG and Stephenson would have shut Durant down if they played the Pacers. Only difference would be that WB would have been enough to beat the Pacers because they aren't good.

Westbrook was better than Durant in the playoffs. So I don't know how you crown KD the for sure 2nd best player in the league when the guy got outplayed by a teammate and still didn't make the finals. Seems to me that isn't what the clear cut 2nd best player does.

[russwest0]

Presti's problem is he prefers working with scaling rookie contracts versus dealing with free agency. Though perhaps that may be because he is indeed limited with a strict budget from the owner.

I will say with Presti this teams problem will never be talent. The problem is that this team has outgrown needing just the tallest most athletic players with huge wingspans as it appears those players will just become assets for other teams down the line.

Right now Sam Presti is clear-cut the best talent evaluator in the NBA. If he wants to become the best executive in the NBA he needs to start by firing Scott Brooks first and foremost because like we saw with Mike Miller, I'm not sure that championship caliber role players are going to be chomping at the bit to play in Scott Brooks's "stand around and watch the stars iso" offense.

[DMAVS41]

Presti's problem is he prefers working with scaling rookie contracts versus dealing with free agency. Though perhaps that may be because he is indeed limited with a strict budget from the owner.

I will say with Presti this teams problem will never be talent. The problem is that this team has outgrown needing just the tallest most athletic players with huge wingspans as it appears those players will just become assets for other teams down the line.

Right now Sam Presti is clear-cut the best talent evaluator in the NBA. If he wants to become the best executive in the NBA he needs to start by firing Scott Brooks first and foremost because like we saw with Mike Miller, I'm not sure that championship caliber role players are going to be chomping at the bit to play in Scott Brooks's "stand around and watch the stars iso" offense.

Part of his job is building the right team though.

And I'm sorry, he ****ed up horribly thinking that Fisher/Thabo/Butler was going to work.

I called this a long long long time ago. He should have moved for Meeks or Afflalo.

He didn't...and he cost them a chance at the title because of it.

And might cost them again next year because free agency might be tougher to fill in those spots as Meeks might get grossly overpaid now.

Presti had a horrible year.

[russwest0]

And you really are questioning whether Westbrook or Durant is the 2nd best player in the league now?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I'd love to see Durant miss half of the season, not play on b2bs, have a minutes restriction, all while Westbrook plays more minutes than anyone else in the NBA and has a largely increased role with role players going out as well....

I'd love to see all of this lead to OKC getting the 2nd seed and Westbrook putting up better stats than Durant in the playoffs.

And this is coming from one of Westbrooks biggest fans.

[DMAVS41]

And you really are questioning whether Westbrook or Durant is the 2nd best player in the league now?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I'd love to see Durant miss half of the season, not play on b2bs, have a minutes restriction, all while Westbrook plays more minutes than anyone else in the NBA and has a largely increased role with role players going out as well....

I'd love to see all of this lead to OKC getting the 2nd seed and Westbrook putting up better stats than Durant in the playoffs.

And this is coming from one of Westbrooks biggest fans.

Yes.

I don't care about the regular season much. It almost means nothing to me. Durant's game is perfect for playing bad teams that aren't trying that hard on a night to night basis.

It's not, however, as good for playing the best teams that are trying hard every game.

Westbrook was the 2nd best player in the playoffs...

[russwest0]

agreed that regular season means nothing, which is why OKC needs a coach who is willing to take a few extra losses to have everyone well rested and prepared for the playoffs...

not a coach who is going to ride his star thats in a shooting slump all the way down to the last game of the season where he plays 45 minutes just so OKC can win vs a shitty team like the Pistons...

[DMAVS41]

agreed that regular season means nothing, which is why OKC needs a coach who is willing to take a few extra losses to have everyone well rested and prepared for the playoffs...

not a coach who is going to ride his star thats in a shooting slump all the way down to the last game of the season where he plays 45 minutes just so OKC can win vs a shitty team like the Pistons...

yep. Brooks sucks. he really does...no way around that.

my only points are that Durant did not play the playoffs like the clear cut 2nd best player in the league and;

Presti did a terrible job with this team this year. Still support and love the Harden trade...actually more than ever after watching Adams play. Part of what makes the harden trade great in my opinion was the financial flexibility to go out and get a guy like Meeks or Afflalo...like they did with Martin in 13. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody is talking about how much better the Thunder were last year with Martin in there when WB was healthy. Now imagine they have a pseudo Martin and Adams!!!!! That is what this team should have looked like this year. Just as a basketball fan it pisses me off.

But he ****ed up big time not doing something to get a guy like Meeks or Afflalo...the more I think about it...the more I like Meeks better as I think he might fit even better...and he comes cheaper.

What reason was there not to flip something for Meeks this year???? He not only is perfect this year, but you then have the inside track at signing him cheaper for the future.

[SOD 21]

There's no question that the overall caliber play from Kevin Durant dropped in the postseason from his lofty heights in the regular season.

When teams are allowed to play more physical in the playoffs and the game slows down, it seems to affect Kevin Durant more than someone like Westbrook, who is ultra athletic and has his ability to get anywhere at any time on the floor.

The reason that Kevin Durant struggled in the playoffs is because it is more physical and he must get stronger. Teams have also figured out by playing smaller defenders on him that you can take away his dribble drive penetration and it leads to a high number of turnovers, and yet Kevin Durant won't or can't use his height effectively to post them up and fills to exploit that this match. Also, his inability to guard Boris Diaw due to a lack of strength really hurt Oklahoma City when San Antonio went to a smaller lineup.

Teams don't often make those adjustments in the regular season and that is one of the reasons why he excels in the regular season. KD must get stronger and must improve his post game.

[russwest0]

Yes and 2 years ago Durant in the playoffs played like the best player in the league. Put up 29/7/4 on insane efficiency, played great defense, and hit 3 game winners in the playoffs that year.

I just think you'd have to be a fool to imply that he's regressed since then. Using playoff production in a vacuum as the primary way to rank players is foolish.

He got overworked and his efficiency went down. It's nothing new that we haven't seen before. There were stats coming out before the playoffs warning us about OKC and Durants title hopes strictly based off of his minutes played... His MPG in the regular season for 81 games is higher than the amount of minutes per game that LeBron has put up in the playoffs so far this year... thats insane. Not to mention that this all happened in one of the toughest conferences ever with OKC having a number of injuries forcing Durant to have to do even MORE on the court for OKC...

[DMAVS41]

Yes and 2 years ago Durant in the playoffs played like the best player in the league. Put up 29/7/4 on insane efficiency, played great defense, and hit 3 game winners in the playoffs that year.

I just think you'd have to be a fool to imply that he's regressed since then. Using playoff production in a vacuum as the primary way to rank players is foolish.

He got overworked and his efficiency went down. It's nothing new that we haven't seen before. There were stats coming out before the playoffs warning us about OKC and Durants title hopes strictly based off of his minutes played... His MPG in the regular season for 81 games is higher than the amount of minutes per game that LeBron has put up in the playoffs so far this year... thats insane. Not to mention that this all happened in one of the toughest conferences ever with OKC having a number of injuries forcing Durant to have to do even MORE on the court for OKC...

It's been two years in a row for me that I thought Durant regressed in the playoffs.

I agree through...it's hard for me, and I even said this earlier, because I thought Durant was simply a better player and more of a force on both ends in 11 and 12.

Again, if he is worn down...it's even more on Presti for not getting him a Meeks or Afflalo to unload some of the pressure.

So here is what they should do (in my opinion of course)

Sign Reggie to extension.
Go out and get Meeks...even if they have to overpay a little.

Then...i'm a bit torn. My gut tells me they should get a backup big like Ed Davis and just run it back with an improved team as Lamb, Adams, and Jones will all be better next year by the playoffs.

Nothing wrong with that.

However, should the Thunder go all in and make a move for Monroe? The more I think about it...the more I think this might yield them the most titles over the next 10 years. Perkins expiring contract, Collison expiring contract, 2 first round picks, and Roberson and or another young player for a sign and trade with Detroit for Monroe?

This is of course assuming the Pistons aren't for sure keeping him. If they aren't...I don't see how they could turn down that package for a player they don't want to pay.

So I'm torn on what they should do in that sense, but they have to go out and get a guy like Meeks and sign Reggie to an extension. Those two things have to happen in my opinion.

[stevieming]

yep. Brooks sucks. he really does...no way around that.

my only points are that Durant did not play the playoffs like the clear cut 2nd best player in the league and;

Presti did a terrible job with this team this year. Still support and love the Harden trade...actually more than ever after watching Adams play. Part of what makes the harden trade great in my opinion was the financial flexibility to go out and get a guy like Meeks or Afflalo...like they did with Martin in 13. I can't, for the life of me, understand why nobody is talking about how much better the Thunder were last year with Martin in there when WB was healthy. Now imagine they have a pseudo Martin and Adams!!!!! That is what this team should have looked like this year. Just as a basketball fan it pisses me off.

But he ****ed up big time not doing something to get a guy like Meeks or Afflalo...the more I think about it...the more I like Meeks better as I think he might fit even better...and he comes cheaper.

What reason was there not to flip something for Meeks this year???? He not only is perfect this year, but you then have the inside track at signing him cheaper for the future.

Meeks isn't that good...have you watched any lakers games?? Affalo is better...

Shooting on par but Affalo brings more dribble penetration and much better defense.

[DMAVS41]

Meeks isn't that good...have you watched any lakers games?? Affalo is better...

Shooting on par but Affalo brings more dribble penetration and much better defense.

I know Afflalo is better. That isn't debatable.

It's that Afflalo will make almost twice as much at 7.5 million a year...and he's looking at a huge payday after he opts out after next year.

Afflalo made sense for the Thunder this year and next...if they make a move for him now...they probably only get 1 year out of him.

With Meeks, you can get 4 years at a reasonable price...

So in terms of value...especially with having to extend Jackson...and improve the roster and then have money in the future for other stuff like Adams, Lamb, and Jones potentially....

I think Meeks is the better value.

But of course Afflalo is better...I never said otherwise. I do think Meeks fits in very well on this Thunder team though...and so even though Afflalo is way better....it wouldn't be noticed as much on this Thunder team in the role they would both play.

[Jailblazers7]

Westbrook for Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. OKC needs a pass first PG and a post scorer that can get his own shot.

ISH would implode if that deal went down. People complain enough about Westbrook "chucking"...can you imagine the reactions when Josh smith takes 5 21 foot jumpers per game? Or Jennings goes 1/8 from 3? That situation would be insufferable.

[Fiddlesticks]

ISH would implode if that deal went down. People complain enough about Westbrook "chucking"...can you imagine the reactions when Josh smith takes 5 21 foot jumpers per game? Or Jennings goes 1/8 from 3? That situation would be insufferable.
Smith will also have good nights and I doubt Jennings shoots much with durant on his team. Jennings is a pure PG.