Do people actually believe Lebron is GOAT or better then Kobe with 3 Finals losses?

[BigBoss]

Heat fans on major damage control right now. Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball. Its okay to quit on your team over and over again, as long as you win sometimes. :rolleyes:

[navy]

How many threads are you going to make saying the SAME exact thing?

[r15mohd]

Heat fans on major damage control right now. Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball. Its okay to quit on your team over and over again, as long as you win sometimes. :rolleyes:


"I would like to be traded, yeah," Bryant said on 1050 ESPN Radio in New York. "Tough as it is to come to that conclusion there's no other alternative, you know?"

Bryant, interviewed by Stephen A. Smith, was asked if there was anything the Lakers could do to change his mind?

"No," Bryant said.


you were saying OP?!?!? :rolleyes:

[NumberSix]

Yes

[Kblaze8855]

Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball.

Clearly it is considering how nobody gives a shit anyone else lost in the finals so long as they also won.

Just a total redefinition of success when Lebron is the issue. Guys are ranked top 10-15 all time by many and never won. But its not ok to win 2 before youre 30 if you also lose a few?

Not one other person in sports history would have 2 titles before 30 considered anything but success.

In time nobody is gonna give 2 shits what a bunch of haters on the internet thought.

Guys with a grip of rings...how many times he lost means nothing. Shit Jerry West is Mr.Clutch for going 1 of 8 in the finals with 32% shooting in the one win.

I notice nobody giving a shit for the last 50 years. Greatness is greatness.

[NumberSix]

Heat fans on major damage control right now. Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball. Its okay to quit on your team over and over again, as long as you win sometimes. :rolleyes:
Meh. Certainly can't be any worse than losing on the smallest stage like Jordan and Kobe used to routinely do.

[Roundball_Rock]

The GOAT lost in the Finals 4 times. Of course, KAJ was in the Finals half of his career and in the conference finals 14 times. :bowdown:

[Eric Cartman]

yeah

[tmacattack33]

:roll:

[ILLsmak]

Heat fans on major damage control right now. Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball. Its okay to quit on your team over and over again, as long as you win sometimes. :rolleyes:

He's a more capable talent than Kobe. When you start talking about resumes, its harder. Still, it's close. I think LeBron has the better legacy at the moment, but hes in stasis. He will either be higher or lower after this finals.

-Smak

[BigBoss]

He's a more capable talent than Kobe. When you start talking about resumes, its harder. Still, it's close. I think LeBron has the better legacy at the moment, but hes in stasis. He will either be higher or lower after this finals.

-Smak

Has MJ ever had steak dinner with Lebron? Real recognizes real. Only ish who attracts a younger immature demographic has the audacity to put lebron ahead of kobe

[funnystuff]

Yeah Lebron should of just got beat in the first round to save his legacy.
























:rolleyes:

[pauk]

It certainly beats missing playoffs, losing in 1st round, losing in 2nd round, losing earlier than C.Finals, just generally losing earlier than Finals.... Being in the Finals as a team is more prestigious than anything except one thing, winning it aswell....

With that being said, what has Kobe been doing any better past 4 years to put his team in a position to compete for a championship? Is that what he is doing more prestigious? Because its better than losing or winning in the Finals and be "0 of 1 in Finals"?

Some of you Kobetards need to be spanked, due to what your agenda causes you things to say like this you are not only disrespecting Lebron, who cares, but any player who ever played this game, the game of basketball itself....

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe most ever first team all-nba selections.

Kobe most ever first team all-defense selections.

5-7 > 2-5

Kobe is better. That is a fact.

[stalkerforlife]

When are people going to stop escalating Bron based off of his meaningless stats? WHEN? He pads his stats. He protects his percentages. He disappears in the finals.

WHAT DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET?

[aj1987]

LeBron > Kobe. Not even a discussion at this point. Honestly 4 MVP's, 2 Rings, and 2 FMVP's at age 29. Kobe is probably around 11 right now.

[HurricaneKid]

Kobe most ever first team all-nba selections.

Kobe most ever first team all-defense selections.

5-7 > 2-5

Kobe is better. That is a fact.

Sounds like Kobe should be anointed Prom King.

Lots of stupid today. People proving that they were never athletes showing a fundamental ignorance about what athletes actually go through when they put everything on the line and there isn't anything left to give.

And those people are still not as dumb as anyone still hoping to continue to suggest LeBron isn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe.

[moe94]

When are people going to stop escalating Bron based off of his meaningless stats? WHEN? He pads his stats. He protects his percentages. He disappears in the finals.

WHAT DON'T YOU PEOPLE GET?

Kobe's Finals stats are garbage. Worse than LeBron's. :roll:

[dh144498]

lol "garbage"

[Keno]

yea. regardless of win or lose, lebron is still better than kobe by a landslide. too bad they winning tho.

[zoom17]

Lebron>Kobe

[SexSymbol]

If you lose more than you win you can't be in the top 10, just can't. Winning is the only thing that matters as you play the game just to win, not for something else, so you have to judge players by winning and leading others to winning.

[SexSymbol]

Kobe's Finals stats are garbage. Worse than LeBron's. :roll:
No, they are not, what the hell are you smoking

[K Xerxes]

If you lose more than you win you can't be in the top 10, just can't. Winning is the only thing that matters as you play the game just to win, not for something else, so you have to judge players by winning and leading others to winning.

Apart from Russell, every top 10 player has lost more than they have won. What are you talking about?

[dubeta]

People saying Kobe is better than LeBron, should also say Horry> Kobe

Just on stats alone LeBron is so much better than Kobe its not even funny

[PsychoBe]

Apart from Russell, every top 10 player has lost more than they have won. What are you talking about?

he's talking about the finals.


People saying Kobe is better than LeBron, should also say Horry> Kobe

Just on stats alone LeBron is so much better than Kobe its not even funny

you know horry isn't even remotely on kobe's level and i'm not sure why you want to compare someone like bran with 4 finals appearances to someone who has almost double with 7.

[K Xerxes]

he's talking about the finals.

I know, and it's stupid.

[iggy>]

Kobe, the guy who was carried to 4 out of his 5 titles. The guy with 1 regular season mvp? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Keno]

he's talking about the finals.



kobe and jordan lost in the 1st round more than lebron, so therefore they suck.

[DFish24]

Lebron stays in the 11-15 range with another finals loss. He around Jerry West territory.

[Cocaine80s]

Has MJ ever had steak dinner with Lebron? Real recognizes real. Only ish who attracts a younger immature demographic has the audacity to put lebron ahead of kobe
Lebron trained with MJ when he was a high schooler. I wouldnt doubt they had dinner as well :oldlol:

[knicksman]

lebron is a fraud because of stats just like robertson. But hes impact as shown by adjusted +/- in the playoffs with star teammates is a joke compared to kobe(+3 compared to +10). Yet still idiots on here believe the iversons, marburys are winners on this league because of their stats. LOL

[kureyşi-gospurs]

Heat fans on major damage control right now. Apparently its okay to lose in at the biggest stage in professional basketball. Its okay to quit on your team over and over again, as long as you win sometimes. :rolleyes:

Dude he ain't even 30 yet and has won when given the right conditions (ignore Cleveland era).

[stanlove1111]

Dude he ain't even 30 yet and has won when given the right conditions (ignore Cleveland era).


No don't ignore the Can era..Lebron led an awful team in Cleveland to be title contenders every year..Just as impressive as winning a title with Shaq and a loaded Laker team.

[NumberSix]

Has MJ ever had steak dinner with Lebron? Real recognizes real. Only ish who attracts a younger immature demographic has the audacity to put lebron ahead of kobe
What the fυck is "steak dinner"? When did dinner become a extra separate category when you eat steak? Is there a "burrito dinner" or "fish dinner"?

[kennethgriffin]

if you have a losing finals record and only 2 rings. you cant be considered better than guys like kobe or jordan.. sorry


especially when one of them is a lock out season. and the other is looked at as a lucky shot title by a team mate

[Marchesk]

What the fυck is "steak dinner"? When did dinner become a extra separate category when you eat steak? Is there a "burrito dinner" or "fish dinner"?

This:

http://37.media.tumblr.com/i2dw5nf19jgvlzl05Anedr1Oo1_500.jpg

[Hey Yo]

if you have a losing finals record and only 2 rings. you cant be considered better than guys like kobe or jordan.. sorry


especially when one of them is a lock out season. and the other is looked at as a lucky shot title by a team mate
Well we know that Kobe won't have a losing record because his Finals days are over. So that means he's 2-1 in the Finals as the leader with 2 rings and 2FMVP.

The same record as LeBron as the leader of Cleveland and since 2012 in Miami. There's a great chance that Lebron passes Kobe in rings.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It's a good thing the Pacers, Clippers and Thunder didn't make the finals this year. It would have been a huge blow to their legacies if they lost. Popovich should be fired if the Spurs lose this finals. He would have been better off losing to the mavs in round 1

[Prometheus]

Ranking for how well a team can do in any given NBA season:

1. Win the championship
2. Lose in the finals
3. Lose in the conference finals
4. Lose in the conference semi-finals
5. Lose in the first round
6. Miss the playoffs

It's like you think Olympic athletes would be better off not medaling than winning a silver. Translation: you are dumb.

[kennethgriffin]

Ranking for how well a team can do in any given NBA season:

1. Win the championship
2. Lose in the finals
3. Lose in the conference finals
4. Lose in the conference semi-finals
5. Lose in the first round
6. Miss the playoffs

It's like you think Olympic athletes would be better off not medaling than winning a silver. Translation: you are dumb.


in every position a player is put in. he is expected to win more often than he loses


if a team is good enough to make the finals. it is good enough to compete for a title. if that player loses in that certain situation more often than he wins. then he is not utilizing his team well

a great player should make the playoffs more often than not if he has a good enough team

if a players team is good enough to battle for titles.. it is expected that they battle for titles

whatever is expected of someone should be the outcome more often than not in any particular situation


if a guy is on a team thats always good enough to be in the finals. we expect results


theres a reason 9 of the top 10 players have winning finals records... the one exception being wilt chamberlain due to an extreme circumstance of playing during the biggest celtics dynasty era. well there is no all decade dynasty standing in lebrons way. HIS team is built for the all decade dynasty.


so yes. a losing finals record is embarrassing

just like carmelo's 1st round streak is embarrassing. melo's been on teams that should have won a 1st round atleast more often than not.

its the bar you set for yourself. if you fall under it. you're failing

[Keno]

Well we know that Kobe won't have a losing record because his Finals days are over. So that means he's 2-1 in the Finals as the leader with 2 rings and 2FMVP.

The same record as LeBron as the leader of Cleveland and since 2012 in Miami. There's a great chance that Lebron passes Kobe in rings.

technically, the way kobe lost the lakers the finals in 2004, you can consider him the #1 option on that team too. so 2-2 in the finals as the #1 option. but using kenneth's logic, 2010 finals he got bailed out by a lucky ron artest 3 after shooting 6-24, so he should be 1-3 in the finals with a losing record.

[Prometheus]

in every position a player is put in. he is expected to win more often than he loses


if a team is good enough to make the finals. it is good enough to compete for a title. if that player loses in that certain situation more often than he wins. then he is not utilizing his team well

a great player should make the playoffs more often than not if he has a good enough team

if a players team is good enough to battle for titles.. it is expected that they battle for titles

whatever is expected of someone should be the outcome more often than not in any particular situation


if a guy is on a team thats always good enough to be in the finals. we expect results


theres a reason 9 of the top 10 players have winning finals records... the one exception being wilt chamberlain due to an extreme circumstance of playing during the biggest celtics dynasty era. well there is no all decade dynasty standing in lebrons way. HIS team is built for the all decade dynasty.


so yes. a losing finals record is embarrassing

just like carmelo's 1st round streak is embarrassing. melo's been on teams that should have won a 1st round atleast more often than not.

its the bar you set for yourself. if you fall under it. you're failing


If that's your argument, then obviously 2007 doesn't count and IF Miami loses this year then it would be 2/4, not 2/5.

In other words... nope.

[kennethgriffin]

technically, the way kobe lost the lakers the finals in 2004, you can consider him the #1 option on that team too. so 2-2 in the finals as the #1 option. but using kenneth's logic, 2010 finals he got bailed out by a lucky ron artest 3 after shooting 6-24, so he should be 1-3 in the finals with a losing record.

kobe was the #1 option on the 2001 and 2002 lakers aswell..

he lead the lakers in FGA's

shaq won finals mvp but they were kobes teams. he was the main offensive option

and he was their main play maker


kobe was a leader on 4 world title teams according to keno...

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

If that's your argument, then obviously 2007 doesn't count and IF Miami loses this year then it would be 2/4, not 2/5.

In other words... nope.


if a teams in the finals.. its expected to compete at the highest level

sorry..


2 for 5

[Hey Yo]

technically, the way kobe lost the lakers the finals in 2004, you can consider him the #1 option on that team too. so 2-2 in the finals as the #1 option. but using kenneth's logic, 2010 finals he got bailed out by a lucky ron artest 3 after shooting 6-24, so he should be 1-3 in the finals with a losing record.
Yes, very true. Thanks for adding more facts to the discussion.

[Prometheus]

if a teams in the finals.. its expected to compete at the highest level

sorry..


2 for 5

This is the part where you're obviously trolling and the argument loses its appeal. But "sorry"? Don't apologize to me, you didn't do anything wrong. If anything I should be apologizing to such a notorious troll for expecting a rational debate. So... my bad.

[Keno]

kobe was the #1 option on the 2001 and 2002 lakers aswell..

he lead the lakers in FGA's

shaq won finals mvp but they were kobes teams. he was the main offensive option

and he was their main play maker


kobe was a leader on 4 world title teams according to keno...

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

2001
kobe: 29/5
shaq: 31/16

2002:
kobe: 26/6
shaq: 29/13

nice try tho. regardless of how many times kobe chucked more than shaq, shaq's numbers were better. the next two seasons kobe chucks a mountain of bricks trying to be the #1 option and the lakers lose. coincidence i think not.

[Hey Yo]

If that's your argument, then obviously 2007 doesn't count and IF Miami loses this year then it would be 2/4, not 2/5.

In other words... nope.
2011 doesn't count cause it was still Wades team. James is 2-1 in the Finals as the leader. If they lose this year he'll be 2-2. More Finals appearances than Kobe's 3

[Keno]

2011 doesn't count cause it was still Wades team. James is 2-1 in the Finals as the leader. If they lose this year he'll be 2-2. More Finals appearances than Kobe's 3

true that. wade and lebron met after the 2011 finals and wade told him this is your team now, we need you to take us to the promise land.

[freshperry]

Has MJ ever had steak dinner with Lebron? Real recognizes real. Only ish who attracts a younger immature demographic has the audacity to put lebron ahead of kobe

Maybe because Kobe had a lot of free time while Lebron was busy playing in the finals 4x in a row?

[irondarts]

Just a reminder - LeBron led this starting 5 to 50 wins and the Finals in 2007:

PG - Larry Hughes
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - LeBron James
PF - Drew Gooden
C - Zydrunas Illgauskas

When Kobe had a team this bad they lost 48 games and he demanded a trade.

[kennethgriffin]

2001
kobe: 29/5
shaq: 31/16

2002:
kobe: 26/6
shaq: 29/13

nice try tho. regardless of how many times kobe chucked more than shaq, shaq's numbers were better. the next two seasons kobe chucks a mountain of bricks trying to be the #1 option and the lakers lose. coincidence i think not.


but shaqs numbers were better in 2004. you said it was kobes team cause he lead in shots

kobe lead the 2001 and 2002 lakers in shots aswell



pick a criteria and stop whoring your agenda

either kobes 2-1 in the finlas as leader. 5 out of 7 as leader/co leader, or 4 out of 6 as FGA leader.

pick one ya bum lol

[kennethgriffin]

Just a reminder - LeBron led this starting 5 to 50 wins and the Finals in 2007:

PG - Larry Hughes
SG - Sasha Pavlovic
SF - LeBron James
PF - Drew Gooden
C - Zydrunas Illgauskas

When Kobe had a team this bad they lost 48 games and he demanded a trade.


east lol

put kobes smush/kwame team in the 2007 east and they make allot of noise too

[Big#50]

Lebron is the better player. He is a once in an era player.
Kobe makes nice shots. Kobe needs bigs. Kobe only impacts the game with his scoring. His defensive team selections are a joke. He was never a top three defender at his position. Never. Not even in his athletic prime.
Lebron is top five all time. Kobe is just outside my top ten.

[Mr Exlax]

If he ever reaches 3 FMVPs, that's gonna be better than anything the Bean has accomplished. Couple that with the number of MVP seasons he's had vs the number Kobe has then it's pretty clear LeBron is better and has had a better career. Regular season MVPs are pretty damn difficult to get. FMVPs you just play best on your team over a 7 game stretch.

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron is the better player. He is a once in an era player.
Kobe makes nice shots. Kobe needs bigs. Kobe only impacts the game with his scoring. His defensive team selections are a joke. He was never a top three defender at his position. Never. Not even in his athletic prime.
Lebron is top five all time. Kobe is just outside my top ten.


aww you're so kind





















all time record 11 time 1st team all nba

all time record 9 time 1st team all defense

all time record most consecutive allstar games

all time record 12 three pointers in one game

all time record most 50+ win teams beatin in playoffs by a HOF'r ( 24 )

all time record most game winning shots

2nd most points scored in a game

4th all time in regular season points

3rd all time in playoff points

2000 nba champion ( 21/5/5 playoff average )

2001 nba champion ( 30/7/6 playoff average )

2002 nba champion ( 27/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2010 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba finals mvp

2010 nba finals mvp

2008 nba mvp

2002 nba allstar game mvp

2007 nba allstar game mvp

2009 nba allstar game mvp

2010 nba allstar game mvp

career 28ppg average as starter ( 25/5/5 career )

4 straight 50 point games

only player to outscore another team by himself

[red1]

He could get swept in the finals this year and he would still be better than kobe. GOAT-status? That is already out of reach

[Kblaze8855]

Ranking for how well a team can do in any given NBA season:

1. Win the championship
2. Lose in the finals
3. Lose in the conference finals
4. Lose in the conference semi-finals
5. Lose in the first round
6. Miss the playoffs

It's like you think Olympic athletes would be better off not medaling than winning a silver. Translation: you are dumb.

Exactly. Every single one of these topics suggesting its better to lose early than make the finals and lose should be closed on sight. And perhaps they will be. Its one of the dumbest arguments ive ever seen and so clearly wrong its hard to believe every person making it isnt "trolling".

[SwayDizzle]

but shaqs numbers were better in 2004. you said it was kobes team cause he lead in shots

kobe lead the 2001 and 2002 lakers in shots aswell



pick a criteria and stop whoring your agenda

either kobes 2-1 in the finlas as leader. 5 out of 7 as leader/co leader, or 4 out of 6 as FGA leader.

pick one ya bum lol
dat ether:bowdown:

[kennethgriffin]

Exactly. Every single one of these topics suggesting its better to lose early than make the finals and lose should be closed on sight. And perhaps they will be. Its one of the dumbest arguments ive ever seen and so clearly wrong its hard to believe every person making it isnt "trolling".



heres the thing

if a team isnt good. it doesnt get far

if a team is good. it goes far

its about what you do when you get the right pieces around you

if you're always on a team thats good enough to make the finals. but you're coming up short more often than you succeed. then you're not doing what is expected of you


if kobe made it to the finals those 3 years and didnt win 2 of them. it would have been an epic failure. because he had a team good enough to be in the finals. so when you're facing another finals team. its almost the same expectations as one would have in a 5seed vs 4seed matchup


its about competition. and if you cant win against somewhat even competition. then theres something wrong


lebron is 5-6 all time in his playoff series career vs 50+ win teams... he doesnt do well against good teams.

lebron sucks.. deal with it

losing finals record

[Kblaze8855]

No...it would not be an epic failure for Kobe to win 1 of 3 titles. Winning one title....is all it takes to never be a failure again. You won or you didnt. how many times you won and how often you lost in ____ round just starts to shuffle you around the ranks of winners. You lead a title team...youre a winner. All there is to it. The rest is just hate and idiocy.

[Mr Exlax]

By ISH logic, if a rookie wins FMVP and retires then he's the greatest of all time for never losing right?

[red1]

No...it would not be an epic failure for Kobe to win 1 of 3 titles. Winning one title....is all it takes to never be a failure again. You won or you didnt. how many times you won and how often you lost in ____ round just starts to shuffle you around the ranks of winners. You lead a title team...youre a winner. All there is to it. The rest is just hate and idiocy.
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1523255/tumblr_m7diig61WG1qe6nyz_medium.gif

[red1]

By ISH logic, if a rookie wins FMVP and retires then he's the greatest of all time for never losing right?
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwobmpkPmB1r6aoq4o1_400.gif

[kennethgriffin]

No...it would not be an epic failure for Kobe to win 1 of 3 titles. Winning one title....is all it takes to never be a failure again. You won or you didnt. how many times you won and how often you lost in ____ round just starts to shuffle you around the ranks of winners. You lead a title team...youre a winner. All there is to it. The rest is just hate and idiocy.


losing more often than you win against somewhat even competition in the playoffs = failure

the great ones win when theyre put in a position to win.............thats what makes a player great


ceasing the moment. if you're always choking instead of just losing to way better teams ( like a 8 seed vs 1 seed )... then theres something wrong with your ability to win under pressure

pressure moments have always been a criticism about lebron his whole life.

a losing record against 50+ win teams ( when hes been on a 50+ win team nearly his entire career )

a losing record in the finals ( if it happens )

these arent coincidences

its no coincidence that ray had to hit that 3 to save lebrons life either

its no coincidence lebron had to collude.

this is his track record


a train wreck of failure

and yes it would have been a failure had kobe went 1 for 3 ( and didnt already have 3 other titles in his back pocket )

it doesnt seem as bad to you cause he would be 4 for 7.. thats just kobes greatness disguising what in other situations would be an epic failure

[red1]

heres the thing

if a team isnt good. it doesnt get far

if a team is good. it goes far

its about what you do when you get the right pieces around you

if you're always on a team thats good enough to make the finals. but you're coming up short more often than you succeed. then you're not doing what is expected of you


if kobe made it to the finals those 3 years and didnt win 2 of them. it would have been an epic failure. because he had a team good enough to be in the finals. so when you're facing another finals team. its almost the same expectations as one would have in a 5seed vs 4seed matchup


its about competition. and if you cant win against somewhat even competition. then theres something wrong


lebron is 5-6 all time in his playoff series career vs 50+ win teams... he doesnt do well against good teams.

lebron sucks.. deal with it

losing finals record



http://www.lauryndoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Uh_wtf_gif.gif

[Kblaze8855]

I dont consider you stupid. Ive read enough of your serious discussions that I can say that. But you do a good job of acting stupid when it suits you.

Emotions run high around the finals so I tend to ignore a lot more than normal...otherwise this topic would be long gone.

Any other week of the year.....gone.

Finals week....proceed without me.

Im gonna eat some beef jerky and see who wants to go bowling.

[kennethgriffin]

I dont consider you stupid. Ive read enough of your serious discussions that I can say that. But you do a good job of acting stupid when it suits you.

Emotions run high around the finals so I tend to ignore a lot more than normal...otherwise this topic would be long gone.

Any other week of the year.....gone.

Finals week....proceed without me.


if i'm wrong. why does anyone associated with the top 10 all time or argued for it always have a winning finals record







#1 Jordan ( winning record )
#2 Kareem ( winning record )
#3 Russell ( winning record )
#4 Magic ( winning record )
#5 wilt
#6 Kobe ( winning record )
#7 Bird ( winning record )
#8 Shaq ( winning record )
#9 Duncan ( winning record )
#10 Hakeem ( winning record )
#11 Lebron
#12 Oscar ( winning record )

wilts the only other one.. and its due to him holding nearly every single nba record...

lebrons the only other guy if heat lose this year. why? lebron isnt playing in an era with a 60's celtics 7-8 HOF'r lineup claiming 11 out of 12 titles


any title team these days is beatable.. no excuses

[red1]

if i'm wrong. why does anyone associated with the top 10 all time or argued for it always have a winning finals record







#1 Jordan ( winning record )
#2 Kareem ( winning record )
#3 Russell ( winning record )
#4 Magic ( winning record )
#5 wilt
#6 Kobe ( winning record )
#7 Bird ( winning record )
#8 Shaq ( winning record )
#9 Duncan ( winning record )
#10 Hakeem ( winning record )
#11 Lebron
#12 Oscar ( winning record )



lebrons the only other guy if heat lose this year. why? lebron isnt playing in an era with a 60's celtics 7-8 HOF'r lineup claiming 11 out of 12 titles


any title team these days is beatable.. no excuses
how about these records and stats. whatchu think kenny-boy? most overrated player of all time?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IoFWPA1eFhA/UpjgvPckNOI/AAAAAAAAAHo/QdQMTd5lEJk/s640/Kobe%27s+Records.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

how about these records and stats? whatchu think kenny-boy?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IoFWPA1eFhA/UpjgvPckNOI/AAAAAAAAAHo/QdQMTd5lEJk/s640/Kobe%27s+Records.jpg


take the good with the bad



all time record 11 time 1st team all nba

all time record 9 time 1st team all defense

all time record most consecutive allstar games

all time record 12 three pointers in one game

all time record most 50+ win teams beatin in playoffs by a HOF'r ( 24 )

all time record most game winning shots

2nd most points scored in a game

4th all time in regular season points

3rd all time in playoff points

2nd most 60 point games

3rd most 50 point games

3rd most 40 point games

2000 nba champion ( 21/5/5 playoff average )

2001 nba champion ( 30/7/6 playoff average )

2002 nba champion ( 27/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2010 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba finals mvp

2010 nba finals mvp

2008 nba mvp

2002 nba allstar game mvp

2007 nba allstar game mvp

2009 nba allstar game mvp

2010 nba allstar game mvp

career 28ppg average as starter ( 25/5/5 career )

4 straight 50 point games

only player to outscore another team by himself

[kennethgriffin]

wilts excuse for being in the top 10 with a losing finals record and only 2 rings is


- 100 point game
- 50ppg season
- 100's of nba records
- changing dozens of nba rules


whats lebrons excuse? why should we include him? cause he has espn mvps lol

bill simmons can vote for lebron every year and stack his mvp trophy case. i dont care. i go by what i see

[Kblaze8855]

Id like to add something about the above.....

I hate incorrect facts being presented as a "Gotcha!" piece of evidence.

Im not looking into it....but I find it unlikely Kobe or anyone else missed more shots in a finals than Rick Barry in 67.

He was missing 20 shots every night. And it was a 6 game series. He went like 14-44 one game.

If im wrong let me know....but I dont think I am. I cant see Kobe missing 20-25 shots every night in a series. Or enough in 08 in 7 to catch barry in his 6. IF he did....my bad.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron having a losing record in the finals should impact where he ultimately ranks, but it shouldn't be used to make broad statements about his play.

Unless it's a 2011 situation...then it should hurt him.

Meh...these discussions get too complicated. It's not really that hard.

the reason Jordan won his 6 titles and was undefeated in the finals was because of his ability as a player. the titles were a reflection of that. if he was a lesser player...he probably loses 2 of the titles...simple as that.

If Lebron was a better player...2007 and 2011 don't go down the way they did...hence, if Lebron had won titles those years in those circumstances...his ranking as a basketball player should reflect that.

Part of being a great basketball is sustained excellence in big moments/games/series. Part of being a great basketball player is not melting down on the biggest stage like Lebron did in 07 and 11...or game 5 in 2010...or even game 1 in these finals (that might ultimately cost the Heat the series...we don't know yet)

The point is that it all goes into a big formula when trying to accurately place a player in history. What I often see here and I don't understand...is that people think a players' ability is just so easy to judge without seeing how said player performs in a variety of circumstances throughout their careers.

This goes back to the idiots claiming that Durant was better than Kobe ever was because of a regular season. To that I say..."told you so"...and please stop thinking the regular season matters half as much. The games are different in the playoffs. You find out the truth about players.

And in relation to Lebron...it's going to very hard, to date at least, to say he's better than some guys in history if he ends up being 2 for 5 in the finals with at least 2 horrific performances. Because a player for sure better than Kobe or Hakeem or Bird...simply doesn't lose in 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, and 14 the way Lebron will have if he loses this series. I think people need to reflect on this...

Now, that doesn't mean there isn't more time in the future for stuff to vault Lebron higher, but at this moment...to date...if the Heat lose this series. It should matter for Lebron's place in history.

No, it's not better to lose early at all, but that isn't the point I see being made here to begin with.

[red1]

take the good with the bad



all time record 11 time 1st team all nba

all time record 9 time 1st team all defense

all time record most consecutive allstar games

all time record 12 three pointers in one game

all time record most 50+ win teams beatin in playoffs by a HOF'r ( 24 )

all time record most game winning shots

2nd most points scored in a game

4th all time in regular season points

3rd all time in playoff points

2nd most 60 point games

3rd most 50 point games

3rd most 40 point games

2000 nba champion ( 21/5/5 playoff average )

2001 nba champion ( 30/7/6 playoff average )

2002 nba champion ( 27/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2010 nba champion ( 30/6/5 playoff average )

2009 nba finals mvp

2010 nba finals mvp

2008 nba mvp

2002 nba allstar game mvp

2007 nba allstar game mvp

2009 nba allstar game mvp

2010 nba allstar game mvp

career 28ppg average as starter ( 25/5/5 career )

4 straight 50 point games

only player to outscore another team by himself
What an embarrassing fanboy you are. All-star game mvps? Only player to outscore another team by himself?

Yes these accolades are all very impressive but it always comes back to dickriding bean with you. Use your own logic you goof, take the good with the bad. If a player loses in the finals while playing well then how could that possibly be a negative thing.

[Hey Yo]

if i'm wrong. why does anyone associated with the top 10 all time or argued for it always have a winning finals record







#1 Jordan ( winning record ) had great help and coaching
#2 Kareem ( winning record ) see above
#3 Russell ( winning record ) see above + it happened at an early age.
#4 Magic ( winning record ) see above + that happened his rookie year and got even better help as his career went on.
#5 wilt
#6 Kobe ( winning record ) had great help and coaching + a top 3 center in the history of the game + demanded to be on the 2nd best franchise in NBA history.
#7 Bird ( winning record ) had great help and coaching
#8 Shaq ( winning record ) see above
#9 Duncan ( winning record ) see above
#10 Hakeem ( winning record ) played unstoppable ball those 2yrs
#11 Lebron carried shitty teammates for 7 years for one of the worst franchises in NBA history. No legit free agents have ever signed there + carrying a shitty coach for years
#12 Oscar ( winning record ) Oscar is 1-1 in the Finals. Do your homework next time.

wilts the only other one.. and its due to him holding nearly every single nba record...

lebrons the only other guy if heat lose this year. why? lebron isnt playing in an era with a 60's celtics 7-8 HOF'r lineup claiming 11 out of 12 titles


any title team these days is beatable.. no excuses
See above.

[red1]

wilts excuse for being in the top 10 with a losing finals record and only 2 rings is


- 100 point game
- 50ppg season
- 100's of nba records
- changing dozens of nba rules


whats lebrons excuse? why should we include him? cause he has espn mvps lol

bill simmons can vote for lebron every year and stack his mvp trophy case. i dont care. i go by what i see
This is why you will always be a joke. You use all star game mvps in kobe's favor when trying to create a case for GOAT status yet you deride regular season mvps let alone two championships and finals mvps. You are a comedian kenny boy :oldlol:

[Mr Exlax]

This is why you will always be a joke. You use all star game mvps in kobe's favor when trying to create a case for GOAT status yet you deride regular season mvps let alone two championships and finals mvps. You are a comedian kenny boy :oldlol:

Wait, he's serious about that? Holy shit lol

[kennethgriffin]

This is why you will always be a joke. You use all star game mvps in kobe's favor when trying to create a case for GOAT status yet you deride regular season mvps let alone two championships and finals mvps. You are a comedian kenny boy :oldlol:

i never said they were worth allot. i just listed them. take them for what their worth

theres 20 other things i listed. yet you can only pick on asg mvps.. it shows my list has you shook

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[DFish24]

Bran stans gettin killed in this thread:roll:

[Mr. Jabbar]

lets not forget he could be 1-5 without the greatest shot of all time (not by him btw)

[DFish24]

A finals loss to an ancient Duncan/Ginobili might kick Bran out of the Top 15.

[ThePhantomCreep]

No don't ignore the Can era..Lebron led an awful team in Cleveland to be title contenders every year..Just as impressive as winning a title with Shaq and a loaded Laker team.

50 win teams beaten during the LeBron Cavs era: ONE, a 53-win team

The 2014 Blazers accomplished as much just this year. How were they title contenders again?

[red1]

Wait, he's serious about that? Holy shit lol
Look at his list man. The guy is a joke. Let me put it this way. If kobe had 4 mvps all of a sudden the mvp would be the most crucial aspect of GOAT rankings. Since kobe only has 1 then it is "espn award blah blah blah"