PDA

View Full Version : Why Lance Stephenson Will Be Worth Every Penny



Dro
06-06-2014, 09:52 PM
http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/233636/Why-Lance-Stephenson-Will-Be-Worth-Every-Penny

By: Jonathan Tjarks

Lance Stephenson became a lightning rod for criticism in this year’s Eastern Conference Finals, as if it were his fault the Indiana Pacers didn’t space the floor, never upgraded their bench and were relying on big men who couldn’t compete on both sides of the ball. While some of his on-court antics were a little over the line, it was all in good fun. Far more important is what a special basketball player he is, the type of talent that is rarely available in free agency.

Still only 23 years old, Stephenson has turned himself into one of the most well-rounded shooting guards in the NBA. At 6’5 230 with a 6’10 wingspan, he’s an elite athlete who can match up with all three perimeter positions. He can create his own shot off the dribble, stretch the floor out to the three-point line, create shots for his teammates and clean the glass at a high level. He averaged 14 points, 7 rebounds, 4.5 assists and 1 steal a game on 45% shooting in this year’s playoffs.

The only thing holding him back from stardom is opportunity. In the regular season, he took only 11 shots a game and had a usage rating of 19.4, which was tied for third highest in the starting line-up with Roy Hibbert. Paul George and David West were the first two options in Indiana - Lance never really got to show what he could do in their system. It’s simple math. What’s going to happen when a guy who shoots 49% from the field at 11 shots gets 15-17?

Even if his field goal percentage went down with more responsibility, it would have to crater for him not to be at 20+ points a game as a primary option. George took 17 shots a game while shooting 42% from the field and people said Lance was the selfish player. The reality was that he was the far better decision-maker and playmaker of the two - he lead the Pacers in assists and had an assist-to-turnover ratio of 1.7, with George lagging far behind at 1.25.

Those are the things you have to look at when projecting a younger player into a bigger role. Two years ago, James Harden averaged 16 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists a game on 43% shooting in the playoffs for the Oklahoma City Thunder. Just like Stephenson, Harden excelled in the role he was forced to play on the team that drafted him, but he was ready for a much bigger role. Don’t mistake opportunity for talent, especially not with a 23-year-old.

That’s what makes Stephenson such a fascinating player this summer - he’s an elite talent who is an unrestricted free agent at 23. Because he was a second-round pick, he doesn’t have the same type of restrictions on his contract as guys like Gordon Hayward, Greg Monroe and Eric Bledsoe. To get one of those guys this off-season, a team would have to give up a king’s ransom in assets. The only thing Stephenson is going to cost you is money.

Adding an All-Star level talent in free agency, particularly one who can improve your team on both sides of the ball, is the quickest way to jump-start a franchise. For the most part, you have to get those types of players in trades, if you are going to get them at all. Since the vast majority of elite talent is taken in the first round, they don’t hit the market until their third contract in the NBA, when they have almost a decade’s worth of games on their legs.

That’s why free agency tends to be so dicey - only the best of the best can play at a high level well into their second decade in the NBA. Basketball is a young man’s game, so by the time a guy has reached his early 30’s, he’s well into the decline stage of his career. When a guy is declining from a peak as high as LeBron James, that’s no big deal. For just about everyone else, though, a third contract is paying them for what they were instead of what they will be.

As a rule, older players tend to do two things in the NBA - they get hurt and they get worse. The real gamble in free agency isn’t the young hot-head like Stephenson, it’s an older veteran like Luol Deng. Counting the playoffs, Deng has played over 26,000 minutes and 725 games in the NBA, most of those in Tom Thibodeau’s manic, high-intensity system. That’s an awful lot of miles already on his body and that’s before he loses a step as he moves into his 30’s.

Stephenson, in contrast, is only on his second contract in the league, so you are signing him for the prime of his career. If he doesn’t get any better, you are getting a two-way starter in his mid 20’s and a guy whose already proven he can be a key contributor on a 55+ win team. If he improves, you are getting the chance to buy low on one of the elite young players in the NBA. This is a guy who can match up physically with LeBron James and Dwyane Wade.

There’s only a small handful of players in the league you can say that about and none of them are going to be on the market anytime soon. Stephenson comes with a lot of baggage, but it’s easier to tone a guy down than to crank a guy up. And for all the talk of what he does off-the-court, he’s shown he will put the time in the gym to improve as a player. He shot 21% from three in college - not many guys turn themselves into good shooters once they are in the league.

There are some holier-than-thou folks in the media and around the league who would “never” take a chance on a rough around the edges guy like Lance Stephenson, as if they were perfect when they were 23 years old. Who knows what Stephenson will be when he is 27-28, but the odds are he will be more mature than what he is now. Just because you didn’t show any emotional growth when you were in your mid 20’s - don’t assume that holds true for everyone else.

Thoughts?

navy
06-06-2014, 09:54 PM
Depends. What if some retarded GM offers him a max/near max contract? Not worth it at all.

The Pacers should keep him at a reasonable price though. He's not a scrub and has a good outlook.

bigkingsfan
06-06-2014, 09:54 PM
I hope a bad team signs him, hilarity will ensue.

DMV2
06-06-2014, 10:02 PM
I'd give him Manu-type money.

hawksdogsbraves
06-06-2014, 11:03 PM
Lance is a really good player.

But he's a crazy person. A real life crazy person.

Like, this article talks about his stats and his age, but he's an actual lunatic. Like not just a passionate dude, but like a 'this guy could be involved in some insane nightclub-prostitute-gun scandal' dude.

It's pretty much been stated as fact that he is the reason for the Pacers chemistry evaporating around mid-season.

A normal, sane, regular dude with his stats and track record would deserve and get a near-max deal. But Lance is Lance, and Lance is nuts.

Beastmode88
06-06-2014, 11:11 PM
Lance showed up in game 6. PG and Hibbert did not.

el gringos
06-06-2014, 11:28 PM
I heard he so crazy he is either taking a max deal from the pacers or he will go to the Knicks to play pg in the triangle and try to make all that money back in endorsments

GimmeThat
06-07-2014, 12:14 AM
Why Paul George being better only made them had a cheaper roster for sometime and not nessecarily made the team better.

But yes, Lance Stephenson will be worth every penny.

Dr. Cheesesteak
06-07-2014, 12:25 AM
I'd love to see him on the Kings. Imagine Cousins + Reggie Evans + Stephenson on the same team. Good god, that'd rape. Literally and figuratively.

But seriously, Kings are really struggling for an identity, both in terms of play style and attitude. Getting Lance, along w/ Cousins, REvans, Acy, etc would give them a strong, intimidating identity, imo. If Gay opts in, pray a team w/ playoff aspirations would trade for him.

Bosnian Sajo
06-07-2014, 12:50 AM
Go to the Lakers, Kobe would mold him into the Alpha he is.

Nastradamus
06-07-2014, 01:06 AM
Lance will end up being a better player than Harden.

Rameek
06-07-2014, 01:10 AM
How do you know he's a real life crazy person?

He wont get the money his talent probably deserves because he's immature and immaturity is a risky proposition.


Lance is a really good player.

But he's a crazy person. A real life crazy person.

Like, this article talks about his stats and his age, but he's an actual lunatic. Like not just a passionate dude, but like a 'this guy could be involved in some insane nightclub-prostitute-gun scandal' dude.

It's pretty much been stated as fact that he is the reason for the Pacers chemistry evaporating around mid-season.

A normal, sane, regular dude with his stats and track record would deserve and get a near-max deal. But Lance is Lance, and Lance is nuts.

UK2K
06-07-2014, 01:31 AM
Too bad the pacers stupidly inked hibbert to a max deal or they could have a nice team.

AnaheimLakers24
06-07-2014, 03:51 AM
he will sign with la

Im so nba'd out
06-07-2014, 08:04 AM
great read future rep.

shady6121
06-07-2014, 08:05 AM
Imagine having Lance Stephenson and JR Smith on the same team.

BoutPractice
06-07-2014, 08:09 AM
Lance is best used as he is right now: a hypertalented "joker" on a contending team.

Ron Artest too had star talent but you wouldn't go far if you actually gave him the keys to your franchise.

Dro
06-07-2014, 01:26 PM
great read future rep.
:cheers:

Dro
06-07-2014, 01:27 PM
Lance is best used as he is right now: a hypertalented "joker" on a contending team.

Ron Artest too had star talent but you wouldn't go far if you actually gave him the keys to your franchise.
The difference is Lance is a playmaker, Artest is not.......though I love both players.....

longtime lurker
06-07-2014, 01:31 PM
Lance could do well in a setting where he has the ball in his hands all the time, but then again how good is your team when Lance Stephenson is the first option?

step_back
06-07-2014, 01:51 PM
Great post Dro.

I think Lance at the moment would be better off taking a little less money and staying with the Pacers. Perhaps a 2/3 year deal. That way he could improve his game further, get extra playoff experience and potentially win a championship. It would also demonstrate to other GM's around the league that he has a team first mentality and wants to win.

He could then look to get a max deal with improved stock (Currently it's a tad low because of his antics in the playoffs) at 26 years old because he's still young enough to plan and build a team around.

Skies the limit for this kid.

longtime lurker
06-07-2014, 01:55 PM
Can a team offer Lance an Asik/Lin type deal where it's 5,5,15 for 3 years?

Dro
06-07-2014, 02:10 PM
Great post Dro.

I think Lance at the moment would be better off taking a little less money and staying with the Pacers. Perhaps a 2/3 year deal. That way he could improve his game further, get extra playoff experience and potentially win a championship. It would also demonstrate to other GM's around the league that he has a team first mentality and wants to win.

He could then look to get a max deal with improved stock (Currently it's a tad low because of his antics in the playoffs) at 26 years old because he's still young enough to plan and build a team around.

Skies the limit for this kid.
Great post...Agree on all accounts.....

Dro
06-07-2014, 02:11 PM
Can a team offer Lance an Asik/Lin type deal where it's 5,5,15 for 3 years?
They may be, although I'm not sure if Lance would want a deal like that....I'm thinking he would like a little more up front......

Dro
06-07-2014, 02:11 PM
Also, Lance and his agent want to come back to Indiana an Bird and Vogel said they want him back the other day. So now its just a matter of getting the deal done.....But Indiana is Lance' first choice......

kshutts1
06-07-2014, 02:14 PM
I've wanted the Bulls to get him for the past two seasons. I'd offer him 12m a year.

HylianNightmare
06-07-2014, 02:27 PM
12 a year

Dro
06-07-2014, 02:51 PM
Would you guys really offer him 12 per year or maybe offer him a little less and then offer him more for his 3rd contract? I love Lance as much as anybody but I'm not sure if he's earned 12 mil per year.......Now if someone else wants to pay him that, and we have to match it to keep him, then I would because I believe we have to keep him, but I would want it a bit lower...maybe 8-9 million...I think he'd take that......

brantonli
06-07-2014, 03:49 PM
Can a team offer Lance an Asik/Lin type deal where it's 5,5,15 for 3 years?

pretty sure that contract is only for NBA players who were 2nd round picks and only played in the NBA for 2 seasons, so it's a fairly rare situation. Lance has played 4 years already.

JimmyMcAdocious
06-07-2014, 06:13 PM
Market value has to be more than that, no?

Evans got 10+. Iguodala got 12+. Deng was offered 10 and he wanted 12. Lance should be somewhere around there. 10-12.

fiddy
06-07-2014, 06:34 PM
Lance will end up being a better player than Harden.
On the defensive part he already is. Only matter of time to surpass him in offense.

longtime lurker
06-07-2014, 07:41 PM
pretty sure that contract is only for NBA players who were 2nd round picks and only played in the NBA for 2 seasons, so it's a fairly rare situation. Lance has played 4 years already.

Okay good to know. Thanks for the info :cheers:

Dro
06-07-2014, 08:09 PM
pretty sure that contract is only for NBA players who were 2nd round picks and only played in the NBA for 2 seasons, so it's a fairly rare situation. Lance has played 4 years already.
Did not know this.......Thanks...:cheers:

chocolatethunder
06-07-2014, 08:34 PM
How do you know he's a real life crazy person?

He wont get the money his talent probably deserves because he's immature and immaturity is a risky proposition.
I dunno, he seems like a great guy.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=5467630&src=desktop

UK2K
06-07-2014, 09:31 PM
I heard on local radio that the Pacers should be willing to match up to 4/32 or so, so around 7.75-8m or year, which is about what he should get.

Someone will offer him 12 though if they can. And the Pacers will be stuck in another Hibbert situation (although if they matched 12m they would have to gut their roster).

UK2K
06-07-2014, 09:32 PM
On the defensive part he already is. Only matter of time to surpass him in offense.
How many players averaged 25,6,5 shooting 61%TS?

Ill wait.

Then youre telling me Lance could hit that mark?

poido123
06-07-2014, 09:37 PM
Is he worth 10 mill a year? Bulls could offer him that, would Pacers match?

SHAQisGOAT
06-07-2014, 09:45 PM
12 a year

Yup, I'd say about the same.

Legends66NBA7
06-07-2014, 10:01 PM
Pacers will probably overpay for him. I don't think Stephenson's worth $12 million a year. He's probably worth under $10 million a year.

irondarts
06-07-2014, 10:05 PM
5/40 would be the best deal

He'll probably get 4/48 though.

Dro
06-07-2014, 10:24 PM
I dunno, he seems like a great guy.

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=5467630&src=desktop
People still bringing up the same old 4 year old story...If this is all you got, Lance has really improved more than I thought....:applause:

But haters gonna hate....:confusedshrug:

Dro
06-07-2014, 10:25 PM
Is he worth 10 mill a year? Bulls could offer him that, would Pacers match?
I think they would.......

UK2K
06-07-2014, 10:27 PM
I think they would.......
Turner and Scola would have to go correct? And maybe one other non-min player?

rhowen4
06-07-2014, 11:05 PM
I like LeBron and I would love to see what Lance could do when given the keys. I agree with the sentiment that he can mature as well. He's young.

poido123
06-08-2014, 12:04 AM
I think they would.......


Ok.

Even so, I don't think Lance is the answer to our problem.

We need a legit star/superstar to pair with Rose, one that scores at will like Carmelo.

GimmeThat
06-08-2014, 12:05 AM
Is he worth 10 mill a year? Bulls could offer him that, would Pacers match?


for 4 years he probably is. And I think the FO should decide on how the contract is structured after speaking with him.

If they feel confident that he is a player who is mature for his age and would develope over time, I would actually front load his contract. Which allows the FO to build around him with other players.

If they don't feel as confident about it, and think maybe he has reached his potential (which probably still justifies the money he's going to be paid with) I would do the traditional contract, which at the least gives the FO room to view it as an expiring contract if the team isn't in the position they hope for 4 years from now and doesn't view him as apart of the long term plan.

Of course you can always do a flat 4/40 type deal, which in my opinion actually doesn't motivate players that much, because it's like telling him, here's your ceiling right now, and no matter what happens in the next 3 years, it's your ceiling. (similar to Flip Saunders telling Kevin Love not to complain)

Probably reading too much into it all, but overall, I think he's an 8-10 mil type player, and if he accepts anything less than 10, it shows that he wants to compete in the playoffs. Not saying he can't even if he took more than 10, but there's only that many teams that are willing to go deep over the salary cap.

poido123
06-08-2014, 12:08 AM
for 4 years he probably is. And I think the FO should decide on how the contract is structured after speaking with him.

If they feel confident that he is a player who is mature for his age and would develope over time, I would actually front load his contract. Which allows the FO to build around him with other players.

If they don't feel as confident about it, and think maybe he has reached his potential (which probably still justifies the money he's going to be paid with) I would do the traditional contract, which at the least gives the FO room to view it as an expiring contract if the team isn't in the position they hope for 4 years from now and doesn't view him as apart of the long term plan.

Of course you can always do a flat 4/40 type deal, which in my opinion actually doesn't motivate players that much, because it's like telling him, here's your ceiling right now, and no matter what happens in the next 3 years, it's your ceiling. (similar to Flip Saunders telling Kevin Love not to complain)

Probably reading too much into it all, but overall, I think he's an 8-10 mil type player, and if he accepts anything less than 10, it shows that he wants to compete in the playoffs. Not saying he can't even if he took more than 10, but there's only that many teams that are willing to go deep over the salary cap.


He's probably in the best possible situation where he is now.

Pacers need to add a floor general that can direct the team around on the court paticularly offensively and add a coach who can draw up actual plays out of a timeout and utilise the weapons they have properly.

GimmeThat
06-08-2014, 01:51 AM
He's probably in the best possible situation where he is now.

Pacers need to add a floor general that can direct the team around on the court paticularly offensively and add a coach who can draw up actual plays out of a timeout and utilise the weapons they have properly.

there's still 3 more years left on George Hill's contract isn't there?

this would mean they trade away Hill and just use a 1st rounder to pair with Lance Stephenson.

EricGordon23
06-08-2014, 02:00 AM
there's still 3 more years left on George Hill's contract isn't there?

this would mean they trade away Hill and just use a 1st rounder to pair with Lance Stephenson.

No one will take hill's contract

Although to be fair I never thought anyone would take Joe Johnsons contract

Also I see detroit offering him a near max if they don't keep monroe

poido123
06-08-2014, 02:30 AM
No one will take hill's contract

Although to be fair I never thought anyone would take Joe Johnsons contract

Also I see detroit offering him a near max if they don't keep monroe


:eek:

That would be one mentally fragile team.

Jennings, Stevenson, Smith, Drummond core?


No leadership there.

MiseryCityTexas
06-08-2014, 03:02 AM
Luis Scola was an upgrade at the bench. Pacers just didn't know how to use him right. Matter of fact, he should have been starting over David West.

EricGordon23
06-08-2014, 03:11 AM
:eek:

That would be one mentally fragile team.

Jennings, Stevenson, Smith, Drummond core?


No leadership there.

Yeah but the pistons don't usually make the right move.

Maybe under van gundy things will change

kshutts1
06-08-2014, 09:12 AM
Ok.

Even so, I don't think Lance is the answer to our problem.

We need a legit star/superstar to pair with Rose, one that scores at will like Carmelo.
I disagree. I think the Bulls just need someone else that can create their own shot, and for others. Lance fits that need perfectly, particularly once we consider his defensive ability.

Guy has tons of room to grow, he's got attitude and heart, will never back down... he's perfect for a team like the Bulls. Plus, if we're signing him outright, imagine that wing defense with Butler and Stephenson. I'd prefer Butler get traded for better shooting, but even if he's not, Stephenson and a healthy Rose (even at 80% of what he was) instantly makes a title very possible.

hawksdogsbraves
06-08-2014, 01:26 PM
:eek:

That would be one mentally fragile team.

Jennings, Stevenson, Smith, Drummond core?


No leadership there.

That would be the biggest bunch of headcases on one team ever :oldlol:

SVG would probably kill himself

AnaheimLakers24
06-08-2014, 01:28 PM
he will be a laker. cant wait to buy his jersey