Can The 1960s Really Be Considered Modern Basketball?

[Soundwave]

I'll conceed I could be wrong on this, but to me, what we consider the "modern NBA" (and the modern basketball) game doesn't really dawn until the 1970s.

In the 1960s the NBA was a 9-10 team league (total), there were like three or four 7 footers in the entire league *total*.

The US wasn't even an integrated society in the 1950s (where a 60s-era player would've had to have developed), many black players probably slipped through the cracks. What was the college development system like back then? How div 1 schools were even integrated?

In the 1970s with the advent of the ABA merging with the NBA and creating a true coast to coast league, integrated NCAA campuses and more advanced player development ... I think the 70s is really the birth of modern basketball.

Am I wrong to look at the 50s/60s as kind of its own thing?

[LAZERUSS]

Post shot clock era is the "modern era."

[jzek]

No; modern NBA started in the early-80s / mid-80s.

Every accomplishment prior to that is horse sh*t.

[Soundwave]

No; modern NBA started in the early-80s / mid-80s.

Every accomplishment prior to that is horse sh*t.

I don't know if the mid-70s really is all that dissimilar to the 80s to be honest.

Dr. J kinda popularized the notion of the modern perimeter guard/forward by that time for example.

[LAZERUSS]

No; modern NBA started in the early-80s / mid-80s.

Every accomplishment prior to that is horse sh*t.

The first FOUR MVPs in the 80's...played in the 70's.
The first FIVE scoring leaders in the 80's...played in the 70's.
The first SIX rebounding leaders in the 80's...played in the 70's.
And the first FIVE FG% leaders in the 80's...played in the 70's.

[Rocketswin2013]

In terms of talent: 80's > 90's = 10's = 00's = 60's>>> 70's >>>>>>>>>>50's

[Young X]

Modern era = 80's to now. Basketball as we know it now started in the 80's. If you go back and watch old 80's games besides the ball handling, physicality, and lower 3 pt usage it's pretty much the same as it is now.

[Soundwave]

I'd say when the ABA merged with the NBA is really kinda the coming of what we know as modern NBA.

I'd say from 1976 (the merger year) is really where everything galvanized.

The 80s is where modern basketball basically cemented itself, everything since then has just been tweaks here and there ... even the super defensive era of basketball really owes itself to the Bad Boy Pistons style of play, which was already in full force by the late 1980s.

The 50s/60s ... no offence to the players that played in that era ... but basketball was in my eyes too raw/under developed as a sport at that time.

I mean what was the state of coaching and player development even like in the 50s or early 60s given the social issues taking place in the US prior to the civil rights movement? It's not like any black guy could just pick and choose any div I school to go develop their basketball game at.

[BoutPractice]

Depends what meaning you attach to "modern".

I recently watched a 1970 video of Kareem VS Bellamy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9LhEH3YCw). It's in colour, at proper speed... just randoms part from the game, you have plenty of broken plays and missed bunnies, it's not a highlight reel... and I honestly don't see much difference with basketball in the 80s.

Most players on the court are tall, black and athletic. You witness young Alcindor's ridiculous length and mobility, as he performs nasty facials and blocks everything (not that anyone doubts that he would be unstoppable if he played today, Kareem has always been immunized from this criticism due to his long career...), 7 footer Walt Bellamy, who was drafted in 61, towards the end of his career, gracefully running the court, hitting the midrange and fadeaway, scoring 21 and looking like he belongs out there... you don't see Oscar Robertson shining in the selected plays but the scoring table showed he had no problem contributing... everyone is throwing amazingly precise outlets, there's plenty of crisp passing and beautiful high low action, impossibly athletic dives to save the ball, the pull up jumpers look modern, rookie Pete Maravich in his very first game and apparently struggling is still randomly attempting streetball passes, showing impeccable footwork, performing perfect crossovers and hoisting Kobe-style contested fadeaways...

None of this has been glorified, quite the contrary. But this definitely could have been the 80s. And this is definitely the NBA. No one would mistake it for a different league.

Anyway, this is 1970... now I want you to think about this. In 1969, the year before that video, Bill Russell was winning his last NBA title, averaging 21 rebounds and 5 assists per game in the Finals at age 34. The same Bill Russell whose titles are so often diminished because they came "in the 60s". Meaning he would probably be some kind of stiff today, even though he did stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

In the 1969 Finals, 30 year old Jerry West averaged 38 and 8 a game. 2 years later, Julius Erving is drafted in the ABA. That same year, Wilt on his last legs wins NBA Finals MVP in dominant fashion.

Can anyone explain to me: in this giant mess (called reality), when exactly does "modern" basketball start? What arbitrary date are you going to choose?


Next year you could possibly see Kobe Bryant schooling Andrew Wiggins, or Tim Duncan schooling Joel Embiid, who could play into the 2030s... Tim Duncan played at the same time as Hakeem, who was schooled by Kareem, who was schooled by Wilt... or put another way Tim Duncan is just 2 years removed from the retirement of Moses Malone, who himself entered the league a year after Wilt Chamberlain left it.

And I'll continue while I'm at it. Magic Johnson played both with Kareem, who played in the 60s, and against Kevin Garnett who is still playing today, in the mid 2010s. Karl Malone played both Julius Erving and LeBron James.

[Psileas]

Depends what meaning you attach to "modern".

I recently watched a 1970 video of Kareem VS Bellamy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9LhEH3YCw). It's in colour, at proper speed... just randoms part from the game, you have plenty of broken plays and missed bunnies, it's not a highlight reel... and I honestly don't see much difference with basketball in the 80s.

Most players on the court are tall, black and athletic. You witness young Alcindor's ridiculous length and mobility, as he performs nasty facials and blocks everything (not that anyone doubts that he would be unstoppable if he played today, Kareem has always been immunized from this criticism due to his long career...), 7 footer Walt Bellamy, who was drafted in 61, towards the end of his career, gracefully running the court, hitting the midrange and fadeaway, scoring 21 and looking like he belongs out there... you don't see Oscar Robertson shining in the selected plays but the scoring table showed he had no problem contributing... everyone is throwing amazingly precise outlets, there's plenty of crisp passing and beautiful high low action, impossibly athletic dives to save the ball, the pull up jumpers look modern, rookie Pete Maravich in his very first game and apparently struggling is still randomly attempting streetball passes, showing impeccable footwork, performing perfect crossovers and hoisting Kobe-style contested fadeaways...

None of this has been glorified, quite the contrary. But this definitely could have been the 80s. And this is definitely the NBA. No one would mistake it for a different league.

Anyway, this is 1970... now I want you to think about this. In 1969, the year before that video, Bill Russell was winning his last NBA title, averaging 21 rebounds and 5 assists per game in the Finals at age 34. The same Bill Russell whose titles are so often diminished because they came "in the 60s". Meaning he would probably be some kind of stiff today, even though he did stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

In the 1969 Finals, 30 year old Jerry West averaged 38 and 8 a game. 2 years later, Julius Erving is drafted in the ABA. That same year, Wilt on his last legs wins NBA Finals MVP in dominant fashion.

Can anyone explain to me: in this giant mess (called reality), when exactly does "modern" basketball start? What arbitrary date are you going to choose?


Next year you could possibly see Kobe Bryant schooling Andrew Wiggins, or Tim Duncan schooling Joel Embiid, who could play into the 2030s... Tim Duncan played at the same time as Hakeem, who was schooled by Kareem, who was schooled by Wilt... or put another way Tim Duncan is just 2 years removed from the retirement of Moses Malone, who himself entered the league a year after Wilt Chamberlain left it.

And I'll continue while I'm at it. Magic Johnson played both with Kareem, who played in the 60s, and against Kevin Garnett who is still playing today, in the mid 2010s. Karl Malone played both Julius Erving and LeBron James.

:applause:

1) Also, watch the NBA vs ABA showdown, with the 3-pointer actually being there and a few guys taking a few of them and tell me this isn't similar to the 80's. The only thing that the 80's game had in a somewhat significant degree over the 70's was flashy dunks, and that's not because there was some huge difference between the athletic abilities of the 2 eras, but because the 70's NBA promoted this traditional, less flashy style of basketball that the ABA changed. The ABA game differs very little from the 80's game.

2) I repeat what I've already said before: If the 80's are considered modern and "superior" and the 70's aren't, why should we put any significance on Magic's and Bird's early rings, which came almost solely with and against 70's players? And then, why put any significance on the '83 Sixers, who beat an "unproven" Magic and a "non-modern" Kareem, why revere the Magic vs Bird battles, and so on.

3) The single most significant change in basketball happened before the 1954-55 season. And it's not just significant because of the fact itself, it's significant because this fact forced most of the teams to immediately change the way they played, while other changes, like the 3-pointer, didn't bring about changes anywhere near as directly and radically (e.g, most teams in the 80's pretty much ignored the 3-point line).

[jongib369]

Depends what meaning you attach to "modern".

I recently watched a 1970 video of Kareem VS Bellamy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9LhEH3YCw). It's in colour, at proper speed... just randoms part from the game, you have plenty of broken plays and missed bunnies, it's not a highlight reel... and I honestly don't see much difference with basketball in the 80s.

Most players on the court are tall, black and athletic. You witness young Alcindor's ridiculous length and mobility, as he performs nasty facials and blocks everything (not that anyone doubts that he would be unstoppable if he played today, Kareem has always been immunized from this criticism due to his long career...), 7 footer Walt Bellamy, who was drafted in 61, towards the end of his career, gracefully running the court, hitting the midrange and fadeaway, scoring 21 and looking like he belongs out there... you don't see Oscar Robertson shining in the selected plays but the scoring table showed he had no problem contributing... everyone is throwing amazingly precise outlets, there's plenty of crisp passing and beautiful high low action, impossibly athletic dives to save the ball, the pull up jumpers look modern, rookie Pete Maravich in his very first game and apparently struggling is still randomly attempting streetball passes, showing impeccable footwork, performing perfect crossovers and hoisting Kobe-style contested fadeaways...

None of this has been glorified, quite the contrary. But this definitely could have been the 80s. And this is definitely the NBA. No one would mistake it for a different league.

Anyway, this is 1970... now I want you to think about this. In 1969, the year before that video, Bill Russell was winning his last NBA title, averaging 21 rebounds and 5 assists per game in the Finals at age 34. The same Bill Russell whose titles are so often diminished because they came "in the 60s". Meaning he would probably be some kind of stiff today, even though he did stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

In the 1969 Finals, 30 year old Jerry West averaged 38 and 8 a game. 2 years later, Julius Erving is drafted in the ABA. That same year, Wilt on his last legs wins NBA Finals MVP in dominant fashion.

Can anyone explain to me: in this giant mess (called reality), when exactly does "modern" basketball start? What arbitrary date are you going to choose?


Next year you could possibly see Kobe Bryant schooling Andrew Wiggins, or Tim Duncan schooling Joel Embiid, who could play into the 2030s... Tim Duncan played at the same time as Hakeem, who was schooled by Kareem, who was schooled by Wilt... or put another way Tim Duncan is just 2 years removed from the retirement of Moses Malone, who himself entered the league a year after Wilt Chamberlain left it.

And I'll continue while I'm at it. Magic Johnson played both with Kareem, who played in the 60s, and against Kevin Garnett who is still playing today, in the mid 2010s. Karl Malone played both Julius Erving and LeBron James.
Don't know if you've seen any of these but you might enjoy them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9_aiXvoSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKp7U7PeeyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEgynFUSJjg

[LAZERUSS]

Don't know if you've seen any of these but you might enjoy them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwCmKvHJNoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v9_aiXvoSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKp7U7PeeyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEgynFUSJjg

Reed was Zach Randolph long before Randolph was. Nearly identical games.

Lucas was Kevin Love, in EVERY aspect of the game, including long range shooting.

And just compare the footage of Pistol Pete, who played college ball in the late 60's, with that of Ricky Rubio. Well, no comparison really. The Pistol could SHOOT.

[jongib369]

Reed was Zach Randolph long before Randolph was. Nearly identical games.

Lucas was Kevin Love, in EVERY aspect of the game, including long range shooting.

And just compare the footage of Pistol Pete, who played college ball in the late 60's, with that of Ricky Rubio. Well, no comparison really. The Pistol could SHOOT.


You're right I see a lot of similarities between all those players....It's a shame Rubio is such a lack luster scorer with that kind of vision and defense considering his athleticism.... Reed reminds me of this guy a lot also, don't know what you think of his game but he's like a mixture of Reed and McHale on offense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogqSm6828U


Who do you think was the better scorer, Love or Lucas? Everything considered even range

[MagnumT/A]

Depends what meaning you attach to "modern".

I recently watched a 1970 video of Kareem VS Bellamy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv9LhEH3YCw). It's in colour, at proper speed... just randoms part from the game, you have plenty of broken plays and missed bunnies, it's not a highlight reel... and I honestly don't see much difference with basketball in the 80s.

Most players on the court are tall, black and athletic. You witness young Alcindor's ridiculous length and mobility, as he performs nasty facials and blocks everything (not that anyone doubts that he would be unstoppable if he played today, Kareem has always been immunized from this criticism due to his long career...), 7 footer Walt Bellamy, who was drafted in 61, towards the end of his career, gracefully running the court, hitting the midrange and fadeaway, scoring 21 and looking like he belongs out there... you don't see Oscar Robertson shining in the selected plays but the scoring table showed he had no problem contributing... everyone is throwing amazingly precise outlets, there's plenty of crisp passing and beautiful high low action, impossibly athletic dives to save the ball, the pull up jumpers look modern, rookie Pete Maravich in his very first game and apparently struggling is still randomly attempting streetball passes, showing impeccable footwork, performing perfect crossovers and hoisting Kobe-style contested fadeaways...

None of this has been glorified, quite the contrary. But this definitely could have been the 80s. And this is definitely the NBA. No one would mistake it for a different league.

Anyway, this is 1970... now I want you to think about this. In 1969, the year before that video, Bill Russell was winning his last NBA title, averaging 21 rebounds and 5 assists per game in the Finals at age 34. The same Bill Russell whose titles are so often diminished because they came "in the 60s". Meaning he would probably be some kind of stiff today, even though he did stuff like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWelUNrJUMM

In the 1969 Finals, 30 year old Jerry West averaged 38 and 8 a game. 2 years later, Julius Erving is drafted in the ABA. That same year, Wilt on his last legs wins NBA Finals MVP in dominant fashion.

Can anyone explain to me: in this giant mess (called reality), when exactly does "modern" basketball start? What arbitrary date are you going to choose?


Next year you could possibly see Kobe Bryant schooling Andrew Wiggins, or Tim Duncan schooling Joel Embiid, who could play into the 2030s... Tim Duncan played at the same time as Hakeem, who was schooled by Kareem, who was schooled by Wilt... or put another way Tim Duncan is just 2 years removed from the retirement of Moses Malone, who himself entered the league a year after Wilt Chamberlain left it.

And I'll continue while I'm at it. Magic Johnson played both with Kareem, who played in the 60s, and against Kevin Garnett who is still playing today, in the mid 2010s. Karl Malone played both Julius Erving and LeBron James.

:applause: Great post

[Kiddlovesnets]

I think we need to distinguish between average talent level and top talent/superstar level. The superstar level has been quite steady for the past few decades, the 60s superstars would still dominate in today's league. But on average basis today's league has way better average players than 60s and 70s. The gap between superstars/all-stars and average role players is much less in today's league than old times, for this reason you dont see today's superstars put up monstrous stats since they face better resistance.

[LAZERUSS]

I think we need to distinguish between average talent level and top talent/superstar level. The superstar level has been quite steady for the past few decades, the 60s superstars would still dominate in today's league. But on average basis today's league has way better average players than 60s and 70s. The gap between superstars/all-stars and average role players is much less in today's league than old times, for this reason you dont see today's superstars put up monstrous stats since they face better resistance.

I want you to take a CLOSE LOOK at the 66-67 NBA season, team-for-team, and then HONESTLY tell us all here, that the "average" talent was less then, than today.

[senelcoolidge]

Post shot clock era is the "modern era."

This is the answer. Sure there are have been some rule changes, somethings added and other things taken out but it's the same game with the shot clock.

[stephanieg]

Modern NBA started in 2004 with the hand check rule and teams starting to chuck up ungodly amounts of threes from drive and kicks and setting a bazillion picks every play.

Before that it was all about posting up big guys.

An era when teams take like two threes a game, or when there isn't even a three point line, ain't the modern NBA.