Greatest 2nd option of all time

[played0ut]

Who do you think? Reasons would be good too.


I'll say Scottie Pippen, clearly. He's the type of player who would complement virtually ANY superstar.

-High BBIQ
-Good scorer
-One of best perimeter defenders
-He can take over if he needs to, and
-Understands IN HIS HEART how to win, even if it means deferring, even if he has a natural alpha personality
-Does a lot of the dirty work for the team


Consider Tex Winters said that MJ may have needed Pippen more than Pippen needed him. Plug Pippen into any other team with a superstar and they'll be immediate contenders. Plug MJ into any other team with another superstar and they'll have to work on chemistry issues/game overlapping.


Imagine teams with
-Shaq
-Kobe
-Iverson
-Wilt
-Hakeem
-Duncan



whoever. Plug Pippen in and you can see how they'd work. Put MJ instead? Lol with the exception of maybe Hakeem, Wilt (in his later years), and Duncan there will be trades, complaints about touches, major chemistry issues, etc.










Oh, and before people start yapping about how MJ is nothing without Pippen, consider how Pippen unequivocally said that training and playing with MJ was grueling, but definitely made him into the great player he became.

[IncarceratedBob]

Hard to argue against 09/10 Kobe Bryant

[played0ut]

Kobe was great 2nd option 01-03. (He openly admitted being 2nd to Shaq).


He'd never work as a true 2nd option with his mindset. At least not in his prime. He was the man in 09/10.

[IncarceratedBob]

Kobe was great 2nd option 01-03. (He openly admitted being 2nd to Shaq).


He'd never work as a true 2nd option with his mindset. At least not in his prime. He was the man in 09/10.
He was the 2nd option to Pau Gasol according to Win Shares, the ultimate basketball stat according to leading minds, in 2009 and 2010.

[bdreason]

Kareem and Magic.

[K Xerxes]

Frobe is about as good as it gets. Arguments can be made for early 80s Magic, mid 80s Kareem and Pippen.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Frobe is about as good as it gets. Arguments can be made for early 80s Magic, mid 80s Kareem and Pippen.
This. I'd take Frobe

[LAZERUSS]

Purely speculation, but worth mentioning...

The Wilt-West tandem in the 69-70 season were on path for TWO players averaging 30 + ppg.

With a new coach, who made the decision to go with Wilt as the main offensive option, and in the first nine games of the season...

Wilt was leading the league at 32.2 ppg, on a .579 FG% (and 20.0 rpg), while West was second at 30.8 ppg. Chamberlain shredded his knee in that ninth game, and was never the same again, while West did go on to lead the NBA in scoring at 31.2 ppg that year.

[SCdac]

As far as older second-options, David Robinson and Clyde Drexler come to mind. Going with second-options in their prime, definitely the players mentioned already

[Kiddlovesnets]

How about Kareem in show-time Lakers?

[avonbarksdale]

easy kobe in his early days

[LAZERUSS]

How about Kareem in show-time Lakers?

In terms of their half-court offense, KAJ was the primary option until the '86-87 season. BUT, we do KNOW that Magic was certainly capable of being a #1 option, even as early as his rookie season.

[kennethgriffin]

http://i58.tinypic.com/280d4y.png
http://i60.tinypic.com/2sbpcfc.jpg
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i will admit shaq at the time was more efficient and averaged slightly more ppg 2 out of the 4 years. but the offense went through kobe more often via total shot attempts/play making.

shaq was technically and statistically the 2nd option


shaq has to be the goat 2nd option

[Kiddlovesnets]

i will admit shaq at the time was more efficient and averaged slightly more ppg 2 out of the 4 years. but the offense went through kobe more often via total shot attempts/play making.

shaq was technically and statistically the 2nd option


shaq has to be the goat 2nd option


You just dont know when to quit, do you? Just admit that Kobe was the 2nd option getting his sidekick rings from 00-02, its not that difficult.
:facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

You just dont know when to quit, do you? Just admit that Kobe was the 2nd option getting his sidekick rings from 00-02, its not that difficult.
:facepalm


theres a difference between 1st option and more efficient player


shaq was so efficient that he appeared to be the 1st option. but if that were the case. he would have more shot attempts


having 2-3-4 more shot attempts and 3-4 more assists shows more often than not the ball went through kobe

kobe was the primary offensive option. maybe not the most efficient. but kobe was 1st

[LAZERUSS]

The Kobe-Shaq duo was interesting. While Shaq was generally the bell-cow from '99-02, Kobe was the main reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs in '01 and '02, and was their best player against SA in '03.

[kennethgriffin]

was bill russell the 1st option on the celtics? just cause he was the mvp and MIP doesnt mean he was the 1st option

if one guy averages 20-23 shots over 4 years and another guy averages 17-19 shots over 4 years. whos the 1st option?

[kennethgriffin]

kobe from 2001 to 2004 ( 4 year average )

27ppg

shaq from 2001 to 2004 ( 4 year average )

26ppg


so it wasnt just the shots per game

overall kobe averaged more points too

[bdreason]

Those stats are embarrassing for Kobe, and only solidify the opinion that his shot-jacking is what cost that Lakers the chance at 4, 5, or even 6 straight titles.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Those stats are embarrassing for Kobe, and only solidify the opinion that his shot-jacking is what cost that Lakers the chance at 4, 5, or even 6 straight titles.

I wont say for 2003 and 2008, but clearly the 2004 meltdown was on him. Shaq was a beast in that series, but Kobe took like 10 more shots than him each game while shooting like 37% from the field, thats Allen Iverson-like number.
:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Those stats are embarrassing for Kobe, and only solidify the opinion that his shot-jacking is what cost that Lakers the chance at 4, 5, or even 6 straight titles.

Not sure how you figure that, but you could possibly make a case that Kobe cost them a chance in the '04 Finals, and perhaps even in the '08 Finals.

The '05, '06, and '07 Lakers were simply not very good.

[JT123]

It's a tie, between Kobe and Durant.

[Hey Yo]

theres a difference between 1st option and more efficient player


shaq was so efficient that he appeared to be the 1st option. but if that were the case. he would have more shot attempts


having 2-3-4 more shot attempts and 3-4 more assists shows more often than not the ball went through kobe

kobe was the primary offensive option. maybe not the most efficient. but kobe was 1st
Shaq taking more FTA shows he was attempting more shots, considering it's not recorded as a FGA when you get fouled in the act of shooting

Plus look at 2pa. They're the same between the two because Shaq didn't shoot 3's.

[bdreason]

Not sure how you figure that, but you could possibly make a case that Kobe cost them a chance in the '04 Finals, and perhaps even in the '08 Finals.

The '05, '06, and '07 Lakers were simply not very good.


Shaq proved that he was still capable of playing championship level ball in both '05 (MVP candidate) and '06 (won a ring) with Miami.

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq proved that he was still capable of playing championship level ball in both '05 (MVP candidate) and '06 (won a ring) with Miami.

Very true. Still, it was Shaq who basically demanded to be traded. Furthermore, I blame Phil for the chasm between Kobe and Shaq. Jerry West was able to get those two to play nice, but Phil basically undermined their relationship.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Very true. Still, it was Shaq who basically demanded to be traded. Furthermore, I blame Phil for the chasm between Kobe and Shaq. Jerry West was able to get those two to play nice, but Phil basically undermined their relationship.

But why Shaq demanded to be traded, if you watched 2004 NBA Finals you'd realize that its perfectly reasonable for him to be mad and wanted out.

[Hey Yo]

During their first meeting of the 2003-04 season, Bryant warned Jackson that O'Neal wasn't going to get away with criticizing him in public.

"If he starts saying things in the press I will fire back," Bryant said. "I am not afraid to go up against him. I've had it. I am tired of being a sidekick."

[played0ut]

But why Shaq demanded to be traded, if you watched 2004 NBA Finals you'd realize that its perfectly reasonable for him to be mad and wanted out.

the chemistry between kobe and shaq was one thing, but a big issue was that he wanted to be paid money the lakers weren't willing to give

[PsychoBe]

During their first meeting of the 2003-04 season, Bryant warned Jackson that O'Neal wasn't going to get away with criticizing him in public.

"If he starts saying things in the press I will fire back," Bryant said. "I am not afraid to go up against him. I've had it. I am tired of being a sidekick."

shaq: kobe is my hero.

1a and 1b

[JT123]

shaq: kobe is my hero.

1a and 1b
What does 1a/1b even mean? :oldlol: Just a way for Kobe stans to feel better about the fact that Kobe was Shaq's SIDEKICK! :facepalm
Kobe stans be like "If we call Kobe option 1b then Kobe still seems alpha." :roll:

[b0bab0i]

Pippen

[fpliii]

Could've been KG. Dude was good as a scorer in Minny, but if he was in a role similar to the one he played in Boston his first couple years (before the prime-ending injury), he'd be put in a position to maximize his strengths, and minimize his (relative to the GOAT offensive PFs) weakness.

[knicksman]

Kareem no doubt

[rightsideup]

1 kobe to shaq
2 pippen
3 magic early carrer
4kareem to magic
5 Hondo to russel

[Le Shaqtus]

LeBron

hheheuehheheheheuhe

[Hey Yo]

Kareem no doubt
KAJ was only the 2nd option for about the last 4ys of his career. Which would have started around his 16th-17th year in the league

[Kiddlovesnets]

KAJ was only the 2nd option for about the last 4ys of his career. Which would have started around his 16th-17th year in the league

Nah Kareem has been the 2nd option since Magic entered the league.

[fpliii]

Nah Kareem has been the 2nd option since Magic entered the league.
lmao

[pauk]

Michael Jordan.

[coin24]

Lebran has been a good second option, went and joined his batman wade:applause:

[Kiddlovesnets]

lmao

Why? I was speaking the truth. Kareem to the Lakers in 1980s was like Wade to the Heat in 2010s, while Magic was like Lebron. Sure they played different positions, and Kareem was more valuable to the team on the court than Wade, but still does not change the fact that their rings were sidekick rings. The Lakers were better than the Heat on every aspect though, Magic > Lebron, Kareem > Wade, Worthy > Bosh, Riley >>> Spolestra. Come to think about it, Lebron is always known as Poor man's Magic, they also both have top-class second options in their own era.

[knicksman]

KAJ was only the 2nd option for about the last 4ys of his career. Which would have started around his 16th-17th year in the league

magic contributed more to the offense than kareem and so hes the 1st option

[Rocketswin2013]

McHale should get an HM.

[played0ut]

Lebran has been a good second option, went and joined his batman wade:applause:

lebron is obviously first option.



but if he ever played second option he'd be ****ing insane

[fpliii]

Why? I was speaking the truth. Kareem to the Lakers in 1980s was like Wade to the Heat in 2010s, while Magic was like Lebron. Sure they played different positions, and Kareem was more valuable to the team on the court than Wade, but still does not change the fact that their rings were sidekick rings. The Lakers were better than the Heat on every aspect though, Magic > Lebron, Kareem > Wade, Worthy > Bosh, Riley >>> Spolestra. Come to think about it, Lebron is always known as Poor man's Magic, they also both have top-class second options in their own era.
The Heat don't run their offense through Wade first and foremost. The Lakers did so with Kareem, at least in 79-80 and 80-81 (his prime years), and to some extent did through the mid 80s. A big part of the narrative of Magic's "peak" season in 86-87 was that he finally became the first scoring option in the offense.

Even if you want to say the first scoring option isn't the "first option" on offense because Magic was a PG, this wasn't the case. Norm Nixon played point until he was traded prior to the 83-84 season.

Kareem was unquestionably the first option on those early Lakers teams.

[Hey Yo]

magic contributed more to the offense than kareem and so hes the 1st option
Usually when this question is asked, it's referring to scoring or go to guy in that situation.

KAJ was pretty much that option for the majority of his career.

Magic was a great 2nd option until about 1986-87. That's when he became first option.

[knicksman]

Usually when this question is asked, it's referring to scoring or go to guy in that situation.

KAJ was pretty much that option for the majority of his career.

Magic was a great 2nd option until about 1986-87. That's when he became first option.

but i have my own definition and its who contributed more to the offense and its magic. So it was his team from their 2nd year onwards. coz if we follow your definition then theres just no way pgs can be first options

[fpliii]

but i have my own definition and its who contributed more to the offense and its magic. So it was his team from their 2nd year onwards. coz if we follow your definition then theres just no way pgs can be first options
Magic wasn't the PG his first four years...Nixon was.

[dreamwarrior]

1st option means they get the ball first. Shaq always got the ball first. If he got doubled he'd kick it out to Kobe.

[T_L_P]

The Kobe-Shaq duo was interesting. While Shaq was generally the bell-cow from '99-02, Kobe was the main reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs in '01 and '02, and was their best player against SA in '03.

Do you mean Kobe was the best Laker, or the best player in the '03 series out of everyone?

[LAZERUSS]

Do you mean Kobe was the best Laker, or the best player in the '03 series out of everyone?

He was the best PLAYER in '01 and '02, and the best Laker in '03. And, BTW, in '08, best PLAYER.

[T_L_P]

He was the best PLAYER in '01 and '02, and the best Laker in '03. And, BTW, in '08, best PLAYER.

Agreed, though Duncan played every bit as good as Kobe in '02. The late 4th quarter issues he had don't help, but in terms of overall production Duncan was clearly the best player.