Who's More Clutch Kobe Or Lebron?

[aboss4real24]

I Think Kobe gets overrated in the clutch

Lebron was always underrated in the clutch till 2012 when he won

now i think hes overrated also

WHO Do U Think is more clutch?

I Would take Kobe just cuz hes a better scorer 1 on 1


But LB Gt more gamewinners in the offs tho http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8676/iseeu.png

[Cocaine80s]

Lebron. He can either hit the shot or find the open man. Kobe would just shoot

[kennethgriffin]

List of Game Winners:


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[Solefade]

kobe's clutch in the regular season



but when the game actually matters it's lebron for sure



OP: how can someone be such a good 1v1 player when they've never shot 50% ever in their career?

[atljonesbro]

LeBron. He can hit the shot and doesn't have to big of an ego to shoot a shot over 3 people. He's willing to find the open shooter. Kobe is extremely selfish in the clutch.

[Marchesk]

http://redrockbasketball.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/5354161616_aa16ac3eef_o.jpg

[Warfan]

If I have only a few seconds left or a catch and shoot id pick Kobe. If I have most of a possession or maybe 10-15 seconds id choose LeBron since he can get to the rim and finish/draw a foul and is more willing and capable to get an open shot for a teammate

Kobe is overrated and Bran is underrated...

[Solefade]

If I have only a few seconds left or a catch and shoot id pick Kobe. If I have most of a possession or maybe 10-15 seconds id choose LeBron since he can get to the rim and finish/draw a foul and is more willing and capable to get an open shot for a teammate

Kobe is overrated and Bran is underrated...

this


honestly kobe has the GOAT footwork but probably one of the WOAT shot selections for a superstar

[Cold soul]

Kobe. But Lebron is underrated in the clutch though.

[JebronLames]

Lebron. Unpredictable, difficult to play against. Kobe is predictable, he's gonna chuck a 30% shot.

Would only take kobe if there was around 5 seconds left.

[Dave3]

They're both pretty clutch players, but LeBron is the better decision maker in the clutch, despite people's perceptions that him not shooting it everytime is a bad thing.

Kobe on the other hand could have missed his last 7 shots in the 4th and still take and make the gamewinner, which is ridiculous confidence.

[stalkerforlife]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]List of Game Winners:


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[stalkerforlife]

And this thread is bad.

One guy DEMANDS the ball the ENTIRE 4th quarter, which all of the 4th is a clutch situation potentially.

The other guy defers.

[Dave3]

And this thread is bad.

One guy DEMANDS the ball the ENTIRE 4th quarter, which all of the 4th is a clutch situation potentially.

The other guy defers.
One forces shots, one shoots when it's the better shot, and makes plays for others when that's the better available option. Why is playing 5 on 5 basketball right now considered worse than trying to go 1 on 5?

[Solefade]

And this thread is bad.

One guy DEMANDS the ball the ENTIRE 4th quarter, which all of the 4th is a clutch situation potentially.

The other guy defers.


you have great basketball knowledge :applause:

[stalkerforlife]

One forces shots, one shoots when it's the better shot, and makes plays for others when that's the better available option. Why is playing 5 on 5 basketball right now considered worse than trying to go 1 on 5?

5 > 2

Seemed to work for him.

[Solefade]

One forces shots, one shoots when it's the better shot, and makes plays for others when that's the better available option. Why is playing 5 on 5 basketball right now considered worse than trying to go 1 on 5?


5v5 basketball? what a crazy concept

[stalkerforlife]

you have great basketball knowledge :applause:

Thanks.

I love you.

[Dave3]

5 > 2

Seemed to work for him.
You're familiar with non sequiters correct? Either make a full argument or spare me the Kobe stan catch phrases. I'm not looking to get into a battle of posting pictures and .gifs. Talk basketball, but don't pretend to debate with platitudes.

[stalkerforlife]

You're familiar with non sequiters correct? Either make a full argument or spare me the Kobe stan catch phrases. I'm not looking to get into a battle of posting pictures and .gifs. Talk basketball, but don't pretend to debate with platitudes.

I honestly don't know what a lot of those words mean.

All I can say is, you bashed Kobe's style of play but he has 5 rings and was the leading 4th quarter scorer for 4 of those rings.

Keep it simple, dude.

[J Shuttlesworth]

http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ba19bd8117be4b4ac706b5223b9d7237-1.jpeg
http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bwtxfczcmae-dec-large.png
http://i.imgur.com/SleVKTS.png
http://i.imgur.com/nJrvjFy.png

[stalkerforlife]

http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ba19bd8117be4b4ac706b5223b9d7237-1.jpeg
http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bwtxfczcmae-dec-large.png
http://i.imgur.com/SleVKTS.png
http://i.imgur.com/nJrvjFy.png

Arbitrary. "Last ten seconds." Or "from 2003." What about the entire 4th? What about the last 5 minutes? What about the last 3 minutes?

Like an alpha, Kobe takes the most shots, though. That will go misunderstood. However, a true alpha unloads his clip and doesn't fear the consequences.

A beta defers and protects himself from ridicule.

[Dave3]

I honestly don't know what a lot of those words mean.

All I can say is, you bashed Kobe's style of play but he has 5 rings and was the leading 4th quarter scorer for 4 of those rings.

Keep it simple, dude.
I like simple, but there is such a thing as oversimplifying. A non sequiter means you bring up something totally irrelevant to what someone just said. "5>2" is a catch phrase Kobe stans like to use because it's become the last argument they have. Instead argue the point. Do you think that going 1 on 5 is what produced the 5 rings for Kobe and playing team ball is the reason LeBron has 3 less rings at the moment? Or maybe there have been a couple hundred other factors coming into play to affect their ring totals?

[stalkerforlife]

I like simple, but there is such a thing as oversimplifying. A non sequiter means you bring up something totally irrelevant to what someone just said. "5>2" is a catch phrase Kobe stans like to use because it's become the last argument they have. Instead argue the point. Do you think that going 1 on 5 is what produced the 5 rings for Kobe and playing team ball is the reason LeBron has 3 less rings at the moment? Or maybe there have been a couple hundred other factors coming into play to affect their ring totals?

No, I think Kobe being an alpha and thus being unafraid of failure is what led him to being the leading scorer in the 4th quarter for 4 championship teams. He unloaded his clip. Sometimes he failed, sometimes he succeeded. But he unloaded his clip.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Arbitrary. "Last ten seconds." Or "from 2003." What about the entire 4th? What about the last 5 minutes? What about the last 3 minutes?

Like an alpha, Kobe takes the most shots, though. That will go misunderstood. However, a true alpha unloads his clip and doesn't fear the consequences.

A beta defers and protects himself from ridicule.
lol @ you dodging the stats. The 24 second stats are practically the same. The point is if you have 1 shot left to win the game, you want LeBron taking it over Kobe. Would you really take the guy shooting 25% with the game on the line? :biggums:

[Dave3]

No, I think Kobe being an alpha and thus being unafraid of failure is what led him to being the leading scorer in the 4th quarter for 4 championship teams. He unloaded his clip. Sometimes he failed, sometimes he succeeded. But he unloaded his clip.
Again, you use catch phrases to make arguments. WTF is alpha? This isn't prehistoric society where there are alpha males that hunt for their tribes. This is basketball, and LeBron's demeanor has always been every bit as strong as anyone else in the league.

Once again, LeBron outscored Kobe in the 4th quarter from 2007 until today, and scored more or the same down the stretch in the last 5 minutes of those 4th quarters. The difference is LeBron always had the points with rebounds and assists as well, and had the better FG% because he made better decisions.

[NumberSix]

Kobe is possibly the least clutch player of all time.

[Warfan]

I like kobe but some kobetards act like he's on mike/birds level. The narrative that he's some clutch god is so overblown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdIEgO2PUqE



4th & OT of the 08-10 finals series

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2008&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=BOS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2009&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=ORL&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=2010&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=BOS&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=12&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg


39-115

34%

#Clutchbe

[GimmeThat]

what is diversion
and what is the reception of diversion/ conversion

the most clutch player is the one who's ready to get the second chance opportunity in the case of a miss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYitHWgM1qE

[J Shuttlesworth]

Kobe's per 36 in the 4th on his last finals run year:

http://i.imgur.com/lWSvimu.png

Lebrons in 2013:

http://i.imgur.com/c0kWqg9.png

[Dave3]

Kobe's per 36 in the 4th on his last finals run year:

http://i.imgur.com/lWSvimu.png

Lebrons in 2013:

http://i.imgur.com/c0kWqg9.png
Don't argue like his stans. Compare fair years. LeBron at 28 isn't fair to compare to Kobe at 31. Compare same ages, or head to head years (if you have those stats).

[J Shuttlesworth]

Don't argue like his stans. Compare fair years. LeBron at 28 isn't fair to compare to Kobe at 31. Compare same ages, or head to head years (if you have those stats).
How is it not fair to compare two years where they're both FMVPs?

[J Shuttlesworth]

LeBron this year:

http://i.imgur.com/LNekFp4.png
12 bron:
http://i.imgur.com/EFukN6Z.png

Frobe 03:

http://i.imgur.com/MzWuDBl.png
02:
http://i.imgur.com/yyB9WYJ.png

[Dave3]

How is it not fair to compare two years where they're both FMVPs?
Because they were at two different stages in their careers/ages. Not every fMVP year is equal with respect to a player's career. I wouldn't compare Shaq's 2000 year to Nowitzki's 2011 fMVP year to prove Shaq>Dirk. Even if Shaq>Dirk, comparing those years just because they both ended in fMVP doesn't make a fair comparison.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Because they were at two different stages in their careers/ages. Not every fMVP year is equal with respect to a player's career. I wouldn't compare Shaq's 2000 year to Nowitzki's 2011 fMVP year to prove Shaq>Dirk. Even if Shaq>Dirk, comparing those years just because they both ended in fMVP doesn't make a fair comparison.
Fair enough but I put up a couple of other years. They are similar in scoring, but LeBron is more efficient... no surprise.

[Dave3]

Fair enough but I put up a couple of other years. They are similar in scoring, but LeBron is more efficient... no surprise.
What's the website?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Playoffs edition:

07-08 Kobe (MVP year)
http://i.imgur.com/g2cCYa4.png
Bron in current playoffs:
http://i.imgur.com/vRNOqOC.png
Throwback Cleveland bron :eek:
http://i.imgur.com/uQwbSix.png

[J Shuttlesworth]

What's the website?
http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=2544&PerMode=Per36&Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs
http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=977&Season=2007-08&PerMode=Per36&SeasonType=Playoffs

[Dave3]

http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=2544&PerMode=Per36&Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Playoffs
http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.html?PlayerID=977&Season=2007-08&PerMode=Per36&SeasonType=Playoffs
Damn, I remember having to use hoopdata, 82games, etc. Now everything's on NBA.com. That's pretty cool, thanks.

[kureyşi-gospurs]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]List of Game Winners:


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[J Shuttlesworth]

stalkerforlife, where you at?

[Jameerthefear]

Lebron and isn't close.

[riseagainst]

lebron > kobe in literally everything that is not a contested fadeaway 3.

[J Shuttlesworth]

lebron > kobe in literally everything that is not a contested fadeaway 3.
http://www.gubta.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/l3bron.gif

[aboss4real24]

Dam kobe nt clutch

[riseagainst]

Kobe is so overrated in the clutch. He may have made a lot of last second shots/game winners, but he has missed three times as much.

[MVBallin2K]

The arguments made in this thread when it pops up always never cease to amaze me.

Kobe has had a career nearly twice as long as Lebron, of course he's missed more shots. On the opposite side, of course he has a long list of game winners as well. People arguing that Kobe never defers are dumb, he's deferred to Fisher, he's even deferred to Bynum to win games. To me it screams of people either ignoring that fact or never actually watching enough games and just blindly propping up their favorite.

Lebron doesn't have as many shots because Lebron doesn't take as many shots. You can argue whether that's good or bad but it's fact that he just doesn't. So pictures of potential game winners and such, they don't really matter. Lebron is the type that protects his FG%, Kobe is not. Again, you can argue whether which side si right but this is an unfair comparison either way you go. Compare two guys who actually have a similar career in length or otherwise, it's going to be a non factor.

[lakerspng]

The last 5 minutes in a close game is where a legend makes their name.

Over his career, I can think of maybe one or two players who have made as much positive impact for their teams in that time as Kobe. MJ being one, Bird the other.

LeBron has games where he does, but a lot where he is super passive and disappears.

If MJ or Kobe's team lost it was not because they didn't give every bit of effort on every play to win. Some games it just doesn't come out on your side. I've seen games where LeBron did not give that effort and it wasn't his play that helped decide the fate for his team, for better or worse.

LeBron usually makes good decisions, but there are stretches where he makes no decisions and that annoys me and I know it annoys his fans as well, I've seen it countless times in game threads.

Kobe's decisions are usually made before the play begins, which many times it works out, many other times it does not. Which annoys me equally. I'd rather he take advantage of what's developing on the floor during a play, but I think he envisions what he believes is going to take place and tries to make that a reality, instead of dealing with the reality and making the right play based off it. Sometimes that decisiveness works heavily in his favor and other times the defense plans perfectly for it and he ends up with a tougher shot or in a worse position than necessary.

Both are great and incredibly deadly in close game situations, but both also have their flaws. Given the choice between the two in the last 5 minutes of a game, I'd take Kobe. I would rather have a guy that was aggressive and in 100% attack mode every second down the stretch. I can never fault that kind of effort, even if the final result is not always a win.

[jstern]

Here's the deal. Kobe can miss 30 game winners in a row, but when he hits that one, it's like, "OMG, the clutches player of all time. The closer, the closer."

Now Lebron, he can put up monster numbers, hit game winner, but if he misses one free throw with 2 minutes left in a close regular game, then he's a choker.

[lakerspng]

Here's the deal. Kobe can miss 30 game winners in a row, but when he hits that one, it's like, "OMG, the clutches player of all time. The closer, the closer."

Now Lebron, he can put up monster numbers, hit game winner, but if he misses one free throw with 2 minutes left in a close regular game, then he's a choker.

exaggerate much?

[jstern]

exaggerate much?

Not one bit.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Another one of basketballs biggest myths is that Kobe (better shooter) is more clutch than Lebron. Yes he has more gamewinners but much of that is amassed through his 18 year career (longevity)...and the fact he's attempted MORE shots.

Checkout their 4th quarter FG% in the regular season, including OT (up to 2012; stats are from realgm)...

Kobe
'01: 176-393 (44.8%) - overtime: 17-29 (58.6%)
'02: 187-439 (42.9%) - overtime: 1-12 (8.3%)
'03: 236-560 (42.1%) – overtime: 14-36 (38.9%)
'04: 172-421 (40.9%) – overtime: 11-27 (40.7%)
'05: 144-338 (42.6%) – overtime: 3-14 (21.4%)
'06: 236-578 (40.8%) – overtime: 20-39 (51.3%)
'07: 192-478 (40.2%) – overtime: 24-44 (54.5%)
'08: 228-482 (46.1%) – overtime: 8-23 (34.8%)
'09: 208-490 (42.4%) – overtime: 9-20 (45%)
'10: 191-464 (41.2%) – overtime: 12-24 (50%)
'11: 151-389 (38.8%) – overtime: 7-19 (36%)
'12: 76-194 (39.1%) – overtime: 2-10 (20%)
Career Total = 2,197-5,020 (43.7%) – Career Overtime Total: 128-302 (42.3%)

Bron
'04: 130-355 (36.6%) – overtime: 8-18 (44.4%)
'05: 174-396 (43.9%) – overtime: 7-20 (35%)
'06: 230-478 (48.1%) – overtime: 11-14 (78.6%)
'07: 241-517 (46.6%) – overtime: 20-35 (57.1%)
'08: 255-524 (46.6%) – overtime: 10-23 (43.5%)
'09: 198-421 (47.1%) – overtime: 9-18 (50%)
'10: 208-429 (48.5%) – overtime: 6-17(35.3%)
'11: 182-399 (45.6%) – overtime: 10-18 (55.6%)
'12: 41-92 (44.6%) – overtime: 1-6 (16.7%)
Career Total: 1,648-3,611 (45.6%) – Career Overtime Total: 84-169 (49.7%)

Kobe in the playoffs
'01: 38-77 (49.4%) – overtime: 2-3 (66.7%)
'02: 52-106 (49.1%) – overtime: 0-0
'03: 37-83 (44.3%) – overtime: 0-3
'04: 46-126 (36.5%) – overtime: 4-8 (50%)
'06: 16-43 (37.2%) – overtime: 7-9 (77.8%)
'07: 10-34 (29.4%) – overtime: 0-0
'08: 58-124 (46.8%) – overtime: 1-7 (14.3%)
'09: 49-125 (39.2%) – overtime: 3-7 (42.9%)
'10: 45-121 (37.2%) – overtime: 0-0
'11: 12-39 (30.8%) – overtime: 0-0
Career Total: 363-878 (41.3%) – Career Overtime Total: 17-37 (45.9%)

Bron in the playoffs
'06: 37-85 (43.5%) – overtime: 3-3 (100%)
'07: 56-123 (45.5%) – overtime: 6-8 (75%)
'08: 30-76 (39.5%) – overtime: 0-0
'09: 35-76 (46.1%) – overtime: 3-7 (42.9%)
'10: 32-60 (53.3%) – overtime: 0-0
'11: 45-105 (42.9%) – overtime: 3-6 (50%)
Career Total: 235-525 (44.7%) – Career Overtime Total: 15-24 (62.5%)

So..not only does Bron perform at a higher level than Kobe in 4th quarters and overtime in the regular season, but he does so as well in the playoffs.

So if Lebron "disappears" in the 4th quarter (according to Kobe fanatics and detractors), what does Kobe do exactly?

I personally think they're BOTH clutch, but it is what it is.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is LeBron easy.. like not close

http://chasing23.com/kobe-bryant-vs-lebron-james-game-winning-shots/

Take the time and read it carefully :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

Another one of basketballs biggest myths is that Kobe (better shooter) is more clutch than Lebron. Yes he has more gamewinners but much of that is amassed through his 18 year career (longevity)...and the fact he's attempted MORE shots.

Checkout their 4th quarter FG% in the regular season, including OT (up to 2012; stats are from realgm)...

Kobe
'01: 176-393 (44.8%) - overtime: 17-29 (58.6%)
'02: 187-439 (42.9%) - overtime: 1-12 (8.3%)
'03: 236-560 (42.1%) – overtime: 14-36 (38.9%)
'04: 172-421 (40.9%) – overtime: 11-27 (40.7%)
'05: 144-338 (42.6%) – overtime: 3-14 (21.4%)
'06: 236-578 (40.8%) – overtime: 20-39 (51.3%)
'07: 192-478 (40.2%) – overtime: 24-44 (54.5%)
'08: 228-482 (46.1%) – overtime: 8-23 (34.8%)
'09: 208-490 (42.4%) – overtime: 9-20 (45%)
'10: 191-464 (41.2%) – overtime: 12-24 (50%)
'11: 151-389 (38.8%) – overtime: 7-19 (36%)
'12: 76-194 (39.1%) – overtime: 2-10 (20%)
Career Total = 2,197-5,020 (43.7%) – Career Overtime Total: 128-302 (42.3%)

Bron
'04: 130-355 (36.6%) – overtime: 8-18 (44.4%)
'05: 174-396 (43.9%) – overtime: 7-20 (35%)
'06: 230-478 (48.1%) – overtime: 11-14 (78.6%)
'07: 241-517 (46.6%) – overtime: 20-35 (57.1%)
'08: 255-524 (46.6%) – overtime: 10-23 (43.5%)
'09: 198-421 (47.1%) – overtime: 9-18 (50%)
'10: 208-429 (48.5%) – overtime: 6-17(35.3%)
'11: 182-399 (45.6%) – overtime: 10-18 (55.6%)
'12: 41-92 (44.6%) – overtime: 1-6 (16.7%)
Career Total: 1,648-3,611 (45.6%) – Career Overtime Total: 84-169 (49.7%)

Kobe in the playoffs
'01: 38-77 (49.4%) – overtime: 2-3 (66.7%)
'02: 52-106 (49.1%) – overtime: 0-0
'03: 37-83 (44.3%) – overtime: 0-3
'04: 46-126 (36.5%) – overtime: 4-8 (50%)
'06: 16-43 (37.2%) – overtime: 7-9 (77.8%)
'07: 10-34 (29.4%) – overtime: 0-0
'08: 58-124 (46.8%) – overtime: 1-7 (14.3%)
'09: 49-125 (39.2%) – overtime: 3-7 (42.9%)
'10: 45-121 (37.2%) – overtime: 0-0
'11: 12-39 (30.8%) – overtime: 0-0
Career Total: 363-878 (41.3%) – Career Overtime Total: 17-37 (45.9%)

Bron in the playoffs
'06: 37-85 (43.5%) – overtime: 3-3 (100%)
'07: 56-123 (45.5%) – overtime: 6-8 (75%)
'08: 30-76 (39.5%) – overtime: 0-0
'09: 35-76 (46.1%) – overtime: 3-7 (42.9%)
'10: 32-60 (53.3%) – overtime: 0-0
'11: 45-105 (42.9%) – overtime: 3-6 (50%)
Career Total: 235-525 (44.7%) – Career Overtime Total: 15-24 (62.5%)

So..not only does Bron perform at a higher level than Kobe in 4th quarters and overtime in the regular season, but he does so as well in the playoffs.

So if Lebron "disappears" in the 4th quarter (according to Kobe fanatics and detractors), what does Kobe do exactly?

I personally think they're BOTH clutch, but it is what it is.

I don't see how Kobe is clutch.. honestly.

7-28 in playoff game winning/tying shots? 25%? no thanks

Btw yea u can dig those up on BR..

Also, take it LeBrons 2nd year and those gon be some beastly clutch production.

[strifed169]

Kobe isn't any where close to being as clutch as Lebron

Lebron not only makes game winners / game winning plays he's had to play in games where it was do or die for his career, that's some mind blowing pressure situations and every missed/made shot counts and yet he seems to thrive on the pressure the entire game and finds his zone, the guy is a GOAT clutch player.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't see how Kobe is clutch.. honestly.

7-28 in playoff game winning/tying shots? 25%? no thanks

Btw yea u can dig those up on BR..

Also, take it LeBrons 2nd year and those gon be some beastly clutch production.

IDK man.. saying Kobe "isn't clutch" is pretty ignorant. Is he below average when it pertains to hitting walk-off shots and game-winners? His playoff %'s indicate that, for sure...being "clutch", a broader term, is another thing all together, though.

[Relinquish]

exaggerate much?

He is actually 100% accurately describing most (not all of course) Kobe stans who are also Lebron haters on message boards, youtube, and the like (all over the internet). :confusedshrug: