More Impressive Longevity: Duncan or Kobe?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Who ya got?

[riseagainst]

the one who's still playing.

[NumberSix]

Duncan. Was a franchise calibre player from day 1.

[moe94]

Duncan

[J Shuttlesworth]

Duncan

Still making the finals 2x in a row at this age :bowdown:

[MVBallin2K]

Kobe. Both have played a lot of mileage and Duncan is very impressive for his age but Kobe has also dealt with a lot of lingering injuries he's played through in the past through straight Finals appearances. Before he got that German surgery, he virtually played through three straight finals with a bum leg and the usual finger issues.

Obviously people are going to look to right now as the be all and end all but if you want to be truthful, with the entire offense ran through Kobe for his entire career whereas Duncan has help offensively, Kobe lasted a lot longer health wise than he really should have. Wade already is breaking down while Kobe was still going head on when he was that age.

Duncan had Pop to manage his minutes, I guarantee you if Duncan played for D'Antoni who didn't care to do that, he wouldn't be playing right now either.

[rhowen4]

for now, duncan since he's 38

we'll see where kobe ends up

[bigkingsfan]

One is still playing at a high level, one is a cripple, do the math.

[lakerspng]

both pretty amazing. Duncan has not suffered the same injuries as Kobe. Kobe's played at a higher (superstar) level for longer. Duncan's been more of a top tier role player than a superstar the last few seasons. Duncan has had a lot more stability and consistency around him for his career. 1 coach, 1 system. He's been the mainstay and rock for his team for 18 years, but he's had a very stable and enviable situation for that entire time as well as a slew of talented players to integrate into the system around him, some that have been around him for a decade (Gino, Parker). that doesn't happen very often.

[kennethgriffin]

check the guy with more all nba 1st teams and more all nba teams/ consecutive allstar appearances


duncan hasnt averaged over 20ppg since 2007

so its obvious his peak ended then since he averaged over 20ppg every year from 1998 till 2005

so duncan had a solid run of 8 years since he was a rookie being one of the top players in the nba


kobe on the other hand hit a near peak average of 30ppg in 2001 ( 28 regular season, 30ppg playoffs )

he bottomed out last year when he had his achilles injury

before that he averaged 27ppg all season.

so from 2001 till 2013 kobe was at peak level production


duncan peaked sooner and lasted 8 years

kobe peaked later and lasted 13 years


duncans 17th year = 15ppg, 9 rpg, 3apg ( no all nba team )

kobes 17th year = 27ppg, 6reb, 5apg ( 1st team all nba )

[kennethgriffin]

kobe basically retired a 1st team all nba player if he never recovers from the achilles.. at age 35... which is jordan like

[NumberSix]

Kobe. Both have played a lot of mileage and Duncan is very impressive for his age but Kobe has also dealt with a lot of lingering injuries he's played through in the past through straight Finals appearances. Before he got that German surgery, he virtually played through three straight finals with a bum leg and the usual finger issues.

Obviously people are going to look to right now as the be all and end all but if you want to be truthful, with the entire offense ran through Kobe for his entire career whereas Duncan has help offensively, Kobe lasted a lot longer health wise than he really should have. Wade already is breaking down while Kobe was still going head on when he was that age.

Duncan had Pop to manage his minutes, I guarantee you if Duncan played for D'Antoni who didn't care to do that, he wouldn't be playing right now either.
Injuries = lack of longevity.


It's easily Duncan. Duncan won a FMVP in 1999. In 2014 he's still making B2B finals. Kobe didn't really become a good player until 2001. By 2013 he was burnt out.

[K Xerxes]

Kobe. Both have played a lot of mileage and Duncan is very impressive for his age but Kobe has also dealt with a lot of lingering injuries he's played through in the past through straight Finals appearances. Before he got that German surgery, he virtually played through three straight finals with a bum leg and the usual finger issues.

Obviously people are going to look to right now as the be all and end all but if you want to be truthful, with the entire offense ran through Kobe for his entire career whereas Duncan has help offensively, Kobe lasted a lot longer health wise than he really should have. Wade already is breaking down while Kobe was still going head on when he was that age.

Duncan had Pop to manage his minutes, I guarantee you if Duncan played for D'Antoni who didn't care to do that, he wouldn't be playing right now either.

And? The defense is anchored around Duncan. Kobe stopped playing defense a couple of years ago. Also note that even with Pop managing Duncan's minutes, Duncan is older than Kobe and had 4 years of playing college. It all takes its toll.

Wade is breaking down because he has been more of a slasher throughout his career, and his meniscus was removed early on in his career.

I will give Kobe this: I've not seen anyone able to consistently perform well through a multitude of injuries in their career. His pain tolerance is ridiculous.

[kennethgriffin]

Injuries = lack of longevity.


It's easily Duncan. Duncan won a FMVP in 1999. In 2014 he's still making B2B finals. Kobe didn't really become a good player until 2001. By 2013 he was burnt out.

13 peak seasons > 8 peak seasons

[NumberSix]

13 peak seasons > 8 peak seasons
Kobe's peak was from about 2003-2009

[SCdac]

Dude who was ROTY in 1998 and isn't watching the playoffs from the sidelines 2 years in a row.

[konex]

Kobe cos until he got hurt, he was still a superstar

[MVBallin2K]

And? The defense is anchored around Duncan. Kobe stopped playing defense a couple of years ago. Also note that even with Pop managing Duncan's minutes, Duncan is older than Kobe and had 4 years of playing college. It all takes its toll.

Wade is breaking down because he has been more of a slasher throughout his career, and his meniscus was removed early on in his career.

I will give Kobe this: I've not seen anyone able to consistently perform well through a multitude of injuries in their career. His pain tolerance is ridiculous.

While I can get that, I really think people are ignoring the coaching aspect of this that truly effected it. While I won't argue that Kobe has been far from a lockdown defender for a long time, he was asked to guard quicker PG's on the floor in games that he played a LOT of the game for. This was not that long ago and Kobe was guarding Kyrie and Westbrook. Guys that were half his age and quicker than he was when he was their age, let alone in his mid 30's who were main options on offense for their teams.

That's why I'm saying that if you had Duncan in that same situation where he was playing way too many minutes, virtually entire games at points and guarding more athletic centers for multiple games in a row, he too probably wouldn't be playing right now. I'm not a Kobe stan attempting to argue blindly here, more so just trying to put into perspective I don't think it's automatically Duncan the way this thread would dictate. I have tons of respect for Duncan and think it's remarkable he even plays the way he does at his age but he's also had a smart coach who's taken care of him and created longevity for him smartly.

[NumberSix]

While I can get that, I really think people are ignoring the coaching aspect of this that truly effected it. While I won't argue that Kobe has been far from a lockdown defender for a long time, he was asked to guard quicker PG's on the floor in games that he played a LOT of the game for. This was not that long ago and Kobe was guarding Kyrie and Westbrook. Guys that were half his age and quicker than he was when he was their age, let alone in his mid 30's.

That's why I'm saying that if you had Duncan in that same situation where he was playing way too many minutes, virtually entire games at points and guarding more athletic centers for multiple games in a row, he too probably wouldn't be playing right now. I'm not a Kobe stan attempting to argue blindly here, more so just trying to put into perspective I don't think it's automatically Duncan the way this thread would dictate. I have tons of respect for Duncan and think it's remarkable he even plays the way he does at his age but he's also had a smart coach who's taken care of him and created longevity for him smartly.
Duncan had the common sense to not play when he doesn't need to. He has no interest in garbage time chucking to stat pad.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Up until last year, I would have said Kobe. He's been a better player than Duncan since '06, imo.

Really..the only difference is that, in the last 2-3 seasons, Duncan has been surrounded with more help.

[Eye Test]

Up until last year, I would have said Kobe. He's been a better player than Duncan since '06, imo.

Only difference is, in the last 2-3 seasons, Duncan has been surrounded with more help.

bingo

[kennethgriffin]

http://i60.tinypic.com/o09oq0.png

http://i60.tinypic.com/jphtog.png

kobe up until the achilles was at his peak averages

[Warfan]

Pointz1!1!! OMGGGG

[kennethgriffin]

Dude who was ROTY in 1998 and isn't watching the playoffs from the sidelines 2 years in a row.


duncan averaged 15ppg this season and kobe had a career ending injury


hop off that pipe bro

kobe a year ago was averaging 27 a game before that achilles tore off his leg lol

[talkingconch]

at this point its pretty even. You can say either has the edge, but most people will say Duncan because hes in the finals.

Kobe was a top 4 player while Duncan was not, people forget. Think about it, if Lebron is #1 the guy in his 15th season was like #3-#2 along with durant

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe's longevity: 2000-2013 = 14 Years... with 2 shit seasons ones between in 2004-2005, and nothing particularly good/special from 2011-onwards.

[kennethgriffin]

Pointz1!1!! OMGGGG
i'm sorry. i thought this discussion was about longevity


if duncans points dropped off midway through his career. then his longevity failed him


i'm not judging duncans points compared to kobes. ( that just wouldnt be fair at all cause kobe p*sses all over duncans ugly mug )


i'm judging duncans points compared to DUNCANS PRIME

[smoovegittar]

What's more impressive is how you manage to remain active here. I guess Jeff loves stupidity.

[Keno]

duncan and it's not even close.

[DFish24]

Kobe, he played at a higher level for longer all while averaging more MPG than Duncan for every year since '03.

[kennethgriffin]

duncan and it's not even close.

duncan hasnt been prime since 2007 though

going based on his expected output statistically he fell off

duncan his 17th year = 15/9/3

kobe his 17th year = 27/6/5





seriously is anyone even paying attention to facts? or just seeing the parkers spurs in the finals as duncans evidence?



f*cking retards! lmao

27 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15

kobe in his 17th season = first team all nba

duncan in his 17th season = NO F*cking all nba team


holy f*ck :facepalm

[kshutts1]

Well, since they're both retired from basketball, and neither one has had a meaningful game in about two years...

Oh. Wait.

Let's wait and see what happens. Duncan is still going moderately strong. Last we saw of Kobe, he was going strong. If memory serves, Kobe, at age 34, came back from a year-long injury after about 8 months. So I'm not too worried about his coming back next season. He'll be fine. Let's give this discussion about 5 years.

[Brokenbeat]

What's more impressive is how you manage to remain active here. I guess Jeff loves stupidity.


Silkk's a clown. Notice how his minions are the first to chime in on his dumbass threads too, lol. Then kennithgriffin takes the bait and makes it all worthwhile. Idiots, the lot of 'em. :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

i know points arent everything.. but my god at some point you gotta say


27ppg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 ppg


jesus christ. this isnt just a few points

last time kobe averaged 15ppg healthy was 1998 as a 6th man

[SOD 21]

This is where having a competent head coach like Greg Popovich is so important compared to the incompetency of Mike D'Antoni when he was managing Kobe Bryant's minutes prior to his Achilles tendon injury. Greg Popovich carefully manages the minutes of his players and that never would've happened under his guidance.

I understand that they were making a playoff push to make up for all the injuries that they had suffered that year. But it is absolutely ridiculous that you would play someone with that kind of mileage like a Kobe Bryant for 45 1/2 minutes a game for the last couple weeks of that season.

It is insane for a coach, hello D'Antoni, to play someone in their 16th season with that many playoff minutes under their belt for almost 48 minutes per game for weeks on end like D'Antoni did.

[Jailblazers7]

It's Kobe. Played bigger minutes for more years and they were probably harder minutes with the activity required from him on both ends of the floor. You don't see a SG's knees last this long for the most part.

The Spurs were very smart with how they managed Tim's minutes over the past 10 years.

[KG215]

i know points arent everything.. but my god at some point you gotta say


27ppg >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 15 ppg


jesus christ. this isnt just a few points

last time kobe averaged 15ppg healthy was 1998 as a 6th man
Yet another Duncan vs Kobe argument where you ramble on and on, page after page, about points while completely ignoring the other end of the court.

This is certainly debatable but, as always, you pick and choose what information you want to make your argument, try to beat it into everyone else's head with enlarged bold font, and think you're on to something because you repeat yourself over and over and over.

[SOD 21]

For what it is worth, Kobe Bryant has played 1800 more career minutes, regular season and playoffs, than Tim Duncan in their respective careers even with Kobe Bryant missing most of the last year.

[Cold soul]

Kobe has played at top 5 player level longer than Duncan has since 2008. Kobe by far overall has longevity edge over Duncan.

[K Xerxes]

While I can get that, I really think people are ignoring the coaching aspect of this that truly effected it. While I won't argue that Kobe has been far from a lockdown defender for a long time, he was asked to guard quicker PG's on the floor in games that he played a LOT of the game for. This was not that long ago and Kobe was guarding Kyrie and Westbrook. Guys that were half his age and quicker than he was when he was their age, let alone in his mid 30's who were main options on offense for their teams.

That's why I'm saying that if you had Duncan in that same situation where he was playing way too many minutes, virtually entire games at points and guarding more athletic centers for multiple games in a row, he too probably wouldn't be playing right now. I'm not a Kobe stan attempting to argue blindly here, more so just trying to put into perspective I don't think it's automatically Duncan the way this thread would dictate. I have tons of respect for Duncan and think it's remarkable he even plays the way he does at his age but he's also had a smart coach who's taken care of him and created longevity for him smartly.

Good points. I would have said Kobe at the end of last season with the way he was playing, but the injuries clearly have had a negative effect on his longevity, not to mention Duncan's has had somewhat of a resurgence in that time span too.

[outbreak]

Duncan hasn't been a detriment to his team for the last few seasons...

[Akrazotile]

The one that doesnt blame coaches, blame teammates, blame front office, demand trade, fake injuries, choke in the clutch, you get the pic.

Tim > K'Me

[veilside23]

picture it this way kobe without the lakers this year is pathetic

spurs without Duncan can still make the playoffs

there is your answer

[lakerspng]

As a side note, it's a lot easier to be an effective defender in the post as you age, than it is on the perimeter where you have to chase around young quick guys. Especially with the lack of great big men in today's game. Yes Duncan is a great defender but his job on defense is easier than Kobe's in today's NBA

[raiderfan19]

Look at Duncan's per 36 numbers. They are still pretty damn close to his MVP levels. Obviously pop and the system help with that, but that is still incredibly impression.

[DMAVS41]

Yet another Duncan vs Kobe argument where you ramble on and on, page after page, about points while completely ignoring the other end of the court.

This is certainly debatable but, as always, you pick and choose what information you want to make your argument, try to beat it into everyone else's head with enlarged bold font, and think you're on to something because you repeat yourself over and over and over.

You are too kind...it's not even debatable.

Duncan was elite from the jump...he was first team all nba in 98 (his first year) and was already amongst the games elite.

Kobe took until year 5 to reach that level. It took Kobe until 01 to get as good as Duncan was as a rookie.

LOL at people saying Duncan's prime ended in 07. Maybe his peak, but in 08 and 09 Duncan was still a beast. Duncan put up 20/13/3 in the playoffs in 08 and 09 combined.

If anything Kobe has done post 2010 is still considered prime or relevant...then Duncan in 08 and 09 is still prime. 2010...really 2011 is when Duncan declined.

Also, part of longevity is not getting hurt. Kobe has missed a lot more time than Duncan has over their careers and has battled way more injuries. Not only that, but also part of longevity, is being able to adopt different roles and adjust your game. Kobe has shown no ability or willingness to adjust his game for the best of his team.

This was a decent question after the 2011 season in which Kobe was still going strong (until the playoffs) and Duncan was considerably worse. Then Kobe has been hurt and missed the playoffs 2 years in a row while Duncan is the best player on a team in back to back finals...

It's easily Duncan at this point.

[DMAVS41]

As a side note, it's a lot easier to be an effective defender in the post as you age, than it is on the perimeter where you have to chase around young quick guys. Especially with the lack of great big men in today's game. Yes Duncan is a great defender but his job on defense is easier than Kobe's in today's NBA

Newsflash...being taller/bigger is often an advantage for playing basketball.

We don't grade on a curve for this shit. Lebron has huge built in advantages for arguments like that...doesn't change the fact that he is who he is.

Duncan may have built in advantages here. Means nothing for the ultimate question.

[Smoke117]

Duncan. It's a lot harder to stick around and be effective when you are 7 foot tall big man as opposed to a 6'5"-6'6" shooting guard.

[Mure]

Duncan and it isn't really close. Give me the guy who came in and dominated from the jump, and is still playing at a high level, over the guy who handed people water for 2 years. :lol :lol

[kennethgriffin]

Duncan. It's a lot harder to stick around and be effective when you are 7 foot tall big man as opposed to a 6'5"-6'6" shooting guard.






















:wtf:


a tall guy who doesnt need speed/quickness as much and can survive on length, power twice as much has shorter careers than a 2guard?


wtf are you smoking.. its way more rare for a high scoring guard to last 20 years than it is for a low scoring center. especially in todays league with a ton of depth at the wing position and none at the center position


you on crack bro?

[JellyBean]

Kobe. That dude has been playing since he was 18 years old in the league, clocking major minutes. He has played hurt and critically hurt.

[Noob Saibot]

the one who is the double double king in the playoffs.