What's wrong with teaming up?

[JT123]

Everyone acting like teaming up makes you less of a star, which is insane! Did Superman teaming up with Batman make him less of a hero? :confusedshrug:
When he stacked the deck in his favor by forming the JLA did anyone say they couldn't take him saving the world seriously?

[Black and White]

Whatever happened to beating some of the best players in your conference instead of teaming up with them to take out everyone else?

[Magic731]

Yes because saving the world is the same as winning a basketball game.

[buddha]

because the only reason these superstars are taking less money during their primes is because of their endorsements. it's not fair to other players who only source of income is their contract.

[Rodmantheman]

http://www.saferstates.com/images/Cooperation570b.jpg

[JT123]

Whatever happened to beating some of the best players in your conference instead of teaming up with them to take out everyone else?
But Bron has already beaten the best players in his conference, most of them multiple times. However, he is smart enough to realize that he isn't getting any younger. Wade can not be a championship level sidekick for much longer. Melo is also aging and running out of time to compete for a ring, so he and Lebron teaming up would be mutually beneficial. It's not like they are 25 and talking about joining up, they would be in their 12th or 13th seasons. :confusedshrug: Old men by NBA standards.

[BlazerRed]

Is it surprising this thread was made by a bandwagon CHeat fan?

[JT123]

Yes because saving the world is the same as winning a basketball game.
There are some who would say that if Superman was a real hero he would save the world by himself. But Superman realized that saving the World is a team oriented mission, so why not give himself the best chance to succeed by using the resources/heroes that were available. :rockon:

[Fudge]

Is it surprising this thread was made by a bandwagon CHeat fan?
:lol

[tmacattack33]

If Melo joins them in Miami i won't be rooting for them, now that would be a little too unfair and also kinda boring since we'd never see either of them score more than 40 points ever again since they won't need to.

But as far as we know, Lebron could join Carmelo somewhere else...probably not ny though since Lebron is smarter than that and knows NY has terrible management .

[ThePhantomCreep]

In b4 a LeBron homer argues that Terry/Chandler/Kidd is just as stacked as Melo/Wade/Bosh.

[Black and White]

But Bron has already beaten the best players in his conference, most of them multiple times. However, he is smart enough to realize that he isn't getting any younger. Wade can not be a championship level sidekick for much longer. Melo is also aging and running out of time to compete for a ring, so he and Lebron teaming up would be mutually beneficial. It's not like they are 25 and talking about joining up, they would be in their 12th or 13th seasons. :confusedshrug: Old men by NBA standards.

Sure, I get that the roster needs a change because of Wades health, but is jumping up to a player like Melos level really the right way? Whatever happened to getting right role players to fit the system? stacking the deck and further diluting the East isn't the right way to go, and whether you like it or not, Melo to Miami will give your Heat team no crediblity whatsoever and will not be taken seriously.

[dubeta]

The funny thing is that if the Heat drafted LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, no one would have a problem, but the second they sign together everyone throws down the word "Stacked". Like joining together makes it any more unfair than if you are all drafted together (Ibaka, harden, Dubeta, Westbrook)

[Black and White]

The funny thing is that if the Heat drafted LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, no one would have a problem, but the second they sign together everyone throws down the word "Stacked". Like joining together makes it any more unfair than if you are all drafted together (Ibaka, harden, Dubeta, Westbrook)

You really are showing how dumb you are by comparing the Miami situation to OKC :facepalm

[ralph_i_el]

There are some who would say that if Superman was a real hero he would save the world by himself. But Superman realized that saving the World is a team oriented mission, so why not give himself the best chance to succeed by using the resources/heroes that were available. :rockon:

yeah but the correct metaphor would be if Superman teamed up with his enemies and ruled metropolis which would be....bad

[Killbot]

Everyone acting like teaming up makes you less of a star, which is insane! Did Superman teaming up with Batman make him less of a hero? :confusedshrug:

Yes. He shared with Batman.

[BigBoss]

Nothing at all except your disqualified from solidifying your spot in the top 10.

[Smook A.]

I don't think super teams are a problem per say, you can build a super team in a variety of ways. However, I don't think that the reason you are able to build a super team should be because you can simply outspend everyone else, or because of market...

What really should have been done was substantially raising the max contract ceiling. Make it about 40 percent. If both Wade and James deserve a max, which they do, make it so that it's punitively hard to build a team around them, they wouldn't have been able to afford bosh, and good luck making a team around them with 20 percent of the cap.

The harder cap helps, so does the 3 year limit on extend and trades, and with 4 year contracts minus bird years, there is more incentive to stay for that extra 5th year and great raises, but the deal that big market teams get on superstars is the single biggest reason. Sign a superstar... fine, but make sure he'll damn well be so expensive that you can't make a stacked team around him. This would ensure better distribution of elite players, and would make it more feasible for a team of very good players, but not max level to challenge a team built around 1 or 2 max players.

Overall this deal will be better than the last for smaller market teams, they have money coming their way from a variety of sources, if they aren't losing money, they are more likely to invest in talent for their team, but the above would be the single best way to achieve a more equal playing field, and emphasize good management over just splurging money.

[JT123]

The funny thing is that if the Heat drafted LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, no one would have a problem, but the second they sign together everyone throws down the word "Stacked". Like joining together makes it any more unfair than if you are all drafted together (Ibaka, harden, Dubeta, Westbrook)
Very true. Durant playing alongside a top 5 player in his PRIME is perfectly acceptable, but Lebron playing with a one legged close to retirement Wade is considered unfair. :oldlol:

[dubeta]

You really are showing how dumb you are by comparing the Miami situation to OKC :facepalm

Yes OKC was even more stacked

[Black and White]

Yes OKC was even more stacked

Are you suggesting that a team making smart draft choices and developing players using a system is comparable to 3 all-stars (2 being superstars) teaming up in their primes via free agency???

[JT123]

I don't think super teams are a problem per say, you can build a super team in a variety of ways. However, I don't think that the reason you are able to build a super team should be because you can simply outspend everyone else, or because of market...
Outspending everyone else doesn't guarantee anything though. This year the Nets had the highest payroll in NBA history, yet all it "bought" them was 5 playoff wins. Look at last year's Lakers, another team with a higher payroll than Miami but they barely made the playoffs. You can't buy success in the NBA, you just have to sign the right types of players and hope they can mesh. Most of the super team attempts over the last 10-15 years haven't worked.

[DMV2]

The funny thing is that if the Heat drafted LeBron, Wade, and Bosh, no one would have a problem, but the second they sign together everyone throws down the word "Stacked". Like joining together makes it any more unfair than if you are all drafted together (Ibaka, harden, Dubeta, Westbrook)
Because we all knew Westbrook would be a Top 3 PG on draft night. :rolleyes:

We all knew Harden would become a lead scorer on a playoff team as indicated by this thread made 2 days before his trade. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279295

[Fudge]

I don't think super teams are a problem per say, you can build a super team in a variety of ways. However, I don't think that the reason you are able to build a super team should be because you can simply outspend everyone else, or because of market...

What really should have been done was substantially raising the max contract ceiling. Make it about 40 percent. If both Wade and James deserve a max, which they do, make it so that it's punitively hard to build a team around them, they wouldn't have been able to afford bosh, and good luck making a team around them with 20 percent of the cap.

The harder cap helps, so does the 3 year limit on extend and trades, and with 4 year contracts minus bird years, there is more incentive to stay for that extra 5th year and great raises, but the deal that big market teams get on superstars is the single biggest reason. Sign a superstar... fine, but make sure he'll damn well be so expensive that you can't make a stacked team around him. This would ensure better distribution of elite players, and would make it more feasible for a team of very good players, but not max level to challenge a team built around 1 or 2 max players.

Overall this deal will be better than the last for smaller market teams, they have money coming their way from a variety of sources, if they aren't losing money, they are more likely to invest in talent for their team, but the above would be the single best way to achieve a more equal playing field, and emphasize good management over just splurging money.
Where did you steal this post from Smookz

[Meticode]

While there's nothing against the rules on talent teaming up, I feel in the long-run it depletes the competitiveness in the league when you have players of this caliber all teaming up together when they're all pretty closely still in their primes or just exiting their primes.

[JT123]

Are you suggesting that a team making smart draft choices and developing players using a system is comparable to 3 all-stars (2 being superstars) teaming up in their primes via free agency???
What does it matter how your team is formed? :biggums:
Stacked is stacked, and both the Heat and Thunder have significant advantages over their competition in terms of top heavy talent. The Thunder more so because their two stars are in their primes. Free Agency exists for a reason, and people really need to stop acting like using it to make a great team is "wrong" :no:

[Chizdog]

I'd rather play with my friends than play with shit like Kobe.

[JT123]

Because we all knew Westbrook would be a Top 3 PG on draft night. :rolleyes:

We all knew Harden would become a lead scorer on a playoff team as indicated by this thread made 2 days before his trade. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=279295
So what is your argument? Are you saying that if they knew how good Westbrook and Harden would be they wouldn't have drafted them because they don't want a stacked team? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Smook A.]

Where did you steal this post from Smookz
lol I wrote it

[Black and White]

What does it matter how your team is formed? :biggums:
Stacked is stacked, and both the Heat and Thunder have significant advantages over their competition in terms of top heavy talent. The Thunder more so because their two stars are in their primes. Free Agency exists for a reason, and people really need to stop acting like using it to make a great team is "wrong" :no:

Its not a matter of who is "stacked" or not, its how it comes together, are you really going to knock the Thunder for drafting well??? You can't because they did it the right way, there was no guarantee that Westbrook and Harden were going to turn out the way they did, people were saying Westbrook was going to bust for gods sake.

Let me ask you this, if Durant, Griffin and Chris Paul teamed up in the free agency, would you like it?

[DMV2]

What does it matter how your team is formed? :biggums:
Stacked is stacked, and both the Heat and Thunder have significant advantages over their competition in terms of top heavy talent. The Thunder more so because their two stars are in their primes. Free Agency exists for a reason, and people really need to stop acting like using it to make a great team is "wrong" :no:
It does matter because nobody drafts potential amateurs knowing 100% sure they'll be drafting an All-Star, a Superstar. Those draftees become one after development, after the fact. Some also become busts.

All LeBron, we already knew he's an MVP caliber player. With Wade, we already knew his one of the greatest playoff performers. We already knew what we're getting with these guys.

[gts]

Where did you steal this post from Smookz

Real g m....thread titled "Super Teams and the death of the NBA"

[Smook A.]

Real g m....thread titled "Super Teams and the death of the NBA"
:applause:

[DMV2]

So what is your argument? Are you saying that if they knew how good Westbrook and Harden would be they wouldn't have drafted them because they don't want a stacked team? :roll: :roll: :roll:Was it that hard to comprehend?

Did you read the Harden thread? Almost all responses were saying he had no chance of being a leading scorer on a playoff team.

OKC could have drafted busts for all we know. They're going all in fully not knowing what the outcome of their draftees will be.

Signing a LeBron James type player, you know you're signing a 2-time MVP, the best player in the league.

That's the difference!

[sbw19]

Current era stars don't look at competing the way old-school legends do. Some like beating a game on easy-mode and get the job done, some don't. Be that as it may. Not everyone is the same.

What REALLY bothers me is the current structure of the Playoff seeding. Do away with seeding by conference and instead seed by record. No more super-team dominating weak conferences in the post-season kinda ish.

[JT123]

Its not a matter of who is "stacked" or not, its how it comes together, are you really going to knock the Thunder for drafting well??? You can't because they did it the right way, there was no guarantee that Westbrook and Harden were going to turn out the way they did, people were saying Westbrook was going to bust for gods sake.

Let me ask you this, if Durant, Griffin and Chris Paul teamed up in the free agency, would you like it?
I wouldn't like it, but only because Durant already has a top 5 player at his side. If Durant had spent the first 7 years of his career on a team like the Kings with no other star players then I would be fine with it. There is no guarantee that a team with Paul, KD, and Griffin would win a ring. Somebody's touches and numbers would fall off significantly, so they would still face a lot of challenges.

[Fudge]

Lol @ comparing OKC's roster to Miami's. They're nowhere close in terms of overall talent. Miami's by far the most stacked team since the 04 Lakers.

[Beastmode88]

Can't beat em join em. :facepalm

[gts]

never going to happen... this would entail all 4 taking a 10 million dollar per year pay cut...

[Beastmode88]

never going to happen... this would entail all 4 taking a 10 million dollar per year pay cut...

They make enough money from sponsorships and miami is tax free. cHeat will 4peat.

[JT123]

Lol @ comparing OKC's roster to Miami's. They're nowhere close in terms of overall talent.
Agreed.:cheers: Let's compare
Westbrook and Jackson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chalmers and Cole
Wade > Sefolosha
Ibaka >>>>>> Bosh (Ibaka provides everything Bosh does on offense plus elite rim proetction) :eek:
Perkins > Battier/Lewis (Perkins is the best post defender in the league)
Lebron > Durant (These 2 are equal in talent, Lebron just has more heart)

Add in Caron "3 point shooting machine" Butler and OKC is the league's most stacked team since Jordan's Bulls! :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Fudge]

Agreed.:cheers: Let's compare
Westbrook and Jackson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chalmers and Cole
Wade > Sefolosha
Ibaka >>>>>> Bosh (Ibaka provides everything Bosh does on offense plus elite rim proetction) :eek:
Perkins > Battier/Lewis (Perkins is the best post defender in the league)
Lebron > Durant (These 2 are equal in talent, Lebron just has more heart)

Add in Caron "3 point shooting machine" Butler and OKC is the league's most stacked team since Jordan's Bulls! :bowdown: :bowdown:
:roll:

Put your helmet back on, retardo.

[Black and White]

Agreed.:cheers: Let's compare
Westbrook and Jackson >>>>>>>>>>>>> Chalmers and Cole
Wade > Sefolosha
Ibaka >>>>>> Bosh (Ibaka provides everything Bosh does on offense plus elite rim proetction) :eek:
Perkins > Battier/Lewis (Perkins is the best post defender in the league)
Lebron > Durant (These 2 are equal in talent, Lebron just has more heart)

Add in Caron "3 point shooting machine" Butler and OKC is the league's most stacked team since Jordan's Bulls! :bowdown: :bowdown:

As seen in game 3.

[Threethrows]

Are you suggesting that a team making smart draft choices and developing players using a system is comparable to 3 all-stars (2 being superstars) teaming up in their primes via free agency???

Yeah, Boston drafted Garnet and Allen at just the right time! Let me guess trading is ok but free agency is not?

[JT123]

As seen in game 3.
What was wrong with his game 3? :wtf:
He didn't shoot a lot, but he didn't need to. The Heat as a team shot almost 52 percent. He knew he wasn't gonna outscore the Spurs by himself, and figured the best way to get the team to up the defensive intensity was to get them involved on offense. Hard to respect the intelligence of anyone who thinks last night's game would have been closer with him shot jacking the entire 2nd half.

[Black and White]

Yeah, Boston drafted Garnet and Allen at just the right time! Let me guess trading is ok but free agency is not?

Firstly, trading is fine, as two teams have to agree on it, if one team agrees to a deal and they get owned in it, is it the other teams fault?

Secondly, answer this, were KG, PP or Ray in their primes?

[JT123]

Yeah, Boston drafted Garnet and Allen at just the right time! Let me guess trading is ok but free agency is not?
I'm betting he will use the "they were old men" card. :rolleyes:
Allen was in his 12th season, same as Lebron will be next year. How come Lebron isn't considered old? :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

Firstly, trading is fine, as two teams have to agree on it, if one team agrees to a deal and they get owned in it, is it the other teams fault?

Secondly, answer this, were KG, PP or Ray in their primes?
That Garnett trade was as one sided as you can get. :lol :lol
What is the difference between a one sided trade and signing a free agent?
hint - there isn't one

[Black and White]

I'm betting he will use the "they were old men" card. :rolleyes:
Allen was in his 12th season, same as Lebron will be next year. How come Lebron isn't considered old? :confusedshrug:

Why are you going by seasons played, is that to make your argument seem legit? Ray was 32 I think when they came together, you acting like thats comparable???

[Black and White]

That Garnett trade was as one sided as you can get. :lol :lol
What is the difference between a one sided trade and signing a free agent?
hint - there isn't one

Because another franchise has to agree on it dumbass, nobody questions trades because its not just a single team doing it.

[Fudge]

JT123's melting down so bad, that he can't even type straight. N!gga's just grasping at straws now. :oldlol:

[Killbot]

I'm betting he will use the "they were old men" card. :rolleyes:
Allen was in his 12th season, same as Lebron will be next year. How come Lebron isn't considered old? :confusedshrug:
Because Lebron came into the league after High School and Allen came into the league after College Junior.

[JT123]

Why are you going by seasons played, is that to make your argument seem legit? Ray was 32 I think when they came together, you acting like thats comparable???
Because Lebron has wayyyyyyy more miles on his body now than Allen did at age 32, that is not even debatable. Playing in 4 straight Finals comes with a price, and Lebron will not be in Ray Allen shape when he turns Allen's age.

[Threethrows]

Firstly, trading is fine, as two teams have to agree on it, if one team agrees to a deal and they get owned in it, is it the other teams fault?

Secondly, answer this, were KG, PP or Ray in their primes?

Got it, so you hate it when the Celtics sign free agents.

[JT123]

JT123's melting down so bad, that he can't even type straight. N!gga's just grasping at straws now. :oldlol:
This nikka mad he can't refute any of my points. :oldlol:

[GimmeThat]

nothing.

besides it's bad for the jobs of the agents, or it creates a new type of agents.

does chemistry matter on the court? do players know which type of players that are best fit with without even playing with them?

the Detroit Pistons had thought that if he recruited past UConn players together, those players would have been able to create more with less. (although, their contracts certainly didn't suggest so)


without professionalism, players probably won't even last in the league. but without chemistry, players won't be winning.

I know we all hope that it wasn't this way.

But playoff basketball is sort of beastie that really puts pure system players in question.

[Black and White]

Because Lebron has wayyyyyyy more miles on his body now than Allen did at age 32, that is not even debatable. Playing in 4 straight Finals comes with a price, and Lebron will not be in Ray Allen shape when he turns Allen's age.

:biggums: what are you debating now???? Because you were debating about how the Celtics big 3 came together vs the way the Heat came together????

What does the 4 finals have to do with any of that, face it bro, you are losing this argument.

[Black and White]

Got it, so you hate it when the Celtics sign free agents.

You have no comeback, so you responded with this pathetic little statment, put your helmet back on and go cry in a corner.

[Threethrows]

You have no comeback, so you responded with this pathetic little statment, put your helmet back on and go cry in a corner.

Nice way to avoid my statement. Do you hate it when the Celtics sign free agents? That is my comeback, lets see yours. I would go cry in the corner but you've already painted yourself into it.

[Black and White]

Nice way to avoid my statement. Do you hate it when the Celtics sign free agents? That is my comeback, lets see yours.

If the Celtics went out in 2015 and signed Love, Durant and Westbrook, it would be good on paper but I wouldn't blame people for being angry about it.....

Thats the point, being able to distinguish between what goes against the spirit of the game.

And no, I have no problems with free agent signings considering its not often that superstars are signed TOGETHER

[Threethrows]

If the Celtics went out in 2015 and signed Love, Durant and Westbrook, it would be good on paper but I wouldn't blame people for being angry about it.....

Thats the point, being able to distinguish between what goes against the spirit of the game.

And no, I have no problems with free agent signings considering its not often that superstars are signed TOGETHER

So teams signing free agents that you deem are too good is against the spirit of the game? Sounds more like you're just butt hurt.

Nah, lets get a memo out to teams. No one sign anyone too good or else Black and White will accuse you of going against the spirit of the game. Apparently, trying to win isn't it. It's being fair to other teams.

[ThePhantomCreep]

LeBron, Wade and Bosh coming together via free agency is no different than the Pippen, Grant, and Jordan joining forces back in 1987. Remember how much shit Jordan got for that? Totally the same thing.

[Black and White]

So teams signing free agents that you deem are too good is against the spirit of the game? Sounds more like you're just butt hurt.

Nah, lets get a memo out to teams. No one sign anyone too good or else Black and White will accuse you of going against the spirit of the game. Apparently, trying to win isn't it. It's being fair to other teams.

Have you not seen how many people had issues with 3 all-stars coming together, did they do the wrong thing for themselves??? No, Miami has been a good marketing move for LeBron,

Now to this story, 4 all-stars coming together via free agency isn't against the spirit of the game???

[Threethrows]

Have you not seen how many people had issues with 3 all-stars coming together, did they do the wrong thing for themselves??? No, Miami has been a good marketing move for LeBron,

Now to this story, 4 all-stars coming together via free agency isn't against the spirit of the game???

Why would I care how many people have a problem with it? The masses are morons. Free agency is a legitimate way to build a team, they have succeeded big time.

Perhaps if Cleveland wasn't such a joke at putting a team around LeBron he would have stayed. He wasn't lucky enough to get a guy like Westbrook to join him through the draft, something players have no control over.

[Black and White]

Why would I care how many people have a problem with it? The masses are morons. Free agency is a legitimate way to build a team, they have succeeded big time.

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?

[Threethrows]

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?


Yes. If they want to win why not? Other "good" guys are applauded when they take pay cuts for the good of the team, but when the Heat do it, it's bad. Right.

Every player in the league has the right to take pay cuts for the good of the team.

[livinglegend]

Have you not seen how many people had issues with 3 all-stars coming together, did they do the wrong thing for themselves??? No, Miami has been a good marketing move for LeBron,

Now to this story, 4 all-stars coming together via free agency isn't against the spirit of the game???

They are the same people that have issues with anything that Lebron does.
Their opinion don't mean anything.
Heat didn't break any rules. As long as you don't break the rules, you are not going against the integrity of the game. Rules are there for a reason and that reason is to keep the integrity of the game.

[livinglegend]

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?

if they want paycut, it s their own choice. I dont have a problem as long as they respect the rules.

[G-train]

noobs....
Magic wouldn't leave college unless Lakers won coin toss so he could play with Kareem, Red stacked the Celtics, Suns traded for Barkley to team up with KJ, Barkley then teamed up with Dream and Clyde, after Clyde teamed up with Dream, Spurs didn't play Robinson once recovered to get a high draft pick and fell into an all time great so no team up required, Dwight teamed up with Kobe and Pau, KG teamed up with Pierce and Allen, Malone and Payton teamed up with Kobe and Shaq..... and that's just off top of my head in my life time.

Queue 'well Lebron and Bosh were in prime'..... they were also drafted to mediocre franchises, whose management while they were there and afterwards have proven to be poor.

[JT123]

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?
If the players main goal is to win, why not. Players should do what they want with their careers. You seem to think the players should do what is in the best interest of the fans of other teams. :no:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Why would I care how many people have a problem with it? The masses are morons. Free agency is a legitimate way to build a team, they have succeeded big time.

Perhaps if Cleveland wasn't such a joke at putting a team around LeBron he would have stayed. He wasn't lucky enough to get a guy like Westbrook to join him through the draft, something players have no control over.

Give the masses credit. They were smart enough to see The Decision for what it really was--a pitiful attempt by LeBron to win championships with as little effort as possible. He was crucified for it, and rightfully so. Add Melo to the mix and no one will take LeBron seriously again.

[livinglegend]

Firstly, trading is fine, as two teams have to agree on it, if one team agrees to a deal and they get owned in it, is it the other teams fault?

Secondly, answer this, were KG, PP or Ray in their primes?

So what if they were not in their primes? They were still good enough to dominate the league. Actually, they dominated the league way more than Heat in their 1st season together.

[Black and White]

Yes. If they want to win why not? Other "good" guys are applauded when they take pay cuts for the good of the team, but when the Heat do it, it's bad. Right.

Every player in the league has the right to take pay cuts for the good of the team.

If you are reffering to Duncan or what Dirk is about to do then its different, because they arent doing it to have a specific player sign with them, they are doing it because thats what they think is right for the team, they arent thinking about other players, for this Melo thing to work, all three of the Heat big three will have to opt-out and take paycuts to accomodate Melo, thats different.

[livinglegend]

Give the masses credit. They were smart enough to see The Decision for what it really was--a pitiful attempt by LeBron to win championships with as little effort as possible. He was crucified for it, and rightfully so. Add Melo to the mix and no one will take LeBron seriously again.

If Lebron can score 45 points in a game where his team is on verge of elimination with as little effort as possible, then he is the GOAT. :applause: :applause:

[Black and White]

noobs....
Magic wouldn't leave college unless Lakers won coin toss so he could play with Kareem, Red stacked the Celtics, Suns traded for Barkley to team up with KJ, Barkley then teamed up with Dream and Clyde, after Clyde teamed up with Dream, Spurs didn't play Robinson once recovered to get a high draft pick and fell into an all time great so no team up required, Dwight teamed up with Kobe and Pau, KG teamed up with Pierce and Allen, Malone and Payton teamed up with Kobe and Shaq..... and that's just off top of my head in my life time.

Queue 'well Lebron and Bosh were in prime'..... they were also drafted to mediocre franchises, whose management while they were there and afterwards have proven to be poor.

You might want to re-phrase this statement.....

[ThePhantomCreep]

If Lebron can score 45 points in a game where his team is on verge of elimination with as little effort as possible, then he is the GOAT. :applause: :applause:

If LeBron has to score 45 points just so his super-stacked team avoids elimination at the hands of the ancient Celtics, maybe Cleveland wasn't the problem after all.

[NumberSix]

Whatever happened to beating some of the best players in your conference instead of teaming up with them to take out everyone else?
It's a team sport. Not player vs player.

[Black and White]

So what if they were not in their primes? They were still good enough to dominate the league. Actually, they dominated the league way more than Heat in their 1st season together.

That was because the Celtics had the right types of players in specific positions, not to mention the defensive focus, its all about context,

Doc is a much better coach than Spo, he was able to get them clicking much quicker.

[The-Legend-24]

As seen in game 3.
:roll:

[MVBallin2K]

The funny part is the Lebron stans who like to downplay Kobe always use that he had Shaq and Gasol as teammates. You even try to argue that Kobe was above Gasol and the star, you get pointed at the 2010 Finals as "proof".

So it's okay to discredit Kobe for teaming with Gasol and apparently being saved by him but it's not okay to discredit Lebron for Ray Allen last year and being with Wade and Bosh, potentially Melo next year. See to me, this makes NO sense at all. According to Threethrows, you can never use the Kwame trade argument either because it was within the rules for the Lakers to do.

You gotta take that into account when it comes to legacy for Lebron the same way you do anyone else that got scrutinized for it. You can't just say one thing for one player because he's your favorite and ignore the opinion of the others.

[Threethrows]

If you are reffering to Duncan or what Dirk is about to do then its different, because they arent doing it to have a specific player sign with them, they are doing it because thats what they think is right for the team, they arent thinking about other players, for this Melo thing to work, all three of the Heat big three will have to opt-out and take paycuts to accomodate Melo, thats different.

It's different to you, because it could make a team you hate even better.

Teams plan for free agency classes a few years in advance with targets in mind all the time. If they figure out a way to put together the best team they can without breaking any rules then they are fully within their rights to do so without violating the "spirit of the game".

Since you brought up Dirk how do you know he doesn't have a specific guy in mind? You think he isn't aware of the Melo situation?

[Black and White]

if they want paycut, it s their own choice. I dont have a problem as long as they respect the rules.

And how is that fair on players that are locked in contracts in small market teams that have no shot at star free agents???

[Threethrows]

And how is that fair on players that are locked in contracts in small market teams that have no shot at star free agents???

That's the fault of that player or team. When that player has a chance next time between contracts he can remedy the situation the best he see's fit.

[Black and White]

It's different to you, because it could make a team you hate even better.

Teams plan for free agency classes a few years in advance with targets in mind all the time. If they figure out a way to put together the best team they can without breaking any rules then they are fully within their rights to do so without violating the "spirit of the game".

Since you brought up Dirk how do you know he doesn't have a specific guy in mind? You think he isn't aware of the Melo situation?

He is aware of it, but do you see him talking to the media about it the way LeBron is???? No, Dirk has already stated he won't get a Kobe-like extension, so its a given that his new deal is smaller, he puts it in the hands of his management to go out and make the right moves.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's lame

[Black and White]

That's the fault of that player or team. When that player has a chance next time between contracts he can remedy the situation the best he see's fit.

So basically, your idea of the way the league should operate is a player should get drafted, count money for 7 seasons or so, opt-out, speak to the best talent of his draft class, find a landing spot, sign there and steamroll the league????

Rinse and repeat for the next best players etc

[97 bulls]

I like the way Ne1 explained it in another thread. To paraphrase, he basically stated that its bad when a player is not trying to be the best by beating the best. Instead, the player would rather join the best.

The whole idea of sport is competition. Its not exciting when there isnt any.

[houston]

nothing wrong you always want to put yourself in the position to win

[Threethrows]

He is aware of it, but do you see him talking to the media about it the way LeBron is????

Oh... I see


No, Dirk has already stated he won't get a Kobe-like extension

Ok... but I guess it's only if he talks about it the way Lebron is that it's bad.


, so its a given that his new deal is smaller, he puts it in the hands of his management to go out and make the right moves.

Right, he's taking less money for the sake of a better team. You're getting it. :applause:

In case you didn't know, the free agent that comes to the Heat is the one choosing to go there, LeBron can't force people into it. Ultimately it comes down to that free agent making their decision and the Heat doing everything they can to accommodate it, same as any free agent deal.

[Threethrows]

I like the way Ne1 explained it in another thread. To paraphrase, he basically stated that its bad when a player is not trying to be the best by beating the best. Instead, the player would rather join the best.

The whole idea of sport is competition. Its not exciting when there isnt any.

Right, and basketball is a TEAM sport. I don't remember Wade and Bosh's teams beating up on LeBron a bunch.

And FWIW. If Rose was healthy and Dwight stayed East there would be more competition. Not to mention Melo's team under performing huge and the Nets having a relatively weak season. There should have been more competition, would have still been plenty even with this Heat team if things went as planned for others.

[97 bulls]

nothing wrong you always want to put yourself in the position to win
That's not sport though. Competition makes winning special.

[Black and White]

Oh... I see



Ok... but I guess it's only if he talks about it the way Lebron is that it's bad.



Right, he's taking less money for the sake of a better team. You're getting it. :applause:

In case you didn't know, the free agent that comes to the Heat is the one choosing to go there, LeBron can't force people into it. Ultimately it comes down to that free agent making their decision and the Heat doing everything they can to accommodate it, same as any free agent deal.

Ok, firstly, read through the thread, I already said Melo would get flamed by the media.

Secondly, the whole big three re-structuring their deals to make this work makes them just as much to blame as Melo, LeBron would have to fall well below market value to make this work, same as Bosh, Wade is the one I'm not too sure about, his value is tough to gauge.

I havent heard Dirk say one word about Melo, he knows how this works, his management will do the job.

[NumberSix]

I like the way Ne1 explained it in another thread. To paraphrase, he basically stated that its bad when a player is not trying to be the best by beating the best. Instead, the player would rather join the best.

The whole idea of sport is competition. Its not exciting when there isnt any.
And that's the Melo Knicks?

[Droid101]

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?
lel

This dude thinks LeBron, CP3, Griffin, Love, Anthony Davis, Curry, Dwight, Melo, Wall, and maybe a couple of others should all sign for the minimum salary to play together.

[NumberSix]

That's not sport though. Competition makes winning special.
It's IS competition you fυcking idiot. The idea is to be the best team, not the best player. :hammerhead:


Best team = best collection players :hammerhead:

[livinglegend]

That was because the Celtics had the right types of players in specific positions, not to mention the defensive focus, its all about context,

Doc is a much better coach than Spo, he was able to get them clicking much quicker.

You don't make sense. Your main argument is that Heat hurt the competitive spirit of the game by team up in their prime.

Now lets look at the facts, do they favor your argument?:
Heat first season together: not even 1st seed on their conference, didnt even won championship.

Celtics first season together: Dominated regular season, Championship.

No, they dont favor your argument.

[97 bulls]

Right, and basketball is a TEAM sport. I don't remember Wade and Bosh's teams beating up on LeBron a bunch.

And FWIW. If Rose was healthy and Dwight stayed East there would be more competition. Not to mention Melo's team under performing huge and the Nets having a relatively weak season. There should have been more competition, would have still been plenty even with this Heat team if things went as planned for others.
I can't say that I disagree with you. I see both sides of the coin. In my opinion, Magic did something similar when he said had he not been drafted by the Lakers, he would've went back to College. With the reason being that he wanted to play with Jabaar who was the best player at the time. Or when Kobe Bryant demanded said he wanted to go to Chicago and play with Deng and Gordon.

[NumberSix]

So you are saying people taking paycuts to team up and win vs players that stay on teams and try win with what they have is fair?

Are you suggesting that all players should take paycuts and join up to win?
Yes.

[livinglegend]

That's not sport though. Competition makes winning special.

It was clear the MJ s Bulls were way better than their competition. That team was a contender without their best player. Why didn't MJ change his team? Wouldn't competition make his winning more special?

[NumberSix]

It was clear the MJ s Bulls were way better than their competition. That team was a contender without their best player. Why didn't MJ change his team? Wouldn't competition make his winning more special?
Shhhhh!!!! We're supposed to pretend Jordan played on a really bad team with no help. We are supposed to pretend that Rose had really bad team mates too



#Chicago

[Black and White]

You don't make sense. Your main argument is that Heat hurt the competitive spirit of the game by team up in their prime.

Now lets look at the facts, do they favor your argument?:
Heat first season together: not even 1st seed on their conference, didnt even won championship.

Celtics first season together: Dominated regular season, Championship.

No, they dont favor your argument.

This is because you aren't using context, the Celtics got off to a hot start, the Heat didnt, they were a bit shaky (call it a feeling out period) which lead to not finishing with the best record, but, nobody will question that the second half of the season and through the playoffs they were great, they made the finals in their first season, how is that not a success?? if LeBron didn't choke you wouldn't even have this argument because the Heat would have won the title.


Also are you forgetting that the Celtics went to game 7 v atlanta?? They got it done, but it wasnt easy by any means.

[livinglegend]

This is because you aren't using context, the Celtics got off to a hot start, the Heat didnt, they were a bit shaky (call it a feeling out period) which lead to not finishing with the best record, but, nobody will question that the second half of the season and through the playoffs they were great, they made the finals in their first season, how is that not a success?? if LeBron didn't choke you wouldn't even have this argument because the Heat would have won the title.


Also are you forgetting that the Celtics went to game 7 v atlanta?? They got it done, but it wasnt easy by any means.

Are you trying to tell me that 2011 Heat was better 2008 Celtics? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Are you trying to tell me that 2011 Heat was better 2008 Celtics? :oldlol: :oldlol:
Who cares if they were or weren't?

[97 bulls]

It's IS competition you fυcking idiot. The idea is to be the best team, not the best player. :hammerhead:


Best team = best collection players :hammerhead:
I see your point. It's hard to penalize the Heat big three when really, theyre no more talented than any of the other great dynasties before them. The problem people have is when established players start conspiring to play together. If Wade, James, and Bosh were drafted by the Heat, this wouldnt be an issue. But then we wouldn't look at them the same way.

[Ne 1]

Perhaps if Cleveland wasn't such a joke at putting a team around LeBron he would have stayed.
Well who knows how well that 2010 Cavs team does if LeBron doesn't visibly quit and pout vs Boston. Even Delonte West played better than LeBron during that infamous game 5 where he gave up on his team before the series was over. Know we will never know now what their capabilities were. Did LeBron have a superstar co-runner with the Cavs? No, but he had well built teams with appropriate pieces that fit and complimented LeBron's game, strengths and playing style. They were always a top defensive and top rebounding team under Mike Brown (look at the Cavs turn around after they hired him) and in LeBron's last two years, one of the top 3 point shooting teams. Also, if the Cavs were suck a joke how was it that they managed to stay competitive with the Celtics in the playoffs when Lebron shot 2-20 and had 10 turnovers? Seemed like everybody was fine with the Cavs supporting cast when they won 66 games, they were happy with the supporting cast when they were 1 win away from being undefeated at home, nothing was wrong with the supporting cast when they were killing the Bulls, Pistons and Hawks in the playoffs, but as soon as they lose to Orlando and Boston the excuse is that Lebron was playing with a bunch of worthless bums? What's the excuse for 2011?

[Black and White]

Are you trying to tell me that 2011 Heat was better 2008 Celtics? :oldlol: :oldlol:

No I'm saying that you are trying to palm the 2011 Heat off as some scrub team and acting like they didnt find their groove in the back half of the season, this is a typical example of someone not being able to read a post.

[NumberSix]

I see your point. It's hard to penalize the Heat big three when really, theyre no more talented than any of the other great dynasties before them. The problem people have is when established players start conspiring to play together. If Wade, James, and Bosh were drafted by the Heat, this wouldnt be an issue. But then we wouldn't look at them the same way.
It isnt an issue now.

[NumberSix]

No I'm saying that you are trying to palm the 2011 Heat off as some scrub team and acting like they didnt find their groove in the back half of the season, this is a typical example of someone not being able to read a post.
:wtf:

[livinglegend]

Who cares if they were or weren't?

Well, his whole argument is that Heat hurt the competitive spirit of the game by team up. If 2011 heat were worse than 2008 Celtics then, Celtics hurt the competitive spirit of the game more than Heat by team up. That exposes his double standards and that the only reason why he is arguing is because he is butthurt that Lebron has been owning his team for the past 3 years.

[97 bulls]

It was clear the MJ s Bulls were way better than their competition. That team was a contender without their best player. Why didn't MJ change his team? Wouldn't competition make his winning more special?
They were obviously. The only difference is they weren't established like the Heat players were before joing together. Not saying one way is better than another. I just see both sides

[Black and White]

It isnt an issue now.

People don't see it that way, but the issue here is Melo joining the big three and the way that they will do it (if it happens)

[NumberSix]

Well, his whole argument is that Heat hurt the competitive spirit of the game by team up. If 2011 heat were worse than 2008 Celtics then, Celtics hurt the competitive spirit of the game more than Heat. That exposes his double standards and that the only reason why he is arguing is because he is butthurt that Lebron has been owning his team for the past 3 years.
Aren't all 30 teams..... TEAMS? :confusedshrug:

[97 bulls]

It isnt an issue now.
It isn't an issue to you.

[NumberSix]

It isn't an issue to you.
It isn't an issue to anyone but 30-40 numbskulls on Internet forums.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Shhhhh!!!! We're supposed to pretend Jordan played on a really bad team with no help. We are supposed to pretend that Rose had really bad team mates too



#Chicago

We're supposed to pretend that Melo joining the Heat is no different than the Bulls signing Bison Dele back for the '96-'97 season.

Oh wait...

[livinglegend]

They were obviously. The only difference is they weren't established like the Heat players were before joing together. Not saying one way is better than another. I just see both sides

different processes, same results. If people have a problem with Heat because of they hurt the competition then they should have problems with all the dynasties.

[Black and White]

Well, his whole argument is that Heat hurt the competitive spirit of the game by team up. If 2011 heat were worse than 2008 Celtics then, Celtics hurt the competitive spirit of the game more than Heat by team up. That exposes his double standards and that the only reason why he is arguing is because he is butthurt that Lebron has been owning his team for the past 3 years.

You don't understand context do you?

Ask yourself why the Celtics were better, its because of culture and the defensive focus + coaching staff.

I would like to see you try and tell me that KG, PP and Ray > LeBron, Wade and Bosh,

go ahead, I would like to hear it.

[NumberSix]

You don't understand context do you?

Ask yourself why the Celtics were better, its because of culture and the defensive focus + coaching staff.

I would like to see you try and tell me that KG, PP and Ray > LeBron, Wade and Bosh,

go ahead, I would like to hear it.
Nope.

[livinglegend]

Aren't all 30 teams..... TEAMS? :confusedshrug:

you should ask that to him. I don't have any problem with Heat or Celtics. I m okay with all the teams as long as they s follow the rules to make their team.

[Cold soul]

It hurts the league as a whole especially the small market teams. It gives the impression of hey let's join forces instead of beating each other it's simple and much easier. It cheapens the NBA championship when the majority of NBA superstars team up on one team. The whole idea of sport is competition not taking the easier way out.

[livinglegend]

You don't understand context do you?

Ask yourself why the Celtics were better, its because of culture and the defensive focus + coaching staff.

I would like to see you try and tell me that KG, PP and Ray > LeBron, Wade and Bosh,

go ahead, I would like to hear it.

When did the NBA change their format to 3 on 3?

[97 bulls]

different processes, same results. If people have a problem with Heat because of they hurt the competition then they should have problems with all the dynasties.
Your right bro. I honestly don't see anything wrong with what they did. I do feel Melo joining would be kinda chicken.

[NumberSix]

you should ask that to him. I don't have any problem with Heat or Celtics. I m okay with all the teams as long as they s follow the rules to make their team.
Every team in the league is trying to put together the most stacked roster they possibly can. What retard doesn't know that? Pat Riley and the Heat just did a better job.

These butthurt fools can try with their disingenuous "spirit of competition" argument all they want. I'm not even entertaining their masquerade. They're sick of a team they don't like being on top. Nothing more.

[Black and White]

When did the NBA change their format to 3 on 3?

This is what you are trying to do, you are trying to say that the 2011 Heat is less stacked than the 2008 Celtics, the 2011 Heat were much more top heavy and had more talent on the squad, the Celtics played as a team and thats why it worked from the get go, give credit to Doc and Thibs for that,

Don't act like the 2011 Heat didnt succeed, they made the finals and only failed because of a choke job.

[livinglegend]

Every team in the league is trying to put together the most stacked roster they possibly can. What retard doesn't know that? Pat Riley and the Heat just did a better job.

These butthurt fools can try with their disingenuous "spirit of competition" argument all they want. I'm not even entertaining their masquerade. They're sick of a team they don't like being on top. Nothing more.
:applause: :applause:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Your right bro. I honestly don't see anything wrong with what they did. I do feel Melo joining would be kinda chicken.

I don't see much difference between Jordan/Pippen/Grant/Armstrong and LeBron/Wade/Melo/Bosh.

[Black and White]

Every team in the league is trying to put together the most stacked roster they possibly can. What retard doesn't know that? Pat Riley and the Heat just did a better job.

These butthurt fools can try with their disingenuous "spirit of competition" argument all they want. I'm not even entertaining their masquerade. They're sick of a team they don't like being on top. Nothing more.

Dude, read back in this thread, I said LeBron did the right thing for himself, my issue lies with the Melo situation.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Every team in the league is trying to put together the most stacked roster they possibly can. What retard doesn't know that? Pat Riley and the Heat just did a better job.

These butthurt fools can try with their disingenuous "spirit of competition" argument all they want. I'm not even entertaining their masquerade. They're sick of a team they don't like being on top. Nothing more.

Wait, there are people who think the Big 3 wasn't formed via collusion? :roll:

[livinglegend]

This is what you are trying to do, you are trying to say that the 2011 Heat is less stacked than the 2008 Celtics, the 2011 Heat were much more top heavy and had more talent on the squad, the Celtics played as a team and thats why it worked from the get go, give credit to Doc and Thibs for that,

Don't act like the 2011 Heat didnt succeed, they made the finals and only failed because of a choke job.

Then, according to your logic, they shouldnt have played as a team. Playing as a team put them above the other teams in the league. That hurts the competition. What you say about that?

[NumberSix]

Wait, there are people who think the Big 3 wasn't formed via collusion? :roll:
Now tell me why I should care about collusion. :confusedshrug:

[livinglegend]

:roll:
Wait, there are people who think the Big 3 wasn't formed via collusion? :roll:

you cant collude without breaking any rules.

next:roll:

[Black and White]

Then, according to your logic, they shouldnt have played as a team. Playing as a team put them above the other teams in the league. That hurts the competition. What you say about that?

No.... I'm explaining why the Celtics were deemed to have done better in their first season as opposed to the Heat, if LeBron didn't choke you wouldnt even be able to debate this and that is a fact you cannot dispute.

[NumberSix]

No.... I'm explaining why the Celtics were deemed to have done better in their first season as opposed to the Heat, if LeBron didn't choke you wouldnt even be able to debate this and that is a fact you cannot dispute.
Why are you trying to argue that your own team isn't that good?

I'm a heat fan. Yeah, my team is better than yours. Why would I argue that my team is worse than yours!

[97 bulls]

I don't see much difference between Jordan/Pippen/Grant/Armstrong and LeBron/Wade/Melo/Bosh.
Wow really? Which one of the Heat four is comparable to Armstrong?

[NumberSix]

Wow really? Which one of the Heat four is comparable to Armstrong?
I agree. LeBron Heat > Jordan Bulls.

[Black and White]

Why are you trying to argue that your own team isn't that good?

I'm a heat fan. Yeah, my team is better than yours. Why would I argue that my team is worse than yours!

I haven't once said that my team isn't that good, I don't know where you got that from, what I have been saying is that the 2011 Heat had more talent than the 2008 Celtics, if you want to debate coaching, then ours was better, if you cannot see my point then there is not point trying to debate this with you.

[ThePhantomCreep]

I agree. LeBron Heat > Jordan Bulls.

Calling them "LeBron Heat" is a joke in and of itself.

Call them "All-Star Heat" or something. Don't even entertain this hypothetical as possibly being a boost to LeBron's individual legacy.

[NumberSix]

I haven't once said that my team isn't that good, I don't know where you got that from, what I have been saying is that the 2011 Heat had more talent than the 2008 Celtics, if you want to debate coaching, then ours was better, if you cannot see my point then there is not point trying to debate this with you.
Heat > Celtics. You apparently agree, so there no need for further discussion.

[NumberSix]

Calling them "LeBron Heat" is a joke in and of itself.

Call them "All-Star Heat" or something. Don't even entertain this hypothetical as possibly being a boost to LeBron's individual legacy.
Let somebody else on the team win an MVP and then we'll consider a name other than the LeBron Heat.

[Black and White]

Heat > Celtics. You apparently agree, so there no need for further discussion.

You are trying to change what I said to suit your agenda, I said the Heat have more TALENT than the Celtics do, and that isn't debateable, we just happened to win while your superstar choked.

[97 bulls]

I agree. LeBron Heat > Jordan Bulls.
Possibly if they add Carmello Anthony.

[chazzy]

If Melo joins them in Miami i won't be rooting for them
Yeah right. 'Til death do you and Bron part

:roll:

you cant collude without breaking any rules.

next:roll:
No such thing as tampering between players

[NumberSix]

You are trying to change what I said to suit your agenda, I said the Heat have more TALENT than the Celtics do, and that isn't debateable, we just happened to win while your superstar choked.
I have no agenda. I'm saying Miami is better than Boston. However you wanna phrase it. Better team, more talent, whatever. I'm being as clear as I possibly can.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Let somebody else on the team win an MVP and then we'll consider a name other than the LeBron Heat.

Thanks. I knew your attempts to paint yourself as a team-first fan were pure bullshit. There's no such thing as a team-first Heat fan :lol .

Now that we've seen through your facade, we can discuss how incredibly damaging adding Melo would be to LeBron's legacy. I doubt he would even want this, on account of how bad he'd look. Forming super-stacked teams because you want to cakewalk to easy titles does not a legend make.

[Black and White]

I have no agenda. I'm saying Miami is better than Boston. However you wanna phrase it. Better team, more talent, whatever. I'm being as clear as I possibly can.

As a team, the 2008 Celtics would beat the 2011 Heat, because they play better and really expose the Heats weaknesses,

but yea, talent wise, Heat > Celtics.

[Mrofir]

:wtf:


yeah man stop trying to plantain the Heat off as some scrub team, you really should aloe for more critical thinking

[NumberSix]

Thanks. I knew your attempts to paint yourself as a team-first fan were pure bullshit. There's no such thing as a team-first Heat fan :lol .

Now that we've seen through your facade, we can discuss how incredibly damaging adding Melo would be to LeBron's legacy. I doubt he would even want this, on account of how bad he'd look. Forming super-stacked teams because you want to cakewalk to easy titles does not a legend make.
Don't care. Add Melo to the team. I'm not worried about 10 mouth breathers online saying "deeez rings doesn't counts because LeBron and Melo was on da same teem". I'll count rings while you count tears.

[Mrofir]

Don't care. Add Melo to the team. I'm not worried about 10 mouth breathers online saying "deeez rings doesn't counts because LeBron and Melo was on da same teem". I'll count rings while you count tears.


how many of the rings do you get?

[NumberSix]

As a team, the 2008 Celtics would beat the 2011 Heat, because they play better and really expose the Heats weaknesses,

but yea, talent wise, Heat > Celtics.
Yeah, ok. Boston has less talent but is better. Sure. And you have a smaller dick but you fυck deeper.

:roll:

[NumberSix]

how many of the rings do you get?
I'm a fan. I'm not on the team.

[tpols]

Yeah, ok. Boston has less talent by is better. Sure. And you have a smaller dick but you fυck deeper.

:roll:

Dallas had less talent than the Heat(not even debateable) and they beat them.

They have still have to play the games.

[Eye Test]

"whats wrong with teaming up" ....

lebron has really ruined the younger generations :facepalm

[NumberSix]

Dallas had less talent than the Heat(not even debateable) and they beat them.

They have still have to play the games.
None of us actually believe Dallas was the better team. Come on now.

[Mrofir]

I'm a fan. I'm not on the team.


Then stop trying to prom their success as yours

[NumberSix]

"whats wrong with teaming up" ....

lebron has really ruined the younger generations :facepalm
Yeah. Making it cool to be a team player instead of a hero balling selfish chucker. Yeah, he sure fυcked us over with that.

[Black and White]

Yeah, ok. Boston has less talent by is better. Sure. And you have a smaller dick but you fυck deeper.

:roll:

I will use an example, a recent one so its easy,

2011 Mavs v 2011 Heat,

one has more talent, but the one with less talent won. Guess which one was favoured? its possible for good teams to lose, its all about matchups, there is no question the Celtics matchup well against the Heat, a broken down version of the Celtics took the Heat to 7 games in 2012, if you take 4 years off that squad, they win.

[Eye Test]

Yeah. Making it cool to be a team player instead of a hero balling selfish chucker. Yeah, he sure fυcked us over with that.

you know what i meant numero seis, its not about the style of play :facepalm

[NumberSix]

I will use an example, a recent one so its easy,

2011 Mavs v 2011 Heat,

one has more talent, but the one with less talent won. Guess which one was favoured? its possible for good teams to lose, its all about matchups, there is no question the Celtics matchup well against the Heat, a broken down version of the Celtics took the Heat to 7 games in 2012, if you take 4 years off that squad, they win.
Bosh was injured. Otherwise it would have been Heat in 5...... Again

[Black and White]

Bosh was injured. Otherwise it would have been Heat in 5...... Again

Bosh came back, Ray, PP and KG were all dealing with injuries too :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Bosh came back, Ray, PP and KG were all dealing with injuries too :oldlol:
I'm not interested in your idiotic "heat are more stacked but would lose" rantings. Your inconsistent duelling agendas are not my problem.

[knicksman]

not surprised OP is just a player fan instead of NBA fan. Thats expected from the biggest beta on ISH

[Black and White]

I'm not interested in your idiotic "heat are more stacked but would lose" rantings. Your inconsistent duelling agendas are not my problem.

Clearly you cannot grasp the concept of matchups, OKC would be seen as more stacked than the Spurs, did they win??????

[Cold soul]

None of us actually believe Dallas was the better team. Come on now.

Some did ala Dallas Mavericks fans but the majority no.

[livinglegend]

Yeah, ok. Boston has less talent but is better. Sure. And you have a smaller dick but you fυck deeper.

:roll:
:oldlol: :oldlol:

[NumberSix]

Clearly you cannot grasp the concept of matchups, OKC would be seen as more stacked than the Spurs, did they win??????
Would they? :confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

Would they? :confusedshrug:

People have been saying it all season, talent on paper, OKC > Spurs, but they lost because the Spurs know how to play together and have a great coaching system.

[Cold soul]

People have been saying it all season, talent on paper, OKC > Spurs, but they lost because the Spurs know how to play together and have a great coaching system.

Also matchups matter too. The Spurs were a terrible matchup nightmare for OKC across the board.

[97 bulls]

Clearly you cannot grasp the concept of matchups, OKC would be seen as more stacked than the Spurs, did they win??????
Another example would be the 2004 dreamteam. They obviously were more talented than any other team in the Olympics. How did that work out?

[Black and White]

Also matchups matter too. The Spurs were a terrible matchup nightmare for OKC across the board.

Exactly, the Thunder are way more stacked, there is nobody on the Spurs that come close to Westbrook/Durant, but the problem is that they are too top heavy and don't have the right system/play style in place to make it work (coaching), they were beaten by a team that matches up better and runs a better system, how NumberSix can't understand this concept in relation to the 2008 Celtics vs the 2011 Heat amazes me.

[Black and White]

Another example would be the 2004 dreamteam. They obviously were more talented than any other team in the Olympics. How did that work out?

Exactly :cheers:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Also matchups matter too. The Spurs were a terrible matchup nightmare for OKC across the board.

Sometimes they matter. Most of the time the more talented team wins.

Stick three franchise players on one team and they should never have an excuse for losing.

[Black and White]

Sometimes they matter. Most of the time the more talented team wins.

Stick three franchise players on one team and they should never have an excuse for losing.

Just wait and see what happens if the Spurs win......

[ThePhantomCreep]

Yeah. Making it cool to be a team player instead of a hero balling selfish chucker. Yeah, he sure fυcked us over with that.


By marginalizing the talents of everyone around him, turning them into spot-up shooters. Sure thing. The funny thing is, Melo will sign, turn into a 16/6 player, and then LeBron stans will claim he magically hit the wall one year removed from a 28/8 season. Dummies.

Beyond that, LeBron epitomizes the age of entitlement we live in perfectly. He's no hero.

"Work hard for titles? Me? I'm LeBron James!"

[houston]

That's not sport though. Competition makes winning special.


no it doesn't lol like the heat didn't have no comp when it came to winning. NBA has always been about dominating your comp sheesh you a Bulls fan for crying out loud

[Combat Wombat]

I don't know why any of you waste your time with NumberSix. He's the the most fake fan on this forum.

The dildo claims he's a Laker and Heat fan, conveniently the two franchises who have 4 championships in the past 5 years yet has bagged out the Lakers and Kobe since Lebron won his first championship, although he briefly became a Lakers fan again after the Howard trade but that fell apart quickly.

He has about as much credibility as a rotten foreskin.

[oarabbus]

Nothing's wrong with teaming up if you're running train on OP's mom :confusedshrug:

[Combat Wombat]

Nothing's wrong with teaming up if you're running train on OP's mom :confusedshrug:

PM me for invite.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Doesn't teaming up actually show how alpha people are? Willing to do anything to win.... even if it means humiliation and shaming from fans???

[JT123]

Nothing's wrong with teaming up if you're running train on OP's mom :confusedshrug:
That was pretty personal. I thought we were cool? :coleman:

[oarabbus]

That was pretty personal. I thought we were cool? :coleman:

Sorry man the title set it up too easy. I'm just fcuking around, we're cool :cheers:

[NumberSix]

Sorry man the title set it up too easy. I'm just fcuking around, we're cool :cheers:
So is your sister. We were just fcuking around doe.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Doesn't teaming up actually show how alpha people are? Willing to do anything to win.... even if it means humiliation and shaming from fans???

Strength in numbers = beta
Strength from within = alpha

[Eye Test]

Strength in numbers = beta
Strength from within = alpha

:applause: :applause:

2 in row with gasol as 2nd option = alpha among alphas :bowdown:

[oarabbus]

So is your sister. We were just fcuking around doe.


:no: You're thinking of Jameer.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Strength in numbers = beta
Strength from within = alpha

That is the perceived notion. Is it not alpha to go AGAINST the perceived notion? Their not afraid to break traditional senses on whats alpha and whats beta, only solidifying the fact that their actually alpha. Teaming up really shows their killer instinct, I mean, their literally willing to do anything to win

[oarabbus]

That is the perceived notion. Is it not alpha to go AGAINST the perceived notion? Their not afraid to break traditional senses on whats alpha and whats beta, only solidifying the fact that their actually alpha. Teaming up really shows their killer instinct, I mean, their literally willing to do anything to win


The real question is would you rather win a championship as a beta or lose a championship as an alpha?

[SamuraiSWISH]

yeah but the correct metaphor would be if Superman teamed up with his enemies and ruled metropolis which would be....bad
Exactly.

Do the two best players join up in pick up games? No. It's a totaly lack of heart, character, and competitive spirit.

You want to beat your contemporaries.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Exactly.

Do the two best players join up in pick up games? No. It's a totaly lack of heart, character, and competitive spirit.

You want to beat your contemporaries.

No that is totally different. In the NBA its measured by how many championships you win, anyone with killer instinct would be doing anything to win, including flopping and teaming up, as why wouldn't you- it only shows how competitive you are by doing anything including those degrading things to win.

On the other hand, in pickup basketball, your playing for the actual competitiveness, not actually winning. This is because a onesided game is not fun

The NBA is not about fun, it is about winning

Winning pickup games =/= winning championships

[knicksman]

That is the perceived notion. Is it not alpha to go AGAINST the perceived notion? Their not afraid to break traditional senses on whats alpha and whats beta, only solidifying the fact that their actually alpha. Teaming up really shows their killer instinct, I mean, their literally willing to do anything to win

winning with the least amount of help is what alpha means

[AcquiringSteak]

http://www.saferstates.com/images/Cooperation570b.jpg


this ************** was used in my english exam, damn bring out bad memories

[davehos]

because the only reason these superstars are taking less money during their primes is because of their endorsements. it's not fair to other players who only source of income is their contract.

This.

For polarity, so the Timberwolves may actually have a f'in chance to compete (no offense to Millbuck), the NBA needs to get rid of the individual salary cap and let the clubs go after these big names. These superstar players need to be going for max contracts. This "big 3" era needs to go. I'd rather see a more competitive landscape.

[Blue&Orange]

Yes because saving the world is the same as winning a basketball game.
Yes because fiction = reality