Did Michael Jordan "Make" Scottie Pippen?

[1987_Lakers]

According to Jordan stans he did.

[TheMan]

No he did not make Pippen. No serious MJ fan claims this, he did however help shape Pippen into the player he became, both physically and mentally. Pippen had the raw talent, but so do alot of basketball players. Just like a great coach can make a player reach his highest potential or a bad coach hinder a player's potential.

Pippen himself has said MJ helped him reach his potential. Jordan took him under his wing, Pippen and Mike would go one on one all the time, that Mike and Pippen were captains of their respective practice squads and they would go at it hard, etc.

MJ helped shape Pip into what he became just like Dean Smith helped MJ to become the player he became.

[atljonesbro]

No, Michael doesn't really seem like the type of guy who would help anyone honestly. Scottie Pippen made Scottie Pippen. Jordan isn't some magical basketball wizard who can give talent to players with a snap of th finger like Jordan stans think he is.

[Soundwave]

He helped in the development of Pippen, no one said he "made" Pippen.

[TheMan]

No, Michael doesn't really seem like the type of guy who would help anyone honestly. Scottie Pippen made Scottie Pippen. Jordan isn't some magical basketball wizard who can give talent to players with a snap of th finger like Jordan stans think he is.
Pippen himself is quoted numerous times crediting MJ in reaching his potential...I exposed you as making shit up and you call MJ stans liars. You're the biggest liar here, and really insecure about MJ since you ride LeBran's dick hard.

GTFOH

[jstern]

I think Jordan definitely influenced his game. I think Scottie was the one who said that he nagged Jordan over and over to work with him. And some of his movements, footwork that are unique to Jordan and Jordan only Scottie has.

But it's all irrelevant. It's the same a kid being lucky enough to have an NBA player as a father, or getting to play for a all time great college coach. They still have to put that work in.

So it's not so much that Jordan made Scottie, but that Scottie took the advantage to develop his game to a higher level by working tremendously with someone who's more of an expert on playing the game than the average player.

[atljonesbro]

Pippen himself is quoted numerous times crediting MJ in reaching his potential...I exposed you as making shit up and you call MJ stans liars. You're the biggest liar here, and really insecure about MJ since you ride LeBran's dick hard.

GTFOH
Lol without Jordan, Pippen would still be the same talent. Jordan stans now think he's the GOAT at player development lmao.

[Dengness9]

No he did not make Pippen. No serious MJ fan claims this, he did however help shape Pippen into the player he became, both physically and mentally. Pippen had the raw talent, but so do alot of basketball players. Just like a great coach can make a player reach his highest potential or a bad coach hinder a player's potential.

Pippen himself has said MJ helped him reach his potential. Jordan took him under his wing, Pippen and Mike would go one on one all the time, that Mike and Pippen were captains of their respective practice squads and they would go at it hard, etc.

MJ helped shape Pip into what he became just like Dean Smith helped MJ to become the player he became.

Quoted for truth

[Dengness9]

Pippen himself is quoted numerous times crediting MJ in reaching his potential...I exposed you as making shit up and you call MJ stans liars. You're the biggest liar here, and really insecure about MJ since you ride LeBran's dick hard.

GTFOH

Quoted for truth

[jstern]

Lol without Jordan, Pippen would still be the same talent. Jordan stans now think he's the GOAT at player development lmao.

Forget about basketball, I just don't get people like you. I mean he's saying that Pippen himself has credited Jordan with helping him reach a higher potential, which would actually make sense due to how similar some of their unique style are, and the fact that they spent so many years together, but rather considering that in a logical kind of way as something that Pippen himself said, you get extremely emotional talking about, "Jordan's stans this, bla, bla, bla." As if anyoe is saying that he's the GOAT player developer. You're creating situations in your own head, that's a little delusional. If Jordan was the GOAT player developer then there would be more than one Scottie Pippen coming out of the Bulls.

[Dengness9]

By the end of 1988, Jordan was truly the greatest player a person could watch, especially on defense. In fact, Jordan was named Defensive Player of the Year in Pippen’s rookie year. Astonishingly Jordan also led the league in scoring. That has never been done before or again, that type of feat would be reserved for the greatest player to ever play the game. But let’s get real; a game comprised of five players at once is not designed to see five versus one man. Therefore it is impossible for a team without five adequate players to win, or in the Bulls case, at least two or three because Jordan was that good.

Jordan had been on a quest since his rookie year to find a player with the passion for winning that he had and there was none around, not on the Bulls at least, so he had to form one. Pippen seemed like the perfect player for Jordan to mold into a player that would serve Jordan and actually be able to play defense alongside him. He was from a small college, he was impressionable and he didn’t talk back much but just listened.

Jordan started working on Pippen as early as his late rookie year. In the offseason Jordan took him under his wing and thought, "If I can get this guy to do what I tell him to do and play how I tell him to play, I might finally have a support team to beat the team with the best five guys out there like maybe Parish, McHale, Bird, DJ and Ainge or Kareem, Green, Worthy, Scott and Johnson or Laimbeer, Mahorn, Rodman, Dumars and Thomas."

[Teanett]

Scottie Pippen made Derrick Rose.
i'm serious. i believe he's his dad.

[lakerspng]

No one makes another person, they can influence their development significantly. How can working with and going against Jordan for a decade in practice every single day NOT make him a better player and help him hone his skills? He may have developed close to being the player he became but I can see with relative ease, Jordan made him better than he would have been without him. He pushed him harder than anyone else would have as a teammate.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lol without Jordan, Pippen would still be the same talent. Jordan stans now think he's the GOAT at player development lmao.

Even though he has failed miserably in Washington and Charlotte. Why doesn't he "make" a HOF'er there?

MJ helped Pippen just like other players helped teammates or co-workers help co-workers, particularly younger ones. It was not revolutionary. Pippen and Phil Jackson taught MJ basketball is a team game, not a 1 on 5 game, and thereby allowed MJ to understand how to win.

Did Montana "make" Steve Young? Did Jerry Rice "make" T.O.?

Also note how MJ stans never credit coaches, even though Doug Collins played a huge role with Pippen, or other players like Dave Corzine.

[diamenz]

Lol without Jordan, Pippen would still be the same talent. Jordan stans now think he's the GOAT at player development lmao.

it's hard to take your posts seriously when you go out of your way to belittle jordan every other sentence.

[atljonesbro]

it's hard to take your posts seriously when you go out of your way to belittle jordan every other sentence.
I have Jordan ranks #1 all time. Just don't like his supporters and how they bend the truth about Jordan.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

its the other way around.
MJ just wasnt a good leader, not good in making his teammates better.
he needed PJax, the triangle and most importantly Pippen to finally succeed.
Pippen was the GOAT second option, a top 15 player of all time who could do every single thing on a basketball court

[sundizz]

Does anybody see any Scottie resemblance in Kawhi? They both seem to have extraordinary physical talents.

And yeah...it's ridiculous to say Jordan made Pippen. They together made an enduring long lasting legacy of greatness.

Even without Jordan, Pippen would of been one of the best players in the league at some point. He was more athletic than any other perimeter player, great court vision and game management skills, and an absolute defensive beast. Any team could of developed that into a great beta level superstar.

Pipp + Malone + the other Jazz would of given Stock + Jordan + Bulls nightmares.

[Leviathon1121]

Roundball's crusade against the non existent flood of Jordan stans and Pippen haters continues.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pipp + Malone + the other Jazz would of given Stock + Jordan + Bulls nightmares.

Imagine if Pippen was never traded by Seattle. You would have Pippen, Payton, Kemp on the same team...:bowdown:

[jstern]

Even though he has failed miserably in Washington and Charlotte. Why doesn't he "make" a HOF'er there?

MJ helped Pippen just like other players helped teammates or co-workers help co-workers, particularly younger ones. It was not revolutionary. Pippen and Phil Jackson taught MJ basketball is a team game, not a 1 on 5 game, and thereby allowed MJ to understand how to win.

Did Montana "make" Steve Young? Did Jerry Rice "make" T.O.?

Also note how MJ stans never credit coaches, even though Doug Collins played a huge role with Pippen, or other players like Dave Corzine.

This is the delusion that I talked about in my previous post, where you guys make things bigger in your head. You're taking what he said serious and getting outraged by just the idea he suggested of someone thinking that MJ is the GOAT player developer. And then you say, "Also note how MJ stans never credit coaches," mean while a couple of post before yours you have a "Jordan stan" crediting Dean Smith.

The living in la la land is funny. The paranoia and creating situations in your heads. It's funny.

[Solefade]

why can't jordan "make" any players on the bobcats?

[Dengness9]

why can't jordan "make" any players on the bobcats?

Ummmm because he is 50+ years old and doesn't play professional basketball anymore.

There's a difference between getting better practicing against the greatest player in the world as oppose to the GOAT verbally giving off knowledge.

Stupid ****ing question

[diamenz]

I have Jordan ranks #1 all time. Just don't like his supporters and how they bend the truth about Jordan.

doesn't it work that way with any fanbase?

[riseagainst]

its the other way around.
MJ just wasnt a good leader, not good in making his teammates better.
he needed PJax, the triangle and most importantly Pippen to finally succeed.
Pippen was the GOAT second option, a top 15 player of all time who could do every single thing on a basketball court

:biggums: :biggums:


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Xiao Yao You]

yes

[Sarcastic]

Yes. He sacrificed his stats to let Pippen score more, and get some assists. Had he wanted, Jordan could have relegated Pippen to nothing more than a Bruce Bowen type of player, that only played defense.

[jongib369]

Scottie was going to be a damn good player no matter what but with Jordan he reached his full potential....Especially on defense.....Imagine being a rookie having to guard MJ one on one every god damn day.....

[atljonesbro]

doesn't it work that way with any fanbase?
Jordan stans lie the most by far. Also hate the arrogant attitude they carry around.

[97 bulls]

Scottie was going to be a damn good player no matter what but with Jordan he reached his full potential....Especially on defense.....Imagine being a rookie having to guard MJ one on one every god damn day.....
Funny thing is. Jordan fans credit Jordan for Pippens defensive ability. If that's true, the only thing Jordan couldve "gave" Pippen is the ability to play man defense. But in other threads, I constantly read Jordan fans say that Pippen wasnt much of a man defender. That he was only great at help defense. A facet that manning up Jordan everyday in practice would not help.

Which is it?

[97 bulls]

Jordan did not make Pippen. I do feel he did help Pippen in certain aspects. Just like Pippen and Jackson helped Jordan improve certain facets of his game.


What I really disagree with is the assumption that only Jordan couldve made Pippen the player he became. That's ridiculous.

[Replay32]

No he didn't "make" Pippen. They pushed each other by going against each other in practice. Jordan is quoted basically saying they needed each other.

[AlphaWolf24]

Yes...MJ played hard in practice and yelled at him.

because once you make the NBA you need someone to play hard against and yell at you in order to become Great. Physical talent and mental toughness are overrated....we need more people playing practice hard and yelling.

Pippen would have been a HS coach in Alabama if not for people yelling at him all the time.....


( in 94' MJ wasn't around to yell and practice hard, so Pete Myers who was louder then MJ , yelled at Pippen in practice.......Pippen had his best season!)

( when Pippen was drafted in the NBA lottery after a great College season....His coach was yelling at him)

[Lakers Legend#32]

What did Pippen do those two years Jordan was playing baseball?
Nothing.
Oh yeah, he took himself out of a playoff game.
Jordan made Pippen.

[Roundball_Rock]

What did Pippen do those two years Jordan was playing baseball?
Nothing.

#1 in all-NBA voting in 94', #3 in 95' and #1 in all-defensive voting both years. In 94' he was 3rd in MVP voting, despite missing ten games, and was the East's top MVP candidate and the East's best player. That is "nothing"?

[SamuraiSWISH]

MJ definitely molded him. Pippen himself has said this, that's why he had MJ introduce him at the HOF. The Bulls coaching staff have confirmed this, Horace Grant, Paxson, etc. He kicked the shit out of Pippen's mentally weak ass in practice everyday, and translated his game onto Pippens.

[Dragonyeuw]

Can we just say they helped each other at the end, and call it even? For fcuk sakes....:facepalm

Pippen had the raw tools and talent, it was harnessed being matched up against MJ in practice. That's a pretty damn good way to become a great defender playing against MJ every day BUT....the tools, the drive, the instincts have to be there. Scottie had them. And, once Scottie reached that level defensively, Jordan benefitted from it too. Because the guy who could defend him the best in the entire league was on his own team, opposing him in practice. Best all-around perimeter duo ever as a result. Can we put this tired argument to rest now?!

[knicksman]

if pippen played with lebron, do you think he will be the pippen that played with jordan? I dont think so. Or if jordan continued his 32 8 8, do you think pippen would be the pippen we all knew? Jordan adjusted his game to accomodate Pippen while lebron wouldnt coz all he cares is his stats.

[jstern]

Funny thing is. Jordan fans credit Jordan for Pippens defensive ability. If that's true, the only thing Jordan couldve "gave" Pippen is the ability to play man defense. But in other threads, I constantly read Jordan fans say that Pippen wasnt much of a man defender. That he was only great at help defense. A facet that manning up Jordan everyday in practice would not help.

Which is it?

What I read people saying is that Jordan was the better man defender and that Pippen was the better help defender. How does that translate to Pippen not being a good man defender. I mean seriously, Pippen is so well know for his defense and you're saying that Jordan fans are saying that he wasn't a good man defender?

[97 bulls]

What I read people saying is that Jordan was the better man defender and that Pippen was the better help defender. How does that translate to Pippen not being a good man defender. I mean seriously, Pippen is so well know for his defense and you're saying that Jordan fans are saying that he wasn't a good man defender?
I've read posts in which Jordan fans say that Pippen was overrated as a man defender. And listing his matchups vs Penny Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, and Dominique Wilkins as their argument.

[andgar923]

Hell yeah he MADE him... yeah I said it!

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ definitely molded him. Pippen himself has said this, that's why he had MJ introduce him at the HOF. The Bulls coaching staff have confirmed this, Horace Grant, Paxson, etc. He kicked the shit out of Pippen's mentally weak ass in practice everyday, and translated his game onto Pippens.

As Tex Winter noted, MJ needed Pippen more than the other way around. Pippen on any other team becomes basically the same player he became, perhaps not the same all-time due to less rings, but he would become an elite player nonetheless (i.e. Clyde Drexler). Without Pippen, though, MJ would not be the consensus GOAT. MJ would have 2-3 rings and less MVP's, due to weaker records, and would be perceived as, say, Larry Bird is today. Without Pippen, who would be the leader of the team like he was? This isn't just about stats. Pippen had a leadership ability that, like any great leader, pulled people together to achieve common goals. He wasn't scolding or diminishing his co-workers.

:lol at mentally weak. Karl Malone was amazed by the mental focus and determination of Pippen, MJ while playing with them on the Dream Team.


Yes...MJ played hard in practice and yelled at him.

because once you make the NBA you need someone to play hard against and yell at you in order to become Great. Physical talent and mental toughness are overrated....we need more people playing practice hard and yelling.

Pippen would have been a HS coach in Alabama if not for people yelling at him all the time.....


( in 94' MJ wasn't around to yell and practice hard, so Pete Myers who was louder then MJ , yelled at Pippen in practice.......Pippen had his best season!)

( when Pippen was drafted in the NBA lottery after a great College season....His coach was yelling at him)

GOAT leader. :bowdown:

[knicksman]

yet kareem didnt have just a pippen(worthy) but also have GOAT(Magic) yet hes the GOAT according to RR. LOL how stupid is that.

[PizzamanIRL]

I'm pretty sure his mother and father made him.

[Calabis]

Pippen himself is quoted numerous times crediting MJ in reaching his potential...I exposed you as making shit up and you call MJ stans liars. You're the biggest liar here, and really insecure about MJ since you ride LeBran's dick hard.

GTFOH

I hate these ****ing threads....Pippen always had talent, its no secret that Jordan saw it and started playing with Scottie one on one after practice. Its no secret u can see Pippen doing some similar moves to Jordan's during his younger years. Its also no secret that Pippen himself credited his defense to that of guarding the worlds best player everyday in practice. Did Jordan make Pippen...hell no...did he influence him...hell yes.

[97 bulls]

I hate these ****ing threads....Pippen always had talent, its no secret that Jordan saw it and started playing with Scottie one on one after practice. Its no secret u can see Pippen doing some similar moves to Jordan's during his younger years. Its also no secret that Pippen himself credited his defense to that of guarding the worlds best player everyday in practice. Did Jordan make Pippen...hell no...did he influence him...hell yes.
Great post Cali.

[ILLsmak]

No he did not make Pippen. No serious MJ fan claims this, he did however help shape Pippen into the player he became, both physically and mentally. Pippen had the raw talent, but so do alot of basketball players. Just like a great coach can make a player reach his highest potential or a bad coach hinder a player's potential.

Pippen himself has said MJ helped him reach his potential. Jordan took him under his wing, Pippen and Mike would go one on one all the time, that Mike and Pippen were captains of their respective practice squads and they would go at it hard, etc.

MJ helped shape Pip into what he became just like Dean Smith helped MJ to become the player he became.

I dunno... I think the existence of MJ made him into Pippen. I think they probably did compete... and that's what made Pippen what he was. I don't think that Pippen was mentored by MJ at all. Not in the way you guys are acting like it. MJ is a tough love bust your ass and hope you learn from it type.

-Smak

[Calabis]

Great post Cali.

Just tired of this Pippen vs Jordan shit.....Dudes became a great tandem together, something we may never see with todays guys trying to find the easist route to a ring nowadays..these Lebron stans acting like Pip was dropping 21/7/7 right when he came into the league. Just like Jordan finally getting a player he trusted and he himself becoming more of a team player because of it. These two were perfect for each other........Mike could actually sit out during certain points of the game and have a guy capable of running the team and keeping the team stable.

[97 bulls]

Just tired of this Pippen vs Jordan shit.....Dudes became a great tandem together, soing we may never see with todays guys trying to find the easist route to a ring nowadays..these Lebron stans acting like Pip was dropping 21/7/7 right when he came into the league. Just like Jordan finally getting a player he trusted and he himself becoming more of a team player because of it. These two were perfect for each other........Mike could actually sit out during certain points of the game and have a guy capable of running the team and keeping the team stable.
You and me both brother. Pippen did not hit the ground running. But his talent combined with Jordans tutelage is what made Pippen the player he bacame. As well as the coaches.

[Round Mound]

[B] PIPPEN without MJ 1993-94:

- Bulls Win 55 Games (2 Wins Less Than 92-93 and a Bogous Call Away From ECF)
- Pippen: Top 4 In PER That Season
- Pippen: Highest DRT for a Perimeter Player That Season 7Th (The Rest All Big Men)
- Pippen: 22-9-6-3-0.8 at 49% FG: : Raw Stats
- P

[jstern]

I've read posts in which Jordan fans say that Pippen was overrated as a man defender. And listing his matchups vs Penny Hardaway, Jamal Mashburn, and Dominique Wilkins as their argument.

I've never read those. And that's been my point this whole thread, that just because one or two fan of player says something, it doesn't mean that the other fans are saying the same thing. Especially about Pippen and anything related to defense where his reputation is already established and you're not going to find too many people agreeing with that.

But the real problem is the OP and people falling for this bate.

"Did Michael Jordan make Scottie Pippen? According to Jordan stans he did."

He's the real person twisting things.

[bizil]

Steel sharpens steel! And that was the case with Jordan and Pippen. They both helped make each other better. Plus Pippen TOTALLY REVOLUTIONIZED the SF position! The only thing stopping Scottie from being maybe the GOAT SF was the alpha dog scoring gene. But even at that, he was still a very good scorer and flat out a great player.

[PsychoBe]

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B] PIPPEN without MJ 1993-94:

- Bulls Win 55 Games (2 Wins Less Than 92-93 and a Bogous Call Away From ECF)
- Pippen: Top 4 In PER That Season
- Pippen: Highest DRT for a Perimeter Player That Season 7Th (The Rest All Big Men)
- Pippen: 22-9-6-3-0.8 at 49% FG: : Raw Stats
- P

[Roundball_Rock]

these Lebron stans acting like Pip was dropping 21/7/7 right when he came into the league. Just like Jordan finally getting a player he trusted and he himself becoming more of a team player because of it. These two were perfect for each other........Mike could actually sit out during certain points of the game and have a guy capable of running the team and keeping the team stable.


No, but Pippen averaged 17/7/5 in his third season, in which he became an all-star. Even in his second season, when he became a starter (he started 77% of his games) as a starter he averaged 16/7/4 in 36 mpg so MJ stans exaggerate when they make it seem as if Pippen was not a key contributor until many moons later. Pippen was the team's second best player by his second year. Even regarding the 89' playoffs MJ fans are misleading when they quote his playoff statistics because they conveniently ignore that his numbers were dragged down by playing only 1 minute in one game.

MJ stans act as if MJ himself is why the Bulls made the ECF for the first time in 1989. The big difference between the 89' Bulls and 88' Bulls (who lost in the second round and were only a 47 win team) is Pippen and Grant became legitimate contributors. Were they great players at that point? No, but the improvement in Chicago's results can be directly tired to the improvement of Pippen and Grant as they gained experience. Now, does this mean they were the primary reason the Bulls won? Of course not. MJ was. MJ was MJ, though, whether the Bulls were losing in the first round. MJ was the league MVP in 88' when his team won 47 games and lost in the second round. In 1987 when the Bulls went 40-42 and got swept in the first round MJ was #2 in MVP voting. So MJ did not dramatically improve, it was the arrival of Pippen and Grant and their subsequent improvement that moved the needle. When Pippen became an elite player that spelled the beggining of the Bulls dominance, as Chuck Daly recognized when he saw a young Pippen and realized the Pistons days were numbered since when Pip became an elite player he plus MJ would own the league.

You made a great point about Pippen spelling MJ when MJ was out. Jackson would always keep at least one of Pippen or Jordan on the floor with the bench unit--a huge luxury to have a superstar out there with the bench.


that was pippen's best season by far, everyone knows this. that was when he became the player that other teams started recognizing as well, but as others said, he didn't hit the ground running.

:lol at this. Pippen's best season probably was 96' and he was better in 95' than he was in 94'. Pippen's prime was from 1991-1998 and his peak was from 1994-1996, although 97' Pippen was only a notch worse. People underrate his 96' season because his numbers slipped because he had health issues late in the year but even MJ was calling him the MVP before that and Bob Ryan called him the second best player in the league.

Yeah, Pippen was the third player picked on the Dream Team (in 1991) but no teams did recognized him as an elite player until 1994. :roll: Chuck Daly feared Pippen when Pippen was a noob because he knew what Pippen would be able to do once he gained experience--and what that meant for CHI vis-a-vis DET.

Another trick MJ fans use is to focus only on the Detroit series but ignore the other series, as if MJ going to the ECF was a routine occurrence before Pippen and Grant. :lol For example, in the first round in 90' Pippen posted 23/9/8/3/2 and Grant 15/10 but their roles in helping the Bulls get out the first round, something the Bulls were not accustomed to back then, is erased from history to serve the "it was all MJ" agenda.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol without Jordan, Pippen would still be the same talent. Jordan stans now think he's the GOAT at player development lmao.

You have no sources to support your argument. Everyone knows Jordan made Pippen. Don't be insecure because Bron was too inferior of a mentor to make anyone an improved player. Does Bron invite players to practice at his house everyday at 6am like Jordan did?