Replace Lebron with Prime Jordan and the Heat would still lose

[Derivative]

Even if you replace Lebron with a prime Jordan averaging 35/5/5, the Heat would still lose because rest of the players are playing like stinking balls. The Heats can't defend the Spurs and no one else can consistently score.

[knicksman]

how does it feel to be 1 of the lowest IQ on this board OP?? kobe>>>bran

[Im Still Ballin]

This is true. Lebrons not even playing bad...

[uber]

Poor bron, needs more help!

[EricGordon23]

This is true. Lebrons not even playing bad...

This guy gets it.

People are so fixated on lebron losing its hilarious how one man has got them so frazzled.

Agreed Jordan couldn't win either against these spurs

[Teanett]

Poor bron, needs more help!
:D

[Take Your Lumps]

Jordan would physically assault his teammates if they ever played games like these two. Somebody would go to the hospital.

And I think they would win because they would all fear for their lives.

[Warfan]

Maybe. Jordan would be more aggressive scoring wise in stretches were LeBron hasn't been (2nd half last game, and the 1st half this game). Doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna hit those shots though...The bigger issue for the heat is defense, even when bron went on those scoring spurts the Spurs still outscored Miami fairly comfortably. You cant go down by 20 before halftime and expect to win games and the series...

[step_back]

Wade and Bosh are both playing like bums, it's never a good sign for the Heat when one of their players shows up to play. They have gotten lazy playing with LeBron. I'm not a huge fan of his but I feel for the guy. Must be frustrating to have to carry two All-stars.

[plowking]

Maybe. Jordan would be more aggressive scoring wise in stretches were LeBron hasn't been (2nd half last game, and the 1st half this game). Doesn't necessarily mean he's gonna hit those shots though...The bigger issue for the heat is defense, even when bron went on those scoring spurts the Spurs still outscored Miami fairly comfortably. You cant go down by 20 before halftime and expect to win games and the series...

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.

[nathanjizzle]

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.

Some people just dont understand that basketball is more than fieldgoals.

[JT123]

Wade and Bosh are both playing like bums, it's never a good sign for the Heat when one of their players shows up to play. They have gotten lazy playing with LeBron. I'm not a huge fan of his but I feel for the guy. Must be frustrating to have to carry two All-stars.
This guy gets it. :cheers: Heat spent all season resting Wade every time he so much as got a splinter, thinking that he would be elite come playoff time. That strategy doesn't appear to be paying off. Last year Wade was "injured" and still had a better Finals than he is having this year. The Heat will need to make major changes to the roster to keep Lebron around, and the only way to do that is by getting rid of Bosh, even if Wade is the one who should go.

[plowking]

Some people just dont understand that basketball is more than fieldgoals.

Tell me, what is Lebron going to do as an individual to stop a team attack? What is any player going to do, better, as a whole than what Lebron did in that 3rd quarter?

Put any star in history in that situation. Okay, they probably don't go 7-7, but they might play slightly better D. Same time they lose out on a few missed shots, but stop some. At the end of the day, Spurs still build on the lead.

So again, what would any star in NBA history do differently there? Explain it to me, since you know better according to you.

[Warfan]

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.

I meant 2nd half of game 3 when he only scored 6 points and had 5 TO's, and the 1st half of tonights game where the team was down 20 and he hadn't even cracked double digits yet. I even said defense was more of an issue.


The bigger issue for the heat is defense, even when bron went on those scoring spurts the Spurs still outscored Miami fairly comfortably
....

[Eye Test]

http://en.bloggif.com/output/f/e/fe86d5cefef865addf1abb82316248df.gif

[plowking]

I meant 2nd half of game 3 when he only scored 6 points and had 5 TO's, and the 1st half of tonights game where the team was down 20 and he hadn't even cracked double digits yet. I even said defense was more of an issue.


....

It was more aimed towards your "maybe" part. The answer is almost, "most definitely" if anything.

[jstern]

It's all about adjustments, and finding the right pieces to go up against the Spurs. The way the Spurs were running their offense, replacing one player for another would not help them.

The only time where replacing Lebron with Jordan would have helped is if the games were close, because Lebron is more of making the right play, flow of the game type of player (and if his teammates are not performing...), while Jordan can creates shots at will. Other than that, Jordan would not had help them last night.

[Harison]

Jordan could win against Spurs, not just because he would do his 110% best to tear them apart offensively (unlike Lebron, who disappears in stretches), but also MJ would play on DPOY level defensively. Thats what OP doesnt understand.

There is no way in hell Spurs are shooting near 100% against Jordan like they did in GM3. Example, just two years back against old KG Heat were shooting overall crappy 38%, and scorching 85% when he was on the bench. MJ would similarly try to relentlessly disrupt Spurs offense and make them work for every shot.

[Harison]

From another thread, Lebrons stats in 4Q - 3.5 ppg, 38.4 fg%, 25.0 3pt%. Does anyone think Jordan's would look like this? Even in Spurs record breaking game Heat were back to 7 points in the end, its just few possessions for MJ to take over.

[knicksman]

replace bran with jordan and wade performs like hes pippen at least. Whereas wade is a complete role player on this team coz lebron wont give up playmaking duties due to statpadding. Yet these dumbass lebron fans still dont get it.

[ballin33]

Of course Jordan wouldn't win, basketball is a team sport and you can't win 1 vs 5. The Spurs have a significant talent advantage and a significant coaching advantage, thats way too much for a player of LeBron's or even Jordan's caliber to overcome.

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

Would Durant on this Heat team beat the spurs instead of having lebron?

[sekachu]

Even if you replace Lebron with a prime Jordan averaging 35/5/5, the Heat would still lose because rest of the players are playing like stinking balls. The Heats can't defend the Spurs and no one else can consistently score.



Maybe you are right about Game 4. Would MJ allow this heat team down 1-3? Absolutely No. This is all about leadership. Lebron failed to will his team as a leader but I would blame his coach more.

[plowking]

Jordan could win against Spurs, not just because he would do his 110% best to tear them apart offensively (unlike Lebron, who disappears in stretches), but also MJ would play on DPOY level defensively. Thats what OP doesnt understand.

There is no way in hell Spurs are shooting near 100% against Jordan like they did in GM3. Example, just two years back against old KG Heat were shooting overall crappy 38%, and scorching 85% when he was on the bench. MJ would similarly try to relentlessly disrupt Spurs offense and make them work for every shot.

It's the same Jordan jockers posting the same shit. This dude only comes out to bash Bron and praise Jordan. Viola, a perfect thread for him appeared.

Have you been watching the games? Bron scored 15 points in the first quarter of game 3. If that isn't going on a tear offensively, then what is? Yet once again, I will state, during that stretch, they built the damn lead.

Jordan isn't doing anything to stop this offense by himself, just like Bron isn't. He isn't going to rally the troops any better than Lebron or any other non related basketball bullshit. At the end of the day, the Spurs are moving the ball, taking advantage of mismatches, and hitting some ridiculous shots.

Jordan wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it, and neither would any other superstar. How often have you seen a player dominate a quarter without missing a shot, score 20 points on their own, and their team go further into deficit?

Come on people, get a grip. The Jordan jocking on here is insane. You'd think he was the best 3 point shooter ever, and the strongest guy in the league with the amount of mythology people on here write about him.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Replace LeBron with Jordan or Bird (speaking of perimeter players) and the Heat would've had better chances at winning this series, ijs. Oh and they most likely win in 2011 also.

[NZStreetBaller]

Jordan three preated twice bran cant even get one lmao

[plowking]

Replace LeBron with Jordan or Bird (speaking of perimeter players) and the Heat would've had better chances at winning this series, ijs. Oh and they most likely win in 2011 also.

People keep posting this, yet no explanation. 2011, sure, no one is arguing with you.

What does Jordan or Bird do better in the first quarter where Spurs go 41-25 in game 1? Bron knocked down 15 points. Does Jordan or Bird score 30 to keep their team in it? Do they somehow magically make the role players hit shots?

[deja vu]

Jordan would have showed better defense than LeBron though. Kawhi is lighting him up.

[andgar923]

MJ treated every practice like it was game 7 of the finals.

The Bulls would've been ready.

It's been said many times that the Bulls didn't fear Phil, they feared MJ.

The Heat simply don't have the intensity or effort (haven't).

[HomieWeMajor]

If you replace Lebron with MJ then all that changes is that his father gets murdered by Colombians instead of Italians.

[SHAQisGOAT]

People keep posting this, yet no explanation. 2011, sure, no one is arguing with you.

What does Jordan or Bird do better in the first quarter where Spurs go 41-25 in game 1? Bron knocked down 15 points. Does Jordan or Bird score 30 to keep their team in it? Do they somehow magically make the role players hit shots?

Yea there's no argument for that one.

1st of all, I can't see Jordan or Bird("heat game" a great exemple) cramping up in that game1 and staying on the bench at the end, game was still very close and they most likely take over at the end to win that, changes the momentum of the series also.
Not saying it's LeBron's fault or something, fact that there's some people who said he went out because he was shook and whatnot :facepalm But still, with Jordan or Bird, Heat most likely take that game.

Jordan would take over games with his scoring better than Bron ever could, he would be clutch as hell, agressive too... Always major, especially in series like these. He was also an all-around beast who stepped up in big moments. Most likely he'd start to kill them and demand double-teams, which opens up the offense and MJ could also pass.
Larry brings that major clutchness too and he was able to do damage on offense in more ways, no way to really play a guy like him, also LeBron has to be really ball-dominant to make the most impact and Bird was either way. Heat have also been really struggling in the playmaking/passing department (same TO's as assists), Larry brings elite passing without having to overhandle the ball and would get that offense flowing and moving the ball, I can see him do better than Bron as far as passing/playmaking, because he had a higher IQ, was a better pure passer and didn't need much to make it happen, better off-ball too, better at setting up/starting (team) plays, oh and he didn't need for teammates to change their game (for the worse) so he can do his thing. Also, Bird brings that physicality and toughness, and with him the Heat would've most likely been outrebounding SA in the series, which is always a big plus. You can say he was great at taking what they gave him and he was great at knowing what was necessary for the win, having all the tools to do what was needed, in many situations.

Let's not forget, Bird's teammates were really underperforming in the 1984 Finals and he "carried them" while beating a team with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis, Wilkes.. a team that was stacked like crazy and played great basketball, better on paper too and expected to win. Obviously not saying he didn't have any help (Lakers choked a bit too) but you can definitely say that Bron's teammates have been playing better offensively.

LeBron's stans love to look at stats and whatnot, and I can also say that Wade has been putting up 16 ppg on .527 TS%, Bosh with 14.3 on .693 TS%, Allen and Lewis also over 10 ppg on great efficiency.

Bron's defense hasn't been on point also, either on his man or team D (MJ brings both and Bird brings really good team defense even from a big standpoint, which is major).

Larry or Michael would also most likely bring out more from their teammates, mentally speaking. Still remember when the Celtics were playing like shit on both ends and Bird called them out and led by exemple, they came back stronger and they've won. And you know that Jordan would be all over them, talking shit and whatnot, major intensity.

[bigwebb5000]

Jordan would draw double teams and cause the Spurs to change their defensive scheme. Bron is only getting singled covered by Leonard and Diaw. Can you imagine Diaw trying to guard Jordan? It would be a joke. You Bron fanboys need to check some YouTube videos of the GOAT when you get a chance.

Hell Kobe would routinely beat the Spurs in their prime and ppl have the nerve to say Bron is in the top 10 :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Blue&Orange]

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.
Yes it was a great statpadding display with the game already over... i think it was the only bright spot for Lebron in this finals, he might have found his future role on the NBA... spot up 3 point shooter.

Oh and he obviously disappear and stop trying after missing a couple shots, #protectfg% ... just like in game 2, thank god Bosh made that corner 3 and spurs missed ft because LEbron was nowhere to be found and we be talking sweep.

3 points scored in the final 5 minutes in 4 games :bowdown:



Seriously are people still comparing Lebron to Jordan? How delusional can you be?

[andgar923]

Jordan would draw double teams and cause the Spurs to change their defensive scheme. Bron is only getting singled covered by Leonard and Diaw. Can you imagine Diaw trying to guard Jordan? It would be a joke. You Bron fanboys need to check some YouTube videos of the GOAT when you get a chance.


This

[Blue&Orange]

Larry or Michael would also most likely bring out more from their teammates, mentally speaking. Still remember when the Celtics were playing like shit on both ends and Bird called them out and led by exemple, they came back stronger and they've won. And you know that Jordan would be all over them, talking shit and whatnot, major intensity.
[/B]
Lebron just said it's not on his shoulders winning the next 3 games. :applause:

I doubt a team looked so defeated in the first half of a game 4 in the NBA finals like the head did, dat Lebron leadership.

[knicksman]

these dumb bran stans really has lot of excuses. They were close to 7 in game 3 but were was lebron?

[StephHamann]

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/11111/111119363/3767577-7949006870-micha.gif

[coin24]

Yes it was a great statpadding display with the game already over... i think it was the only bright spot for Lebron in this finals, he might have found his future role on the NBA... spot up 3 point shooter.

Oh and he obviously disappear and stop trying after missing a couple shots, #protectfg% ... just like in game 2, thank god Bosh made that corner 3 and spurs missed ft because LEbron was nowhere to be found and we be talking sweep.

3 points scored in the final 5 minutes in 4 games :bowdown:



Seriously are people still comparing Lebron to Jordan? How delusional can you be?


This:applause: :applause:

As usual bran stans just trying to shift the blame. His team let him down, needs more help etc..

You think Jordan would be single covered in the finals and only score what, 5 points in the whole first half??:roll: :roll:

[Jlamb47]

Prime Jordan would do alot better job then what Lebron doing
Lebron went 7-7 in the 3rd
he took "7" shots to try to take over
Kobe and Jordan taking atleast 12 shots to come back they attack aggressivley
Lebron gets too passive i watched the whole game
yal making too many damn excused

[veilside23]

try to have some respect for MJ he didn't lose in the finals...

I guess that's what separates kobe from LeBron . kobe would have died shooting to get them back in the game and not just worry about his stats.

People bash kevin love for having empty stats yet for LeBron people claim the heat is garbage without LeBron .. its amazing that the heat only lost by 3 points to the pacers when LeBron was in foul trouble ... :rolleyes:

[TheMan]

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.
I thought Bran made teammates better :confusedshrug:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Bron went 7-7 in the 3rd quarter... and they built on the lead.

What exactly could any superstar do in that particular instance? There is no player, who could have played better in that stretch, and yet they built on the lead.

Anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.

The point is to not let them get a huge lead to begin with. The entire Heat team, including Lebron, came out incredibly flat in the first quarter (aside from Bosh). The game was still close after the first quarter, but in the first half as a whole, the Heat allowed the Spurs to get into a crazy rhythm, and they gained a ton of confidence. Lebron should have shown that energy and effort in the first quarter/half, not the third Q when they're already down 20. It starts with the leader.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Theyd win in 6 and since MJ is a better athlete than Bran he wouldnt cramp up under the pressure of no AC

[GODbe]

Agreed. They need more and more hall of famers every year to win their *'s.

[HurricaneKid]

With Prime MJ this series is already OVER. Mia won G2 by 2 points and Bron was AMAZING.

[OldSchoolBBall]

With Prime MJ this series is already OVER. Mia won G2 by 2 points and Bron was AMAZING.

Lebron in game 2 was basically an AVERAGE Jordan playoff game. Stay trolling, son. :roll:

[guy]

MJ treated every practice like it was game 7 of the finals.

The Bulls would've been ready.

It's been said many times that the Bulls didn't fear Phil, they feared MJ.

The Heat simply don't have the intensity or effort (haven't).



The point is to not let them get a huge lead to begin with. The entire Heat team, including Lebron, came out incredibly flat in the first quarter (aside from Bosh). The game was still close after the first quarter, but in the first half as a whole, the Heat allowed the Spurs to get into a crazy rhythm, and they gained a ton of confidence. Lebron should have shown that energy and effort in the first quarter/half, not the third Q when they're already down 20. It starts with the leader.

This and this. This isn't about what Jordan would've done differently as in a certain aspect of the game he would've changed i.e. scoring, defense, etc. Its about more of the mental aspects.

Do people think this seemingly lack of intensity/urgency/effort from the Heat is a surprise? Its a bad habit this team has had the whole time they've been together. They've been rightfully characterized as a team that likes to "turn it off then turn it on when they need to". Well, that's a bad habit, and bad habits usually catch up to a team at some point when they go up against someone that is just too good to let their opponent get away with that. (And maybe the Spurs aren't that good and the Heat will come back on them, but so far it doesn't look like it.) Sorry, but part of that falls on leadership, and Lebron is their leader and best player. And if we're comparing him to Jordan, it should be noted that this type of lackadaisical attitude was never something that you can characterize the 90s Bulls with and its been cited from most people that were around those teams that Jordan was the main reason for that because of how intense he was and how he used to get on his teammates. Call it the typical Jordan mythologist clich