Rumor: Embiids physical w/ Cavs did not go well. Team potentially passing on him?

[Dr Seuss]

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/13/report-joel-embiids-physical-with-cavaliers-showed-enough-red-flags-that-they-wont-take-him-no-1-overall/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter



ESPN Cleveland ‏@ESPNCleveland

.@TheRealTRizzo: Sources tell me Joel Embiid's physical w/ the #Cavs did not go well. Enough red flags that they won't take him #1 overall.

dont know how reliable this source may or may not be. but this is extremely interesting, nonetheless.

[Milbuck]

****, that probably means we pass on him as well. He's definitely going to be evaluated by us, but if there was anything serious, it's almost assuredly gonna show up when we look at him.

He seriously might drop to Orlando. Philly would probably take Exum, assuming Wiggins/Jabari are split between Cle/Mil.

[Rubio2Gasol]

:oldlol:

If he drops to Boston :applause:

[NuggetsFan]

That could be huge. No reason for the Cavs to play mindtricks with the 1st overall pick.

I mean kind of a dick move, they could have just passed on him & not ruin his draft stock. If he didn't go 1st people would have already been like maybe his health is a bigger risk than we thought. If it was there camp that released that anyway. Is he doing medicals with the every team in the top 3? I thought he declined and agreed for Cleveland? Or am I off.

If true that's a game changer.

[Jameerthefear]

I'd like to hear more first. IDK about that source...

[AnaheimLakers24]

good. enough with picking tall duds just cause. knew this dude was shit when he ****ed up his back an didnt wana work out

[AnaheimLakers24]

future 2ppg 3rpg journey man. will be ijured for 85% of his career

[Levity]

Chris Sheridan with a contradicting report today

https://twitter.com/sheridanhoops/status/477529003117780992


Chris SheridanVerified account ‏@sheridanhoops

Joel Embiid's back checked out just fine when #Cavs looked closely. He is No. 1 in latest Mock Draft, just published: http://www.

however, im taking both reports with a grain of salt. this can drastically change the draft, though, which will drown us with even more wild mock drafts.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tony Rizzo is not a valid source for information. Everything else that has been reported contradicts this, including by people who are known to have sources within the franchise.

It has already been discussed at length in the other Cavs/Embiid thread.


That could be huge. No reason for the Cavs to play mindtricks with the 1st overall pick.

I mean kind of a dick move, they could have just passed on him & not ruin his draft stock. If he didn't go 1st people would have already been like maybe his health is a bigger risk than we thought. If it was there camp that released that anyway. Is he doing medicals with the every team in the top 3? I thought he declined and agreed for Cleveland? Or am I off.

If true that's a game changer.

It's not true.

[Jameerthefear]

Sam Amico and Chris Sheridan say other wise anyways:
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/477525160094752768

https://twitter.com/sheridanhoops/status/477529003117780992

sounds like bullshit to me.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sam Amico and Chris Sheridan say other wise anyways:
https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO/status/477525160094752768

https://twitter.com/sheridanhoops/status/477529003117780992

sounds like bullshit to me.
I don't know if Sheridan has solid sources, but Amico is now in the know.

Yes, it's bullsh!t. What you have here is a Cleveland radio guy trying to stir the pot. He's just a loudmouth idiot, tbh.

[NuggetsFan]

It's not true.

Guess the dude was just trying to grab some headlines. Stupid way to do it, shoulda known people were going to be quick to respond. Was there anybody else pushing this or just one guy?

[Rubio2Gasol]

Guess the dude was just trying to grab some headlines. Stupid way to do it, shoulda known people were going to be quick to respond. Was there anybody else pushing this or just one guy?

Message being perpetuated by Cleveland's Oligarchs.

Need a smokescreen so they can get the guy they want at number 1 :lol

[All Net]

Glad rumours are wrong.

[qrich]

Its because the Cavs will take Zach Bustvine and trade Kyrie for Love.

[noob cake]

I don't really care if his medical checks out. Perfectly good medical can still lead to ruined backs.

Stress fracture of the back while playing 20 something games a year? Plus history of back issues in high school. I don't expect his back to hold up against 82 game NBA season + practice + travel.

[RedBlackAttack]

Guess the dude was just trying to grab some headlines. Stupid way to do it, shoulda known people were going to be quick to respond. Was there anybody else pushing this or just one guy?
No one else is reporting anything close to that, and I sort of shutter to call this a "report." It's just an idiot spouting off.

Last year at this time, Jason Lloyd and Brian Windhorst were the guys to listen to when it came to "franchise sources." Word on the street is that those guys have now been virtually shut out by the Cavs.

Meanwhile...

Sam Amico
@SamAmicoFSO
Cavs put Joel Embiid through rigorous workout. His physical checked out fine, source says.
2:57 PM - 13 Jun 2014

^^^Take that with much more than just a grain of salt. He's now been tapped.

[RedBlackAttack]

Also, this is worth noting...

M.S. Boyer/J. Valade
@PDcavsinsider
Andrew Wiggins will work out for #Cavs next Wednesday and Jabari Parker next Friday, source tells The Plain Dealer.
2:29 PM - 13 Jun 2014

[NuggetsFan]

Also, this is worth noting...

M.S. Boyer/J. Valade
@PDcavsinsider
Andrew Wiggins will work out for #Cavs next Wednesday and Jabari Parker next Friday, source tells The Plain Dealer.
2:29 PM - 13 Jun 2014

Makes sense to look at everybody, even if Embiids there guy. Guess you never really know and can read into every little detail but if they do pass on him at #1 and had Wiggins/Parker come in right after his medical maybe his health is an issue.

Until than it does seem like everybody is saying it's fine and it was just that one idiot trying to stir the pot.

[BurningHammer]

If Cavs are confident with all those high picks they have, playing it safe and picking Wiggins or Parker maybe better for them.

[All Net]

If Cavs are confident with all those high picks they have, playing it safe and picking Wiggins or Parker maybe better for them.

Maybe but playing it safe won't take them to the next level.

Embiid I think will. I would trust the writers of Cleveland more than this one guy.

[RedBlackAttack]

If Cavs are confident with all those high picks they have, playing it safe and picking Wiggins or Parker maybe better for them.
I don't think those guys are any safer than Embiid and I'm not buying this Rizzo nonsense OP posted. All reports are that the medical went fine, and as long as he's healthy, Embiid's floor is a souped up, bigger Ibaka. I see that as his floor.

We have more to risk passing on Embiid than we do taking him and an injury happening. If you pass on this guy and he approaches his Olajuwon-esque ceiling, we'll never hear the end of it. Things are set up perfectly. All of these past drafts where we could have taken the franchise center and didn't -- Valanciunas, Drummond, Noel, Len -- has enabled the Cavs to be in the perfect position to take the best center prospect yet.

I just don't see any way you can justify passing on this guy.

[NattyPButter]

oh the sweet tears that will happen if they don't draft Embiid. Will be so funny too.

[RedBlackAttack]

oh the sweet tears that will happen if they don't draft Embiid. Will be so funny too.
?

Weird post.

[miggyme1]

him not having a good physical can mean anything from not in bball shape to a serious injury and i dont think its th elatter..dude hasnt play bball since what feb?...thats what 4 months of no running up and and down a bball court for 30 minutes to 40 minutes a night?

cavs better draft embiid if they know whats good for them cuz lebron aint walking through that door and wiggins will be the bust of this draft and parker..well how many touches will he get playing alongside a shoot first pg and a shoot first sg in waiters? i say no more than 8 shots a game...cant develop like that...take embiid

[RedBlackAttack]

Amico:


A few quick Cavaliers notes as we move closer to the June 26 NBA Draft, and perhaps a decision on the head coach:

-- Former Kansas center Joel Embiid was put through a rigorous individual workout during his visit earlier this week. Word is Embiid looked every bit as talented as expected and his physical checked out just fine. That means there were no major "red flags" about his troublesome back.

-- Yes, there have been conflicting reports about Embiid, and here's the bottom line: His back is a concern. Maybe not a major concern, and maybe not enough of a concern for the Cavs to pass on him with the No. 1 overall pick. But the stress fracture that caused Embiid to miss the postseason at Kansas is still on everyone's mind. You don't just wave a magic wand and make an injury like that go away forever. You need a little luck, and it needs to be monitored.

-- It doesn't seem like the Cavs have a frontrunner, and it's doubtful one will be determined until at least next week -- after ex-Kansas swingman Andrew Wiggins and ex-Duke forward Jabari Parker come in for their own individual workouts. The Cleveland Plain Dealer first reported both were coming to town and FOX Sports Ohio sources later confirmed: Wiggins will work out Wednesday, followed by Parker on Friday.

-- Parker is believed to have been first on the Cavs' draft board for most of the college basketball season, as well as immediately after the Cavs won the lottery. There's no evidence that has changed. But there's no evidence it hasn't. Welcome to the fun of the NBA Draft.

-- Two rumors floating around the Internet about Wiggins: He only wants to play for the Philadelphia 76ers; and the Sixers may be willing to trade their Nos. 3 and 10 picks to the Cavs for the first overall.

-- OK, now the truth: 1. Wiggins' camp has denied he only wants to play for Philly; 2. As of this moment, the Sixers have zero interest in trading the Nos. 3 and 10 picks for the first. Zero. Interest. It's unclear whether the Cavs would want to make that deal, either. They seem to enjoy the power that comes with No. 1.

-- The Bucks would be thrilled with Parker. So if the Cavs take Embiid, the Sixers will get their man in Wiggins (who they want badly). But the Sixers don't like Wiggins enough to give up two young talented draft prospects for him, a source said. Read: As of today, they're keeping the 10th pick.

-- Finally, it may not be far-fetched to think the Cavs' coaching search is now a three-man race between David Blatt, Alvin Gentry and Tyronn Lue. Talks between the Cavs and Blatt were said to be "heating up" Friday, with Blatt due in next week for a face-to-face interview. But it appears the Cavs are equally enthralled with Gentry and Lue, both Clippers assistants. This picture should be considerably clearer by the middle of next week.

http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/nba-report-embiid-checked-out-but-who-s-no-1-061314

While I've said Amico's information is, for the first time, coming from the Cavs, he's still the same old Amico in a lot of ways. The idea that he doesn't believe the Cavs "have a frontrunner" at this point is comical. That's what they're feeding him... same thing with the Parker stuff.

He's always been afraid to commit one way or the other and he holds true to form. I'm glad he's putting the Sixers trade stuff to bed. That was a stupid rumor.

[All Net]

I think in a league with a lack of dominant big men you have to love what Embiid could become. Maybe in league with more bigs it isn

[hawksdogsbraves]

I don't think those guys are any safer than Embiid and I'm not buying this Rizzo nonsense OP posted. All reports are that the medical went fine, and as long as he's healthy, Embiid's floor is a souped up, bigger Ibaka. I see that as his floor.

We have more to risk passing on Embiid than we do taking him and an injury happening. If you pass on this guy and he approaches his Olajuwon-esque ceiling, we'll never hear the end of it. Things are set up perfectly. All of these past drafts where we could have taken the franchise center and didn't -- Valanciunas, Drummond, Noel, Len -- has enabled the Cavs to be in the perfect position to take the best center prospect yet.

I just don't see any way you can justify passing on this guy.

I don't see Embiid's back as a huge problem. I think he'll deal with it and be a really, really good pro.

But rich-man's Ibaka is not his floor. His floor is Oden 2.0. He had back problems in college, he has rumors of back problems now. As much as you'd like to laugh it off as a rumor, he's a 7'0 dude with a history of back problems. You can't just ignore that.

[Milbuck]

Amico:



http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/nba-report-embiid-checked-out-but-who-s-no-1-061314

While I've said Amico's information is, for the first time, coming from the Cavs, he's still the same old Amico in a lot of ways. The idea that he doesn't believe the Cavs "have a frontrunner" at this point is comical. That's what they're feeding him... same thing with the Parker stuff.

He's always been afraid to commit one way or the other and he holds true to form. I'm glad he's putting the Sixers trade stuff to bed. That was a stupid rumor.
I just have a hard time believing that the concern is strictly a precautionary concern as of right now. The report you posted is filled with a ton of confidence and "he looks great, don't trust Rizzo" stuff.

But is it really just precautionary? I know they're not going to release any specific medial information, but it's still curious. Drummond had a stress fracture, and he recovered completely from it, and looks as explosive and physically dominant as ever. From all reports aside from Rizzo, Embiid looks terrific, even more physically dominant than he was with Kansas, with the 15 pounds of added muscle. Just the terms "stress fracture" and "back injury" are scary enough to warrant lingering worries...but if all his physical tests and workouts tested out great, what is the concern they explicitly mention? Is there something beyond just precautionary fear? Because there's an unusual amount of uncertainty and "maybe" about picking him #1 mentioned in the article. A lot of people like to compare this situation to Oden as a reason for fear, but it's really quite different outside of it being a big man with an injury.

[kureyşi-gospurs]

Uh oh I want him to be a HOF

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't see Embiid's back as a huge problem. I think he'll deal with it and be a really, really good pro.

But rich-man's Ibaka is not his floor. His floor is Oden 2.0. He had back problems in college, he has rumors of back problems now. As much as you'd like to laugh it off as a rumor, he's a 7'0 dude with a history of back problems. You can't just ignore that.
I qualified it by saying "as long as he's healthy." Obviously, your floor is a lot lower if you're dealing with constant injuries.

On that front, all the Cavs can do is study the MRIs and put him through physicals... which they apparently have done.


I just have a hard time believing that the concern is strictly a precautionary concern as of right now. The report you posted is filled with a ton of confidence and "he looks great, don't trust Rizzo" stuff.

But is it really just precautionary? I know they're not going to release any specific medial information, but it's still curious. Drummond had a stress fracture, and he recovered completely from it, and looks as explosive and physically dominant as ever. From all reports aside from Rizzo, Embiid looks terrific, even more physically dominant than he was with Kansas, with the 15 pounds of added muscle. Just the terms "stress fracture" and "back injury" are scary enough to warrant lingering worries...but if all his physical tests and workouts tested out great, what is the concern they explicitly mention? Is there something beyond just precautionary fear? Because there's an unusual amount of uncertainty and "maybe" about picking him #1 mentioned in the article. A lot of people like to compare this situation to Oden as a reason for fear, but it's really quite different outside of it being a big man with an injury.

I think the "concern" stems from Amico being too meek to really read the tea leaves and make a bold leap. That would be my honest answer to your question.

Just because he now actually does have real information doesn't necessarily mean his information is accurate or that he's bright enough to see through the smoke. I still think Amico is a lousy journalist.

If the medical and physicals really did go well, and all legitimate sources say they did, all of this other stuff is just noise imo. It's the franchise not wanting to give out too much information too soon in the process. I believe the closer we get to the draft, the more focused it will become. No doubt in my mind there is a clear frontrunner at the moment.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Let's be real though, where there's smoke, there could potentially be fire.

For all the 'potential' Embiid has, you're still taking a risk. Kid had back problems in college, and big men have an inherent risk always.

As much as Embiid looks like 'the best big since Hakeem' he could easily be the 'biggest bust since Oden'. That's the risk you take when you pick a seven footer who didn't prove a whole lot in college and has a history of injury.

Is he the clear frontrunner in the draft? Yes.

So was Oden.

[RedBlackAttack]

Let's be real though, where there's smoke, there could potentially be fire.

For all the 'potential' Embiid has, you're still taking a risk. Kid had back problems in college, and big men have an inherent risk always.

As much as Embiid looks like 'the best big since Hakeem' he could easily be the 'biggest bust since Oden'. That's the risk you take when you pick a seven footer who didn't prove a whole lot in college and has a history of injury.
I think there's equal or more risk with taking Wiggins or Parker over him. This idea that these guys are risk-free is sort of strange to me. Both are tremendous talents with a good amount of upside, but either or both could also completely flame out. This is an inexact science.

Parker is a high usage scorer who may already be close to maximizing his potential in that regard, but a major question mark on the other end of the floor and as a playmaker.

Wiggins is a ridiculous athlete and physical specimen with major questions surrounding his motor, handles and playmaking ability.

Everyone talks about the risk with Embiid... what about the risk involved in taking Wiggins if he never gets his handles together and is passive offensively on the next level?

How would another high usage scorer who can't defend fit on a team with Kyrie and Dion already fighting for shots? Doesn't that have the potential to be a trainwreck?

That's why I don't think you can draft scared. Kyrie had injury concerns coming out of Duke and that's a major reason a lot of people were advocating taking Derrick Williams No. 1 and Brandon Knight at 4. That would have been the perceived "safer" bet.

Does it look safe in retrospect... or just awful? Williams went 15 picks ahead of Kawhi Leonard in that draft. Had you asked someone to compare the two at the time of the draft, most would have laughed you out of the room (in favor of DWill). There is no safety net in drafts.

You're taking a risk regardless of who you pick... I'll go with the top prospect and hope for the best.

[All Net]

Let's be real though, where there's smoke, there could potentially be fire.

For all the 'potential' Embiid has, you're still taking a risk. Kid had back problems in college, and big men have an inherent risk always.

As much as Embiid looks like 'the best big since Hakeem' he could easily be the 'biggest bust since Oden'. That's the risk you take when you pick a seven footer who didn't prove a whole lot in college and has a history of injury.

Is he the clear frontrunner in the draft? Yes.

So was Oden.

Any draft pick can be a risk. It's all based on potenial.

[BoutPractice]

Let's not be naive here. Those rumors are part of the game.

[ZenMaster]

Any draft pick can be a risk. It's all based on potenial.

Means nothing as it isn't equal risk.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

anthony bennets physical was superb tho

[All Net]

Means nothing as it isn't equal risk.

Risk is risk, there is no sure thing in sports.

[ZenMaster]

Risk is risk, there is no sure thing in sports.

It might rain on any given day, but me knowing the chance of it happening will go up by reading a forecast.

[DukeDelonte13]

well does he have any physicals or workouts scheduled with any other teams?

[All Net]

It might rain on any given day, but me knowing the chance of it happening will go up by reading a forecast.

Thats deep Zen.

[All Net]

well does he have any physicals or workouts scheduled with any other teams?

Doesn't seem like it, not heard anything. You would think other teams will still work him out. Wiggins and Parker are working out with the Cavs.

[Derka]

:oldlol:

If he drops to Boston :applause:

I'll drop an immediate deuce in my drawers.

[GimmeThat]

unless they were SET on having the #1 pick on Embiid. and it was well known around the league. and now because of this examination, they are ACTIVELY trying to trade their #1 pick away.

then you know, logically, there's absolutely no reason to spread out false rumor.

[HurricaneKid]

unless they were SET on having the #1 pick on Embiid. and it was well known around the league. and now because of this examination, they are ACTIVELY trying to trade their #1 pick away.

then you know, logically, there's absolutely no reason to spread out false rumor.

And if this is the case who is to say they aren't leaking misinformation so they can trade the #1 for the #3/10 and hope that Embiid isn't there for them at the 3?

There is ZERO reason to trust ANY information from any team about the draft right before the draft. Hopefully this forces Embiid to workout and allow them to do physicals for the other top teams or he risks a drop.

[All Net]

And if this is the case who is to say they aren't leaking misinformation so they can trade the #1 for the #3/10 and hope that Embiid isn't there for them at the 3?

There is ZERO reason to trust ANY information from any team about the draft right before the draft. Hopefully this forces Embiid to workout and allow them to do physicals for the other top teams or he risks a drop.

You would think they have to?

[Meticode]

unless they were SET on having the #1 pick on Embiid. and it was well known around the league. and now because of this examination, they are ACTIVELY trying to trade their #1 pick away.

then you know, logically, there's absolutely no reason to spread out false rumor.
Actually it's stated that the reason the info is leaked is that if they decide to swap the pick with Philly, they want the Bucks to pass on him.

[Meticode]

More on the back checking out fine and then this report...

http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/06/13/joe-kotochs-mock-draft-4-0-embiids-back-checks-out-fine/

[GimmeThat]

And if this is the case who is to say they aren't leaking misinformation so they can trade the #1 for the #3/10 and hope that Embiid isn't there for them at the 3?

There is ZERO reason to trust ANY information from any team about the draft right before the draft. Hopefully this forces Embiid to workout and allow them to do physicals for the other top teams or he risks a drop.


Of course no one says that they couldn't be leaking misinformation.

but tricks like these can only be used once in the league by one team. and it is immuned literally right away and everyone picks up on it right after.

people might even get fired at the top pick position before they get the chance to learn and be immuned to tricks like these.