How Would You Rank Kobe's and Duncan's Playoff Runs?

[T_L_P]

Kobe (PPG / RPG / APG / SPG / BPG)

2000: 21.1 / 4.5 / 4.4 / 1.5 / 1.5

.517 TS% / 19.3 PER / 2.1 WS / .115 WS/48 / 107 ORtg / 107 DRtg

2001: 29.4 / 7.3 / 6.1 / 1.6 / 0.8

.555 TS% / 25.0 PER / 3.8 WS / .260 WS/48 / 116 ORtg / 99 DRtg

2002: 26.6 / 5.8 / 4.6 / 1.4 / 0.9

.511 TS% / 20.5 PER / 2.6 WS / .148 WS/48 / 106 ORtg / 103 DRtg

2009: 30.2 / 5.3 / 5.5 / 1.7 / 0.9

.564 TS% / 26.8 PER / 4.7 WS / .238 WS/48 / 117 ORtg / 104 DRtg

2010: 29.2 / 6.0 / 5.5 / 1.3 / 0.7

.567 TS% / 24.7 PER / 3.6 WS / .190 WS/48 / 115 ORtg / 109 DRtg

--

Duncan (PPG / RPG / APG / SPG / BPG)

1999: 23.2 / 11.5 / 2.8 / 0.8 / 2.6

.573 TS% / 25.1 PER / 3.7 WS / .243 WS/48 / 110 ORtg / 92 DRtg

2003: 24.7 / 15.4 / 5.3 / 0.6 / 3.3

.577 TS% / 28.4 PER / 5.9 WS / .279 WS/48 / 116 ORtg / 92 DRtg

2005: 23.6 / 12.4 / 2.7 . 0.3 / 2.3 /

.526 TS% / 24.9 PER / 3.5 WS / .191 WS/48 / 111 ORtg / 98 DRtg

2007: 22.2 / 11.5 / 3.3 / 0.7 / 3.1

.556 TS% / 27.4 PER / 3.3 WS / .214 WS/48 / 111 ORtg / 101 DRtg

--
My rankings:
2003
2009
1999
2001
2007
2010
2005
2002
2000

[STATUTORY]

so you only picked years that culminated in championships?

[T_L_P]

so you only picked years that culminated in championships?

Meant to put championship runs in the title. You Kobe stans are calling Duncan a role player right now and that this ring means nothing...that's why I'm asking you to compare their individual runs.

[Mr Feeny]

On the whole, it's Duncan I think. You've used pretty much every metric available and Duncan comes out on top in nearly all of them. Not to say Kobe wasn't a star in his own right. But Duncan was simply more effective during his championship runs.

[GimmeThat]

I'll give you 2 rankings

2005
2009
1999/2010/2005

in this one, I went by efficiency. Duncan in 2005 just ran through the WC, and the only team that had legitimately to lower his efficiency was probably the Pistons, in which he won out right.
same thing applies to Kobe in 2009, where "maybe" he had some tough opponents on the WC, but running into the Magic in the finals pretty much just made his stats even better.

To me the 1999/2010/2005 campaign were all similar, Pau played a larger role in 2010. David Robinson played a larger role in 1999, Parker/Ginobili played a larger role in 2005

I only accounted the years where the players actually won the Finals MVP.


2010/2003/2005
2009
1999

I ranked the 2010/2003/2005 all together because from watching the game, I actually thought that the Lakers run against the Celtics was more impressive than the 09 run, even it took a huge hit to the stats. Just as I put the 2003/2005 up there, because in 03 Duncan passed the Kobe/Shaq group, and in 05, they beat a very legitimate Pistons team.

Then I put the 2009 run OVER the 1999 shorten season.


I only compared the FMVP seasons, because I didn't want to get into the comparison between Kobe's 2002 to Duncan's 2007.

we can all see that had Duncan ever had a playoff performance like Kobe did in the 2000. His team probably wouldn't win. 2001 and 2002 are up for debate.

Again, the 02 to 07 comparison could probably warrant its own thread.

[Thorn]

going by tiers

Tier 1 (although I think 03 is clearly the best, others about the same level)
03, 01, 09, 05

Tier 2:
07, 02, 10, 99

Tier 3:
00, 14 if he wins

[Anaximandro1]

We have Per 100 Team Possessions (Basketball Reference). Just make sure both players log heavy minutes.


1999 - 2005

1) Offense -> Duncan is the better offensive player.

Duncan is the better scorer, is a phenomenal offensive rebounder, puts your bigs in foul trouble, draws constant double teams, has higher PER, etc.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-32S0I46BxhE/U5xxn4aSDKI/AAAAAAAAC88/u5PzOeue_RE/s1600/5.jpg



2) Defense -> Duncan demolishes Kobe. Simple as that.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qMkllTbH1CU/U5xxn3NUStI/AAAAAAAAC84/TovGPr3zHKk/s1600/6.jpg


Kobe has three rings because he played with peak Shaq.

---------------------------------

2006 - 2007

NBA rule changes favor the perimeter player... Kobe manages to combine volume with efficiency for the first time in his NBA career, but Duncan is still the best player in the NBA by a considerable margin.


1) Offense

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-CSWDMJ2TNpo/U5xxn8LVseI/AAAAAAAAC80/xsZwYAS4Bxo/s1600/7.jpg


2) Defense


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-qEKiMcZDkCI/U5xxoj81jMI/AAAAAAAAC9I/240i9Zcc-xk/s1600/8.jpg

-------------------------

2008 - 2010

Kobe takes full advantage of the new rules and Duncan's physical decline... Bryant is light years ahead of Duncan for a few years. It's basically Kobe vs. LeBron.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-PK_Iw7Rm9xU/U5xxordmXLI/AAAAAAAAC9A/c6pHsTDDeBU/s1600/9.jpg


--------------------------

Eye Test

Duncan vs Suns 1998 Playoffs
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0)
Duncan's first playoff game ever ... "This is a rookie single-handedly taking over the game".


Shaq vs. Duncan '03 West Semis Game 6 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR6AgYWdoBQ)

Duncan 37 pt /16 rb


Spurs 42-15 Run vs. Mavericks (2003 WCF Game 6) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI)

Duncan's teammates are wide open ... Mavs are all over him before he even touches the ball.


2007 WCSF (Game 3, 33 points) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lNVguJx1oQ)

33 pt / 19 rb ... still capable of creating his own shot.

[T_L_P]

going by tiers

Tier 1 (although I think 03 is clearly the best, others about the same level)
03, 01, 09, 05

Tier 2:
07, 02, 10, 99

Tier 3:
00, 14 if he wins

Good list. I would personally put 03 Duncan on another tier from the rest,

[Odinn]

Title runs would be more accurate IMO for this discussion. Because since both are all-time greats, they had some great non-winning playoff runs.

Tier 1; 2003 Duncan
Tier 2; 1999 Duncan / 2005 Duncan / 2007 Duncan / 2009 Kobe / 2010 Kobe
Tier 3; 2001 Kobe
Tier 4; 2002 Kobe
Tier 5; 2000 Kobe

If Duncan wins a ring in 2014 Finals, his run would make the Tier 4 alongside 2002 Kobe.

Duncan's title run in 2003 is the only title-run which can be talked about in goat title-run talk.

1st Round against the Suns; 19/16/5/4 on .521 fg .692 ft [31.5 eff]
2nd Round against the Lakers; 28/12/5/1 on .529 fg .702 ft [31.8 eff]
WC Finals against the Mavs; 28/17/6/3 on .569 fg .638 ft [39.3 eff]
NBA Finals against the Nets; 24/17/5/5 on .495 fg .685 ft [37.0 eff]

Edit: I forgot to rank 2002 Kobe first, and then edited the post.

[SexSymbol]

Title runs would be more accurate IMO for this discussion. Because since both are all-time greats, they had some great non-winning playoff runs.

Tier 1; 2003 Duncan
Tier 2; 1999 Duncan / 2005 Duncan / 2007 Duncan / 2009 Kobe / 2010 Kobe
Tier 3; 2001 Kobe
Tier 4; 2000 Kobe

If Duncan wins a ring in 2014 Finals, his run would make 2000 Kobe Tier 5 and stands alone in Tier 4.

Duncan's title run in 2003 is the only title-run which can be talked about in goat title-run talk.

1st Round against the Suns; 19/16/5/4 on .521 fg .692 ft [31.5 eff]
2nd Round against the Lakers; 28/12/5/1 on .529 fg .702 ft [31.8 eff]
WC Finals against the Mavs; 28/17/6/3 on .569 fg .638 ft [39.3 eff]
NBA Finals against the Nets; 24/17/5/5 on .495 fg .685 ft [37.0 eff]
Tier 3 01 Kobe?
You seem to have not watched anything from back then

[Odinn]

Tier 3 01 Kobe?
You seem to have not watched anything from back then
Exact opposite. I've been watching NBA since 1999.

But there is no point of discussing that. This forum has witnessed a lot of pointless threads about Kobe's 2001 performance and situation. You can find them via Google.

[Nowitness]

wow, these numbers. :biggums:

[dubeta]

2 stars out of 5

*exits thread*

[dubeta]

On a side note, neither Kobe or Duncan ever had a 30 PER championship run?? :eek:

I'm actually surprise, heck even Duncans 2003 run which so many people like to rave about is only a 28 PER run


LeBron has 3 30+ PER Playoff Runs including a ridiculous 37.4 PER in 2009!! And if you include championship runs LeBron has a 30+PER Run in 2012 which also resulted in a championship and FMVP


Now back to the topic Duncan probably had the better overall championship run.

[Real14]

Kobe was better.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why do people use drgt & orgt for individual players :facepalm

It wasn't made for that.

Going by drgt Dirk & Pippen were on equal footing defensively for their careers.

[Droid101]

Why do people use drgt & orgt for individual players :facepalm

Because they are biased assholes with stupid agendas.

[T_L_P]

On a side note, neither Kobe or Duncan ever had a 30 PER championship run?? :eek:

I'm actually surprise, heck even Duncans 2003 run which so many people like to rave about is only a 28 PER run


LeBron has 3 30+ PER Playoff Runs including a ridiculous 37.4 PER in 2009!! And if you include championship runs LeBron has a 30+PER Run in 2012 which also resulted in a championship and FMVP


Now back to the topic Duncan probably had the better overall championship run.

He had a 30.4 PER in 05-06, but that's his only one.

[Big#50]

2003














Who cares?