Who here genuinely thinks Lebron James is top 5 in NBA history?

[BigBoss]

Who thinks he's top 5?

[kamil]

http://i58.tinypic.com/9gebli.jpg

[Straight_Ballin]

If he loses to old man spurs team, then he will only ever be in a top 20 discussion.

[Fudge]

I have him at 12-13 right now. If he would have won this series, he enters my top 10.

[russwest0]

If he loses to old man spurs team, then he will only ever be in a top 20 discussion.

This.

[BoutPractice]

He's "only" somewhere in the top 10 at the moment, but he seems to be following an irresistible trajectory that will land him there eventually.

Unless of course this is the beginning of the end of his career... but somehow I doubt it. Keep in mind he's not even 30 yet...

[Clyde]

Talent wise yes.

Legacy wise absolutely not.

[SexSymbol]

top 15
behind moses and dr. J

[moe94]

If he loses to old man spurs team, then he will only ever be in a top 20 discussion.

Heat are just as old as the Spurs

[K Xerxes]

Peak for peak, he's in the top 5 player I've ever seen, and it's not particularly close in my eyes. Resume-wise remains to be seen. I think he ends up top 5 when all is said and done whatever happens this year.

If the Heat lose, I don't think this finals will hurt his legacy too much. Even if he was aggressive from the onset of games, the Spurs have just been so hot that I don't see how it makes much of a difference with some of the Heat players simply not showing up. At some point, putting all of the blame on the superstar when his team is just outmatched is too harsh.

[lilgodfather1]

Not top 5, but if he can turn this series around and win it definitely. That isn't going to happen though.

He will likely end his career as a top 5 player, as a member of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

[GimmeThat]

Shaq had the talent.

besides that, from watching basketball in my 13-14 years.

Lebron is better than both Kobe/Duncan in terms of potential from what I've seen.


Based on those observations.

Yea, I genuinely think Lebron has what it takes to be top 5 in NBA history.

[brantonli]

If this is the end of his championships (which would be a huge shame for a player with this talent), I'd still rank him over Hakeem, 2 rings, 4 MVPs, undeniably the best player in the league. And since Hakeem is usually on the fringe of the top 10, then yeah LeBron won't be top 5, but top 10 at least.

[Lebronxrings]

hes in my top 4 of all time. He carried a pathetic cleveland squad and a washed up miami heat. Right now my top 4 is: Jordan, magic, KAJ, Lebron. Assuming we go by hypotheticals and give lebron the teams that the others had; most likely he would be the undisputed greatest player.

[Marchesk]

Right now my top 4 is: Jordan, magic, KAJ, Lebron.

Magic and Lebron don't belong ahead of Wilt and Russell. You have Kareem in the list, so that era bullshit doesn't fly.

[Beastmode88]

He has top 5 athleticism but doesn't have what it takes to win mentally.

[Lebronxrings]

He has top 5 athleticism but doesn't have what it takes to win mentally.
blah, blah keeping hating on someone you wish you could be. Its not his fault his team freaking sucks! Im tired of you idiots saying its his fault! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT JORDAN NOR KOBE NOR SHAQ NOR DUNCAN NOR ANYONE COULD HELP THIS PATHETIC TEAM OUT NOW!? LEBRON COULD AVG 50 AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE AND LEBRON WOULD GET BLAMED. GO DO SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR PATHETIC, LONER ASS LIFE.

[K Xerxes]

He has top 5 athleticism but doesn't have what it takes to win mentally.

He's won two rings as the leader, so clearly he does.

[Xoush]

Great player, it would be fair to him to rank him in the same tier as Dirk/KG.

[Beastmode88]

blah, blah keeping hating on someone you wish you could be. Its not his fault his team freaking sucks! Im tired of you idiots saying its his fault! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT JORDAN NOR KOBE NOR SHAQ NOR DUNCAN NOR ANYONE COULD HELP THIS PATHETIC TEAM OUT NOW!? LEBRON COULD AVG 50 AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE AND LEBRON WOULD GET BLAMED. GO DO SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR PATHETIC, LONER ASS LIFE.

whoa meltdown inc.

[dannywpt]

hes in my top 4 of all time. He carried a pathetic cleveland squad and a washed up miami heat. Right now my top 4 is: Jordan, magic, KAJ, Lebron. Assuming we go by hypotheticals and give lebron the teams that the others had; most likely he would be the undisputed greatest player.

:roll:

[atljonesbro]

Championship this year puts him in the top 5. It's basically impossible to argue against it if he wins

[Cold soul]

Not even close to top 5. Lebron top 15 right now, I personally have him ranked 11th or 12th.

[kamil]

hes in my top 4 of all time. He carried a pathetic cleveland squad and a washed up miami heat. Right now my top 4 is: Jordan, magic, KAJ, Lebron. Assuming we go by hypotheticals and give lebron the teams that the others had; most likely he would be the undisputed greatest player.

Just a friendly reminder:

http://i58.tinypic.com/9gebli.jpg

[imnew09]

He's won two rings as the leader, so clearly he does.

I somewhat disagree, I didn't see him winning shit as a leader with the Cavs until he joined 2 SUPERSTARS who were still peaking during The Decision

[Kingwillball]

I think a win this year would of put him in top 5 but now he still has a little work to do he is in top 10 either way and will continue to shatter stat records by the time he is done but needs a couple more championships to be locked in top 5.

[-23-]

Magic and Lebron don't belong ahead of Wilt and Russell. You have Kareem in the list, so that era bullshit doesn't fly.

Lol Wilt has NO case over Magic.

[the mesiah]

Magic and Lebron don't belong ahead of Wilt and Russell. You have Kareem in the list, so that era bullshit doesn't fly.
:biggums: u got russell over earvin ?

[Cone]

he is top 5-7 right now. but when his career ends he's there in the top 3, which 1-3 becomes interchangeable

[J Shuttlesworth]

This.
You saying Durant will never be top 10? he lost to the same team :biggums:

[sportjames23]

In no particular order (other than MJ at #1)

MJ
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
West
Oscar
Dream
Shaq
Barkley
Duncan
Malone
Kobe
Dr. J


Lebron ain't higher on the All Time list than these gentlemen on my list

[uber]

blah, blah keeping hating on someone you wish you could be. Its not his fault his team freaking sucks! Im tired of you idiots saying its his fault! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT JORDAN NOR KOBE NOR SHAQ NOR DUNCAN NOR ANYONE COULD HELP THIS PATHETIC TEAM OUT NOW!? LEBRON COULD AVG 50 AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE AND LEBRON WOULD GET BLAMED. GO DO SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR PATHETIC, LONER ASS LIFE.

so if his team would be better this would make him as an individual the GOAT? is this what you're trying to say

[J Shuttlesworth]

I don't think he's top 5 yet, but he still has so much time left.

Unfortunately, this finals loss keeps him in the same tier as Kobe/Hakeem and he doesn't move up to the Magic/Bird tier. He's probably between 7-9 on the top 10 list

[J Shuttlesworth]

so if his team would be better this would make him as an individual the GOAT? is this what you're trying to say
Well that's how basketball always worked. Kinda stupid, but people always base individual rankings on their team accomplishments. MVPs hold less weight than rings. Kobe's legacy gets boosted a lot by what Shaq/others did, and Wade is a 3 time champ mostly because of LeBron/others

[NumberSix]

I do.

[Kidbasketball20]

Right now he's in the top 20 all time, no better.


Had he won 2 rings in Cleveland he'd be top 5 for me no question.

[fandarko]

top 15
behind moses and dr. J

I'm not a big Lebron fan, but c'mon.

He is better than both.

Dr J might be more popular, but he wasn't the player Lebron has been, honestly.

Moses was great, but again, not the player Lebron has been. A tier below.

If he ended his career right now, Lebron is top tier Top 10.

You can't really rank them, lots of great players, nobody's really head and shoulders above the rest, with MJ being a tad better than the rest of them Wilts, KAJ's, Russels, Magics, Birds, Shaq's, Kobes and Hakeems...

[stalkerforlife]

Who thinks he's top 5?

Trolls that want to anger you.

[KBaller33]

He's in the 7-10 range with Hakeem, Shaq, and Kobe. Don't understand how he's not top 10. You can't really blame him for these finals like you could 2011. He's shown up in the finals the past three years.

[stalkerforlife]

He's in the 7-10 range with Hakeem, Shaq, and Kobe. Don't understand how he's not top 10. You can't really blame him for these finals like you could 2011. He's shown up in the finals the past three years.

He's shown up in these finals?

:facepalm

It hurts me to be such an avid fan of basketball when I see comments like this. Novices make me cringe with disbelief and hatred.

[Derka]

He's between 10-12 for me right now. Skill and talent wise, he's as good as the best who have ever played the game. However, when you're talking all-time ranking, there's a lot more that goes into it. Teaming up with two other superstars in their prime to limit the competition you have to face counts against you from any objective standpoint.

Had Riley pulled off trades for Bosh and James and brought them to Miami that way, I'd be far more impressed with what Miami has done.

[KBaller33]

He's shown up in these finals?

:facepalm

It hurts me to be such an avid fan of basketball when I see comments like this. Novices make me cringe with disbelief and hatred.

So he's putting up 28 and 7 on 60% percent shooting but he's not giving effort or showing up? He hasn't been super aggressive all the time but he's far from the reason the Heat are down 3-1. He was the reason they lost in 2011. I was just stating the difference from 2011 and 2014.

[stalkerforlife]

So he's putting up 28 and 7 on 60% percent shooting but he's not giving effort or showing up? He hasn't been super aggressive all the time but he's far from the reason the Heat are down 3-1. He was the reason they lost in 2011. I was just stating the difference from 2011 and 2014.

I. don't. care. about. his. meaningless. and. padded. stats.

:facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's tough with LeBron, man. His abilities, and potential is astronomical when he plays the way I feel he should play. Not the way he typically plays. So I'm going to say tenatively yes.

But the truth is he often vacillates between legit top 5 player all-time, and more like just a top 5 talent. Often due to intangibles, and mentality that limit his ceiling IMO. But then he'll have one of those random games where he looks like possibly the greatest player of all-time on Jordan's level.

[STATUTORY]

It's tough with LeBron, man. His abilities, and potential is astronomical when he plays the way I feel he should play. Not the way he typically plays. So I'm going to say tenatively yes.

But the truth is he often vacillates between legit top 5 player all-time, and more like just a top 5 talent. Often due to intangibles, and mentality that limit his ceiling IMO. But then he'll have one of those random games where he looks like possibly the greatest player of all-time on Jordan's level.
lebron's biggest flaw is actually physical. he simply does NOT have as agile a first step as MJ or Kobe or possess as much body control or coordination, the guy needed a pick and roll as soon as he came into the league. he was never quite the offensive scorer or possessed that arsenal of moves. People don't understand the spectrum of metrics that athleticism really spans, they just see a guy with long strides and good hops and think he's most athletic. Athleticism wise, MJ blows Lebron out of the water.

he can't dominate games like MJ not because of will, but he simply can't. he cant make tough jumpers consitenly, beat his defender off the dribble without a pick and roll etc.

[SamuraiSWISH]

lebron's biggest flaw is actually physical.


he can't dominate games like MJ not because of will, but he simply can't. he cant make tough jumpers consitenly, beat his defender off the dribble without a pick and roll etc.

:biggums:

[Threethrows]

I. don't. care. about. his. meaningless. and. padded. stats.

:facepalm

What the hell are meaningless stats in the FINALS?:biggums:

[KBaller33]

I. don't. care. about. his. meaningless. and. padded. stats.

:facepalm

So what do you care about then? I agree he hasn't been as aggressive as he should be but to say he hasn't shown up in this series? Lol ok. It must be his fault Wade's playing like he's 40 and neither of the Heat's point guards can do anything.

[STATUTORY]

:biggums:

it's true, don't mistake long strides and high vertical with explosive first step and body control. Lebron isn't elite when it comes to the latter two.

[KBaller33]

It's tough with LeBron, man. His abilities, and potential is astronomical when he plays the way I feel he should play. Not the way he typically plays. So I'm going to say tenatively yes.

But the truth is he often vacillates between legit top 5 player all-time, and more like just a top 5 talent. Often due to intangibles, and mentality that limit his ceiling IMO. But then he'll have one of those random games where he looks like possibly the greatest player of all-time on Jordan's level.

This.

[K Xerxes]

I somewhat disagree, I didn't see him winning shit as a leader with the Cavs until he joined 2 SUPERSTARS who were still peaking during The Decision

No all time great won shit before the team around them was good enough.

And Bosh being a superstar. :oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

What the hell are meaningless stats in the FINALS?:biggums:

No. Impact.

Not. Aggressive.

Padded. Stats. Due. To. Lack. Of. Aggression.

Would. Rather. See. 6-24. Type. Games.

[PsychoBe]

No all time great won shit before the team around them was good enough.

And Bosh being a superstar. :oldlol:

hakeem won with kenny smith and maxwell :roll: :roll: :roll:

so let's define "good enough" please :applause:

does he need melo and lowry too? :roll: :roll:

[dc_chilling]

lebron's biggest flaw is actually physical. he simply does NOT have as agile a first step as MJ or Kobe or possess as much body control or coordination, the guy needed a pick and roll as soon as he came into the league. he was never quite the offensive scorer or possessed that arsenal of moves. People don't understand the spectrum of metrics that athleticism really spans, they just see a guy with long strides and good hops and think he's most athletic. Athleticism wise, MJ blows Lebron out of the water.

he can't dominate games like MJ not because of will, but he simply can't. he cant make tough jumpers consitenly, beat his defender off the dribble without a pick and roll etc.

I don't know what you're smoking but let me get some.

Lebron is simply on another level athletically from Jordan. 2009 Lebron was the most athletic player I've ever seen on a basketball court.

[houston]

not yet but he is top 10 of all-time

[dubeta]

LeBron is already top 6 :facepalm

It's simple, most media analysts/fans put him ahead of Bird as GOAT SF

So if Bird is unanimously Top 7, then shouldn't LeBron be top 6 minimum

I dont get the logic of some of these posters who admit that LeBron is atleast in the discussion with Bird, but rank Bird top 6 while put LeBron out of the top 10

[pastis]

if bron isnt top 10 for some people here, so what is wade? top 130138919313?

[STATUTORY]

I don't know what you're smoking but let me get some.

Lebron is simply on another level athletically from Jordan. 2009 Lebron was the most athletic player I've ever seen on a basketball court.
why? cause of fastbreak dunks and how high he got? :rolleyes:

[KBaller33]

lebron's biggest flaw is actually physical. he simply does NOT have as agile a first step as MJ or Kobe or possess as much body control or coordination, the guy needed a pick and roll as soon as he came into the league. he was never quite the offensive scorer or possessed that arsenal of moves. People don't understand the spectrum of metrics that athleticism really spans, they just see a guy with long strides and good hops and think he's most athletic. Athleticism wise, MJ blows Lebron out of the water.

he can't dominate games like MJ not because of will, but he simply can't. he cant make tough jumpers consitenly, beat his defender off the dribble without a pick and roll etc.

In Cleveland he had a crazy first step. He lost some of his athleticism once he got to Miami for some reason but back then athleticism was not a problem.

[PickernRoller]

hakeem won with kenny smith and maxwell :roll: :roll: :roll:

so let's define "good enough" please :applause:

does he need melo and lowry too? :roll: :roll:

K Xerses is a massive LeTard with a Jordan avy exposed long before (an alt) - he doesn't even try to hide it now....:oldlol: :oldlol:

Lebron - superstar. Wade - superstar. Bosh - all-star PF/C.

Quality role players: Shane Battier(defense, 3pt shooting), Chalmers (starting PG), Cole (bench spark), Ray (best 3pt shooter the game has ever seen). Haslem (warrior), Rashard (3pt shooting), Joel (paint defense), Anderson (paint defense/rebounding/hustle)....

[uber]

Well that's how basketball always worked. Kinda stupid, but people always base individual rankings on their team accomplishments. MVPs hold less weight than rings. Kobe's legacy gets boosted a lot by what Shaq/others did, and Wade is a 3 time champ mostly because of LeBron/others

i know it, you know it but a lot of guys here always credit [insert fav players name] when they are winning but when they are loosing it's the teams fault.

[sdot_thadon]

It's tough with LeBron, man. His abilities, and potential is astronomical when he plays the way I feel he should play. Not the way he typically plays. So I'm going to say tenatively yes.

But the truth is he often vacillates between legit top 5 player all-time, and more like just a top 5 talent. Often due to intangibles, and mentality that limit his ceiling IMO. But then he'll have one of those random games where he looks like possibly the greatest player of all-time on Jordan's level.
Never thought I'd say this, but I agree. It's hard to have a concrete goat list with so many cases for those 10 spots but he's as high as four and as low as 7 in my book.

[dubeta]

In Cleveland he had a crazy first step. He lost some of his athleticism once he got to Miami for some reason but back then athleticism was not a problem.

Yea, look how quick he was here @ 0:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKj7H_4pJ-s

First step is overrated, as his quickness decreased his scoring efficiency went up

Strength is more valuable than quickness in the league, the court is small compared to the average NBA player, so the quickness advantage is lost as defenders can recover fast.

[Black Mamba's B]

Whoever thinks he is top five has questionable intellect

[ILLsmak]

He has an argument for 7, but then if you wanted to be bitchy you could drop him out of the top 10 too.

-Smak

[BoutPractice]

Who here believes LeBron "only" ends up with 2 championships when he retires? Because I don't. Even if he loses this year (and most likely he will) he probably ends up with at least 4 championships when it's all said and done. He won't hesitate to "team up" to get to that point if that becomes necessary.

And you guys will hate him for it. But at the end of the day, he'll retire with those 4+ championships, plus the accolades, and it'll be almost impossible for people to deny just how special his career was, and how comparable it is to only about 5 players in the history.

[Warfan]

Right now? No. I still think it's possible, pretty sure he isn't even 30 yet, he has got plenty of time to win more championships and add to his legacy.

[poido123]

With another failed finals with wsignificant help, hard to put this guy in front of guys like Duncan, Hakeem and Kobe.

[NumberSix]

K Xerses is a massive LeTard with a Jordan avy exposed long before (an alt) - he doesn't even try to hide it now....:oldlol: :oldlol:

Lebron - superstar. Wade - superstar. Bosh - all-star PF/C.

Quality role players: Shane Battier(defense, 3pt shooting), Chalmers (starting PG), Cole (bench spark), Ray (best 3pt shooter the game has ever seen). Haslem (warrior), Rashard (3pt shooting), Joel (paint defense), Anderson (paint defense/rebounding/hustle)....
Yeah, and they won 2 chips. What's the problem? :confusedshrug:

[The-Legend-24]

Losing record in the finals while pulling a houdini in the finals.... I would say around 20.

[poido123]

Depends where you rank individual ability/talent to career accomplishments.

Also got to look at best peak season/s.

[PickernRoller]

Top 15, not Top 10.

[NumberSix]

Losing record in the finals while pulling a houdini in the finals.... I would say around 20.
Unlike Kobe, LeBron's play actually impacts whether his team wins or loses.

[knicksman]

lebron's biggest flaw is actually physical. he simply does NOT have as agile a first step as MJ or Kobe or possess as much body control or coordination, the guy needed a pick and roll as soon as he came into the league. he was never quite the offensive scorer or possessed that arsenal of moves. People don't understand the spectrum of metrics that athleticism really spans, they just see a guy with long strides and good hops and think he's most athletic. Athleticism wise, MJ blows Lebron out of the water.

he can't dominate games like MJ not because of will, but he simply can't. he cant make tough jumpers consitenly, beat his defender off the dribble without a pick and roll etc.

I think its more mental. He didnt have the winners mentality so he developed the wrong skills. Hes not confident in winning rings so he went the statpadding route to fool idiots to give him MVPs. I mean this guy modeled his game from robertson(a career loser) instead of jordan. He lets people dictate his style(triple doubles) which is a beta mentality instead of having his own direction. Whereas kobe doesnt give a sht if hes labeled chucker because he knows what it takes to win.

[chazzy]

He has the ability and talent level to end up there with enough accomplishments, but he's at 11 for me right now.

[The-Legend-24]

Unlike Kobe, LeBron's play actually impacts whether his team wins or loses.
Kobe has 5 rings doe. :oldlol:

#Impact

[SamuraiSWISH]

Unlike Kobe, LeBron's play actually impacts whether his team wins or loses.
:facepalm

[Black and White]

LeBron is #11 for me right now, I don't know if he will reach top 5, he certainly has the talent to.

[La Frescobaldi]

I'm not a big Lebron fan, but c'mon.

He is better than both.

Dr J might be more popular, but he wasn't the player Lebron has been, honestly.

Moses was great, but again, not the player Lebron has been. A tier below.

If he ended his career right now, Lebron is top tier Top 10.

You can't really rank them, lots of great players, nobody's really head and shoulders above the rest, with MJ being a tad better than the rest of them Wilts, KAJ's, Russels, Magics, Birds, Shaq's, Kobes and Hakeems...

Did you watch a lot of Malone in the '70s / early '80s?

[Eye Test]

more like top 20 atm

[La Frescobaldi]

I don't know what you're smoking but let me get some.

Lebron is simply on another level athletically from Jordan. 2009 Lebron was the most athletic player I've ever seen on a basketball court.

did you never see Vince Carter?

[The_Pharcyde]

blah, blah keeping hating on someone you wish you could be. Its not his fault his team freaking sucks! Im tired of you idiots saying its his fault! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT JORDAN NOR KOBE NOR SHAQ NOR DUNCAN NOR ANYONE COULD HELP THIS PATHETIC TEAM OUT NOW!? LEBRON COULD AVG 50 AND THEY WOULD STILL LOSE AND LEBRON WOULD GET BLAMED. GO DO SOMETHING ELSE IN YOUR PATHETIC, LONER ASS LIFE.
Hahaha damn that's what a nervous breakdown looks like over text!! Lol!
Don't worry I'm sure lebron will be back in the finals soon

[Jasper]

Who thinks he's top 5?
can we put to rest one player can win a chip :banghead:

[hahaitme]

Mr. Jabbar PM'd me before he left the forums, confirmed that he legit thinks LeBron is top 5.

I disagreed of course, but oh well.