I don't get why people are acting like lebrons legacy is ruined...

[dc_chilling]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.

[DFish24]

2/5

[Adrenalynn]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.

LBJ is still that dude, but when his teammates don't raise their play with his in all honesty no way in hell you beat a Spurs team that plays actual team ball. LBJ is still King of the NBA but not this year.

[The-Legend-24]

2/5

[ZaaaaaH]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.


Key word "IF"

For now his 2/5 and thats not impressive at all.

"IF" LeBron ends up being 6/9 or 6/11 then yes that would be amazing.

[Magic 32]

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.



http://media.giphy.com/media/WZmgVLMt7mp44/giphy.gif

[talkingconch]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/dat%20ass/grand/beer_drop_gif.gif

[veilside23]

2*/5

[Warfan]

His legacy isn't ruined at all. They played a better team and lost, it happens. They'll probably get to the finals few more times too (probably next year aswell since the east is so shit). Pretty sure he isn't even 30 yet either, so I'm sure he'll get another ring/rings

[Soundwave]

He's legacy's not ruined he can still be a top 5 player, but I think his chance at having a case against Jordan or perhaps even Russell or Kareem diminishes quite a bit by having a losing record in the Finals.

[dc_chilling]

http://www.gifsforum.com/images/gif/dat%20ass/grand/beer_drop_gif.gif

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that he could win 4 rings in the next 9 or 10 years. He has been to the finals every year for the past 4 years and there is no reason to believe he won't be there again next year.

I won't be surprised at all if he winds up with 6 rings to be honest.

[Soundwave]

I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that he could win 4 rings in the next 9 or 10 years. He has been to the finals every year for the past 4 years and there is no reason to believe he won't be there again next year.

I won't be surprised at all if he winds up with 6 rings to be honest.

His athleticism will start to decline at a noticable clip after age 31/32 ... Wade is already there. We'll see how he adjusts to that.

[Bless Mathews]

2/5

[dc_chilling]

His athleticism will start to decline at a noticable clip after age 31/32 ... Wade is already there. We'll see how he adjusts to that.

Aside from being a far better athlete and less injury prone than Wade was, he also is a much more complete player. There is no evidence that his game won't age smoothly.

[SpaceJammeR]

idk how going to the finals is a bad thing. his cleveland finals shouldn't really count but his team had no chance. it was an amazing feat even going to the finals. his only disappointing performance was 2011 against dallas. this year he did what he could but his teammates didn't show and spurs were just too good.

nothing wrong with 2/5. only guys saying 2/5 is lebron haters. same guys who's saying lebron choked or was terrible this series.

[zoom17]

idk how going to the finals is a bad thing. his cleveland finals shouldn't really count but his team had no chance. it was an amazing feat even going to the finals. his only disappointing performance was 2011 against dallas. this year he did what he could but his teammates didn't show and spurs were just too good.

nothing wrong with 2/5. only guys saying 2/5 is lebron haters. same guys who's saying lebron choked or was terrible this series.

:applause:

[deja vu]

He did ringchase in his prime so his legacy is kinda ruined. Even if he wins 5 or 6 titles people are going to bring that sh*t up. Which is kinda sad because I think he has the talent to win titles without that ringchasing BS.

[Adam Silver]

LeBron has been a true professional leading his team to 4 straight NBA Finals and 2 NBA Championships. Congrats to him on another thrilling playoff run.

[BasedTom]

LeBron has been a true professional leading his team to 4 straight NBA Finals and 2 NBA Championships. Congrats to him on another thrilling playoff run.
2/5 though? Yikes. You and Davey S have been slipping up a bit with the script, wouldn't you agree?

[Real14]

2*/5
End thread:applause:

[sekachu]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.



His legacy isn't ruined but he will not be compared with MJ for awhile.

At ages 30 is a turning point for every players. I am not sure lebron could maintain his dominant like MJ or kobe after 30 since his game based on his athleticism.

[Vienceslav]

If he won people would now put him top 5, some might even go top 3, so this is the opposite on the overreaction spectrum.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Don't confuse troll with rational people. Lebron played his role in this series, most of the heat look banged up and tired from 4 consecutive deep playoff runs in addition to having the oldest roster.
Lebron is still top ten all time, the trolls are just having their fun

[Adam Silver]

2/5 though? Yikes. You and Davey S have been slipping up a bit with the script, wouldn't you agree?

The NBA's research and marketing teams are top notch. After much research, it was determined that it was the best course of action for the NBA to allow the San Antonio Spurs to defeat the Miami Heat.

[iDunk]

2-5 , should be 1-5

[Marchesk]

The NBA's research and marketing teams are top notch. After much research, it was determined that it was the best course of action for the NBA to allow the San Antonio Spurs to defeat the Miami Heat.

Couldn't you have made it a little bit more dramatic?

[lilteapot]

The only number that counts in 2/5 is the number behind the '/'

[Roundball_Rock]

The dude is 29 with 4 MVPs and 2 rings. The East isn't getting stronger so he will likely be in the finals again for years to come. He will also likely rack up a few more MVPs as well.

Who cares if he is 2/5?

If he ends his career 6/9 in the finals or even 6/11 for that matter, it would be a lot more impressive than 6/6.

So Jordan stans, Kobe stans, Lebron stans, and whatever other stans are arguing over this meaningless shit...chill. Compare careers when they are over, not before players turn 30.

:applause:

Exactly. Only idiots would act as if reaching the Finals and losing is worse than losing in the conference finals or earlier. Besides, the hypocrisy is amusing. The same people who discredit the Heat for reaching 4 consecutive Finals (something only the Lakers, Celtics and Heat have done) because of the “Leastern conference” then turn on a dime to argue that, because the Heat made the Finals, LeBron’s team was capable of defeating the Western champion. Which is it? Either making the Finals is an achievement or the product of a weak conference, which in cases like 2007 and 2011 results in a vast disparity between the Finals teams.

It also is worth noting that all of his Finals losses have come against teams with a heavy foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras...

[Bernkastel]

I think he's going to end up as a top ten player when it's said and done, and I think most people here think that. It's very unlikely that he'll be placed above Jordan on most people's personal lists, but he's had a great career up to this point.

He still has at least a decade of playing barring some unfortunate injury, and with the state of the East right now, he still has plenty of chances to win more rings. There's no shame in losing to the Spurs.

People who are writing him off right now are just being reactionary or trolling.

[Lebron23]

I think he's going to end up as a top ten player when it's said and done, and I think most people here think that. It's very unlikely that he'll be placed above Jordan on most people's personal lists, but he's had a great career up to this point.

He still has at least a decade of playing barring some unfortunate injury, and with the state of the East right now, he still has plenty of chances to win more rings. There's no shame in losing to the Spurs.

People who are writing him off right now are just being reactionary or trolling.


He's already a top 10 player of all time. I put him over his fellow 2x Finals MVP Kobe and Hakeem.

I think next year Lebron would win his 5th NBA Regular Season MVP, and his 3rd finals MVP.

Only a retard and an idiot would blame Lebron. He averaged almost 29 ppg on 58 FG% in the finals. The Spurs were just a better overall team.

[lilgodfather1]

Losing in the first round > losing in the finals, not making the playoffs > losing in the finals.

At least that seems to be the moronic logic around here for the trolls.

Be has a clear path to the finals in the East for the next few years.

Who knows how Rose is going to come back, at this point it is best just to say they aren't a real contender, until proven otherwise

Indy's situation is up in the air with LS. He leaves, and they lose a lot.

Who is going to challenge whatever his team is? Miami with spot up jumper Bosh, and hobbled Wade?

Whatever team Melo is on? No come on now.

Cleveland, with Kyrie and Embiid? Maybe i guess if Embiid is a monster, but their inexperiwnce will shiw.

[Stringer Bell]

People just overreact to things.

Kobe's legacy wasn't ruined after the 2004 Finals, 2008 Finals, or getting swept in 2011. Duncan's wasn't after last year's finals, or blowing a 2-0 lead against the Thunder.

Magic's wasn't after the 84' Finals, or Bird after his horrible shooting in the 88' ECF against Detroit.

If Lebron wins a title in the next year or two, people will be slobbering over his nuts and saying he's the greatest ever. Then if his team loses the next year, his legacy will be "ruined" again

[NumberSix]

He's legacy's not ruined he can still be a top 5 player, but I think his chance at having a case against Jordan or perhaps even Russell or Kareem diminishes quite a bit by having a losing record in the Finals.
Every player outside of Bill Russell has a losing record in the playoffs. You win the chip or you don't. If you don't win the chip, making the finals is the best you can do.

[ripthekik]

2/5. almost 1/5.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Goldrush25]

It's a typical overreaction Monday.

[jstern]

He's legacy's not ruined he can still be a top 5 player, but I think his chance at having a case against Jordan or perhaps even Russell or Kareem diminishes quite a bit by having a losing record in the Finals.

It's not the losing record, the Spurs were simply a better team than the Heat. What diminishes his chances of having a case against Jordan is his not being able to step up many times, being passive, compared to a Jordan. That's the number one thing. Talent wise he's just too great, and the only thing that hurts him is not being able to go into that Jordan intensity level. Which turned that talent into a waste in 2011. But as far as him losing in these last Finals, the Spurs were simply better than the Heat.

[DMAVS41]

Ruined? Hardly.

But he's got a lot of work to be done to enter the top 5 of all time.

He's now solidified himself in that kobe/hakeem tier in my opinion.

Could go as high as number 9 all time or as low as 11 right now.

But I don't see how he gets ranked higher than 9th at this point.


But, virtually any chance he had of knocking at the MJ/Russell tier is gone.

[Straight_Ballin]

It's not the losing record, the Spurs were simply a better team than the Heat. What diminishes his chances of having a case against Jordan is his not being able to step up many times, being passive, compared to a Jordan. That's the number one thing. Talent wise he's just too great, and the only thing that hurts him is not being able to go into that Jordan intensity level. Which turned that talent into a waste in 2011. But as far as him losing in these last Finals, the Spurs were simply better than the Heat.

To be fair to lebald, Jordan was on a whole different level. He was obsessed. Let's be honest.

The whole "this kid is the next Jordan" was vastly overplayed, and used as a crutch by fans that were salty because they never got the pleasure of witnessing Jordan play first hand.

2/5, not going to repeat 3 peat, and too passive. He's got 10 players to go through to even be mentioned in the same breath as Jordan. It's not happening. I don't know how many more times I have to post this gif before it sinks in, because sadly it's still being argued.

https://i.imgflip.com/9m0yi.jpg

[Roundball_Rock]

What diminishes his chances of having a case against Jordan

Did Jordan have to play any team with key foreign players? Most of the Spurs top players are foreign and Dallas was led by a foreign player. Other than Detlef Schrempf, Seattle's third best player, when did Jordan face foreign competition in the Finals? It was a different era with a narrower talent pool. In fact, the Bulls were ahead of the curve in this area with Kukoc and Longley.

[jayfan]

He's legacy's not ruined he can still be a top 5 player, but I think his chance at having a case against Jordan or perhaps even Russell or Kareem diminishes quite a bit by having a losing record in the Finals.

This. His legacy hasn't been ruined, except to those who expected his legacy to be GOAT.

[BlackVVaves]

Ruined? Hardly.

But he's got a lot of work to be done to enter the top 5 of all time.

He's now solidified himself in that kobe/hakeem tier in my opinion.

Could go as high as number 9 all time or as low as 11 right now.

But I don't see how he gets ranked higher than 9th at this point.


But, virtually any chance he had of knocking at the MJ/Russell tier is gone.

This.

Bron is undoubtedly a better player than Kobe when comparing peaks in terms of production and play, but as far as ranking players based on their NBA careers and legacies? LeBron didn't surpass Kobe yet, which to me was a foregone conclusion earlier in the season presuming he'd threepeat.

In no way, shape, or form is 2 championship rings suffice to propel someone into the top 6 or 7.

[Bandito]

Did Jordan have to play any team with key foreign players? Most of the Spurs top players are foreign and Dallas was led by a foreign player. Other than Detlef Schrempf, Seattle's third best player, when did Jordan face foreign competition in the Finals? It was a different era with a narrower talent pool. In fact, the Bulls were ahead of the curve in this area with Kukoc and Longley.
Here comes the excuses....

[sportjames23]

2/5

[sportjames23]

Did Jordan have to play any team with key foreign players? Most of the Spurs top players are foreign and Dallas was led by a foreign player. Other than Detlef Schrempf, Seattle's third best player, when did Jordan face foreign competition in the Finals? It was a different era with a narrower talent pool. In fact, the Bulls were ahead of the curve in this area with Kukoc and Longley.

Wait, wait, wait--you saying foreign players would make a difference vs MJ?

Lord, I've done heard it all now.

I guess Vlade Divac and Detlef Schrempf were scrubs, huh?

[ihatetimthomas]

In any other situation with any other player, 2/5 in the finals would be amazing. But this isnt like any other situation, and this isnt just any player. This is a player who jumped ship from his home town team and teamed up with 2 top 10 players in their primes, and Wade was even considered probably top 5. They colluded together with the sole purpose of winning championships. It is somewhat of a short coming to me because 3 elite stars (2 of them superstars) combined forces basically on their own to win chips.

[Ne 1]

idk how going to the finals is a bad thing. his cleveland finals shouldn't really count but his team had no chance. it was an amazing feat even going to the finals. his only disappointing performance was 2011 against dallas. this year he did what he could but his teammates didn't show and spurs were just too good.

nothing wrong with 2/5. only guys saying 2/5 is lebron haters. same guys who's saying lebron choked or was terrible this series.
His 2007 Finals, it's not really the fact that he lost that series, but that he performed so far below what you would have expected from him is why it's a black mark. He averaged 22/7/7, but he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. That's horrendous for a player of James' caliber. Although I do give him somewhat of a pass for losing since nobody really expected the Cavs to beat the Spurs, but if he even played a little bit better, the series would have been closer instead of them being swept, specifically in Game's 3 and 4, it would have been 2-2 going to Cleveland. It's a black mark on his resume in a way not because he lost, but because of how poorly he played by his standards even back then. Although I don't really judge him based on that too much because he wasn't in his prime yet. Part of that was him being exposed as a terrible shooter. (For the entire season, he shot just 34.6% from 16-23 feet, 31.9% on 3s and 69.8% from the line.) LeBron's Finals this year were a lot like Durant's 2012 Finals. Yeah, his efficiency was great and his stats look pretty good on paper, but the rest of the game just wasn't there. His defense was mediocre, his play-making wasn't the same, and he was a turnover machine. Also, LeBron was clearly outplayed by Leonard in the two biggest games of the series on Bron's home court, he's a role player but looked like an All-Star in games 3-5 with LeBron defending him. Although unlike LeBron, for Durant's performance, he has the explanation of not being in his prime yet and inexperience/still learning the playoff ropes. LeBron was just inconsistent throughout the series outside of that great game 2. His lack of a killer instinct and passiveness in moments when the team needed him to step up was clearly an issue. With all that said however San Antonio was just simply the better team.

[dc_chilling]

In any other situation with any other player, 2/5 in the finals would be amazing. But this isnt like any other situation, and this isnt just any player. This is a player who jumped ship from his home town team and teamed up with 2 top 10 players in their primes, and Wade was even considered probably top 5. They colluded together with the sole purpose of winning championships. It is somewhat of a short coming to me because 3 elite stars (2 of them superstars) combined forces basically on their own to win chips.

Perhaps at the time it seemed that way, although I would argue Bosh was never a top 10 player.

However, where we stand today is a much different picture. Wade is no longer top 50 imo and Bosh is borderline top 30. That is how far off the grid those two have fallen. The bench is ancient at this point and I expect most of them to be out of the league within a year or two.

At this point, there are a dozen stars with a better supporting cast than Lebron. Maybe more. If the Heat want to keep competing for a championship, they need to make some major upgrades across the board.

[dc_chilling]

This. His legacy hasn't been ruined, except to those who expected his legacy to be GOAT.

I don't agree.

At the end of the day, he could very well end up as the leading scorer in NBA history, top 5 in assists (the only non pg in the top 20), and top 20 in rebounding.

Add in the likely MVPs, rings, finals appearances, DPOY awards, and whatever else he will accumulate by the end of his career and he will probably have a strong case.

At 29, Jordan had 3 rings,3 MVPs, and had been to the finals 3 times. He didn't win his 4th ring and 4th MVP until he was 32.

At 29, Lebron has 2 rings, 4 MVPs, and has been to the finals 5 times. By 32 I don't know what he will do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he adds to the totals above.

People spend so much time hating on the guy that they lose perspective. The dude is neck and neck with Jordan at the same age. Lebron isn't quitting to play baseball either.

[TheMan]

I don't agree.

At the end of the day, he could very well end up as the leading scorer in NBA history, top 5 in assists (the only non pg in the top 20), and top 20 in rebounding.

Add in the likely MVPs, rings, finals appearances, DPOY awards, and whatever else he will accumulate by the end of his career and he will probably have a strong case.

At 29, Jordan had 3 rings,3 MVPs, and had been to the finals 3 times. He didn't win his 4th ring and 4th MVP until he was 32.

At 29, Lebron has 2 rings, 4 MVPs, and has been to the finals 5 times. By 32 I don't know what he will do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he adds to the totals above.

People spend so much time hating on the guy that they lose perspective. The dude is neck and neck with Jordan at the same age. Lebron isn't quitting to play baseball either.
2/5

[kamil]

I don't agree.

At the end of the day, he could very well end up as the leading scorer in NBA history, top 5 in assists (the only non pg in the top 20), and top 20 in rebounding.

Add in the likely MVPs, rings, finals appearances, DPOY awards, and whatever else he will accumulate by the end of his career and he will probably have a strong case.

At 29, Jordan had 3 rings,3 MVPs, and had been to the finals 3 times. He didn't win his 4th ring and 4th MVP until he was 32.

At 29, Lebron has 2 rings, 4 MVPs, and has been to the finals 5 times. By 32 I don't know what he will do, but I wouldn't be surprised if he adds to the totals above.

People spend so much time hating on the guy that they lose perspective. The dude is neck and neck with Jordan at the same age. Lebron isn't quitting to play baseball either.

You should be counting after the number of seasons they played, NOT by their age.

#agenda

[Ill Will]

it's awful how infatuated the media (and a good part of ISH) is with Lebron. prior to these finals, nobody brought up anything about mere final appearances- it was all about where lebron at this point in his career comparative to other greats. now, people act as if making the finals 4 years in a row in one of the most stacked teams in a history makes up for the fact that the team who was supposed to form a dynasty should be undefeated in finals. the world's lowering it's standards as lebron lowers his.

[longtime lurker]

In any other situation with any other player, 2/5 in the finals would be amazing. But this isnt like any other situation, and this isnt just any player. This is a player who jumped ship from his home town team and teamed up with 2 top 10 players in their primes, and Wade was even considered probably top 5. They colluded together with the sole purpose of winning championships. It is somewhat of a short coming to me because 3 elite stars (2 of them superstars) combined forces basically on their own to win chips.

This. He jumped ship to create the easiest path to a championship. Him and his teammates gloated about not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5 and to add to that he plays in a historically weak conference with the best supporting cast in the NBA. Sorry but we don't judge players on IF's we judge them on what they've actually done. 2/5 under the immense circumstances that he himself created doesn't hold up to the other greats he's trying to measure up against.

[i cant dunk]

insidehoops: where going to the finals and not winning < losing in any other round < not making playoffs. the logic