So how good can Kawhi Leonard become going forward?

[All Net]

He

[Milbuck]

Top 5 player in 4-5 years. 24/8/5/3/1 with GOAT caliber perimeter defense.

[Magic731]

Kawhi Leonard may very well have won finals mvp last season had it not been for one Ray Allen three. Everyone was singing his praises then and talking him up for the future, yet he went on to average something like 13/6. It's great that this dude stands up when it matters most but he's gotta become more consistent throughout the regular season especially as he grows into a bigger role when Duncan/Parker/Ginobili decide to hang them up.

[All Net]

Kawhi Leonard may very well have won finals mvp last season had it not been for one Ray Allen three. Everyone was singing his praises then and talking him up for the future, yet he went on to average something like 13/6. It's great that this dude stands up when it matters most but he's gotta become more consistent throughout the regular season especially as he grows into a bigger role when Duncan/Parker/Ginobili decide to hang them up.
I think Spurs depth had alot to do with those numbers. He didn

[The-Legend-24]

1/2 > 2/5

[Mr. Jabbar]

top 3 player in the league.

would be a dream to pair him with lillard

[Real14]

Better than lebron.

[masonanddixon]

4th best player on a championship/4th option.

His ceiling would be Andre Igudola level.

He's become extremely overrated here for having one good series (much like everyone does who guards/is guarded by Lebron).

[Adrenalynn]

If he stays in SA for years then he'll be in their BIG 3, if he leaves then he'll just be a rich man's Mickael Pietrus without POP.

[Milbuck]

4th best player on a championship/4th option.

:biggums: He just won a ****ing Finals MVP like 6 hours ago at 22 years old and now his ceiling is being a 4th option?

[Adrenalynn]

Better than lebron.

You're officially BANNED for excessive trolling.:coleman:

[SCdac]

He had a broken finger or something like that midseason, and it hurt his stats and momentum. But when he came back, the Spurs went on a 19 game win streak. Really, the defense from him and Duncan combined makes the Spurs lethal. The real test for Kawhi will be on Spurs teams without Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, which may or may not be around the corner.

[Cocaine80s]

switch him with PG on the pacers and we'll see how good he really is

[masonanddixon]

:biggums: He just won a ****ing Finals MVP like 6 hours ago at 22 years old and now his ceiling is being a 4th option?

Thats what he currently is--a 4th option---he's a system player. No shame in that. Put him on a team in which he is depended on a nightly basis to create his own shot and create for others and he will be exposed.

Thats why his ceiling is Andre Iguodola. Can hit open shots and play within a system but isn't a dynamic enough player on his own. You make it seem like it was an insult.

Spurs are basically a Big 3 surrounded by system players and Leonard is the best of those system guys. It's not like you can just put the dude on the floor with 4 bench players (not including Ginobli) and expect to win big games.

[Adam Silver]

Kawhi is a very deserving Finals MVP and has a bright future ahead of him.

[Real14]

You're officially BANNED for excessive trolling.:coleman:
Lebron iz overrated bruh that's Why he's 2/5 in tha finals:no: :lol leonard iz young and on his way to good career. Leonard bust lebronna's ass in tha finals too and you know it.:coleman:

[BlazerRed]

Could become Pippen 2.0. That's his ceiling.

[GimmeThat]

MAYBE Chris Bosh.

but I honestly don't know.

[Artillery]

His upside is Latrell Sprewell with elite defense.

[Adrenalynn]

Lebron iz overrated bruh that's Why he's 2/5 in tha finals:no: :lol leonard iz young and on his way to good career. Leonard bust lebronna's ass in tha finals too and you know it.:coleman:

Agree. Leonard sure does have a bright future but he's not better than Lebron. Hell he's not even an all-star, he's still not a 25 player today and are you sure he will lead the Spurs to a championship as the #1 option without their big 3. He's a system player and he does do a great job at it though because theirs no pressure to carry this team when you have the big 3. POP is the real MVP.

[All Net]

His upside is Latrell Sprewell with elite defense.
His upside is alot higher than Spree. Spree was never a guy who could be a top 10-15 player.

[Adrenalynn]

His upside is Latrell Sprewell with elite defense.

Still the only dude with braids in the league, I see the comparions :D

[veilside23]

I cant tell right now because he a great supporting cast... I will give my judgement once he is the face of the franchise.

[Real14]

His upside is alot higher than Spree. Spree was never a guy who could be a top 10-15 player.
Sprewell iz getting underrated here:facepalm

[Artillery]

His upside is alot higher than Spree. Spree was never a guy who could be a top 10-15 player.

If Spree was more efficient and played elite D, I think he could have been a top 20 player. I only mentioned Spree because Kawhi's scoring reminds me of the ways SPree used to score.

[Lonely_Sandberg]

Better than lebron.

http://grizzlybomb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tumblr_lzbce83or31qe0oboo1_400.gif

[NZStreetBaller]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb9aGovCJYY for some reason this reminded me of Dwade Lebron and Kawhi Leonard

[Kiddlovesnets]

You're officially BANNED for excessive trolling.:coleman:

Well for real14 the problem is not that he trolls, but that he does nothing but trolling. Even well-known trolls like MrJabbar and Euroleague at least have some value to ISH and some people actually like them, which is why they are allowed to stay. For real14 I cant say the same, this born-in-2000s kid really contributes absolutely no positive value to ISH.
:rolleyes:

[bingoa]

If Spree was more efficient and played elite D, I think he could have been a top 20 player. I only mentioned Spree because Kawhi's scoring reminds me of the ways SPree used to score.
FOH

Spree was a chucker headcase, don't insult kawhi:coleman:

[beastee]

I think he will be the 2nd best option on a championship team. Very similar to what Pippen was. Problem is that the Spurs in 2 years wont have a superstar in place to be his Batman. The Sprewell with better defense comparison is probably pretty accurate, albeit less coach choking. :eek:

[LosBulls]

Scottie Pippen.

[BoutPractice]

You could say Pippen, yes, but he has more potential as a scorer and less as a playmaker I would say.

[Derka]

I imagine this kind of player is what Danny Ainge wanted when he traded for Jeff Green.

[BoutPractice]

I imagine this kind of player is what Danny Ainge wanted when he traded for Jeff Green.
That is the real tragedy of trading for Jeff Green: what you actually get from the deal is Jeff Green.

[kaiteng]

Better judge if he plays with other coaches than Pop.

[hitmanyr2k]

You could say Pippen, yes, but he has more potential as a scorer and less as a playmaker I would say.

Right now he's really the closest thing to Pippen I've seen in years. He's Pippen-lite, already having a good offensive arsenal and great defensive fundamentals. As of now he can drive and finish with authority over anyone (gotta work with being able to finish layups with both hands though), shoot from anywhere on the floor, hit shots off the dribble, has a nice post game and can finish with the fadeaway or the jumphook (footwork still needs work). His playmaking is average but he makes good decisions with the ball in a pass-oriented offense. His ceiling is very high if he keeps putting in the work. Popovich says he has to pull the guy out of the gym so I see no reason why he won't get stronger and better in the coming years. With Ginobili and Duncan getting older I think Kawhi gets more touches next year and consistently becomes a borderline all-star player averaging 16-17ppg, 7-8 boards, 3-4 assists a game.

[Nikola_]

better scorer than pip, not really a playmaker, cant really see him guard centers and pfs, best perimeter defender in the league

[Real14]

Well for real14 the problem is not that he trolls, but that he does nothing but trolling. Even well-known trolls like MrJabbar and Euroleague at least have some value to ISH and some people actually like them, which is why they are allowed to stay. For real14 I cant say the same, this born-in-2000s kid really contributes absolutely no positive value to ISH.
:rolleyes:
this niguh iz so damn salty that he said my name twice:oldlol: :oldlol: and iz retarded enuff to think I was born In tha 2000s:biggums: :roll: get this "12-70" niguh outta here:oldlol:

[hitmanyr2k]

better scorer than pip, not really a playmaker, cant really see him guard centers and pfs, best perimeter defender in the league

Not yet but he can get there.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Great defender, I don't see him ever averaging more than something like 18/7 though. He had a great finals last year too and didn't 'break out' like people expected, only put up 12/6 during the regular season.

So basically a prime Igoudala is where I think he'll end up, maybe not quite the playmaker or ballhandler that Igoudala was but an even better defender. Growing up in Pop's system has helped him tremendously.

[DMAVS41]

It depends on his role

I'd say 20/9/3 in 38 minutes per game seems about what he's capable of right now given more offensive sets

His PER 36 minutes in the playoffs this year were 16/8/2

Give him 2 more minutes a game and an increased role and those bump up to something like the above

Dude is a perfect player to have on any team.

This is why I really hope Duncan doesn't retire. He can take it even easier next season and just let Leonard/Splitter play more minutes to pick up the slack.

Also, the Spurs have some cap space to make some moves as well. Have to think bringing back Mills/Diaw is a priority...not sure how much that is going to cost.

[K Xerxes]

It depends on his role

I'd say 20/9/3 in 38 minutes per game seems about what he's capable of right now given more offensive sets

His PER 36 minutes in the playoffs this year were 16/8/2

Give him 2 more minutes a game and an increased role and those bump up to something like the above

Dude is a perfect player to have on any team.

This is why I really hope Duncan doesn't retire. He can take it even easier next season and just let Leonard/Splitter play more minutes to pick up the slack.

Also, the Spurs have some cap space to make some moves as well. Have to think bringing back Mills/Diaw is a priority...not sure how much that is going to cost.

Honestly, he puts 20ppg and it'll be on poor efficiency. You can say he has a reduced role right now, but no team sets up defensive schemes for him. Put him as the first option and he struggles when teams key in on him and his 3 point shooting goes cold. He can't create his own shot well enough or post up at the moment to be a real offensive threat. Sort of like PG.

Too much expectation, I don't see it ending the way people expect.

[Cone]

this guy is getting a little too overrated now

he is a good player but relax on the franchise player talk. he hasnt proven anything yet, and his fmvp could have gone to any of his other teammates

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I would like to see him play like he does in the Finals for an entire season first.

Still seems like a good #2. I don't see franchise player or even #1 option.

[All Net]

I would like to see him play like he does in the Finals for an entire season first.

Still seems like a good #2. I don't see franchise player or even #1 option.
Depends how it is defined.. There are only two players currently who you could say could lead a team to a title.

Just hope pop let's him go more next season. Let him attack more and run more plays for him.

[navy]

He wasnt even a top 3 option. He put up good stats, but take him off the Spurs and he will struggle.

[SCdac]

that pull-up 3 from Kawhi to give the Spurs the first lead in Game 5.. that was amazing :bowdown:

You can actually see the confidence building in him... almost reminds me of arya in game of thrones... at 22 years old, he's not even in his prime, which is saying somthing.

Under the Spurs tutelage, he has potential to be great. With some traits similar to that of Pippen, Shawn Marion, Tayshaun Prince, Gerald Wallace, etc.

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/30/50/26/6456760/3/784x2048.jpg

[ihatetimthomas]

I do not envision him to ever be a legitimate #1 option. As everyone is saying, I see Pip in him. He doesnt seem to have that aggressive nature to do it year in year out. But next season will be a real test for him. He will get the ball more, more plays will be run for him and teams are taking notice of him. How will he respond when teams actually must prepare for him?

[Rocketswin2013]

Right now he's really the closest thing to Pippen I've seen in years. He's Pippen-lite, already having a good offensive arsenal and great defensive fundamentals. As of now he can drive and finish with authority over anyone (gotta work with being able to finish layups with both hands though), shoot from anywhere on the floor, hit shots off the dribble, has a nice post game and can finish with the fadeaway or the jumphook (footwork still needs work). His playmaking is average but he makes good decisions with the ball in a pass-oriented offense. His ceiling is very high if he keeps putting in the work. Popovich says he has to pull the guy out of the gym so I see no reason why he won't get stronger and better in the coming years. With Ginobili and Duncan getting older I think Kawhi gets more touches next year and consistently becomes a borderline all-star player averaging 16-17ppg, 7-8 boards, 3-4 assists a game.
LOL you're being generous as hell saying his playmaking is average. He really reminds me of the type of player that played a position in high school his body was too big or small for(to be considered traditional). In his case, a PF.


I think his ceiling is a more accomplished Shawn Marion. I don't ever see him scoring more than 20 PPG on 57%-type TS. While his handle is good, he really doesn't change directions well and isn't much of a passer so as his role gets bigger he might be predictable. This is barring any wild improvement with his passing. Still he's pretty huge for a player his age and he'll abuse smaller wings in the post. Hit jumpers off the dribble and catch and turn his defense into offense.

[navy]

His playmaking is non existant. His offense is subpar. Plays in the GOAT system though....


Hi rebounding and defense are elite.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Depends how it is defined.. There are only two players currently who you could say could lead a team to a title.

Just hope pop let's him go more next season. Let him attack more and run more plays for him.


What defined? Franchise player?

It's a player I would build my team around, knowing the ceiling for said squad is a championship. I mean build the entire team around. Not only a piece. Now you may need another allstar, or whatever, in the mix, but that guy is still the guy.

LeBron is obviously one. It's clear by now Durant is another. His team has to start winning, but I think Anthony Davis is going to prove to be one in the coming years. His combination of defense and offensive upside might be the best in the NBA behind LeBron. Those are the three. I think people use terms like "superstar" and "franchise player" too sparingly.

You can argue others like CP3, maybe Blake, Curry, Melo, Westbrook, or Love. I don't see it with any of those players. Melo is probably the closest.

#1 option? That's pretty clear cut and there's plenty of those in the NBA. Literally every player I just mentioned is a #1 option, imo. They can give you 20+ every night, usually with good efficiency, and you would no problem giving them the ball at any point in the game and telling them to takeover. They all have the ability to do so, and do it on a legitimate playoff team. (I know Love hasn't been to the playoffs, btw...)

I'm not too confident you could do that with Leonard right now. I think he's more in that Harden, George, Kyrie, area right now. Actually looking out because I still want to see him do it for more than 5 games. Those guys have played around the same level for seasons.

Basically, I see a glorified roleplayer. A damn good roleplayer. Sometimes the most important player on your team; a team that might be a championship contender. Not someone I would build my team around.

I don't like the Pippen comparison because Pippen was a point forward and that was an enormous part of his identity. There has to be a better comparison in that sense. But yeah, Pippen was a glorified roleplayer, imo, and there's nothing wrong with that. His offensive ability doesn't scream #1 to me and I don't see a potential franchise player. Since I know people are going to read roleplayer and make it out like I'm insulting him. There are hall of famers who were role players, or not superstars if you want it worded differently.

A good #2.

[Rocketswin2013]

What defined? Franchise player?

It's a player I would build my team around, knowing the ceiling for said squad is a championship. I mean build the entire team around. Not only a piece. Now you may need another allstar, or whatever, in the mix, but that guy is still the guy.

LeBron is obviously one. It's clear by now Durant is another. His team has to start winning, but I think Anthony Davis is going to prove to be one in the coming years. His combination of defense and offensive upside might be the best in the NBA behind LeBron. Those are the three. I think people use terms like "superstar" and "franchise player" too sparingly.

You can argue others like CP3, maybe Blake, Curry, Melo, Westbrook, or Love. I don't see it with any of those players. Melo is probably the closest.

#1 option? That's pretty clear cut and there's plenty of those in the NBA. Literally every player I just mentioned is a #1 option, imo. They can give you 20+ every night, usually with good efficiency, and you would no problem giving them the ball at any point in the game and telling them to takeover. They all have the ability to do so, and do it on a legitimate playoff team. (I know Love hasn't been to the playoffs, btw...)

I'm not too confident you could do that with Leonard right now. I think he's more in that Harden, George, Kyrie, area right now. Actually looking out because I still want to see him do it for more than 5 games. Those guys have played around the same level for seasons.

Basically, I see a glorified roleplayer. A damn good roleplayer. Sometimes the most important player on your team; a team that might be a championship contender. Not someone I would build my team around.

I don't like the Pippen comparison because Pippen was a point forward and that was an enormous part of his identity. There has to be a better comparison in that sense. But yeah, Pippen was a glorified roleplayer, imo, and there's nothing wrong with that. His offensive ability doesn't scream #1 to me and I don't see a potential franchise player. Since I know people are going to read roleplayer and make it out like I'm insulting him. There are hall of famers who were role players, or not superstars if you want it worded differently.

A good #2.
Curry, Harden and Griffin on different tiers.......Heh

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Curry, Harden and Griffin on different tiers.......Heh

It's negligible. There's LeBron and Durant. Then there's like a dozen players grouped about the same. It's like arguing who is the 8th best player all time and who is the 9th.

[Johnny Jones]

Kawhi Leonard may very well have won finals mvp last season had it not been for one Ray Allen three. Everyone was singing his praises then and talking him up for the future, yet he went on to average something like 13/6. It's great that this dude stands up when it matters most but he's gotta become more consistent throughout the regular season especially as he grows into a bigger role when Duncan/Parker/Ginobili decide to hang them up.
Thought the consensus final MVP if the Spurs won last year was either Green or Duncan.

[Just2McFly]

Top 5 player in 4-5 years. 24/8/5/3/1 with GOAT caliber perimeter defense.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[All Net]

What defined? Franchise player?

It's a player I would build my team around, knowing the ceiling for said squad is a championship. I mean build the entire team around. Not only a piece. Now you may need another allstar, or whatever, in the mix, but that guy is still the guy.

LeBron is obviously one. It's clear by now Durant is another. His team has to start winning, but I think Anthony Davis is going to prove to be one in the coming years. His combination of defense and offensive upside might be the best in the NBA behind LeBron. Those are the three. I think people use terms like "superstar" and "franchise player" too sparingly.

You can argue others like CP3, maybe Blake, Curry, Melo, Westbrook, or Love. I don't see it with any of those players. Melo is probably the closest.

#1 option? That's pretty clear cut and there's plenty of those in the NBA. Literally every player I just mentioned is a #1 option, imo. They can give you 20+ every night, usually with good efficiency, and you would no problem giving them the ball at any point in the game and telling them to takeover. They all have the ability to do so, and do it on a legitimate playoff team. (I know Love hasn't been to the playoffs, btw...)

I'm not too confident you could do that with Leonard right now. I think he's more in that Harden, George, Kyrie, area right now. Actually looking out because I still want to see him do it for more than 5 games. Those guys have played around the same level for seasons.

Basically, I see a glorified roleplayer. A damn good roleplayer. Sometimes the most important player on your team; a team that might be a championship contender. Not someone I would build my team around.

I don't like the Pippen comparison because Pippen was a point forward and that was an enormous part of his identity. There has to be a better comparison in that sense. But yeah, Pippen was a glorified roleplayer, imo, and there's nothing wrong with that. His offensive ability doesn't scream #1 to me and I don't see a potential franchise player. Since I know people are going to read roleplayer and make it out like I'm insulting him. There are hall of famers who were role players, or not superstars if you want it worded differently.

A good #2.

I think next year will see how good he can be. A good number two is a fair statement right now.

[hitmanyr2k]

that pull-up 3 from Kawhi to give the Spurs the first lead in Game 5.. that was amazing :bowdown:

You can actually see the confidence building in him... almost reminds me of arya in game of thrones... at 22 years old, he's not even in his prime, which is saying somthing.

Under the Spurs tutelage, he has potential to be great. With some traits similar to that of Pippen, Shawn Marion, Tayshaun Prince, Gerald Wallace, etc.


First thing I thought of when I saw that pull-up three was Scottie Pippen...

http://i.imgur.com/IecN0XI.gif

http://i.imgur.com/S38JDGe.gif

[SCdac]

^^ hell yesssss :rockon:

Case in point: when Kawhi plays like a #1 option or #2 option the past couple years, Spurs are virtually unstoppable.

[JellyBean]

[QUOTE=All Net]He

[Dro]

As much hype as folks was giving Paul George, Kawhi should be getting that hype. I hope that he does rise to the level of superstar and be that staple for the Spurs for 10-15 years. He could be really great. It is all about what fuels him. What is his desire. What motivates him. But he could be really great.
I agree with this......PG is a better offensive player because he has a better handle, larger array of shots, probably a better shooter, his offensive game is smoother overall...he's just inconsistent......On defense, they are the 2 best perimeter defenders in the game...

[Living Being]

I think he will be the 2nd best option on a championship team. Very similar to what Pippen was. Problem is that the Spurs in 2 years wont have a superstar in place to be his Batman. The Sprewell with better defense comparison is probably pretty accurate, albeit less coach choking. :eek:
Sprewell had flashes of elite defense. He was streaky on D like he was with shooting. He was very agile, energetic, and had fast hands. Maybe if his hands were 20" long like Leonard, he would've been better.

Kawhi is definitely a more capable defender, though, and he should still improve...scary.:eek:

[All Net]

As much hype as folks was giving Paul George, Kawhi should be getting that hype. I hope that he does rise to the level of superstar and be that staple for the Spurs for 10-15 years. He could be really great. It is all about what fuels him. What is his desire. What motivates him. But he could be really great.
I think they are both in the same ballpark to be honest. Kawhi just needs more plays run for him and I think Pop knows this and will do that next season. I think he knows he needs to let Kawhi loose as when Duncan and Manu retire they will need him to step up.

[navy]

Kawhi just needs more plays run for him
He has few offensive skills. Plays like what?

[All Net]

He has few offensive skills. Plays like what?

If that was the case he wouldn

[navy]

[QUOTE=All Net]If that was the case he wouldn

[julizaver]

His numbers were not going to be high - 17-8-4 at best. His had some values outside of the stat sheet.

[All Net]

He got hot from three, that's about it.

And Pop isnt going to run three point plays for him. Certainty not spot up two pointers.
He is far more than just a spot up shooter. He

[navy]

[QUOTE=All Net]He is far more than just a spot up shooter. He

[dc_chilling]

A slightly worse version of Paul George.

18/7/4 on 50% shooting.

[All Net]

Offensively? He can put the ball on the floor and post up. His driving and finishing is average at best. As is his post up game. Certainly not good enough to call the high pick and roll for him. I dont trust his play making at all either.

I think he is fine to be honest. People just expecting too much. :confusedshrug:

Depends on what you expect. As much as the Spurs system has helped him it has also stopped him from spreading his wings so to speak with freedom. He is certainly a good piece for them going to the future. So when the big 3 all do move on the Spurs least have a dependable option when that time comes. Depends how badly he wants to be great as well. Him being only 22 should give him enough time to keep developing different areas of his game.

[Paul George 24]

Offensively? He can put the ball on the floor and post up. His driving and finishing is average at best. As is his post up game. Certainly not good enough to call the high pick and roll for him. I dont trust his play making at all either.

I think he is fine to be honest. People just expecting too much. :confusedshrug:

u re defintely wrong :no:

[bagelred]

Similar to other top players...Lebron James, Chris Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Paul George.....Kawhi Leonard has a last name that could/should be his first name.

Based on that, I think he can become a superstar.

[Trollsmasher]

Can't be better than MJ - 1 of 2 in the Finals

[RoundMoundOfReb]

If he does end up becoming a superstar I wonder how badly people are gonna rag on him for missing that free throw last year.

[Jasper]

[QUOTE=All Net]He

[eppelp]

I'd say he'll be closest to Shawn Marion. Great defender with a somewhat limited but still effective offensive arsenal. Pippen was imo more of a point forward which Leonard is not.

[Paul George 24]

Lenard is a player that if he leaves a system , could be basically a role type player.

He needs to stay with the Spurs , to get his best value , and efficience(.)

too early to said

[MavsPoke]

You gotta love watching this kid get better and better.

But I'll reserve judgement on how great he can be until he isn't playing with 3 Hall of Famers.

[r0drig0lac]

it will be better than most here think (he clearly is not just a system player) has an elite defense and the most impressive is his work ethic and desire to improve, his roof is still unknown

[riseagainst]

he's already a better finals performer than lebron.

[blacknapalm]

Offensively? He can put the ball on the floor and post up. His driving and finishing is average at best. As is his post up game. Certainly not good enough to call the high pick and roll for him. I dont trust his play making at all either.

I think he is fine to be honest. People just expecting too much. :confusedshrug:

offensively, he's added so much to his game. his release point/arc are so much better. coming out of college, his jumper was basically broke. now he has a quick catch and shoot with good form/%'s and can also shoot off the dribble. hesitation or simple cross. he splashed severe J's right in lebron's eye and also drove it on him. average at driving? he shot over 60% this past season on shots at the rim.

oh and he rebounded it, took the ball across mid-court and stopped on a dime to nail a 3. that's a pretty sweet offensive skill set...not many forwards can do that consistently. he doesn't really excel at any one thing but he is definitely versatile.

no doubt do i think his FG%/efficiency would drop if he was forced to be the #1 option on a team but i also don't think he's only the byproduct of the spurs system.

is diaw a product of the system? spurs were just able to find mismatches and use his great passing. when he's on an iso-centric team, he's going to lose interest and get out of shape. as a 4th/5th option looking at a bigger goal? he's pure gold.

at his peak, i can see him at 23ppg, 6+ boards, 3 assists with elite defense. all-star and borderline superstar

[Bigsmoke]

20/6/3 at best.

I still think PG is better.

[Bigsmoke]

I'd say he'll be closest to Shawn Marion. Great defender with a somewhat limited but still effective offensive arsenal. Pippen was imo more of a point forward which Leonard is not.

That's what I was thinking. I dont think he is that good of a passer to be another pippen.

[FatComputerNerd]

If Spree was more efficient and played elite D, I think he could have been a top 20 player. I only mentioned Spree because Kawhi's scoring reminds me of the ways SPree used to score.

Spree' was actually a pretty good defender. Other than his monstrous dunks, his tenacious D was one of the main things he was known for!

One of the most underrated players ever due to his own self-destruction, the coach choking incident, and being a bit of a "thug".

Dude was super-talented though, on both ends. Pretty sure he was on the All-D team at least once, and was even on the all-NBA first team one year. (granted I think the year Jordan was on hiatus, but still...)

Spree' was also the last ASG starter from the Warriors (94 or 95) until Curry this year... That's 20 years!

[Paul George 24]

20/6/3 at best.

I still think PG is better.

paul george is overrated :no:
his offence skills is limit,6"10 tall but can't even post smaller guy in the post and lack of strength in the post,pathetic shot sellection s kobe

[HOoopCityJones]

Reminds me of an introverted Frobe.

He's just more braided. He'll take the League from Durant someday.

[hawksdogsbraves]

So last year Kawhi had a great finals, then went out and put up 13/6 this regular season.

This year he has another great finals, maybe he hits 15ppg this year finally :rockon:

[thefatmiral]

I think Marion with more offensive threat

[r0drig0lac]

23 pts
09 rbts
03 ast
02 block
03 steals

and we'll be laughing at the "role player, player system" bs that is being spoken to not give props to the boy, funny that richard jefferson could not do anything in this system

[gyu]

Shawn Marion type of player

[atljonesbro]

He'll be good but he's getting INCREDIBLY overrated on here. He's one of those "hipster players" people like to overrate like when people call Ginobli top 50 all time.

[Real14]

he's already a better finals performer than lebron.
:applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

He averaged 13/6 last year.

He has to get exponentially better to put up 18ppg, much less the 23ppg that some of you idiots think he's going to average.

He's a glorified 3 and D guy who had a good series. Nothing more, nothing less. Very good in Pop's system but he's no star.

[Paul George 24]

He averaged 13/6 last year.

He has to get exponentially better to put up 18ppg, much less the 23ppg that some of you idiots think he's going to average.

He's a glorified 3 and D guy who had a good series. Nothing more, nothing less. Very good in Pop's system but he's no star.

he avg 15,11 in last year finals too :banana: nuff said

[Paul George 24]

He'll be good but he's getting INCREDIBLY overrated on here. He's one of those "hipster players" people like to overrate like when people call Ginobli top 50 all time.

he has proved he can plays in big game since he comes to nba :applause:

[Paul George 24]

Shawn Marion type of player

next pippen :applause:

[Real14]

he has shown he can plays in big game since he comes to nba :applause:
:oldlol:

[Paul George 24]

So last year Kawhi had a great finals, then went out and put up 13/6 this regular season.

This year he has another great finals, maybe he hits 15ppg this year finally :rockon:

what u expect when parker has the ball most of time :confusedshrug:

[hawksdogsbraves]

he avg 15,11 in last year finals too :banana: nuff said

Yeah, great, and then he turned around and averaged 13/6 in the next regular season.

You probably thought he'd break out and put up 20/8 last year, and you're going to be just as disappointed next year.

[Paul George 24]

Yeah, great, and then he turned around and averaged 13/6 in the next regular season.

You probably thought he'd break out and put up 20/8 last year, and you're going to be just as disappointed next year.

spurs system doesn't need him to avg 20,8 and not to mention when parker on the floor,parker he always idnore him most of the time,he rare pass the ball to even if he is wide open :rant

[Swaggin916]

I would say he could have a Reggie Miller like impact... A really solid player within an offense. :cheers:

[Paul George 24]

I would say he could have a Reggie Miller like impact... A really solid player within an offense. :cheers:
:wtf:

[Paul George 24]

And Leonard is defintely not only 3 & D,he can attack the rim,his mid range shot is money,can post up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyZnDK-L1xY

[Anaximandro1]

elite defender, good rebounder, decent offensive player. In terms of personality he is the new Duncan. Kawhi is a gym rat and quick learner. He just wants to be better ... with Kawhi, the franchise is in good hands :D



He's a glorified 3 and D guy who had a good series. Nothing more, nothing less. Very good in Pop's system but he's no star.

Pop's system


2007/08 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 23/4 for the Nets

2008/09 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 20/5 for the Bucks

2009/10 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 12/4 for the Spurs (9/5 playoffs)

2010/11 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 11/3 for the Spurs (6/4 playoffs)


talented players look significantly worse when they play for the Spurs: less minutes, less field goal attempts, less ppg, ast, etc ... basically they're underutilized for the good of the Spurs.


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2306417/KawhiBehindTheBackSlam.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2743639/Kawhi_stop-spins-LeBron.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Kawhi_Leonard-1.gif

http://i.minus.com/iwzLKSkZDLSyE.gif

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3772187/kawhic2c.gif

http://dailynewsglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/kawhi.gif

[BlkMambaGOAT]

elite defender, good rebounder, decent offensive player. In terms of personality he is the new Duncan. Kawhi is a gym rat and quick learner. He just wants to be better ... with Kawhi, the franchise is in good hands :D




Pop's system


2007/08 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 23/4 for the Nets

2008/09 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 20/5 for the Bucks

2009/10 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 12/4 for the Spurs (9/5 playoffs)

2010/11 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 11/3 for the Spurs (6/4 playoffs)


talented players look significantly worse when they play for the Spurs: less minutes, less field goal attempts, less ppg, ast, etc ... basically they're underutilized for the good of the Spurs.


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2306417/KawhiBehindTheBackSlam.gif

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2743639/Kawhi_stop-spins-LeBron.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Kawhi_Leonard-1.gif

http://i.minus.com/iwzLKSkZDLSyE.gif

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3772187/kawhic2c.gif

http://dailynewsglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/kawhi.gif
Kawhi's on pace to be the next Julius Erving with better cast and jumpshooting.:applause:

He already surpassed Bran, I'm excited to see what he becomes.:applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

elite defender, good rebounder, decent offensive player. In terms of personality he is the new Duncan. Kawhi is a gym rat and quick learner. He just wants to be better ... with Kawhi, the franchise is in good hands :D




Pop's system


2007/08 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 23/4 for the Nets

2008/09 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 20/5 for the Bucks

2009/10 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 12/4 for the Spurs (9/5 playoffs)

2010/11 -> Richard Jefferson averaged 11/3 for the Spurs (6/4 playoffs)


talented players look significantly worse when they play for the Spurs: less minutes, less field goal attempts, less ppg, ast, etc ... basically they're underutilized for the good of the Spurs.




Look, I love the Spurs system, the Hawks run the Spurs system and I hope we find a Kawhi Leonard in the draft.

But who cares about Richard Jefferson, dude fell off a cliff and was nothing but a chucker to begin with. He's a horrible example here. The only difference between him in San Antonio and in Jersey/Milwaukee is that he took less shots and played less minutes. He's been equally bad in Golden State and Utah after leaving SA.

Leonard is an elite defender, decent rebounder for a wing, and pretty good shooter. His ability to get to the rim and create his own shot is average at best.

The only things he's really good at is shooting THREE's and playing DEFENSE. 3 and D.

You posted those Jefferson stats, yeah, they were bad. Here are Kawhi's.

11/12 - 8ppg/5rpg
12/13 - 12ppg/6rpg
13/14 - 13ppg/6rpg

Bu... bu... but he's only 22! Yeah, so is Kyrie Irving putting up 20/6. Anthony Davis is putting up 20/10/3 down in New Orleans at 21. Those are stars.

Leonard is a good player, one who has found himself in the perfect situation where he's thrived, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's something he's not. If he were on basically any other team putting up 13/6 he'd be considered the next Marvin Williams or something.

[Dr.J4ever]

4th best player on a championship/4th option.

His ceiling would be Andre Igudola level.

He's become extremely overrated here for having one good series (much like everyone does who guards/is guarded by Lebron).
This is ridiculous. I watched Iggy for years. Kawhi is a much better scorer and shooter already. A better rebounder too. Not close.

[r0drig0lac]

ibaka already been posterized by kawhi so often it is not even funny

[Paul George 24]

Look, I love the Spurs system, the Hawks run the Spurs system and I hope we find a Kawhi Leonard in the draft.

But who cares about Richard Jefferson, dude fell off a cliff and was nothing but a chucker to begin with. He's a horrible example here. The only difference between him in San Antonio and in Jersey/Milwaukee is that he took less shots and played less minutes. He's been equally bad in Golden State and Utah after leaving SA.

Leonard is an elite defender, decent rebounder for a wing, and pretty good shooter. His ability to get to the rim and create his own shot is average at best.

The only things he's really good at is shooting THREE's and playing DEFENSE. 3 and D.

You posted those Jefferson stats, yeah, they were bad. Here are Kawhi's.

11/12 - 8ppg/5rpg
12/13 - 12ppg/6rpg
13/14 - 13ppg/6rpg

Bu... bu... but he's only 22! Yeah, so is Kyrie Irving putting up 20/6. Anthony Davis is putting up 20/10/3 down in New Orleans at 21. Those are stars.

Leonard is a good player, one who has found himself in the perfect situation where he's thrived, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's something he's not. If he were on basically any other team putting up 13/6 he'd be considered the next Marvin Williams or something.

Parker is basically a system player,he will not be a star if he plays for other team :wtf:

tell me any other role players can step up in Big game when team can't hit shots,put his team on his back,playing great on both ends :confusedshrug:

[TheBigVeto]

Sprewell iz getting underrated here:facepalm

Nope. Spree has always been overrated.

[Paul George 24]

Great player come up big in Big Game :applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

Parker is basically a system player,he will not be a star if he plays for other team :wtf:

tell me any other role players can step up in Big game when team can't hit shots,put his team on his back,playing great on both ends :confusedshrug:

Robert Horry? :confusedshrug:

Bruce Bowen?

And besides, there was NEVER a time in this series when the Spurs couldn't hit shots lol

[Posterized]

Leonard is an elite defender, decent rebounder for a wing, and pretty good shooter. His ability to get to the rim and create his own shot is average at best.

The only things he's really good at is shooting THREE's and playing DEFENSE. 3 and D.

Only 20% of his made field goals are three pointers. Bowen was a 3 and D guy, so is Danny green, Kawhi isn't. He can create his own shot he just isn't asked to very much, really no spur is because Pop emphasizes ball movement and getting the best shot for the team. But he's shown he can score in the post,especially when cross matched against a smaller defender as well as being able to shoot over defenders because of his length.




Bu... bu... but he's only 22! Yeah, so is Kyrie Irving putting up 20/6. Anthony Davis is putting up 20/10/3 down in New Orleans at 21. Those are stars.

.They're also playing more than 29 minutes a game on bad teams where they basically have the green light to shoot whenever they want.

[Paul George 24]

Robert Horry? :confusedshrug:

Bruce Bowen?

And besides, there was NEVER a time in this series when the Spurs couldn't hit shots lol

no,they hvn''t the same impact as leronard on the floor :no:

[Paul George 24]

http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20140618144441.gif
http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20140618144515.gif
http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20140618144926.gif
http://www.morningprint.com/updata/user_img/nanna20140618145105.gif

[Meticode]

My honest opinion is that he'll never be a go-to offensive player. His mainstay will be his defensive ability with that large wingspan and those huge hands. I'll personally be surprised if he ever averages over 20 points per game in a season. I see his max at somewhere between 17-19.

17-19 PPG
50%+ FG%
10 RPG
2 SPG
1+ BPG

[rmt]

Look, I love the Spurs system, the Hawks run the Spurs system and I hope we find a Kawhi Leonard in the draft.

But who cares about Richard Jefferson, dude fell off a cliff and was nothing but a chucker to begin with. He's a horrible example here. The only difference between him in San Antonio and in Jersey/Milwaukee is that he took less shots and played less minutes. He's been equally bad in Golden State and Utah after leaving SA.

Leonard is an elite defender, decent rebounder for a wing, and pretty good shooter. His ability to get to the rim and create his own shot is average at best.

The only things he's really good at is shooting THREE's and playing DEFENSE. 3 and D.

You posted those Jefferson stats, yeah, they were bad. Here are Kawhi's.

11/12 - 8ppg/5rpg
12/13 - 12ppg/6rpg
13/14 - 13ppg/6rpg

Bu... bu... but he's only 22! Yeah, so is Kyrie Irving putting up 20/6. Anthony Davis is putting up 20/10/3 down in New Orleans at 21. Those are stars.

Leonard is a good player, one who has found himself in the perfect situation where he's thrived, but don't fool yourself into thinking he's something he's not. If he were on basically any other team putting up 13/6 he'd be considered the next Marvin Williams or something.

He's just come off 3 twenty point games and excellent defense on the best player on the planet. If it were that easy, anybody could do it and he did it on the biggest stage of the game. He also had an excellent Finals last year so it's not a fluke. i don't know what Leonard's ceiling is but it sure is nice to have someone who can fill up the statline in big moments. he's gaining lots of valuable experience - 2 trips to the Finals and 1 to the WCF.

[Dr.J4ever]

My honest opinion is that he'll never be a go-to offensive player. His mainstay will be his defensive ability with that large wingspan and those huge hands. I'll personally be surprised if he ever averages over 20 points per game in a season. I see his max at somewhere between 17-19.

17-19 PPG
50%+ FG%
10 RPG
2 SPG
1+ BPG

I agree a little bit. He's a system guy. He might become the best player in a good system. He reminds me a bit of a bigger Scottie Pippen. Don't you think?

[Paul George 24]

My honest opinion is that he'll never be a go-to offensive player. His mainstay will be his defensive ability with that large wingspan and those huge hands. I'll personally be surprised if he ever averages over 20 points per game in a season. I see his max at somewhere between 17-19.

17-19 PPG
50%+ FG%
10 RPG
2 SPG
1+ BPG


no.......he'll something like 22ppg,+9 rebs,5 asts,2 stls,1 blks in his prime :rockon:

[blacknapalm]

he has all the tools to be a 20+ ppg scorer. he splashed multiple face up J's in bron's eye. he drove on him and he also took contact from bigger guys, either drawing the foul or the and 1. catch and shoot, face up, pull up, simple cross and jumper, hesitation dribble.

he's getting more and more comfortable with the ball in his hands and i think that's the next evolutionary step you'll see in his game. he's not going to overdribble and crossover you to death. you won't see flash to his game so some of it might not stick out. he's going to be efficient though. i think his post game can take another step forward within the next couple seasons as well.

pop doesn't really run plays for him. aside from that out of bounds play and a couple iso plays, it's pretty much strictly kawhi in the flow of the offense.

as he gains confidence, he's going to become even better blitzing the ball handler and reading passes. his long arms in the passing lanes and his ability to close out without fouling are going to be key.

some of you are losing context projecting his rebounding though. best SF rebounder this past season? carmelo at 8.1. even lebron's best rebounding season was at 8.0. kawhi will fall anywhere between 6-8.

so after thinking about it more...22 ppg, 7.5 boards, 4.5 assists, 2 steals, 1.2 blocks at his peak

[The_Yearning]

My honest opinion is that he'll never be a go-to offensive player. His mainstay will be his defensive ability with that large wingspan and those huge hands. I'll personally be surprised if he ever averages over 20 points per game in a season. I see his max at somewhere between 17-19.

17-19 PPG
50%+ FG%
10 RPG
2 SPG
1+ BPG

No.

Nobody averages those types of numbers.

[Paul George 24]

No.

Nobody averages those types of numbers.
grant hill maybe :applause:

[hawksdogsbraves]

He's just come off 3 twenty point games and excellent defense on the best player on the planet. If it were that easy, anybody could do it and he did it on the biggest stage of the game. He also had an excellent Finals last year so it's not a fluke. i don't know what Leonard's ceiling is but it sure is nice to have someone who can fill up the statline in big moments. he's gaining lots of valuable experience - 2 trips to the Finals and 1 to the WCF.

Yeah, great, he shot 60% in the finals to average that 17ppg. Good luck maintaining that for 82 games next year.

I see a max of something like 17/8/2apg/1.5spg/1bpg

And a great defender. He's a really good player and he is capable of having a stellar series as we've seen, but he's just not ever going to be a superstar.

[Paul George 24]

Yeah, great, he shot 60% in the finals to average that 17ppg. Good luck maintaining that for 82 games next year.

I see a max of something like 17/8/2apg/1.5spg/1bpg

And a great defender. He's a really good player and he is capable of having a stellar series as we've seen, but he's just not ever going to be a superstar.

who cares ??? great player step up big in big games,leonard has been proved it since his first year