Pop: Foreign players are fundementally harder workers

[Purch]

This year the Spurs feature several key foreign role players in Tiago Splitter (Brazil) and Boris Diaw (France). Add in Patty Mills (Australia), Aron Baynes (Australia), Cory Joseph (Canada) and Nando De Colo (France), and more than half of the players on San Antonio's roster were not born in the continental United States. The eight foreigners on the Spurs constitute the most in the NBA in a season when there were a record number of foreigners.

As you might have suspected, this is not a coincidence. In a brilliant and revealing ESPN The Magazine story by Seth Wickersham, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich says foreign players are "fundamentally harder working than most American kids."

This work ethic is a result of many factors, perhaps none more important than the development systems in foreign countries:

"...when Pop looks at American talent he sees many players who "have been coddled since eighth, ninth, 10th grade by various factions or groups of people. But the foreign kids don't live with that. So they don't feel entitled," he says, noting how many clubs work on fundamentals in two-a-day practices, each lasting up to three hours. "Now, you can't paint it with too wide of a brush, but in general, that's a fact."




http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201306/popovich-says-foreign-players-are-fundamentally-harder-working-most-americans


Remember he made this quote last season

[JellyBean]

I remember that comment. My follow up question would have been, if foreign players are fundamentally harder workers, what is Darko Milicic's excuse?

[fandarko]

I remember that comment. My follow up question would have been, if foreign players are fundamentally harder workers, what is Darko Milicic's excuse?

Basketball wise, Darko was an absolute beast at 18 years of age.

In any other Draft, he would have been a lock 1st pick.

His excuse is he's a moron.

A headcase to put it mildly.

You know what that 7-1, 280 pounds of muscle center, who works out like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKyWm7rbNBo

is doing with his life right now, at 29 years of age?

This:

http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/313401

[ZenMaster]

I remember that comment. My follow up question would have been, if foreign players are fundamentally harder workers, what is Darko Milicic's excuse?

So Popovich makes a broad statement and your follow up question would be one individual example? meh

[chocolatethunder]

I remember that comment. My follow up question would have been, if foreign players are fundamentally harder workers, what is Darko Milicic's excuse?
Maybe you missed the part where Pop said "you can't paint it with too wide a brush."

[fandarko]

I am from a former global basketball powershouse country in Eastern Europe.

Pop is right in many respects. Here we have an incredibly deep talent pool of kids for many sports. Basketball happens to be the top sport in the country, since football (though the most people play it) is in shambles.

Although it has been on the decline for years, at it's peak in the last two to three decades, the system used to produce many many very good young players.

But such a system is in many ways out of sync with the reality of daily life. Contrary to the US, there is no education system that supports top athletes, like the NCAA. The majority of universities don't even have their own gyms, let alone an arena.

The top two teams in the country (both Euroleague participants) don't even have their training facilities (they practice in the arena they play the games in, which is owned by the city and they are constantly in delay with payments).

Kids are taught fundamentals, yes and they do train twice a day (the top teams) from the age of 14-15.

But since the opportunities to play after they turn 18-19 are limited (no functional developmental league, the first professional division is a joke in terms of salaries), the top ones try to get a scholarship in the US or play in some minor leagues for peanuts.

Others leave to developmental teams in Western Europe and Turkey at a very young age (13, 14, 15, 16), where they move with their families.

I think that 90% of the available talent pool from the ages ends up wasted.

A pity.

As for the fundamentals side, the game at high school level (in Europe kids play for clubs, not their schools) is physically a tad under the US level (the top schools in the US), but tactically and fundamentals wise above.

However, it's not always good, because we have 7 million people and you can't expect 15-17 year old kids toi be tactically savy. And yet this is what is expected from them. The US style is far more carefree, more transition, less half court offense, ultimately I think that too much attention to tactics stunts the game of the majority of kids here.

That is why my country, that has given to the world many top class players (and NBA players) has failed to produce a single superstar the last 15 years. All the comes out from our system are occasionally stretch 4's and a wing here or there. No guards. No point guards.

You need time and space to develop guards. And good coaches, mentors, etc.

It doesn't exist here, too much pressure, too much professionalism.

If you can't make it at 19-22, you're considered "old".

I could write a book on this topic.

Pop is right, but as he said you can't paint with too wide of a brush, it differs from country to country...

[TheMilkyBarKid]

So Pop thinks nikkas are lazy?

(sarcasm)

[JellyBean]

So Popovich makes a broad statement and your follow up question would be one individual example? meh

I guess you never heard of sarcasm. Oh well.

[JellyBean]

Maybe you missed the part where Pop said "you can't paint it with too wide a brush."

I knew what he was saying. I read the quote in full context in 2013.

[ZenMaster]

I guess you never heard of sarcasm. Oh well.

Never thought I'd see the day an American would make that statement about me, a guy from Minny even considering I've lived there lol.

Don't want to be a dick, but that was a bad attempt at sarcasm.

[Harison]

I have to agree with Pop. Also its not just sports, other areas are similar. Lets take education, American kids arent learning anywhere near as hard as lets say Asian kids do. Now we hear how smarter Asians are, but its not genetics, its education system and culture.

[Roundball_Rock]

This year the Spurs feature several key foreign role players in Tiago Splitter (Brazil) and Boris Diaw (France). Add in Patty Mills (Australia), Aron Baynes (Australia), Cory Joseph (Canada) and Nando De Colo (France), and more than half of the players on San Antonio's roster were not born in the continental United States.

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.

[B-hoop]

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.

So Euroleague >> NBA?

Damn, Jordan was lucky there weren't a lot of Euros in the 90's

[GimmeThat]

Jordan Hulls, played for Indiana University, currently plays professional in the Polish Basketball League.

The simple reality is that you have to have the raw athletic ability to even RUN up and down the court and keep up with the opposing players before skills are even mentioned.

Foreign players DEVOTE a lot more time to be fundementally sounded before they make it into the league.

Which, by golly, lets hope that no one has taught them the WRONG fundementals, because once that's happened, trying to adjust that at the professional level becomes much much tougher.


No one wants to travel overseas without wanting to become a true professional (yes, I know that there ARE exceptions) The subject as to plenty of players who'd be able to play in the NBA yet choose to play in Euro League is probably a decent amount has been overtly discussed.

Pop enjoys utilizing his system to diminish personality, and magnify skills. If that means "more" foreign players excel under this system, or American players become "foreigners" because they played under this system.


You might as well say players who don't pick their teammates are fundementally harder workers.

[DMV2]

Kinda the same way in the work force. :lol

[BballFan422]

I have to agree with Pop. Also its not just sports, other areas are similar. Lets take education, American kids arent learning anywhere near as hard as lets say Asian kids do. Now we hear how smarter Asians are, but its not genetics, its education system and culture.

True. We live in a culture that values entertainment over education. Then we wonder why so many young people are more interested in sports, music and acting. Go figure.

[DMV2]

True. We live in a culture that values entertainment over education. Then we wonder why so many young people are more interested in sports, music and acting. Go figure.
In the cardiac department of the hospital I work for, of the 50 or so M.D.'s, about 30-35 of them are Indians or Middle Easterners.

It's hilarious seeing people with really bad broken English accents "bossing" all the native or well-spoken English-speakers around. I use "bossing" because they're not really bossing us around, they're very respectful and great doctors but it's funny how they're at the top of the chain compared to the rest of the workers who are mostly white.

[sportjames23]

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.


So you're saying this era > 90's, right? That's what you're trying to say, right?

You still a salty bitch, claiming to be a Bulls fan, but crapping on the best player in Bulls and NBA history.

[Oly BC]

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.
I wonder if this Spurs win, them playing the most beautiful basketball ever and the fmvp going to a "roleplayer" with 17ppg will change the NBA paradigm.


More likely it won't.

[kkb_12]

If you look at countries of origin for players that Pop had, you will notice that no Spurs player comes from old basketball "powerhouses" of Russia, Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia... Pop gets hard working kids from systems where they were not spoiled by star treatment and makes them basketball players...

[Oly BC]

If you look at countries of origin for players that Pop had, you will notice that no Spurs player comes from old basketball "powerhouses" of Russia, Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia... Pop gets hard working kids from systems where they were not spoiled by start treatment and makes them basketball players...
Argentina is an "old basketball powerhouse" at this point and Ginobili was a player before Pop. Bellinelli is Italian. Splitter also played in Europe and I don't think the spurs would reject marc gasol if they had a chance to get him with the same money


Also, if someone gets star treatment in Serbia, it's the coach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12LtzBxhqqY

[fandarko]

If you look at countries of origin for players that Pop had, you will notice that no Spurs player comes from old basketball "powerhouses" of Russia, Serbia, Lithuania, Spain, Italy, Greece, Croatia... Pop gets hard working kids from systems where they were not spoiled by star treatment and makes them basketball players...

That is a good observation (though Belineli is from Italy and Splitter has played the Spanish league for ages)... But I don't think it's on purpose, or planned... France has had an incredible development of their basketball in the last 15 years and ironically, the players they have/had in the Spurs are not known for their athleticism (Parker, De Colo, Diaw). The others are just handpicked for their skills and not their nationality. Splitter was excellent in Europe, but far from a star. Mills is the profile of player that doesn't make in the Euroleague (different style), but Pop found him a niche. I'm sure there are other guys in the European league he would have adjusted well to the Spurs' style. For example, when healthy, Nenad Krstic would be perfect for their system, as a smart 7-footer that can bang inside and shoot the 15 footer. But they can't pay him. Ante Tomic, the Croatian 7-2 center would be effective too, but him too is too expensive (cap issues). Hell, a bunch of smart players would blend in well with the Spurs and on the mid term, they're probably considering their options including Europe...

[Oly BC]

If you exclude Duncan, Parker, Manu and Splitter everyone else gets at most 3 million euros gross. Even though playing for the spurs would be a great incentive by itself, it would be hard to get a serbian or spanish player of calibre with 1,5 million dollars gross income. It makes sense that he's looking to France which despite producing good players has no competitive teams and even Australia.

[kkb_12]

If you exclude Duncan, Parker, Manu and Splitter everyone else gets at most 3 million euros gross. Even though playing for the spurs would be a great incentive by itself, it would be hard to get a serbian or spanish player of calibre with 1,5 million dollars gross income. It makes sense that he's looking to France which despite producing good players has no competitive teams and even Australia.

So it means that all Serbian players with exception of Krstic and Teodosic are in this group.
Good points about Argentinians and French - yes they are powerhouses now... But they were not at a time they started coming to NBA... The most important thing is order of things: one has to become basketball player before becoming star, and not the other way around.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Spurs are essentially a pre 2000 NBA team. Know how young kids on these boards act like there was some huge evolutionary advancement in people and athleticism in just 15 to 20 years? On average teams are more athletic today.

But Pop is indicating here the loss of skilled, niche role players who work hard. Not everyone is meant to be a superstar at every level. Thus pre 2000s having skilled, college experienced, intelligent players in roles. Or white boys. They enhance what superstars bring to the table. They're gritty hard working coachable pieces. No ego.

That's why I love guys like Kirk Hinrich, it's becoming more difficult to find American players such as this.

These AAU programs stunt some of our defined basketball skills in favor of athleticism. Role players who work hard, aren't entitled douches, skilled, intelligent and know their role amplify a teams strength giving it more dimension then a bunch of guys who all play the same way from the AAU factory.

Kind of the reason Team USA was getting beat in 2002, 2004, and 2006. Even though we obviously had superior individual talent. 2014 Spurs were a poor man's late 90s Jazz team. They were old, slow, unathletic but smart, skilled, moved the ball well coached and beat a team of younger more athletic players.

[played0ut]

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.

.... Are you serious? You seem smart, but how is your reading comprehension so bad? You're obviously implying the 90's.



Pop said foreign kids are less likely to be coddled and entitled and american kids. All the coddled and entitled draft kids came after Jordan's era.



Your point isn't even relevant here.




























































And the irony in that Lebron, who was hailed the king and signed for enormous endorsements at just over the age of tween. The ****ing irony.

[Meticode]

All that more reason for the Spurs to try to add Pau Gasol. :lol

Duncan/Splitter
Diaw/Gasol
Leonard/Belinelli
Green/Ginobili
Parker/Mills

Their whole bench rotation would be foreign players...Brazil, Spain, Italy, Argentina, Australia...

[Purch]

That would be the best passing front court in league history

[SamuraiSWISH]

It is interesting all of LeBron's Finals losses have come against teams with a strong foreign influence, an influence that would not exist in previous eras.
Yea it's interesting he's lost to two teams, with a stacked superstar / athletic roster to teams not athletic, with good big men, and niche role players. Gasp like a perfectly well rounded 90s basketball team.

Greatest era of basketball for it's near perfect mix of offensive skills, ball movement, big men, team intelligence, physical defense, superstars, and the right amount of athleticism. The 2014 Spurs are the '98 Jazz.

:applause:

[houston]

Man that dude tanked to get Tim Duncan that is all. Actually the second 3 peat bulls started the foreign player thing. Kukoc and Longley etc...

[Oly BC]

So it means that all Serbian players with exception of Krstic and Teodosic are in this group.
Good points about Argentinians and French - yes they are powerhouses now... But they were not at a time they started coming to NBA... The most important thing is order of things: one has to become basketball player before becoming star, and not the other way around.
Serbia is generally quite weak at the moment but even Bogdan would probably command more if he leaves Partizan this summer.

[Roundball_Rock]

playedout, I was just making a general comment, not commenting on what Pop said.

[Dro]

I pretty much agree with him...Not sure why anybody is surprised.....Players over here have their butts kissed from the time someone realized they could potentially play ball....