Where was LeBron's Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Phil Jackson?

[mehyaM24]

:confusedshrug:

forget his dennis rodman and phil jackson. where was his pippen? the guy rotating quickly on defense, helping out everyone, taking playmaking duties?

lets not forget, jordan was 5-15 in the playoffs without pippen and that in 1994, pippen led the bulls to 55 games without jordan.

perspective is key ISH

[Young X]

2/5

[mehyaM24]

2/5

is that jordan's w/l ratio without pippen?

[Roundball_Rock]

is that jordan's w/l ratio without pippen?

No. MJ almost got to 0.500 without Pippen but finished 178-190 overall as a player.

[ArbitraryWater]

is that jordan's w/l ratio without pippen?


I think thats 1/9

[mehyaM24]

No. MJ almost got to 0.500 without Pippen but finished 178-190 overall as a player.

close enough. i hope lebron gets a carmelo or signs with a team half as stacked as the 90s bulls.

all jordan fans can do is ringcount. context is lost with these idiots

[Straight_Ballin]

is that jordan's w/l ratio without pippen?

Jordan made Pippen, and it's universally accepted as majority opinion.

Who the fvck did Bron make? Not Larry Hughes. Not Mo Williams.

Funny thing is that if Jordan was on the Heat, Wade would be Pippenesque because who better than Jordan to understand the role of the SG. Wade would be 5x better under Jordan's wing.

[jzek]

2 of the Big 3 are earning 36 million.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan made Pippen

:roll: Pippen was a top 5 pick despite coming from a small school. Pippen rose from team manager to the college team's star practically overnight. There is no Pippen-like story in basketball history, a testament to his work ethic. As a pro, he became an all-star in his 3rd season and by his 2nd season his starting numbers (he started about 3/4 of the season) mirrored his 90' all-star numbers. He peaked around ages 28-30 and began to decline thereafter as age and injuries, particularly a 98' Finals back injury, took its toll. In other words, Pippen had a classical career trajectory.

Pippen and Phil Jackson made MJ into a winner. :rockon:

[mehyaM24]

Jordan made Pippen, and it's universally accepted as majority opinion.

Who the fvck did Bron make? Not Larry Hughes. Not Mo Williams.

Funny thing is that if Jordan was on the Heat, Wade would be Pippenesque because who better than Jordan to understand the role of the SG. Wade would be 5x better under Jordan's wing.

if jordan made pippen then why was he 1-9 playoffs without him (80s) and 5-15 without him for his career?

lebron on the other hand carried larry hughes and mo williams to the finals, not the other way around (never made the finals without lebron either).

[Calabis]

Where was Lebron's Jordan, I think thats what you meant.

[mehyaM24]

Where was Lebron's Jordan, I think thats what you meant.

31/10/5 > jordan's career playoff averages

[Roundball_Rock]

if jordan made pippen then why was he 1-9 playoffs without him (80s) and 5-15 without him for his career?

1-9 is the figure. MJ missed the playoffs in his final two seasons in Washington. :bowdown:

[GODbe]

Pippen made Jordan and imho was a better player. Just didn't play for stats like Jordan which is why the stat nerds will say otherwise.

[Straight_Ballin]

if jordan made pippen then why was he 1-9 playoffs without him (80s) and 5-15 without him for his career?

lebron on the other hand carried larry hughes and mo williams to the finals, not the other way around (never made the finals without lebron either).

If you actually watched basketball in the 90's, you would know the behind the scenes story of how Jordan basically devoted his life to making himself and Pippen better at his house. He would have Pippen practice with him for hours on end, molding him into a dominant force. And this was BEFORE actual practice even started. You need to understand that Pippen was a talent before he met Jordan, but Jordan made Pippen OBSESSED with the sport of basketball. Literally to the point where it was borderline sickness. Read Phil Jackson's book.

There's zero debate that Jordan made Pippen into what he became. A star into a superstar.

Who the hell is Bron working out with for 3 hours before practice everyday?

No one.

That's why he's 2/5 and Jordan and Pippen are 6/6.

[kamil]

:confusedshrug:

forget his dennis rodman and phil jackson. where was his pippen? the guy rotating quickly on defense, helping out everyone, taking playmaking duties?

lets not forget, jordan was 5-15 in the playoffs without pippen and that in 1994, pippen led the bulls to 55 games without jordan.

perspective is key ISH

Awww... damage control from a butthurt LeBron* stan.

Cute.

[Rose'sACL]

Awww... damage control from a butthurt LeBron* stan.

Cute.
he is not a lebron stan. he is just anti-jordan like you are anti-lebron. He is biased against jordan just like you are biased against lebron for no good reason.
You should be the last person calling him out. He pretty much has the same personality as you. He just hates another player.

[Calabis]

31/10/5 > jordan's career playoff averages

4-1 lost series....17 first quarter points, 14 the rest of the way....4pts a quarter
19 3rd quarter points. ..9 points other quarters 3pts a quarter

Dude was absent large portions of the game.....funny how the game would change when LeBron would take a more assertive role in scoring.

Also his man was finals MVP and in last three games matched him :roll:

[DonDadda59]

Where was Lebron's Jordan, I think thats what you meant.

This.

Bron in the '14 finals: 18.2 FGA

Pippen in the '91 finals: 17.2 FGA

Pippen in the '93 finals: 20.5 FGA

Bron was playing like a hell of a second option. Just needed that alpha dog to put him over the top.

Could Melo be that first option? :confusedshrug:

[kamil]

he is not a lebron stan. he is just anti-jordan like you are anti-lebron. He is biased against jordan just like you are biased against lebron for no good reason.
You should be the last person calling him out. He pretty much has the same personality as you. He just hates another player.

LOL, :facepalm

[sportjames23]

Where was Lebron's Jordan, I think thats what you meant.


OH SNAP! :oldlol:

[Straight_Ballin]

he is not a lebron stan. he is just anti-jordan like you are anti-lebron. He is biased against jordan just like you are biased against lebron for no good reason.
You should be the last person calling him out. He pretty much has the same personality as you. He just hates another player.

So basically he's melting down because he never got to witness greatness first hand so he's hating on it?

How can you hate on 6/6 with 6 FMVP and go against the logic of 95% of the world's opinion on Jordan. :lol

Lebron hate is justified. He's 2/5!! :lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

31/10/5 > jordan's career playoff averages

Jordan's career playoff averages through age 30: 35/7/7/2+/1+. So no, they're basically equal.

[hitmanyr2k]

if jordan made pippen then why was he 1-9 playoffs without him (80s) and 5-15 without him for his career?

lebron on the other hand carried larry hughes and mo williams to the finals, not the other way around (never made the finals without lebron either).

Mo Williams wasn't on the Cavs team that made the 2007 Finals.

And even then Lebron in 2007 got plenty of help from his team's defense, rebounding, three point shooting and playing in a terrible Eastern Conference (much like this year).

And while Lebron fans love to bring up Game 5 of the 2007 ECF against the Pistons they never mention Daniel Gibson's HUGE Game 6 closeout that clinched their trip to the Finals. 31 points in that game. More importantly, the game went into the 4th quarter tied and Gibson scored 19 in the 4th to bust it open. He went "Patty Mills" on Detroit.

[Straight_Ballin]

Mo Williams wasn't on the Cavs team that made the 2007 Finals.

And even then Lebron in 2007 got plenty of help from his team's defense, rebounding, three point shooting and playing in a terrible Eastern Conference (much like this year).

And while Lebron fans love to bring up Game 5 of the 2007 ECF against the Pistons they never mention Daniel Gibson's HUGE Game 6 closeout that clinched their trip to the Finals. 31 points in that game. More importantly, the game went into the 4th quarter tied and Gibson scored 19 in the 4th to bust it open. He went "Patty Mills" on Detroit.

I remember that, but lebald stan's like to discredit it because it makes their fraud even a lesser man. I mean, you have to be a real asshole to your teammates to make one of them resort to having sexual relations with your mother.....

I wonder what Bran said to West to make him do that.

[mehyaM24]

4-1 lost series....17 first quarter points, 14 the rest of the way....4pts a quarter
19 3rd quarter points. ..9 points other quarters 3pts a quarter

Dude was absent large portions of the game.....funny how the game would change when LeBron would take a more assertive role in scoring.

Also his man was finals MVP and in last three games matched him :roll:

31 points is 31 points, idiot.

where was his help? what did wade and bosh average? is spo the coach phil is?

here's an undeniable fact that resonates: jordan is 1-9 in the 80s playoffs without pippen and 5-15 for his career. LOL

[mehyaM24]

he is not a lebron stan. he is just anti-jordan like you are anti-lebron. He is biased against jordan just like you are biased against lebron for no good reason.
You should be the last person calling him out. He pretty much has the same personality as you. He just hates another player.

i dont hate jordan. hes got a legit case for GOAT. what i cant stand are his mythologist fans who act like he's a god.

jordan with this heat team? they dont do anything different. its still a 5 game beatdown.

[Goldrush25]

Jordan made Pippen, and it's universally accepted as majority opinion.


No, no it's not.:oldlol:

[kenuffff]

:confusedshrug:

forget his dennis rodman and phil jackson. where was his pippen? the guy rotating quickly on defense, helping out everyone, taking playmaking duties?

lets not forget, jordan was 5-15 in the playoffs without pippen and that in 1994, pippen led the bulls to 55 games without jordan.

perspective is key ISH

where was his top 50 all time , HOF small forward..well i don't know.. maybe the miami heat didn't go back in time and draft him.. where was his larry bird?!?!?!?! .. this makes no sense.

[Beastmode88]

You ask where was his Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Phil Jackson but the real question was where was lebron's michael jordan's type game. He did not show up in the 3rd or 4th. :lol :lol

[mehyaM24]

You ask where was his Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, Phil Jackson but the real question was where was lebron's michael jordan's type game. He did not show up in the 3rd or 4th. :lol :lol

lebron shot a higher shooting percentage than jordan ever has in the finals. had more production than jordan did for half of his championships.

so theres that

[Straight_Ballin]

No, no it's not.:oldlol:

Huh? Even Skip's dumb ass knows the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3MwhJpx4Xk&feature=c4-overview&list=UUIIKPy27YWW5yhc0qvr4KnA

[Calabis]

31 points is 31 points, idiot.

where was his help? what did wade and bosh average? is spo the coach phil is?

here's an undeniable fact that resonates: jordan is 1-9 in the 80s playoffs without pippen and 5-15 for his career. LOL

No 31 isn't 31 impact moron. He came out and asserted himself offensively...guess what his team was winning.....second quarter he decides to become passive....someone please tell me was it second or third where he basically did nothin the entire quarter...he hit his first basket with like 20 something seconds left then a free throw with less than 10.....4 pts a quarter the rest of the isn't shit for impact in the finals...especially from the supposed GOAT.

[TheMan]

This.

Bron in the '14 finals: 18.2 FGA

Pippen in the '91 finals: 17.2 FGA

Pippen in the '93 finals: 20.5 FGA

Bron was playing like a hell of a second option. Just needed that alpha dog to put him over the top.

Could Melo be that first option? :confusedshrug:
ROFL

Wouldn't be surprised if Bran is seeking Durant too...

[kenuffff]

Jordan made Pippen, and it's universally accepted as majority opinion.

Who the fvck did Bron make? Not Larry Hughes. Not Mo Williams.

Funny thing is that if Jordan was on the Heat, Wade would be Pippenesque because who better than Jordan to understand the role of the SG. Wade would be 5x better under Jordan's wing.

no that's actually not universally accepted... he made him? did jordan go into his basketball lab and make a small forward with long ass arms that had an extremely high basketball IQ? i didn't know jordan advanced the field of human cloning while playing shooting guard. you should read some of phil jackson's books or tex winters about the bulls. so scottie was actually the leader in the locker-room all the other players looked up to him but feared jordan, pippin is the person that actually made other players better not jordan. pippin made jordan's job a lot easier defensively because he would take the toughest assignments and allow jordan to roam a little bit free on defense. he allowed people to basically make mistakes defensively because he could cover for you. scottie pippin could guard any position on the floor, had a much better understanding of the triangle than any player tex winter ever coached that's per tex winter and phil jackson and there is a reason he was one of the first names out of jordan's mouth in the HOF induction. to your second point about wade, i'm pretty sure jordan and wade wouldn't be playing on the same team as they play the same position, and im pretty sure jordan doesn't have time traveling abilities to go back and make wade young again nor does lebron.

[Dengness9]

2/5


NO EXCUSES


Heat bandwagon was confident before the series and after game 2.

Just take that ass whooping and keep it moving.

Remember 93' when Jordan avg 41 because he had to against the Suns?

Bron knows nothing about Goat shit like that.

6/6. 6 FMVP's. Not a myth people. It happened.

Op is a clown and Roundball cries at night because he can't accept MJ's goatness. Pull your Bulls card fakkit. I'm done with you.

[Calabis]

lebron shot a higher shooting percentage than jordan ever has in the finals. had munfortunatelyion than jordan did for half of his championships.

so theres that

Im sure if jordan decided to shut it down after a hot start or a hot quarter he could have....but unfortunately he liked winning in the finals.

As much as I use to clown on Kobe at least dude gave it his all without the fear of failing or worrying about % stats. He comes out like Lebron did last night...hes shooting til his arm falls off....also they are not letting their man get MVP

[Roundball_Rock]

Remember 93' when Jordan avg 41 because he had to against the Suns?

Yes, arguably the GOAT Finals performance (before Jordan stans send the hounds, I consider MJ to be the GOAT Finals performer). Remember Pippen also averaging 21/9/8 in that series, though? Wade and Bosh were non-factors in this Finals.

[mehyaM24]

No 31 isn't 31 impact moron. He came out and asserted himself offensively...guess what his team was winning.....second quarter he decides to become passive....someone please tell me was it second or third where he basically did nothin the entire quarter...he hit his first basket with like 20 something seconds left then a free throw with less than 10.....4 pts a quarter the rest of the isn't shit for impact in the finals...especially from the supposed GOAT.

LMAO at this low iq piece of shit

you start extrapolating and nitpicking 31 points in an nba finals game, then do so with every all-time great. dumb.

lebron got his (had a 20 point quarter in game 4 and the heat were still down by double digits) while the rest of his teammates were horrible.

this isnt 1-9 jordan without pippen. this is lebron with the ghosts of wade and bosh.

[PsychoBe]

this guy has zero context :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dengness9]

Mehya......

Name MJ's teammates before Pippen, that were better than Bosh and Wade?


I'll wait.

[mehyaM24]

Im sure if jordan decided to shut it down after a hot start or a hot quarter he could have....but unfortunately he liked winning in the finals.

As much as I use to clown on Kobe at least dude gave it his all without the fear of failing or worrying about % stats. He comes out like Lebron did last night...hes shooting til his arm falls off....also they are not letting their man get MVP

WOAT poster

yeah, jordan sure shot until his arm fell of in a pivotal game 5 vs the pistons. up until then, the game of his life, he attempts just 8 shots...:roll:

[jayfan]

:roll: Pippen was a top 5 pick despite coming from a small school. Pippen rose from team manager to the college team's star practically overnight. There is no Pippen-like story in basketball history, a testament to his work ethic. As a pro, he became an all-star in his 3rd season and by his 2nd season his starting numbers (he started about 3/4 of the season) mirrored his 90' all-star numbers. He peaked around ages 28-30 and began to decline thereafter as age and injuries, particularly a 98' Finals back injury, took its toll. In other words, Pippen had a classical career trajectory.

Pippen and Phil Jackson made MJ into a winner. :rockon:

Pippen = GOAT punk.

[Dengness9]

After "witnessing" how hard it is to 3 peat, only a bitch like you would discredit Mj after he did it twice.


More appreciation should be given to MJ after the way these finals went.


But you don't know shit about the game so it is what it is.

[Straight_Ballin]

no that's actually not universally accepted... he made him? did jordan go into his basketball lab and make a small forward with long ass arms that had an extremely high basketball IQ? i didn't know jordan advanced the field of human cloning while playing shooting guard. you should read some of phil jackson's books or tex winters about the bulls. so scottie was actually the leader in the locker-room all the other players looked up to him but feared jordan, pippin is the person that actually made other players better not jordan. pippin made jordan's job a lot easier defensively because he would take the toughest assignments and allow jordan to roam a little bit free on defense. he allowed people to basically make mistakes defensively because he could cover for you. scottie pippin could guard any position on the floor, had a much better understanding of the triangle than any player tex winter ever coached that's per tex winter and phil jackson and there is a reason he was one of the first names out of jordan's mouth in the HOF induction. to your second point about wade, i'm pretty sure jordan and wade wouldn't be playing on the same team as they play the same position, and im pretty sure jordan doesn't have time traveling abilities to go back and make wade young again nor does lebron.

Go back and watch the games. All you ever saw was Jordan talking to Scottie, and Scottie nodding. Jordan was clearly the alpha, and Scottie's mentor when Jackson was not around.

He did make him into the player that he became. He use to have Scottie and Ron harper come to his house and make them practice with him for hours on end before the actual practice, and it was EVERY morning. Sounds like you need to re-read the books you quoted. Yes Pippen had hi IQ and good build, but Jordan took him to the next level. Let's not get it twisted and try to rewrite history.

[mehyaM24]

After "witnessing" how hard it is to 3 peat, only a bitch like you would discredit Mj after he did it twice.


More appreciation should be given to MJ after the way these finals went.


But you don't know shit about the game so it is what it is.

:oldlol: at this dumb ape

"Crazed Bulls fan" hahahaha

[Dengness9]

Watching people try to act like playing with Michael Jordan doesn't make you a vastly better player is hilarous.

And those same idiots will run tell you how much better Lebron makes his teammates because he's the best player in the world.....


They don't realize the words coming out of their mouths also comes outta their asses.

Which one is it?

[Dengness9]

:oldlol: at this dumb ape

"Crazed Bulls fan" hahahaha


You aren't really laughing, we can all see that.

MJ's the GOAT......


Take a deep breath and LET. IT. GO.

Bandwagons are made to jump on and off. The bandwagon just pulled up to your newspaper bed in the alleyway. Get out now and rest. But don't sleep too much. MJ will fill your dreams and nightmares.

Nice ape comment too. You probably say that to a lot of black ppl don't you?

[Roundball_Rock]

Watching people try to act like playing with Michael Jordan doesn't make you a vastly better player is hilarous.

What people disagree with is MJ mythologists claiming he "made" a HOF'er from scratch. Of course teammates help teammates (Pippen universally was the most popular Bull among his teammates. I wonder why?)--just like co-workers in general do (especially more experienced people with younger co-workers)--and coaches help players (notice how MJ fans never mention Collins taking extra time to work with young Pippen and Grant). MJ stans take that and make it into an act of god...Pippen also helped MJ. Tex Winter said MJ needed Pippen more than vice versa. Pippen led the Bulls every year in assists starting from 1991--you know, when the Bulls began winning. That is no coincidence...

MJ has had, what, 1 winning season in D.C. and Charlotte? Why can't he "make" HOF'ers there? :lol

[Straight_Ballin]

:oldlol: at this dumb ape

"Crazed Bulls fan" hahahaha

^
Just another kid that never got to witness Jordan play and is salty as fvck about it. :lol

https://i.imgflip.com/9m0yi.jpg

[mehyaM24]

Yes, arguably the GOAT Finals performance (before Jordan stans send the hounds, I consider MJ to be the GOAT Finals performer). Remember Pippen also averaging 21/9/8 in that series, though? Wade and Bosh were non-factors in this Finals.


jordan sure shot until his arm fell of in a pivotal game 5 vs the pistons. up until then, the game of his life, he attempts just 8 shots

^still waiting for jordan jockers to address this. they love throwing around narratives ASSUMING people dont know their GODs history. :oldlol:

if people want to crack jokes about lebron not being able to do so and so, then why not apply the same logic with their guy :confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

LMAO at this low iq piece of shit

you start extrapolating and nitpicking 31 points in an nba finals game, then do so with every all-time great. dumb.

lebron got his (had a 20 point quarter in game 4 and the heat were still down by double digits) while the rest of his teammates were horrible.

this isnt 1-9 jordan without pippen. this is lebron with the ghosts of wade and bosh.

U claim someone has a low iq yet ur dumbass just keeps showing how dumb u really are. Uhh Lebron 19 3rd quarter points....what did he do in the first half? Maybe u can let that soak in a bit and then say to urself...oh maybe thats why they were down by 20....dude had 9 points the other three quarters:roll:

Dude looks at that stat line without context..he had 28 though in game 4, blah blah blah

[AceManIII]

Didn't Bran pick his teammates/coach? :oldlol:

[veilside23]

I don't understand why people say that without pippen Jordan wont win... we all know Jordan had a hard time beating the pistons but its a fact as well that they might have someone else if not pippen right .. Its like drafting what is needed if it pans out well and good if it doesn't then go back to the draft again . Its like when ind traded for George hill simply because they have paul George already and if they didn't do that do you seriously think that Stephen, George and leonard can play within a team?

You have got to be seriously trolling if you think Pip gave Jordan his rings. They didn't decided to play with each other unlike what wade LeBron and bosh did..

So for heat fans just accept that spurs is the better team this year and move on ..

the fact is Jordan has never lost an nba and he always elevates his game overall not just focusing on FG% ...

and even though rodman is a hall of famer .. you are a troll if you think that a rodman led team would reach the playoffs like what bosh did when he was in the raptors.

[atljonesbro]

^
Just another kid that never got to witness Jordan play and is salty as fvck about it. :lol

https://i.imgflip.com/9m0yi.jpg
I feel like you're just salty Jordan will never play again and Bron will be back next year. This is all you have left to latch on to, hating on other players. That's what happens when you're a fan of players rather than teams.

[Calabis]

^still waiting for jordan jockers to address this. they love throwing around narratives ASSUMING people dont know their GODs history. :oldlol:

if propane want to crack jokes about lebron not being able to do so and so, then why not apply the same logic with their guy :confusedshrug:

Go ask Collins why he didn't shOot. ...if u were old enough he wanted Jordan to get other guys involved instead of going 1 on 3...Pippen was wet behind the ears...he wasnt a NBA finals MVP like Wade already.

Also when Wade avg 26/7/5 a game against Mavs what did LeBron do? Get swept and outplayed by his sidekick.

Jordan outplayed Pip in 91' do u see the difference yet

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade avg 26/7/5 a game against Mavs

I see your point but for the record Pippen averaged 21/9/7 against the Lakers and provided crucial defense against Magic (Wade never defended Dirk). He wasn't just along for the ride, even in 91'.

[97 bulls]

I don't understand why people say that without pippen Jordan wont win... we all know Jordan had a hard time beating the pistons but its a fact as well that they might have someone else if not pippen right .. Its like drafting what is needed if it pans out well and good if it doesn't then go back to the draft again . Its like when ind traded for George hill simply because they have paul George already and if they didn't do that do you seriously think that Stephen, George and leonard can play within a team?

You have got to be seriously trolling if you think Pip gave Jordan his rings. They didn't decided to play with each other unlike what wade LeBron and bosh did..

So for heat fans just accept that spurs is the better team this year and move on ..

the fact is Jordan has never lost an nba and he always elevates his game overall not just focusing on FG% ...

and even though rodman is a hall of famer .. you are a troll if you think that a rodman led team would reach the playoffs like what bosh did when he was in the raptors.
Rodman was clearly the best player on the Pistons in 92 and they made the playoffs. He led them in minutes, fg%, offensive and defensive rebounds, was third in 3pt %, was their best defender made the All-Star team, and finished top 10 in MVP voting.

[TheMan]

What people disagree with is MJ mythologists claiming he "made" a HOF'er from scratch. Of course teammates help teammates (Pippen universally was the most popular Bull among his teammates. I wonder why?)--just like co-workers in general do (especially more experienced people with younger co-workers)--and coaches help players (notice how MJ fans never mention Collins taking extra time to work with young Pippen and Grant). MJ stans take that and make it into an act of god...Pippen also helped MJ. Tex Winter said MJ needed Pippen more than vice versa. Pippen led the Bulls every year in assists starting from 1991--you know, when the Bulls began winning. That is no coincidence...

MJ has had, what, 1 winning season in D.C. and Charlotte? Why can't he "make" HOF'ers there? :lol
So much bullshit in one post :facepalm

I know it's been a rough past few days, go lay down and take a break, kid.

[TheMan]

Rodman was clearly the best player on the Pistons in 92 and they made the playoffs. He led them in minutes, fg%, offensive and defensive rebounds, was third in 3pt %, was their best defender made the All-Star team, and finished top 10 in MVP voting.
:wtf:

[kenuffff]

So much bullshit in one post :facepalm

I know it's been a rough past few days, go lay down and take a break, kid.

actually what he said is pretty factual. not sure how you don't know all that being such a huge jordan fan. it's all in books, chuck daly said pippen was the best player on the dream team by far.

[Jlamb47]

2/5

[Soundwave]

"LeBron Ball" killed Bosh and Wade's game ... that just caught up to the Heat.

They don't play well together and were massively overrated defensively (because they only had to play in the weak ass East).

Bosh is a perfectly good no.2 option on his own, LeBron just can't run an offense where he isn't dribbling the ball himself for 10 seconds every possession and looking for spot up shooters.

Scottie Pippen had two wishy washy NBA Finals himself, both of which the Bulls won:

15.3 ppg on 34% shooting, albiet he added a solid 8 boards and 5 assists but hardly all world numbers in the 1996 NBA Finals.

Scottie Pippen in the 1998 NBA Finals:

15.7 ppg on 41% shooting, 6.8 boards, 4.8 assists.

Rodman was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the '96 Finals and Malone in '97 and '98 even though he did manage to bother Malone for certain stretches.

LeBron-Stans just grasping at straws now ... and none of that explains the Heat's epic collapse in 2011 ... this team just falls apart because they are not great at handling adversity when it comes their way.

[TheMan]

actually what he said is pretty factual. not sure how you don't know all that being such a huge jordan fan. it's all in books, chuck daly said pippen was the best player on the dream team by far.
The Dream Team =/= Chicago Bulls

Jordan was the Bulls best player, he was Batman, Pip was Robin. I don't need to read books, I watched those Bulls teams.

[kenuffff]

Go back and watch the games. All you ever saw was Jordan talking to Scottie, and Scottie nodding. Jordan was clearly the alpha, and Scottie's mentor when Jackson was not around.

He did make him into the player that he became. He use to have Scottie and Ron harper come to his house and make them practice with him for hours on end before the actual practice, and it was EVERY morning. Sounds like you need to re-read the books you quoted. Yes Pippen had hi IQ and good build, but Jordan took him to the next level. Let's not get it twisted and try to rewrite history.

why didn't ron harper become a HOF player..

[veilside23]

Rodman was clearly the best player on the Pistons in 92 and they made the playoffs. He led them in minutes, fg%, offensive and defensive rebounds, was third in 3pt %, was their best defender made the All-Star team, and finished top 10 in MVP voting.


to put that in numbers

8 pts
18reb
your 3pt conversion 32/101 .317
FG 310/534 .58%

so yes he played great but don't act like he also carried the offense.

[sportjames23]

actually what he said is pretty factual. not sure how you don't know all that being such a huge jordan fan. it's all in books, chuck daly said pippen was the best player on the dream team by far.

Uh, no Chuck didn't. Barkley was the best player on the Dream Team easily. And MJ and Pip really didn't play as hard as they could due to just having come from the Finals only a few weeks before.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Nonexistent. But so was LeBron doing heavier lifting to compensate for lack of production. He wasn't playing beyond his normal averages to legendary series ala Jordan in '91, '92, and '93. It wasn't just LeBrons fault. But his ability ia still there, meanwhile it's clear Wade's body has given up on him. That's a legit excuse. What's LeBron's?

[Roundball_Rock]

Scottie Pippen in the 1998 NBA Finals:

15.7 ppg on 41% shooting, 6.8 boards, 4.8 assists.


:oldlol: at MJ mythologists still pushing this myth. Pippen was dominant defensively in a way no other perimeter player has ever been in the Finals prior to his back giving out in Game 5. He was the main reason they took a 3-1 lead and MJ mythologists completely act like it did not happen. :roll: 96' is the only bad Finals he had--and what MJ fans never mention is he had an assortment of injuries by the end of that year (he also had several in 97'--he was a game-time decision for Game 1 of the 97' Finals--but still managed to produce).

Pippen's career Finals averages are 19/8/6/2/1, and this is with one game being included in which he was just a decoy.


it's all in books, chuck daly said pippen was the best player on the dream team by far.

To be fair, what he said was Pippen was the second best player on the team (behind MJ). MJ himself came back from the Olympics and gushed at how much better Pippen was than the other guards (you know, Stockton, Drexler, Magic)--and this was 26 year old Pippen, not peak Pippen. Yet MJ fans act as if he had nothing to do with the team's success. :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Go ask Collins why he didn't shOot. ...if u were old enough he wanted Jordan to get other guys involved instead of going 1 on 3...Pippen was wet behind the ears...he wasnt a NBA finals MVP like Wade already.

Also when Wade avg 26/7/5 a game against Mavs what did LeBron do? Get swept and outplayed by his sidekick.

Jordan outplayed Pip in 91' do u see the difference yet
The difference is Pippen didn't play bad. 22/9/7 while being the best defender in the playoffs is hardly something to scoff at. I remember a poster saying theres teams that would kill for those numbers from their best player much less their second.

[kenuffff]

The Dream Team =/= Chicago Bulls

Jordan was the Bulls best player, he was Batman, Pip was Robin. I don't need to read books, I watched those Bulls teams.

no one isn't saying jordan wasn't the best player. but he didn't make scottie pippen into a HOF player, if anything it was a mutual relationship. since you watched the games you probably know that scottie was amazing on defense and freed up jordan to get steals and take chances because he was so athletic he could recover problems on defense. scottie was certainly a better defender than jordan.

[nathanjizzle]

lebron is pippen. what you mean is "where was lebrons jordan?"

[Roundball_Rock]

The difference is Pippen didn't play bad. 22/9/7 while being the best defender in the playoffs is hardly something to scoff at. I remember a poster saying theres teams that would kill for those numbers from their best player much less their second.

Exactly...and that is with elite defense and leadership on top. Pippen's Finals numbers compare very well with many so-called "#1 options." The guy almost had a triple double average in three Finals (21/9/7, 21/8/8, 21/9/8)! :bowdown:


Uh, no Chuck didn't. Barkley was the best player on the Dream Team easily

No, according to Daly it was MJ, Pippen and then Barkley. Daly said all he needed to win was Pippen and MJ--the other 3 on the floor would not matter since Pippen and MJ were that dominant and versatile.

[Soundwave]

:oldlol: at MJ mythologists still pushing this myth. Pippen was dominant defensively in a way no other perimeter player has ever been in the Finals prior to his back giving out in Game 5. He was the main reason they took a 3-1 lead and MJ mythologists completely act like it did not happen. :roll: 96' is the only bad Finals he had--and what MJ fans never mention is he had an assortment of injuries by the end of that year (he also had several in 97'--he was a game-time decision for Game 1 of the 97' Finals--but still managed to produce).

Pippen's career Finals averages are 19/8/6/2/1, and this is with one game being included in which he was just a decoy.



To be fair, what he said was Pippen was the second best player on the team (behind MJ). MJ himself came back from the Olympics and gushed at how much better Pippen was than the other guards (you know, Stockton, Drexler, Magic)--and this was 26 year old Pippen, not peak Pippen. Yet MJ fans act as if he had nothing to do with the team's success. :oldlol:

You really need to read posts before throwing a hissy fit like a little girl finding out she's not getting cake.

I'm just pointing out Pippen didn't always have all-dominating NBA Finals, in fact in that entire 1996 NBA playoffs, the Bulls dominated with Scottie shooting 39% for the entire post-season. He never actually shot over 42% in any of the second threepeat actually.

The Bulls were a great *team*, and played together as such, with defence that lived up to the hype, not like the Heat who are overrated. Ditto for LeBron "getting his teammates involved". BS. He's destroyed Wade and Bosh's game, Jordan was always smart enough to know after 1991 that he needed to build his teammates up and was an underrated passer too. Very smart at knowing when to pass and give his teammates the ball in situations they were comfortable in.

[97 bulls]

:wtf:
Yep. Rodman Chose not to score. Im sure if he really wanted to, he could've avg 12-15 ppg. I remember hum saying in an interview that he didn't push the issue for his offense because it wasn't needed.

[Roundball_Rock]

I'm just pointing out Pippen didn't always have all-dominating NBA Finals,

And cited 1998...:facepalm He had 4 great Finals, 1 very good Finals and 1 bad one when he was suffering with many injuries.

Yeah, he did not shoot over 42% but he was banged up in each of those years. Besides, it is the playoffs. That tends to mean top defenses so pretty much everyone's FG % drops in the playoffs.


Rodman was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the '96 Finals and Malone in '97 and '98 even though he did manage to bother Malone for certain stretches.

:lol at diminishing Rodman's huge role in those series by comparing him to superior players, including the league MVP. Rodman did great work on the boards and defensively--he wasn't guarding Jeff Hornacek.

[97 bulls]

"LeBron Ball" killed Bosh and Wade's game ... that just caught up to the Heat.

They don't play well together and were massively overrated defensively (because they only had to play in the weak ass East).

Bosh is a perfectly good no.2 option on his own, LeBron just can't run an offense where he isn't dribbling the ball himself for 10 seconds every possession and looking for spot up shooters.

Scottie Pippen had two wishy washy NBA Finals himself, both of which the Bulls won:

15.3 ppg on 34% shooting, albiet he added a solid 8 boards and 5 assists but hardly all world numbers in the 1996 NBA Finals.

Scottie Pippen in the 1998 NBA Finals:

15.7 ppg on 41% shooting, 6.8 boards, 4.8 assists.

Rodman was outplayed by Shawn Kemp in the '96 Finals and Malone in '97 and '98 even though he did manage to bother Malone for certain stretches.

LeBron-Stans just grasping at straws now ... and none of that explains the Heat's epic collapse in 2011 ... this team just falls apart because they are not great at handling adversity when it comes their way.
Im sick of this. I have two questions for you.

Based on the consensus at the time. Meaning sports writers, newspapers articles, the Jazz coaches, was Pippen considered the front runner for MVP through four games?

Was he not hurt in games four and five?

[97 bulls]

Lets give credit to the Spurs. They were up on the Heat by 23-25 pts in almost every game. Im not sure that even prime Wade would get them over the top. A prime Wade is probably gonna give the Heat another ten pts. Thats still not enough. And his defense hasnt been much of anything since James and Bosh joined him in Miami.

[veilside23]

And cited 1998...:facepalm He had 4 great Finals, 1 very good Finals and 1 bad one when he was suffering with many injuries.

Yeah, he did not shoot over 42% but he was banged up in each of those years. Besides, it is the playoffs. That tends to mean top defenses so pretty much everyone's FG % drops in the playoffs.



:lol at diminishing Rodman's huge role in those series by comparing him to superior players, including the league MVP. Rodman did great work on the boards and defensively--he wasn't guarding Jeff Hornacek.


LeBron guarded kawhi leonard who became the finals mvp..

if you are serious about your post and think that Jordan didn't play excellent defense on everyone he guarded then you are a troll :)

[veilside23]

Lets give credit to the Spurs. They were up on the Heat by 23-25 pts in almost every game. Im not sure that even prime Wade would get them over the top. A prime Wade is probably gonna give the Heat another ten pts. Thats still not enough. And his defense hasnt been much of anything since James and Bosh joined him in Miami.


you know why people bash on LeBron because people claim here that he is the best that makes his team mates better.. sure he played great but greatness is not only by FG%

[TheMan]

Yep. Rodman Chose not to score. Im sure if he really wanted to, he could've avg 12-15 ppg. I remember hum saying in an interview that he didn't push the issue for his offense because it wasn't needed.
I knew Rodman could've been a.better scorer if he wanted, just surprised he took that many threes in Detroit and actually shot it at a decent clip. He hardly ever shot threes with the Bulls.

[Derka]

Oh. So now Lebron needs Rodman, Pippen and Phil Jackson to win titles, is it?

[Soundwave]

Im sick of this. I have two questions for you.

Based on the consensus at the time. Meaning sports writers, newspapers articles, the Jazz coaches, was Pippen considered the front runner for MVP through four games?

Was he not hurt in games four and five?

And did the Bulls win that series after Scottie got hurt?

Or did they go home crying to daddy when things got tough? No, Jordan just stepped his game up and made sure they were able to win the series.

Mental toughness and desire are part of basketball ... something that comes and goes with the Miami Heat apparently. They're perfectly able to get embarrassed by the likes of Jason Terry and Kwahi Leonard in the NBA Finals.

[Soundwave]

Oh. So now Lebron needs Rodman, Pippen and Phil Jackson to win titles, is it?

Errr ... wait no Jordan as well? C'mon man. That's pretty tough. I mean what happens if Kawahi Leonard shows up?

[veilside23]

Yep. Rodman Chose not to score. Im sure if he really wanted to, he could've avg 12-15 ppg. I remember hum saying in an interview that he didn't push the issue for his offense because it wasn't needed.


link?

[97 bulls]

link?
Oh god bro. That's gonna be hard. And truthfully, a waste of time. Jordan himself could scream what im saying in your ear and you still disagree.

[hiphopfan777]

here come the people saying lebron didn't have help. well guess what, when Pippen did absolutely nothing against the Pacers and Jazz in 98, Jordan still got the win and played well overall. when nobody did anything during Jordan's flu game and Pippen shooting less than 30%, he singlehandedly brought them back from 16 down to win the game and series. When nobody did anything in game 6 of 98, Jordan had the series winning steal and shot. no excuses. Jordan only had 2 teammates averaging double figures in 98 finals, and neither scratched 16 ppg. Did that stop him? Lebron is not top 10 all time. If Lebron played in the 80s-90s rules, they would make Lebron famous, then turn around and make him nameless because Lebron never understood how vital to them the basketball game is. The only part of lebrons game that would improve is his overrated defense, he couldn't even guard Paul Pierce in 08 or tony Parker in 2007 finals. Steph Curry lit up the Heat every time he played them. He never guarded anyone as good as when MJ shut down finals MVP Isiah Thomas and top 5 SG Clyde Drexler. Now back to the lecture at hand. Perfection is perfected so Im going to let you understand. NBA defense before defensive rule changes - 91 ppg (98-99). Today the league average is 101 ppg. 2013-14, the Bulls held opponents to a league BEST 92 points per game. In 97-98, 5 teams held their opponents to under 90 points per game. Are there still stupid people who are going to claim Jordan's era wasn't better defensively? Lebron has it a hundred times easier than MJ. Players/Coaches who have competed in the modern era and Jordan's era state that players and defense back then were better and more skilled - Gary Payton, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Kobe, Rodman, and even guys who only played in the modern era like Joe Johnson. Lebron gets shut down by the weak Mavs Zone - in MJs day they didn't even have defensive 3 seconds (introduced in 2001-02) when they played zone. And before people claim they didn't have zone back then - Nov 4, 1987, NY Times - Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of ZONE traps and DOUBLE and TRIPLE-teaming to win the scoring title (37.1 ppg). K Jordan VS Zone Isolation 1-1 Defense Meanwhile Lebron, despite having NO hand checking, NO physical play, and WITH defensive 3 seconds benefit, only got 7 almighty points vs the Pacers. Don't forget not 1, not 2, but 8 Pts against the soft and old Mavs. Don't forget entire series aveages of 35% vs 2007 Spurs and 35% vs 08 Celtics. Imagine if this was the bad boy pistons or gangster Knicks with the rules Jordan played. Lebron might end up with negative points. Lebron never averaged more than 7.4 apg in finals. MJ averaged 11.4 in 91. In 2014 finals, Lebron averaged less assists than Jordan in 5 out of 6 finals. Lebron - 2 of the worst finals performances in NBA history in the WEAKEST defensive era. Lebron has 3 losses in Finals. Jordan has 2 3peats and 0 losses in the HARDEST era. NO DISCUSSION. Stupid fans say - oh lebron is too athletic for 80-90s to handle. But yet even WITHOUT the harder defensive rules he gets locked down by old Mavs old celtics old spurs (2007, 2012-13), Kawhi Leonard, BORIS DIAW, and inconsistent pacers. Mad Max, Rodman, Dumars, Payton, Cooper, Mcdaniel, Rivers, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, G Wilkins, Anthony Mason and more would MURDER that overrated BUM if the played back then. Not to mention he would get challenged by Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, David Robinson, Alonzo, Mutombo, Parish, Kareem every time at the rim instead of bums like Hibbert. IRREFUTABLE INCONTESTABLE INDISPUTABLE UNDENIABLE INCONTROVERTIBLE UNQUESTIONABLE UNDISPUTED FLAWLESS nonsubjective FACT that lebron is not top 10 all time. I challenge anyone to prove lebron is top 10. But I know that is impossible so no chance of response. Anyone who thinks Lebron is top 10 without several more rings is a blind sheep that follows the herd, nothing more.

[Roundball_Rock]

No, Jordan just stepped his game up and made sure they were able to win the series.

That basically is true regarding Game 6. :bowdown: In Game 5 MJ shot 35% (9 for 26). It was Kukoc who had the big game but the Jazz managed to eke out a win and force a Game 6.


when Pippen did absolutely nothing against the Pacers and Jazz in 98

:lol at MJ stans pushing this myth non-stop. Most of these young MJ stans obviously did not even watch those series.

What MJ fans love to ignore is instances when other players stepped up. They'll pick a game here and there to diminish others but there were games where MJ struggled (i.e. 17% in Game 3 of the 93' ECF--although he did contribute on the glass and in assists--but so did Pippen in Game 5 of 98' but MJ fans ignore that 11/11) when the team picked him up (Pippen had 29 points on 83% in Game 3 in 93'--CHI trailed 0-2).

[veilside23]

Oh god bro. That's gonna be hard. And truthfully, a waste of time. Jordan himself could scream what im saying in your ear and you still disagree.


did I disagree.. I know its not needed but Jordan took care of that...

[veilside23]

That basically is true regarding Game 6. :bowdown: In Game 5 MJ shot 35% (9 for 26). It was Kukoc who had the big game but the Jazz managed to eke out a win and force a Game 6.


basketball is team game... when LeBron was in foul trouble vs the pacers he only had 8 points.. MJ may have under performed but he didn't drag them down. when LeBron is not on the floor dwade actually seems to be in control ... when mj is not on the floor they struggle to score kukoc is effective because they tend to focus on mj .

[Soundwave]

That basically is true regarding Game 6. :bowdown: In Game 5 MJ shot 35% (9 for 26). It was Kukoc who had the big game but the Jazz managed to eke out a win and force a Game 6.



:lol at MJ stans pushing this myth non-stop. Most of these young MJ stans obviously did not even watch those series.

What MJ fans love to ignore is instances when other players stepped up. They'll pick a game here and there to diminish others but there were games where MJ struggled (i.e. 17% in Game 3 of the 93' ECF--although he did contribute on the glass and in assists--but so did Pippen in Game 5 of 98' but MJ fans ignore that 11/11) when the team picked him up (Pippen had 29 points on 83% in Game 3 in 93'--CHI trailed 0-2).

Lets be honest, MJ really did not have very many "bad" playoff games period from 91 onwards. It's a pretty small handful considering how many playoff games they played in.

And if he did he almost always came back the next game with a better performance.

He is pretty much the definition of playoff consistency. Dude pretty much manned up and delivered every time the Bulls really needed him to, the only time he didn't was in '95 when his timing was off.

That was the one time he really could've used someone else to carry him a bit.

[KyleKong]

No. MJ almost got to 0.500 without Pippen but finished 178-190 overall as a player.

Lol, almost.

[Roundball_Rock]

That was the one time he really could've used someone else to carry him a bit.

I know you in the past have blamed Pip for that but Pippen averaged 19/10/7/3 that series. They had no help on the inside and had too much to do and were gassed by the end of games. That is where Rodman was key the next year.

Comparing MJ to anyone else in the mental aspect of the game is unfair. MJ had a legendary focus (Malone was blown away by MJ and Pip's focus while playing with them on the Dream Team) and amazing will to win. Back when he first entered the league teams flew commercial so the players would play Pac Man while waiting for their flights. MJ kept losing (I think to Sellers) and bought a Pac Man machine so he could practice at home. Needless to say, he proceeded to turn the tables at the game. A similar story happened in 92' in Barcelona. MJ kept losing in ping pong and ordered one of his minions to get him a ping pong table to practice. That kind of obsession with winning is a key ingredient in his success. Some call it unhealthy but I disagree. I similarly had an obsession with winning back when I was on campaigns.


Lets be honest, MJ really did not have very many "bad" playoff games period from 91 onwards. It's a pretty small handful considering how many playoff games they played in.

Yes, but the same can be said about others whose bad games get cherry picked, although it is true MJ had an unusually low number of bad playoff games. The fact is no major Bull was a Karl Malone or David Robinson-type consistent underperformer in the playoffs. The closest thing to that is Rodman's rebounding dipping in those years. Pippen's career playoff numbers are better than his regular season numbers and he consistently raised his scoring and rebounding in the playoffs (he actually led the team in rebounding in the playoffs several times in the 90's despite being a SF) throughout his career.

[97 bulls]

And did the Bulls win that series after Scottie got hurt?

Or did they go home crying to daddy when things got tough? No, Jordan just stepped his game up and made sure they were able to win the series.

Mental toughness and desire are part of basketball ... something that comes and goes with the Miami Heat apparently. They're perfectly able to get embarrassed by the likes of Jason Terry and Kwahi Leonard in the NBA Finals.
Jordan carried the Bulls in game six. But that doesn't mean Pippen had a bad series. Thats all im saying. Granted he wasnt scoring 25ppg through the first four games, but his impact through his defense and rebounding etc was tantamount to a player scoring 30 ppg.

Thats just the greatness of the Bulls. Both Jordan and Pippen didnt exactly set the world on fire in 96, But Rodman and Longley (yes Longley) really picked up the slack.

[Nevaeh]

here come the people saying lebron didn't have help. well guess what, when Pippen did absolutely nothing against the Pacers and Jazz in 98, Jordan still got the win and played well overall. when nobody did anything during Jordan's flu game and Pippen shooting less than 30%, he singlehandedly brought them back from 16 down to win the game and series.

When nobody did anything in game 6 of 98, Jordan had the series winning steal and shot. no excuses. Jordan only had 2 teammates averaging double figures in 98 finals, and neither scratched 16 ppg. Did that stop him? Lebron is not top 10 all time.

If Lebron played in the 80s-90s rules, they would make Lebron famous, then turn around and make him nameless because Lebron never understood how vital to them the basketball game is. The only part of lebrons game that would improve is his overrated defense, he couldn't even guard Paul Pierce in 08 or tony Parker in 2007 finals.

Steph Curry lit up the Heat every time he played them. He never guarded anyone as good as when MJ shut down finals MVP Isiah Thomas and top 5 SG Clyde Drexler. Now back to the lecture at hand. Perfection is perfected so Im going to let you understand. NBA defense before defensive rule changes - 91 ppg (98-99).

Today the league average is 101 ppg. 2013-14, the Bulls held opponents to a league BEST 92 points per game. In 97-98, 5 teams held their opponents to under 90 points per game. Are there still stupid people who are going to claim Jordan's era wasn't better defensively? Lebron has it a hundred times easier than MJ. Players/Coaches who have competed in the modern era and Jordan's era state that players and defense back then were better and more skilled - Gary Payton, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Kobe, Rodman, and even guys who only played in the modern era like Joe Johnson.

Lebron gets shut down by the weak Mavs Zone - in MJs day they didn't even have defensive 3 seconds (introduced in 2001-02) when they played zone. And before people claim they didn't have zone back then - Nov 4, 1987, NY Times - Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of ZONE traps and DOUBLE and TRIPLE-teaming to win the scoring title (37.1 ppg). K Jordan VS Zone Isolation 1-1 Defense Meanwhile Lebron, despite having NO hand checking, NO physical play, and WITH defensive 3 seconds benefit, only got 7 almighty points vs the Pacers.

Don't forget not 1, not 2, but 8 Pts against the soft and old Mavs. Don't forget entire series aveages of 35% vs 2007 Spurs and 35% vs 08 Celtics. Imagine if this was the bad boy pistons or gangster Knicks with the rules Jordan played. Lebron might end up with negative points. Lebron never averaged more than 7.4 apg in finals. MJ averaged 11.4 in 91. In 2014 finals, Lebron averaged less assists than Jordan in 5 out of 6 finals.

Lebron - 2 of the worst finals performances in NBA history in the WEAKEST defensive era. Lebron has 3 losses in Finals. Jordan has 2 3peats and 0 losses in the HARDEST era. NO DISCUSSION. Stupid fans say - oh lebron is too athletic for 80-90s to handle. But yet even WITHOUT the harder defensive rules he gets locked down by old Mavs old celtics old spurs (2007, 2012-13), Kawhi Leonard, BORIS DIAW, and inconsistent pacers.

Mad Max, Rodman, Dumars, Payton, Cooper, Mcdaniel, Rivers, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, G Wilkins, Anthony Mason and more would MURDER that overrated BUM if the played back then. Not to mention he would get challenged by Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, David Robinson, Alonzo, Mutombo, Parish, Kareem every time at the rim instead of bums like Hibbert.

IRREFUTABLE INCONTESTABLE INDISPUTABLE UNDENIABLE INCONTROVERTIBLE UNQUESTIONABLE UNDISPUTED FLAWLESS nonsubjective FACT that lebron is not top 10 all time. I challenge anyone to prove lebron is top 10. But I know that is impossible so no chance of response. Anyone who thinks Lebron is top 10 without several more rings is a blind sheep that follows the herd, nothing more.


Had to quote this and break it up for you, because it's definitely worth the read. I know you worked hard on the points you wanted to make.

:cheers:

[TheMan]

I know you in the past have blamed Pip for that but Pippen averaged 19/10/7/3 that series. They had no help on the inside and had too much to do and were gassed by the end of games. That is where Rodman was key the next year.

Comparing MJ to anyone else in the mental aspect of the game is unfair. MJ had a legendary focus (Malone was blown away by MJ and Pip's focus while playing with them on the Dream Team) and amazing will to win. Back when he first entered the league teams flew commercial so the players would play Pac Man while waiting for their flights. MJ kept losing (I think to Sellers) and bought a Pac Man machine so he could practice at home. Needless to say, he proceeded to turn the tables at the game. A similar story happened in 92' in Barcelona. MJ kept losing in ping pong and ordered one of his minions to get him a ping pong table to practice. That kind of obsession with winning is a key ingredient in his success. Some call it unhealthy but I disagree. I similarly had an obsession with winning back when I was on campaigns.



Yes, but the same can be said about others whose bad games get cherry picked, although it is true MJ had an unusually low number of bad playoff games. The fact is no major Bull was a Karl Malone or David Robinson-type consistent underperformer in the playoffs. The closest thing to that is Rodman's rebounding dipping in those years. Pippen's career playoff numbers are better than his regular season numbers and he consistently raised his scoring and rebounding in the playoffs (he actually led the team in rebounding in the playoffs several times in the 90's despite being a SF) throughout his career.
Blagojevich, is that you?

[Soundwave]

Jordan carried the Bulls in game six. But that doesn't mean Pippen had a bad series. Thats all im saying. Granted he wasnt scoring 25ppg through the first four games, but his impact through his defense and rebounding etc was tantamount to a player scoring 30 ppg.

Thats just the greatness of the Bulls. Both Jordan and Pippen didnt exactly set the world on fire in 96, But Rodman and Longley (yes Longley) really picked up the slack.

The beauty of basketball is you don't have to play a "perfect" game. The Bulls were fortunate in the sense that they had the ultimate finisher, every one of their six title runs was a little different, but MJ answered the bell pretty much every time.

They won plenty of playoff rounds where Dennis' head was in the clouds or he wasn't properly engaged in the game either too.

[97 bulls]

basketball is team game... when LeBron was in foul trouble vs the pacers he only had 8 points.. MJ may have under performed but he didn't drag them down. when LeBron is not on the floor dwade actually seems to be in control ... when mj is not on the floor they struggle to score kukoc is effective because they tend to focus on mj .
This isn't true. Remember games 6 of the 92 NBA Finals? The Bulls were down 15 with one quarter left and with Jordan resting, his team bought them all the way back to only a 2 pt deficit before Jordan came back.

Or 1997 (the Bulls best team). Jordan again takes his rest to start the fourth as well as Rodman and the Bulls erased a 12 pt deficit. And just fir emphasis, the Bulls had on the floor three guys capable of giving you 20 ppg in Pip, Kukoc, and Brian Williams (aka Bisen Dele). And the best 3pt shooter in the game in Kerr. Plenty of firepower.

Or 1994. The year Jordan retires, the Bulls still win 55 games and should've at least advanced back to the ECF.

[Soundwave]

This isn't true. Remember games 6 of the 92 NBA Finals? The Bulls were down 15 with one quarter left and with Jordan resting, his team bought them all the way back to only a 2 pt deficit before Jordan came back.

Or 1997 (the Bulls best team). Jordan again takes his rest to start the fourth as well as Rodman and the Bulls erased a 12 pt deficit. And just fir emphasis, the Bulls had on the floor three guys capable of giving you 20 ppg in Pip, Kukoc, and Brian Williams (aka Bisen Dele). And the best 3pt shooter in the game in Kerr. Plenty of firepower.

Or 1994. The year Jordan retires, the Bulls still win 55 games and should've at least advanced back to the ECF.

Eh, it could be argued they Knicks should've iced that 94 series in 5 or 6 games. They had the Bulls on the ropes and could've gone up 3-0 if it wasn't for Kukoc's miracle shot. I wonder if Pippen would've hit that shot if the play had been drawn up for him instead like he wanted? Would've been interesting to see.

That Knicks squad in general had huge trouble closing out teams, it was exposed even more wildly in the next round against Indiana with Reggie Miller pulling off one of the most amazing playoff comeback performances ever.

To the OP's point though, the Bulls did certainly win playoff rounds where Pippen was hurt at some point or not playing his best and/or Rodman was off his game.

LeBron couldn't close when Wade had an off series against a decent opponent (not those weak ass Eastern punching bags).

[97 bulls]

The beauty of basketball is you don't have to play a "perfect" game. The Bulls were fortunate in the sense that they had the ultimate finisher, every one of their six title runs was a little different, but MJ answered the bell pretty much every time.

They won plenty of playoff rounds where Dennis' head was in the clouds or he wasn't properly engaged in the game either too.
Again too much credit is given to Jordan. The Bulls had not only Jordan and all the attributes you credit him, but he he games best defender in Pippen, the best rebounder in Rodman, the best sixthman in Kukoc, and the best coach. As well as bench.

Some nights Jordan saved them, some nights Pip did, Rodman, even Kukoc.

You're attempting to argue a point that we have references for. And weve shown this to you. Time after time. But youre so enamored with defending the honor of Jordan, you just can't acknowledge it. Let Jordans accomplishments speak for themselves. Jordan did have a better team than James. But damn Six championships? Two threepeats? The best, second best and foruth best records in NBa history? No player can touch that.

[knicksman]

just acept it bran stans. You guys have the lowest IQ on this board. And a leader doesnt let his teammates takeover when theyre down 7 while he statpads during 20 pt leads by spurs and gets the credit. LMAO these idiots doesnt get it.

[veilside23]

This isn't true. Remember games 6 of the 92 NBA Finals? The Bulls were down 15 with one quarter left and with Jordan resting, his team bought them all the way back to only a 2 pt deficit before Jordan came back.

Or 1997 (the Bulls best team). Jordan again takes his rest to start the fourth as well as Rodman and the Bulls erased a 12 pt deficit. And just fir emphasis, the Bulls had on the floor three guys capable of giving you 20 ppg in Pip, Kukoc, and Brian Williams (aka Bisen Dele). And the best 3pt shooter in the game in Kerr. Plenty of firepower.

Or 1994. The year Jordan retires, the Bulls still win 55 games and should've at least advanced back to the ECF.


the difference is Jordan played when it mattered the most

LeBron cried ... and had a 0 pt 4th quarter in game 3 :rolleyes:

[dc_chilling]

Lets be honest, MJ really did not have very many "bad" playoff games period from 91 onwards. It's a pretty small handful considering how many playoff games they played in.

And if he did he almost always came back the next game with a better performance.

He is pretty much the definition of playoff consistency. Dude pretty much manned up and delivered every time the Bulls really needed him to, the only time he didn't was in '95 when his timing was off.

That was the one time he really could've used someone else to carry him a bit.

This is true. MJ was an incredible finals performer.

However, people that hate on Kobe, Lebron, Durant, etc. should realize that MJ didn't do it alone. I can name a ton of games where he got bailed out by a teammate, but for some reason people just gloss over it.

In 91, MJ couldn't guard Magic so Pippen took over the responsibility.
In 92, MJ played god awful in a closeout game and the Bulls got down big. However, his teammates took over while he was on the bench and they won.
In 93, Paxson hit the shot that won them the 3 peat.
In 96, MJ really struggled to score against GP. He managed to shoot 41% from the field. However, his team stepped up in that series and they won.
In 97, it was Kerr that hit that major shot to ice the game in game 5.

Players don't win rings, teams do. That is why the whole "Ray Allen saved Lebrons legacy" doesn't hold much water with me. Every player needs help to win a championship. Even MJ.

[veilside23]

here come the people saying lebron didn't have help. well guess what, when Pippen did absolutely nothing against the Pacers and Jazz in 98, Jordan still got the win and played well overall. when nobody did anything during Jordan's flu game and Pippen shooting less than 30%, he singlehandedly brought them back from 16 down to win the game and series. When nobody did anything in game 6 of 98, Jordan had the series winning steal and shot. no excuses.

Jordan only had 2 teammates averaging double figures in 98 finals, and neither scratched 16 ppg. Did that stop him? Lebron is not top 10 all time. If Lebron played in the 80s-90s rules, they would make Lebron famous, then turn around and make him nameless because Lebron never understood how vital to them the basketball game is. The only part of lebrons game that would improve is his overrated defense, he couldn't even guard Paul Pierce in 08 or tony Parker in 2007 finals. Steph Curry lit up the Heat every time he played them. He never guarded anyone as good as when MJ shut down finals MVP Isiah Thomas and top 5 SG Clyde Drexler.

Now back to the lecture at hand. Perfection is perfected so Im going to let you understand. NBA defense before defensive rule changes - 91 ppg (98-99). Today the league average is 101 ppg. 2013-14, the Bulls held opponents to a league BEST 92 points per game. In 97-98, 5 teams held their opponents to under 90 points per game. Are there still stupid people who are going to claim Jordan's era wasn't better defensively?

Lebron has it a hundred times easier than MJ. Players/Coaches who have competed in the modern era and Jordan's era state that players and defense back then were better and more skilled - Gary Payton, Larry Brown, Phil Jackson, Kobe, Rodman, and even guys who only played in the modern era like Joe Johnson. Lebron gets shut down by the weak Mavs Zone - in MJs day they didn't even have defensive 3 seconds (introduced in 2001-02) when they played zone. And before people claim they didn't have zone back then - Nov 4, 1987, NY Times - Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of ZONE traps and DOUBLE and TRIPLE-teaming to win the scoring title (37.1 ppg). K Jordan VS Zone Isolation 1-1 Defense Meanwhile Lebron, despite having NO hand checking, NO physical play, and WITH defensive 3 seconds benefit, only got 7 almighty points vs the Pacers. Don't forget not 1, not 2, but 8 Pts against the soft and old Mavs. Don't forget entire series aveages of 35% vs 2007 Spurs and 35% vs 08 Celtics. Imagine if this was the bad boy pistons or gangster Knicks with the rules Jordan played. Lebron might end up with negative points. Lebron never averaged more than 7.4 apg in finals. MJ averaged 11.4 in 91. In 2014 finals, Lebron averaged less assists than Jordan in 5 out of 6 finals. Lebron - 2 of the worst finals performances in NBA history in the WEAKEST defensive era. Lebron has 3 losses in Finals. Jordan has 2 3peats and 0 losses in the HARDEST era.

NO DISCUSSION. Stupid fans say - oh lebron is too athletic for 80-90s to handle. But yet even WITHOUT the harder defensive rules he gets locked down by old Mavs old celtics old spurs (2007, 2012-13), Kawhi Leonard, BORIS DIAW, and inconsistent pacers. Mad Max, Rodman, Dumars, Payton, Cooper, Mcdaniel, Rivers, Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, G Wilkins, Anthony Mason and more would MURDER that overrated BUM if the played back then. Not to mention he would get challenged by Malone, Hakeem, Ewing, David Robinson, Alonzo, Mutombo, Parish, Kareem every time at the rim instead of bums like Hibbert.

IRREFUTABLE INCONTESTABLE INDISPUTABLE UNDENIABLE INCONTROVERTIBLE UNQUESTIONABLE UNDISPUTED FLAWLESS nonsubjective FACT that lebron is not top 10 all time. I challenge anyone to prove lebron is top 10. But I know that is impossible so no chance of response. Anyone who thinks Lebron is top 10 without several more rings is a blind sheep that follows the herd, nothing more.


I wonder why no one tried to contest this post

[Lebron23]

Hiphopfan77 is probably the most idiotic poster in this thread. Putang Ina mo kung hinde lang me makakapagpigil sasakalin kita after I kicked your stiffed @$$ in the court.

On topic.


Lebron is the only bright spot for the Heat in the NBA finals. And I hope you keep your mouth shut cause Lebron is still a top 10 player of all time with 4 NBA MVP, and 2x Finals MVP.

[veilside23]

Again too much credit is given to Jordan. The Bulls had not only Jordan and all the attributes you credit him, but he he games best defender in Pippen, the best rebounder in Rodman, the best sixthman in Kukoc, and the best coach. As well as bench.

Some nights Jordan saved them, some nights Pip did, Rodman, even Kukoc.

You're attempting to argue a point that we have references for. And weve shown this to you. Time after time. But youre so enamored with defending the honor of Jordan, you just can't acknowledge it. Let Jordans accomplishments speak for themselves. Jordan did have a better team than James. But damn Six championships? Two threepeats? The best, second best and foruth best records in NBa history? No player can touch that.


but pip never won DPOY

LeBron was saved by a washed up ray allen.

a role player in lewis

and a mike miller that they didn't choose to pay that's why they lost.
its not just some nights that Jordan save the bulls.

why cant you give credit to the guy that gave you 6 titles and made Chicago the 3rd in titles overall .

and yet since the day he retired Chicago hasn't reach the finals yet.
its been 16 years now ... :rolleyes:

[knicksman]

bran is a beta. Who bullies on easy targets but nowhere to be found against tougher than him. Thats why bron is great in the RS but nowhere to be found in the playoffs. Thats why bron is great in the 1st quarters or when his team is down 20 but nowhere to be found during 4th quarters or his team down by 7. Id rather have a player who can score only 5 pts but made when theyre down 7 or less than a player scoring 10 when theyre down 20 or more. The more underdog they are, the more they love the moment and try to prove people wrong. Thats why theres no way these guys would join their peers. Thats what you dont get you beta bran stans. Thats why its a joke people are now overrating pippen just to discount jordan when pippen is not even better than bosh. Honestly jordan is a perimeter player yet didnt need a big man to win.

[Lebron23]

bran is a beta. Who bullies on easy targets but nowhere to be found against tougher than him. Thats why bron is great in the RS but nowhere to be found in the playoffs. Thats why bron is great in the 1st quarters or when his team is down 20 but nowhere to be found during 4th quarters or his team down by 7. Id rather have a player who can score only 5 pts but made when theyre down 7 or less than a player scoring 10 when theyre down 20 or more. The more underdog they are, the more they love the moment and try to prove people wrong. Thats why theres no way these guys would join their peers. Thats what you dont get you beta bran stans. Thats why its a joke people are now overrating pippen just to discount jordan when pippen is not even better than bosh. Honestly jordan is a perimeter player yet didnt need a big man to win.


Lebron is greater than the knicks franchise. But you are not even a knicks fan. You are a kobe stan hiding under this account

[97 bulls]

Eh, it could be argued they Knicks should've iced that 94 series in 5 or 6 games. They had the Bulls on the ropes and could've gone up 3-0 if it wasn't for Kukoc's miracle shot. I wonder if Pippen would've hit that shot if the play had been drawn up for him instead like he wanted? Would've been interesting to see.

That Knicks squad in general had huge trouble closing out teams, it was exposed even more wildly in the next round against Indiana with Reggie Miller pulling off one of the most amazing playoff comeback performances ever.

To the OP's point though, the Bulls did certainly win playoff rounds where Pippen was hurt at some point or not playing his best and/or Rodman was off his game.

LeBron couldn't close when Wade had an off series against a decent opponent (not those weak ass Eastern punching bags).
The argument can be made. That can be made for every team. the difference is we can blame a teamn or player for missed shots, bad defense, not reboundeing, things that are in their control, but you cant fault them for bad calls made by the refs.

My point is that they were still extremely competitive without Jordan. Soemthing you refuse to acknowledge.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron is greater than the knicks franchise. But you are not even a knicks fan. You are a kobe stan hiding under this account


2-1 >>> 2-3.


:confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

Lebron is greater than the knicks franchise. But you are not even a knicks fan. You are a kobe stan hiding under this account

at the end of the day. Youre still a beta fakkit. And how does it feel to be 1 of the lowest IQ on this board??:lol

[Lebron23]

at the end of the day. Youre still a beta fakkit. And how does it feel to be 1 of the lowest IQ on this board??:lol


You are a terrible poster. How many accounts do you have F@kkit??

[fpliii]

2-1 >>> 2-3.


:confusedshrug:
Knicks are 2-6 doe.

Sucks, because I've spent most of my life in-market. Hope they can win one under Phil. :(

[veilside23]

The argument can be made. That can be made for every team. the difference is we can blame a teamn or player for missed shots, bad defense, not reboundeing, things that are in their control, but you cant fault them for bad calls made by the refs.

My point is that they were still extremely competitive without Jordan. Soemthing you refuse to acknowledge.


competitive yes but without Jordan the bulls has no rings something you refuse to acknowledge

[Lebron23]

Knicks are 2-6 doe.

Sucks, because I've spent most of my life in-market. Hope they can win one under Phil. :(

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[JT123]

bran is a beta. Who bullies on easy targets but nowhere to be found against tougher than him. Thats why bron is great in the RS but nowhere to be found in the playoffs. Thats why bron is great in the 1st quarters or when his team is down 20 but nowhere to be found during 4th quarters or his team down by 7. Id rather have a player who can score only 5 pts but made when theyre down 7 or less than a player scoring 10 when theyre down 20 or more. The more underdog they are, the more they love the moment and try to prove people wrong. Thats why theres no way these guys would join their peers. Thats what you dont get you beta bran stans. Thats why its a joke people are now overrating pippen just to discount jordan when pippen is not even better than bosh. Honestly jordan is a perimeter player yet didnt need a big man to win.
Reading this dudes posts makes people lose brain cells. :cletus:

[Roundball_Rock]

Eh, it could be argued they Knicks should've iced that 94 series in 5 or 6 games. They had the Bulls on the ropes and could've gone up 3-0 if it wasn't for Kukoc's miracle shot.

:roll: at MJ stans and the non-stop agenda of diminishing his teammates. The Bulls' one narrow win is constantly invoked but you never hear MJ stans mention that 3 of the Knicks wins, including the illegitimate Game 5 "win", were narrow. In fact, Chicago outscored New York in that series. The Bulls were likely the better team vis-a-vis NY (as Phil Jackson noted, the Knicks could not win playing basketball so they restored to thuggery to give them an edge) and they certainly were better than Indiana that year. This Knicks team took the Rockets and peak Hakeem to 7 games and this is the same Knicks team that MJ stans always cite as the "toughest" competition MJ faced.

Game 1: NY wins by 4.
Game 2: NY wins by 5.
Game 3: CHI wins by 2.
Game 4: CHI wins by 12.
Game 5: NY "wins" by 1.
Game 6: CHI wins by 14.
Game 7: NY wins by 10.

Two of the three double digit wins were Chicago wins.


That Knicks squad in general had huge trouble closing out teams,

It was the Bulls who blew fourth quarter leads in New York in the first two games.

Of course, 97_bulls and I were rooting for Chicago in that series so we have a different view than MJ fans...


My point is that they were still extremely competitive without Jordan. Soemthing you refuse to acknowledge.

That was with a D-Leaguer replacing MJ too. Imagine if they had time to find a legitimate NBA starter. It is a shame MJ retired 2 days before training camp.

It is funny how MJ stans try to make the Bulls seem like the Hawks of recent years. Everyone at the time viewed them as legitimate championship contenders (i.e. like the Thunder or Clippers this year). NBC would promote their pursuit of a 4th title and Pippen's MVP campaign in promos, for example. You can also look at articles at the time and coverage of the games on YouTube.

[veilside23]

:roll: at MJ stans and the non-stop agenda of diminishing his teammates. The Bulls' one narrow win is constantly invoked but you never hear MJ stans mention that 3 of the Knicks wins, including the illegitimate Game 5 "win", were narrow. In fact, Chicago outscored New York in that series. The Bulls were likely the better team and they certainly were better than Indiana that year. This Knicks team took the Rockets and peak Hakeem to 7 games and this is the same Knicks team that MJ stans always cite as the "toughest" competition MJ faced.

Game 1: NY wins by 4.
Game 2: NY wins by 5.
Game 3: CHI wins by 2.
Game 4: CHI wins by 12.
Game 5: NY "wins" by 1.
Game 6: CHI wins by 14.
Game 7: NY wins by 10.

Two of the three double digit wins were Chicago wins.



It was the Bulls who blew fourth quarter leads in New York in the first two games.

Of course, 97_bulls and I were rooting for Chicago in that series so we have a different view of than MJ fans...


you are making it sound like ewing is a roy hibbert... Alonzo mourning is argued to even be better than Dwight howard..

Quit the crap without Jordan Chicago would be ringless...

[knicksman]

Reading this dudes posts makes people lose brain cells. :cletus:


says a bran stan..Lowest IQ on this board:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

but pip never won DPOY

LeBron was saved by a washed up ray allen.

a role player in lewis

and a mike miller that they didn't choose to pay that's why they lost.
its not just some nights that Jordan save the bulls.

why cant you give credit to the guy that gave you 6 titles and made Chicago the 3rd in titles overall .

and yet since the day he retired Chicago hasn't reach the finals yet.
its been 16 years now ... :rolleyes:
Ive give Jordan full credit for being the goat. I'm on record as saying he had no weakness on the basketball court and in my opinion is the only player that can make that claim. I just take exception to fans of his lying, and making it seem as if his teammates were just decent and he did all the work. Thats not true.

Even in a post I made in this thread, I said let Jordans accomplishments speak for themselves. The championships, the records, etc. But the fact is he had great support from his teammates.

[Calabis]

The difference is Pippen didn't play bad. 22/9/7 while being the best defender in the playoffs is hardly something to scoff at. I remember series er saying theres teams that would kill for those numbers from their best player much less their second.

So Pip avg those numbers against the Pistons in the series he mentioned? Settle down there 97 Bulls he was a guy I tried to model my game after....but the series hes referring too he was not very good.

Also Wade put up 26/7/5..he outplayed the alpha James..... Pip never did in the finals.

[veilside23]

Ive give Jordan full credit for being the goat. I'm on record as saying he had no weakness on the basketball court and in my opinion is the only player that can make that claim. I just take exception to fans of his lying and making itb seem as if his teammates were just decent and he did all the work. Thats not true.

Even in a post I made in this thread, I said let Jordans accomplishments speak for themselves. The championships, the records, etc. But the fact is he had great support from his teammates.


I don't discredit his teammates . I just don't overrate them.

[Roundball_Rock]

So Pip avg those numbers against the Pistons in the series he mentioned? Settle down there 97 Bulls he was a guy I tried to model my game after....but the series hes referring too he was not very good.

Also Wade put up 26/7/5..he outplayed the alpha James..... Pip never did in the finals.

26/7/5...:oldlol: at MJ fans acting as if that is light years different than Pippen's Finals performances. His career Finals averages are 19/8/6/2/1. He had series of 21/9/8, 21/8/8, 21/9/7 all while providing more defensive dominance than Wade did.

[veilside23]

26/7/5...:oldlol: at MJ fans acting as if that is light years different than Pippen's Finals performances. His career Finals averages are 19/8/6/2/1. He had series of 21/9/8, 21/8/8, 21/9/7 all while providing more defensive dominance than Wade did.


please post Jordan's numbers ... you are acting like Jordan is 25ppg :rolleyes:

[Roundball_Rock]

please post Jordan's numbers

Why? I am on record calling MJ the GOAT Finals performer.

[97 bulls]

competitive yes but without Jordan the bulls has no rings something you refuse to acknowledge
Refuse to acknowledge? Hell id be the first person to say the Bulls cant win without Jordan or a suitable replacement. I also feel they couldn't win without Pippen, or Rodman as we saw in 95.

But damn the best way to define depth isnt by stats. Its by wins and under extenuating circumstances. Think back to hiw many teams lost their best player and just faiked miserably. Then look at the Bulls from 94 to 98.

94. No Jordan but still win 55 games. And took the eventual EC champs to seven hard fought games.

95. No Rodman or Grant, with Jordan for seventeen games 47 wins. On pace for 57wins

96. Set alltime record for wins in a season

97. Win 69 games with Rodman and Kukoc missing almost 20 a piece

98. Pippen misses half the season and they still win 62 games.

And mind you they weren't replacing these guys with comparable talent. Pete Myers (Jordan), Scott Burrell (Pippen) and Jason Caffey (Rodman) were the players that took their place.

[knicksman]

roundball rock's IQ got exposed a long time ago. He argued MJ is not GOAT becasue of pippen but bran has the chance when he has 2 players better than pippen. He thinks KAJ is the GOAT when he has not just a pippen(worthy) but also the real GOAT candidate(magic) but again jordan is not because of pippen. Thats all you need to know about his IQ.

[Roundball_Rock]

98. Pippen misses half the season and they still win 62 games.

Interestingly, during that half they were on pace for 56 wins. In other words, without Pippen the 98' Bulls were what the 94' Bulls were without Jordan (they were on pace for 58 wins that year with Pippen, which would have given them the #1 seed)--yet MJ fans praise MJ for keeping them afloat in 98' and then denigrate Pippen for doing the same.


roundball rock's IQ got exposed a long time ago. He argued MJ is not GOAT becasue of pippen

That is a lie. I have never said that. Care to show such a quote? Thanks in advance.

[BigMacAttack]

2/5

[97 bulls]

please post Jordan's numbers ... you are acting like Jordan is 25ppg :rolleyes:
Jordan had great numbers. Tremendous. Better than Pippens, but that doesn't mean Pip played bad.

[veilside23]

Interestingly, during that half they were on pace for 56 wins. In other words, without Pippen the 98' Bulls were what the 94' Bulls were without Jordan (they were on pace for 58 wins that year with Pippen, which would have given them the #1 seed)--yet MJ fans praise MJ for keeping them afloat in 98' and then denigrate Pippen for doing the same.





again I don't just overrate MJ's teammates... Jordan elevated his game when it mattered the most on both ends of the court

[Roundball_Rock]

again I don't just overrate MJ's teammates... Jordan elevated his game when it mattered the most on both ends of the court

Who disputes that? One can credit MJ's greatness while simultaneously crediting his teammates, like 97bulls does.

[knicksman]

pippen role is not to score during clutch time, its jordan. Pippens role should be lesser like scoring during 1st quarters or during blowouts. But what can you do, Lebron wants to take pippens role coz its the easier role and let his pippen(wade) take over games while he takes the credit. What a great leader bron is. Why cant you bran stans understand that this is the reason why bran has to form a superteam. Hes just not skilled to take over games as evidenced by being exposed every year compared to jordan who improves during the playoffs. His skills are for winning MVPs and not rings. So hes hoping wade can carry him while he takes the credit.

[Roundball_Rock]

pippen role is not to score during clutch time, its jordan.

And who disputes that? BTW, it was Kareem, not Magic, who was the go-to clutch scorer for the Lakers yet no one brings that up against Magic, nor do they invoke Magic's FGA averages. Even when KAJ was 41 the Lakers were calling clutch players for him! :bowdown:

[knicksman]

And who disputes that? BTW, it was Kareem, not Magic, who was the go-to clutch scorer for the Lakers yet no one brings that up against Magic, nor do they invoke Magic's FGA averages. Even when KAJ was 41 the Lakers were calling clutch players for him! :bowdown:

yeah coz magic is the scorer genius.

[fpliii]

yeah coz magic is the scorer genius.
He wasn't the scorer *or* the PG until Norm Nixon was traded.

[knicksman]

Who disputes that? One can credit MJ's greatness while simultaneously crediting his teammates, like 97bulls does.

yet you werent crediting KAJ and brans teammates when you guys are declaring them GOATS or potential GOATS. LMAO deal with it guys. Your boy lost which mean your IQs got exposed so bad.

[97 bulls]

Who disputes that? One can credit MJ's greatness while simultaneously crediting his teammates, like 97bulls does.
Exactly.

[Bl]

http://spurs.blog.chatsports.com/files/2014/06/duncangraphic.jpg

[Calabis]

26/7/5...:oldlol: at MJ fans acting as if that is light years different than Pippen's Finals performances. His career Finals averages are 19/8/6/2/1. He had series of 21/9/8, 21/8/8, 21/9/7 all while providing more defensive dominance than Wade did.

Are u being silly?...why dont you go look what I quoted prior to this. U posted Jordan's teammate PIP numbers 21/9/8 in 91 series...ur consigner stated he was waiting for someone to explain this......yes ur right its not different its very SIMILAR yet LeBron got swept.

So with Scottie Pippen like help LeBron got swept in the finals..:roll:

[Calabis]

Yes, arguably the GOAT Finals performance (before Jordan stans send the hounds, I consider MJ to be the GOAT Finals performer). Remember Pippen also averaging 21/9/8 in that series, though? Wade and Bosh were non-factors in this Finals.

So when Wade was a factor similar to Pippen....what happened?

[Calabis]

yet you werent crediting KAJ and brans teammates when you guys are declaring them GOATS or potential GOATS. LMAO deal with it guys. Your boy lost which mean your IQs got exposed so bad.

Exactly. ..:applause:

[deja vu]

Jordan getting disrespected by butthurt LeBron stans who is 2/5 in the Finals :lol I mean how could these fakkits say stupid things like "Jordan couldn't win without Pippen" when LeBron colluded with his superfriends. I could easily say "LeBron couldn't win without Wade and Bosh" but I won't. Every superstar needs some help.

Don't think LeBron stans have the right to bash someone who's 6/6 with 6 FMVP. :lol

[NumberSix]

is that jordan's w/l ratio without pippen?
No. Jordan couldn't even make a finals without Pippen.

[NumberSix]

yet you werent crediting KAJ and brans teammates when you guys are declaring them GOATS or potential GOATS. LMAO deal with it guys. Your boy lost which mean your IQs got exposed so bad.
Why would you? What do other people have to do with LeBron the individual?

[Soundwave]

No. Jordan couldn't even make a finals without Pippen.

Jordan played two seasons without Pippen, lol. No player in NBA history (not Russell, not Kareem, not Magic who refused to even be drafted by the Bulls) would make an NBA Finals with that Bulls team. Especially since the East had some team known as the Celtics back in the 80s.

Give Jordan Wade and Bosh and the Heat have 4 titles right now, instead of 2 chips (one by fluke really).

[veilside23]

No. Jordan couldn't even make a finals without Pippen.


2 seasons without pip

LeBron had 7 seasons with the cavs

who played with lots of all stars and a team that was built because of him and got swept in the finals and yet he still left to join his superfriends but only managed to get 2 and 1 courtesy of a washed up ray allen. :rolleyes:

[Soundwave]

Jordan getting disrespected by butthurt LeBron stans who is 2/5 in the Finals :lol I mean how could these fakkits say stupid things like "Jordan couldn't win without Pippen" when LeBron colluded with his superfriends. I could easily say "LeBron couldn't win without Wade and Bosh" but I won't. Every superstar needs some help.

Don't think LeBron stans have the right to bash someone who's 6/6 with 6 FMVP. :lol

Yeah no shame. They should be licking MJ's nuts all day today now after they've kissed Kobe's ass now that they've realized that threepeating ain't the Disneyland ride they thought it was going to be.

[97 bulls]

No. Jordan couldn't even make a finals without Pippen.
This is an ignorant statement. Is Jordan supposed to win a title without a great team even though every other all time great has been blessed with such support?

[TheMan]

No. Jordan couldn't even make a finals without Pippen.
Come on bro, you're better than this.

[diamenz]

man, how does a thread like this from a known troll get 10 pages in a day?

gg

[smoovegittar]

Jordan's Bulls teams were a thing of beauty. They were coached and played to perfection. You don't see this on the Heat at any given time. Let's not forget that a Jordan-less Bulls team led by Pippen almost made the finals in '94.