Rank: MJ, Kobe, and LeBron's Finals Opponents

[SamuraiSWISH]

Exclude Kobe's 2000 - 2002 because of having next to Wilt, and Jordan the most dominant, game changing player of all-time.

We'll just go based off the Finals where he was the definitive best player, which was his 2008 - 2010 run. No arguments as to who was better between Shaq and Kobe.

1991 LA Lakers
1992 Portland Trailblazers
1993 Phoenix Suns
1996 Seattle Supersonics
1997 Utah Jazz
1998 Utah Jazz
2008 Boston Celtics
2009 Orlando Magic
2010 Boston Celtics
2011 Dallas Mavericks
2012 OKC Thunder
2013 San Antonio Spurs
2014 San Antonio Spurs

[TheMarkMadsen]

Why should I ignore a finals where Kobe put up 27/6/6 and a finals where he put up 25/8/6 while leading the playoffs in WS & averaging 29/7/6 for the playoffs?

Because outside of Kobe with Shaq, Jordan's running mate Pippen is by far the best "sidekick" who at times was averaging a near triple double in the finals.

[ShackEelOKneel]

2014 Spurs
2008 Celtics
1992 Blazers
1998 Jazz
2013 Spurs
2011 Mavs
1993 Suns
1997 Jazz
1996 Sonics
2010 Celitcs
1991 Lakers
2012 Thunder
2009 Magic

[fpliii]

Exclude Kobe's 2000 - 2002 because of having next to Wilt, and Jordan the most dominant, game changing player of all-time.

We'll just go based off the Finals where he was the definitive best player, which was his 2008 - 2010 run. No arguments as to who was better between Shaq and Kobe.

1991 LA Lakers
1992 Portland Trailblazers
1993 Phoenix Suns
1996 Seattle Supersonics
1997 Utah Jazz
1998 Utah Jazz
2008 Boston Celtics
2009 Orlando Magic
2010 Boston Celtics
2011 Dallas Mavericks
2012 OKC Thunder
2013 San Antonio Spurs
2014 San Antonio Spurs
What about 04 DET?

EDIT: Oops, sorry, missed the bolded.

[Bl]

http://spurs.blog.chatsports.com/files/2014/06/duncangraphic.jpg

[1987_Lakers]

1. 2014 Spurs
2. 2008 Celtics
3. 1997 Jazz
4. 2011 Mavs
5. 2012 Thunder
6. 2013 Spurs
7. 1998 Jazz
8. 2010 Celtics
9. 1993 Suns
10. 1996 Sonics
11. 1992 Blazers
12. 1991 Lakers
13. 2009 Magic

[K Xerxes]

Why should I ignore a finals where Kobe put up 27/6/6 and a finals where he put up 25/8/6 while leading the playoffs in WS & averaging 29/7/6 for the playoffs?

Because outside of Kobe with Shaq, Jordan's running mate Pippen is by far the best "sidekick" who at times was averaging a near triple double in the finals.

So the 01 sixers and 02 Nets could be put at the bottom of everyone's list? :lol

[SamuraiSWISH]

So the 01 sixers and 02 Nets could be put at the bottom of everyone's list? :lol
Right? HAH


What about 04 DET?
Good Point. Shaq was on the decline, Kobe was on the rise. Include that one. If "The Mark Madsen" wants to bitch and moan about the 2001 Sixers, and 2002 Nets. Let's include them as well.

My rank:

1) 2008 Boston Celtics
2) 1997 Utah Jazz
3) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
4) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
5) 1993 Phoenix Suns

6) 2004 Detroit Pistons
7) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
8) 2010 Boston Celtics
9) 1998 Utah Jazz
10) 2011 Dallas Mavericks

11) 2012 OKC Thunder
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2009 Orlando Magic
15) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers
16) 2002 New Jersey Nets

[fpliii]

Right? HAH


Good Point. Shaq was on the decline, Kobe was on the rise. Include that one. If "The Mark Madsen" wants to bitch and moan about the 2001 Sixers, and 2002 Nets. Let's include them as well.

My rank:

1) 2008 Boston Celtics
2) 1997 Utah Jazz
3) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
4) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
5) 1993 Phoenix Suns

6) 2004 Detroit Pistons
7) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
8) 2010 Boston Celtics
9) 1998 Utah Jazz
10) 2011 Dallas Mavericks

11) 2012 OKC Thunder
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2009 Orlando Magic
15) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers
16) 2002 New Jersey Nets
One other one, what about the 07 Spurs?

[ArbitraryWater]

Ranking all of MJ's, Kobe's, LeBron's Finals Opponents:

1) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
2) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
3) 2008 Boston Celtics
4) 1997 Utah Jazz
5) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
6) 1993 Phoenix Suns
7) 2004 Detroit Pistons
9) 2012 OKC Thunder
10) 2010 Boston Celtics
11) 1998 Utah Jazz
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2011 Dallas Mavericks
15) 2007 San Antonio Spurs
16) 2009 Orlando Magic
17) 2000 Indiana Pacers
18) 2002 New Jersey Nets
19) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers

[fpliii]

First off, Shaq was clearly superior to Kobe in 2004...
Yeah I corrected myself with the edit. :lol

I'd only read the first line.

[Bandito]

For the Lakers magic were scrubs and the Celtics were a team as good or better as the Spurs this year in defense only.

[K Xerxes]

Right? HAH


Good Point. Shaq was on the decline, Kobe was on the rise. Include that one. If "The Mark Madsen" wants to bitch and moan about the 2001 Sixers, and 2002 Nets. Let's include them as well.

My rank:

1) 2008 Boston Celtics
2) 1997 Utah Jazz
3) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
4) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
5) 1993 Phoenix Suns

6) 2004 Detroit Pistons
7) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
8) 2010 Boston Celtics
9) 1998 Utah Jazz
10) 2011 Dallas Mavericks

11) 2012 OKC Thunder
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2009 Orlando Magic
15) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers
16) 2002 New Jersey Nets

Agree with most of this list, but gotta say that 04 Pistons belong in that first tier. I'd consider them at third even... Rest seems about reasonable.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Ranking all of MJ's, Kobe's, LeBron's Finals Opponents:

1) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
2) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
3) 2008 Boston Celtics
4) 1997 Utah Jazz
5) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
6) 1993 Phoenix Suns
7) 2004 Detroit Pistons
9) 2012 OKC Thunder
10) 2010 Boston Celtics
11) 1998 Utah Jazz
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2011 Dallas Mavericks
15) 2007 San Antonio Spurs
16) 2009 Orlando Magic
17) 2000 Indiana Pacers
18) 2002 New Jersey Nets
19) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers
How one earth is the 2013 Spurs #2? I see no logic for it what so ever other than the fact you're a MASSIVE LeStan.

:oldlol:

Parker was injured in the Finals, Ginobili was literally playing for the Miami Heat. Duncan and co. choked away victory in 6 games. Also not to forget K. Leonard was in just his 2nd season, 3rd season is usually break out years for players. The season prior the 2012 OKC offed them.

2014 team is much superior to their 2013 counterpart. K. Leonard stepping up removed the choking gene of old age from Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. His growth is the reason they flourished so much. His youth, confidence, improved skill, and athleticism is exactly what they needed.

The rest of your list is actually really, really good. And I agree with the vast majority of it apart from the bias towards LeBron. The 2008 Boston Celtics are the clear cut best opponent in this entire list. And I'm removing my MJ bias.

[ArbitraryWater]

How one earth is the 2013 Spurs #2? I see no logic for it what so ever other than the fact you're a MASSIVE LeStan.

:oldlol:

Parker was injured in the Finals, Ginobili was literally playing for the Miami Heat. Duncan and co. choked away victory in 6 games. Also not to forget K. Leonard was in just his 2nd season, 3rd season is usually break out years for players. The season prior the 2012 OKC offed them.

2014 team is much superior to their 2013 counterpart. K. Leonard stepping up removed the choking gene of old age from Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. His growth is the reason they flourished so much.

The rest of your list is actually really, really good. And I agree with the vast majority of it apart from the bias towards LeBron. The 2008 Boston Celtics are the clear cut best opponent in this entire list. And I'm removing my MJ bias.

Eh, yeah I guess you're right about the '13 Spurs... May correct it, kind of "busy" right now..

Edit: BTW the "choking away" part is subjective, all it means they were so good to be 6 seconds away from a title.

Oh, and I wanted to put 2002 Nets as last.. may let it stand though.

[SexSymbol]

1 - 08 celtics
2 - 97 Jazz
3 - 04 Pistons
4 - 93 Suns
5 - 10 Celtics
6 - 11 Mavericks
7 - 14 Spurs
8 - 96 Seattle
9 - 98 Jazz
10 - 91 Lakers
11 - 13 Spurs
12 - 09 Magic
12 - 92 Portland
13 - 07 Spurs
14 - 01 76ers
15 - 00 Pacers
16 - 02 Nets
17 - 12 Thunder

[SamuraiSWISH]

Agree with most of this list, but gotta say that 04 Pistons belong in that first tier. I'd consider them at third even... Rest seems about reasonable.
I don't. They've become ridiculously overrated. All-Time great defense don't get me wrong. But overrated none the less. Especially on ISH thanks to Kobe stans.

Karl Malone was injured in the Finals. Massive hole in the lineup. His ability to stretch the interior defense from doubling Shaq with his great mid range jumper was sorely missed. As was his rebounding.

Old GP fell off suddenly, and was useless to begin with in the triangle offense. Kobe was coming off no preparation in the off season.

Then his selfish chucking of stupid jumpers with Tayshaun Prince hanging all over him, clearly gunning for a Finals MVP to remove his now stigmatic "sidekick" label is what made the Pistons look better than they were.

Even though Shaq was FEASTING on Ben Wallace.

The very next season a sophomore Wade, without near the amount of refinement, experience, skill, and certainly not the jumper of Kobe basically tore that defense to SHREDS.

Why? He didn't settle for jumpers with Prince all over him in his face. He took it to the basket, and took advantage of their lack of size protecting the basket. The Heat would've, should have won the 2005 ECF with an even older Shaq had he not gotten injured towards the end of the series.

The 2004 Pistons are one of the most overrated teams I can think of. Seriously, it's gotten ridiculous. Thanks Kobe stans !!! Where is Larry Brown now?

[jstern]

I don't like these types of threads, because the majority of people responding probably have only been watching basketball for five years, and if not probably have no memory of the 2007 Spurs, much less the Jordan's Bulls.

They'll just latch on to one point, one stat, one simplistic way of judging the teams and go by that.

While the Kobe stans will just use any dumb reason possible to put Kobe's opponent on top.

[riseagainst]

Ranking all of MJ's, Kobe's, LeBron's Finals Opponents:

1) 2014 San Antonio Spurs
2) 2013 San Antonio Spurs
3) 2008 Boston Celtics
4) 1997 Utah Jazz
5) 1996 Seattle Supersonics
6) 1993 Phoenix Suns
7) 2004 Detroit Pistons
9) 2012 OKC Thunder
10) 2010 Boston Celtics
11) 1998 Utah Jazz
12) 1992 Portland Trailblazers
13) 1991 LA Lakers
14) 2011 Dallas Mavericks
15) 2007 San Antonio Spurs
16) 2009 Orlando Magic
17) 2000 Indiana Pacers
18) 2002 New Jersey Nets
19) 2001 Philadelphia 76ers

:roll:

not a homer post at all.

[ArbitraryWater]

1 - 08 celtics
2 - 97 Jazz
3 - 04 Pistons
4 - 93 Suns
5 - 10 Celtics
6 - 11 Mavericks
7 - 14 Spurs
8 - 96 Seattle
9 - 98 Jazz
10 - 91 Lakers
11 - 13 Spurs
12 - 09 Magic
12 - 92 Portland
13 - 07 Spurs
14 - 01 76ers
15 - 00 Pacers
16 - 02 Nets
17 - 12 Thunder

:roll:

Homer list if I ever seen one... (And like I said, wrong on the '13 Spurs, will correct.)

2009 Magic > 2007 Spurs & 2012 Thunder? Are you crazy?

2004 Pistons 3rd? 2010 Celtics 5th and 2011 Mavericks 6th? 2014 Spurs 7th? Nearly every pick is off by about 5 spots.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2009 Magic > 2007 Spurs & 2012 Thunder? Are you crazy?
You overrated the 2012 Thunder given your LeBron-centric agenda, but agreed. That's just flat out ridiculous. 2009 Magic got to the Finals because a) Mo Williams went missing b) Garnett got injured in January. Was never really the same again either. Otherwise that team would've never sniffed the Finals. That clown led them to the Finals.

[STATUTORY]

for Kobe, the best team he faced in his championship run was rarely in the finals. Most of times it was in the WCF

[SexSymbol]

:roll:

Homer list if I ever seen one... (And like I said, wrong on the '13 Spurs, will correct.)

2009 Magic > 2007 Spurs & 2012 Thunder? Are you crazy?

2004 Pistons 3rd? 2010 Celtics 5th and 2011 Mavericks 6th? 2014 Spurs 7th? Nearly every pick is off by about 5 spots.
04 pistons are the greatest defense of all time
10 celtics are the second greatest defense of all time that I have ever seen.
11 Mavericks were on point all PO's, and had the heart that I have never seen
14 Spurs benefitted from Miami's defense being so incredibly bad, I'd wish to see them in the finals against let's say 08 celtics.


And to people underrating Magic, Dwight was a beast that year and Orlando was stacked in the role player department. They also had a top 3-4 coach in the NBA at the time. Hedo was playing like an all-star, rashard was playing like an all-star. That team was great, they would give trouble to the 13 spurs, they played a very similar style of basketball

[tpols]

I don't. They've become ridiculously overrated. All-Time great defense don't get me wrong. But overrated none the less. Especially on ISH thanks to Kobe stans.

Karl Malone was injured in the Finals. Massive hole in the lineup. His ability to stretch the interior defense from doubling Shaq with his great mid range jumper was sorely missed. As was his rebounding.

Old GP fell off suddenly, and was useless to begin with in the triangle offense. Kobe was coming off no preparation in the off season.

Then his selfish chucking of stupid jumpers with Tayshaun Prince hanging all over him, clearly gunning for a Finals MVP to remove his now stigmatic "sidekick" label is what made the Pistons look better than they were.

Even though Shaq was FEASTING on Ben Wallace.

The very next season a sophomore Wade, without near the amount of refinement, experience, skill, and certainly not the jumper of Kobe basically tore that defense to SHREDS.

Why? He didn't settle for jumpers with Prince all over him in his face. He took it to the basket, and took advantage of their lack of size protecting the basket. The Heat would've, should have won the 2005 ECF with an even older Shaq had he not gotten injured towards the end of the series.

The 2004 Pistons are one of the most overrated teams I can think of. Seriously, it's gotten ridiculous. Thanks Kobe stans !!! Where is Larry Brown now?

the pistons made the eastern conference finals 6 years straight.. the Finals back to back.. and were a few plays away from having back to back chips. They were a really really good team who peaked in 2004 due to all their players being in their prime/peaks when they were being coached by Larry Brown.

The things is all the numbers back it up.. 95 D-Rating is absurdly low. They were breaking records all year for consecutive games with fewest points allowed.

This was right before the rule changes to come that would limit them. They couldnt be as physical which was pretty much how they won games lol

[ArbitraryWater]

04 pistons are the greatest defense of all time
10 celtics are the second greatest defense of all time that I have ever seen.
11 Mavericks were on point all PO's, and had the heart that I have never seen
14 Spurs benefitted from Miami's defense being so incredibly bad, I'd wish to see them in the finals against let's say 08 celtics.


And to people underrating Magic, Dwight was a beast that year and Orlando was stacked in the role player department. They also had a top 3-4 coach in the NBA at the time. Hedo was playing like an all-star, rashard was playing like an all-star. That team was great, they would give trouble to the 13 spurs, they played a very similar style of basketball

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1459348_471216472995450_100665693_a.jpg

[played0ut]

for Kobe, the best team he faced in his championship run was rarely in the finals. Most of times it was in the WCF

Oh yes. We should also consider if their greatest opponents were met in their conference finals.

[SexSymbol]

https://fbcdn-photos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1459348_471216472995450_100665693_a.jpg
51 post per day :cheers:

[mehyaM24]

1) 2014 Spurs
2) 2008 Celtics
3) 2004 Pistons
4) 2011 Mavs
5) 2013 Spurs
6) 1997 Utah Jazz
7) 2007 Spurs
7) 1991 Lakers (when healthy, bottom of the list if not)
8) 1992 Blazers
9) 1996 Sonics
9) 2010 Celtics
10) 1993 Suns (midgets on the perimeter, but GOAT peak PF)
11) 2000 Pacers
12) 1998 Jazz
13) 2012 Thunder
14) 2009 Magic
18) 2002 Nets
19) 2001 76ers

100% unbiased list

[SamuraiSWISH]

The things is all the numbers back it up.. 95 D-Rating is absurdly low.
"D-Rating" alone determines the quality of an opponent? Stop. They're not as great as they're made out to be. Much like the 2011 Mavericks. A superior team just imploded because one of their superstars went nuts: LeBron in 2011, Kobe in 2004. Um also they were still the 2nd best team in the league in 2005 after the rule change. And a great defense.



10) 1993 Suns (midgets on the perimeter, but GOAT peak PF)
Dan Majerle 6'6 - SG / SF
Richard Dumas 6'7 - SG / SF
Cedric Ceballos 6'6 - SF
Danny Ainge 6'4 - SG
Charles Barkley 6'6 - SF / PF

:oldlol:

[KOBE143]

I think Im one of the very few people here capable of ranking their finals opponents without bias because I watched a lot of past finals games in youtube..

My rankings:

1. 2008 Celtics
2. 2010 Celtics
3. 2004 Pistons
4. 2000 Pacers
5. 2001 Sixers
6. 2002 Nets
7. 2009 Magic
8. 91 Lakers
9. 97 Jazz
10. 98 Jazz
11. 96 Sonics
12. 92 Blazers
13. 93 Suns
14. 12 OKC
15. 11 Mavs
16. 14 Spurs
17. 07 Spurs
18. 13 Spurs

Can you see Bran has been facing weaker finals opponent and yet still failed to have .500 record in the finals.. Dude doesnt belong to put in the same tier as Jordan, KAJ, Magic, Kobe.. He belong to choker/loser tier list where him and Wilt is fighting for number 1..

[DonDadda59]

'08 Celtics get overrated something fierce around here. They were an extremely mediocre playoff team that was taken to 7 in back to back series by terrible squads. They avoided losing to a 45 win Cavs team by the skin of their teeth and Bron was hot garbage all series.

[GimmeThat]

it's the same as ranking draft class.

which, you just have no control over whatsoever.

[Indian guy]

The '08 Celtics simply had too glaring a flaw - a jump shot-dependent offense that was prone to going very cold for very long stretches - to be ranked anywhere close to #1 on this list. There's a reason why the '08 playoffs was such a pathetic struggle for them against competition as ordinary as the 37-win Hawks and one man-led Cavaliers. And it's not like they blew the Pistons and Lakers out either. Both were very competitive series'.

[Ne 1]

"D-Rating" alone determines the quality of an opponent? Stop. They're not as great as they're made out to be.
I think that defensive rating is an excellent stat. I don't like many of the new stats, but defensive rating measures the points a team allows per 100 possessions which is a good way to judge a team defensively because it doesn't penalize a team for playing at a fast pace.

[LeBird]

1. 2014 Spurs
2. 2008 Celtics
3. 1997 Jazz
4. 2011 Mavs
5. 2012 Thunder
6. 2013 Spurs
7. 1998 Jazz
8. 2010 Celtics
9. 1993 Suns
10. 1996 Sonics
11. 1992 Blazers
12. 1991 Lakers
13. 2009 Magic

Yep, this is more or less a perfect list.

The 2014 Spurs:

- 12 of their 16 wins in the playoffs were won with 15+ points.
- By outscoring Heat 528-458, the Spurs recorded the biggest point differential for an NBA Finals series of any length.
- Spurs shot .5276 (191-362 FGA) for The Finals, the highest-shooting FG pct. for a Finals of any length.

[allball]

2014 San Antonio Spurs
2008 Boston Celtics
1997 Utah Jazz
2013 San Antonio Spurs
1996 Seattle Supersonics
1993 Phoenix Suns
1991 LA Lakers
2011 Dallas Mavericks
1998 Utah Jazz
1992 Portland Trailblazers
2009 Orlando Magic
2010 Boston Celtics
2012 OKC Thunder