Both Bosh & LeBron say the 2014 Spurs are the best team they have ever played against

[1987_Lakers]

Chris Bosh on these Spurs: "Best team I ever saw. Best team I ever played against." @Rachel__Nichols

LeBron asked if the Spurs are best he's ever played against: "I would agree." @ChrisPalmerNBA

[navy]

It isnt debatable.

[smoovegittar]

as they limped away. That shit was straight payback.

[Indian guy]

As a huge LeBron fan since '06, no other opponent, besides the '13 Spurs themselves, even comes close. They are the only team who not only had any weaknesses, but did everything at an elite level. '14 Spurs should go down as an all time great team.

[guy]

I'd say the 07 Spurs and 08 Celtics were better but it's arguable.

[russwest0]

lol no shit they were a few missed FT's away from getting swept

[Indian guy]

I'd say the 07 Spurs and 08 Celtics were better but it's arguable.

LeBron has no reason to consider either team better though.

[DMAVS41]

As a huge LeBron fan since '06, no other opponent, besides the '13 Spurs themselves, even comes close. They are the only team who not only had any weaknesses, but did everything at an elite level. '14 Spurs should go down as an all time great team.

the 2011 Mavs were easily better than the 13 Spurs.

This Spurs team might be better than the 11 Mavs...I don't know, but definitely not the ****ing 13 Spurs with Parker, Manu, and Green choking their asses off.

[NumberSix]

the 2011 Mavs were easily better than the 13 Spurs.

This Spurs team might be better than the 11 Mavs...I don't know, but definitely not the ****ing 13 Spurs with Parker, Manu, and Green choking their asses off.
I disagree. Miami in 2011 with a weaker team sweeps Dallas if LeBron plays to his normal standards. (This is obviously not verifiable, just my opinion)

In 2013, San Antonio took a better Heat team to 7 games and was inches away from winning in 6.

[Black and White]

the 2011 Mavs were easily better than the 13 Spurs.

This Spurs team might be better than the 11 Mavs...I don't know, but definitely not the ****ing 13 Spurs with Parker, Manu, and Green choking their asses off.

I normally agree with everything you post except for this, the 2014 Spurs are far better than the 2011 Mavs

[Kvnzhangyay]

I disagree. Miami in 2011 with a weaker team sweeps Dallas if LeBron plays to his normal standards. (This is obviously not verifiable, just my opinion)

In 2013, San Antonio took a better Heat team to 7 games and was inches away from winning in 6.

Great post sir :cheers:

[DMAVS41]

I disagree. Miami in 2011 with a weaker team sweeps Dallas if LeBron plays to his normal standards. (This is obviously not verifiable, just my opinion)

In 2013, San Antonio took a better Heat team to 7 games and was inches away from winning in 6.

We disagree hugely on better Heat team. I think the 13 Heat were nowhere near as good as the 11 Heat. And Lebron was playing maybe like 5% better in 13 in the finals through the first 5.75 games than he did in 11.

Wade and Bosh were way worse...and so was chalmers actually.

[Indian guy]

the 2011 Mavs were easily better than the 13 Spurs.

This Spurs team might be better than the 11 Mavs...I don't know, but definitely not the ****ing 13 Spurs with Parker, Manu, and Green choking their asses off.

Huh? A couple of plays here and there and Miami would've actually beaten the '11 Mavs with LeBron not even bothering to show up. There's no way they're better than '13 Spurs, much less the '14 Spurs.

[DMAVS41]

I normally agree with everything you post except for this, the 2014 Spurs are far better than the 2011 Mavs

Nah....far better?

They got taken to 7 by the Mavs. Should have gone to 7 against a Thunder team missing Ibaka for two games and with Durant playing nowhere near Dirk 2011 level.

I have no idea which team is better, but far better? Nah...Mavs would have had the clear cut best player and a team of solid vets to match the Spurs.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The '11 Heat were the best version of the 4 that went to the finals, Lebron just shit himself like no other superstar has or since. If he plays anywhere like he did the previous rounds (or '09-10/'12-14), Miami beats Dallas pretty comfortably.

This version of SA is without question the best team they've faced.

[DMAVS41]

Huh? A couple of plays here and there and Miami would've actually beaten the '11 Mavs with LeBron not even bothering to show up. There's no way they're better than '13 Spurs, much less the '14 Spurs.

And the 2013 Heat did beat the 13 Spurs despite Lebron not showing up for the first 5.75 games and Wade/Bosh looking much worse as well.

The 2011 Mavs would have curb stomped both of those injury riddled teams.

LOL at the 11 Mavs nearly losing in 6 to a team with Parker/Manu/Green choking their asses off.

Not happening sir.

The 13 Spurs and 13 Heat are two of the most over-rated teams ever on here. The 13 Spurs lucked out with the WB injury and a nice matchup against the Grizzlies and the Heat once again lucked out playing in a crap conference and not having to beat a 50 win team en route to the finals.

[DMAVS41]

The '11 Heat were the best version of the 4 that went to the finals, Lebron just shit himself like no other superstar has or since. If he plays anywhere like he did the previous rounds (or '09-10/'12-14), Miami beats Dallas pretty comfortably.

This version of SA is without question the best team they've faced.

I agree about the 11 Heat, but don't agree "without question" about this Spurs team.

I think you and other over-rate this current Heat team. They just weren't very good. Played in a shit conference against bums all year...impossible to really tell their strength. Turned out that they weren't very good.

[Black and White]

Nah....far better?

They got taken to 7 by the Mavs. Should have gone to 7 against a Thunder team missing Ibaka for two games and with Durant playing nowhere near Dirk 2011 level.

I have no idea which team is better, but far better? Nah...Mavs would have had the clear cut best player and a team of solid vets to match the Spurs.

I see your point, but I feel like the Spurs team that played in the finals were on a different level than the Mavs series, I'm not trying to take anything away from the 2011 Mavs, but that level of ball movement and teamwork in the finals is some of the best I have seen.

[nba_55]

The '11 Heat were the best version of the 4 that went to the finals, Lebron just shit himself like no other superstar has or since. If he plays anywhere like he did the previous rounds (or '09-10/'12-14), Miami beats Dallas pretty comfortably.

This version of SA is without question the best team they've faced.

I don't get this argument. Why does people act like Lebron wasn't part of the team in 2011? Heat lost that year. How could that team be the best version of Miami?

[DMAVS41]

I see your point, but I feel like the Spurs team that played in the finals were on a different level than the Mavs series, I'm not trying to take anything away from the 2011 Mavs, but that level of ball movement and teamwork in the finals is some of the best I have seen.

You can't give all the credit to the Spurs though. The Heat sucked. Their defense was atrocious.

I really think this is a case of over-rating a 54 win Heat team playing in a joke conference.

I really don't think they were very good. They obviously didn't have another gear that we all assumed they did. Wade looked pathetic the last 3 games and Chalmers fell apart.

This was easily the worst Heat team of the big 3 era...even worse than the injury riddled and slumping 13 Heat.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I agree about the 11 Heat, but don't agree "without question" about this Spurs team.

I think you and other over-rate this current Heat team. They just weren't very good. Played in a shit conference against bums all year...impossible to really tell their strength. Turned out that they weren't very good.

This Spurs team played in a deeper conference than the one in 2011. Were also as driven as any team (maybe in history) to get back to the finals and right the wrong that was 2013.

Not saying they would have an "easy" time beating the '11 Mavs, I just wouldn't bet against them.

How do you think the '11 Heat fair against this years Spurs (assuming Bron plays up to standards)?

[NumberSix]

We disagree hugely on better Heat team. I think the 13 Heat were nowhere near as good as the 11 Heat. And Lebron was playing maybe like 5% better in 13 in the finals through the first 5.75 games than he did in 11.

Wade and Bosh were way worse...and so was chalmers actually.
Come on man.

2011 LeBron was a borderline no show in the finals. 2013 just didn't shoot very well in half the series. That's not a "5% difference"

2011 LeBron averaged 17.8/7/7 ppg on 48%

2013 LeBron averaged 25.3/11/7 on 45%

[Black and White]

You can't give all the credit to the Spurs though. The Heat sucked. Their defense was atrocious.

I really think this is a case of over-rating a 54 win Heat team playing in a joke conference.

I really don't think they were very good. They obviously didn't have another gear that we all assumed they did. Wade looked pathetic the last 3 games and Chalmers fell apart.

This was easily the worst Heat team of the big 3 era...even worse than the injury riddled and slumping 13 Heat.

Actually, from a Heat standpoint, I agree with you, this Heat team was overrated, the whole teams defense sucked, not to mention LeBron would disappear for quarters at a time.

[DMAVS41]

This Spurs team played in a deeper conference than the one in 2011. Were also as driven as any team (maybe in history) to get back to the finals and right the wrong that was 2013.

Not saying they would have an "easy" time beating the '11 Mavs, I just wouldn't bet against them.

How do you think the '11 Heat fair against this years Spurs (assuming Bron plays up to standards)?

The current Spurs might be better...I don't know.

It's hard for me because I think the Heat were pretty shitty actually. I don't think the Spurs played a team as close to as good as the 11 Mavs in the playoffs this year. And they still should have had to survive two game 7's...

I think the finals inflates the greatness of the Spurs. I just saw a crappy Heat team out there with only 1 real player and everyone getting shit on defensively.

[Indian guy]

And the 2013 Heat did beat the 13 Spurs despite Lebron not showing up for the first 5.75 games and

Huh? LeBron's Game 1 & 4 of the '13 Finals itself >>>> his entire '11 series. This myth that he didn't show up until 4th qtr of Game 6 needs to end. The numbers simply do not support it. He was also much better defensively in '13 than '11.


Wade/Bosh looking much worse as well.

Wade actually had a pretty solid finals. The only difference between Bosh is touches. Miami became less reliant on him with LeBron and the supporting cast's improvement. The 2011 team outside the Big 3 on the other hand had role players that would suck even in the D league. Joel Anthony, Mike Bibby, Dampier, Big Z, James Jones....:facepalm


The 2011 Mavs would have curb stomped both of those injury riddled teams.

Again, based on what? Had 2-4 plays gone differently, Miami would've defeated the '11 Mavs with LeBron playing like dog sh!t. On the other hand, it took BOTH LeBron & Wade playing great basketball + superior role players showing up in 3 of their 4 wins for Miami to beat SA. There's no comparison, IMO. Watching both series' and badly wanting LeBron to win, the '13 Spurs scared me a million times more. The '11 Finals were a fluke. Miami had an excellent chance of winning that series even with LeBron not showing up. 3 of their 4 losses all went down to the final possession. The '13 Spurs on the other hand beat the crap out of them in their wins.

[NumberSix]

And the 2013 Heat did beat the 13 Spurs despite Lebron not showing up for the first 5.75 games and Wade/Bosh looking much worse as well.

The 2011 Mavs would have curb stomped both of those injury riddled teams.

LOL at the 11 Mavs nearly losing in 6 to a team with Parker/Manu/Green choking their asses off.

Not happening sir.

The 13 Spurs and 13 Heat are two of the most over-rated teams ever on here. The 13 Spurs lucked out with the WB injury and a nice matchup against the Grizzlies and the Heat once again lucked out playing in a crap conference and not having to beat a 50 win team en route to the finals.
Ok, you're getting into absurd revisionist history now.

LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% in game 4. "not showing up" :rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

Come on man.

2011 LeBron was a borderline no show in the finals. 2013 just didn't shoot very well in half the series. That's not a "5% difference"

2011 LeBron averaged 17.8/7/7 ppg on 48%

2013 LeBron averaged 25.3/11/7 on 45%

I said through the first 5.75 games. Obviously overall including game 7 and the end of game 6...he was way better than just 5%.

My problem with that though is that I don't think the 11 Mavs allow the comeback in game 6. So there is no game 7 to speak of against the Mavs.

That was my point.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I don't get this argument. Why does people act like Lebron wasn't part of the team in 2011? Heat lost that year. How could that team be the best version of Miami?

I mean, whats not to get? Nobody is saying Lebron "wasn't part of the team".. It's just...he choked. IF dude plays like his NORMAL superstar self, that Miami team wins.

People forget, but every game in that series, the margin of error was small....which makes Lebron's performance in that series that much worse.

[DMAVS41]

Huh? LeBron's Game 1 & 4 of the '13 Finals itself >>>> his entire '11 series. This myth that he didn't show up until 4th qtr of Game 6 needs to end. The numbers simply do not support it. He was also much better defensively in '13 than '11.



Wade actually had a pretty solid finals. The only difference between Bosh is touches. Miami became less reliant on him with LeBron and the supporting cast's improvement. The 2011 team outside the Big 3 on the other hand had role players that would suck even in the D league. Joel Anthony, Mike Bibby, Dampier, Big Z, James Jones....:facepalm



Again, based on what? Had 2-4 plays gone differently, Miami would've defeated the '11 Mavs with LeBron playing like dog sh!t. On the other hand, it took BOTH LeBron & Wade playing great basketball + superior role players showing up in 3 of their 4 wins for Miami to beat SA. There's no comparison, IMO. Watching both series' and badly wanting LeBron to win, the '13 Spurs scared me a million times more. The '11 Finals were a fluke. Miami had an excellent chance of winning that series even with LeBron not showing up. 3 of their 4 losses all went down to the final possession. The '13 Spurs on the other hand beat the crap out of them in their wins.


Nah man...the 11 Heat are criminally under-rated here. They played better defense than you are giving them credit for as well.

You could say the exact same thing in reverse about Wade/Bosh in 13...and Lebron was struggling through the first 6 or so games even with his game 4.

[nba_55]

I said through the first 5.75 games. Obviously overall including game 7 and the end of game 6...he was way better than just 5%.

My problem with that though is that I don't think the 11 Mavs allow the comeback in game 6. So there is no game 7 to speak of against the Mavs.

That was my point.

game 1: 18 pts, 18 rbs and 10 assists

game 4: 33 pts, 11 rbs, 4 assists

[DMAVS41]

Ok, you're getting into absurd revisionist history now.

LeBron had 33/11/4 on 60% in game 4. "not showing up" :rolleyes:

And even with that he was at sub 50% TS going into the 4th qtr of game 6 for the series.

And...Wade/Bosh were playing much worse. And so was Chalmers.

And the difference was simple....the 11 Mavs don't let Lebron go off...especially when there is no prime Wade to worry about.

You have to give them Mavs at least some credit for holding down Lebron and winning a series in which Wade was getting points left and right on high efficiency and running around playing great defense.

[JT123]

game 1: 18 pts, 18 rbs and 10 assists

game 4: 33 pts, 11 rbs, 4 assists
Only with Lebron would 18-18-10 be considered a shit game. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

game 1: 18 pts, 18 rbs and 10 assists

game 4: 33 pts, 11 rbs, 4 assists

And he had nice games/moments against Dallas as well.

And Lebron was actually shooting demonstrably worse in that series as well...

Everyone just ignores it because of the 4th in game 6 and game 7.

and again...you have to give the Mavs credit. we took Lebron out of that series by shading and doubling him on nearly every touch. The spurs couldn't do that I guess. Pop hates doing that...and they paid the price for it to end the series.

The Mavs were able to do that with a prime ****ing wade lurking...the Spurs didn't have to worry about that all. Hence...they just weren't as good as the Mavs.

The Mavs vs the 13 Spurs is kind of silly. Parker was injured. Manu was playing horribly. And the Mavs would have the best player in the series, by far, Terry was on fire....and we had a great supporting cast with guys Marion, Kidd, Chandler, and Barea.

There is no way a hobbled Spurs team with Manu slumping and Green going ice cold in the two biggest games is beating the 11 Mavs.

Nor is an injured and slumping Heat team with a declined Wade/Bosh/Chalmers.

[NumberSix]

Nah man...the 11 Heat are criminally under-rated here. They played better defense than you are giving them credit for as well.

You could say the exact same thing in reverse about Wade/Bosh in 13...and Lebron was struggling through the first 6 or so games even with his game 4.
I'll give you that. The 2011 Heat are easily the best defense of the last 4 years.

[NumberSix]

Only with Lebron would 18-18-10 be considered a shit game. :oldlol:
That like a typical all time great Magic Johnson game minus LeBron's defensive impact.

[nba_55]

I mean, whats not to get? Nobody is saying Lebron "wasn't part of the team".. It's just...he choked. IF dude plays like his NORMAL superstar self, that Miami team wins.

People forget, but every game in that series, the margin of error was small....which makes Lebron's performance in that series that much worse.

He choked because he wasn't good enough to take the pressure at that time. 2011 Lebron was the worst version of Lebron that Heat had. He wasn't tough mentally.
If you use the normal superstar self argument for Lebron in 11, then you should also use it for Wade and Bosh in 2012 and 2013. They weren't their normal superstar self those years.

[NumberSix]

And he had nice games/moments against Dallas as well.

And Lebron was actually shooting demonstrably worse in that series as well...

Everyone just ignores it because of the 4th in game 6 and game 7.
He had a tough shooting series. It's not the same thing as "not showing up".

It happens. It's better then the 41% Michael "never missed a shot" Jordan averaged in the 1996 finals. When does anyone accuse Jordan of "not showing up" in the 1996 finals?

[nba_55]

And he had nice games/moments against Dallas as well.

And Lebron was actually shooting demonstrably worse in that series as well...

Everyone just ignores it because of the 4th in game 6 and game 7.

and again...you have to give the Mavs credit. we took Lebron out of that series by shading and doubling him on nearly every touch. The spurs couldn't do that I guess. Pop hates doing that...and they paid the price for it to end the series.

The Mavs were able to do that with a prime ****ing wade lurking...the Spurs didn't have to worry about that all. Hence...they just weren't as good as the Mavs.

The Mavs vs the 13 Spurs is kind of silly. Parker was injured. Manu was playing horribly. And the Mavs would have the best player in the series, by far, Terry was on fire....and we had a great supporting cast with guys Marion, Kidd, Chandler, and Barea.

There is no way a hobbled Spurs team with Manu slumping and Green going ice cold in the two biggest games is beating the 11 Mavs.

Nor is an injured and slumping Heat team with a declined Wade/Bosh/Chalmers.

Why all that text ? You said he didn't show up for 5.75 games. 18/18/10 and 33/11/4 is not showing up and i don't know what it is.

[NumberSix]

Why all that text ? You said he didn't show up for 5.75 games. 18/18/10 and 33/11/4 is not showing up and i don't know what it is.
If you play mediocre in game 5, you were bad all 5 games up to that point.

[nba_55]

And even with that he was at sub 50% TS going into the 4th qtr of game 6 for the series.

And...Wade/Bosh were playing much worse. And so was Chalmers.

And the difference was simple....the 11 Mavs don't let Lebron go off...especially when there is no prime Wade to worry about.

You have to give them Mavs at least some credit for holding down Lebron and winning a series in which Wade was getting points left and right on high efficiency and running around playing great defense.

Battier, Miller, Birdman, Cole, Lebron all played better in 2013. Why do you only mention Wade, Bosh and Chalmers?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He choked because he wasn't good enough to take the pressure at that time. 2011 Lebron was the worst version of Lebron that Heat had. He wasn't tough mentally.
If you use the normal superstar self argument for Lebron in 11, then you should also use it for Wade and Bosh in 2012 and 2013. They weren't their normal superstar self those years.

Yep.. which is why I said the Heat in 2011 were the best version. Both Bosh and Wade were playing at a HIGH level. Not just Lebron circa 2012 and 2013

[nba_55]

If you play mediocre in game 5, you were bad all 5 games up to that point.

It's funny how members in this forum leave and change important aspects of history to fit their agendas. Like some members completely ignore game 1 and game 4 of Lebron in 2013, and they tell that he didn't show up for 5.75 games. Others completely ignores the fact that Lebron was part of the team in 2011 to make it seem like 2011 Heat wasn't the best version of that team. They also ignore all the roles players like Battier, Miller, Birdman, Allen, Cole, Haslem who played huge parts in 2012 and 2013 championships.

[nba_55]

Yep.. which is why I said the Heat in 2011 were the best version. Both Bosh and Wade were playing at a HIGH level. Not just Lebron circa 2012 and 2013

But Lebron and the other roles players apart from Chalmers weren't playing at a high level in 2011. Even Bosh didn't play at a HIGH level in 2011 finals. 18.5 ppg on 41% isn't that good.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But Lebron and the other roles players apart from Chalmers weren't playing at a high level in 2011. Even Bosh didn't play at a HIGH level in 2011 finals. 18.5 ppg on 41% isn't that good.

You posting just his PPG numbers doesn't say very much.

It boils down to this..

LeBron and a few role players playing at a high level

or

Wade and Bosh with one or two role players at a high level

Given the competition, I'm still going Heat in '11

[houston]

2013 heat was the best version of the team while this year team was the worst

[nba_55]

And even with that he was at sub 50% TS going into the 4th qtr of game 6 for the series.

And...Wade/Bosh were playing much worse. And so was Chalmers.

And the difference was simple....the 11 Mavs don't let Lebron go off...especially when there is no prime Wade to worry about.

You have to give them Mavs at least some credit for holding down Lebron and winning a series in which Wade was getting points left and right on high efficiency and running around playing great defense.

I doubt that Mavs zone D would have worked with 3 points shooters like Battier, Miller, Bosh and Chalmers. One of the reasons why Mavs had success against Lebron was because of the bad spacing on that heat team. Joel Anthony wasn't even guarded. Bibby missed all his open shots. Jones couldn't hit anything. On top of all that, that Heat team was running isos. No team offensive system.

[DMAVS41]

Why all that text ? You said he didn't show up for 5.75 games. 18/18/10 and 33/11/4 is not showing up and i don't know what it is.

Because he was only marginally better than he was in 11.

We can rephrase it to whatever you and NumberSix like so we don't argue semantics.

The point, is that Lebron's better play in 13 was not making up for the drop in Wade/Bosh/Chalmers on both ends...and neither were the role players either.

Everyone forgets that Haslem defended Dirk really well in 11. Who the hell is doing that in 13 or this year? Nobody would have a chance...it would have been bbq chicken like Ibaka was in 11 when Dirk destroyed him.

[JT123]

Because he was only marginally better than he was in 11.

We can rephrase it to whatever you and NumberSix like so we don't argue semantics.

The point, is that Lebron's better play in 13 was not making up for the drop in Wade/Bosh/Chalmers on both ends...and neither were the role players either.

Everyone forgets that Haslem defended Dirk really well in 11. Who the hell is doing that in 13 or this year? Nobody would have a chance...it would have been bbq chicken like Ibaka was in 11 when Dirk destroyed him.
:biggums: I think we found Shaq's insideHoops account.

[DMAVS41]

I doubt that Mavs zone D would have worked with 3 points shooters like Battier, Miller, Bosh and Chalmers. One of the reasons why Mavs had success against Lebron was because of the bad spacing on that heat team.

Well, I don't think the Heat could have gone small much against the Mavs.

And Battier was in a terrible shooting slump all playoffs...I don't think the Mavs would have worried much about him. Allen definitely presents some interesting defensive choices, but again...the Mavs just don't have to worry about Wade nearly as much in 13 vs 11.

It would have been somewhat of the same thing. Overload on Lebron and force the ball to Wade's hands and make him beat you. Considering Wade was far less capable of that in 13...I think it's just another defender to stay at home on Allen. Make Wade make shots or finish at the rim over Haywood, Chandler, Dirk, and Mahinmi.

I'll take my chances with that.

And that is just offense. The Heat just objectively were worse defensively in 13.

[nba_55]

You posting just his PPG numbers doesn't say very much.

LeBron and a few role players playing at a high level

or

Wade and Bosh with a one or two role players at a high level

Given the competition, I'm still going Heat in '11

Bosh 2011 finals:
18.5 PPG, 7.3 RBS, 1.0 Assists, 41% FG, 2 TO, 39.4 MPG

That's not high level. He was actually almost as good in 2012.
14.6 PPG, 9.4 RBS, 0.2 Assists, 45% FG, 1 TO, 36.6MPG
When you consider his great D in 2012, he was as good.

2011 Heat team didn't play as a team offensively. They were running isos the whole game. The spacing was bad. Joel and Bibby were starting. The other team didn't even bother guarding them. In 2012, the spacing was better with Battier and Chalmers starting ,the ball was actually moving.

[Collie]

Well, they got their asses kicked embarrassingly. It would look bad for them if they said otherwise.

[DMAVS41]

2013 heat was the best version of the team while this year team was the worst

If you are talking about the win streak Heat with Wade healthy and everyone rolling...then yep.

If you are talking about the Heat team in the playoffs with Wade hurt, half the team slumping, and Bosh playing like a bitch...then nope.

It goes;

1. Healthy 12 team
2. 11 Heat
3. 13 Heat
4. 14 Heat worst by far


The defense slipped in 13 and 14...it slipped more than people seem to realize in 13 and it should have cost them the title. People seem to just ignore this.

Parker/Manu/Green/Neal/Diaw combined to go 13 of 48 in game 6 and the Spurs had to choke the game away to lose. That series should have been over in 6....even with half the Spurs team falling apart.

[DMAVS41]

Bosh 2011 finals:
18.5 PPG, 7.3 RBS, 1.0 Assists, 41% FG, 2 TO, 39.4 MPG

That's not high level. He was actually almost as good in 2012.
14.6 PPG, 9.4 RBS, 0.2 Assists, 45% FG, 1 TO, 36.6MPG
When you consider his great D in 2012, he was as good.

2011 Heat team didn't play as a team offensively. They were running isos the whole game. The spacing was bad. Joel and Bibby were starting. The other team didn't even bother guarding them. In 2012, the spacing was better with Battier and Chalmers starting ,the ball was actually moving.

Regardless of how they played, the 11 Heat were pretty damn good offensively. the 11 Heat finished with the 3rd best offense in the regular season and the 4th best offense in the playoffs.

The 12 Heat had the 8th best regular season offense and the 3rd best playoff offense.

Meh...some of this stuff gets exaggerated. I like the 12 team the best when healthy, but to act like they played offense at a different level is just silly.

[1987_Lakers]

Miami peaked in 2013.

- 66 wins
- 20 something consecutive wins during the year
- They got Birdman
- They got Ray Allen

[DMAVS41]

Miami peaked in 2013.

- 66 wins
- 20 something consecutive wins during the year
- They got Birdman
- They got Ray Allen

In the regular season.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Bosh 2011 finals:
18.5 PPG, 7.3 RBS, 1.0 Assists, 41% FG, 2 TO, 39.4 MPG

That's not high level. He was actually almost as good in 2012.
14.6 PPG, 9.4 RBS, 0.2 Assists, 45% FG, 1 TO, 36.6MPG
When you consider his great D in 2012, he was as good.

2011 Heat team didn't play as a team offensively. They were running isos the whole game. The spacing was bad. Joel and Bibby were starting. The other team didn't even bother guarding them. In 2012, the spacing was better with Battier and Chalmers starting ,the ball was actually moving.

OK.. so why did you initially claim that Bosh and Wade were worse in 2012?

Enough of the semantics. In the playoffs, the Heat's CORE were better in 2011, ergo they were stronger. Do you agree with that? A simple yes or no question..

[1987_Lakers]

Sorry, Birdman and Ray Allen alone make 2013 > 2012.

[houston]

If you are talking about the win streak Heat with Wade healthy and everyone rolling...then yep.

If you are talking about the Heat team in the playoffs with Wade hurt, half the team slumping, and Bosh playing like a bitch...then nope.

It goes;

1. Healthy 12 team
2. 11 Heat
3. 13 Heat
4. 14 Heat worst by far


The defense slipped in 13 and 14...it slipped more than people seem to realize in 13 and it should have cost them the title. People seem to just ignore this.

Parker/Manu/Green/Neal/Diaw combined to go 13 of 48 in game 6 and the Spurs had to choke the game away to lose. That series should have been over in 6....even with half the Spurs team falling apart.


hell 2012 team wasn't healthy during the playoffs. Bosh missed a good portion of the postseason. the 13 team with Ray Allen pick up improve the bench. We seen how that help the team lol.


13 team 66-16 the best record in the NBA with MVP on the squad. That why they was the best team.

[DMAVS41]

hell 2012 team wasn't healthy during the playoffs. Bosh missed a good portion of the postseason. the 13 team with Ray Allen pick up improve the bench. We seen how that help the team lol.


13 team 66-16 the best record in the NBA with MVP on the squad. That why they was the best team.

again, you are going off the regular season. and I think yes...the 13 team was the best regular season team.

the problem is that they dipped dramatically in the playoffs. dramatically.

Wade and Bosh each dropped around 5 points per game. Each dropped over 7% TS as well. Wade, due to his injuries, also saw his defense decline hugely in the playoffs. Bosh went into a shell in the playoffs and really was just bad start to finish....capping it off with a 0 point game 7.

Chalmers dropped 6% TS.
Battier dropped hugely in his efficiency.

Allen's production stayed about the same.

Lebron dropped like 6% TS as well...

Just not the same team...at all.

And what everyone still ignores is that the 13 Heat saw the defense really slip. They squeaked out the title and frankly got lucky that the Spurs went ice cold in game 6. Outside of Duncan/Leonard...the rest of the Spurs went something like 13 of 48 and the Spurs still should have won.

Honestly, that Heat team is just pathetically over-rated. They played cupcakes again to get to the finals and then honestly lucked out with the Parker injury and the Spurs choking. They were not a great team at all.

Mad props to Lebron for getting it done...and individually that is super impressive for him, but that Heat team was just not very good.

[SamuraiSWISH]

2014 Spurs are the best Finals opponent they have faced.

2011 was their most difficult road, competition wise, to a championship. That was probably Miami's best team though as well. They've always had old, vet minimum role players. But LeBron / Wade / Bosh were firing on all cylinders in 2011. Bron was just ass in the Finals, that's all.

2011 Mavericks aren't as great as they've been made out to be. Even with LeBron being nonexistent it was still competitive with Dallas. We really going to act like it wasn't on some levels a flukey win? Not to discredit Dallas, but it's basically true.

2013 Spurs are the second best they have faced in the Finals. D. Wade didn't show up this summer, like he did last year in the Finals. But last year Parker was hobbled, and Ginobili had the worst series ever for his standards.

This year, K. Leonard just improved leaps and bounds. It made all the difference for them, giving the Spurs an added dimension.

[Kargo]

I'm very happy the Spurs won the final but man,this team is getting overrated so hard right now.

The Mavs swept the 2 time defending champs in the Lakers,beat a healthy Thunder team with Durrant/Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden in 5 and beat a fresh,healthy,motivated team in the Heat.

The Spurs beat the Mavs 4-3,they were outplayed in the first two games at home,but somehow managed to get a split.The Mavs lucked out game 3,The Spurs lucked out game 4.

They basically went 2-2 with the Thunder when Ibaka was playing.Who knows how that series could have went if he was healthy?

They played 2 pretty bad games against Miami and 3 fantastic in games 3,4 and 5.

And because they played their best basketball against a non-existent team that completely fell apart in their last three games,that's all people are going to remember.

This dysfunctional Miami team was the worst finals team since probably Cleveland in 2007,so they made the Spurs look a lot better than they were.No bench,Wade and Bosh going awol,Brick showing for a quarter a game,no PG's,no center,Ray Allen becoming useless...this team would not have made it to the west conference final let alone the finals.

[DMAVS41]

2014 Spurs are the best Finals opponent they have faced.

2011 was their most difficult road, competition wise, to a championship. That was probably Miami's best team though as well. They've always had old, vet minimum role players. But LeBron / Wade / Bosh were firing on all cylinders in 2011. Bron was just ass in the Finals, that's all.

2011 Mavericks aren't as great as they've been made out to be. Even with LeBron being nonexistent it was still competitive with Dallas. We really going to act like it wasn't on some levels a flukey win? Not to discredit Dallas, but it's basically true.

2013 Spurs are the second best they have faced in the Finals. D. Wade didn't show up this summer, like he did last year in the Finals. But last year Parker was hobbled, and Ginobili had the worst series ever for his standards.

This year, K. Leonard just improved leaps and bounds. It made all the difference for them, giving the Spurs an added dimension.

You could say the same thing about 13 though. Even with Wade/Bosh/Chalmers all playing worse...they won the series. They didn't just come close to winning...they won the series.

Not sure how you call Dallas beating the Heat kind of flukey...the Mavs won in 6 and dominated game 6.

What everyone seems to ignore is just how bad the Spurs choked...and just how the Heat defense dipped in 13.

You also can't remove the Mavs from getting credit completely for how Lebron played. We presented a tough matchup for him and were able to attack him on both ends.

The 13 Spurs were just not a very good team in the finals. Manu/Parker/Green all collapsed the last 2 games. Neal was average. Splitter played no real role. Diaw didn't have much of an impact either.

I also have to laugh at everyone going nuts about the Spurs...and this isn't taking away from the Spurs, but the Heat weren't good this year. Their defense sucked and Wade is just officially a shell. Chalmers fell apart and Bosh didn't do much either. These finals were a case of just a 1 man team that didn't play any defense at all.

This was a Spurs team that go a real test from the Mavs and honestly needed an Ibaka injury to avoid a game 7.

I just don't see how the 13 Heat beat the 11 Mavs....it really just makes no sense when you think about it. And there is no ****ing way a team with 3 players collapsing in the 2nd half of the series like manu/parker/green did is beating the 11 Mavs either.


What more do you want out of the Mavs? Beat a good Blazers team, swept the title favored Lakers, beat the loaded Thunder in 5, and then beat prime Wade/Lebron/Bosh with a top 3 offense and top 5 defense in 6 in the finals.

Flukey?

No...what was flukey was the Heat's win in 13. Again, that 13 finals was a finals of two worn down teams playing average basketball. I'll say it again...the Spurs should have won game 6 despite Parker/Manu/Green/Neal/Diaw going a combined 13 of 48.

[Kargo]

2014 Spurs are the best Finals opponent they have faced.

2011 was their most difficult road, competition wise, to a championship. That was probably Miami's best team though as well. They've always had old, vet minimum role players. But LeBron / Wade / Bosh were firing on all cylinders in 2011. Bron was just ass in the Finals, that's all.

2011 Mavericks aren't as great as they've been made out to be. Even with LeBron being nonexistent it was still competitive with Dallas. We really going to act like it wasn't on some levels a flukey win? Not to discredit Dallas, but it's basically true.

2013 Spurs are the second best they have faced in the Finals. D. Wade didn't show up this summer, like he did last year in the Finals. But last year Parker was hobbled, and Ginobili had the worst series ever for his standards.

This year, K. Leonard just improved leaps and bounds. It made all the difference for them, giving the Spurs an added dimension.

Absolutely bullshit.

Wade averaged 26,5 points in the finals and Bosh averaged 18,5 points in the final...Lebron averaged 18/7/7,not great but Wade more than made up for it...they lost because the Mavs were by far the best clutch team in the league,a lot better clutch team than this Spurs team.

Lebron averaged 28,2 against the Spurs but Wade and Bosh had 15,2 and 14.

So the big three averaged 62,8 against the Mavs but 57,4 against the Spurs...so that silly argument ''if Lebron played better against the Mavs'' could be used even better if both Wade and Bosh played to their level the games would have looked more like game 1-2 rather than 3-4-5.

That Mavs title was the least flukish win since Shaq and Kobe's Lakers...hey didn't need a game seven in any round,lost only 5 games,had no referee help and played every team they faced healthy and in full rotation.

[DMAVS41]

I'm very happy the Spurs won the final but man,this team is getting overrated so hard right now.

The Mavs swept the 2 time defending champs in the Lakers,beat a healthy Thunder team with Durrant/Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden in 5 and beat a fresh,healthy,motivated team in the Heat.

The Spurs beat the Mavs 4-3,they were outplayed in the first two games at home,but somehow managed to get a split.The Mavs lucked out game 3,The Spurs lucked out game 4.

They basically went 2-2 with the Thunder when Ibaka was playing.Who knows how that series could have went if he was healthy?

They played 2 pretty bad games against Miami and 3 fantastic in games 3,4 and 5.

And because they played their best basketball against a non-existent team that completely fell apart in their last three games,that's all people are going to remember.

This dysfunctional Miami team was the worst finals team since probably Cleveland in 2007,so they made the Spurs look a lot better than they were.No bench,Wade and Bosh going awol,Brick showing for a quarter a game,no PG's,no center,Ray Allen becoming useless...this team would not have made it to the west conference final let alone the finals.

Bingo.

Exactly this.

The Heat saw their defense fall apart this year. They had the 11th best defense in the regular season playing their joke schedule....just not a good team and it's inflating the hell out of the Spurs.

This notion that the 14 Spurs are easily better than the 11 Mavs is just so funny to me. I'm not saying the Mavs are better, but the lack of respect they get is silly.

Dirk would be by far the best player between the two teams. And the Mavs were deep and good with Terry playing by far the best ball of his career.

Dirk/Terry/Chandler/Marion/Kidd/Barea/Stevenson/Haywood/Peja

Duncan/Parker/Manu/Leonard/Diaw/Splitter/Green/Mills/Belli

So similar...acting like the Spurs are way better...especially the more I really reflect on everything is just stupid.

Again, Dirk would be by far the best player out of the two teams.