Who Was Better In The Finals? LeBron or Duncan?

[NumberSix]

I don't think any reasonable person can honestly believe Duncan was a better player in this series than LeBron was. It was a team win. Duncan was ok. That's about it.

Knowing that LeBron was actually better than Duncan, why is a worse player getting a ring anything special as far as individual comparison goes?

If a guy that didn't win was better, what does the team accomplish even matter in regard to the individual comparison?

[russwest0]

Tim Duncan.

[SouBeachTalents]

I never understood this mentality either. I'd have more respect for someone playing great and losing than someone playing like shlt and being carried by his team to a championship.

[navy]

Too much logic.

Let me simplify it for you.

5 > 2.

[Milbuck]

I never understood this mentality either. I'd have more respect for someone playing great and losing than someone playing like shlt and being carried by his team to a championship.
Except that TD didn't play like shit. He put up 15/10/2/1 on 61% TS while being his team's interior defensive anchor...at 38 years old.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Too much logic.

Let me simplify it for you.

5 > 2.

Your logic is pretty bad then because he's only talking about this finals?

[Warfan]

I doubt rational people are actually gonna bring up this series to point to the fact that Duncan>Bron. There's already enough evidence for that...

[Kvnzhangyay]

I doubt rational people are actually gonna bring up this series to point to the fact that Duncan>Bron. There's already enough evidence for that...

Dominance, no, career, yes

[DatAsh]

I don't think any reasonable person can honestly believe Duncan was a better player in this series than LeBron was. It was a team win. Duncan was ok. That's about it.

Knowing that LeBron was actually better than Duncan, why is a worse player getting a ring anything special as far as individual comparison goes?

If a guy that didn't win was better, what does the team accomplish even matter in regard to the individual comparison?

Lebron was the better player, but both guys improved their resume imo.

[SouBeachTalents]

Except that TD didn't play like shit. He put up 15/10/2/1 on 61% TS while being his team's interior defensive anchor...at 38 years old.

Didn't say Duncan's name, did I? I was speaking in general, in regards to all team sports

[tgan3]

I don't think any reasonable person can honestly believe Duncan was a better player in this series than LeBron was. It was a team win. Duncan was ok. That's about it.

Knowing that LeBron was actually better than Duncan, why is a worse player getting a ring anything special as far as individual comparison goes?

If a guy that didn't win was better, what does the team accomplish even matter in regard to the individual comparison?

Wins are all that matter, nothing else does. Kawhi Leonard playing 3rd fiddle >>> Kemba Walker stat pumping in a bobcats team .

[Milbuck]

Didn't say Duncan's name, did I? I was speaking in general, in regards to all team sports
My bad, shouldn't have assumed you meant TD just because of the topic.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think any reasonable person can honestly believe Duncan was a better player in this series than LeBron was. It was a team win. Duncan was ok. That's about it.

Knowing that LeBron was actually better than Duncan, why is a worse player getting a ring anything special as far as individual comparison goes?

If a guy that didn't win was better, what does the team accomplish even matter in regard to the individual comparison?

Would matter if Duncan was in his prime/peak like Lebron.

Anything Duncan does at this point is gravy...you grade players on what they do at certain points of their career. When Lebron is 38...if he has a 18/8/5 finals like Duncan just did and wins...he'll get a legacy boost despite him clearly being a worse player than he once was.

why?

because part of how good a player is at the game of basketball is how well they age and how well they play in different stages of their careers. Duncan already had an absurdly long prime/peak...

[NumberSix]

Would matter if Duncan was in his prime/peak like Lebron.

Anything Duncan does at this point is gravy...you grade players on what they do at certain points of their career. When Lebron is 38...if he has a 18/8/5 finals like Duncan just did and wins...he'll get a legacy boost despite him clearly being a worse player than he once was.

why?

because part of how good a player is at the game of basketball is how well they age and how well they play in different stages of their careers. Duncan already had an absurdly long prime/peak...
Why is it that we give 0 credit to LeBron for being the best player of the 2014 finals? Why doesn't that do anything for his "legacy"? Yet, if LeBron played worse but the other Heat players played better enough to win, it would somehow be a giant gold star added to LeBron's legacy. LeBron gets bumped up another notch because of how well other people played? What sense does this make?

[pauk]

Unfortunately there is no way to logically argue against that... everybody knows that championships alone in a team sport like this in reality is a very faulty way to try and evaluate one individuals greatness especially compared to others who actually were much more prominent players... Its only the context of the championship (year, playoffs performance/impact/role etc.) run itself from that individual player that can & should be used... this is not tennis/1vs1 where a championship has the same signifance to ones "ranking" individually for anybody, where you dont need any context at all, where you can use rings strictly as numbers, 7>6, 5>4, 4>3, just like that, in this setting it instantly means you were 100% responsible for that win and that you were the best player that year as you literally beat out anybody you faced, one by one....

But in basketball, you can be the greatest player to ever lace em up, average 50 points and/or 30 rebounds and/or triple double and be the greatest defender of all time and literally toy with ANY individual player that guards you... and STILL never win a championship.... this is because in a team game you can control only what YOU can do individually, you cant control how well your teammates think, pass, rebound, defend, shoot, dribble etc. that is completely out of your hands....

[NumberSix]

Unfortunately there is no way to logically argue against that... everybody knows that championships alone in a team sport like this in reality is a very faulty way to try and evaluate one individuals greatness especially compared to others who actually were much more prominent players... Its only the context of the championship (year, playoffs performance/impact/role etc.) run itself from that individual player that can & should be used... this is not tennis/1vs1 where a championship has the same signifance to ones "ranking" individually for anybody, where you dont need any context at all, where you can use rings strictly as numbers, 7>6, 5>4, 4>3, just like that, because it means you were 100% responsible for that win and that you were the best player that year as you literally beat out anybody you faced, one by one....
LeBron is a 10. Miami was like a 10 and four 2s. SAS is a 7 and four 6s.

A 7 and four 6s beats a 10 and four 2s, but we don't pretend the 7 is greater than the 10.

[pauk]

LeBron is a 10. Miami was like a 10 and four 2s. SAS is a 7 and four 6s.

A 7 and four 6s beats a 10 and four 2s, but we don't pretend the 7 is greater than the 10.

You know, i am trying to find something wrong with that logic, but it only makes more sense the more you think about it.

[Just2McFly]

Lebron was the better player, but both guys improved their resume imo.
+1

[NumberSix]

You know, i am trying to find something wrong with that logic, but it only makes more sense the more you think about it.
Real talk.

[TheGreatDeraj]

Why is it that we give 0 credit to LeBron for being the best player of the 2014 finals? Why doesn't that do anything for his "legacy"? Yet, if LeBron played worse but the other Heat players played better enough to win, it would somehow be a giant gold star added to LeBron's legacy. LeBron gets bumped up another notch because of how well other people played? What sense does this make?

Lebron is by far the best player on the planet. He refuses to act like it though.

To answer the bold, it's because he didn't dominate like he was suppose to. I can't count how many times my friends and I(all rooting for the Spurs) could not believe that Lebron wasn't attacking when the Spurs could not stop him. We were yelling at him to attack. He rarely forced the attack against Leonard, Green, Diaw, parker when they were guarding him

So many times when the Heat needed a run and Lebron had a mismatch against Parker and he would pass to Bosh or Haslem JUST LIKE POPOVICH PLANNED

Lebron refused to take over and dominate the game when he is the most dominate player in the game and instead walked right into Popovich's defensive gameplan(just like in 2012, but this time no Ray Allen)

[jlip]

Lebron was the better player, but both guys improved their resume imo.

This post was far too rational for ISH.

BTW...No one player from the Spurs had to be great for the team to win.

[AlphaWolf24]

Unfortunately there is no way to logically argue against that... everybody knows that championships alone in a team sport like this in reality is a very faulty way to try and evaluate one individuals greatness especially compared to others who actually were much more prominent players... Its only the context of the championship (year, playoffs performance/impact/role etc.) run itself from that individual player that can & should be used... this is not tennis/1vs1 where a championship has the same signifance to ones "ranking" individually for anybody, where you dont need any context at all, where you can use rings strictly as numbers, 7>6, 5>4, 4>3, just like that, in this setting it instantly means you were 100% responsible for that win and that you were the best player that year as you literally beat out anybody you faced, one by one....

But in basketball, you can be the greatest player to ever lace em up, average 50 points and/or 30 rebounds and/or triple double and be the greatest defender of all time and literally toy with ANY individual player that guards you... and STILL never win a championship.... this is because in a team game you can control only what YOU can do individually, you cant control how well your teammates think, pass, rebound, defend, shoot, dribble etc. that is completely out of your hands....


that's why Lebron quit on his 65 win team with HCA .....and hand picked another team and joined 2 other superstars all while being their primes...

as the best player in teh NBA...you deserve the blame for bieng on a stacked team and still getting molly whopped.

[unbreakable]

duncan was dominant in the post LIKE A MAN

lebron has the opportunity to DOMINATE in the post, but he chose to play lebron ball, iso on the perimeter.... horrible display of basketball

duncan was the defensive ANCHOR.. lebron didnt do much on defense this series and he also didnt bring it in the 4th while Duncan dominated late in games on both sides of the ball

[Dresta]

Why is it that we give 0 credit to LeBron for being the best player of the 2014 finals? Why doesn't that do anything for his "legacy"? Yet, if LeBron played worse but the other Heat players played better enough to win, it would somehow be a giant gold star added to LeBron's legacy. LeBron gets bumped up another notch because of how well other people played? What sense does this make?He will get credit for him. Getting to the finals helps his legacy rather than harms it. It's only because the finals was an annihilation and is fresh in everyone's minds that Bron is getting smashed by fanboys of other guys.

At the least these finals have helped make Bron's finals averages better, they're as good as Wade's now:

lebron: 24.3p 8.8r 6.4a 3.8to 0.6b 1.8s 54.6% ts
wade: 23.9p 5.7r 4.3a 2.9to 1.0b 1.9s 55.4% ts


and much better than Kobe's:

kobe: 25.3p 5.7r 5.1a 3.3to 0.9b 1.8s 50.8% ts


:roll:

[Jlamb47]

He will get credit for him. Getting to the finals helps his legacy rather than harms it. It's only because the finals was an annihilation and is fresh in everyone's minds that Bron is getting smashed by fanboys of other guys.

At the least these finals have helped make Bron's finals averages better, they're as good as Wade's now:

lebron: 24.3p 8.8r 6.4a 3.8to 0.6b 1.8s 54.6% ts
wade: 23.9p 5.7r 4.3a 2.9to 1.0b 1.9s 55.4% ts


and much better than Kobe's:

kobe: 25.3p 5.7r 5.1a 3.3to 0.9b 1.8s 50.8% ts


:roll:


them stats dont mean sh1t when they lose
kobe still won more

but lebron was the best player on the floor, and played very well, but he was passive imo, he should of looked to score more

[Straight_Ballin]

LeBron is a 10. Miami was like a 10 and four 2s. SAS is a 7 and four 6s.

A 7 and four 6s beats a 10 and four 2s, but we don't pretend the 7 is greater than the 10.

Here's the problem with your logic.

You can't get to the finals, even in the East, with a 10 and four 2's. It's too much of a team sport to accomplish such a feat. So essentially what you are saying is that once the Heat got to the finals, the Spurs REDUCED the heat to being a 10 and four 2's. And who was at the anchor of the defensive scheme created by Pop used to force that REDUCTION?

Duncan

On this premise, the Heat were stacked. (That's why they are the defending 2x champs and in the finals in the first place.)

When they got to the finals, they were still stacked, but the coaching of Pop and the players actually playing to that level of superior coaching essentially made the Heat look like an 8 and four 2's.

Was Duncan at 38 years old better than Bron in the series? No. But Duncan's impact on the team and the end result justifies saying that the extra ring puts him up 3 more rings than what Bron has, and that's really all there is too it.

[NumberSix]

Here's the problem with your logic.

You can't get to the finals, even in the East, with a 10 and four 2's. It's too much of a team sport to accomplish such a feat. So essentially what you are saying is that once the Heat got to the finals, the Spurs REDUCED the heat to being a 10 and four 2's. And who was at the anchor of the defensive scheme created by Pop used to force that REDUCTION?

Duncan

On this premise, the Heat were stacked. (That's why they are the defending 2x champs and in the finals in the first place.)

When they got to the finals, they were still stacked, but the coaching of Pop and the players actually playing to that level of superior coaching essentially made the Heat look like an 8 and four 2's.

Was Duncan at 38 years old better than Bron in the series? No. But Duncan's impact on the team and the end result justifies saying that the extra ring puts him up 3 more rings than what Bron has, and that's really all there is too it.
Spurs win this series with or without Duncan.

[Straight_Ballin]

Spurs win this series with or without Duncan.

I disagree. Duncan was destroying in the post, while playing great D.

[DonDadda59]

Bron's finals are the paradigm for somewhat misleading stats. Dude only played great for 1 quarter every game and was either a ghost or absolute trash the rest of the time. He was a sieve defensively and a turnover machine. Scottie Pippen had more FGA than him in a finals series while playing second fiddle.

Duncan was just as efficient (which is all Bron really had going for him) while having much greater impact defensively.

[Inactive]

Bron's finals are the paradigm for somewhat misleading stats. Dude only played great for 1 quarter every game and was either a ghost or absolute trash the rest of the time. He was a sieve defensively and a turnover machine. Scottie Pippen had more FGA than him in a finals series while playing second fiddle.

Duncan was just as efficient (which is all Bron really had going for him) while having much greater impact defensively.He scored 28 ppg in just 1 quarter per game? :eek: GOAT!

[NumberSix]

I disagree. Duncan was destroying in the post, while playing great D.
You think Duncan was the difference between a 5 game blowout series win for the Spurs and a series loss? Really?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmnwwg7oFs1qgmd19.gif

[Quizno]

lebron did a great job this finals of showing up big for one quarter and then playing well below his standards while his team got blown out

[DonDadda59]

He scored 28 ppg in just 1 quarter per game? :eek: GOAT!

:rolleyes:

Game 5: 17 points first quarter. 14 points over the next 3.

Game 4: 19 points in the third quarter. 9 points the other 3.

Game 3: 14 points in the first quarter. 8 points over the next 3.

Game 2: Only Game Bron played well throughout. Also the only game MIA won.

Game 1: 12 pts in the 3rd. 13 the rest of the game *LeCramp Game*

TOs for the series: 19

Assists for the series: 20

[Soundwave]

So the Heat got waxed by a Spurs teams where Duncan wasn't even that huge of a factor?

Which is it LeBron-stans? You look like b*tches either way.

[K Xerxes]

Bron's finals are the paradigm for somewhat misleading stats. Dude only played great for 1 quarter every game and was either a ghost or absolute trash the rest of the time. He was a sieve defensively and a turnover machine. Scottie Pippen had more FGA than him in a finals series while playing second fiddle.

Duncan was just as efficient (which is all Bron really had going for him) while having much greater impact defensively.

Misleading perhaps, but still the best player, no?

Anyway, if Lebron wasn't better than a 38 year old Duncan, we'd really have to evaluate our views on Lebron. Lebron played well, not great, not terrible. The Miami team was just outmatched and beaten by the better team, simply as that.

[DonDadda59]

Misleading perhaps, but still the best player, no?


For game 2 maybe. LeCramp game... don't need to get into that. Games 3-5 were all about the FMVP, the other SF.

23.7 PPG/ 9.3 REB/ 2.3 APG/ 2 SPG/ 2 BPG (68.6 FG%, 53.8 3FG%, 84.2 FT%)

:bowdown:

[Rondo]

LeBron's highs were of course higher than Duncan's but his low's were also much lower. Didn't he have more TO's than assists?

[Solefade]

You think Duncan was the difference between a 5 game blowout series win for the Spurs and a series loss? Really?




people ITT and in general still don't acknowledge the fact that this heat team way under performed in these finals and the loss is solely lebron so of course no one is going to acknowledge that lebron was actually the best player in this series. he had 51 more points than the next guy with the most points in this series while getting double and triple teamed as soon as he stepped inside the 3pt line

[Inactive]

For game 2 maybe. LeCramp game... don't need to get into that. Games 3-5 were all about the FMVP, the other SF.

23.7 PPG/ 9.3 REB/ 2.3 APG/ 2 SPG/ 2 BPG (68.6 FG%, 53.8 3FG%, 84.2 FT%)

:bowdown:
28/8/4 .571/.519 > 18/6/2 .612/.579.

Kawhi shot out of his mind, and still wasn't near Lebron.

[robert de niro]

So the Heat got waxed by a Spurs teams where Duncan wasn't even that huge of a factor?

Which is it LeBron-stans? You look like b*tches either way.
this basically :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

28/8/4 .571/.519 > 18/6/2 .612/.579.

Kawhi shot out of his mind, and still wasn't near Lebron.

Kiwi shat all over Bron's lawn from games 3-5 en route to winning FMVP.

And let's not forget that he was the Spurs 4th option.

:lol

[rmt]

Spurs win this series with or without Duncan.

Please watch Lebron's answer (0:52 to 1:50) to what is it about Spurs' defense that makes it difficult for an individual to put up a lot of points on them.

http://www.nba.com/video/?ls=iref:nba:gnav

Basically, his answer is Duncan - one of the very best at protecting the rim.

Don't see how Spurs win this series playing only Splitter, Diaw and Bonner(?). And without Duncan's 15.4 pts (56.9%FG), 10 rebounds, 2 assists and 1 blk? I would say Spurs could do without Parker or Manu before Duncan. Maybe not Leonard as there's no one else to guard Lebron.

[Harison]

Its fashionable to laugh at Lebron (I do it too :D), but there is no question he was the best player on the floor.

Whether Duncan was the best on his own team, is an open question, Kawhi deserved FMVP IMO. Spurs are perfect example of a team play, they had like 3 more guys who were almost as worthy of FMVP.

[mehyaM24]

lebron didnt have the luxury of having one of his teammates carry him

lebron > kawhi > duncan

[Anaximandro1]

1) Who Was Better In The Finals?

LeBron


2) why is a worse player getting a ring anything special as far as individual comparison goes?

Timmy had a great season for a man of his age; led the Spurs in almost every statistical category during the playoffs. He averaged 18/10 in WCF and 15/10 in the NBA Finals... Duncan was the best big man on the court in those series by a considerable margin.


It's been a long journey.

-Pop had a coaching record in the NBA of (17 - 47) when Duncan joined the Spurs in 1997.

-Pop was going to be fired after the Spurs (6-8) got destroyed by the Jazz (11-2) early in the 1998-99 season (The Jazz were the Spurs daddy in the 90s)

Avery Johnson, David Robinson and Tim Duncan remained loyal to Pop ... they saved Pop's coaching career in Houston.

A few weeks later, Duncan destroyed the Jazz, the Lakers and the Knicks ... The Spurs won their first championship.

Tim has the utmost respect for his teammates. He didn't join the Magic in 2000 ... it was the easy way.

Duncan + Grant Hill + T-Mac in the East vs Duncan + aging Robinson in the Shaq/Kobe conference ??

He stayed, competed and won another title in 2003 after destroying the Shaq/Kobe Lakers again.

The Spurs have won five NBA championships in three different decades ... the best franchise in the post-Michael Jordan era.

Duncan is now reaping what he has sown since 1997.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Lebron was easily the best player in the series. The only people saying otherwise are Kobetards and bitter Jordan Stans who pass their day by watching his highlight videos.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

2003
1999
2005

2012
2007
2013 Bran
2014 Bran
2013 Timmy


2014 Timmy







2011 Bran
2007 Bran

[TheCorporation]

Lebron is by far the best player on the planet. He refuses to act like it though.

To answer the bold, it's because he didn't dominate like he was suppose to. I can't count how many times my friends and I(all rooting for the Spurs) could not believe that Lebron wasn't attacking when the Spurs could not stop him. We were yelling at him to attack. He rarely forced the attack against Leonard, Green, Diaw, parker when they were guarding him

So many times when the Heat needed a run and Lebron had a mismatch against Parker and he would pass to Bosh or Haslem JUST LIKE POPOVICH PLANNED

Lebron refused to take over and dominate the game when he is the most dominate player in the game and instead walked right into Popovich's defensive gameplan(just like in 2012, but this time no Ray Allen)

28/8/4/2 on 57% is probably just about as good as we can expect, considering his supporting cast, and his opponent. What do you realistically want out of LBJ? 32/8/4/2 on 53% maybe?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LeBron had an alltime great finals series for a perimeter player and would have had even better stats had they not sabotaged their AC.
he was by far the best player in those finals and should have won finals MVP.
a player scoring 17PPG and barely any assists wins FMVP??:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[riseagainst]

28/8/4/2 on 57% is probably just about as good as we can expect, considering his supporting cast, and his opponent. What do you realistically want out of LBJ? 32/8/4/2 on 53% maybe?

so if his teammates are playing bad, wouldn't it be on the leader of the team to pull them through? Maybe he should decide to take over and just drop 50. But i think he's just too conservative about his FG%.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

28/8/4/2 on 57% is probably just about as good as we can expect, considering his supporting cast, and his opponent. What do you realistically want out of LBJ? 32/8/4/2 on 53% maybe?
he wouldn have had 31/9/4 on 58% if they didnt sabotage the AC in game 1. Heat would not have won since D-Wade is such a joke ass nikka but Lebron would have not just had all time but legendary stats:coleman:

[riseagainst]

he wouldn have had 31/9/4 on 58% if they didnt sabotage the AC in game 1. Heat would not have won since D-Wade is such a joke ass nikka but Lebron would have not just had all time but legendary stats:coleman:

and he's back.

:bowdown: