This guy scored 10,000 more points than Kareem

[sammichoffate]

http://www.euroleague.net/rs/36322/26bd4481-b158-4149-974c-6a6a43c9d5e0/f1e/filename/oscar-schmidt-brazil.jpg
The true GOAT :bowdown: Also, ESPN can do documentaries better than their main jobs :lol

[navy]

Who?

[zoom17]

Who?

[Johnny Jones]

Where?

[fpliii]

Oscar. The 5th HOFer (along with Hakeem, MJ, Barkley, Stockton) from the 84 draft.

[sammichoffate]

Watch the 84 Draft documentary if you're wondering who he is. If you're too lazy, then google greatest Brazilian Basketball Player ever :cheers:

[Fudge]

Oscar Schmidt :bowdown:

[sammichoffate]

Oscar. The 5th HOFer (along with Hakeem, MJ, Barkley, Stockton) from the 84 draft.Repped :cheers:

[zoom17]

He played from 1974-2003:biggums:

[sammichoffate]

He played from 1974-2003:biggums:Retired at 45 :bowdown:

[scandisk_]

watched the documentary :rockon:

da black mamba meeting oscar. win!

[bigkingsfan]

Saw him in the 96 olympics, not impress.

[sick_brah07]

Amazing how little people know about the history of basketball on a global scale

[Brook(lyn)Lopez]

He was pretty good, didn't have the cahones to play in the NBA though so whatever.

[Round Mound]

Saw him in the 96 olympics, not impress.

That was passed his prime and he still performed well. Oscar is one of the greatest pure shooters of all time. The 80s was his Prime.

[AintNoSunshine]

Oscar Robertson:bowdown:

[kkb_12]

Amazing player - one of the best pure shooters ever.... Almost 50,000 points and for the first 10 years of his career, FIBA did not have three point line... Imagine Peja Stojakovic at his peak - Schmidt was that good, and stayed at that level for more than 15 years.

[Cocaine80s]

Who?
lol this

[Smook A.]

Why didn't this guy play in the NBA? He look like a total boss in his highlights

[sammichoffate]

He didn't enter the NBA in 1984 because he didn't want to give up his National Team eligibility at the time. It wasn't until 1989 that the restriction was lifted.

[Round Mound]

Why didn't this guy play in the NBA? He look like a total boss in his highlights

He was drafted in the 1984 draft (the goat draft) but he chose to play for his country instead of the NBA. Back then the NBA did not allow foreign players to play for their own countries or some thing of like that.

[played0ut]

"Any shot is a good shot."


Lol the guy had the ultimate chucker mentality (though it would go in).

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


His defense left a bit to be desired. He said something along the lines of, "Some people's jobs is to shoot. Others to defend."





But the guy practiced 8 ****ing hours a day.

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/09/07/oscar-schmidt-and-what-could-have-been/

[kkb_12]

Late 80's and early 90's top players in Europe (Italy and Real Madrid in Spain) could earn 2.5 million $US net. In NBA, in 1990. Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Ewing, Barkley, Malone were between 2.5 and 3 million $US - gross.

[MadeFromDust]

I don't see a D in his name

[GimmeThat]

Wilt gets ranked in the top 10 for most people. Some would even argue top 5.

so I don't see the big deal with this, besides yes, the lack of recognition on basketball talent on the global scale.

[deja vu]

Easy to score that many points against bums.

[Psileas]

Wilt gets ranked in the top 10 for most people. Some would even argue top 5.

so I don't see the big deal with this, besides yes, the lack of recognition on basketball talent on the global scale.

Uh, Wilt is easily top 5, let alone top 10. It doesn't take a genius to realize how special he was, unless you are impressed by what Robert Horry has achieved.

As for Oscar, props to his durability. The guy was having 30+ ppg seasons at 40+ and that's tough as hell to achieve at any level, even in Brazil.

But, he didn't have 10,000 more points than Kareem. These are only Kareem's NBA regular season totals. Add playoffs, college and HS and he comes much closer. Not to mention that the career point sum of FIBA players includes friendly National Team games. Hey, let's also start counting Kareem's points in the NBA pre-season as well, his NBA vs ABA games, not to mention that Kareem played a total of 0 games with his National Team, and even if he hadn't boycotted the '68 Olympics, this is pretty much the only tournament he would have participated in.

[ErhnamDjinn]

He was pretty good, didn't have the cahones to play in the NBA though so whatever.
more like due to the old rules he would have been ineligable to play for his national team if had gone pro. He would rather have played for Brazil hence he skipped the NBA. dude was a insane scorer. :bowdown:

[SOD 21]

That was passed his prime and he still performed well. Oscar is one of the greatest pure shooters of all time. The 80s was his Prime.


Oscar Schmidt would've been 38 years old during those Olympics in 1996, so definitely passed his prime.

I remember that he averaged 42 points per game over seven games in the 1984 summer Olympics and Los Angeles. He was one of the greatest pure shooters in basketball and was an explosive offense of player, obviously.

He definitely could have played and been successful in the NBA, although it was always disappointing that he refused to do so. I always thought he was scared that his role would be diminished on an NBA team and he did want to take part in that.

[Euroleague]

He didn't enter the NBA in 1984 because he didn't want to give up his National Team eligibility at the time. It wasn't until 1989 that the restriction was lifted.

Not until 1991 I think. They changed the rules in 1989.

The first time you could play as an NBA player in EuroBasket for example, if I remember right, was 1991.

First time in Olympics was 1992.

First time in Basketball World Cup was 1994.

So it was actually quite a bit later than 1989.

[fpliii]

Not until 1991 I think. They changed the rules in 1989.

The first time you could play as an NBA player in EuroBasket for example if I remember right was 1991.

First time in Olympics was 1992.

First time in Basketball World Cup was 1994.

So it was actually quite a bit later than 1989.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm wondering if you know where I can find older European stats? In particular, I'm looking for Sabonis' domestic league and continental numbers.

[Euroleague]

Late 80's and early 90's top players in Europe (Italy and Real Madrid in Spain) could earn 2.5 million $US net. In NBA, in 1990. Magic, Jordan, Olajuwon, Ewing, Barkley, Malone were between 2.5 and 3 million $US - gross.

I think that's a low ball figure.

Sabonis and Petrovic both got offered $5 million by Panathinaikos and it's been confirmed in both cases it was true they were offered that. We are talking mid 90s.

Dominique got $3.5 million from Panathinaikos in the mid 90s. And I think Kukoc was making something like in Italy and Sabonis the same in Spain.

Also, Galis and Giannakis were making around $3 million in Aris and Panathinaikos.

So $2.5 million is actually a low ball figure.

With that being said, Oscar was never playing in big clubs. The biggest club he played in was Valladolid, and granted in that time they did spend a lot and pay a lot to some big stars.

But it would be nothing compared to the big clubs in Spain, Greece, and Italy even then. And most of his career he played in small clubs.

From what I remember hearing, he was usually making like half the budget of the club though.

A reference point would be Galis in the mid 80s was said to be the highest paid player in Europe in Aris, when he was making $1 million net. I don't know if that is true or not, but that's been a claim.

So, even though actually the pay was even higher thanwhat you listed, I don't think Oscar ever got anything close to that. Since his prime was coincided with Galis, and he was playing in small clubs in Italy that did not even play in Euroleague.

And then later when the pay got really huge, he was not in those kinds of clubs that paid that.

[GimmeThat]

Uh, Wilt is easily top 5.


Give me a top 5 list, and who you are leaving OUT of the top 5 before you tell me Wilt is "EASILY" top 5.

[r0drig0lac]

points record was beaten by playing club Flamengo (largest fan club in the world) :rockon:

[Euroleague]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'm wondering if you know where I can find older European stats? In particular, I'm looking for Sabonis' domestic league and continental numbers.

Well, tell me specifically what league and what season you are looking for, and I will try to find it for you.

Keep in mind though that because FIBA was an amateur organization before (they voted in 1989 to change it, but not in effect until 1991) 1991, they did not file as professional companies until then.

So they don't recognize the stats before then. So just as an example,

Spanish League only recognizes stats from 1991. Same with Greek League. Same with the old FIBA Euroleague (the league called Euroleague now, but when FIBA owned it).

They only recognize the stats of the professional leagues. Because none of those leagues had to become professional organizations until they changed those rules.

So since they changed the rules and said they had to be professional, then they became different companies, leagues, organizations, etc.

So, a lot of them are only keeping stats from 1991 as official. And unfortunately, none of the stats from before that are listed anywhere. It's not that the stats before that don't exist, it's just impossible to find them anywhere.

So, I should be able to find you what you are looking for, if it is not long ago. Italian League is pretty good though, they have a database that goes from back into the 80s.

But the other leagues really don't.

So I can show you where Sabonis's official league stats would be for Euroleague in the 90s, and Spanish League in the 90s. But before that it's doubtful.

[Euroleague]

Uh, Wilt is easily top 5, let alone top 10. It doesn't take a genius to realize how special he was, unless you are impressed by what Robert Horry has achieved.

As for Oscar, props to his durability. The guy was having 30+ ppg seasons at 40+ and that's tough as hell to achieve at any level, even in Brazil.

But, he didn't have 10,000 more points than Kareem. These are only Kareem's NBA regular season totals. Add playoffs, college and HS and he comes much closer. Not to mention that the career point sum of FIBA players includes friendly National Team games. Hey, let's also start counting Kareem's points in the NBA pre-season as well, his NBA vs ABA games, not to mention that Kareem played a total of 0 games with his National Team, and even if he hadn't boycotted the '68 Olympics, this is pretty much the only tournament he would have participated in.

You could not count high school or college games for Kareem. Only NBA playoff games and games with senior men's Team USA.

That's all this is.

A players career professional FIBA scoring total is his career PROFESSIONAL senior men's club points, combined with his career senior men's national team points.

So high school and college games for Kareem would not count, neither would games with junior USA teams if there were any. Only NBA, NBA playoffs, senior USA teams would count.

Also, they don't actually count all national team games played in those stats. That's not true. They only count officially sanctioned games. So that's not actually all of the friendly games.

So actually, what you could do is add NBA playoff games and Team USA senior games for Kareem or whatever. That would be it.

You are exaggerating all that other stuff.

Otherwise, then you could say well every game Oscar played in youth career (probably hundreds in club games and national team games) would also count.


Also, why are you implying that the club stats from Europe include preseason games? They only include regular season and playoff games. No preseason games are ever counted in any player's career points totals in European leagues.

[Euroleague]

Easy to score that many points against bums.

His career average against Team USA at the Olympics was something like 28 points a game.

Yes, indeed, it is very easy to score a lot of points against bums.

[Euroleague]

points record was beaten by playing club Flamengo (largest fan club in the world) :rockon:

Another bit of trivia for you, Oscar said Spanoulis is one of the best players he has ever seen.

[fpliii]

Well, tell me specifically what league and what season you are looking for, and I will try to find it for you.

Keep in mind though that because FIBA was an amateur organization before (they voted in 1989 to change it, but not in effect until 1991) 1991, they did not file as professional companies until then.

So they don't recognize the stats before then. So just as an example,

Spanish League only recognizes stats from 1991. Same with Greek League. Same with the old FIBA Euroleague (the league called Euroleague now, but when FIBA owned it).

They only recognize the stats of the professional leagues. Because none of those leagues had to become professional organizations until they changed those rules.

So since they changed the rules and said they had to be professional, then they became different companies, leagues, organizations, etc.

So, a lot of them are only keeping stats from 1991 as official. And unfortunately, none of the stats from before that are listed anywhere. It's not that the stats before that don't exist, it's just impossible to find them anywhere.

So, I should be able to find you what you are looking for, if it is not long ago. Italian League is pretty good though, they have a database that goes from back into the 80s.

But the other leagues really don't.

So I can show you where Sabonis's official league stats would be for Euroleague in the 90s and Spanish League in the 90s. But before that it's doubtful.
Thanks for the response.

I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking for with regards to Sabonis. I was just looking to see his mpg/ppg/rpg/bpg/FG% for each season in his domestic and international careers (to see how he was before/after injuries, what he was like in his prime by the numbers).

Did the level of competition change when they became professional (maybe because there was as much or more focus by on club compared to national teams, though I'm speculating)? Or do you think it's fine to compare players from before or after?

[Psileas]

Give me a top 5 list, and who you are leaving OUT of the top 5 before you tell me Wilt is "EASILY" top 5.

Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Jordan
Magic

Now, I'm expecting your own top-10, since you look surprised that people put Wilt in their top-10...

[Psileas]

A players career professional FIBA scoring total is his career PROFESSIONAL senior men's club points, combined with his career senior men's national team points.

So high school and college games for Kareem would not count, neither would games with junior USA teams if there were any. Only NBA, NBA playoffs, senior USA teams would count.

Also, they don't actually count all national team games played in those stats. That's not true. They only count officially sanctioned games. So that's not actually all of the friendly games.

So actually, what you could do is add NBA playoff games and Team USA senior games for Kareem or whatever. That would be it.

You are exaggerating all that other stuff.

Otherwise then you could say well every game Oscar played in youth career (probably hundreds in club games and national team games) would also count.

Then, I want you or whoever else to show me a table or list that include all of Oscar's 49,737 "official" points. Because I don't believe he scored anywhere near that many points as a "professional" either - "professional" being the same trait that forbade NBA players from participating in Olympics pre-92 or older internationals to join the NBA and then play for their N.T's.
To give you another example, since you know about Galis, I remind you that he almost got punished in the early 80's when he had claimed he was a professional athlete.
Claiming that he scored all those points as a participator in senior teams makes more sense. But even, you'll have to recognize that Oscar had the luxury of being considered a "senior" at a way younger age than Kareem.

In any case, their margin isn't anywhere near 10,000 points.

[r0drig0lac]

Another bit of trivia for you, Oscar said Spanoulis is one of the best players he has ever seen.
:applause: good for him, was an interview in greece?

[Euroleague]

Thanks for the response.

I'm not entirely sure what I should be looking for with regards to Sabonis. I was just looking to see his mpg/ppg/rpg/bpg/FG% for each season in his domestic and international careers (to see how he was before/after injuries, what he was like in his prime by the numbers).

Did the level of competition change when they became professional (maybe because there was as much or more focus by on club compared to national teams, though I'm speculating)? Or do you think it's fine to compare players from before or after?

There is no change in Sabonis' stats. All the talk about him "before injuries" was always made up bullshit. If anything, he had stats increases after his injuries.

He had some injuries - big deal. It's like if people were to claim Jordan never was the same after he broke his leg, or Westbrook is now officially done.

It's all just more NBA marketing hype, myths, legends, and made up bullshit. A lot of it coming from the Soviet Union versus Lithuania propaganda crap created by USA also.

They wanted to created a myth - European Wilt. And that's all it is. PURE BULLSHIT. I've said that here over and over and over.

There was no difference in the leagues from one season to the next.

Spanish League, Greek League, Euroleague, Italian League, the 2nd and 3rd European leagues - they were the same exact league from one year to the next. So the level of the league did not change.

It was just they went from being considered amateur to professional. Meaning they had to operate as a fully professional league and organization bound by rules. Before they were professional leagues, the clubs could basically just do whatever they wanted to. Then leagues formed with actual rules that each club had to adhere to.

[Euroleague]

FIBA Euroleague stats for Arvydas Sabonis:

1992-93

http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.playerID_7324.compID_,U z02qBnJiADOq5VntEf53.season_1993.roundID_2564.team ID_1020.html

1993-94

http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.teamID_1020.compID_,Uz0 2qBnJiADOq5VntEf53.season_1994.roundID_2565.player ID_7324.html

1994-95

http://www.fibaeurope.com/cid_KNce8jInH7Qj1EsyH5rjn2.playerID_7324.compID_,U z02qBnJiADOq5VntEf53.season_1995.roundID_2566.team ID_1020.html


Spanish ACB League stats for Arvydas Sabonis:

http://www.acb.com/stsacumjug.php?cod_jugador=AAM

That's in Spanish and does not really break it down like NBA fans are used to though. But I could help you if you are confused about how to figure it out.

If that's too hard for you to figure out though, I can just give you the team stats season by season, because they are listed more clearly. Like for example, the 1994-95 season:

http://www.acb.com/stsacum.php?cod_competicion=LACB&cod_edicion=39&cod_equipo=MAD&totales=0

It's still in Spanish, but it's easy to get it once you know what all the Spanish words are for each stat. But I can list all of those season by season like I did for the FIBA Euroleague stats.

[ArbitraryWater]

Everyone finally heard about Oscar Schmidt due to the Documentary :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

Why didn't this guy play in the NBA? He look like a total boss in his highlights

Watch the docu, declined to play for his national team ( was a huge deal back then, especially in brazil)

[fpliii]

There is no change in Sabonis' stats. All the talk about him "before injuries" was always made up bullshit. If anything, he had stats increases after his injuries.

He had some injuries - big deal. It's like if people were to claim Jordan never was the same after he broke his leg, or Westbrook is now officially done.

It's all just more NBA marketing hype, myths, legends, and made up bullshit. A lot of it coming from the Soviet Union versus Lithuania propaganda crap created by USA also.

They wanted to created a myth - European Wilt. And that's all it is. PURE BULLSHIT. I've said that here over and over and over.

There was no difference in the leagues from one season to the next.

Spanish League, Greek League, Euroleague, Italian League, the 2nd and 3rd European leagues - they were the same exact league from one year to the next. So the level of the league did not change.

It was just they went from being considered amateur to professional. Meaning they had to operate as a fully professional league and organization bound by rules. Before they were professional leagues, the clubs could basically just do whatever they wanted to. Then leagues formed with actual rules that each club had to adhere to.
Thanks again for the response, and the clarification regarding the amateur/professional leagues not being different.

My questions then are:

1) What sorts of injuries did he have, and how did they affect him? I can probably do the research myself and will, just wanted your take.

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

[MavsPoke]

Evo8 once had a quad seoson at the YMCA.

ESPN should do a documentary on that!

[Fiba basketball]

Thanks again for the response, and the clarification regarding the amateur/professional leagues not being different.

My questions then are:

1) What sorts of injuries did he have, and how did they affect him? I can probably do the research myself and will, just wanted your take.

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

He had very serious injures, something about his leg or anckle. From what I heard doctors at Portland were surprised he could even walk let alone play proffesional basketball.

[Euroleague]

Just to clarify here, it's kind of a myth that Schmidt never played in the NBA. He only never played in any official games.

But he did play in the NBA preseason with the Nets. I can't remember which year it was. I am thinking it was something like 1985-86 season or 1986-87 season.

He trained with the Nets in their training camp, and then he played with them in the preseason. He just didn't sign the contract they offered him after the preseason was over. Because the rules were he would have to forfeit playing for Brazil then.

So technically, he did play in the NBA, it's just that it was never in an official game. But people make it sound like he never went to play in the NBA, which isn't true. because he did.

And the thing about not being allowed to play for your national if you are a foreign player and play in the NBA - Americans also clearly have some kind of confusion about that also, even NBA only fans it seems that are not American.

It's really not that it's different now. Like 9 out of 10 times when you hear of a player in Europe that was offered a contract by an NBA team and did not sign there, they will list that the NBA team made not ever playing for their national team as a demand if they were to sign.

So it's really not different now. It's just now that if they play in the NBA they are allowed some token appearances here and there, like maybe one qualification to an Olympics and an Olympics if they ever made it.

Even then, these are not allowed if a player "needs to work on his game" or "has a new contract".

Very few players can play multiple times in their national team like Gasol or Manu, and even then, they take off a lot of games, summers, and commitments.

All around what the NBA team wants. Like Parker played at EuroBasket last summer. The Spurs let him play last summer, so now this summer, he "needs to rest" and can't play at the World Cup, etc.

So it's not like it really changed all that much. And there have been lots of players in Europe that just flat out said when an NBA team offered them a contract not playing ever in their national team was a precondition.

[Euroleague]

He had very serious injures, something about his leg or anckle. From what I heard doctors at Portland were surprised he could even walk let alone play proffesional basketball.

It's all part of cold war propaganda bullshit.

Yeah, he had some injuries. Not one thing was even career threatening. Andrew Bogut had much more injury problems.

[GimmeThat]

Watch the docu, declined to play for his national team ( was a huge deal back then, especially in brazil)


well, immigration is just sort of a different deal. you've got to be able to deal with gold diggers more. because fan girls won't try and hurt ya, but I don't know if they push you to make you better.

[Bigsmoke]

Oscar Schmidt aint shit.

i would dunk on his bitch ass

[Euroleague]

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

Too hard to answer. I would put Arvydas Sabonis and Kresimir Cosic there. Probably Dino Meneghin and Pau Gasol.

Then there are a lot that could be in there. Just guys that play as centers or 4/5s that are more "big men" types...

Vladmir Tkachenko
Janis Krumins
Stojko Vrankovic
Rafel Rullan
Vlade Divac
Dino Radja
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Victor Alexander
Kostas Tsartsaris
Clifford Luyk
Zeljko Rebraca
Walter Magnifico
Jiri Zidek
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Petar Skansi
Predrag Drobnjak
Nikola Vujcic
Dragan Tarlac
Timofey Mozgov
Nikola Pekovic
Dejan Tomasevic
Atanas Golomeev
Anatoly Myshkin
Rik Smits
Alexander Belostenny
Marc Gasol
Gregor ****a
Ioannis Bourousis
Sofoklis Schortsanitis
Nenad Krstic
Ante Tomic
Fran Vazquez
Robertas Javtokas

The list goes on, etc. Just trying to think of some names. It's a whole bunch.

So its probably something like (not in any order)

Arvydas Sabonis
Kresimir Cosic
Dino Meneghin
Pau Gasol

Then take your pick for a fifth one. I don't think any fifth one would have stood out to take in that place. So it would be just personal preference from many guys.

Personally, for me I would probably go with someone like Rik Smits, Ante Tomic, Nikola Pekovic, or Ioannis Bourousis.

Of course, I'm sure NBA only fans will select someone like Marc Gasol, Rik Smits, Nikola Pekovic, Vlade Divac, or Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

Too hard to answer. I would put Arvydas Sabonis and Kresimir Cosic there. Probably Dino Meneghin and Pau Gasol.

Then there are a lot that could be in there. Just guys that play as centers or 4/5s that are more "big men" types...

Vladmir Tkachenko
Janis Krumins
Stojko Vrankovic
Rafel Rullan
Vlade Divac
Dino Radja
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Victor Alexander
Kostas Tsartsaris
Clifford Luyk
Zeljko Rebraca
Walter Magnifico
Jiri Zidek
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Petar Skansi
Predrag Drobnjak
Nikola Vujcic
Dragan Tarlac
Timofey Mozgov
Nikola Pekovic
Dejan Tomasevic
Atanas Golomeev
Anatoly Myshkin
Rik Smits
Alexander Belostenny
Marc Gasol
Gregor ****a
Ioannis Bourousis
Sofoklis Schortsanitis
Nenad Krstic
Ante Tomic
Fran Vazquez
Robertas Javtokas

The list goes on, etc. Just trying to think of some names. It's a whole bunch.

So its probably something like (not in any order)

Arvydas Sabonis
Kresimir Cosic
Dino Meneghin
Pau Gasol

Then take your pick for a fifth one. I don't think any fifth one would have stood out to take in that place. So it would be just personal preference from many guys.

Personally, for me I would probably go with someone like Rik Smits, Ante Tomic, Nikola Pekovic, or Ioannis Bourousis.

Of course, I'm sure NBA only fans will select someone like Marc Gasol, Rik Smits, Nikola Pekovic, Vlade Divac, or Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

Nowitzki?

[fpliii]

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

Too hard to answer. I would put Arvydas Sabonis and Kresimir Cosic there. Probably Dino Meneghin and Pau Gasol.

Then there are a lot that could be in there. Just guys that play as centers or 4/5s that are more "big men" types...

Vladmir Tkachenko
Janis Krumins
Stojko Vrankovic
Rafel Rullan
Vlade Divac
Dino Radja
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Victor Alexander
Kostas Tsartsaris
Clifford Luyk
Zeljko Rebraca
Walter Magnifico
Jiri Zidek
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Petar Skansi
Predrag Drobnjak
Nikola Vujcic
Dragan Tarlac
Timofey Mozgov
Nikola Pekovic
Dejan Tomasevic
Atanas Golomeev
Anatoly Myshkin
Rik Smits
Alexander Belostenny
Marc Gasol
Gregor ****a
Ioannis Bourousis
Sofoklis Schortsanitis
Nenad Krstic
Ante Tomic
Fran Vazquez
Robertas Javtokas

The list goes on, etc. Just trying to think of some names. It's a whole bunch.

So its probably something like (not in any order)

Arvydas Sabonis
Kresimir Cosic
Dino Meneghin
Pau Gasol

Then take your pick for a fifth one. I don't think any fifth one would have stood out to take in that place. So it would be just personal preference from many guys.

Personally, for me I would probably go with someone like Rik Smits, Ante Tomic, Nikola Pekovic, or Ioannis Bourousis.

Of course, I'm sure NBA only fans will select someone like Marc Gasol, Rik Smits, Nikola Pekovic, Vlade Divac, or Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
Thanks.

I'm a big fan of NBA History and I've read a bit about Krumins. Apparently he was a big deal, and went against Russell in his day (56 Games). Haven't found too much on him, though maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

Last question. Thanks for the Sabonis stats, do you have any clue where I can find anything on for his Zalgiris numbers? I tried searching in both Lithuanian and Russian using some of the obvious keywords, but I don't understand either language (with your Spanish links, I can read a bit of Italian so they aren't too bad).

I mean, the FIBA Archive has his numbers from those competitions (PPG only except the 88 Olympics):

http://archive.fiba.com/pages/eng/fa/p/lid_38135_cp/1/pid/7324/q/sabonis/rpp//_//players.html

So I presume they would be similar.

[Fiba basketball]

2) Who are the top 5 GOAT European big men?

Too hard to answer. I would put Arvydas Sabonis and Kresimir Cosic there. Probably Dino Meneghin and Pau Gasol.

Then there are a lot that could be in there. Just guys that play as centers or 4/5s that are more "big men" types...

Vladmir Tkachenko
Janis Krumins
Stojko Vrankovic
Rafel Rullan
Vlade Divac
Dino Radja
Zydrunas Ilgauskas
Victor Alexander
Kostas Tsartsaris
Clifford Luyk
Zeljko Rebraca
Walter Magnifico
Jiri Zidek
Panagiotis Fasoulas
Petar Skansi
Predrag Drobnjak
Nikola Vujcic
Dragan Tarlac
Timofey Mozgov
Nikola Pekovic
Dejan Tomasevic
Atanas Golomeev
Anatoly Myshkin
Rik Smits
Alexander Belostenny
Marc Gasol
Gregor ****a
Ioannis Bourousis
Sofoklis Schortsanitis
Nenad Krstic
Ante Tomic
Fran Vazquez
Robertas Javtokas

The list goes on, etc. Just trying to think of some names. It's a whole bunch.

So its probably something like (not in any order)

Arvydas Sabonis
Kresimir Cosic
Dino Meneghin
Pau Gasol

Then take your pick for a fifth one. I don't think any fifth one would have stood out to take in that place. So it would be just personal preference from many guys.

Personally, for me I would probably go with someone like Rik Smits, Ante Tomic, Nikola Pekovic, or Ioannis Bourousis.

Of course, I'm sure NBA only fans will select someone like Marc Gasol, Rik Smits, Nikola Pekovic, Vlade Divac, or Zydrunas Ilgauskas.

You forgot the most dominant of them all, Korac.

[Iceman#44]

Then, I want you or whoever else to show me a table or list that include all of Oscar's 49,737 "official" points. Because I don't believe he scored anywhere near that many points as a "professional" either - "professional" being the same trait that forbade NBA players from participating in Olympics pre-92 or older internationals to join the NBA and then play for their N.T's.
To give you another example, since you know about Galis, I remind you that he almost got punished in the early 80's when he had claimed he was a professional athlete.
Claiming that he scored all those points as a participator in senior teams makes more sense. But even, you'll have to recognize that Oscar had the luxury of being considered a "senior" at a way younger age than Kareem.

In any case, their margin isn't anywhere near 10,000 points.


About OSCAR SCHMIDT

In Italy, during 11 seasons (from 1982-83 to 1992-93), Oscar scored 13.957 points (2nd all-time) in 403 regular season/playoff games, 34.6 ppg.
During the 1990-91 season, in the 2nd level italian League (called Serie A2 back then), he scored 44.0 points per game on 27.5 shots per game. His career high in Italy is 66 points.

In The Olympics Games, he played with Brazil 38 games and scored 1.093 points, 28.8 per game.
During the 1988 Olympics, he scored 42.2 points per game, including 55 against Spain.

He played also in 1978, 1982, 1986 and 1990 World Championship, scoring 843 points in 33 games, 25.5 per game.

Schmidt plays also for 2 season in Spain, scoring 2.009 points in 71 games, 28.3 per game.


Then of course, he played in Brazil from 1976 to 1982 and again from 1995 to 2003.
I will try to find some stats about his brazilian years.

[Iceman#44]

About OSCAR SCHMIDT

I found this on his official Website

PONTOS PROFISSIONAL

Palmeiras
2.033 em 82 jogos - 24,8 m

[Iceman#44]

Here
http://archiviostorico.corriere.it/2001/febbraio/25/ultimo_tiro_Oscar_vuole_superare_co_0_0102254554.s html

we have Oscar talking about Jabbar's record and thinking it. It's from february 2001.

[fpliii]

Euroleague: found his stats from Zalgiris!

https://web.archive.org/web/20080227131756/http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002InfJug.php?idjug=1754&idioma=1

Psileas actually posted the original link in this thread:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112572

though it was deleted. Fortunately the archive.org saved a cached copy.

Some shit is incomplete, but it has his league stats.

[Psileas]

Iceman44, thanks for posting this, I also found it a little ago. It's interesting that those 49,737 points of him are considered to have been scored at a professional level and that he scored 4,408 more as an amateur, although lots of those leagues weren't considered professional for several years. That gives him 54,145 overall points to Jabbar's 48,541 (pro+non pro) or 49,237, if we include his stats as a freshman (he couldn't play for the varsity as a freshman).
I still haven't found about Euroleague's references to all his N.T games.

Fpliii, thank you too for posting this page from basketpedya. This had been probably literally the only site that accumulated stats for players outside the NBA. It wasn't complete by any means, but it was the only one I know of (or, at least, the only one you don't need to subscribe first). A damn shame that it ceased to exist and that a globally popular game still doesn't have a reliable statistical database outside the US. :facepalm

[kkb_12]

You forgot the most dominant of them all, Korac.
and couple more:

Fernando Martin
Radovanovic
Jerkov
Myshkyn
Volkov
Jelovac

[Fiba basketball]

and couple more:

Fernando Martin
Radovanovic
Jerkov
Myshkyn
Volkov
Jelovac
You can't compare those guys with Korac. Korac is something like European Wilt, he even scored 99 on one game which is still the record for most pts scored in one game.

[kkb_12]

You can't compare those guys with Korac. Korac is something like European Wilt, he even scored 99 on one game which is still the record for most pts scored in one game.
Not comparing -just adding to the list of top big man in Europe so,we of the guys that we're missing. Korac was great player from everything I read or heard, the legend in 60's.

Couple more bigs that come to kind: Zizic, Savic, Knego, Belosteny...

[Harison]

I remember watching some of Oscar's games in his prime - he was the best pure shooter I have ever seen in my life. Imagine Dirk or Ray on fire, and consistently staying on fire for entire seasons, not just some games here and there. Oscar was that good, he could literally score anytime from anywhere, effortlessly. Reminds me a bit of prime Tmac, who could also sleepwalk into averaging 30PPG.

[TheBigVeto]

If Oscar had played in the NBA, he'd end up being the 2nd GOAT SF after Bird. Bran will be 3rd.

[GimmeThat]

well, I don't know about players ranking

but I am certain at the hall of fame.
they don't just rank people based on their playing career.

[Genaro]

I saw him play live when I was a kid and he was playing for Flamengo. He was past his prime but could still shoot very well.

[madmax17]

Dude was a bonified killa' something like a white Durant. If he played in the nba back then he would dominate, proly win 1 mvp.

He also lit the USA team once with ease, Brazil won that game.

[bdreason]

It wasn't until 1989 that the restriction was lifted.


And what was his excuse after that?