Gary Payton holds Michael Jordan to 5/19 shooting (1996 Finals, Game 6)

[mehyaM24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9ezKk1arA

gp finally was assigned to jordan in game 4 and the sonics won 2 of 3 and lost this game because they couldn't throw it in the ocean.

a great performance nonetheless...one of my favorite 90s players :rockon:

[DonDadda59]

DPOY gonna DPOY :applause:

[ArbitraryWater]

GP :applause:

[TheMan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9ezKk1arA

gp finally was assigned to jordan in game 4 and the sonics won 2 of 3 and lost this game because they couldn't throw it in the ocean.

a great performance nonetheless...one of my favorite 90s players :rockon:
Series was basically over by then but yeah, GP did a nice job on Jordan.

[mehyaM24]

Series was basically over by then but yeah, GP did a nice job on Jordan.

jordan usually ate midgets up (what he faced throughout the 90s), but payton was tenacious. never backed down from anybody. some of the quickest hands i've seen from an on-ball defender

sonics were just unfortunate everybody else on the bulls picked it up, with pippen leading the way defensively

pretty crazy how stacked that bulls team was

[Young X]

2/5

[andgar923]

Payton is a horrible athlete and wouldn't be good in this era.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The glove.. One of the baddest cats of my generation :applause:

[andgar923]

On a different note....


90% of what Payton did defensively would've been called a foul today.

[DonDadda59]

jordan usually ate midgets up

Could you imagine any scenario wherein MJ gets outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench? :confusedshrug:

[riseagainst]

Could you imagine any scenario wherein MJ gets outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench? :confusedshrug:

at least lebron wouldn't get out scored by midgets coming off the bench.

[Calabis]

at least lebron wouldn't get out scored by midgets coming off the bench.

I thought the guy guarding Jordan in that series should have got finals MVP:lol

[DonDadda59]

at least lebron wouldn't get out scored by midgets coming off the bench.

This, which is why Bron is the consensus GOA-



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3625417-7496304809-abs9a.gif


Oh...

[Hey Yo]

Jordan averaged 27.3 points. 5.3 rebounds and 4.2 assists. He also shot 42 percent from the field, 32 percent from three, 84 percent from the line. He averaged three turnovers per game, and in the deciding Game 6 against the Sonics, he had as many turnovers (five) as made baskets (five, on 19 shots).

In fact, in the last three games of those '96 Finals, Jordan shot 37 percent, with 11 turnovers. Nonetheless, Jordan was once again named Finals MVP.

[mehyaM24]

Could you imagine any scenario wherein MJ gets outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench? :confusedshrug:

imagined it? it actually happened! eastern finals, vinnie "6'2" microwave" johnson had 22 points to jordans 18 hahahaha

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

[kamil]

8 points.

[riseagainst]

Jordan averaged 27.3 points. 5.3 rebounds and 4.2 assists. He also shot 42 percent from the field, 32 percent from three, 84 percent from the line. He averaged three turnovers per game, and in the deciding Game 6 against the Sonics, he had as many turnovers (five) as made baskets (five, on 19 shots).

In fact, in the last three games of those '96 Finals, Jordan shot 37 percent, with 11 turnovers. Nonetheless, Jordan was once again named Finals MVP.

yes. Jordan's legacy is forever tainted by having an undeserved finals mvp award by having his teammates bail him out.... lebron, on the other hand, would have never needed his teammates to bail him out.
:applause:

[Force]

Amazing to look at how crowded the paint was before the rule changes. I'm not sure if Russell Westbrook would crack an NBA rotation playing with those rules. Just a completely different game. This was Jordan's worst finals, the first one back after retirement. People criticizing his performance in this finals should probably just keep on walking considering Jordan won again the next year...and then the year again...

[mehyaM24]

Jordan averaged 27.3 points. 5.3 rebounds and 4.2 assists. He also shot 42 percent from the field, 32 percent from three, 84 percent from the line. He averaged three turnovers per game, and in the deciding Game 6 against the Sonics, he had as many turnovers (five) as made baskets (five, on 19 shots).

In fact, in the last three games of those '96 Finals, Jordan shot 37 percent, with 11 turnovers. Nonetheless, Jordan was once again named Finals MVP.

was also held to .367% shooting the last 3 games of that series, or once payton was assigned to him

Gary 'the jordan stopper' Payton :rockon:

[AirFederer]

One game.

Who got the hardware, again? :sleeping

[DonDadda59]

imagined it? it actually happened! eastern finals, vinnie "6'2" microwave" johnson had 22 points to jordans 18 hahahaha

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

I should've clarified that I didn't mean a single game, I meant the entire series (figured it was implied)... Jordan averaged 30, microwave put up 13.

I meant more along the lines of the '11 finals wherein the Michael Jordan of this era was outscored by Jason Terry for the series 18 PPG to 17.8 PPG.

Sorry for the confusion :cheers:

[CavaliersFTW]

This, which is why Bron is the consensus GOA-



http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3625417-7496304809-abs9a.gif


Oh...
:oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

I should've clarified that I didn't mean a single game, I meant the entire series (figured it was implied)... Jordan averaged 30, microwave put up 13.

I meant more along the lines of the '11 finals wherein the Michael Jordan of this era was outscored by Jason Terry for the series 18 PPG to 17.8 PPG.

Sorry for the confusion :cheers:

:rolleyes: no clarifications needed. you asked, and, well, you were proven wrong.

enough about vinnie outscoring jordan (in the biggest game of his career up to that point)

this is a celebration of GP shutting down jordan DEFENSIVELY :cheers:

[Calabis]

I should've clarified that I didn't mean a single game, I meant the entire series (figured it was implied)... Jordan averaged 30, microwave put up 13.

I meant more along the lines of the '11 finals wherein the Michael Jordan of this era was outscored by Jason Terry for the series 18 PPG to 17.8 PPG.

Sorry for the confusion :cheers:

:applause: :roll:

BronBoys are stupid...also he was outscored by his teammate by nearly 10 pts a game lol.

[Young X]

MJ vs '96 Sonics: 27/5/4 on 116 ORTG

Kobe's career average: 26/5/5 on 111 ORTG

Wade's career average: 24/6/5 on 111 ORTG

So in one of MJ's worst series he still put up numbers comparable to/better than Wade and Kobe's career averages. Cool.

[mehyaM24]

One game.

Who got the hardware, again? :sleeping
3 games

was also held to .367% shooting the last 3 games of that series
payton = goat midget of the 90s

[Nikola_]

Lebron stans desperate right now

:oldlol:

[riseagainst]

MJ vs '96 Sonics: 27/5/4 on 116 ORTG

Kobe's career average: 26/5/5 on 111 ORTG

Wade's career average: 24/6/5 on 111 ORTG

So in one of MJ's worst series he still put up numbers comparable to/better than Wade and Kobe's career averages. Cool.

what?
such a terrible comparison. Who the hell compares 6 games to career?
:roll:

[Soundwave]

Jordan's torched Payton many times when they played head to head so there's nothing all that special about Payton's D.

The Bulls simply got up 3-0 and for the first time that season took their foot off the gas pedal a bit. In a lot of ways the Magic series was really the Finals for the Bulls, once they had gotten over that hump the rest was pretty much just a formality.

Credit to the Sonics for playing for pride though and saving some face instead of just lying down and getting swept like Shaq/Penny did.

Not MJ's best finals by a long shot, but unlike the crybabies that make excuses for LeBron and Kobe's finals where they actually got embarrassed and their rear ends kicked in, Jordan still got the job done and had his best game of that series in game 3, which was the dagger that basically sealed the Finals.

LeBron stans so fuggin' salty their boy couldn't get the job done (again), lol. Threepeating is hard work, kiddies.

[DonDadda59]

:rolleyes: no clarifications needed. you asked, and, well, you were proven wrong.


Yeah... not exactly. Clearly I was talking about whole series as I said.

If we were just talking about single game midget exploits, we'd have to look no farther than game 4 of the '11 NBA finals wherein the Michael Jordan of this era had 8 points (while being guarded by 6'4 Kidd, 6'2 Terry, and the allegedly 6'0 Barea). That point total matched the midget Barea who accomplished it on 2 less FGA, and was surpassed by Terry's 17 off the bench. The 6'5 DeShawn Stevenson had 16 off the bench as well, doubling up LeHeir but I don't know if that's too tall to ride.

This was in a finals game that MIA lost by only 3 points mind you, where Wade had 32 points on 65% shooting. But those midgets are lethal.

[Calabis]

He seemed content to play more like the guy guarding him, Jason Kidd -- the 38-year-old version of Kidd

Yes.... Lebron Game 4 of the NBA finals goes 3-20....for 8pts

38 year old Kidd-Goat midget defender of Lebron era:roll:

[mehyaM24]

what?
such a terrible comparison. Who the hell compares 6 games to career?
:roll:

low iq poster. put him on ignore

how about the clamps payton put on jordon @ 3:10...OMG...GOAT midget defender! top 10 perimeter defender ever! :bowdown:

[Straight_Ballin]

Another example of just how good Jordan was. It took a DPOY with the nickname "the glove" to try and stop Jordan while it took a role player name Leonard to stop Bron. :lol

[Calabis]

low iq poster. put him on ignore

how about the clamps payton put on jordon @ 3:10...OMG...GOAT midget defender! top 10 perimeter defender ever! :bowdown:

Payton is a top 10 perimeter defender.....how about 38 year old Kidd though?

[Young X]

what?
such a terrible comparison. Who the hell compares 6 games to career?
:roll:Point is he still had good numbers in one of his worst series. :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

8 points.
Huh?


Why bring up Bird's B2B 8pt games in the 81' Finals?

[Calabis]

Another example of just how good Jordan was. It took a DPOY with the nickname "the glove" to try and stop Jordan while it took a role player name Leonard to stop Bron. :lol

Not only that he then turned around on offense and earned MVP honors:oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Amazing to look at how crowded the paint was before the rule changes. I'm not sure if Russell Westbrook would crack an NBA rotation playing with those rules. Just a completely different game. This was Jordan's worst finals, the first one back after retirement. People criticizing his performance in this finals should probably just keep on walking considering Jordan won again the next year...and then the year again...

Funny, since some idiots will actually insist that the paint is more crowded today. :oldlol: It was even more crowded in the 80's and early 90's before the 3 was prevalent.

lol @ talking about MJ's percentages here when he was A) averaging way more ppg than anyone on his team; B) seeing way more defensive attention; and C) his team shot like 41% excluding him, so they weren't on fire either (Pippen was at like 39%, Kukoc 37%, Kerr 33%, Harper 38% iirc).

[mehyaM24]

Payton is a top 10 perimeter defender.....how about 38 year old Kidd though?

kidd was a decent athlete. OK on-ball defender

still good enough to hold jordan to 44% in career H2Hs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=kiddja01) :bowdown:

[andgar923]

kidd was a decent athlete. OK on-ball defender

still good enough to hold jordan to 44% in career H2Hs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=kiddja01) :bowdown:

Clear case of somebody being exposed.

Those stats are completely misleading since MJ torched Kidd with ease, even as a Wizard.

[DonDadda59]

kidd was a decent athlete. OK on-ball defender

still good enough to hold jordan to 44% in career H2Hs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=kiddja01) :bowdown:

Does this mean that MJ held him to 34% FG? :confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

This is probably the most quoted game in the history of basketball by Bran and Kobe stans, as they desperately try to diminish Jordan's legacy, in the very few slivers available.

[Johnny Jones]

Payton is a horrible athlete and wouldn't be good in this era.
:facepalm

[mehyaM24]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0

^and now...game 4 of this finals. payton holds jordan to 6/19 shooting :eek: :bowdown:

never seen defense like this from a midget. OMFG! im willing to put him in my top 5. what do you guys think?

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0

^and now...game 4 of this finals. payton holds jordan to 6/19 shooting :eek: :bowdown:

never seen defense like this from a midget. OMFG! im willing to put him in my top 5. what do you guys think?

90% of what Payton did would be illegal today.

[Soundwave]

This is probably the most quoted game in the history of basketball by Bran and Kobe stans, as they desperately try to diminish Jordan's legacy, in the very few slivers available.

Shhh ... it's all those silly b*tches have left. :lol

[97 bulls]

kidd was a decent athlete. OK on-ball defender

still good enough to hold jordan to 44% in career H2Hs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=kiddja01) :bowdown:
Oh stop. More than half of those games were played on Jordans second comeback when he was a Wizard.

[jzek]

Some young nikka on here said he's a poor man's Toney Douglas

ISH never fails to provide the laughs :oldlol:

[j3lademaster]

90% of what Payton did would be illegal today.Still a 6'4 pg midget. Nothing compared to the towering statures of today's pg's....

[mehyaM24]

This is probably the most quoted game in the history of basketball by Bran and Kobe stans, as they desperately try to diminish Jordan's legacy, in the very few slivers available.

?

checkout game 4 of the series...jordan held to 6/19 this time (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-AMtjN4um0)

think of this more as an appreciation thread. gary payton = deion sanders

[ArbitraryWater]

imagined it? it actually happened! eastern finals, vinnie "6'2" microwave" johnson had 22 points to jordans 18 hahahaha

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html

the microwave outscoring mj lolololol :lol

[Graviton]

the microwave outscoring mj lolololol :lol
At least it's not Jason Terry. :bowdown:

[Kargo]

This mehyaM24 guy is bringing the laughs hard,thread after thread,post after post...trying so,so hard to convince himself that LeBeta can even be the recipient of the honor of shining Jordan's shoes.

I've seen delusion but this desperate behavior is very concerning...it's like trying desperately to compare a Honda Civic to a Ferrari and starting to use some arguments like ''well there was this drunken driver that crashed the Ferrari in March 1997,he wouldn't have crashed the Civic!''

Therefore the Civic is the better car!

[mehyaM24]

This mehyaM24 guy is bringing the laughs hard,thread after thread,post after post...trying so,so hard to convince himself that LeBeta can even be the recipient of the honor of shining Jordan's shoes.

I've seen delusion but this desperate behavior is very concerning...it's like trying desperately to compare a Honda Civic to a Ferrari and starting to use some arguments like ''well there was this drunken driver that crashed the Ferrari in March 1997,he wouldn't have crashed the Civic!''

Therefore the Civic is the better car!

appreciate the admiration, but i havent mentioned lebron once in this thread

carry on

[veilside23]

atleast GP is a glorified all star.. your boy let a role player now win FMVP ...:rolleyes:

[Calabis]

kidd was a decent athlete. OK on-ball defender

still good enough to hold jordan to 44% in career H2Hs (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=jordami01&p2=kiddja01) :bowdown:

38 year old Kidd or prime Kidd moron

[Smoke117]

Payton is a top 10 perimeter defender.....how about 38 year old Kidd though?

I dunno about 38 year old kid, but Jason Kidd to me has always been a better defender who made a bigger impact than Gary Payton. Kidd was a much, much better help/team defender...the best the point guard position has ever seen. Most pg's don't make much of an impact off their man, but Kidd was frankly the best and most important defensive player on the Nets which was a defensive team. You'd be hard pressed to say Payton was more important to the Sonics defense than Shawn Kemp. He should have never won that DPOY that he did win. David Robinson was clearly the DPOY in 96.

[GODbe]

imagined it? it actually happened! eastern finals, vinnie "6'2" microwave" johnson had 22 points to jordans 18 hahahaha

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html
:lol

[Calabis]

I dunno about 38 year old kid, but Jason Kidd to me has always been a better defender who made a bigger impact than Gary Payton. Kidd was a much, much better help/team defender...the best the point guard position has ever seen. Most pg's don't make much of an impact off their man, but Kidd was frankly the best and most important defensive player on the Nets which was a defensive team. You'd be hard pressed to say Payton was more important to the Sonics defense than Shawn Kemp. He should have never won that DPOY that he did win. David Robinson was clearly the DPOY in 96.

Nice rant....now tell me about 38 year old Kidd holding LeBron to 3-20...a 6'8 260lb beast....ur bringing up the nets version of Kidd who played a 40 year Jordan....the same guy he said was the best hes ever faced.

[Smoke117]

Nice rant....now tell me about 38 year old Kidd holding LeBron to 3-20...a 6'8 260lb beast....ur bringing up the nets version of Kidd who played a 40 year Jordan....the same guy he said was the best hes ever faced.


I don't even know what this has to do with anything I said, but okay. I could care less about this payton/jordan garbage thread. I just found something that perked my interest and remarked on it. That you even decided to respond with what you did just makes me smirk as it had nothing to do with what I was saying. Good victory though, eh?

[Hey Yo]

Nice rant....now tell me about 38 year old Kidd holding LeBron to 3-20...a 6'8 260lb beast....ur bringing up the nets version of Kidd who played a 40 year Jordan....the same guy he said was the best hes ever faced.
LeBron was letting Wade try to get FMVP.

[Killbot]

Payton is a horrible athlete and wouldn't be good in this era.

:biggums:

[plowking]

Another example of just how good Jordan was. It took a DPOY with the nickname "the glove" to try and stop Jordan while it took a role player name Leonard to stop Bron. :lol

Lebron got shut down while averaging 28ppg on 58% shooting? You clearly have high standards.

[longtime lurker]

Jesus how low have Lebron stans fallen? Now they're hating on Michael Jordan for a series that he won!

[Asukal]

Props to the glove, he was a heck of a defender. Let's just set things straight here, the thing he did really well against Jordan was to deny him the ball. He wasn't responsible for Jordan's FG%, if you watched those games Jordan had good looks in most of his shots but missed them. GP is a great defender, one of the best MJ faced but let's not twist what actually happened to fit our agendas. :rolleyes:

[andgar923]

Props to the glove, he was a heck of a defender. Let's just set things straight here, the thing he did really well against Jordan was to deny him the ball. He wasn't responsible for Jordan's FG%, if you watched those games Jordan had good looks in most of his shots but missed them. GP is a great defender, one of the best MJ faced but let's not twist what actually happened to fit our agendas. :rolleyes:

Well... to Glove's credit he wore MJ down.

I remember watching him miss great looks as well, but clearly his legs were gone. Nonetheless, it was a TEAM effort defensively, he was basically Dumars 2.0 forcing MJ to the help, beating him up and wearing him down.

But having said that....

it is misleading to say that Glove shut him down.

[Calabis]

I don't even know what this has to do with anything I said, but okay. I could care less about this payton/jordan garbage thread. I just found something that perked my interest and remarked on it. That you even decided to respond with what you did just makes me smirk as it had nothing to do with what I was saying. Good victory though, eh?

Dude was just giving u shit...but ur talking about a version of Kidd that didnt face Lebron.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

and the bulls still won:roll: :roll: :roll: :biggums:
stacked beyond believe:coleman:

[DonDadda59]

and the bulls still won:roll: :roll: :roll: :biggums:
stacked beyond believe:coleman:

Beyond believe :applause:

[plowking]

Beyond believe :applause:

:oldlol:

[ILLsmak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9ezKk1arA

gp finally was assigned to jordan in game 4 and the sonics won 2 of 3 and lost this game because they couldn't throw it in the ocean.

a great performance nonetheless...one of my favorite 90s players :rockon:

Yea that series was sad to watch. Of course, I was anti-Jordan then, but when you get to the finals you gotta take "hershey" hawkins off of MJ. That's bad shit.

Edit: stop calling Leonard a role player, I bet he is gonna be an all star and an all-d teamer from now on.


-Smak

[allball]

Jordan's torched Payton many times when they played head to head so there's nothing all that special about Payton's D.

The Bulls simply got up 3-0 and for the first time that season took their foot off the gas pedal a bit. In a lot of ways the Magic series was really the Finals for the Bulls, once they had gotten over that hump the rest was pretty much just a formality.

Credit to the Sonics for playing for pride though and saving some face instead of just lying down and getting swept like Shaq/Penny did.

Not MJ's best finals by a long shot, but unlike the crybabies that make excuses for LeBron and Kobe's finals where they actually got embarrassed and their rear ends kicked in, Jordan still got the job done and had his best game of that series in game 3, which was the dagger that basically sealed the Finals.

LeBron stans so fuggin' salty their boy couldn't get the job done (again), lol. Threepeating is hard work, kiddies.

that's not what happened

[NumberSix]

Lebron got shut down while averaging 28ppg on 58% shooting? You clearly have high standards.
Apparently not since he praising Jordan's 27ppg on 41%


LeBron's 28ppg on 58% = "shut down"
Jordan's 27ppg on 41% = "an example of just how good Jordan was"

[sekachu]

Could you imagine any scenario wherein MJ gets outscored in a finals series by a midget coming off the bench? :confusedshrug:




The lebron stans are so salty as hell :lol , They know deep inside that lebron is not match MJ's career after losing the final. 6/6>>>>>>>>2/5 no matter what they say about MJ.

[veilside23]

Apparently not since he praising Jordan's 27ppg on 41%


LeBron's 28ppg on 58% = "shut down"
Jordan's 27ppg on 41% = "an example of just how good Jordan was"


how many games is that again? any of the games that jordan scored 0 in the fourth?

[Soundwave]

how many games is that again? any of the games that jordan scored 0 in the fourth?

Uh oh got awfully quiet in here. :oldlol:

[Soundwave]

that's not what happened

The Bulls were up 3-0 in the series, which was a first in any of their Finals, that is what happened, including the third game where Jordan basically buried the Sonics.

That series was never in doubt it was a just a matter of if Chicago was going to have to celebrate in Seattle or get a home court celebration like in '92.

The NBA Finals for the Bulls really was the ECF vs. the Magic who they trounced. No one gave the Sonics a prayer of beating the Bulls, but to their credit they managed to scrape out a couple of wins on their home court before bowing out.

No team in NBA history has ever come back from a 3-0 deficit and the Sonics sure as f*ck weren't going to do it against the 72-10 Bulls.

[TheMan]

jordan usually ate midgets up (what he faced throughout the 90s), but payton was tenacious. never backed down from anybody. some of the quickest hands i've seen from an on-ball defender

sonics were just unfortunate everybody else on the bulls picked it up, with pippen leading the way defensively

pretty crazy how stacked that bulls team was
How is GP a 'midget'? He was 6'4", same height DWade and Tony Allen are:confusedshrug:
And that's taller than Russell Westbrook, Steph Curry, Derrick Rose, Chris Paul, Tony Parker, Rajon Rondo etc and these guys have no problem playing today :confusedshrug:

Believe it or not, many coaches put smaller players on Jordan because MJ blew past bigger players and the hope was that smaller players would be quicker in that regard, they'd rather have MJ shooting jumpers than him getting to the rim and creating all kinds of havoc.

[TheMan]

what?
such a terrible comparison. Who the hell compares 6 games to career?
:roll:
Desperate Bran stans apparently :oldlol:

[TheMan]

This is probably the most quoted game in the history of basketball by Bran and Kobe stans, as they desperately try to diminish Jordan's legacy, in the very few slivers available.
True, but even in this discussion, Bronytes get exposed as efficient FG% loving stat nerds who don't understand that there are going to be games or even series were the defense is going to be top notch or even just that your shot isn't falling. MJ still outscored everyone in that series, he and his teammates provided enough defense to pull it out and win in 6. Some wins are gonna be ugly but as long as you play defense, you give yourself a shot, bad shooting regardless (the Bulls won many games like this).

That's another difference between Jordan and James, Jordan still kept trying score, fvck FG%, winning ugly is more important than losing with a pretty stat line, just how it happened just a few days ago, lol.

[plowking]

how many games is that again? any of the games that jordan scored 0 in the fourth?

Funny how Lebron was having one of the best playoff runs ever prior to this, everyone marveling over his play and stats, and then somehow his stats become empty because he loses.

Lebron's in game, and meaningful stats are even better than that 57%. Most of his misses came when the games were blown out and Spurs were up 20.

[russwest0]

Funny how Lebron was having one of the best playoff runs ever prior to this, everyone marveling over his play and stats, and then somehow his stats become empty because he loses.

Lebron's in game, and meaningful stats are even better than that 57%. Most of his misses came when the games were blown out and Spurs were up 20.

http://i.imgur.com/4bUV7Ls.gif

[TheMan]

Funny how Lebron was having one of the best playoff runs ever prior to this, everyone marveling over his play and stats, and then somehow his stats become empty because he loses.

Lebron's in game, and meaningful stats are even better than that 57%. Most of his misses came when the games were blown out and Spurs were up 20.
Which is even more WTF worthy on how many long stretches of games LeBron didn't even attempt a shot. Instead of shooting 18 shots a game, fvck it, shoot 25+ times and try harder to win the game...but then his precious FG% might drop.:rolleyes:

[TheMan]

And to this mehyaM24 kid, love the way you refer to 6'4" Payton as a midget but never once have I seen you call 6'4" Wade a midget. Agenda much?

[navy]

Which is even more WTF worthy on how many long stretches of games LeBron didn't even attempt a shot. Instead of shooting 18 shots a game, fvck it, shoot 25+ times and try harder to win the game...but then his precious FG% might drop.:rolleyes:

There is nothing wrong with trying to get Wade/Bosh and the rest of the team going. They just sucked. The only way to outscore the Spurs was if the entire team was playing well.

There was only one game where I though Lebron wasnt shooting enough. Game 3.

[allball]

The Bulls were up 3-0 in the series, which was a first in any of their Finals, that is what happened, including the third game where Jordan basically buried the Sonics.

That series was never in doubt it was a just a matter of if Chicago was going to have to celebrate in Seattle or get a home court celebration like in '92.

The NBA Finals for the Bulls really was the ECF vs. the Magic who they trounced. No one gave the Sonics a prayer of beating the Bulls, but to their credit they managed to scrape out a couple of wins on their home court before bowing out.

No team in NBA history has ever come back from a 3-0 deficit and the Sonics sure as f*ck weren't going to do it against the 72-10 Bulls.

that had nothing to do with Payton locking up Jordan. the Sonics outplayed them those two games they won. their defense played much better. and in the clinching game for the Bulls, Jordan went 5/19. The bulls were .397 from the field. so was Mike and the Bulls cruising that game? I was rooting for the Bulls so I know what you say is untrue. Seattle's defense was better in the last 3 games.

[mehyaM24]

And to this mehyaM24 kid, love the way you refer to 6'4" Payton as a midget but never once have I seen you call 6'4" Wade a midget. Agenda much?
http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?4427-NBA-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurement
wade is 6'6" with shoes. payton is 6'4" :confusedshrug:

and what would be my agenda? praising gary paytons lockdown defense? on that end dude is easily top 5 among perimeter players

[Calabis]

http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?4427-NBA-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurement
wade is 6'6" with shoes. payton is 6'4" :confusedshrug:

and what would be my agenda? praising gary paytons lockdown defense? on that end dude is easily top 5 among perimeter players

Wtf is Wade wearing Kiss boots....this dude is desperate

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

Guess either he is barefoot here or Jordan is 6'8 with shoes.

[mehyaM24]

Wtf is Wade wearing Kiss boots....this dude is desperate

how is that desperate? athletes compete WITH shoes

idiot

[diamenz]

GP played some great d that series. DPOY much deserved.

[TheMan]

http://www.interbasket.net/forums/showthread.php?4427-NBA-NBA-Pre-Draft-Measurement
wade is 6'6" with shoes. payton is 6'4" :confusedshrug:

and what would be my agenda? praising gary paytons lockdown defense? on that end dude is easily top 5 among perimeter players
And everyone knows MJ wasn't 6'6", was shorter than that. Not much taller than GP.
http://thumbs.boa.ulximg.com/public/articles/28/5_1385443528_8d5c5b07292580c971ad7396f00749b6.jpg

[Calabis]

how is that desperate? athletes compete WITH shoes

idiot

:facepalm

The link you posted said Wade was 6'3.75 without shoes...so according to you he is wearing high heels:rolleyes:

with shoes he is 6.4.75= Wade is a Midget

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/lottery_vitals_03.pdf

[DJ Leon Smith]

goat midget

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2012/1001/nba_g_james_gb2_576.jpg

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site569/2011/1212/20111212__111213Barea_300.jpg

[Calabis]

And everyone knows MJ wasn't 6'6", was shorter than that. Not much taller than GP.
http://thumbs.boa.ulximg.com/public/articles/28/5_1385443528_8d5c5b07292580c971ad7396f00749b6.jpg

No Jordan was 6'8 with shoes on...he must have wore these

http://www.kyoncatajen.com/images/jordan/Air-Jordan-3.5-High-Heels-White-Black-Red_4.jpg

[TheMan]

:oldlol:

[KG215]

http://www.interbasket.net/forums/sh...ft-Measurement
wade is 6'6" with shoes. payton is 6'4"

and what would be my agenda? praising gary paytons lockdown defense? on that end dude is easily top 5 among perimeter players
:wtf:

[SamuraiSWISH]

LMAO @ this troll mehyaM24. I've met D. Wade in person. Guy is like 6'3 and change. Appears longer given his arm length.

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

MJ is like 6'4 and change. Appears to be 6'5. Here is Jordan, in dress shoes at a club standing face to face with 6'8 LeBron

http://entertainmentrundown.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Michael-Jordan-Lebron-James-50th-Birthday-Party.jpg

[Calabis]

LMAO @ this troll mehyaM24. I've met D. Wade in person. Guy is like 6'3 and change. Appears longer given his arm length.

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

MJ is like 6'4 and change. Appears to be 6'5. Here is Jordan, in dress shoes at a club standing face to face with 6'8 LeBron

http://entertainmentrundown.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Michael-Jordan-Lebron-James-50th-Birthday-Party.jpg

Lebron apparently flopped on the dance floor prior to that picture and was on his knees when Jordan stood next to him.....nice try though:rolleyes:

[Lebron23]

And Jordan was laughing to his defense. His documentary rewrote history.

[Roundball_Rock]

And Jordan was laughing to his defense. His documentary rewrote history.

The media backed that revisionism too in their "coverage" of the doc after the episode.

[Doranku]

It's kinda funny that everyone likes to bring up Jordan's 5-19 performance in game 6, but there's never any mention of Scottie's 5-20 performance in game 5. :lol

Just realized Scottie went 4-17 in game 4 as well. No wonder the Sonics pushed it to a game 6.

[SATAN]

Payton is a horrible athlete and wouldn't be good in this era.

:kobe:

On a side note: Interesting that these arguments have literally been going on for years on here. Same people, same things being said FOR YEARS. I knew this was a kinda strange forum when I found it a few months ago but holy shit...What a bunch of nut cases. Seeing so many old threads popping up and realizing the arguments never truly stop here and probably never will... :oldlol:

[SATAN]

It's kinda funny that everyone likes to bring up Jordan's 5-19 performance in game 6, but there's never any mention of Scottie's 5-20 performance in game 5. :lol

Just realized Scottie went 4-17 in game 4 as well. No wonder the Sonics pushed it to a game 6.

Would have thought that almighty Lord Jordan Christ could have just taken over? Isn't that what he was known for? Perhaps he should have just punched Pippen in the face and told him to gtfotc

[Roundball_Rock]

It's kinda funny that everyone likes to bring up Jordan's 5-19 performance in game 6, but there's never any mention of Scottie's 5-20 performance in game 5. :lol

Just realized Scottie went 4-17 in game 4 as well. No wonder the Sonics pushed it to a game 6.

It is mentioned all the time that he struggled shooting in the 96' finals. Not specific games but the series as a whole. Usually it laughably is conflated with the 98' finals by box score readers who don't understand defense (i.e., he was great in 98' but not in the 96' finals).

[LostCause]

GPs defense was great but did some of you actually watch that series?

The biggest difference was Nate McMillan returning. He was their “Pippen” so to speak. Initiated the offense and quarterbacked the defense. He returned and played a good amount of minutes in Games 4 and 5, both wins but barely played Game 6, which they lost. Payton himself admitted after Game 4 Nate was the biggest reason for his own play turning around since Nate allowed GP to play off the ball and run Jordan through tons of screens and whatnot to wear him down defensively. Couple relevant quotes:


“Somebody told me that Nate played 10 quarters in that series and we won nine of the quarters,” Karl said in 2016. “I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I know he played Game 4 and Game 5, and some of Game 6 and those are the games that, of course, we won and in Game 6 we played a pretty damn good game but lost in the last three to four minutes.”


Payton moving onto Jordan undoubtedly was significant in the victories.

But most observers felt Seattle’s defense simply worked better with McMillan back. It returned everyone, including Payton, to more comfortable roles in a trapping scheme that required intricate teamwork. Grantland.com once called Karl’s defense “an aggressive style of trapping, chaotic defense that was ahead of its time.”

“Nate,” Payton was quoted after Game 4 when asked what was the biggest difference. “Nate McMillan.



In a 2016 interview with The Times, McMillan explained how his absence impacted the team in the Finals: “If I was in the game, Gary moved to the two so he didn’t have to handle the ball. I would play point guard on offense, Gary would play two on offense, then Gary would play two on defense and I would guard the one on defense. Without me being in there it forced Gary to have to play with the ball the entire series. And we couldn’t trap.

Or, as radio/TV analyst Marques Johnson put it: “Gary was the heart of the team, Nate was the soul of the team. Defensively he was kind of a quarterback, a coach on the floor. … In that series, his leadership, Gary kind of fed off that. Nate would get Gary fired up and get in his ear when Gary wasn’t playing hard and cuss him out and they would cuss each other out and then going back and forth, and that was the dynamic that these guys really fed on.”

[ImKobe]

It's kinda funny that everyone likes to bring up Jordan's 5-19 performance in game 6, but there's never any mention of Scottie's 5-20 performance in game 5. :lol

Just realized Scottie went 4-17 in game 4 as well. No wonder the Sonics pushed it to a game 6.

Yup.

Not only did Pippen go 16/54 (29.6%) in the last 3 games, but he only shot 4 FTs, all of which came in Game 5.

[LeCroix]

:kobe:

On a side note: Interesting that these arguments have literally been going on for years on here. Same people, same things being said FOR YEARS. I knew this was a kinda strange forum when I found it a few months ago but holy shit...What a bunch of nut cases. Seeing so many old threads popping up and realizing the arguments never truly stop here and probably never will... :oldlol:

:lol

[jayfan]

90% of what Payton did would be illegal today.

Such a lazy, dim argument.

90% of Ronnie Lot's hits would be illegal today, too. Does that mean he'd suck today?, or does it probably mean he'd be just as good because he would have adapted to/been coached in the new rules?

[PP34Deuce]

The biggest thing i see hardcore MJ unapologetics disregard is Michael's FG% going down each year in the 2nd 3 peat. That team was on fumes by 97. He missed more open shots because he didn't have his legs and just had a will that had them win games. He's the GOAT because he maintained that will to win but MJ was not consistently great in those regular seasons and had more play off stinkers than 89-93. He often gets excused for the losing to the Magic coming back from baseball but he was getting stripped, lazy turnovers, bricks at times.

[Round Mound]

Gary Payton played MJ very well in the 96 finals. But lets remember that MJ was not in his athletic peak he was basically a mid range and post up scorer later in his career as he hit over 30 years of age.

Some of you think that MJ did not outplay Payton mostly every time they played, well, are wrong. This is what MJ put up against Payton for his career:

MJ: 38.8 MPG, 30.5 PPG on 47.0% FG (taking 24.3 FGAs PG), 7.9 RPG, 3.7 APG, 2.2 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.4 TOVs PG and 2.4 PFs PG

[Carbine]

Did you really go back and watch all the times Payton played Jordans teams and chart those exact numbers for when Payton was defending Jordan as the primary defender?

If those stats are what Jordan did against teams Payton played on, it's useless and means nothing.

It's like when you hear people say LeBron put up 28/9/9 or whatever it was against Kawhi and that was considered shutting him down, so that shows you how dominant LeBron really is.

Except when you know....go chart the plays Kawhi guarded LeBron as the main defender, and it becomes clear that LeBron had a very difficult time with him. He just got his numbers against other defenders or garbage time.

These type numbers mean nothing without the player being the primary defender.

[Lebron23]

LMAO @ this troll mehyaM24. I've met D. Wade in person. Guy is like 6'3 and change. Appears longer given his arm length.

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

MJ is like 6'4 and change. Appears to be 6'5. Here is Jordan, in dress shoes at a club standing face to face with 6'8 LeBron

http://entertainmentrundown.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Michael-Jordan-Lebron-James-50th-Birthday-Party.jpg

Jordan is still 6'5"