Replace Lebron with a prime Magic for 11-14. How many rings?

[Jameerthefear]

If any.

[Rocketswin2013]

Magic's defense was so trash.

[riseagainst]

4peat

[dubeta]

0 rings, out of the first round every season

Drose, westbrook, parker, would all blow by Magic

Once wade declines, no scorer on the team

[NumberSix]

None. This is not the 80's where you can get by without playing any defense.

[navy]

1 ring in 2011.

[Nikola_]

http://oi54.tinypic.com/9iwl5f.jpg

[Hey Yo]

Magic's defense was so trash.
That's why I consider him overrated.

How can people (who I've seen) have him top 3 when his defense was awful?

[Black and White]

2 rings, 2011 and 2012.


2013 maybe, but not this year for sure.

[Soundwave]

2-3.

Magic was a better floor general than LeBron is, he would allow Wade and Bosh to play in their comfort zone, in fact he would insist on it, he'd push them and make sure they were getting the ball.

That's the player Magic was, he was always keeping tabs on Kareem, Worthy, Coop, etc. to make sure they were getting the touches and the ball when and where needed. He would feed Kareem early to make sure he was engaged in a game/series.

Magic also presents a ton of match up issues. He actually goes into the post for one.

[Kiddlovesnets]

I think they would 3-peat, they aint beating the 2014 Spurs but 2011 Mavs might be beatable with Magic Johnson. After all Lebron is a poor man's Magic, so replace him by a better player will help the team a lot.

[INDI]

Magic would average about 18 ppg 12 asts 7 rebs in today's league. I believe they 3 peat

Johnson/chalmers/Cole
Wade/allen
Beasley/Battier/Jones
Bosh/Haslem
Birdman/Oden

[dubeta]

I think they would 3-peat, they aint beating the 2014 Spurs but 2011 Mavs might be beatable with Magic Johnson. After all Lebron is a poor man's Magic, so replace him by a better player will help the team a lot.

Combine the best of Magic and Kobe and you still wont have a player as good as LeBron

[Kiddlovesnets]

Combine the best of Magic and Kobe and you still wont have a player as good as LeBron

:facepalm

[Soundwave]

Combine the best of Magic and Kobe and you still wont have a player as good as LeBron

Congrats on the dumbest post of the day.

Prime Kobe is basically as good as LeBron, maybe even better if you need someone to actually grow a pair and force the issue in a game or be willing to take the big shot.

The "bu ... bu ... bu Lebron passes the ball!" is sorta irrelevant because style of game is so ball dominant that it pushes other players to be shooters, so what good is all that court vision if its not helping your teammates be better players?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

one ring in 2012 MAYBE.
Magic wouldnt have won shit in 2011 when the Heat were trash in depth and he wouldnt have won shit in 13 and 14 with the way Wade played.
and dont tell me he would have elevated Wades game because outside of cuts, Wade is the worst off-ball player ever

[navy]

Lebron leads the team in pretty much every category, every year. You arent replacing him and winning the same amount.

They might win 2011, but remember they needed Lebron to guard Rose vs the Bulls. 2012 is when Wade declined and Bosh got injured. Magic would not have over come that probably. 2013 Lebron was a one man crew in most of the post season they arent winning that year. And 2014 they arent winning either.

Maybe 1 or 2 rings. Max.

[Hey Yo]

2-3.

Magic was a better floor general than LeBron is, he would allow Wade and Bosh to play in their comfort zone, in fact he would insist on it, he'd push them and make sure they were getting the ball.

That's the player Magic was, he was always keeping tabs on Kareem, Worthy, Coop, etc. to make sure they were getting the touches and the ball when and where needed. He would feed Kareem early to make sure he was engaged in a game/series.

Magic also presents a ton of match up issues. He actually goes into the post for one.
But he wouldn't be allowed to back down his defender, while pounding the rock for 7-10 seconds, like he normally did.

James got criticized for having no jumpshot for most of his career. Magic didn't have one for most of his career either.

[fpliii]

He definitely wins in 2011 IMO, and definitely doesn't this year.

The other two I'm not sure about. Depends how much you feel Miami needed LeBron's defense in those runs.

[Soundwave]

Magic would help Bosh's game a ton and he'd let Wade be the scorer/big dog role that he's more comfortable in. Just like he allowed James Worthy and Kareem to play that role.

LeBron's talents don't mesh well with Wade and Bosh, it's why Miami was never really a great team.

That and Magic brings intangibles that a lot of people underestimate.

That Heat team has no leader ... they are gutless when things get tough, Magic is a great leader and very vocal.

LeBron is the better talent, but Magic makes Miami the better team by getting more out of the supporting cast there. Ball movement would be improved too.

If you have a team with two other good players that need the ball quite a bit to score ... you really can't create a better player for them to play with than Magic.

[dubeta]

Congrats on the dumbest post of the day.

Prime Kobe is basically as good as LeBron, maybe even better if you need someone to actually grow a pair and force the issue in a game or be willing to take the big shot.

The "bu ... bu ... bu Lebron passes the ball!" is sorta irrelevant because style of game is so ball dominant that it pushes other players to be shooters, so what good is all that court vision if its not helping your teammates be better players?

Prime Kobe is a first round loser

Scoring, Rebounding, Passing, Defense

LeBron beats Kobe in every category (even scoring- similar points on much better efficiency)

[navy]

He definitely wins in 2011 IMO, and definitely doesn't this year.

The other two I'm not sure about. Depends how much you feel Miami needed LeBron's defense in those runs.
They needed Lebron's scoring, rebounding, playmaking, and defense in 2012 and especially in 2013....

Dude leads the team in every category. Not easily replaceable. :confusedshrug:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Prime Kobe is a first round loser

Scoring, Rebounding, Passing, Defense

LeBron beats Kobe in every category (even scoring- similar points on much better efficiency)
LEBrons 2014 finals>>>>> every Kobe final ever:applause:

[Soundwave]

Prime Kobe is a first round loser

Scoring, Rebounding, Passing, Defense

LeBron beats Kobe in every category (even scoring- similar points on much better efficiency)

Efficiency is bullsh*t when you're too scared to shoot because you don't want to impact your stats. Take the damn shot, grow a pair, show your opponents you're not afraid, show your teammates that you're still competing, doesn't matter if you're down 15 or 20. Don't p*ssy out.

Yes you will miss some shots, that's part of basketball.

I respect Kobe at least in that he doesn't shy away from being in the big situation and facing that pressure.

[TheMan]

Combine the best of Magic and Kobe and you still wont have a player as good as LeBron
ROFL

Stay delusional

2/5

[dubeta]

Efficiency is bullsh*t when you're too scared to shoot because you don't want to impact your stats. Take the damn shot, grow a pair, show your opponents you're not afraid.

Yes you will miss some shots, that's part of basketball.

29-year-old Kobe would wreck LeBron head to head, yes he takes some stupid shots, but I respect at least that doesn't shy away from being in the big situation and facing that pressure.

Lmao the second LeBron posts up Kobe its an automatic 2 points

look at Game 7 NBA finals to see how they both respond to pressure

[Kblaze8855]

11 id bet on. 12 quite possible. 13 im less sure about. Wade was deep in decline. 14 I dont see.

So similar success...just different years to win.

And people talking about what points would do to Magic.....

Magic wouldnt be guarding Derrick Rose to begin with.

In 2011 Magic would have guarded Bogans and Brewer with some time on Deng. Magic isnt being put on an island for Rose or Westbrook to attack.

Magic played forward at time even without another point in the game. He would slide to the 3 and 4 with Michael Cooper running point. Hed be comfortable handing the ball off to Wade and becoming a scorer at times.

Magics game isnt well understood these days.

[eliteballer]

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Just imagine what prime Magic would do on the Heat...

[Soundwave]

Lmao the second LeBron posts up Kobe its an automatic 2 points

look at Game 7 NBA finals to see how they both respond to pressure

LeBron doesn't like to post-up, it's "icky". Dude has the talent, but he wants to score his way or he's packing it up and tuning out of the game.

Kobe at least ... doesn't give a f**k. Down 10, 15, 20, whatever, he's coming at you.

Also I really don't think LeBron or anyone really could stop a prime Kobe 1-on-1, he's just too explosive of a scorer and he's a much better post player than LeBron is actually. Far better foot work.

[Solefade]

2011 probably if they got past the bulls, probably not 2012 & 2013, definitely not 2014

[Soundwave]

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Just imagine what prime Magic would do on the Heat...

He's not the talent James is, but he would make Miami a better TEAM.

Which you think some people might appreciate more after seeing San Antonio wax the Heat based on teamwork and ball movement.

Magic is the better leader, better ball distributor, still can fill up a box score.

[Trollsmasher]

they may win in '11

no chance in the next 3 years

:lol at Magic anchoring the defense

[Hey Yo]

Magic would help Bosh's game a ton and he'd let Wade be the scorer/big dog role that he's more comfortable in. Just like he allowed James Worthy and Kareem to play that role.

LeBron's talents don't mesh well with Wade and Bosh, it's why Miami was never really a great team.

That and Magic brings intangibles that a lot of people underestimate.

That Heat team has no leader ... they are gutless when things get tough, Magic is a great leader and very vocal.

LeBron is the better talent, but Magic makes Miami the better team by getting more out of the supporting cast there. Ball movement would be improved too.

If you have a team with two other good players that need the ball quite a bit to score ... you really can't create a better player for them to play with than Magic.
James creates offense for himself and others just like Magic did.

The difference is that Bosh isn't Kareem, Wade isn't prime Worthy and Chalmers isn't prime Byron Scott.

[TheMan]

11 id bet on. 12 quite possible. 13 im less sure about. Wade was deep in decline. 14 I dont see.

So similar success...just different years to win.

And people talking about what points would do to Magic.....

Magic wouldnt be guarding Derrick Rose to begin with.

In 2011 Magic would have guarded Bogans and Brewer with some time on Deng. Magic isnt being put on an island for Rose or Westbrook to attack.

Magic played forward at time even without another point in the game. He would slide to the 3 and 4 with Michael Cooper running point. Hed be comfortable handing the ball off to Wade and becoming a scorer at times.

Magics game isnt well understood these days.
Posters like dubeta (fitting name for a Bran stan) display so much ignorance when they stupidly claim LeBron >>> Magic. :facepalm Pretty much ignore garbage posters like these:rolleyes:

[Droid101]

1000

[Rocketswin2013]

I don't see them beating OKC. Who's he gonna guard? 2012 was LeBron's most dominant defensive run.

Magic on Harden? Durant? WESTBROOK? I just don't see it. So yeah one in 2011. None any other year.

[Soundwave]

James creates offense for himself and others just like Magic did.

The difference is that Bosh isn't Kareem, Wade isn't prime Worthy and Chalmers isn't prime Byron Scott.

No he doesn't actually, Magic is very, very underrated by kids on this board who don't understand the impact a REAL floor leader can have on a team.

You would think they might be taking notes after watching how Pop's unflashy Spurs team just routed them.

Magic plays to the strengths of his teammates, makes sure they are getting the ball when and where they need it. James has no clue.

Bosh ain't Kareem and Wade ain't Worthy, but they're not chopped liver either. And Magic ain't facing the 80s Celtics here, the league is far more watered down today, especially an Eastern Conference where their ticket to the NBA Finals is basically punched every year.

The Heat are just a bunch of talented individuals, but they're not a great TEAM. They got their asses handed to them this year by a great TEAM. Magic would make them a much better team.

[dc_chilling]

Lebron is much better than Magic. It's not even really close.

He scores way more, plays infinitely better defense, rebounds more, is much more efficent, and is 20x the athlete.

Even Magics best quality, passing, it's pretty close in terms of ability.

Only full on nostaligia morons would argue otherwise.

That being said, the Heat win 0 rings with Magic at point. The bigger question is, how many finals do they even get to?

[TheBigVeto]

Zero. Magic relied on a Hof center for his rings. Miami has none. So, zero.

[jstern]

Reading the first page, and most other threads, people tend to focus on just one point and laser focus on that one point, and not think about the whole picture and what Magic would bring to the game. (Like in the Dream Team vs the last Olypic team debates, it was always, "Who's going to guard Durant? Who's going to guard Durant, he's 6'11", he's 6'11". Completely focus on just that one thing, that he's 6'11" and for that one reason they will destroy the Dream Team, mean while they don't consider who's going to guard Ewing, who's going to guard Robinson, etc. It's so stupid, unable to see the whole picture.)

I'm not really familiar with Magic at a deep level, but my guess is that he wouldn't be guarding the PGs, Chalmers and others probably would. He would probably be playing Forward.

Now as far as what he would bring, from what I read from others a vastly improved game for Wade and Bosch.

I think they would win in 2011, not because he's better than Lebron, but because Lebron had a meltdown.

[Rose'sACL]

they would win in 2011 and 2013 but lose in 2012 and 2014.
in 2012, magic would have to guard westbrook or durant. Battier can't play 48 mins a game. thunder would win in 6 in 2012, may be even celtics might win over heat in 2012.
2014, manu, parker, kawhi........where would you hide magic?

[Rubio2Gasol]

4

Dwade = Top 15 all time :coleman:

[Collie]

Wade and Bosh would probably be averaging 20+ ppg.

[TheMan]

Bran stans really making a name for themselves as easily the lowest IQ fanbase here

keep it up
:applause:

[Hey Yo]

No he doesn't actually, Magic is very, very underrated by kids on this board who don't understand the impact a REAL floor leader can have on a team.

You would think they might be taking notes after watching how Pop's unflashy Spurs team just routed them.

Magic plays to the strengths of his teammates, makes sure they are getting the ball when and where they need it. James has no clue.

Bosh ain't Kareem and Wade ain't Worthy, but they're not chopped liver either. And Magic ain't facing the 80s Celtics here, the league is far more watered down today, especially an Eastern Conference where their ticket to the NBA Finals is basically punched every year.

The Heat are just a bunch of talented individuals, but they're not a great TEAM. They got their asses handed to them this year by a great TEAM. Magic would make them a much better team.
You're a clown, bro. Quit debating with me on this subject and move on.

[NumberSix]

Posters like dubeta (fitting name for a Bran stan) display so much ignorance when they stupidly claim LeBron >>> Magic. :facepalm Pretty much ignore garbage posters like these:rolleyes:
LeBron IS a better player than Magic.

I swear, you people have never actually seen 80's basketball.

[Rose'sACL]

Wade and Bosh would probably be averaging 20+ ppg.
wade would be dead before 2013 finals playing with magic as he would have to take a bigger load on defense plus magic liked to play really fast offense. if watch those lakers, you would see that their most trusted play when game slowed down(it rarely did) was to throw it to someone in the post.

[knicksman]

magic made kareem play until his 40's so also with wade. 4 rings and we wouldnt have this wade is washed up threads

[DFish24]

2-3 titles. Bran stans are on a roll of stupidity after their hero went 2/5.

[Rose'sACL]

magic made kareem play until his 40's so also with wade. 4 rings and we wouldnt have this wade is washed up threads
this. Kareem and wade have the same type of game and same knees. Listen to this guy. he is the most knowledgeable poster on this forum.

[played0ut]

2-3.


Lebron is better than magic individually i think. At scoring/defending. He's also faster and stronger.

But I think Magic's edge over lebron is he'll keep the team involved and encourage/force them to step up. He's constantly talking/encouraging/riling his teammates up.

He'd win '11, '12, maybe '13, and not '14, though the heat would do better in '14.

[Soundwave]

LeBron IS a better player than Magic.

I swear, you people have never actually seen 80's basketball.

"Better" player doesn't always mean better results.

Prime Shaq is a better player than prime Duncan, but Kobe + Duncan is probably a much better fit than Shaq + Kobe was.

Does Magic get more from Wade + Bosh than LeBron does? I think yes and in turn that very well could make that version of the Heat better.

Wade gets to slide back into the role he's most comfortable in, Bosh gets more touches, and Magic provides the Heat with leadership and a ton of triple doubles.

That's why we play the games to see who the better "team" is, not just who's the better individual player.

[Sarcastic]

Easy 4 rings. Magic was able to beat all time great teams during the 1980s. Only 1 team in the past 4 were anywhere close to that level.

[Hey Yo]

magic made kareem play until his 40's so also with wade. 4 rings and we wouldnt have this wade is washed up threads

Wade doesn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

[Soundwave]

Wade doesn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

He's also not playing the 80s Celtics or 80s Pistons. The Lakers were still very good even after Kareem retired.

[knicksman]

Wade doesn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

as if magic couldnt win with kareem as a role player. Wade is still on his prime. Its just that lebron and wade dont fit. Lebron doesnt space the floor coz hes trying to protect his FG%

[knicksman]

LOL at these idiot bran stans underrating magic.. Sorry but magic>>>>>>>>bran. 9 finals with 5 wins to 2/5

[TheMan]

LeBron IS a better player than Magic.

I swear, you people have never actually seen 80's basketball.
Better athlete, yes.
Better basketball player, no.

Magic >>> LeBron as a floor general, sure as hell won't turn Bosh and Wade into jump shooters.

Magic is better in court vision, passing, has a higher IQ and murks Bran in team leadership. It's no coincidence Magic is considered a top 5 GOAT.

[Hey Yo]

He's also not playing the 80s Celtics or 80s Pistons. The Lakers were still very good even after Kareem retired.
but Wade still doesn't or didn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

That's what made KAJ still a force after his prime, regardless who's passing it to him.

[Wally450]

:facepalm
0 rings, out of the first round every season

Drose, westbrook, parker, would all blow by Magic

Once wade declines, no scorer on the team

[Soundwave]

but Wade still doesn't or didn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

That's what made KAJ still a force after his prime, regardless who's passing it to him.

Wade is still capable of dropping 20 a night, with Magic he'd be able to go back to playing the role he's more comfortable with (even if he has declined). Wade just doesn't play that well with LeBron, you can just see it's not a great fit, they do win a lot based on just sheer talent alone.

[knicksman]

but Wade still doesn't or didn't have the most un-stoppable shot in NBA history.

That's what made KAJ still a force after his prime.

but wade won without lebron. I mean its the reason why bran join wade to let him take over when the going is tough. Too Bad wade is tired of bron getting all the credit despite his stats being produced during garbage time.

[Hey Yo]

Better athlete, yes.
Better basketball player, no.

Magic >>> LeBron as a floor general, sure as hell won't turn Bosh and Wade into jump shooters.

Magic is better in court vision, passing, has a higher IQ and murks Bran in team leadership. It's no coincidence Magic is considered a top 5 GOAT.



They were both jump shooters before LeBron.

Magic couldn't or didn't try to play defense.

How can a guy who was awful on defense be considered top 5?

[Soundwave]

They were both jump shooters before LeBron.

Magic couldn't or didn't try to play defense.

How can a guy who was awful on defense be considered top 5?

How can a guy who's 2/5 in the Finals be considered top 8? :lol

[buddha]

0 rings, out of the first round every season

Drose, westbrook, parker, would all blow by Magic

Once wade declines, no scorer on the team

Magic would technically play SF on the Heat while Chalmers would still start.

[Black and White]

They were both jump shooters before LeBron.

Magic couldn't or didn't try to play defense.

How can a guy who was awful on defense be considered top 5?

This shows you didnt start watching basketball till 2010.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

How can a guy who's 2/5 in the Finals be considered top 8? :lol
Wilt Chamberlain??

[Hey Yo]

Wade is still capable of dropping 20 a night, with Magic he'd be able to go back to playing the role he's more comfortable with (even if he has declined). Wade just doesn't play that well with LeBron, you can just see it's not a great fit, they do win a lot based on just sheer talent alone.
You're so reaching man.

Wade missing shots constantly in the paint in this years Finals doesn't make him converting those shots just because Magic is passing the ball to him.

[Hey Yo]

This shows you didnt start watching basketball till 2010.
Wade and Bosh didn't shoot jumpers prior to 2011?

[Hey Yo]

How can a guy who's 2/5 in the Finals be considered top 8? :lol
Like I said...move on, brah

[Black and White]

Wade and Bosh didn't shoot jumpers prior to 2011?

Your post suggested that they were simply jumpshooters before teaming up with LeBron.

[Warfan]

It's tough because the both played different roles for their team. Lebrons role on the team is to be aggressive scoring wise while playing great D, rebounding and playmaking. Magic wasnt able to do two of those things nearly as well as him, but was obviously a much better playmaker and more unselfish, and could rebound the ball pretty well. Id say winning 2 championships is a safe number, I don't think they win in 2012 or in 2014, and I don't think he makes the finals 4 times either...


Wade is still capable of dropping 20 a night, with Magic he'd be able to go back to playing the role he's more comfortable with (even if he has declined). Wade just doesn't play that well with LeBron, you can just see it's not a great fit, they do win a lot based on just sheer talent alone.

He did it this year too in the regular season, and against Indiana as well.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Theyd threepeat from 11-13
unlike Lebron Magic actually makes his teammates better

[Hey Yo]

Your post suggested that they were simply jumpshooters before teaming up with LeBron.
You're right. Could have worded it better.

Bosh had always had a nice mid range jumper. Wade relied more on attacking but had a nice mid-range jumper also

[mehyaM24]

as much as i like lebron, he choked in 2011
magic wouldnt have a meltdown like that ("tragic johnson" was overblown and it was against boston, an alltime great team)

2-3 imo

[JT123]

Better athlete, yes.
Better basketball player, no.

Magic >>> LeBron as a floor general, sure as hell won't turn Bosh and Wade into jump shooters.

Magic is better in court vision, passing, has a higher IQ and murks Bran in team leadership. It's no coincidence Magic is considered a top 5 GOAT.
Another imbecile trying to call Wade a spot up shooter. :oldlol: Some of you guys should actually try watching Wade's game before making such dumb claims.

[JT123]

as much as i like lebron, he choked in 2011
magic wouldnt have a meltdown like that ("tragic johnson" was overblown and it was against boston, an alltime great team)

2-3 imo
What you are forgetting is that Magic wasn't an elite scorer. Magic putting up Lebron's 2011 Finals stats wouldn't be considered a choke for him.

[Trollsmasher]

I guess Magic's magic is somehow going to make his teammates not miss wide open shots and he is also somehow going to make the team better on defense:lol

[BigBoss]

More rings then the Orlando Magic sorry excuse for an organization

[Dragonyeuw]

The Mavs won 4-2 in 2011 with Lebron playing like garbage. Magic playing up to his ability would have won that series for Miami....then again, Lebron playing 'decently' would have won that series too. He doesn't win this year against the Spurs, they just played out of their minds in the finals.

[DatAsh]

Better offensive player, worse on defense, and meshes better with the other Heat players. I imagine he'd have similar success.

[Micku]

Maybe two. I think in 2011 and 2012. I don't really see 2013, but it's possible. I don't think he'll win in 2014.

The biggest thing is that the Heat would play so differently if Magic was on the team. He would give Bosh and Wade more touches. The fastbreak would've been more frequent too.

If he still played the point, then someone has to play the SF. My guess is that the team would've been more fluid on the offensive end, and worst on the defensive end tho Magic was a solid help defender.

[plowking]

2011.

I don't think they win any others.

[r0drig0lac]

there is no clear answer, but as one poster pointed out, magic keep other players involved, and not just playing as snipers, might work, might not