Kobe and Duncan are the Greatest of their Era

[HOoopCityJones]

Yea, Shaq had better stats and the better prime, but anyone can see he underachieved career wise. Besides, if that's all that mattered more people would have Karl Malone or Wilt Chamberlain as number one, but they don't.

These guys have playoffs, championships , repeats, longevity, tenure with one Team, stats, accolades, impact etc.

Isn't this what ISH claims to be the bread and butter of Top 5 GOAT status?

I feel the hate needs to stop on both sides and we need to appreciate this dying breed of player.


Some people need to be bumped (Bird and Magic) because these two should be considered Top 5 All-Time.

[Rondo]

These guys have playoffs, championships , repeats, longevity, tenure with one Team, stats, accolades, impact etc.

Don't think Duncan ever has.

[HOoopCityJones]

Don't think Duncan ever has.

That's for Kob.

[longhornfan1234]

Give me Shaq over Kobe. He won 3 rings as the man and had superior peak/prime. Shaq was much more dominant.

[AlphaWolf24]

easily #5 and #6 all time....

the fact that No one here ever saw Russell, Wilt , Kareem , Oscar play shows the true lack of understanding.

If we were to make an All time list of the Modern era from 1980 - 2000's

Kobe and Timmy would be top 5....no doubt about it.

[HOoopCityJones]

Give me Shaq over Kobe. He won 3 rings as the man and had superior peak/prime. Shaq was very more dominant.

He couldn't win shizz without a dominant SG and then couldn't do shit after said SG left his side. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed him, as we saw with him repeating with phucking Pau Gasol.

Coulda been a threepeat.

[AlphaWolf24]

Give me Shaq over Kobe. He won 3 rings as the man and had superior peak/prime. Shaq was very more dominant.


During the 01' and 02' Championship runs..

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 52% Fg in the 4th quarters

Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29% fg in the 4th quarters

Kobe also took more shots then Shaq and was the facilitator of the offense.

[longhornfan1234]

He couldn't win shizz without a dominant SG and then couldn't do shit after said SG left his side. Shaq needed Kobe just as much as Kobe needed him, as we saw with him repeating with phucking Pau Gasol.

Coulda been a threepeat.


. He didn't do shit after Wade because he was no longer in his prime anymore.

Kobe fans love down play Gasol's impact. Two peat Gasol averaged 18/10/3/ 62 TS% during the season and 19/11/3/60 TS% as the second option in the playoffs. Gasol was the most skilled post player and best passing big man during those two years. Gasol outplayed Howard and KG in '09 Finals and '10 Finals.

[Rondo]

That's for Kob.

Ah, my bad. I agree with your points though.

[longhornfan1234]

During the 01' and 02' Championship runs..

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 52% Fg in the 4th quarters

Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29% fg in the 4th quarters

Kobe also took more shots then Shaq and was the facilitator of the offense.
Still doesn't take away Shaq was the better player on the team and got most of defensive attention.

[SCdac]

Duncan & Shaq were on 8 of the championship teams from 99-09, and collected 6 of the Finals MVPs. It was definitely their era.

[HOoopCityJones]

. He didn't do shit after Wade because he was no longer in his prime anymore

Ahh, my bad, why don't you refer to Kobe and Duncan about that, since that's exactly why Shaq shouldn't be considered above them, because of their GOAT longevity.



Kobe post prime: 5.6 rb ast 6.0 1.4 stl .3 blk 27.3 pts


Duncan post prime:14.5 rb ast 3.3 .9 stl 2.1 blk 20.2 pts


Shaq post prime: 7.8 rb ast 1.4 .6 stl 1.6 blk 14.2 pts



:coleman: Come on cuh

[Jlamb47]

Duncan and Kobe

When you think of 00's everyone loves Kobe. Hes probably the most popular player ouf of Shaq,Duncan,Kobe
Kobe was more of the Jordan of our era

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan & Shaq were on 8 of the championship teams from 99-09, and collected 6 of the Finals MVPs. It was definitely their era.

Without Kobe, Shaq's only been on one.

Without Shaq , Kobe's been on two, a repeat at that.

[longhornfan1234]

Ahh, my bad, why don't you refer to Kobe and Duncan about that, since that's exactly why Shaq shouldn't be considered above them, because of their GOAT longevity.

Kobe post prime: 5.6 6.0 1.4 .3 27.3


Duncan post prime: 14.5 3.3 .9 2.1 20.2


Shaq post prime: 7.8 1.4 .6 1.6 14.2



:coleman: Come on cuh


Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.

[HOoopCityJones]

Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.

:lol Uhh, no it doesn't.

Not when they have comparable volume.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.


Ok...so do you have Wilt Chamberlain over Michael Jordan then?



since Wilt's peak was the most Dominant ever.....hos does MJ compare to 50PPG and 20reb?

if MJ>Wilt.....then Kobe>Shaq.

It's the same exact thang!

[tpols]

Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.

Shaq put up amazing stats no matter if he was winning or getting swept in the finals.. But he couldn't close games and was a liability at the end of games.

W/o an elite guard to close for him they easily lose to Portland in 2000, and definitely lose in 2002..

Shaq needed two of the top 3 SGs of all time to win his 4 rings.. Kobe almost led a three peat with a top 20 PF of all time.

[HOoopCityJones]

Ok...so do you have Wilt Chamberlain over Michael Jordan then?



since Wilt's peak was the most Dominant ever.....hos does MJ compare to 50PPG and 20reb?

if MJ>Wilt.....then Kobe>Shaq.

It's the same exact thang!

Exactly.

If this was all about peak and stats , MJ would not be number 1.

[AlphaWolf24]

Exactly.

If this was all about peak and stats , MJ would not be number 1.


it's weird..all these people talk about is "PEAK"...but none of them say wilt is the GOAT.

Wilt's Peak play is the most Dominant ever.

it makes zero sense.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell

What two players are getting replaced out of that group?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kobe aint top 10 all time nikka:roll: :roll: :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell

What two players are getting replaced out of that group?

Come on man, Kobe and Duncan have long surpassed Bird and Magic.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Russell

What two players are getting replaced out of that group?

IMO...

Bird is gone.

Not sure if we need to take anyone else out.

KB and TD are prolly #5 and #6 at this point

[IllegalD]

Kobe aint top 10 all time nikka:roll: :roll: :lol

2/5 nikka :lol :roll: :oldlol: :rockon: :banana: :applause: :pimp:

[Artillery]

lol at Kobe. Not even a top 5 player of his generation.

Greatest post-Jordan era players in this order:

1. Lebron
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Garnett
5. Dirk
6. Kobe

Only one that's debatable is possibly switching Dirk for Garnett but I gave KG the pass due to his defense.

[T_L_P]

lol at Kobe. Not even a top 5 player of his generation.

Greatest post-Jordan era players in this order:

1. Lebron
2. Duncan
3. Shaq
4. Garnett
5. Dirk
6. Kobe

Only one that's debatable is possibly switching Dirk for Garnett but I gave KG the pass due to his defense.

What Duncan has done from 98-14 is worth more than what LeBron did from 04-14.

You can say LeBron will end up higher, but there's no much of a case for LeBron with six less seasons.

[Artillery]

What Duncan has done from 98-14 is worth more than what LeBron did from 04-14.

You can say LeBron will end up higher, but there's no much of a case for LeBron with six less seasons.

Team success might push Duncan ahead of Lebron but my ranking is based on impact alone. There's no doubt that LBJ is one of the most impactful players in league history.

[Purch]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-stnYJ8P-xl8/U56fgmTVTlI/AAAAAAAAC-g/qamXrIgkdbI/s1600/14.jpg

[havoc33]

Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.
No, he was not. You can argue 8-10 MAX. He wasn't even the best center in the league in his first years. His peak was very good, but he didn't stay there for all that long. With better conditioning and proper dedication on the defensive end he could have easily been up for GOAT, but as it is he never reached that kind of level. Both Duncan and Kobe has had the better careers overall.

[SexSymbol]

Team success might push Duncan ahead of Lebron but my ranking is based on impact alone. There's no doubt that LBJ is one of the most impactful players in league history.
There's actually a lot of doubt on that

[T_L_P]

Team success might push Duncan ahead of Lebron but my ranking is based on impact alone. There's no doubt that LBJ is one of the most impactful players in league history.

If LeBron retired right now you are not taking his 11 years over Duncan's 17. LeBron's impact during his prime isn't that much better than Duncan's, if at all. Therefore at this point Duncan is the better player post Jordan. :confusedshrug:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq's prime/peak was so dominant it outweighs Kobe's and Duncan's longevity. Shaq's longevity is being underrated. He was top 5 player for 12 seasons.

Well said, someone with sense here. I wouldn't really use the word outweighs but SHaq's peak was definitely better than either Duncan's or Kobe's, and certainly top5 all-time... Plus like you've said, his longevity is getting underrated here :facepalm

[Anaximandro1]

Duncan and Shaq are the greatest player of their era. Kobe doesn't even belong in this conversation.

Shaq carried the weight of the Lakers franchise on his shoulders during the 3-peat. Those titles belong to Shaq ... Kobe was the complementary player.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-_tQW6aj3bJc/U6gypJmZbPI/AAAAAAAADDQ/3UdlGQ5qFMc/s1600/1.jpg



In 2003, the one man army took over.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-NsYMTFyEsoc/U6gypYFajtI/AAAAAAAADDU/lXqVIr9VorQ/s1600/2.jpg



Duncan and Shaq are in the same ballpark ... Timmy's longevity made the difference in the end.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UdhHggT0TMY/U6g1Byio7xI/AAAAAAAADDs/ct6OQfZ-lRY/s1600/3.jpg

[ArbitraryWater]

During the 01' and 02' Championship runs..

Kobe averaged 9.2 ppg on 52% Fg in the 4th quarters

Shaq averaged 4.5 ppg on 29% fg in the 4th quarters

Kobe also took more shots then Shaq and was the facilitator of the offense.

This was already exposed and you keep posting blatant lies? :facepalm

Sad

[JohnFreeman]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10398048_1467855363459257_7635562019511494205_n.jp g

[DMAVS41]

Duncan & Shaq were on 8 of the championship teams from 99-09, and collected 6 of the Finals MVPs. It was definitely their era.

This.

[miles berg]

Shaq and Duncan.

[HOoopCityJones]

Shaq wasn't shit without Kobe or a prime Dwade and underachieved after he left their side.

[JohnFreeman]

Shaq and Duncan. Next.

[HOoopCityJones]

Shaq and Duncan. Next.

5=5 + GOAT longevity > 4


Every organization in the league > Kings

:lol Next

[rmt]

Shaq and Duncan.

This.

[HOoopCityJones]

You bums bring up Kobe more than any of the clowns you claimed "owned" this Era.


Kobe living rent free in all ya'll head. :roll:

[DMAVS41]

You bums bring up Kobe more than any of the clowns you claimed "owned" this Era.


Kobe living rent free in all ya'll head. :roll:

there was a clear "era shift" after the 98 season.

from 99 through 07...shaq and duncan dominated. that was definitely long enough for an era.

and, even in 08, the Spurs made the WCF.

then you had the Kobe led Lakers and Celtics battling it out for 3 years essentially...

And since then it's been the clear cut time of Lebron

Personally...I don't think a 3 year stint...is an era.

There is no "kobe era" in NBA history...

[HOoopCityJones]

there was a clear "era shift" after the 98 season.

from 99 through 07...shaq and duncan dominated. that was definitely long enough for an era.

and, even in 08, the Spurs made the WCF.

then you had the Kobe led Lakers and Celtics battling it out for 3 years essentially...

And since then it's been the clear cut time of Lebron

Personally...I don't think a 3 year stint...is an era.

There is no "kobe era" in NBA history...


We know who definitely never had an Era.

Dirk. :roll:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Shaq, Duncan and LeBron will all be remembered as being not just better but much better in the long run. Most objective people ALREADY have LeBron over Kobe and LeBron is only like 2/3s of the way through his career.

[Heavincent]

Most objective people ALREADY have LeBron over Kobe and LeBron is only like 2/3s of the way through his career.

lol keep talking out of your ass.

"But some guys on RealGM said it!"

[SCdac]

Kobe has definitely been recognized for his greatness amongst all the great SG's the last 15 years (Iverson, Tmac, etc), and rightly so, but at the end of the day I agree with Roundmound it's Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron that will stand out from 2000 till now.

General Managers through out the years knew who they wanted...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/NBAGMSurvey.jpg

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lol keep talking out of your ass.

"But some guys on RealGM said it!"
Pretty much every poster I've seen who isn't a noted Kobe fan has said LeBron will rank higher when it's said and done. I sometimes point to what posters on realgm say because they have a sub-forum dedicated to player comparisons and posters there really aren't stans/haters of certain players like they are here. It's probably the most objective forum on the internet.

[Heavincent]

Pretty much every poster I've seen who isn't a noted Kobe fan has said LeBron will rank higher when it's said and done.

Yeah, mostly Lebron stans. Most neutral posters don't even enter Lebron/Kobe threads.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah, mostly Lebron stans. Most neutral posters don't even enter Lebron/Kobe threads.
First of all, Laker fans outnumber any other fanbase on here. Even the LeBron/Heat fanbase. I specifically used the word objective i.e. not stans or haters on either player. I bet if we did a poll among them: "Who will rank higher when it's all said" or "Who was better in their Peak/Prime" it would be decisive for LeBron in both.

[Heavincent]

First of all, Laker fans outnumber any other fanbase on here. Even the LeBron/Heat fanbase. I specifically used the word objective i.e. not stans or haters on either player. I bet if we did a poll among them: "Who will rank higher when it's all said" or "Who was better in their Peak/Prime" it would be decisive for LeBron in both.

This is nothing more than conjecture.

[Knicks014Champs]

If you consider Melo to be in another era then yes definetly, but i still got shaq and duncan.

[Artillery]

Interestingly enough, the 1997 to 2014 RAPM numbers confirm what everybody's known all along. That Lebron, Duncan, Shaq are the best post-Jordan era players. Here's the list for players of this era that have played more than 70 000 possessions:

+5.63 - Lebron
+5.09 - Duncan
+5.08 - Shaq
+4.75 - Garnett
+4.22 - Nowitzki
+3.36 - Rasheed Wallace
+2.96 - Kobe
+2.77 - Nash
+2.65 - Carter
+2.58 - Kidd
+2.37 - Pierce
+2.15 - Parker
+2.07 - Ben Wallace
+1.76 - Gasol
+1.76 - Allen
+1.15 - Joe Johnson
+1.04 - Marion
+0.95 - Billups
+0.94 - Iverson
+0.20 - Jamison
+0.04 - Terry

[NumberSix]

Without Kobe, Shaq's only been on one.

Without Shaq , Kobe's been on two, a repeat at that.
Shaq can win without Fisher. Kobe can't.

[red1]

Kobe has definitely been recognized for his greatness amongst all the great SG's the last 15 years (Iverson, Tmac, etc), and rightly so, but at the end of the day I agree with Roundmound it's Duncan, Shaq, and Lebron that will stand out from 2000 till now.

General Managers through out the years knew who they wanted...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/NBAGMSurvey.jpg
kobe is on that level obviously but I do rate duncan and lebron slightly higher. shaq is a no-brainer

[PsychoBe]

the consensus player of the decade wasn't the greatest of his era? :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://mediaoutrage.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kobedecade.jpg

[T_L_P]

the consensus player of the decade wasn't the greatest of his era? :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://mediaoutrage.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kobedecade.jpg

So a fan poll = consensus?

It's funny because literally every person on the TNT crew laughed at the idea of Bean being the player of the decade.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Anyone who isn't a complete retard knows that Shaq and Duncan were the greatest players last decade, and that Lebron will be for the current decade.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

So a fan poll = consensus?

It's funny because literally every person on the TNT crew laughed at the idea of Bean being the player of the decade.
A fan poll with the most popular player, just coming of his highest point of the decade, playing in the largest market in the NBA winning it :oldlol:

Duncan is probably the player of the decade for 01-10.

if it was 00-09 I could see Shaq as well.

[Prometheus]

I thought this forum would be really fun to be a part of when I signed up. It's shit like this that changed my mind, and why I hardly come here anymore. The California ******s and the legion of Kobetards will just not shut up. Shaq and Duncan were so much better than Kobe, and everyone with their head screwed on half-right can see that with no problem.

[zoom17]

I thought this forum would be really fun to be a part of when I signed up. It's shit like this that changed my mind, and why I hardly come here anymore. The California ******s and the legion of Kobetards will just not shut up. Shaq and Duncan were so much better than Kobe, and everyone with their head screwed on half-right can see that with no problem.


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01423/Taxi_1423678i.jpg

[PsychoBe]

So a fan poll = consensus?

It's funny because literally every person on the TNT crew laughed at the idea of Bean being the player of the decade.

literally none of those players played against a peak kobe, but they've all played against a prime/peak shaq first hand which is why they believe what they do. but the rest of the fans who saw kobe from 00'-09' voted him easily without a second thought.


A fan poll with the most popular player, just coming of his highest point of the decade, playing in the largest market in the NBA winning it :oldlol:

Duncan is probably the player of the decade for 01-10.

if it was 00-09 I could see Shaq as well.

the poll was made before kobe repeated and they all voted kobe as the player of the decade then he went on to close the decade with a repeat which validated all the fans's points but i guess that doesn't matter to you :roll: :roll: :roll:

just face it. shaq was a shell of his former self post-2006 while kobe entered his prime. what you have to realize is shaq was almost 8 seasons in when the new millennium started, so it was only natural that he would fizzle out in the middle of it. the only other player that had an arguement was duncan but he never three-peated nor repeated so in the end you have to give the nod to kobe.

[NumberSix]

the consensus player of the decade wasn't the greatest of his era? :roll: :roll: :roll:

http://mediaoutrage.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/kobedecade.jpg
Between 2000-2009 Shaq has 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs. Nobody else can make such a claim. Kobe has 4 chips and 1 FMVP. Duncan has 3 chips and 2 FMVPs.

I'd rank them like this.

1. Shaq - 4 chips, 3 FMVPs, 1 MVP.
2. Duncan - 3 chips, 2 FMVPs, 2 MVPs.
3. Kobe - 4 chips, 1 FMVP, 1 MVP.

Shaq is the player of the 2000-2009 decade. It's not debatable.

[zoom17]

Between 2000-2009 Shaq has 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs. Nobody else can make such a claim. Kobe has 4 chips and 1 FMVP. Duncan has 3 chips and 2 FMVPs.

I'd rank them like this.

1. Shaq - 4 chips, 3 FMVPs, 1 MVP.
2. Duncan - 3 chips, 2 FMVPs, 2 MVPs.
3. Kobe - 4 chips, 1 FMVP, 1 MVP.

Shaq is the player of the 2000-2009 decade. It's not debatable.

:applause:

[onhcetum]

why do people keep forgetting that shaq started his career in 1992? came straight outta college and was already averaging 24ppg and 10...

and come 2009, he averaged 17ppg and made the allstar team

[onhcetum]

Between 2000-2009 Shaq has 4 championships and 3 finals MVPs. Nobody else can make such a claim. Kobe has 4 chips and 1 FMVP. Duncan has 3 chips and 2 FMVPs.

I'd rank them like this.

1. Shaq - 4 chips, 3 FMVPs, 1 MVP.
2. Duncan - 3 chips, 2 FMVPs, 2 MVPs.
3. Kobe - 4 chips, 1 FMVP, 1 MVP.

Shaq is the player of the 2000-2009 decade. It's not debatable.

that's two top 15 all time players vs. one top 15 all time player... give duncan a guard who was as good as him or better (i.e. jordan or oscar) and we are talking a minimum of 7 rings since duncan has 5 rings without anyone of that calibur

[NumberSix]

that's two top 15 all time players vs. one top 15 all time player... give duncan a guard who was as good as him or better (i.e. jordan or oscar) and we are talking a minimum of 7 rings since duncan has 5 rings without anyone of that calibur
Manu was just as good as Timmy for the 2005 championship and Parker was their best player in 2007. Timmy was pretty much a solo act in 2003, but so was Shaq in 2000.

[onhcetum]

Manu was just as good as Timmy for the 2005 championship and Parker was their best player in 2007. Timmy was pretty much a solo act in 2003, but so was Shaq in 2000.

duncan was an allstar, made 1st team, and all defensive, put up more points, rebounds, and higher PER

cmon dude, when we talk about the best guards in the game, you hear the currys, john walls, hardens, lillard, chris paul, mcgrady, deron williams, rondo, kyrie, iverson,

and now suddenly we gon act like manu and parker are premier superstars?

[T_L_P]

Manu was just as good as Timmy for the 2005 championship and Parker was their best player in 2007. Timmy was pretty much a solo act in 2003, but so was Shaq in 2000.


Please explain this. Make Parker's case.

[rmt]

Manu was just as good as Timmy for the 2005 championship and Parker was their best player in 2007. Timmy was pretty much a solo act in 2003, but so was Shaq in 2000.

2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts / 12.4 rebs / 2.7 assts / 2.3 blks 46.4%FG
Manu 20.8 pts / 5.8 rebs / 4.2 assts 50.7%

2006-07 Regular season
Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 assts / 2.4 blks 54.6%FG All-NBA 1st, All-Defensive 1st, 4th in MVP voting
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 assts 52%

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 assts / 3.1 blks 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.1 assts 48%

[Cold soul]

1) Kobe
2) Duncan
3) Shaq

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-youre-welcome.gif

[Cold soul]

I thought this forum would be really fun to be a part of when I signed up. It's shit like this that changed my mind, and why I hardly come here anymore. The California ******s and the legion of Kobetards will just not shut up. Shaq and Duncan were so much better than Kobe, and everyone with their head screwed on half-right can see that with no problem.

Lol at this idiot troll you actually believe this BS you are saying. That's just sad... :oldlol:

[SuperPippen]

The mindless drones from LA are just never gonna be able to reconcile themselves with the fact that Duncan and Shaq were greater than Kobe.

[zoom17]

1) Kobe
2) Duncan
3) Shaq

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kobe-youre-welcome.gif

:facepalm :oldlol:

[Cold soul]

:facepalm :oldlol:

The truth hurts I know. The Kobe haters have had to live with that fact for long time now it must really suck for them. :oldlol:

[gts]

So a fan poll = consensus?

It's funny because literally every person on the TNT crew laughed at the idea of Bean being the player of the decade.

No they didn't... stop making things up

[houston]

We know who definitely never had an Era.

Dirk. :roll:


:oldlol: