For the OGs out there

[Xoush]

What the **** has changed since the 90s? Why are these players in their prime do everything to avoid competition/adversity? Maybe the old dawgs have answers...

[navy]

What the **** has changed since the 90s? Why are these players in their prime do everything to avoid competition/adversity? Maybe the old dawgs have answers...
If the players in the 90s were smart they would have done the same instead of letting Jordan run through them.

What do they have to show for it? No rings and the right to call themselves an OG?

[Jlamb47]

If the players in the 90s were smart they would have done the same instead of letting Jordan run through them.

What do they have to show for it? No rings and the right to call themselves an OG?

Lol i feels you on this, but its called having pride
To be the best you gotta beat the best

[Roundball_Rock]

1) free agency 2) societal trends. Free agency as we know it did not even exist until the late 80's. Players spent their entire careers with their teams in the NBA; the same was true with the NFL (which is the main reason the NFL went from a series of dynasties to a wide open league). The other major reason is society has changed. People increasingly change jobs. Not only are people less loyal to employers, employers are less loyal to employees. Most people on this board are between 15-35. How many of you expect to spend your entire career with one company? How many even expect to spent 10 years with the same entity? So if you accept the notion of frequent movement between jobs it is only logical to seek to move to superior, not comparable situations.


If the players in the 90s were smart they would have done the same instead of letting Jordan run through them.

The Bulls couldn't have afforded to do that. They in fact were lucky with the quirky Pippen contract that they were able to afford him. In 1998 he was only the 122nd highest paid player in the league. Remember, MJ was getting paid $30 million a year.

[Xoush]

Where is the point of winning if you stack the shit out of your team? It lessens your accomplishments significantly if you go down that route.

[navy]

The Bulls couldn't have afforded to do that. They in fact were lucky with the quirky Pippen contract that they were able to afford him. In 1998 he was only the 122nd highest paid player in the league. Remember, MJ was getting paid $30 million a year.
Afforded to do what?

[SouBeachTalents]

Where is the point of winning if you stack the shit out of your team? It lessens your accomplishments significantly if you go down that route.

So then Bird and Magic should have demanded trades to shlttler teams so they could accomplish more "significant" championships

[Xoush]

Are you comparing Lebron's ring chasing to Bird/Magic?

[Lebron23]

Where is the point of winning if you stack the shit out of your team? It lessens your accomplishments significantly if you go down that route.


Just like your 2004 and 2013 Los Angeles Lakers

[navy]

Where is the point of winning if you stack the shit out of your team? It lessens your accomplishments significantly if you go down that route.
Not really. A championship is a rare thing and it is often won by stacked teams. There is no parity in the nba. Why would a player accept this if they want to win? Do champions ever complain about being on a stacked team?

[Lebron23]

Are you comparing Lebron's ring chasing to Bird/Magic?


Hey idiot,

He was a free agent and he just picked the team's that available to him.

He still won 2 finals MVP at age 29, AND DOUCHEFACE Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers are more stacked than Lebron's heat

I think you need to stop posting in this forum. I cringed every time I read your posts. You are just a lamer version of Win-Win.

[Derka]

Hey idiot,

He was a free agent and he just picked the team's that available to him.

He still won 2 finals MVP at age 29, AND DOUCHEFACE Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers are more stacked than Lebron's heat

I think you need to stop posting in this forum. I cringed every time I read your posts. You are just a lamer version of Win-Win.

Both teams built by GMs who were brilliant at moving players around and trading for the talent they needed to beat the other, not by players practically tripping over themselves to get out of each other's way.

Completely different situations, you dolt.

[Roundball_Rock]

Afforded to do what?

Pay MJ $30 million and then pay a second $20+ million contract.

[Lebron23]

Both teams built by GMs who were brilliant at moving players around and trading for the talent they needed to beat the other, not by players practically tripping over themselves to get out of each other's way.

Completely different situations, you dolt.


They were all free agents during that time. Your 2007 Celtics started the trend and Lebron and Wade teamed up because they both losses to the stacked Celtics.

[navy]

So players should pray they get a good GM to stack the deck for them? If not what? Accept losing? :oldlol:

[navy]

Pay MJ and then pay a second max contract.
No, no, no.

I meant other teams or players should have gotten together to beat MJ's Bulls if they wanted to win. Not that the Bulls needed another max player.

[SouBeachTalents]

Both teams built by GMs who were brilliant at moving players around and trading for the talent they needed to beat the other, not by players practically tripping over themselves to get out of each other's way.

Completely different situations, you dolt.

So why should LeBron be held accountable for incompetent management? I'm sure if Cleveland was able to land a HOF player like Parish, Worthy, McHale, or Kareem LeBron wouldn't have left Cleveland.

[Xoush]

Hey idiot,

He was a free agent and he just picked the team's that available to him.

He still won 2 finals MVP at age 29, AND DOUCHEFACE Bird's Celtics and Magic's Lakers are more stacked than Lebron's heat

I think you need to stop posting in this forum. I cringed every time I read your posts. You are just a lamer version of Win-Win.

If you don't have anything of value to contribute to this tread, go back and suck on LeBron's dick some more.

Back to the topic. @Lebron fans/stans: Would you think lesser of him, if he joined a team full of All-Stars? Or does it even matter how much help he has/will have? If he won with little to no help, you guys would never stop to bring up that fact. How can you be mad when other people do bring up this very thing?

[Roundball_Rock]

No, no, no.

I meant other teams or players should have gotten together to beat MJ's Bulls if they wanted to win. Not that the Bulls needed another max player.

Oh yeah. They should have to compete with the Bulls' two superstars and three all-stars.

[Derka]

They were all free agents during that time. Your 2007 Celtics started the trend and Lebron and Wade teamed up because they both losses to the stacked Celtics.

:facepalm The only thing you're right about is that the current Heat formed because the Celtics kept crushing their dreams. Everything else you've posted is just wrong.

BTW, where's your old Cavs avatar, holmes?

[Dr Seuss]

Hey idiot,

He was a free agent and he just picked the team's that available to him.


more like he (Lebron) assembled a team that would hopefully glide to the finals - and they did for 4 straight years. thats hugely different than a GM assembling a team, and this lack of admittance of this by bandwagoning miami fans is what drives everyone crazy.

the best player in the world, in his prime, decided to join up with two other top players in their positions, while also in their prime. why? to insure a trip to the finals. could lebron have won if a GM put a competent team around him? certainly. will we ever know now? nope.

[Lebron23]

If you don't have anything of value to contribute to this tread, go back and suck on LeBron's dick some more.

Back to the topic. @Lebron fans/stans: Would you think lesser of him, if he joined a team full of All-Stars? Or does it even matter how much help he has/will have? If he won with little to no help, you guys would never stop to bring up that fact. How can you be mad when other people do bring up this very thing?



http://www.quickmeme.com/img/09/0961e656f12a0888bea08486bc04354c3583e1bff041f09891 e877c4e4d3e774.jpg


Basketball is a team sports. Pansies like you won't understand it. Lebron played for 7 years in Cleveland and despite being the best player in the league he failed to win an NBA title.

Lebron put up better stats and had more impact than your lover boy Bryant against the Same Celtics and Magic team. And his team still losses the series

[Lebron23]

more like he (Lebron) assembled a team that would hopefully glide to the finals - and they did for 4 straight years. thats hugely different than a GM assembling a team, and this lack of admittance of this by bandwagoning miami fans is what drives everyone crazy.

the best player in the world, in his prime, decided to join up with two other top players in their positions, while also in their prime. why? to insure a trip to the finals. could lebron have won if a GM put a competent team around him? certainly. will we ever know now? nope.


No one wanted to play in Cleveland. Amare turned down the offer while Bosh immediately signed with the Heat.

[Derka]

So why should LeBron be held accountable for incompetent management? I'm sure if Cleveland was able to land a HOF player like Parish, Worthy, McHale, or Kareem LeBron wouldn't have left Cleveland.

I'm not holding Lebron accountable for anything, merely pointing out why what the Heat's Big 3 did is in no way comparable to what those two teams did in their day. At all.

[Xoush]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/09/0961e656f12a0888bea08486bc04354c3583e1bff041f09891 e877c4e4d3e774.jpg


Basketball is a team sports. Pansies like you won't understand it. Lebron played for 7 years in Cleveland and despite being the best player in the league he failed to win an NBA title.

Lebron put u better stats than your lover boy Bryant against the Same Celtics and Magic team.

Hey madboy, unlike you I don't worship players. I enjoy Kobe's game, he is not a deity.

I did not SUGGEST he stays all his career in Cleveland (who would lol), but colluding previously and reports of him going down that route again DOES raise questions regarding his greatness. Noone denies he is a great player, but perhaps not as great as many have thought.

[Ken_Masters]

To me it feels different when all stars join up in order to win a ring (past their prime Garnett, Allen, and Pierce) than superstars joining up to win a ring (James and Wade). Wade could have used another all star or two, but he didn't need to join up with another superstar IMO. Same for James.

Jordan, Bird, Hakeem, etc were all superstars so i would never want to see more than 1 superstar on any given team. Sometimes those superstars are drafted to the same team and it's unavoidable like OKC, but when given the chance in free agency i would like to see superstars stay spread out a little bit more. I don't have a problem if they join other all star caliber players though.

[Roundball_Rock]

I'm sure if Cleveland was able to land a HOF player like Parish, Worthy, McHale, or Kareem LeBron wouldn't have left Cleveland.

Cleveland got Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, a Shaq on his last legs, and Antwan Jamison--and people get mad at LeBron fleeing that incompetent organization? :roll:


(past their prime Garnett, Allen, and Pierce)

Garnett was a MVP candidate in 2008.

[Lebron23]

Hey madboy, unlike you I don't worship players. I enjoy Kobe's game, he is not a deity.

I did not SUGGEST he stays all his career in Cleveland (who would lol), but colluding previously and reports of him going down that route again DOES raise questions regarding his greatness. Noone denies he is a great player, but perhaps not as great as many have thought.


Who said he's going to form another super team?? He's in a much better situation in Miami. It's all pure speculations that Lebron is going to sign with another team.

[Lebron23]

Cleveland got Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, a Shaq on his last legs, and Antwan Jamison--and people get mad at LeBron fleeing that incompetent organization? :roll:



Garnett was a MVP candidate in 2008.


And he's also the defensive player of the year. 32 yrs.old Garnett was better than Lebron's 2nd and 3rd scoring option right now.

[Xoush]

Who said he's going to form another super team?? He's in a much better situation in Miami. It's all pure speculations that Lebron is going to sign with another team.

Then why the fcuk are you so mad? If, like you say, it's pure speculation why be so insecure about yourself/the player you admire.

There is a good possibility he stays. I doubt Lebron goes to the west, but when it happens I won't be suprised.


At all.

[Roundball_Rock]

And he's also the defensive player of the year. 32 yrs.old Garnett was better than Lebron's 2nd and 3rd scoring option right now.

True. People forget that the Celtics became instant favorites after KG and Allen joined. They won 66 games--no other team won more than 59 (Detroit)--while the West was wide open, with the top seed winning 57 games and 6th place winning 55. They slacked off in the first two rounds and wound up in Game 7's, but they pretty handily saw off the Pistons and Lakers. That team was so strong that even with KG hurt the following year they remained a top 5 team. In 2010 they were back in the Finals. Even in 2012 they almost toppled the "stacked" Heat in the ECF. They had a great run and but for injuries could have won three consecutive titles.

Bird's teams made 8 ECF's in 9 years, reached 5 Finals and won 3 rings. The 80's Lakers made the Finals 8 of 10 seasons, winning 5 times, and were in the WCF 9 times in 10 years. The Jordan-Pippen era Bulls made it to 8 ECF's in 10 years and won 6 titles. Yet these teams weren't stacked? They just happened to contend year after year for an entire decade? :confusedshrug:

[JuicyJay78]

The culture is completely different. When the players in the 80s grew up, there wasn't much of a national AAU circuit and there wasn't cell phones, the internet, etc.

These players today grew up playing ball together/against each other when they're kids, they grow up seeing all their competitors, and there's cell phones/the internet, so they keep in touch and become friends.

It's a little different than Larry Bird growing up in Indiana and dominating all the white kids around French Lick his entire life.

[NumberSix]

Boston knocked down the first domino. They made a super team and everybody else had to make a super team to compete and then everybody had to make a super team to compete with those super teams and so on.

[DonDadda59]

Cleveland got Larry Hughes, Mo Williams, a Shaq on his last legs, and Antwan Jamison--and people get mad at LeBron fleeing that incompetent organization? :roll:

How were they incompetent by putting together a 60+ win caliber, defense oriented squad? :confusedshrug:

Shaq was putting up 18/8 (61% FG) the season before for PHX, looked rejuvenated and played 75 games. Even on CLE he gave them quality minutes, usually being their go to at the start of games before being pulled for Big Z/Varejao. He put up 12/7 (57% FG) for them on limited minutes.

Jamison was putting up 21/9 for the Wizards before joining the Cavs, where he went on to give them 16/8 (49% FG) as their 3rd option AKA about what Bosh gives MIA now.

The Cavs were top 10 in scoring and defense in '09-'10 and ended up a 61 win team. They had a great mix of scoring and defense. They had a host of quality bigs (Shaq, Big Z, Varejao, even Hickson coming off the bench), shooters (Williams, Parker, West). But because they ran into a very good but aging Boston team and lost... Bron jumped ship... at age 26... to form a super team.

Just a little bit of an overreaction :lol

[Jailblazers7]

Both teams built by GMs who were brilliant at moving players around and trading for the talent they needed to beat the other, not by players practically tripping over themselves to get out of each other's way.

Completely different situations, you dolt.

But why wait for management to get their head out of their asses to build you a good team? Every player would be their own GM if they could, it just happened that the stars aligned for Lebron and he decided to take fate into his own hands.

[SouBeachTalents]

How were they incompetent by putting together a 60+ win caliber, defense oriented squad? :confusedshrug:

Shaq was putting up 18/8 (61% FG) the season before for PHX, looked rejuvenated and played 75 games. Even on CLE he gave them quality minutes, usually being their go to at the start of games before being pulled for Big Z/Varejao. He put up 12/7 (57% FG) for them on limited minutes.

Jamison was putting up 21/9 for the Wizards before joining the Cavs, where he went on to give them 16/8 (49% FG) as their 3rd option AKA about what Bosh gives MIA now.

The Cavs were top 10 in scoring and defense in '09-'10 and ended up a 61 win team. They had a great mix of scoring and defense. They had a host of quality bigs (Shaq, Big Z, Varejao, even Hickson coming off the bench), shooters (Williams, Parker, West). But because they ran into a very good but aging Boston team and lost... Bron jumped ship... at age 26... to form a super team.

Just a little bit of an overreaction :lol

I think Cleveland's performance since he left speaks for itself

[SouBeachTalents]

But why wait for management to get their head out of their asses to build you a good team? Every player would be their own GM if they could, it just happened that the stars aligned for Lebron and he decided to take fate into his own hands.

This

[Ken_Masters]

True. People forget that the Celtics became instant favorites after KG and Allen joined. They won 66 games--no other team won more than 59 (Detroit)--while the West was wide open, with the top seed winning 57 games and 6th place winning 55. They slacked off in the first two rounds and wound up in Game 7's, but they pretty handily saw off the Pistons and Lakers. That team was so strong that even with KG hurt the following year they remained a top 5 team. In 2010 they were back in the Finals. Even in 2012 they almost toppled the "stacked" Heat in the ECF. They had a great run and but for injuries could have won three consecutive titles.

Bird's teams made 8 ECF's in 9 years, reached 5 Finals and won 3 rings. The 80's Lakers made the Finals 8 of 10 seasons, winning 5 times, and were in the WCF 9 times in 10 years. The Jordan-Pippen era Bulls made it to 8 ECF's in 10 years and won 6 titles. Yet these teams weren't stacked? They just happened to contend year after year for an entire decade? :confusedshrug:

Even if Garnett was considered a superstar at that stage in his career, he was still the only superstar on the team. The rest were all stars. I don't have a problem with 1 superstar joining forces with all stars. I think that's reasonable. I don't think two superstars need to join forces in order to win rings. If they're already drafted on the same team that's fine, but hitting free agency and choosing to play for a team that already has an established superstar on it doesn't seem necessary.

[DonDadda59]

I think Cleveland's performance since he left speaks for itself

Comparing the '10-'11 Cavs to the '09-'10 Cavs is the same thing as comparing the '98-'99+ Bulls to the '97-98 Bulls.

Not counting Bron- their center rotation (Shaq, Big Z) was gone, Twan played 56 games, Varejao 31, Mo put in 34 games before he was gone. People act like Bron left but everything else was exactly the same in CLE.

[AlphaWolf24]

If the players in the 90s were smart they would have done the same instead of letting Jordan run through them.

What do they have to show for it? No rings and the right to call themselves an OG?


who Barkley?.....he did join a good team.

He was on a team with Dr.J and Moses Malone ( who won a title the year before he was drafted)....He joined a Good Suns team that won like 18 games in a row and looked unbeatable...

Malone?...he was on a good Jazz team with the 2nd GOAT PG. They both played over 20 years and couldn't win.....it wasn't just because of MJ.





back on topic.

who in this generation has really quit and gave up on their teams? ( while in their prime)

only Lebron

- the rest of the players were in the twighlight of their career's and their teams were horrible.

- C Webb and AI...AI and Melo.....Tmac and Yao...KG , Allen and PP.....Shaq and Lebron,.... Howard and Kobe and Nash ( Kobe and Nash are well past their primes):confusedshrug:


nothing compares to what LBJ did.