The Bad Boy Pistons allowed more PPG than Dirk/Nash's Mavs/Suns

[mehyaM24]

why are they called one of the greatest defenses ever? :confusedshrug:

most perimeter players in the 80's were rail thin. what makes you think a tank like lebron would have a problem?

the players today are bigger, stronger , faster, better, and have equal fundamentals (more long-range/3PT range). this era is better defensively, better talent wise , and much better competitively (8 teams almost won 50 games in the western conference!)

if you think jordan is the greatest player ever, that's fine. there is no problem there. if you think he would have dominated this era, that's perfectly fine. i actually agree (jordan would have been great in any era). however, you cannot deny that the players are just better today (training and nutrition methods have improved, so has the athleticism)

[1987_Lakers]

Game was played at a different pace.

/thread

[SexSymbol]

why are they called one of the greatest defenses ever? :confusedshrug:

most perimeter players in the 80's were rail thin. what makes you think a tank like lebron would have a problem?

the players today are bigger, stronger , faster, better, and have equal fundamentals (more long-range/3PT range). this era is better defensively, better talent wise , and much better competitively (8 teams almost won 50 games in the western conference!)

if you think jordan is the greatest player ever, that's fine. there is no problem there. if you think he would have dominated this era, that's perfectly fine. i actually agree (jordan would have been great in any era). however, you cannot deny that the players are just better today (training and nutrition methods have improved, so has the athleticism)
My d i c k is stronger bigger faster and better than your ever will be, and it's from the 90s, how come?

[Meticode]

Different era, different pace. End of thread. Next.

[Rubio2Gasol]

How I would love to see Wade try that drive for free throws bullshit against Laimbeer :roll:

[DonDadda59]

why are they called one of the greatest defenses ever? :confusedshrug:

most perimeter players in the 80's were rail thin. what makes you think a tank like lebron would have a problem?

the players today are bigger, stronger , faster, better, and have equal fundamentals (more long-range/3PT range). this era is better defensively, better talent wise , and much better competitively (8 teams almost won 50 games in the western conference!)

if you think jordan is the greatest player ever, that's fine. there is no problem there. if you think he would have dominated this era, that's perfectly fine. i actually agree (jordan would have been great in any era). however, you cannot deny that the players are just better today (training and nutrition methods have improved, so has the athleticism)

Yup, that's why the Spurs just put a Historic ass whooping on Bron and co- because they're bigger, stronger, faster than the Heat.

http://bleacherfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/San-Antonio-Spurs-2014-SSC.jpg

^Dudes look like they live in the gym. And did you see how fast and athletic they were in the finals? :eek:

[atljonesbro]

Game was played at a different pace.

/thread
So you're saying we shouldn't take their offensive stats or rebounds for face value? How much should we be deducting from each?

[Droid101]

Points per game is shit. Points per 100 possessions is the only way to measure across eras.

[mehyaM24]

Points per game is shit. Points per 100 possessions is the only way to measure across eras.

DRtg does a good job here. agreed.

per 100 possessions, the bulls defense in the 90s is about equivalent to the 2000s wizards teams.

LMAO

just shows how awful these teams were defensively and why you cant take offensive stats so seriously (:oldlol: at 40ppg in the finals)

[DonDadda59]

they're not. what makes you say that? outside of lebron, they're slow and weak.


But you just said that players now are bigger, stronger, faster, etc... but now the best team in basketball is made up of slow, weak players? You tryna pull some jedi mind trick shit here? :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

spurs are filled with 2000s players (GOAT era)

the heat are not stronger, faster, and better than the spurs, though. wade is a shell of himself and bosh is a weak bitch.

[DonDadda59]

spurs are filled with 2000s players (GOAT era)

the heat are not stronger, faster, and better than the spurs, though. wade is a shell of himself and bosh is a weak bitch.

AKA old ass nigguhs who are weak and slow? That's what the best team in basketball is made up of?

This is some serious mind f*ck shit you're pulling here. Twilight Zone level...

[Legends66NBA7]

Can't use PPG regarding 2 different eras, let alone use PPG today comparing defenses. It is 1 way to use, but DRTG vs what they did in their particular year and stretch is the way to go.

Bad Boy Pistons 86/87-90/91

86/87: DRTG: 105.8 (5/23) - AVG: 108.3; Pace: 101 (13/23) - AVG: 100.8
87/88: DRTG: 105.3 (2/23) - AVG: 108; Pace: 98.3 (14/23) - AVG: 99.6
88/89: DRTG: 104.7 (3/25) - AVG: 107.8; Pace: 95.5 (25/25) - AVG: 100.6
89/90: DRTG: 103.5 (2/27) - AVG: 108.1; Pace: 94.4 (26/27) - AVG: 98.3
90/91: DRTG: 104.6 (4/27) - AVG: 107.9; Pace: 91.9 (27/27) - AVG: 97.8

I'll use the 00/01 season to start the Dirk/Nash era, because that's when Nash became a consistent starter for the Mavs.

Dirk/Nash Mavericks 00/01-03/04

00/01: DRTG: 102.6 (13/29) - AVG: 103; Pace: 93.2 (4/29) - AVG: 91.3
01/02: DRTG: 107.7 (25/29) - AVG: 104.5; Pace: 92.8 (4/29) - AVG: 90.7
02/03: DRTG: 102.3 (9/29) - AVG: 103.6; Pace: 92.5 (7/29) - AVG: 91
03/04: DRTG: 107.4 (26/29) - AVG: 102.9; Pace: 93.2 (2/29) - AVG: 90.1


As you can see, the Pistons during their run to Conference Finals and Finals runs, ran a middle of the pack or dead last pace in a league that on averaged 8 or 9 more possessions vs the Mavericks who played uptempo style where the league had less possessions that was already explained.

The Mavericks during 87-91 would be using a lot more possessions because their philosophy was to play offense first and didn't really have consistent defensive foundation on their team. I have no doubt their DRTG and Opp PPG would have been much higher because they didn't really address that consistently yet.

While the Pistons during 01-04 would have been a slow, grind it out team that would punish you were trying to attack the rim. They might have gotten a lot of fines and suspensions around that time, but they would have been very much at home in a league playing their type of pace during the 89-91 run.

[mehyaM24]

AKA old ass nigguhs who are weak and slow? That's what the best team in basketball is made up of?

This is some serious mind f*ck shit you're pulling here. Twilight Zone level...

lol

name 3-4 spurs players (they're pretty deep), who get tons of minutes and that are "weak" and "slow"

[DonDadda59]

lol

name 3-4 spurs players (they're pretty deep), who get tons of minutes and that are "weak" and "slow"

I don't know. I don't know what to believe any more. :(

But the name Boris keeps popping up in my head for some reason.

[mehyaM24]

I don't know. I don't know what to believe any more. :(

But the name Boris keeps popping up in my head for some reason.

everybody has that ONE slow guy (far from "weak" either)

name a few more dude

[DonDadda59]

everybody has that ONE slow guy (far from "weak" either)

name a few more dude

My main man Tim Duncan- love him to death. But he's slow as shit and hasn't gotten more than 3" off the ground for the better part of a decade.

He's also 38 years old.

[Kblaze8855]

This is one of those topics where someone who doesnt even remember the people in question starts judging them and will call people who have a much more informed opinion nostalgic if that more informed opinion doesnt fall in line with the guy asking. So....there really isnt a point in answering. Not like you would accept the answer as truth.

[kentatm]

mehyaM24

thanks for letting us know your basketball opinions are worthless due to complete ignorance.

[tontoz]

Yeah the players back then were wimps...

http://www.goerieblogs.com/sports/giveandgo/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/Anthony-Mason.jpg

http://www.photofile.com/SportsProducts/Photos/aapl076.jpg

http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/253476741_890cb66ecc.jpg

http://sinbapointforward.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/pistons-mahorn.jpg

http://borntocompete.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/david-robinson.jpg

[dubeta]

This proves scoring and rebounding records were inflated back then

[sportjames23]

OP and dubeta stay failing.

[plowking]

How I would love to see Wade try that drive for free throws bullshit against Laimbeer :roll:

Wade always did well against physical defenses. Early in their careers he proved he was the one most capable of dealing with it. Better than Bron, and even better than prime Kobe.

[Poetry]

This proves scoring and rebounding records were inflated back then

From a different thread, but still applies:


Pace is at 94.2, as of today.

In Bird's last year it was at 96.6. He averaged 9.6 boards that season. And that was an old, broken Bird.

When pace was at 103.1 in 1982-83, Bird averaged 11 rebounds.

Despite the nearly 7 point drop off in pace, Bird's rebounding numbers only dropped by 1.4. It wasn't a monumental drop off.

If Prime Bird played at today's pace of 94.2, his stats would be practically identical.

Don't buy into that pace nonsense. A superstar will get the same numbers and touches regardless of pace.

[Marchesk]

Yup, that's why the Spurs just put a Historic ass whooping on Bron and co- because they're bigger, stronger, faster than the Heat.

Every year players get bigger, stronger and faster. It's a trend. You can tell Manu is bigger, stronger and faster this year than he was last year. Dunking over Bosh on a fastbreak - nobody even a decade ago could have pulled that off in their 30s.

[Rose'sACL]

Yup, that's why the Spurs just put a Historic ass whooping on Bron and co- because they're bigger, stronger, faster than the Heat.

http://bleacherfan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/San-Antonio-Spurs-2014-SSC.jpg

^Dudes look like they live in the gym. And did you see how fast and athletic they were in the finals? :eek:
Actually, spurs are bigger, stronger, younger than heat. We have the better team and unlike you or guys like Marlo/silk, I take pride in it.

[stephanieg]

Even with just raw opponent PPG this isn't true.

1989 Pistons: 100.8
1990 Pistons: 98.3
1991 Pistons: 96.8

2005 Suns: 103.3
2010 Suns: 105.3

[masonanddixon]

Man the 02-03 Mavs are my favorite squad of all time but the defense was terrible, especially with Nellie at the helm.

Though I must say Dirk did a very admirable job holding down the Center spot on defense most of the time, and Raja Bell worked his ass off defensively.

[TheMan]

http://www.notinhalloffame.com/UserFiles/Image/article_images/Basketball/55.%20Larry%20Johnson.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fq-MIsVF2BE/UE45-DKUkCI/AAAAAAAAIJc/rjriv87MeNc/s1600/kevin_willis_short.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/06/02/sports/WOOLRIDGE1-obit/WOOLRIDGE1-obit-articleInline.jpg
http://www.interbasket.net/players/usa/ewing.jpg
The previous four are 'skinny sticks' according to OP. Meanwhile these are three of today's top scorers...

http://110nationsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Has-Kevin-Love-played-his-last-game-in-Minnesota..jpeg
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/act_carmelo_anthony.jpg
http://thesportsquotient.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/kevin-durant.jpg
the MVP
http://twothreehoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Big-Fat-Boris-Diaw.jpg
This extraordinary modern physical specimen was getting mentioned as a FMVP, true story!

[Anaximandro1]

The Bad Boy Pistons allowed more PPG than Dirk/Nash's Mavs/Suns

Stats need context.

The 80s had faster pace and higher offensive/defensive rating.

Bad Boy Pistons were a dominant defensive team in the 80s, while Nash Mavs were a bad defensive team in the 00s.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EUpdpYygors/U6LRH-KrDVI/AAAAAAAADBQ/0QIet9_tlQU/s1600/1.jpg


This proves scoring and rebounding records were inflated back then

Sure, but we have Per 100 Team Possessions.


Don't buy into that pace nonsense. A superstar will get the same numbers and touches regardless of pace.

the number of touches has a strong relationship with :

1) pace

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0pMe3nPBOgA/U6LRIBCinUI/AAAAAAAADBE/fus1LlXqovo/s1600/2.jpg


2) team structure

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-T-h4FpDB0NU/U6LRH7mcwII/AAAAAAAADBI/y4xQpn-HQmU/s1600/3.jpg

[SHAQisGOAT]

:facepalm

I could try and drop some knowledge but your ignorant-ass wouldn't pay attention or even understand it, so I'll just leave it at...
If (those) Mavs/Suns were playing in the same league as the Bad Boys you can bet your life that they would give up more points and have a worse DRtg, and that's considerably.

Plenty of good posts in this thread, already.

[Asukal]

Defensive rating? :oldlol:

OP must be yaomingfoot's alt. Just ban his ass already. :rockon:

[juju151111]

What the Pistons Playoffs stats on defense. I could of sworn watching the documentary that they didn't allow a team to reach 100 pts in 1990

[OldSchoolBBall]

Because they were playing against far better offenses.

In the '90 playoffs they held their opponents to 94.8 ppg/43.5% FG. Their playoff opponents averaged 110 ppg/48.8% FG in the regular season. So they held teams to -15 ppg/-5.3% FG below their seasonal averages.

For comparison's sake, the 2008 Celtics - considered by many to be "the best defense ever" - held their playoff opponents to 88.8 ppg/42.6% FG. These opponents averaged 100 ppg/45.7% FG during the regular season. So they held opponents to -11 ppg/-3.1% FG. As you can see, Detroit's differentials were much higher than Boston's.

That's why those Pistons are one of the best defenses ever.