True or False: Can LeBron James co-exist with a Traditional Bigman?

[Black and White]

I always wondered this, as he has never played with a traditional back to the basket bigman, with LeBrons strength being driving and finishing at the basket, do you think he would be able to co-exist with an Elite bigman? Or does his style of play make it harder on the big man?

Thoughts ISH

[lilteapot]

If lebron drives to the basket they double him and he, being the gifted passer he is, dumps it off to a big man and gets a score. vice versa.

[J Shuttlesworth]

If lebron drives to the basket they double off him and he, being the gifted passer he is, dumps it off to a big man and gets a score. vice versa.
Exactly. He will take it to the lane and would have the option of taking a shot, passing out to a jump shooter, or passing it to a big man inside for a dunk/layup

[navy]

So your telling me Lebron and Chris Anderson never worked?

[Black and White]

So your telling me Lebron and Chris Anderson never worked?

I'm not talking Anderson, I'm talking an Elite big-man, who plays the traditional back to the basket style of play.

[TheMarkMadsen]

So your telling me Lebron and Chris Anderson never worked?


Holy shit :roll: :roll:

"Elite"

"Back to the basket big man"

[Black and White]

Exactly. He will take it to the lane and would have the option of taking a shot, passing out to a jump shooter, or passing it to a big man inside for a dunk/layup

I guess what I'm trying to ask is do you reckon he is better suited to finesse forwards that have solid mid-range game/play face up etc??

[J Shuttlesworth]

I'm not talking Anderson, I'm talking an Elite big-man, who plays the traditional back to the basket style of play.
Andersen plays the way Bosh should... pick and rolls, goes to the rim, gets looks inside. If Bosh did that as well as shoot jumpers, he'd be amazing. An elite big man like Shaq or Wilt would work wonders for the Heat, and get rid of their massive rebounding problem. If the Heat had offensive rebounding, it would be a completely different story

[navy]

I'm not talking Anderson, I'm talking an Elite big-man, who plays the traditional back to the basket style of play.

Why would Lebron affect a big's abiltiy to play back to the basket? Are you claiming Lebron is incapable of standing in a corner?

Lebron doesnt pass to people near the basket? Lebron cant give the ball to Shaq and watch him score two points?

[J Shuttlesworth]

I guess what I'm trying to ask is do you reckon he is better suited to finesse forwards that have solid mid-range game/play face up etc??
I'd have to see to know for sure... we haven't seen it, like you said. I could see a big man causing some problems with floor spacing for LeBron to get in the paint, but it seemed like Kobe was able to drive inside when Shaq was on his team, so I doubt it would really be a problem. The pros would outweigh the cons. Having a reliable inside post scorer and rebounder would work wonders for LeBron. That's really what the Heat lack. Their style of small ball limits their rebounding abilities which ends up limiting their total # of possessions.

[navy]

I'm not talking Anderson, I'm talking an Elite big-man, who plays the traditional back to the basket style of play.

Why would Lebron affect a big's ability to play back to the basket?

Are you claiming Lebron is incapable of standing in a corner?

Lebron doesnt pass to people near the basket?(Why I mentioned Chris Anderson)

Lebron cant give the ball to Shaq and watch him score two points?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Why would Lebron affect a big's abiltiy to play back to the basket? Are you claiming Lebron is incapable of standing in a corner?

Lebron doesnt pass to people near the basket? Lebron cant give the ball to Shaq and watch him score two points?
Even better would be a back to the basket big man who can pass. Post up, and have LeBron go around some screens and cut inside for the pass/easy bucket. Shit could be deadly

[Killbot]

Yes. Hakeem or Kareem

[knicksman]

Nope. Thats why they cant play a big and bosh forced at the 3pt line coz he trying to protect his FG%.. Only idiots believes hes not selfish and make his teammates better.

[Black and White]

I'd have to see to know for sure... we haven't seen it, like you said. I could see a big man causing some problems with floor spacing for LeBron to get in the paint, but it seemed like Kobe was able to drive inside when Shaq was on his team, so I doubt it would really be a problem. The pros would outweigh the cons. Having a reliable inside post scorer and rebounder would work wonders for LeBron. That's really what the Heat lack. Their style of small ball limits their rebounding abilities which ends up limiting their total # of possessions.

I keep hearing that thrown around, but after watching him over these years, I get the feeling that he doesn't really need offensive bigmen (maybe the C the PF just needs to have a mid-range game), he needs defensive bigmen that can rebound, there is more tendency for the offense to run on the perimeter and if there is any inside looks the majority is LeBron, just throwing it out there, thats all.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Nope. Thats why they cant play a big and bosh staying at the 3pt line coz he trying to protect his FG%.. Only idiots believes hes not selfish and make his teammates better.
If Bosh is forced to shoot 3's, why doesn't Birdman do the same? Last playoffs, there was a stretch where he hadn't missed a bucket for like 6 games, and all those were inside.

[gasolina]

They can coexist, but you wont be maximizing Lebrons offense if that is the case.

1. Having an elite big man down there will clog the paint. Not enough space for James ro operate.

2. Teams would just throw hard hedges at Lebron/Elite BM p&r. Big man pretty much have to dive down which gives the defense extra time to recover.

3. Teams can just double off the big man and rotate. Its easier to rotate inside than chasing bosh at the 3pt line.

4. Lebron still hasnt shown he can hit that perimeter J consistently

[PJR]

Nope. Thats why they cant play a big and bosh staying at the 3pt line coz he trying to protect his FG%.. Only idiots believes hes not selfish and make his teammates better.

You are easily the biggest idiot on this forum. Bar none.

[navy]

I keep hearing that thrown around, but after watching him over these years, I get the feeling that he doesn't really need offensive bigmen (maybe the C the PF just needs to have a mid-range game), he needs defensive bigmen that can rebound, there is more tendency for the offense to run on the perimeter and if there is any inside looks the majority is LeBron, just throwing it out there, thats all.

What are you talking about man? Lebron doesnt "need" that stuff because he is so great that he can get away without it.

That doesnt mean it isnt better. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

If Bosh is forced to shoot 3's, why doesn't Birdman do the same? Last playoffs, there was a stretch where he hadn't missed a bucket for like 6 games, and all those were inside.

then why put lewis in the starting lineup. I know bran can play with a big man. But now that hes trying to protect his FG%, they are forced to play 5 shooters to the point of sacrificing a title. Thats how selfish he is.

[navy]

If Bosh is forced to shoot 3's, why doesn't Birdman do the same? Last playoffs, there was a stretch where he hadn't missed a bucket for like 6 games, and all those were inside.
This. Chris Anderson doesnt have an outside game and when he plays with Lebron the results can be deadly. Can you imagine if he didnt have to be spoon fed his baskets and Lebron could go stand in the corner and watch him isolate?

What the hell is wrong with you people.

[Warfan]

then why put lewis in the starting lineup. I know bran can play with a big man. But now that hes trying to protect his FG%, they are forced to play 5 shooters to the point of sacrificing a title. Thats how selfish he is.

God damn this homo is probably the biggest bron stan on ISH. I've literally never seen him make a post about anything other than lebron.

As for the question. Yes...

[J Shuttlesworth]

then why put lewis in the starting lineup. I know bran can play with a big man. But now that hes trying to protect his FG%, they are forced to play 5 shooters to the point of sacrificing a title. Thats how selfish he is.
Birdman has always been the guy off the bench. Lewis is a bigger scoring threat than Birdman, and suits the small ball/fast ball movement style the Spurs were playing.

I'm not sure what Andersen/Lewis starting has to do with LeBron's FG&... I'm pretty sure you're just making shit up now

[knicksman]

God damn this homo is probably the biggest bron stan on ISH. I've literally never seen him make a post about anything other then lebron.

As for the question. Yes...

y u mad tho?

[Black and White]

What are you talking about man? Lebron doesnt "need" that stuff because he is so great that he can get away without it.

That doesnt mean it isnt better. :oldlol:

I'm not saying that at all, if you read what I said properly, does LeBron seem like the "dump it to the bigman and stand in a corner" type? We all know about his tendencies to over-dribble, I'm just asking the question.

[knicksman]

Birdman has always been the guy off the bench. Lewis is a bigger scoring threat than Birdman, and suits the small ball/fast ball movement style the Spurs were playing.

I'm not sure what Andersen/Lewis starting has to do with LeBron's FG&... I'm pretty sure you're just making shit up now


nah he was starting coz spo realized bosh waiting at the 3 pt line isnt enough. Bran cant still score. You know the guy who only scores during 1st quarters or 20 pt blowouts. So he has to space the floor more for bran. Bran is only good in the regular season but gets exposed in the playoffs which is what matters.

[navy]

Lebron still hasnt shown he can hit that perimeter J consistently

Maybe not on isolation, but on spot ups or catch and shoot?
One of the best in the nba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWvTypNPWpc


Again I ask...What the hell are you guys talking about?

[J Shuttlesworth]

nah he was starting coz spo realized bosh waiting at the 3 pt line isnt enough. Bran cant still score. You know the guy who only scores during 1st quarters or 20 pt blowouts. So he has to space the floor more for bran. Bran is only good in the regular season but gets exposed in the playoffs which is what matters.
Once again, completely illogical post right here. Do you not remember the headband game when LeBron scored 18 pts in the 2nd half? That was with Birdman on the floor for the majority, not Bosh. Why didn't Birdman kill the spacing for LeBron leading him not to score? You say this as if LeBron has trouble scoring with Birdman on the floor opposed to Bosh, which is not even close to the case. LeBron plays some of his best ball w/ Birdman on the floor

[knicksman]

Once again, completely illogical post right here. Do you not remember the headband game when LeBron scored 18 pts in the 2nd half? That was with Birdman on the floor for the majority, not Bosh. Why didn't Birdman kill the spacing for LeBron leading him not to score? You say this as if LeBron has trouble scoring with Birdman on the floor opposed to Bosh, which is not even close to the case. LeBron plays some of his best ball w/ Birdman on the floor


well theyre giving him space to shoot. Now that spurs are defending him properly, he got exposed again

[gasolina]

Maybe not on isolation, but on spot ups or catch and shoot?
One of the best in the nba.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWvTypNPWpc


Again I ask...What the hell are you guys talking about?
So you're telling me youd rather give the ball to an elite big man down low than the best player in the world?

[navy]

I'm not saying that at all, if you read what I said properly, does LeBron seem like the "dump it to the bigman and stand in a corner" type? We all know about his tendencies to over-dribble, I'm just asking the question.

Typical ISH, but let me respond anyways.

Lebron very rarely if ever over dribbles these days. If you ever see Lebron holding the ball it is because the the team is running a play and Lebron will shoot if the play gets blown up. It may be someone running off a screen or a player over hedging that Lebron is looking to pass to. That or the Heat set a ball screen that was defended (or a bad screen was set) well so Lebron will shoot it himself. Lebron is usually looking to pass. Very rarely does he hold the ball with the intention of hoisting up a long two.

Lebron has no problem with Wade posting up and standing in a corner. He even lets Beasly and Rashard Lewis post up if they have a mismatch.

But he would have a problem with an elite big man posting up?

:oldlol:

[jzek]

He is Magic Johnson so true. Magic co-existed with Kareem so LeBron can too.

[J Shuttlesworth]

well theyre giving him space to shoot. Now that spurs are defending him properly, he got exposed again
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Most of those buckets w/ birdman on the floor are inside buckets. Layups and dunks.... I don't think he hit a jumpshot in game 6 w/ Birdman on the floor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncVxYAsSAko

Check out like 1:30 on

[Black and White]

Typical ISH, but let me respond anyways.

Lebron very rarely if ever over dribbles these days. If you ever see Lebron holding the ball it is because the the team is running a play and Lebron will shoot if the play gets blown up. It may be someone running off a screen or a player over hedging that Lebron is looking to pass to. That or the Heat set a ball screen that was defended (or a bad screen was set) well so Lebron will shoot it himself. Lebron is usually looking to pass. Very rarely does he hold the ball with the intention of hoisting up a long two.

Lebron has no problem with Wade posting up and standing in a corner. He even lets Beasly and Rashard Lewis post up if they have a mismatch.

But he would have a problem with an elite big man posting up?

:oldlol:

Maybe you misunderstood what I'm trying to say, LeBron can move the ball, we all know that, but I'm looking at this from a floor spacing perspective, thats why I think finesse bigman > traditional bigman for LeBron.

[navy]

So you're telling me youd rather give the ball to an elite big man down low than the best player in the world?
Are you telling me Lebron is selfish and doesnt like giving his teammates the ball?
He will give anyone the damn ball. Post up, spot up, dump off you name.

[navy]

Maybe you misunderstood what I'm trying to say, LeBron can move the ball, we all know that, but I'm looking at this from a floor spacing perspective, thats why I think finesse bigman > traditional bigman for LeBron.
You give and you take. Yeah, Lebron drives better with a better spacing. Every player does. Lebron is one the best drivers in nba history. And he has been since his Cleveland days before Bosh. He will get over it.

But you posed the question can Lebron coexist with a big? What the hell? He cant watch a big score two points? He cant drive the ball and dump the ball off if someone helps? He cant pass into the post? He cant stand in a corner? Lebron hates watching his teammates score or play well?

What the hell man.

[Black and White]

You give and you take. Yeah, Lebron drives better with a better spacing. Every player does. Lebron is one the best drivers in nba history. And he has been since his Cleveland days before Bosh.

But you posed the question can Lebron coexist with a big? What the hell? He can watch a big score two points? He cant drive the ball and dump the ball off if someone helps? He cant pass into the post? Lebron hates watching his teammates score or play well?

What the hell man.

It was just a question, as we have never seen him play with one, could there be a reason that he hasn't played with one yet? Maybe it just doesn't fit his style, only reason I ask this is because we can then gauge what type of team LeBron should go to (or what team Miami has to try and build)

[J Shuttlesworth]

It was just a question, as we have never seen him play with one, could there be a reason that he hasn't played with one yet? Maybe it just doesn't fit his style, only reason I ask this is because we can then gauge what type of team LeBron should go to (or what team Miami has to try and build)
Again, you've seen what the small ball results in. Their finals loss this year was mostly due to not having a 2nd option who can score inside, and the lack of rebounding. A big man would solve both of these problems. I don't even think LeBron's PPG would be lowered since they'd have more possessions with more rebounding.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yo knicksman.... why'd you disappear from this thread? I didn't mean to make you take so many L's... just trying to have conversation bro

[navy]

It was just a question, as we have never seen him play with one, could there be a reason that he hasn't played with one yet? Maybe it just doesn't fit his style, only reason I ask this is because we can then gauge what type of team LeBron should go to (or what team Miami has to try and build)
We have never seen him play with one because elite big men dont grow on trees.

The Heat have been trying to get a big since before Lebron showed up and Haslem was getting reps as center. Fcvkin Joel Anthony. Talk about black holes. Lebron was coexisting with one of the worst centers in history and we talking about an elite big? :oldlol:

Lebron can go anywhere. Team will "contend".

ISH is the only place Ive seen question whether Lebron can play with Dwight Howard or Prime Shaq. Good thing nobody here is a GM. :biggums:

[J Shuttlesworth]

ISH is the only place Ive seen question whether Lebron can play with Dwight Howard or Prime Shaq. Good thing nobody here is a GM. :biggums:
IMO, Duncan or prime Sabonis would be the ideal big man. Can rebound, back to the basket, and great passers. Duncan is also a pretty good mid range shooter too, especially in his prime with those bank shots :bowdown:

[pauk]

WTF? He is probably the most unselfish superstar non-PG any of us has ever seen... why would you think he would not co-exist with anybody?

[Black and White]

Again, you've seen what the small ball results in. Their finals loss this year was mostly due to not having a 2nd option who can score inside, and the lack of rebounding. A big man would solve both of these problems. I don't even think LeBron's PPG would be lowered since they'd have more possessions with more rebounding.

Fair enough, I just threw the question out there as I have never seen it discussed before.

[PickernRoller]

False. His mid-range jumper is not good enough for the stress of playing off-ball.

[Black and White]

WTF? He is probably the most unselfish superstar non-PG any of us has ever seen... why would you think he would not co-exist with anybody?

I don't think he could co-exist with an elite PG.

[navy]

I don't think he could co-exist with an elite PG.

Heat were owning the Spurs with the 1-3 Chalmers-Lebron pick and roll and Lebron cant exist with an elite point guard? :biggums:

[J Shuttlesworth]

I don't think he could co-exist with an elite PG.
:wtf: He won two rings w/ Chalmers

Please bite

[J Shuttlesworth]

On a serious note, LeBron/Westbrook would be the tits.

[Black and White]

:wtf: He won two rings w/ Chalmers

Please bite

:oldlol: :cheers:

[Black and White]

On a serious note, LeBron/Westbrook would be the tits.

Westbrook is a combo guard tho, far from your typical PG, that dynamic would be interesting, in all honesty, do you think LeBron would have to take a back seat to him?

[navy]

False. His mid-range jumper is not good enough for the stress of playing off-ball.
False. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWvTypNPWpc

[J Shuttlesworth]

But really though.. I think LeBron is one of the only superstars who could compliment another superstar well. LeBron/Durant would be insane.... As far as PG's go, I think he would play great w/ an elite PG. He'd probably score higher, but have less assists... and shit. Maybe even higher FG% :eek: Thinking about a pick and roll between LeBron/CP3 could be epic. Don't forget that LeBron is about the best catch and shoot player in the league behind Korver.

[navy]

Westbrook is a combo guard tho, far from your typical PG, that dynamic would be interesting, in all honesty, do you think LeBron would have to take a back seat to him?

No, because Lebron is better than Westbrook. Maybe if Lebron was 35 or something.

[Black and White]

No, because Lebron is better than Westbrook. Maybe if Lebron was 35 or something.

As you said tho, LeBron is willing to pass, Westbrook is a pitbull that loves to be ball-dominant.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Westbrook is a combo guard tho, far from your typical PG, that dynamic would be interesting, in all honesty, do you think LeBron would have to take a back seat to him?
:wtf: **** no. LeBron isn't a beta like Durant. LeBron doesn't have trouble letting defenders deny him the ball like KD, and would demand the ball from westbrook far more. Think about fast breaks w/ LeBron/Westbrook :eek: It would be more like what we expected of Wade before his knees went to shit. Personally, i'd take LeBron/Westbrook over LeBron/CP3


As you said tho, LeBron is willing to pass, Westbrook is a pitbull that loves to be ball-dominant.

LeBron is more of the guy who passes to make a good basketball play, not to make somebody else make the play.

[navy]

As you said tho, LeBron is willing to pass, Westbrook is a pitbull that loves to be ball-dominant.

Lebron does sometimes allow his teamates to get going, but none of them have ever been chuckers. If they dont have it they will give him the ball. I wonder if he would ever force Westbrook to stop chucking. :oldlol:

[Black and White]

Lebron does sometimes allow his teamates to get going, but none of them have ever been chuckers. If they dont have it they will give him the ball. I wonder if he would ever force Westbrook to stop chucking. :oldlol:

Could be one of the most interesting dynamics to watch, Westbrook loves that transiton jumper

[navy]

Could be one of the most interesting dynamics to watch, Westbrook loves that transiton jumper
It is weird that KD and Scott Brooks let Westbrook get away with it. Those jumpers are terrible. I honestly dont know how other stars would react to it.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Of course/

[hawksdogsbraves]

On a serious note, LeBron/Westbrook would be the tits.

Well yeah, it would be the exact same thing as LeBron + Wade from 2/3 years ago. Fast break alley oops for days.

[knicksman]

:wtf: He won two rings w/ Chalmers

Please bite

clearly these kids dont get it. Lebron has to adjust his game to exist with a PG. But is he willing? Coz its goodbye to triple doubles and future MVPs.

[SpaceJammeR]

of course he can. just use the eye test.:coleman:

[iamgine]

It was just a question, as we have never seen him play with one, could there be a reason that he hasn't played with one yet? Maybe it just doesn't fit his style, only reason I ask this is because we can then gauge what type of team LeBron should go to (or what team Miami has to try and build)
He will lose a bit of driving space, but the team will have a constant inside threat and better rebounding. Also, might be better for his cuts and passes on the inside.

Really, both types are fine. It just depends of team balance needs and how good the hypothetical player is and their personality. Co-existing is not a one way street. Not every back to basket big is the same. If they're the type who is very selfish, then very few could co-exist with them.

[Cocaine80s]

Who wouldnt benefit from a legit big man?

I dont even understand this question

[AirFederer]

Didn't he play with Shaq :cheers:

[bigt]

Didn't he play with Shaq :cheers:

One year away from retirement Shaq :oldlol:

And the sad thing is that's the closest he's had to a traditional bigman, in the mould you're talking about. His midranger has gotten good enough now that the main issue in the past (mediocre outside shooter) isn't going to plague the tandem. Given his passing ability, he'd get the big guy a tonne of open looks, and if the bigman is elite (say a Boogie Cousins kinda guy) then there are chances that it'll draw attention away from, if not Bron, then the other players, and really open up the outside for the 3's (since the focus would be on Bron/bigman)

In short, of course he can, the issue is we haven't seen him with that kind of player yet

[Lord Bean]

It really depends on that big man's 3-point range and patience. If the big man has no problem with standing around far away from the paint, and can knock down 3's in crunch time, he'd thrive with Lebron.

If we're talking purely back to the basket, traditional big men, not at all. Traditional big men don't drift out to the 3 point line and wait for a kick out during the last seconds of a shot clock.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Of course. He's a willing passer. Hell, his game with Wade makes NO SENSE from a basketball perspective. They're redundant. Both alpha, ball dominant players, who prefer to penetrate. And they were still able to go to four straight Finals, winning two chips. The talent overwhelmed their lack of basketball chemistry.

[Inactive]

It really depends on that big man's 3-point range and patience. If the big man has no problem with standing around far away from the paint, and can knock down 3's in crunch time, he'd thrive with Lebron.

If we're talking purely back to the basket, traditional big men, not at all. Traditional big men don't drift out to the 3 point line and wait for a kick out during the last seconds of a shot clock.I know you're trolling, but think back to Cleveland, when Lebron ran p&r with Varejao. He can play well with bigs, but Bosh has terrible hands, and that's not how Spoelstra wants them to play anyway.

He can throw an entry pass just fine, and he's a solid spot up shooter now, so there's no reason why he couldn't mesh with a back to the basket big. The paint would be a little bit more crowded, but he would have a big to pass to when the defense collapses on him, so it would probably even out.

[DFish24]

Nope