Why didn't Dwayne Wade win the MVP award in 2008-2009?

[SillyRabbit]

Wade: 30.2/7.5/5

James: 28.4/7.2/7.6

IMO 08/09 was Wade's best season by far.

Don't see why he didn't win the MVP.

[riseagainst]

and lebron stans say he played with scrubs in Cleveland.... he clearly had a good enough team for him to win the MVP.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Cavs won 66 games

[navy]

Team record.

[Rodmantheman]

record of the Teams.

[stalkerforlife]

The regular season MVP award has become somewhat of a joke.

It certainly is not telling when it comes to Bron's ranking on the all time list. Nor Nash. Nor Malone. Nor Rose.

[pauk]

Miami Heat - 43-39 (52%)
Cleveland Cavaliers - 66-16 (81%)

Things you do have to translate to some kindof team success...

[Warfan]

Wade was amazing that year and definitely had a case, but lebron was better and I'm pretty sure the cavs won 20 or so more games so that was probably the key factor.


and lebron stans say he played with scrubs in Cleveland.... he clearly had a good enough team for him to win the MVP.

They were a mediocre supporting cast and he was able to carry a big enough load to get a very good record. And it showed that they were a mediocre cast during the playoffs, especially in 09.

[TheBigVeto]

Because he didn't deserve it.

[Smook A.]

If the Heat won more games he would've won the MVP

[NumberSix]

Because he didn't deserve it.
I disagree. It would have been perfectly acceptable ton give D. Wade the MVP that season.

[dubeta]

You need at least 50+ wins to get MVP

Kobe stans (and some Wade stans) run away from this fact, and try and dismiss MVP, but the truth is none of them could lead a team to 50+ wins without elite help

[riseagainst]

You need at least 50+ wins to get MVP

Kobe stans (and some Wade stans) run away from this fact, and try and dismiss MVP, but the truth is none of them could lead a team to 50+ wins without elite help

any team that can win 60+ games does have a good team outside of their star player. retard lebron stans.

:oldlol:

[dubeta]

any team that can win 60+ games does have a good team outside of their star player. retard lebron stans.

:oldlol:

LOLOL then why was LeBron the only all star?

Mo williams lucked into all star in 2009 because 2 other all stars got injured

And in 2010 Lebron was the only all star on a 60 + win team

try and spin this around kobe stan :lol

[dc_chilling]

They have almost equal stats. Wade averaged a couple more points, Lebron averaged a couple more assists.

However, Wade was 4 games over .500 based on their loss record. Lebron was 50.

How is this even a question? :facepalm

[PsychoBe]

LOLOL then why was LeBron the only all star?

Mo williams lucked into all star in 2009 because 2 other all stars got injured

And in 2010 Lebron was the only all star on a 60 + win team

try and spin this around kobe stan :lol

leastern conference :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[NumberSix]

leastern conference :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Isn't that even more in LeBron's favour? I mean, even by shitty Eastern Conference standards, none of those scrubs could make an all star game, no?

[SouBeachTalents]

As everyone else has said, it's due to the record of their teams. What's strange to me is that they both played in the East, and in 2009 LeBron isn't that much better than Wade, yet one led his team with a weak roster to 66 wins while the other led his team with a weak roster to 43 wins

[navy]

As everyone else has said, it's due to the record of their teams. What's strange to me is that they both played in the East, and in 2009 LeBron isn't that much better than Wade, yet one led his team with a weak roster to 66 wins while the other led his team with a weak roster to 43 wins
Lebron is better at carrying than Wade. However if Lebron's roster was weak, Wade's was garbage.

[riseagainst]

LOLOL then why was LeBron the only all star?

Mo williams lucked into all star in 2009 because 2 other all stars got injured

And in 2010 Lebron was the only all star on a 60 + win team

try and spin this around kobe stan :lol

cus not having all star teammates automatically means your team is bad?

:rolleyes:

[PsychoBe]

Isn't that even more in LeBron's favour? I mean, even by shitty Eastern Conference standards, none of those scrubs could make an all star game, no?

i was talking in terms of the team record, not the all-star appearances.

in the east you don't even need all-stars, just a good system. the west is all about star-power, the east is about defensive game-planning and grind-it-out basketball because teams in the east are mostly built around one player.

[jlip]

I actually considered CP3 a stronger MVP candidate that season than Wade.

[GimmeThat]

it's just the science of basketball that just because player A score more than player B in a game, it doesn't guarantee a team victory.

[Stringer Bell]

Because Lebron had a better year

[KOBE143]

Neither of the two deserve that MVP.. Kobe should've won it..

[Dresta]

Miami Heat - 43-39 (52%)
Cleveland Cavaliers - 66-16 (81%)

Things you do have to translate to some kindof team success...
Except Miami only won 15 games the season before without Wade and with and injured Wade for some of the season. They added a healthy Wade, rookie Chalmers, and rookie Beasley, and won 28 more games (despite throwing the last couple as seeding was decided). The Cavs won 45 years the year before, Bron improved a little, but not much, but they added Mo Williams and Delonte West and that is what ramped their wins up to 66.

Even MJ endorsed D-Wade's MVP candidacy that year when the idiot media and ESPN pundits without a clue were all like 'but what about team success blah blah' - this is what has made the award a farce, and is why Shaq has 1 MVP, Kobe 1 MVP, Wade no MVPs, but Rose with one and Steve Nash with 2. Kobe actually came second in voting that season when he should have been 5th at best, and all because of 'team record'

[Dresta]

As everyone else has said, it's due to the record of their teams. What's strange to me is that they both played in the East, and in 2009 LeBron isn't that much better than Wade, yet one led his team with a weak roster to 66 wins while the other led his team with a weak roster to 43 wins
He had Delonte West and Mo Williams that year (who were both better than anyone Wade had) and Varajao and Big Z (likewise, Big Z being the Bosh of old just standing there waiting for Bron kickouts, though he rebounded a hell of a lot better than Bosh).

[dunksby]

cus not having all star teammates automatically means your team is bad?

:rolleyes:
Fragile stan logic :oldlol: I guess LeBron failed miserably this year as he lost playing with two other All-Stars to a team without one :lol

[Inactive]

As everyone else has said, it's due to the record of their teams. What's strange to me is that they both played in the East, and in 2009 LeBron isn't that much better than Wade, yet one led his team with a weak roster to 66 wins while the other led his team with a weak roster to 43 winsThe Heat started Jamario Moon, or Diawara at SF for half the season. They had a rookie Chalmers starting, rookie Spoelstra coaching, and rookie Beasley as their sixth man. They had Joel Anthony, and Jamal Magloire starting at center most of the season. Haslem started at PF.

The 09 Cavs didn't have a huge amount of talent outside of Lebron, but they were all good role players, or solid veterans.

[Dresta]

Fragile stan logic :oldlol: I guess LeBron failed miserably this year as he lost playing with two other All-Stars to a team without one :lol
Wasn't Mo Williams an all-star that season anyway?

[crisoner]

KG should of won in 2008

[Dresta]

The Heat started Jamario Moon, or Diawara at SF for half the season. They had a rookie Chalmers starting, rookie Spoelstra coaching, and rookie Beasley as their sixth man. They had Joel Anthony, and Jamal Magloire starting at center most of the season. Haslem started at PF.

The 09 Cavs didn't have a huge amount of talent outside of Lebron, but they were all good role players, or solid veterans.
:roll:

Man, that has to be one of the worst supporting casts ever.

[Trollsmasher]

He wasn't good enough

It would be pretty embarassing considering he then choked away the series against the Hawks

[BoutPractice]

Just to give you an idea of how dominant LeBron was that year in terms of pure statistical production:

28 points, 7.5 rebounds, 7.2 assists

Per 36 minutes: 27 points, 7.2 rebounds, 7 assists

Per 100 possessions: 41 points, 11 rebounds, 10.5 assists (Many teams in the 60s had over 120 possessions a game)

59 TS%, 31.7 PER.

Dwyane Wade:

30 points, 7.5 assists, 5.5 rebounds

Per 36 minutes: 28 points, 7 assists, 5 rebounds

Per 100 possession: 42 points, 10 assists, 7 rebounds.

57 TS%, 30.4 PER.

It's fairly close but LeBron's stats are better overall.

Add to that the fact that his team won 66 games, and that he more than confirmed in the playoffs (per 100 possessions: 47 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists over 14 games) and you've got one of the least controversial MVPs in history.

Dwyane Wade might have been MVP any other year than this, though (his teammates were truly horrid). LeBron's 2009 season was simply one for the ages.

[Dresta]

He wasn't good enough

It would be pretty embarassing considering he then choked away the series against the Hawks
Oh yeah, he choked against a team focused primarily on him, that had an ideal guy for defending him in Joe Johnson, and great help defenders in Horford and Smith (who were mobile enough to switch on pick and rolls), by putting up 29/5/5/1 and 1.6 blocks on 57TS% and losing game 7 not on his own floor, but on the opponents (which makes a big difference). He even took 50 3's in that series he had so little room to manoeuvre, and made 18 of them (36%). In what world is that a 'choke'?

Here, just for you because you obviously didn't watch the series as you didn't follow the Heat yet because your God hadn't joined them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7RnzhJ6qlo

It wasn't as good as his performance against the Celtics the following year (and the year after that) but it was still pretty damn impressive.

[HurricaneKid]

Just to give you an idea of how dominant LeBron was that year in terms of pure statistical production:

28 points, 7.5 rebounds, 7.2 assists

Per 36 minutes: 27 points, 7.2 rebounds, 7 assists

Per 100 possessions: 41 points, 11 rebounds, 10.5 assists (Many teams in the 60s had over 120 possessions a game)

59 TS%, 31.7 PER.

Dwyane Wade:

30 points, 7.5 assists, 5.5 rebounds

Per 36 minutes: 28 points, 7 assists, 5 rebounds

Per 100 possession: 42 points, 10 assists, 7 rebounds.

57 TS%, 30.4 PER.

It's fairly close but LeBron's stats are better overall.

Add to that the fact that his team won 66 games, and that he more than confirmed in the playoffs (per 100 possessions: 47 points, 12 rebounds, 10 assists over 14 games) and you've got one of the least controversial MVPs in history.

Dwyane Wade might have been MVP any other year than this, though (his teammates were truly horrid). LeBron's 2009 season was simply one for the ages.

The Heat were outscored by 191 points with Wade off the floor but outscored opponents by 212 with him in. They truly were an awful team without him. Pretty impressive stuff.

Until you look at LeBron.

Without LeBron the Cavs were outscored by 137 points which equates to -5.9/100 possessions. So they played as a bottom ~4 team without him. With him they outscored their opponents by 869 points, or +15.1/100 possessions. He literally took a bottom 4 team in the NBA and made it (at least record wise) a top 10 all-time team. That is beyond insane.

08-09 LeBron also holds the record for WS/48 for the playoffs.

08-09 LeBron was quite possibly the best player I have ever seen. And I was around for all of MJ. Wade and Kobe were great. LeBron was godly.

[Mass Debator]

Who the heck gets penalized for playing 1 minute more? Wade averaged almost 8 assists with scrub teammates while putting up 30 every night on nearly 50% shooting. Even though by a slight margin, he got like 40 more steals and 13 more blocks while playing 2 less games than James so don't tell me Lebron's stats were better that year. If anything, they were the same, but I'd take Wade's stat line of 2 more points, but 2 less rebounds.

[Stringer Bell]

Because Wade did not deserve it over Lebron.

[jlip]

I actually considered CP3 a stronger MVP candidate that season than Wade.

Again I honestly don't see a case for Wade over CP3 statistically or team record in '09.

[j3lademaster]

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2009.html

Lebron with 11.3 and Wade with 8.4 (which is absolutely ridiculous for a perimeter guy). Lebron was a bigger impact when he was on the court. And to CP3... 9.0 damn.

comparable stats. Lebron with a 31.7 per to Wade's 30.4... throwing in cp3's 30 per just for fun here

cp3 falls behind in the eye test for me because he wasn't as physically imposing as Wade and Lebron. That and The former two for me can take over a game moreso with high impact scoring.

Then the biggest difference: 66 wins to 43. Sorry, too big of a discrepancy considering comparable stats and the 66 win guy being better in terms of +/- for the season. CP3 with a rapm of 9.0, comparable stats along with 30.0 per with 49 wins in the west had a better case than Wade imo, but Wade had a stellar season and definitely can't be deemed completely undeserving.

[plowking]

KG should of won in 2008

So you think he should have won it over Kobe, who actually received the 08 award? :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

:oldlol: at LeBron stans thinking those Cavs teams were close to being even nearly as bad as the '09 Heat outside of Wade. Besides Kobe in '06/'07 and T-Mac in '03, I can't remember a superstar dragging a worst cast to the playoffs. But yeah, the main reason he didn't get as much hype for MVP as LeBron and Kobe that year was because of his teams record. The media hasn't awarded MVP to a player on a team who hasn't won at least 50 games since Kareem in the 70s.

[TheCorporation]

Wade: 30.2/7.5/5

James: 28.4/7.2/7.6

IMO 08/09 was Wade's best season by far.

Don't see why he didn't win the MVP.

Cavaliers: 66 wins

Heat: 43 wins

How hard is it for you retards to get this...The MVP almost ALWAYS goes to the #1 seed, except in some instances it goes to the #2 seed if the #1 seed is too stacked and there is no MVP. Just because you score a lot doesn't mean you're going to win MVP, that scoring needs to be associated with wins. Otherwise idiots like Kobe who score 30 points on 40% FG and has his team lose every night would be getting praised more and that would make no sense.

WINNING is the key, not putting up 30 ppg on 42% FG

:facepalm

[Dresta]

Cavaliers: 66 wins

Heat: 43 wins

How hard is it for you retards to get this...The MVP almost ALWAYS goes to the #1 seed, except in some instances it goes to the #2 seed if the #1 seed is too stacked and there is no MVP. Just because you score a lot doesn't mean you're going to win MVP, that scoring needs to be associated with wins. Otherwise idiots like Kobe who score 30 points on 40% FG and has his team lose every night would be getting praised more and that would make no sense.

WINNING is the key, not putting up 30 ppg on 42% FG

:facepalmNo, the award is called the Most Valuable Player, not 'the most valuable player on the best or one of the best teams' - this mistaken belief is the reason why Nash has 2 MVPs and Rose has 1, among other examples.

Miami won 15 games the season before basically without Wade - that is a 28 win increase pretty much entirely on Wade's back. Bron improved from 45 to 66 wins (21 game increase) partly because of his slightly improved play, but it also had a lot to do with the signing of Mo Williams who was really effective for the Cavs that year (not in the playoffs though) and fitted really well with Lebron. The Cavs had great rebounding and defense whereas Miami had Haslem starting at centre along with 2 rookies (one that turned out to be a bust and another that was a 2nd round pick).

I'm not saying he didn't deserve it because he had an amazing overall season, but Wade was pretty much counted out the whole season because of this idiotic media-driven belief that has people putting Tony Parker or Paul George as MVP candidates. It is retarded.

[TheCorporation]

No, the award is called the Most Valuable Player, not 'the most valuable player on the best or one of the best teams' - this mistaken belief is the reason why Nash has 2 MVPs and Rose has 1, among other examples.


Right. So isn't a player "more valuable" if they help the team get 66 wins instead of 43? lol I don't know about you, but I'd say he is 23 MORE wins valuable lol



Miami won 15 games the season before basically without Wade - that is a 28 win increase pretty much entirely on Wade's back. Bron improved from 45 to 66 wins (21 game increase) partly because of his slightly improved play, but it also had a lot to do with the signing of Mo Williams who was really effective for the Cavs that year (not in the playoffs though) and fitted really well with Lebron. The Cavs had great rebounding and defense whereas Miami had Haslem starting at centre along with 2 rookies (one that turned out to be a bust and another that was a 2nd round pick).


I get all that, but the truth remains:

The MVP almost ALWAYS goes to the #1 seed, except in some instances it goes to the #2 seed if the #1 seed is too stacked and there is no MVP.

You can argue how a player was more valuable to a team even though they had less wins (I don't know if you can argue someone is more valuable if they have 23 less wins though lol) but all someone has to argue back is: If your'e so valuable then why the **** do you only have 43 wins. It's kind of like Kevin Love, he is valuable, he is a good talent, but does it translate into wins? The dude has missed the playoffs every year, despite averaging 23/13 in his last 3 seasons...So how "valuable" is he, really?



I'm not saying he didn't deserve it because he had an amazing overall season, but Wade was pretty much counted out the whole season because of this idiotic media-driven belief that has people putting Tony Parker or Paul George as MVP candidates. It is retarded.

Wade got counted out because LBJ and Wade had similar stats, but Wade's stats netted his team 43 wins. LBJ's netted his team 66.

66 > 43

It really isn't that hard.

[Real14]

Kobe should of won it that year:coleman:

[TheCorporation]

The media hasn't awarded MVP to a player on a team who hasn't won at least 50 games since Kareem in the 70s.

Exactly, and there is no reason to award a team who loses damn near as many games as he wins (ie, 43 and 39) It's like I'm taking crazy pills.

"A man so valuable, he wins as many games as he loses."

:lol

"A man more valuable than a man that earned his team 23 more wins."

Is Wade in 2009 the most interesting man in the world now or what? lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That arbitrary "50 wins" mark is pretty dumb.

Any player (Wade for example) that can carry a roster as putrid as the 2009 Heat into the playoffs..is an MVP.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2009 was probably the most obvious MVP since Shaq in 2000. Maybe even more so.

[Trollsmasher]

The Heat were outscored by 191 points with Wade off the floor but outscored opponents by 212 with him in. They truly were an awful team without him. Pretty impressive stuff.

Until you look at LeBron.

Without LeBron the Cavs were outscored by 137 points which equates to -5.9/100 possessions. So they played as a bottom ~4 team without him. With him they outscored their opponents by 869 points, or +15.1/100 possessions. He literally took a bottom 4 team in the NBA and made it (at least record wise) a top 10 all-time team. That is beyond insane.

08-09 LeBron also holds the record for WS/48 for the playoffs.

08-09 LeBron was quite possibly the best player I have ever seen. And I was around for all of MJ. Wade and Kobe were great. LeBron was godly.
:bowdown:

[Dresta]

Right. So isn't a player "more valuable" if they help the team get 66 wins instead of 43? lol I don't know about you, but I'd say he is 23 MORE wins valuable lol



I get all that, but the truth remains:

The MVP almost ALWAYS goes to the #1 seed, except in some instances it goes to the #2 seed if the #1 seed is too stacked and there is no MVP.

You can argue how a player was more valuable to a team even though they had less wins (I don't know if you can argue someone is more valuable if they have 23 less wins though lol) but all someone has to argue back is: If your'e so valuable then why the **** do you only have 43 wins. It's kind of like Kevin Love, he is valuable, he is a good talent, but does it translate into wins? The dude has missed the playoffs every year, despite averaging 23/13 in his last 3 seasons...So how "valuable" is he, really?



Wade got counted out because LBJ and Wade had similar stats, but Wade's stats netted his team 43 wins. LBJ's netted his team 66.

66 > 43

It really isn't that hard.Yes, and that is idiotic.

Again: Lebron won 45 games the season before, and the difference was the addition of Mo Williams and Delonte West, and a slight elevation in Lebron's play. You're trying to argue that Lebron's slightly increased output somehow magicked his team to an extra 21 wins, which is nonsense.

Bron's team was far, far superior to Wade's that year. Denying it is denying the obvious. I'm not even saying Bron didn't deserve mvp, just that your reasons for it being clear cut is idiotic.

[TheCorporation]

That arbitrary "50 wins" mark is pretty dumb.

Any player (Wade for example) that can carry a roster as putrid as the 2009 Heat into the playoffs..is an MVP.

So a near .500 win rate is good enough for MVP eh? Even when the true, real MVP played like he was out of his mind, too, and won 23 more games?

[Dresta]

So a near .500 win rate is good enough for MVP eh? Even when the true, real MVP played like he was out of his mind, too, and won 23 more games?
He didn't win 23 more games, his team won 23 more games. That team was constructed to play to Lebron's strengths: great team defense, great rebounding, and a plethora of good shooters. Even their 7'3 C was a 20 foot jumpshooter on those Cavs teams.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So a near .500 win rate is good enough for MVP eh? Even when the true, real MVP played like he was out of his mind, too, and won 23 more games?

You act like I'm saying Lebron didn't deserve his MVP...relax :oldlol:

For a team like Miami to make the playoffs in 2009...was an aberration.

Is what it is

[TheCorporation]

You act like I'm saying Lebron didn't deserve his MVP...relax :oldlol:

For a team like Miami to make the playoffs in 2009...was an aberration.

Is what it is

I'm relaxed. I was asking a question. In the internet world "CAPS" is being unrelaxed. Or tons of emoticons. Or lots of these "!!!" lol etc. :P

[TheCorporation]

Yes, and that is idiotic.

Again: Lebron won 45 games the season before, and the difference was the addition of Mo Williams and Delonte West, and a slight elevation in Lebron's play. You're trying to argue that Lebron's slightly increased output somehow magicked his team to an extra 21 wins, which is nonsense.

Bron's team was far, far superior to Wade's that year. Denying it is denying the obvious. I'm not even saying Bron didn't deserve mvp, just that your reasons for it being clear cut is idiotic.

I never said Bron's team wasn't better, but you know what, that's how you win MVPs. Guess what, that's how you win Championships, too. Should we start handing out "good try, good effort" trophies for teams that had 1 good player but "since your team wasn't good enough you should still get something" trophies? It is what it is man, if you win a lot of games, you get awards. If you don't, too ****ing bad. If your team is better you will likely win more games and likely win a Championship. If it isn't, too ****ing bad.

What do you want, man? You're gonna try and justify giving an MVP to a team that went damn near 50/50 in Wins and Losses vs a team that won 66 games???

"Here is this award sir, you were so valuable to your team that you won as many games as you lost. You are the black Kevin Love. Congrats."

No.

[joeyjoejoe]

I actually considered CP3 a stronger MVP candidate that season than Wade.

Yea he had a huge tear with sometime like 23 5 11 3 on 50%