Rookie Wade won a playoff series with Odom as sidekick, Kobe in his prime couldn't?

[Akrazotile]

How did this happen? Keep in mind, this was before the West was even stacked. In 05-06 the Denver Nuggets won their division with 44 wins :oldlol:


Rookie Wade, along with Odom won a playoff series to move on to the conference semis. This was when Wade was a rookie and quickly established himself as 'the man.'

Then Odom gets traded to Kobe's Lakers while 'top 10 all-time' Kobe was in the prime of his career and they couldn't win a single playoff series until Pau and Fisher came to rescue them?


How come Kobe couldn't "will his team to win" even just a first round series for three straight years when DWade did it in his rookie season? :wtf:

[VIntageNOvel]

hi silk, what happens to your illuminati account?

[Haymaker]

Yeah Silk, get a life.

[coin24]

Cool story silk..

Your boy couldn't win with his hand picked stacked team:lol
This gon be easy.... Apparently not:cheers:

[navy]

Wade pre and post Shaq and pre Lebron is criminally underrated. Dude was playing on some of the worst teams ever seen.

In any case, shit happens. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

[Droid101]

Didn't this troll say he'd leave the forum if bran didn't score 45?

http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l638/BookmarksBookshelves/GIFS%20are%20my%20life/GTFO.gif

[tpols]

Because the Steve Nash led suns were a lot better than the Baron davis Hornets. Shocker.. I know.

[Droid101]

Because the Steve Nash led suns were a lot better than the Baron davis Hornets. Shocker.. I know.
So weird... that a team with a better record in the regular season (which Odom and Eddie Jones led them to, Wade didn't break out until the playoffs), and had homecourt advantage, would win in the playoffs? Who'd've thunk it?

[Akrazotile]

Because the Steve Nash led suns were a lot better than the Baron davis Hornets. Shocker.. I know.


Really, even without Amare?


So lets see, the Lakers had the best player (supposedly) in the series by far and according to Laker fans the Lakers had GOAT coach and Suns had WOAT coach.


So Kobe Bryant (A top 10 player of ALL TIME) and Phil Jackson (GOAT coach) and Odom, who just sidekicked Wade's playoff series win as a rookie...

..couldnt get by Nash, Marion, and the WOAT coach Mike Dantoni?


Really? Greatest player of his generation and GOAT coach couldnt win a playoff series against Nash and Mike Dantoni?

[Levity]

This fool was silk all along???

my lord, there are seriously some crazy mother fckers on this site. good fcking god.

[DMAVS41]

Odom in the 06 series;

19/11/5 56% TS

Suns were damn good though even without Amare

[SpecialQue]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-MQmXy-g7bHQ/U55YJiPhrAI/AAAAAAAAHmE/SxmlR-Ep7rk/s1600/leb.gif

[Jlamb47]

Silk Ur A Lame. 2/5

[Bigsmoke]

Wade had a better team and faced and easier team than the suns

[hangintheair]

http://images-cdn.9gag.com/photo/aM1MRAX_460sa_v1.gif

[Akrazotile]

Wade had a better team and faced and easier team than the suns


Why was Kobe's team seeded so low?


GOAT coach, Top 10 (some say top 5) player of ALL TIME... Plus Odom (sixth man of the year award winner, Kwame = #1 overall pick).

Kobe couldn't lead a team with GOAT coach, 6MoY, and a #1 pick to a better record than a 7th or 8th seed??? :biggums:

[Droid101]

Odom's 2004 Heat won 42 games, good for 4th seed and home court advantage in the East, earning them the right to drag out seven games against a not-so-great Baron (pre Warrior), Jamaal Magloire, and David Wesley.

Kobe's 2006 Lakers won 45 games, good for 7th seed and the chance to take on one of the best offenses in the history of the NBA.

[Xiengqichess]

Don't ever put Wade and Kobe in the same sentence , please. Imagine Kobe with Lebron , Bosh and Ray on the same team when he's 32(09-10). Come on..

[97 bulls]

Really, even without Amare?


So lets see, the Lakers had the best player (supposedly) in the series by far and according to Laker fans the Lakers had GOAT coach and Suns had WOAT coach.


So Kobe Bryant (A top 10 player of ALL TIME) and Phil Jackson (GOAT coach) and Odom, who just sidekicked Wade's playoff series win as a rookie...

..couldnt get by Nash, Marion, and the WOAT coach Mike Dantoni?


Really? Greatest player of his generation and GOAT coach couldnt win a playoff series against Nash and Mike Dantoni?
Wow. Checkmate.

This is the one thing I hate about the internet. People can choose to skip a post like this that is basically irrefutable.

[PJR]

Don't ever put Wade and Kobe in the same sentence , please. Imagine Kobe with Lebron , Bosh and Ray on the same team when he's 32(09-10). Come on..

Kobe would be content with taking 14 shots a game? I don't think so.

[Akrazotile]

Kobe would be content with taking 14 shots a game? I don't think so.


Thats the thing. There are smart fans, who can actually see when a player is being effective by NOT forcing bad shots. And then there are Kibe stans. Who are the "shiney object" crowd. If he scores 48 points its just like, amaazzzinnggg, whoaaaa!!!! Even if he did it on 33 shots :facepalm


They dont care. Point total = wooahhhh!!!!!!


Even tho the Lakers win more when Kibe shoots and scores LESS. :oldlol: But they dont care. Point toal = wooaahhhh!!! If Kibe scores 50 by selfishly hogging the ball all game and they lose? Wheres the help! Get it done, Mitch!

[Black and White]

Wait this is Silkk??? :biggums: how many accounts does this nikka have?

[Droid101]

Wait this is Silkk??? :biggums: how many accounts does this nikka have?
He has Silk, Akrazoloser, Rocketswin, 6 for 24, and I think I'm still ballin is him too.

[Akrazotile]

He has Silk, Akrazoloser, Rocketswin, 6 for 24, and I think I'm still ballin is him too.


I also still use my GOBB account on occasion.

[Black and White]

He has Silk, Akrazoloser, Rocketswin, 6 for 24, and I think I'm still ballin is him too.

Rocketswin2013 is Silkk too? :facepalm that guy is an ass.

[Genaro]

Get a life, nikka

[knicksman]

bran stans dumbest on this board. Deal with it kids. Your boy lost while having a 3rd option better than gasol. Your IQs got exposed so bad this year

[Jameerthefear]

Damn. Truth. Kobe is now out of my top 20.

[SyRyanYang]

Eastern Conference :roll:

[tpols]

Wow. Checkmate.

This is the one thing I hate about the internet. People can choose to skip a post like this that is basically irrefutable.

That was a checkmate??

You realize bores draw subbed for amare and averaged 18/8/7 against LA..boris draw honestly is a better basketball player than amare. His iq and feel for the game are insanely good and he does everything at a high level. All amare did elite was score.


It's actually ironic as hell that Akrazotile was ignorant of amazes replacement given that he loves to call out players like amare for being one dimensional role players while bores by his definition might be a superstar because he takes on many different roles

[TheBigVeto]

Wade is better than Kobe. This is a fact.

[Akrazotile]

That was a checkmate??

You realize bores draw subbed for amare and averaged 18/8/7 against LA..boris draw honestly is a better basketball player than amare. His iq and feel for the game are insanely good and he does everything at a high level. All amare did elite was score.


It's actually ironic as hell that Akrazotile was ignorant of amazes replacement given that he loves to call out players like amare for being one dimensional role players while bores by his definition might be a superstar because he takes on many different roles


I'm well aware of Boris Diaw's presence on those Suns but guess what? You could make that same 'intangibles' argument for Diaw, about Luke Walton. But if you try and claim Walton was a useful player on all those teams Kibe underachieved with, his stans will be like :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


So I boiled it down the way Kibe's stans always do. Coach, alpha, beta. Coach, batman, robin. Coach, first option, second option. That's the deepest you can go with them because by nature they are shallow minded.


I used the exact same logic they use. They always dismiss guys like Odom, Walton, Fisher, from Kobe's success. They give the credit to the batman, and pick one guy to be his 'robin' to compare the team's situation with other teams' batman and robin.


Kibe is supposed to be one of the TOP 10 greatest basketball players OF ALL TIME. Phil Jackson has eleven rings which by Kibe stan logic makes him GOAT. Laker fans also claim D'Antoni would be garbage as a D-league coach and scapegoat him for all of Kibe's recent failure.


So how you gonna explain that Phil, Kibe lost to Nash and DANTONI twice in a row in the playoffs? Dantoni is a shit coach, remember??? Phil is GOAT and Kibe is top 10!!!! Kibe "wills his team to win" he is a killer instinct assassin who puts the team on his back and closes and rises to the occasion and won't stop until he collapses and all that..

And he lost to Nash and MIKE DANTONI in the playoffs.... TWICE! In his prime. Kibe lost to a scrawny lil Canadian white guy. Twice. In the playoffs. While in his prime. With the GOAT coach on his bench.

[97 bulls]

That was a checkmate??

You realize bores draw subbed for amare and averaged 18/8/7 against LA..boris draw honestly is a better basketball player than amare. His iq and feel for the game are insanely good and he does everything at a high level. All amare did elite was score.


It's actually ironic as hell that Akrazotile was ignorant of amazes replacement given that he loves to call out players like amare for being one dimensional role players while bores by his definition might be a superstar because he takes on many different roles
His whole point was to show how faulty their line of reasoning is. Not whether or not they should've won or not.

[tpols]

I'm well aware of Boris Diaw's presence on those Suns but guess what? You could make that same 'intangibles' argument for Diaw, about Luke Walton. But if you try and claim Walton was a useful player on all those teams Kibe underachieved with, his stans will be like :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


So I boiled it down the way Kibe's stans always do. Coach, alpha, beta. Coach, batman, robin. Coach, first option, second option. That's the deepest you can go with them because by nature they are shallow minded.


I used the exact same logic they use. They always dismiss guys like Odom, Walton, Fisher, from Kobe's success. They give the credit to the batman, and pick one guy to be his 'robin' to compare the team's situation with other teams' batman and robin.


Kibe is supposed to be one of the TOP 10 greatest basketball players OF ALL TIME. Phil Jackson has eleven rings which by Kibe stan logic makes him GOAT. Laker fans also claim D'Antoni would be garbage as a D-league coach and scapegoat him for all of Kibe's recent failure.


So how you gonna explain that Phil, Kibe lost to Nash and DANTONI twice in a row in the playoffs? Dantoni is a shit coach, remember??? Phil is GOAT and Kibe is top 10!!!! Kibe "wills his team to win" he is a killer instinct assassin who puts the team on his back and closes and rises to the occasion and won't stop until he collapses and all that..

And he lost to Nash and MIKE DANTONI in the playoffs.... TWICE! In his prime. Kibe lost to a scrawny lil Canadian white guy. Twice. In the playoffs. While in his prime. With the GOAT coach on his bench.

A PRIME Larry Bird, who was considered by many at the time to be GOAT level, has lost to a bucks team led by a relatively unknown sidney moincrief..

A PRIME Kareem Abdul Jabbar has lost to a seattle supersonic team in the first round led by Gus Williams( dont even lie and tell me you know who these players are, there literally nobodies when talkin ball around here)..



Kobe lost to some stacked suns teams.. his overall team was very weak outside of odom, and the suns had a full attack.. they were 1 and 2 seeds with HCA and expected to win from the start.

The fact that you just tried to compare luke waltons effectiveness to that of diaws is appaling:biggums:

[Droid101]

Did this dipshit just compare Boris Diaw in 2006 to Luke Walton?

[Bodhi]

Did this dipshit just compare Boris Diaw in 2006 to Luke Walton?
Luke Walton did have great intangibles

In 2009 he met with Phil and asked for Ariza to start over him and the team instantly improved

Few players are so insightful and selfless

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A PRIME Larry Bird, who was considered by many at the time to be GOAT level, has lost to a bucks team led by a relatively unknown sidney moincrief..

A PRIME Kareem Abdul Jabbar has lost to a seattle supersonic team in the first round led by Gus Williams( dont even lie and tell me you know who these players are, there literally nobodies when talkin ball around here)..



Kobe lost to some stacked suns teams.. his overall team was very weak outside of odom, and the suns had a full attack.. they were 1 and 2 seeds with HCA and expected to win from the start.

The fact that you just tried to compare luke waltons effectiveness to that of diaws is appaling:biggums:

No white text?

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe won two titles with Odom as his sidekick. :biggums:

As soon as he left Kobe, he turned into :biggums:

:facepalm

[KyleKong]

I like how no one on the first page answered the OP's question. :oldlol:

OP won all your hearts.

[Magic 32]

http://s7.postimg.org/t7wpl20ln/image.png

http://s28.postimg.org/poi3z9eb1/xzcz.png

Barbosa ourplayed the third best player on the Lakers ......Kwame Brown.

[GrapeApe]

That Heat team was pretty good. After a horrendous start they finished the season winning 17 out of 20 games. Wade was looking like a future superstar, Odom was entering his prime, Caron Butler was healthy, and SVG was an emerging coach. That group would have been contenders in the east had they stayed together.

[Akrazotile]

http://s7.postimg.org/t7wpl20ln/image.png

http://s28.postimg.org/poi3z9eb1/xzcz.png

Barbosa ourplayed the third best player on the Lakers ......Kwame Brown.


You're talkin bout third best players? :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Bro, Kibe is supposed to be a top 10 player of all time. Phil is the GOAT coach.

Kibe has FIVE RINGS and Phil has ELEVEN RINGS, and the entire purpose of giving them credit for those team achievements is supposed to be because the elite players can propel their teams, right? I mean, THATS the entire "five rings" argument when you point out that every metric that calculates Kibe's impact shows he's overrated.


Kibe gets individual credit for "five rings" team and no Kibe stan will ever tell you that he had great teammates and a deep bench. It was all Kibe, he "willed" them to win and stands in the top 10 due primarily to having "five rings". But three straight years in his PRIME he couldn't will anyone to win shit, and lost to Mike 'Antoni twice in a row in the playoffs?? In his prime, for three straight years couldn't win a single series, a top 10 all time guy? Five rings Kibe? Can't win as 'the man' in a single first round series? During his absolute peak???

:confusedshrug:

[Dresta]

Don't ever put Wade and Kobe in the same sentence , please. Imagine Kobe with Lebron , Bosh and Ray on the same team when he's 32(09-10). Come on..
That would be an utter disaster. Kobe put up with giving shots to Shaq for so long because he was far more often the guy with the ball in his hands, and frequently decided to take more shots than the best player in the world at the time. How d'you think that's gonna work out with Lebron, seriously?

[stalkerforlife]

http://s7.postimg.org/t7wpl20ln/image.png

http://s28.postimg.org/poi3z9eb1/xzcz.png

Barbosa ourplayed the third best player on the Lakers ......Kwame Brown.

lol

[stalkerforlife]

Look at that Lakers squad...

Do any of them still play in the NBA?

lol

[Black and White]

Look at that Lakers squad...

Do any of them still play in the NBA?

lol

LeBron stans like to bash his supporting cast, but did he ever have Walton, Smush, Kwame type players as his 3rd, 4th and 5th options??

[Akrazotile]

Look at that Lakers squad...

Do any of them still play in the NBA?

lol

You could say that about Bran's Cavs that he dragged to the FINALS.


Kibe couldnt win in the first round. The FIRST ROUND. :facepalm

[tpols]

You could say that about Bran's Cavs that he dragged to the FINALS.


Kibe couldnt win in the first round. The FIRST ROUND. :facepalm

Eastern conference :lol


If the Lakers got to play the 41 win wizards in the first round instead of the 54 and 61 win suns they would murk them even with only odom/kobe as their good players. Once again, the conferences are not equal. Why wont you acknowledge it?

[stalkerforlife]

LeBron stans like to bash his supporting cast, but did he ever have Walton, Smush, Kwame type players as his 3rd, 4th and 5th options??

Bron has never had that bad of a supporting cast.

[Black and White]

You could say that about Bran's Cavs that he dragged to the FINALS.


Kibe couldnt win in the first round. The FIRST ROUND. :facepalm

Playoffs:

Big z - 12/9

Gooden - 11/8

Hughes - 11ppg


Its not super bad like you say, LeBron was the clear cut best player, sometimes it just happens bro.

[Akrazotile]

Eastern conference :lol


If the Lakers got to play the 41 win wizards in the first round instead of the 54 and 61 win suns they would murk them even with only odom/kobe as their good players. Once again, the conferences are not equal. Why wont you acknowledge it?


Wait, we're going to blindly credit guys for "rings" without taking the ROSTER into account, but we're gonna nitpick about conferences? :facepalm

Bran has led a team to the finals FIVE times as the best player... before age 30 :eek: . Kibe started his career playing with prime Shaq. So we're gonna give him credit for titles but not hold him accountable for first round losses in his prime. And we're gonna nitpick Bran's conference...


:wtf:

[Warfan]

I remember kibe being outplayed by nash that series :bowdown:


Playoffs:

Big z - 12/9

Gooden - 11/8

Hughes - 11ppg


Its not super bad like you say, LeBron was the clear cut best player, sometimes it just happens bro.


I'm pretty sure Hughes shot like 30% in the playoffs that year, nikka was garbage.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You could say that about Bran's Cavs that he dragged to the FINALS.


Kibe couldnt win in the first round. The FIRST ROUND. :facepalm

07 Cavs had the 4th best D in the league and only beat one team with a winning records before getting swept in the Finals. :confusedshrug:

[Black and White]

I'm pretty sure Hughes shot like 30% in the playoffs that year, nikka was garbage.

I didnt say he had a superstar cast, but 2 guys almost averaging double doubles isnt overly bad.

[Akrazotile]

07 Cavs had the 4th best D in the league and only beat one team with a winning records before getting swept in the Finals. :confusedshrug:

Bran committed to D early in his career and has been a top flight defensive player.

Kibe has said he wont take charges, he never covered guys like Durant, Melo, D-Will etc in the playoffs but instead covered Raja Bell, Thabo Sefalosha, and Anthony Carter. When he covered Reggie Miler, Rip Hamilton, Pierce/Allen? Got lit up.

LMAO @ using D as an excuse for Kibe. Theres a reason Brans teams play better defense than Kibes. Bran sets the tone for his team, Kibe hides and lets others do the work. Maybe if he took D seriously hed have gotten out of the first round at least once in his prime without a stacked team. Guys like Howard and CP3 have managed that.

[tpols]

Wait, we're going to blindly credit guys for "rings" without taking the ROSTER into account, but we're gonna nitpick about conferences? :facepalm

Bran has led a team to the finals FIVE times as the best player... before age 30 :eek: . Kibe started his career playing with prime Shaq. So we're gonna give him credit for titles but not hold him accountable for first round losses in his prime. And we're gonna nitpick Bran's conference...


:wtf:

I dont know what you want me to tell you. You acknowledge Kobe's pre-2005 abundance of help, but willfully ignore that his teams post-2005 were awful.. Nobody is winning without help.. unless of course if you want to drop them into a shitty conference. Drop brans 07 cavs out west and theyre booted first or second round by the mavs or spurs or suns every time.

[J Shuttlesworth]

http://s7.postimg.org/t7wpl20ln/image.png

http://s28.postimg.org/poi3z9eb1/xzcz.png

Barbosa ourplayed the third best player on the Lakers ......Kwame Brown.
lol wtf? Your stats show Kwame and Walton outplaying Barbosa :biggums:

[Droid101]

Everyone, stop responding to akrazoloser and his alts. He promised he'd leave the forums if bran didn't score 45 in a game of the finals. Instead of living up to that promise, he's trolling harder than ever before.

Stop trying to make "kibe" happen, it's not going to happen.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrlinuX7VB1qg6v9wo1_400.gif

[Akrazotile]

http://s7.postimg.org/t7wpl20ln/image.png

http://s28.postimg.org/poi3z9eb1/xzcz.png

Barbosa ourplayed the third best player on the Lakers ......Kwame Brown.


Kibe: MInutes played 45. Assists 5.1

Diaw: Minutes played 41. Assists 6

:lol

[Black and White]

Kibe: MInutes played 45. Assists 5.1

Diaw: Minutes played 41. Assists 6

:lol

Do you really need me to explain why this stat is flawed?

[Akrazotile]

Do you really need me to explain why this stat is flawed?


Fine but only if you explain why "rings" is flawed first.

[tpols]

Kibe's not bad:oldlol: it makes him sound like some type of mouse or rat.. always scheming how to get dat fmvp and hog all the glory

kinda like his version of bran

[Dresta]

Wait, we're going to blindly credit guys for "rings" without taking the ROSTER into account, but we're gonna nitpick about conferences? :facepalm

Bran has led a team to the finals FIVE times as the best player... before age 30 :eek: . Kibe started his career playing with prime Shaq. So we're gonna give him credit for titles but not hold him accountable for first round losses in his prime. And we're gonna nitpick Bran's conference...


:wtf:
Not 5 times, 4 times. Wade was as good as Bron in 2011, and played better than him in the playoffs overall. Can't say he led at all that season.

[Black and White]

Fine but only if you explain why "rings" is flawed first.

You just used a pointless stat to try and claim that Kobe can't carry a team :oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Bran committed to D early in his career and has been a top flight defensive player.

Kibe has said he wont take charges, he never covered guys like Durant, Melo, D-Will etc in the playoffs but instead covered Raja Bell, Thabo Sefalosha, and Anthony Carter. When he covered Reggie Miler, Rip Hamilton, Pierce/Allen? Got lit up.

LMAO @ using D as an excuse for Kibe. Theres a reason Brans teams play better defense than Kibes. Bran sets the tone for his team, Kibe hides and lets others do the work. Maybe if he took D seriously hed have gotten out of the first round at least once in his prime without a stacked team. Guys like Howard and CP3 have managed that.

Lebron admitted he didnt focus on D until after getting swept in 07...


James credits his increased attention to defense to the chase for a title. After the 2007 Finals sweep, James focused on improving his entire game. It was magnified with Team USA, which committed to winning Olympic gold with defense. James was at the heart of it.

"The last two summers he totally dominated the Olympic team," McMillan said. "We had a lot of guys who were great on that team but he was the quarterback of our defense. He guarded the power forward so he could see the floor, Coach [Mike Krzyzewski] was always talking about his voice on defense.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/03/nba_insider_could_lebron_james.html

:confusedshrug:

[Akrazotile]

Not 5 times, 4 times. Wade was as good as Bron in 2011, and played better than him in the playoffs overall. Can't say he led at all that season.


Wade certainly had a stronger role back then and was playing well, its hard to say he was the actual 'best player' IMO when bran was in the middle of mvp awards and 60 win seasons and was the consensus best player in the game. Up until the finals he was the slightly more important player to the team overall. He basically murdered Derrick Rose's will to live in the ECF.

Altho in the finals I dont think its a stretch to say Wade had the edge :lol

[Black and White]

Lebron admitted he didnt focus on D until after getting swept in 07...



http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/03/nba_insider_could_lebron_james.html

:confusedshrug:

:applause: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Akrazotile]

Lebron admitted he didnt focus on D until after getting swept in 07...



http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2009/03/nba_insider_could_lebron_james.html

:confusedshrug:


So Bran committed to being a good defensive player at age 22.

Whereas Kibe...


One way the Lakers could plan to get the Thunder, who had the most turnovers in the league during the regular season with 16.35 per game, to cough it up more would be to try to take charges in Game 2.

Just don't expect Kobe Bryant to be the one taking them.

"We got a couple guys that take charges, but for the most part, the one guy that took a charge is now playing in Oklahoma," Bryant said after practice Tuesday, referring to Derek Fisher. "I don't take charges.

The 33-year-old veteran who is playing in his 16th season



:facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

So Bran committed to being a good defensive player at age 22.

Whereas Kibe...





:facepalm

Kobe Bryant won his first all defensive team award in the year 2000. He was 21 years old. :confusedshrug:

[Droid101]

Kobe Bryant won his first all defensive team award in the year 2000. He was 21 years old. :confusedshrug:
Facts stand in the way of troll arguments, you can't bring them up!

[Dresta]

Wade certainly had a stronger role back then and was playing well, its hard to say he was the actual 'best player' IMO when bran was in the middle of mvp awards and 60 win seasons and was the consensus best player in the game. Up until the finals he was the slightly more important player to the team overall. He basically murdered Derrick Rose's will to live in the ECF.

Altho in the finals I dont think its a stretch to say Wade had the edge :lol
I think they were pretty equal that year in the playoffs really. Wade had a better series against the Celtics and Mavs, Bron against the Bulls and Philly. Wade had the better numbers overall. So it's a stretch to say he led them as the definitive best player THAT year. The other 4 though, yeah, definitely.

[Black and White]

So Bran committed to being a good defensive player at age 22.

Whereas Kibe...





:facepalm

Your point got proven wrong and you bring up Kobe???

[Akrazotile]

Kobe Bryant won his first all defensive team award in the year 2000. He was 21 years old. :confusedshrug:


:roll:


Iverson and Yao have been voted to all-star teams in seasons they didn't play.

But I guess that's a testament to how well they performed in those seasons, huh? :hammerhead:

[Black and White]

:roll:


Iverson and Yao have been voted to all-star teams in seasons they didn't play.

But I guess that's a testament to how well they performed in those seasons, huh? :hammerhead:

:biggums: You realise that the all-star teams are voted on by the public and its a popularity contest right???

You are looking like an idiot right now :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

:roll:


Iverson and Yao have been voted to all-star teams in seasons they didn't play.

But I guess that's a testament to how well they performed in those seasons, huh? :hammerhead:

Are you accusing NBA coaches of selecting 21 year old Kobe to the all defensive team because they are "Stans"?

I just want to verify how delusional you are before continuing with this conversation.

[stalkerforlife]

Are you accusing NBA coaches of selecting 21 year old Kobe to the all defensive team because they are "Stans"?

I just want to verify how delusional you are before continuing with this conversation.

I don't think he realizes the coaches voted Kobe to all those defensive teams. :roll:

Which is far more impressive than an award given out by the media.

[Akrazotile]

Are you accusing NBA coaches of selecting 21 year old Kobe to the all defensive team because they are "Stans"?

I just want to verify how delusional you are before continuing with this conversation.



You think Mike Dantoni, Isiah Thomas, Mike Woodson et al were astutely identifying the league's best defensive players when they voted? :roll:

[Black and White]

You think Mike Dantoni, Isiah Thomas, Mike Woodson et al were astutely identifying the league's best defensive players when they voted? :roll:

3 coaches out of 21, try justify the other 18 coaches, go.

[Akrazotile]

:biggums: You realise that the all-star teams are voted on by the public and its a popularity contest right???

You are looking like an idiot right now :facepalm


You're right, the public are idiots who never get it right. I actually agree.


Btw who's the most popular player in the last 15 years?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You think Mike Dantoni, Isiah Thomas, Mike Woodson et al were astutely identifying the league's best defensive players when they voted? :roll:

None of those coaches voted for the all defensive team in 2000.

:facepalm

[Black and White]

You're right, the public are idiots who never get it right. I actually agree.


Btw who's the most popular player in the last 15 years?

Why does that matter?

[Akrazotile]

Are you accusing NBA coaches of selecting 21 year old Kobe to the all defensive team because they are "Stans"?

I just want to verify how delusional you are before continuing with this conversation.


Also, I know you're trying to defend Kibe here but for the sake of information, coaches give less than zero fukcs worth about the stuff they get asked to vote for. They can't vote for their own players so they don't give any semblance of a shit who makes these teams. They usually hand it to their assistant to fill out and he just sticks the most popular names down.

You're basically annihilating your own credibility and confirm your trolling by acting like Kibe was a top 2 defensive guard for 12 years in a row :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

None of those coaches voted for the all defensive team in 2000.

:facepalm


Point being that most of the coaches in the league don't last three years and get ran out of town for incompetence. Also, see the above post.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Also, I know you're trying to defend Kibe here but for the sake of information, coaches give less than zero fukcs worth about the stuff they get asked to vote for. They can't vote for their own players so they don't give any semblance of a shit who makes these teams. They usually hand it to their assistant to fill out and he just sticks the most popular names down.

You're basically annihilating your own credibility and confirm your trolling by acting like Kibe was a top 2 defensive guard for 12 years in a row :oldlol:

Source? Why did Larry Bird and Magic Johnson make so few all defensive teams if that was the case?

[stalkerforlife]

None of those coaches voted for the all defensive team in 2000.

:facepalm

:roll:

Damn.

Someone stop the bleeding.

[Akrazotile]

Source? Why did Larry Bird and Magic Johnson make so few all defensive teams if that was the case?


Look at the All-D Team article on wikipedia.

They highlight the players who are in the HOF.

In the 70s and 80s, only about half or less of the players selected to the All-D team ultimately made the HOF.

Starting in the 90s, basically every All-D player selected was a 'star' and future HOFer and who knows if they were necessarily the most deserving player.



It's asinine to suggest Kibe deserved to be on the first team all-D multiple times in any stage of his career. Every stat as well as the eye test bears this out. He gets lit up in the finals. He doesn't cover top players on the way there. His metrics are mediocre. He refuses to take charges. People actually have fresh memory of guys eating him up the last couple years he won it.

He's not a great defensive player and never was. Oh, and Bran murders him head-to-head.

[chazzy]

People actually have fresh memory of guys eating him up the last couple years he won it
That's the only thing you seem to remember. So, if coaches just blindly put popular players on all defensive teams, why didn't Lebron make a 1st OR 2nd team until 2009? Why did Iguodala make it above Lebron this year?

[Akrazotile]

That's the only thing you seem to remember. So, if coaches just blindly put popular players on all defensive teams, why didn't Lebron make a 1st OR 2nd team until 2009? Why did Iguodala make it above Lebron this year?


I can't speak to the reasons every selection played out the way it did in each year.

That doesn't negate the fact that there is no evidence Kobe ever deserved to be called a top 2 defensive guard in the NBA. I gave my reasons. Always ducked hard covers in the playoffs. Got lit up in the finals. Won't even take charges. Stats show he underwhelms. Eye test is painfully clear.

THere is a preponderance of evidence that his all-D teams are a farce. I'm not even gonna dwell on this one because it's obvious and accepted by virtually all non stans to be the case. It's barely worth explaining. Everyone knows those selections are fraudulent.

[chazzy]

I can't speak to the reasons every selection played out the way it did in each year.

That doesn't negate the fact that there is no evidence Kobe ever deserved to be called a top 2 defensive guard in the NBA. I gave my reasons. Always ducked hard covers in the playoffs. Got lit up in the finals. Won't even take charges. Stats show he underwhelms. Eye test is painfully clear.

THere is a preponderance of evidence that his all-D teams are a farce. I'm not even gonna dwell on this one because it's obvious and accepted by virtually all non stans to be the case. It's barely worth explaining. Everyone knows those selections are fraudulent.
No, people say his recent all defensive teams are based on reputation. You're saying he never defended well and was given awards because he was popular. But the Lebron example I gave goes completely against that. So you've got nothing

[SexSymbol]

:biggums: You realise that the all-star teams are voted on by the public and its a popularity contest right???

You are looking like an idiot right now :facepalm
He is.

Stop responding to a known troll, he does not have any friends or somebody to talk to at least so he has to "troll" the basketball forum.

[Akrazotile]

No, people say his recent all defensive teams are based on reputation. You're saying he never defended well and was given awards because he was popular. But the Lebron example I gave goes completely against that. So you've got nothing


Its not just pure popularity, it's narrative. You think the guys who fill these out arent influenced by trends in mainstream thinking?

Kibe was getting all the MJ comparisons during his career, and MJ was known as a defensive beast, and the assistants who fill these things out were aware of the narrative and clearly fed into it. They assume if Kibe is the new MJ and the 'ultimate competitor' and all the cliches, he must be a stud on defense. Just like the way fans mindlessly assume all sorts of stuff. Look on team benches. A lot of these assistant coaches are guys you think 'wtf, hes an assistant now??' Its not exactly an institute of basketball scholars. Its a known fact coaches give these surveys and polls to their gofers to fill out. Moreover, the voters dont even care. They jot down the consensus.

The narrative this year was that Paul George emerged as an elite defensive player. You think any voter sat down and compared Bran and George side by side either on video or in stats? Of course not. These things are not taken seriously, and whatever the popluar narrative is almost always plays out.


Kibe was supposed to be the new MJ, and MJ was an all-D guy so they made Kibe an all-D guy. But everyone knows he wasnt. End of story.

[Akrazotile]

He is.

Stop responding to a known troll, he does not have any friends or somebody to talk to at least so he has to "troll" the basketball forum.


This is like the fifth user name youve tried to bait me with in the last hour alone :facepalm

[GimmeThat]

Well, because Brian Grant who was a stud (probably better than Haslem when you compare their prime by all counts) Just disappeared once being traded to LA.

Then Caron Butler was traded for Kwame Brown. Who, may have very well make an all star appearance or two had he stayed with the Lakers. I'll even say this, that had he stayed with the Lakers, there's no reason to think he wouldn't be better or have a better career than lets say Deng.

When looking back, we can even say a rookie Wade essentially won a series with the eventual sixth man of the playoffs (because Odom won 2 rings coming off the bench). While Kobe in his prime couldn't win a series with the eventual sixth man of the playoffs.

Unless you can somehow really justify how Wade>Kobe now knowing how the majority of their career will pan out. It's safe to say you'd have to take the rest of the roster they had to play with into consideration.

[GimmeThat]

Kibe was supposed to be the new MJ, and MJ was an all-D guy so they made Kibe an all-D guy. But everyone knows he wasnt. End of story.


He never handchecked anyone. I'll agree with you on that.

[navy]

That's the only thing you seem to remember. So, if coaches just blindly put popular players on all defensive teams, why didn't Lebron make a 1st OR 2nd team until 2009? Why did Iguodala make it above Lebron this year?
The media voted for the award this year.

[chazzy]

Its not just pure popularity, it's narrative. You think the guys who fill these out arent influenced by trends in mainstream thinking?

Kibe was getting all the MJ comparisons during his career, and MJ was known as a defensive beast, and the assistants who fill these things out were aware of the narrative and clearly fed into it. They assume if Kibe is the new MJ and the 'ultimate competitor' and all the cliches, he must be a stud on defense. Just like the way fans mindlessly assume all sorts of stuff. Look on team benches. A lot of these assistant coaches are guys you think 'wtf, hes an assistant now??' Its not exactly an institute of basketball scholars. Its a known fact coaches give these surveys and polls to their gofers to fill out. Moreover, the voters dont even care. They jot down the consensus.

The narrative this year was that Paul George emerged as an elite defensive player. You think any voter sat down and compared Bran and George side by side either on video or in stats? Of course not. These things are not taken seriously, and whatever the popluar narrative is almost always plays out.


Kibe was supposed to be the new MJ, and MJ was an all-D guy so they made Kibe an all-D guy. But everyone knows he wasnt. End of story.
Why didn't Lebron, the most hyped player ever, the chosen one... reap the same benefits until 09?

[Akrazotile]

Why didn't Lebron, the most hyped player ever, the chosen one... reap the same benefits until 09?


Because Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.


If they didnt do it by position and just picked the top 5, Bran would have probably taken Kibe's spot much earlier.

But again, you're grasping for logical loopholes and formalities. Everyone onows Kibe was never an elite defensive player, ever. Even the stans cant actually come up with examples or cite any evidence, they simply rely on 'all-d team' over and over. Nobody's buyin it.

[chazzy]

Because Kevin Garnett and Tim Duncan.

.. and household names like Kirilenko, Bowen, Prince etc? You know, the popular guys? Remember, he didn't make 2nd team either.


But again, you're grasping for logical loopholes and formalities.
I'm not the one grasping here. It's just fun watching you scramble for excuses to support your dumb initial theory, as usual

[Akrazotile]

.. and household names like Kirilenko, Bowen, Prince etc? You know, the popular guys? Remember, he didn't make 2nd team either.

I'm not the one grasping here. It's just fun watching you scramble for excuses to support your dumb initial theory, as usual


Bran >>> Kibe on defense
Bran >>> Kibe on offense

It is what it is. Deal with your life.