Kawhi would be #1 pick over Kyrie if draft was redone

[unbreakable]

Kawhi the unselfish, elite defender with elite range (+50% fg, +50%3pt in finals :bowdown: ), elite athleticism, humble , great teammate, no drama, gets dirty , listens to coach

Kyrie the diva, doesnt play defense, doesnt involve teammates, plays for himself, does too many commercials, fought with star teammate Dion Waiters because Waiters taking his shine, predicted to make playoffs but failed miserably.. gifted 2 consecutive #1 picks and luol deng and still doesnt do anything worth note IN THE EAST lol.. got mike brown fired because he didnt wanna play tough defense

Kawhi has already proven hes the best player from that draft and will go down as a HOFer :bowdown:

[navy]

Kawhi is a system player. Im not to sure about that.

[unbreakable]

Kawhi is a system player. Im not too sure about that.


like anyone could come in and shoot 50% from field and 50% from 3pt LMAO.

you could put melo or paul george on the 96 bulls and they still aint shooting 50%

[ottooooooo]

yup kawhi > kyrie

[navy]

like anyone could come in and shoot 50% from field and 50% from 3pt LMAO.

you could put melo or paul george on the 96 bulls and they still aint shooting 50%
The entire Spurs team had similar numbers. Post his other series stats and regular season stats.

You are delusional to think he could maintain 50% from three. I dont even think he is a 40% outside of the Spurs.

How many threes did he even take? 20ish? Lebron shot 50% from 3 as well. Is he a 50% three point shooter?

[rmt]

Chip Engelland remade Kawhi's shot. They only had 2 days together before the lockout. When he came back, Spurs saw that he'd put in the work on his shot during the lockout.

Duncan said that he'd invited him to play pickup games during the lockout but didn't see anything special about him that would have warranted trading George Hill for him but he trusted Pop and RC. Worked out well - Leonard has a MUCH higher ceiling than Hill and can defend the Lebrons/Durants.

[ottooooooo]

kyrie is mediocre and not improving, kawhi is very good and improving

[RedBlackAttack]

Unbelievably stupid take and I love Kawhi. He landed in the perfect situation. Who knows how things go if he lands anywhere else.

Meanwhile, Kyrie continues to be unjustly skewered by people who probably didn't watch a single Cavs game last year.

[unbreakable]

Unbelievably stupid take and I love Kawhi. He landed in the perfect situation. Who knows how things go if he lands anywhere else.
.


kawhi has proven he has the hunger and desire to succeed no matter if he went to spurs or wizards..

kyrie has proven..... hes got some good highlights? :lol

[ottooooooo]

system player argument is bullshit, kawhi has a nice all around game and athleticism and would do well anywhere

[imdaman99]

Prisoner of the moment.

I like Kawhi and I would even take him over Melo on the Knicks going forward... but let's slow down.

He is not exclusively a system player, but that system has enhanced how he has looked and played. More than a role player, but not too much reigns where he would get exposed. If he was on his own team, no he would not average 25 points a game.

[Jameerthefear]

honestly kawhi is probably more impactful. kyrie is the better player. both aren't going to be the best player on a championship team, but give me kawhi because he can fit pretty much anywhere.

[unbreakable]

system player argument is bullshit, kawhi has a nice all around game and athleticism and would do well anywhere

exactly. kawhi could go anywhere and start. :cheers:

meanwhile, kyrie wouldnt even start on most playoff teams.

[navy]

He is good defensively and at rebounding. His offense has much to be desired. Dont let a Finals hot streak from 3 cloud your judgement.

He may very well end up being much better than Kyrie.

[Jameerthefear]

exactly. kawhi could go anywhere and start. :cheers:

meanwhile, kyrie wouldnt even start on most playoff teams.
kyrie would start on any playoff team, but he might not fit. not so efficient, small, bad defensively guards<<<< tho

[Collie]

It's difficult to really rate players on the Spurs. What would Kyrie have done with the Spurs? Maybe a better version of TP in his prime.

[RedBlackAttack]

A SF actually went 2nd overall in that draft and he's bounced around the league. Maybe that's the pick you need to question and not a 21 year old PG who is a 2x All-Star and one of the best young prospects in the league? J/S

[Cocaine80s]

A SF actually went 2nd overall in that draft and he's bounced around the league. Maybe that's the pick you need to question and not a 21 year old PG who is a 2x All-Star and one of the best young prospects in the league? J/S
wtf happened to derrick williams anyways?

[navy]

wtf happened to derrick williams anyways?
Minnesota happened. :facepalm

He currently plays for the Kings.

[LoneyROY7]

U trippin bro.

He doing work like this because of the system.

[hawksdogsbraves]

It's not even close, one is a very good role player one is a 22 year old multiple time All-Star.

[unbreakable]

A SF actually went 2nd overall in that draft and he's bounced around the league. Maybe that's the pick you need to question and not a 21 year old PG who is a 2x All-Star and one of the best young prospects in the league? J/S

nobody is doubting kyries ability to make highlights and do well in harlem globe trotter type atmospheres..

but if you want a winner on both sides of the ball who will be a great leader , teammate, and listen to coach.. you take kawhi

kawhi has much more upside than kyrie .. the game is much more than commercials and ESPN highlights bro

[Dizzle-2k7]

nice catch OP...

Kawhi >> Kyrie by about 15 miles

[Cocaine80s]

Lol Kawhi in Cleveland with Waiters :oldlol:

Wouldnt win shit until Lebron came back home

[Fallen Angel]

Kawhi would never be as good of a shooter (or scorer for that matter) he is today without the Spurs' staff.

[Papaya Petee]

hell to the ****ing no.

Leonard gets one of the weakest FMVPs ever in a team that had 4 FMVP candidates gets a DPOY that belonged to Draymond Green and now hes a superstar?

Kids been beyond blessed to be learning from Pop and Timmy D. Kyrie had nobody at first, look at the amazing progress hes made under Lebron this season.

His jumpshot is elite, so are his handles. Hes becoming a great defender and only improving. Once he becomes an improved passer the kid has top 5 in the league potential.


Kyrie> kawhi

[Lensanity]

Right now I'd definitely take Kawhi especially because he is a SF and PGS are a dime a dozen. However, in a re draft i wouldn't be so sure. Kawhi has been fortunate enough to play under Pop for his whole career so far. With a different coach he may not have developed anywhere near as well. Kyrie on the other hand got to play under the legendary Mike Brown and Byron Scott. Not exactly the brightest minds in the NBA.

[Dizzle-2k7]

hell to the ****ing no.

Leonard gets one of the weakest FMVPs ever in a team that had 4 FMVP candidates gets a DPOY that belonged to Draymond Green and now hes a superstar?



Outplays MVP Lebron on biggest stage, but gets called a weak FMVP

LOL... you kids are funny :oldlol:


hes becoming a great defender

LOL.. kyrie a great defender! LOLLLOL

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi ceiling is much higher

[Papaya Petee]

Outplays MVP Lebron on biggest stage, but gets called a weak FMVP

LOL... you kids are funny :oldlol:



LOL.. kyrie a great defender! LOLLLOL
Outplayed Lebron???:roll: :roll: are you on ****ing crack? Lebron averaged 28/8/5 on over 50% shooting and was scoring at will. Spurs played brilliant team ball and had 4 players playing great basketball, Leonard just played a little better. The Heat played terribly, lebron individually played great statistically one of the worst FMVPs in a long time

[Dizzle-2k7]

crack? Lebron averaged 28/8/5 on over 50% shooting and was scoring at will.


:roll:

scoring at will in garbage time when the game was already over. Kawhi was in Lebrons head and dominated him in all aspects of the game... mental and physical.

//post that gif of lebron getting shook when kawhi is checking in the game

[Milbuck]

Honestly I might take Kyrie. This isn't about who is the better player right now, it's about who you would take in a draft, assuming equal circumstances. People are underestimating just how awesome the Spurs coaching/development staff is, how much easier it is to play and improve there. Kawhi is obviously a beast but how good is he today if he was on the Sixers from day 1 and just thrown to the wolves? No elite spacing, elite ball movement, playmakers and shooters all around him, elite two-way coaching, foundation of winning, high IQ, leadership, years of chemistry, smart front office, none of that stuff. Where he's the one who has to build his game from the ground up, build that winning tradition, and essentially carry the franchise from the get go?

Because that's the position Kyrie was in. I honestly think if Kyrie was drafted to the Spurs, he's a Curry-level player right now. His passing/vision would be honed substantially more, he'd develop a much more lethal off-ball game, they would demand more consistent defensive intensity from him, his overall decision making on offense would be refined, they'd harness all of his raw talent so much more effectively. Hell, as it is he could reach Curry's level...the guy is still only 23 and is 4 years younger.

[Fallen Angel]

Kawhi ceiling is much higher
Funny thing is that his ceiling would never had been as high if he hadn't gotten traded to San Antonio.

That was the absolute perfect fit for Kawhi.

[Dizzle-2k7]

Because that's the position Kyrie was in. I honestly think if Kyrie was drafted to the Spurs, he's a Curry-level player right now. His passing/vision would be honed substantially more, he'd develop a much more lethal off-ball game, they would demand more consistent defensive intensity from him, his overall decision making on offense would be refined, they'd harness all of his raw talent so much more effectively. Hell, as it is he could reach Curry's level...the guy is still only 23 and is 4 years younger.

spurs would never draft a diva like kyrie who doesnt play defense

kyrie would be trying to get pop fired like he did mike brown

[scm5]

Kawhi is a system player. Im not to sure about that.

Even if offensively, Kawhi is a system player, he's a monster on defense while also capable of putting up decent stats Pop or not.

I would take Kawhi over Kyrie.

[r0drig0lac]

Funny thing is that his ceiling would never had been as high if he hadn't gotten traded to San Antonio.

That was the absolute perfect fit for Kawhi.
I agree, but not change the fact in question

[Legends66NBA7]

No it wouldn't. Coaching matters so much in these scenarios.

[scm5]

Funny thing is that his ceiling would never had been as high if he hadn't gotten traded to San Antonio.

That was the absolute perfect fit for Kawhi.

Actually, if the Pacers drafted him, I could see Kawhi turning out just as well.

He fits perfectly in their defense alongside PG and Hibbert and they would have developed him offensively like they developed PG.

[Milbuck]

I agree, but not change the fact in question
How does it not? The question is about a re-draft, as in, it's not specified where the players are drafted to, and if they're both in consideration for #1, it'll be equal circumstance for both of them. It has nothing to do with the players they are right now because that has a ton to do with the team they were originally drafted to and developed by.

[FatComputerNerd]

No GM in their right mind takes Kawhi over Kyrie right now, unless they already have a superstar PG.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

I wouldn't want to build a team around either as my franchise player.

[r0drig0lac]

How does it not? The question is about a re-draft, as in, it's not specified where the players are drafted to, and if they're both in consideration for #1, it'll be equal circumstance for both of them. It has nothing to do with the players they are right now because that has a ton to do with the team they were originally drafted to and developed by.
sorry, I talked about Kawhi ceiling be higher. Regarding the project, irving would be chosen before Kawhi that's for sure

[MP.Trey]

People still say Kyrie doesn't play defense? Have any of them watched the Cavs the past 3 months?

[RedBlackAttack]

People still say Kyrie doesn't play defense? Have any of them watched the Cavs the past 3 months?
That's a tag that takes time to lose. I remember when LeBron entered the league and his defense was suspect for the first couple years, we were well into 2007 before the masses began to admit that he was having a major impact defensively.

Kyrie is never going to be that level of a defender. James is obviously a once-in-a-generation athlete. But, all Kyrie has to be is solid with his offensive prowess. He's well on his way to being that.

He really is starting to get a handle on the mental errors which plagued him early in his career. He would just lose focus and his effort was up and down. He's much more consistent now and usually these days when he gets beat, it is because of good offense, not bad defense.

He has come a long way since the end of his second year. There was improvement last year and that continued this season.

As for this thread, a re-draft would come out looking a lot different with the emergence of Kawhi, Butler and Thompson. But, the top pick would be the same all things equal and assuming the team picking didn't already have an elite PG. I think a lot of people overlook just how high Kyrie's ceiling is. He is younger than Lillard, MCW or Shabazz Napier. He is still one of the three youngest starting PGs in the NBA.

Youngest to oldest players who started at least 40 games this season...

1. Elfrid Payton - 13.8 PER
2. Trey Burke - 12.6 PER
3. Kyrie Irving - 21.5 PER
4. Michael Carter-Williams - 14.1 PER

[Leroy Jetson]

In two years this question will be a joke. Kawhi is probably the hardest working player in the NBA. People who know him say he would be in the gym 24/7 if he could. His improvement this year has been mind blowing. You are looking at the next Pippen. Kyrie is a great player but I think in the long run Kawhi is gonna be a lot more of a special player. He is always going to be way more impactful on defense, on offense he could get to be close to Kyrie so overall he will be the better player.

[Relinquish]

No GM in their right mind takes Kawhi over Kyrie right now, unless they already have a superstar PG.

Nice joke. :oldlol:

[chips93]

kawhi is the better player right now imo, but like others have said, you cant discount the coaching disparity.

where would kawhi be if he had byron scott and mike brown as his coaches the first 3 years.

the progress he's made is insane, he came into the league a great rebounding, but undersized 4, who couldnt shoot at all. now hes automatic pulling up from midrange, immaculate footwork and balance, hitting turnaround jumpers from the post, making smart reads on offense, and the DPOY.

if he could be the clear number one option, he'd easily give you 20 a night, with elite defense, and good rebounding. kyrie cant match that overall impact, even if he has him beat as a scorer/passer.

[RedBlackAttack]

kawhi is the better player right now imo, but like others have said, you cant discount the coaching disparity.

where would kawhi be if he had byron scott and mike brown as his coaches the first 3 years.

the progress he's made is insane, he came into the league a great rebounding, but undersized 4, who couldnt shoot at all. now hes automatic pulling up from midrange, immaculate footwork and balance, hitting turnaround jumpers from the post, making smart reads on offense, and the DPOY.

if he could be the clear number one option, he'd easily give you 20 a night, with elite defense, and good rebounding. kyrie cant match that overall impact, even if he has him beat as a scorer/passer.
I look at players in the Spurs system completely differently from any other players in the NBA. Boris Diaw's career was essentially over in 2011-12. He was averaging 7 points and 2+ turnovers a game on a team where -- if you watched him play now -- you'd think he'd be piling up garbage statistics.

Realistically, he looked done. Retirement was imminent.

Then, he goes to San Antonio and he is almost immediately impacting the game all over the court. His FG% went from 41% to 59% the moment he slipped on that Spurs jersey.

Danny Green was an NBA throw-away. A few years in San Antonio and he's suddenly an incredible piece on both ends of the floor.

Of course, guys have to be willing to buy into that system, but players drafted into that machine are difficult to rank as individuals in the grand scheme.

So, to say what Kawhi would do as a first option in some other system -- even now? I'm not sure. If he were drafted by some other franchise? God only knows.

If Kyrie had spent his first four seasons in San Antonio, I can't even imagine how good he'd be right now. Elite shooter from all over the court and an elite slasher/finisher ... in that offense?

[Posterized]

I look at players in the Spurs system completely differently from any other players in the NBA. Boris Diaw's career was essentially over in 2011-12. He was averaging 7 points and 2+ turnovers a game on a team where -- if you watched him play now -- you'd think he'd be piling up garbage statistics.

Realistically, he looked done. Retirement was imminent.

Then, he goes to San Antonio and he is almost immediately impacting the game all over the court. His FG% went from 41% to 59% the moment he slipped on that Spurs jersey. He only averaged 4.7 ppg his first season in SA. He was much more efficient but that's not uncommon for a player who goes to a much better team while having a decreased role.

Really Diaws play and production with the Spurs hasn't deviated from the rest of his career. His struggles in Charlotte had more to do with his motivation and conditioning or lack thereof than anything else imo.


Danny Green was an NBA throw-away. A few years in San Antonio and he's suddenly an incredible piece on both ends of the floor.

Green was only 22 and had played in 20 games before joining the spurs, way too early to make any judgment on his career.

[chips93]

I look at players in the Spurs system completely differently from any other players in the NBA. Boris Diaw's career was essentially over in 2011-12. He was averaging 7 points and 2+ turnovers a game on a team where -- if you watched him play now -- you'd think he'd be piling up garbage statistics.

Realistically, he looked done. Retirement was imminent.

Then, he goes to San Antonio and he is almost immediately impacting the game all over the court. His FG% went from 41% to 59% the moment he slipped on that Spurs jersey.

Danny Green was an NBA throw-away. A few years in San Antonio and he's suddenly an incredible piece on both ends of the floor.

Of course, guys have to be willing to buy into that system, but players drafted into that machine are difficult to rank as individuals in the grand scheme.

So, to say what Kawhi would do as a first option in some other system -- even now? I'm not sure. If he were drafted by some other franchise? God only knows.

If Kyrie had spent his first four seasons in San Antonio, I can't even imagine how good he'd be right now. Elite shooter from all over the court and an elite slasher/finisher ... in that offense?

Yeah, I guess I didn't really answer the thread properly re who I'd draft retrospectively. I'm just saying that right now I'd take kawhi over kyrie.

I agree with you in guys like green and diaw, they're effective because the ball is constantly moving in San Antonio. Green gets open looks he would get elsewhere, and diaw gets to catch and drive against a compromised defense.

But in Leonards case, with the shots he's taking and hitting I think it would easily translate. He's hitting contested pull ups, shots from the post. They even ran a clear out for him at the end of regulation, no ball movement, just letting him go to work, and they got a wide open 3 out of it.

It's not like he's just knocking down open corner threes that he wouldn't get elsewhere, he's making a lot tough shots that aren't necessarily coming off of the spurs ball movement.

[chips93]

Green was only 22 and had played in 20 games before joining the spurs, way too early to make any judgment on his career.

The point is he was cut several times, nobody wanted him, and they turned him into a legit playoff level starting wing.

[NBASTATMAN]

I agree... Kawhi is a superstar at this point.. On any other team he would easily avg 20 ,8reb, 4 ass.. If you paired him with Lebron it would be over for the league.. Imagine those two at the three and four.. That teams defense would be sick...

[NBASTATMAN]

kawhi is the better player right now imo, but like others have said, you cant discount the coaching disparity.

where would kawhi be if he had byron scott and mike brown as his coaches the first 3 years.

the progress he's made is insane, he came into the league a great rebounding, but undersized 4, who couldnt shoot at all. now hes automatic pulling up from midrange, immaculate footwork and balance, hitting turnaround jumpers from the post, making smart reads on offense, and the DPOY.

if he could be the clear number one option, he'd easily give you 20 a night, with elite defense, and good rebounding. kyrie cant match that overall impact, even if he has him beat as a scorer/passer.


:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

How is this close?

Kyrie is not on his level.

[theaussieguy]

How is this close?

Kyrie is not on his level.

Agreed, whats more valuable to a team, a PG who doesn't play like he should (plays like a SG detracting from team flow and chemistry) or a SF that is a defensive beast and good on the offensive end. Good PG's are all over the league, good 2 way players at Kawaiis size are athleticism and few and far between.

[Kobe_6/8]

The point is he was cut several times, nobody wanted him, and they turned him into a legit playoff level starting wing.

Dennis Rodman wasn't drafted until age 25...many athletes are still 'finding their place' in their early 20's.

[Dizzle-2k7]

If Kyrie had spent his first four seasons in San Antonio, I can't even imagine how good he'd be right now. Elite shooter from all over the court and an elite slasher/finisher ... in that offense?


LOL @ you thinking Kyrie could hande the Spurs system.. he 'd be trying to get Pop fired after 2 months.. or begging for a trade

Kyrie is a diva.. divas only work in situations where they are babied and coddled. Kyrie could never be a Spur.. Pop wouldnt take him for free

[SoCalLakersFan1]

I'm sure Kyrie would have the passing of Stockton, the fearlessness of AI, the defense of Payton, and the shooting of Curry if he played in the Spurs system. 2 years under a great coach is more important than talent or the previous 19 years of a players' life.

[Derka]

These vintage reactionary threads are always gold :lol

[chips93]

Dennis Rodman wasn't drafted until age 25...many athletes are still 'finding their place' in their early 20's.

there are exceptions, but the vast vast majority of guys cut that early never amount to anything

danny green is an incredible outlier

[chips93]

LOL @ you thinking Kyrie could hande the Spurs system.. he 'd be trying to get Pop fired after 2 months.. or begging for a trade

Kyrie is a diva.. divas only work in situations where they are babied and coddled. Kyrie could never be a Spur.. Pop wouldnt take him for free

yet he was team usa's best player, playing for one of the more demanding coaches in the world ...

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics33/800/NJ/NJCNVRILKOVZNFL.20140915013554.jpg

[Relinquish]

yet he was team usa's best player, playing for one of the more demanding coaches in the world ...

http://image.cdnllnwnl.xosnetwork.com/pics33/800/NJ/NJCNVRILKOVZNFL.20140915013554.jpg

Wow, he played for his former coach? I'm amazed.

Also, that team wasn't exactly filled with the league's best players.

[aj1987]

:roll:

scoring at will in garbage time when the game was already over. Kawhi was in Lebrons head and dominated him in all aspects of the game... mental and physical.

//post that gif of lebron getting shook when kawhi is checking in the game
That gif was from 2013, dumb ****.

As Pete said, Kawhi was on a TEAM, which was much much better than the Heat. 5 Spurs scored in double figures. As a team, they shot 47% from 3 and 52% from the field. Only one player shot under 40% from the 3 for the Spurs.

Continue with your delusion though. :oldlol:

[ThickassGlasses]

These vintage reactionary threads are always gold :lol

It's not like we are comparing Jan Vesely or Marcus Morris to Kyrie. We are comparing a guy who has won a FMVP (regardless of how you feel about it) and a DPOY award already. Coming out he was known as an athletic wing that can defend and if he could discover an offense game he'd be awesome.

So far he is projecting just like his upside said he could, if not even better as well as he's been shooting. The only major step he has left is creating offense for the team and not just himself.

It's not absurd to take him over Kyrie.

[Dizzle-2k7]

That gif was from 2013, dumb

LOL @ you thinking that FEAR didnt carry over onto next seasons..

lebron did not do anything ELITE against Kawhi, meanwhile Kawhi dominated Lebron on offense.. in the post, 3 ball, transition, etc..

u mad Kawhi is playing like a areal MVP?... doesnt play next to 2 superstars like bron either

[Rose'sACL]

LOL @ you thinking that FEAR didnt carry over onto next seasons..

lebron did not do anything ELITE against Kawhi, meanwhile Kawhi dominated Lebron on offense.. in the post, 3 ball, transition, etc..

u mad Kawhi is playing like a areal MVP?... doesnt play next to 2 superstars like bron either
Lebron did pretty well. Unlike what this forum thinks, nearly all of his points came when heat had a chance to come back and not in garbage time. Go ahead prove me wrong. Also, defense was the thing that killed heat.

[chips93]

Wow, he played for his former coach? I'm amazed.

Also, that team wasn't exactly filled with the league's best players.

coach k doesnt coddle anyone, hes bigger than kyrie

if he was a diva he wouldnt have survived, let alone thrived under K at duke and for team usa.

[GimmeThat]

If This was baseball with no salary cap, I would definitely agree with the sentiment.

You would Have to be very careful with the length of contract given out if you use your top pick on kawhi. Where as careful with the duration of Kyries contract since the bidding war would be heavy.

Too many parallels to be drawn with.


I look at this comparison similar to Chris Bosh and Tyson Chandler.
Comes down to whether a short stop and second base who can hit can be more valuable than a gold glove catcher who has the power to hit home runs.

[aj1987]

LOL @ you thinking that FEAR didnt carry over onto next seasons..

lebron did not do anything ELITE against Kawhi, meanwhile Kawhi dominated Lebron on offense.. in the post, 3 ball, transition, etc..

u mad Kawhi is playing like a areal MVP?... doesnt play next to 2 superstars like bron either
Nah, he plays next to 3 HOF'ers.

Yeah, he sure did dominate LeBron. Scored 18 PPG while LeBron was dropping 28 PPG on him. Dat domination though.

Are you mad that LeBron at age 30 is ranked higher than your idol? :oldlol:

[Quickening]

Nah, he plays next to 3 HOF'ers.

Yeah, he sure did dominate LeBron. Scored 18 PPG while LeBron was dropping 28 PPG on him. Dat domination though.

Are you mad that LeBron at age 30 is ranked higher than your idol? :oldlol:

Yes I have never really understood this... Lebron put up historic stats in last years finals. When was the last time a player scored 28 ppg, on 50 percent fg and 50 percent from 3 in the finals?

Yes Leonard had a good scoring series, but it wasn't as good as Lebrons... and the whole spurs team benefited from their system as shown in their shooting percentages.

[ClipperRevival]

I take Kawhi. There is nothing more valuable in basketball than an athletic, two way wing player outside of maybe a dominant, two way big.

[Sarcastic]

I'd still take Kyrie.

[VIntageNOvel]

I look at players in the Spurs system completely differently from any other players in the NBA. Boris Diaw's career was essentially over in 2011-12. He was averaging 7 points and 2+ turnovers a game on a team where -- if you watched him play now -- you'd think he'd be piling up garbage statistics.

Realistically, he looked done. Retirement was imminent.

Then, he goes to San Antonio and he is almost immediately impacting the game all over the court. His FG% went from 41% to 59% the moment he slipped on that Spurs jersey.

Danny Green was an NBA throw-away. A few years in San Antonio and he's suddenly an incredible piece on both ends of the floor.

Of course, guys have to be willing to buy into that system, but players drafted into that machine are difficult to rank as individuals in the grand scheme.

So, to say what Kawhi would do as a first option in some other system -- even now? I'm not sure. If he were drafted by some other franchise? God only knows.

If Kyrie had spent his first four seasons in San Antonio, I can't even imagine how good he'd be right now. Elite shooter from all over the court and an elite slasher/finisher ... in that offense?

Agree, Kobe > Duncan

[veilside23]

Kyrie for me ..

i wonder whats next danny green ?

how i wish kawhi could have played elsewhere before we make this assumption .

I have been always defending leonard but no way i would take him over kyrie. I am not even a kyrie irving fan.

its like saying that leonard is on par with KD, LBJ, Kobe because that's a notch higher than kyrie.

[rhowen4]

these spurs players are sure hard to gauge

[KyrieTheFuture]

LOL @ you thinking Kyrie could hande the Spurs system.. he 'd be trying to get Pop fired after 2 months.. or begging for a trade

Kyrie is a diva.. divas only work in situations where they are babied and coddled. Kyrie could never be a Spur.. Pop wouldnt take him for free
Relax.