Was Michael Jordan a ball hog? Be Honest?

[TAZORAC]

I was watching an old Hawks vs Bulls game, Jordan shot 5 times in a row, 3 of those times NOBODY ELSE even touched the ball. He would come up court, dribble dribble and post the guy up then do a turn around. When he was a younger ball hog, he would dribble all day and run around.

Do you consider Jordan a ball hog?

[pastis]

until you win it all, nobody cares

[Warfan]

He was a very good off the ball player AND could still dominate offensively ball-in-hand (goat scorer and a great passer). He was very effective and efficient throughout his career. Under Pjax he learned to trust his teammates more, let scottie play point forward and he adapted well to the new system. So maybe during the first few years of his career u could maybe say he was one...

But no, I wouldn't call him a ballhog in the sense that he was a very selfish player and it hurt his team. And even if u do think he is u can't argue with his dominance and consistency, nothing wrong with him taking the ball up the court or demanding the ball a lot since more often than not he was gonna do something positive.

But if u just mean in the sense he dominated the ball a lot? Well, no shit, pretty much every great player and scorer did...

[Real Men Wear Green]

Of course he was. Just about every great scorer dominates the ball. What matters is whether or not the ball-hog is an effective player. It's not like he was Stackhouse out there.

[Asukal]

Yes he is, but a very skilled one. Greatest scorer of all time. :rockon:

[9512]

You don't lead the league in scoring by being selfless.

[Inactive]

When he was young, definitely. As he got older, he certainly wasn't shy about shooting, but he was willing to play quite a bit off the ball, and make a quick move once he received it. I would say the shift occurred in the 90 season.

[sdot_thadon]

Oh yeah, easily. That was practically the main criticism he faced early in his career. When Phil became head coach he had to get Jordan to buy into the triangle in order to get the ball out of his hands. The offense was a vehichle to get everyone else on the floor touches. I don't believe it was a thing of him starting to trust his teammates more until he saw they could be productive within the system. He still had the green light anytime he touched the rock, but the structure at least allowed his teammates opportunities more often.

[Soundwave]

You have to be willing to take shots to put up those kinds of numbers, but Jordan was a very good off-the-ball player and quite willing to give up the ball if a teammate was in a better quick-score position.

Part of that I think comes from his time at UNC and being coached by Dean Smith.

[lilteapot]

People liken Kobe to Michael and thus people assume Michael forced up bad shots and held the ball for 99% of the possessions in the game.


He really didn't, he played off the ball quite a bit, and only took good, high quality shots. Obviously he got the most touches but let's not act like he was a complete ballhog. Maybe in that 63 pt game against the Celtics when he was much younger, but at that point who isn't selfish?

[sdot_thadon]

People liken Kobe to Michael and thus people assume Michael forced up bad shots and held the ball for 99% of the possessions in the game.


He really didn't, he played off the ball quite a bit, and only took good, high quality shots. Obviously he got the most touches but let's not act like he was a complete ballhog. Maybe in that 63 pt game against the Celtics when he was much younger, but at that point who isn't selfish?
He most definitely was not kobe, his shot selection was worlds better. With that said his off ball game didn't truly come to the forefront until Phil took over and the triangle was implemented. He was notorious for threatening to freeze out teammates for various reasons. As they say winning cures everything right?

[tontoz]

He was definitely a ball hog in his younger days, but even then he was still an efficient scorer. In his rookie year he averaged 28 ppg with a TS of 59%, insane numbers for a guy who had no 3 point shot.

When Phil came in it was a constant struggle to get him to let go of the ball. Even in the deciding game of the Finals Phil called him out.

It was near the end of the game and in the huddle Phil yelled at MJ "Who is open!". Jordan was silent. Phil yelled the same question again and MJ said Paxon. Phil said ok let's find him.

Then Jordan passed to Paxon a few times in a row and Pax hit all the jumpers, winning the title.

[ILLsmak]

Of course he was. Just about every great scorer dominates the ball. What matters is whether or not the ball-hog is an effective player. It's not like he was Stackhouse out there.

Maybe. I mean, someone who shot jacks or makes a move every time they get the ball is not really a ball hog. They are just a shot jacker. A ball hog, to me, stops it.

I don't know if MJ was a true ball hog. You almost gotta bring the ball up. Westbrook is a ball hog. If you can bring the ball up and shoot it without anyone else getting a touch, then you are a ball hog.

Beyond that, the team is giving you the ball, so how can you hog it? Unless they pass it to you and you just pound it for 10 seconds then take a stupid shot. We've seen that before, too.

That's how I FEEL DOE.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

You don't lead the league in scoring by being selfless.

Double post.

KD just lead the league in scoring without being a ball hog.

-Smak

[wakencdukest]

Yes. He was Kobe before Kobe. Sure he was the more efficient player, but he was still a ball pounding one on one player who used up the shot clock. He was the original ISO king, Kobe just came along later and took it to a whole new level.

[played0ut]

Yup. Particularly pre-Jackson. He didn't trust his teammates/thought they were no good.


Funny little anecdote, paraphrased. In his earlier years, some Coach told him, "There's no I in team."


He replied with,

"There's an I in win."


:roll: :roll: :roll:

[jstern]

Yes. He was Kobe before Kobe. Sure he was the more efficient player, but he was still a ball pounding one on one player who used up the shot clock. He was the original ISO king, Kobe just came along later and took it to a whole new level.

I wouldn't describe Jordan as someone who used up the time clock.


Yup. Particularly pre-Jackson. He didn't trust his teammates/thought they were no good.


Funny little anecdote, paraphrased. In his earlier years, some Coach told him, "There's no I in team."


He replied with,

"There's an I in win."


:roll: :roll: :roll:

I think that was Phil. I remember reading it in his book back in 97 or so.

[MadeFromDust]

He was their highest percentage option and most difficult for defenses to stop. Of course give him the rock and get out the way

It took him awhile before he could trust people like Kerr and Paxson to take a big outside 3 here or there

[wakencdukest]

I wouldn't describe Jordan as someone who used up the time clock.



I think that was Phil. I remember reading it in his book back in 97 or so.




Ok, Maybe not to the level of some of his disciples, but he was the first 2 guard I can remember who was the primary ball handler and used the dribble to set up all his moves.

[Calabis]

Yes. He was Kobe before Kobe. Sure he was the more efficient player, but he was still a ball pounding one on one player who used up the shot clock. He was the original ISO king, Kobe just came along later and took it to a whole new level.

:rolleyes:

Uhh no Jordan was not a hold onto the ball the entire shot clock player.....he was more of a in the flow of the offense type of guy that when he got it....he was shooting. Ball hog is a bad term.....ball dominant, only time I remember him controlling the ball like Lebron is when he was asked to run point guard. Shot Jacker is a better term aka black hole....."if he gets it, he's shooting." Young Jordan had to be hard to play with. Luckily he evolved.

Kobe same thing as young Jordan...yet he has never evolved he continues to play the same way...which is why he is so hard to play with.

[Dro]

:rolleyes:

Uhh no Jordan was not a hold onto the ball the entire shot clock player.....he was more of a in the flow of the offense type of guy that when he got it....he was shooting. Ball hog is a bad term.....ball dominant, only time I remember him controlling the ball like Lebron is when he was asked to run point guard. Shot Jacker is a better term aka black hole....."if he gets it, he's shooting." Young Jordan had to be hard to play with. Luckily he evolved.

Kobe same thing as young Jordan...yet he has never evolved he continues to play the same way...which is why he is so hard to play with.
:applause:

[dreamwarrior]

He was but unlike Kobe he only took quality shots. You never saw him chucking anything unless it was a last second shot.

[GimmeThat]

his teammates were selfish enough to somehow find a way to get the ball and help the team win.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Jordan didn't mind passing it to another player for the game winners either. See Paxson and Kerr

[navy]

There were times in his younger days where he blatantly hogged the ball and played for personal stats instead of winning. But he grew out of it soon enough, plus he was really efficient.

[SexSymbol]

he's as much of a ballhog as Kobe is

[stalkerforlife]

Of course Jordan was a ball hog.

All great alphas know the best way to win is to take it upon yourself.

[Calabis]

Jordan didn't mind passing it to another player for the game winners either. See Paxson and Kerr

We are talking about young Jordan though:oldlol:

[DJ Leon Smith]

Are we talking about the guy who is second behind Magic in NBA Finals series APG stats?

Not sure of the agenda behind this thread but also not sure of who this agenda is meant to back up.

[FatComputerNerd]

Is this a joke thread?


"MICHAEL JORDAN THE PUPPETEER"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiTOXUmsdoM