Michaerl Jordan vs. Magic Johnson Career Head-to-Head Stats

[dankok8]

We already have Jordan-Bird and Magic-Bird. It's time for Jordan-Magic!!

'84-'85 Season

12/02/1984

Jordan: 20/2/3/1/1 (7/13, 6/8) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 12/7/16/0/2 (4/9, 4/5) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Magic wins match-up.

02/19/1985

Jordan: 16/6/8/0/0 (6/13, 4/5) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 20/3/12/0/0 (9/13, 2/4) with 4 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 18.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.5 apg, 0.5 bpg, 0.5 spg on 50.0 %FG/56.7 %TS with 3.5 topg
Magic: 16.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 14.0 apg, 0.0 bps, 1.0 spg on 59.1 %FG/61.6 %TS with 3.0 topg


'86-'87 Season

11/28/1986

Jordan: 41/10/3/1/1 (19/43, 3/4) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 30/2/9/0/0 (10/24, 10/10) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash.

02/20/1987

Jordan: 33/2/5/2/5 (11/27, 11/12) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 28/6/16/0/0 (12/20, 4/5) with 5 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 37.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.5 bpg, 3.0 spg on 42.9 %FG/48.0 %TS with 2.5 topg
Magic: 29.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 12.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 50.0 %FG/57.3 %TS with 4.0 topg


'87-'88 Season

02/02/1988

Jordan: 39/2/4/1/3 (14/26, 11/11) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 25/2/11/0/0 (11/17, 3/5) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash.

03/10/1988

Jordan: 38/9/7/1/3 (17/34, 4/4) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/2/4/0/0 (2/5, 3/3) with 1 turnover

Bulls win. Magic played just 10 minutes.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 38.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.0 bpg, 3.0 spg on 51.7 %FG/57.8 %TS with 2.5 topg
Magic: 16.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 7.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 59.1 %FG/62.7 %TS with 2.0 topg


'88-'89 Season

12/20/1988

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash.

03/21/1989

Jordan: 21/8/16/0/1 (7/20, 7/8) with 5 turnovers
Magic: 20/8/12/0/2 (7/13, 5/6) with 7 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 31.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.0 apg, 0.0 bpg, 2.5 spg on 41.9 %FG/56.0 %TS with 3.0 topg
Magic: 25.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 12.0 apg, 0.0 bpg, 2.5 spg on 58.1 %FG/67.8 %TS with 4.5 topg


'89-'90 Season

12/19/1989

Jordan: 37/7/5/1/2 (15/29, 5/5) with 7 turnovers
Magic: 18/12/10/0/4 (6/16, 5/6) with 3 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

02/07/1990

Jordan: 32/4/4/1/0 (12/21, 8/12) with 8 turnovers
Magic: 22/8/17/0/2 (7/14, 5/5) with 4 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 34.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.0 bpg, 1.0 spg on 54.0 %FG/60.0 %TS with 7.5 topg
Magic: 20.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 13.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 3.0 spg on 43.3 %FG/57.4 %TS with 3.5 topg


'90-'91 Season

12/21/1990

Jordan: 33/15/9/1/2 (14/30, 5/6) with 1 turnover
Magic: 18/9/14/0/0 (7/14, 0/1) with 5 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

02/03/1991

Jordan: 23/7/9/1/6 (10/22, 3/3) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/7/11/0/0 (2/4, 1/1) with 5 turnovers

Lakers win. Jordan wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 28.0 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 9.0 apg, 1.0 bpg, 4.0 spg on 46.2 %FG/50.0 %TS with 1.5 topg
Magic: 12.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 50.0 %FG/66.2 %TS with 5.0 topg


'91 Finals

Game 1

Jordan: 36/8/12/0/3 (14/24, 7/9) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 19/10/11/0/2 (4/5, 9/10) with 5 turnovers

Stats look in Jordan's favour but Magic absolutely dominated this game late. When Jordan defended him Earvin badly abused him in the post. Bulls would switch Pippen on Magic starting from Game 2.

Lakers win.

Game 2

Jordan: 33/7/13/1/2 (15/18, 3/4) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 14/7/10/0/2 (4/13, 6/6) with 4 turnovers

Marvellous performance by Jordan.

Bulls win.

Game 3

Jordan: 29/9/9/2/4 (11/28, 6/6) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 22/6/10/0/2 (7/15, 8/9) with 5 turnovers

This one was a wash individually between the two superstars but Jordan iced the game with a jumper over Divac in OT.

Bulls win.

Game 4

Jordan: 28/5/13/2/0 (11/20, 6/6) with 1 turnover
Magic: 22/6/11/0/0 (6/13, 10/10) with 2 turnovers

Worthy and Scott exit the game with series-ending injuries. Bulls win but the individual battle is again close though slightly in MJ's favor.

Game 5

Jordan: 30/4/10/2/5 (12/23, 6/8) with 6 turnovers
Magic: 16/11/20/0/1 (4/12, 6/6) with 6 turnovers

Magic does a valiant job leading the undermanned Lakers team but the game gets away from them. Magic posts the third 20+ assist game in the Finals and to this day is the only player in history to record even one of them. Statistically he outplayed Jordan in this one.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 31.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 1.4 bpg, 2.8 spg on 55.8 %FG/50.0 %3P/61.2 %TS with 3.6 topg
Magic: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.2 spg on 43.1 %FG/28.6 %3P/61.2 %TS with 4.4 topg

Jordan got the better of Magic in this series and Bulls won 4-1 but outside of Game 2, Magic played Jordan to close to a draw in the other four games. It was a valiant performance by the aging floor general who just didn't have the team behind him in this series.


'95-'96 Season

02/02/1996

Jordan: 17/7/7/0/1 (8/17, 1/1) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 15/3/3/0/1 (6/13, 1/2) with 3 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.


Cumulative Season Stats

Jordan: 30.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.8 apg, 0.8 bpg, 2.4 spg on 47.5 %FG/28.6 %3P/54.1 %TS with 3.2 topg
Magic: 19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 11.3 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.1 spg on 52.2 %FG/43.3 %3P/61.0 %TS with 3.6 topg

Out of 13 games, Bulls won 7 and Lakers won 6.

Keep in mind that the 7-point game where Magic played just 10 minutes hurts his cumulative averages a fair bit. Until '90-'91 where he took over as the best player in the league, Jordan didn't get the better of Magic. Overall in the period from '87-'90 the two men played each other to a draw.

[stalkerforlife]

I don't get why you compared these two. Jordan is so far ahead, it is mind boggling.

Magic isn't even the best player ever for his own franchise.

[beastee]

Your definition on winning a matchup is pure crap. So magic had a few more assists or rebounds here or there....Jordan killed him in about 3-4 of those matchups you said Magic won. We get it, you are trying to discredit the GOAT and raise up a Laker great...but your independent research is garbage.

[Sarcastic]

I don't get why you compared these two. Jordan is so far ahead, it is mind boggling.

Magic isn't even the best player ever for his own franchise.

The exact same thing can be said about Bird.

Magic is closer to being best for his franchise than Larry is.

[stalkerforlife]

The exact same thing can be said about Bird.

Magic is closer to being best for his franchise than Larry is.

No, Larry is the greatest Celtic of all time. He didn't play in a league with 8-10 teams that players had to get second jobs because the salaries were so low. Forget about international players, the talent pool was way too diminished.

[dankok8]

I don't get why you compared these two. Jordan is so far ahead, it is mind boggling.

Magic isn't even the best player ever for his own franchise.

Look at the stats... Plus Magic won 5 titles and 3 MVP's in a tougher era. Jordan wasn't clearly better until 1991.



Your definition on winning a matchup is pure crap. So magic had a few more assists or rebounds here or there....Jordan killed him in about 3-4 of those matchups you said Magic won. We get it, you are trying to discredit the GOAT and raise up a Laker great...but your independent research is garbage.

Like which ones?

[fpliii]

The exact same thing can be said about Bird.

Magic is closer to being best for his franchise than Larry is.
Just wondering about this line. Because you have the Russ>Kareem gap or Magic>Bird gap bigger?

[CavaliersFTW]

They rarely ever guarded each other so these aren't head-to-head stats as individuals, these are Magic Johnson vs Jordan-era Chicago Bulls and Michael Jordan vs Magic-era LA-Lakers stats

[beastee]

Like which ones?

Jordan: 39/2/4/1/3 (14/26, 11/11) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 25/2/11/0/0 (11/17, 3/5) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. - More assists yes, but Jordan was Elite this whole game.

Jordan: 41/10/3/1/1 (19/43, 3/4) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 30/2/9/0/0 (10/24, 10/10) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. One of Jordans biggest shot jacking games that years...and he still shot a better FG% than Magic and had a better overall stat line.

Jordan: 38/9/7/1/3 (17/34, 4/4) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/2/4/0/0 (2/5, 3/3) with 1 turnover

Bulls win. Magic played just 10 minutes -Not MJ's fault. He lit it up this game.

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash. A Wash? That is an elite statline by MJ.

[dankok8]

Jordan: 39/2/4/1/3 (14/26, 11/11) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 25/2/11/0/0 (11/17, 3/5) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. - More assists yes, but Jordan was Elite this whole game.

Jordan: 41/10/3/1/1 (19/43, 3/4) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 30/2/9/0/0 (10/24, 10/10) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. One of Jordans biggest shot jacking games that years...and he still shot a better FG% than Magic and had a better overall stat line.

Jordan: 38/9/7/1/3 (17/34, 4/4) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/2/4/0/0 (2/5, 3/3) with 1 turnover

Bulls win. Magic played just 10 minutes -Not MJ's fault. He lit it up this game.

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash. A Wash? That is an elite statline by MJ.

1st game...

Lakers won
Jordan has 14 more points, Magic 7 more assists
Jordan took 9 more shots

I don't see a clear edge for Jordan. Wash.

2nd game...

Lakers won
Jordan has 11 more points, Magic 6 more assists
Jordan took 19 more shots!

Wash. In fact I might lean to Magic slightly here.

3rd game...

Definitely Jordan. Never claimed it wasn't. Just pointed out that Magic played 10 min.

4th game...

Bulls won
Jordan has 9 more points, Magic 4 more assists
Jordan took 5 more shots

Again not much separating them. Wash.

[Psileas]

Jordan: 39/2/4/1/3 (14/26, 11/11) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 25/2/11/0/0 (11/17, 3/5) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. - More assists yes, but Jordan was Elite this whole game.

Jordan: 41/10/3/1/1 (19/43, 3/4) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 30/2/9/0/0 (10/24, 10/10) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash. One of Jordans biggest shot jacking games that years...and he still shot a better FG% than Magic and had a better overall stat line.

Jordan: 38/9/7/1/3 (17/34, 4/4) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/2/4/0/0 (2/5, 3/3) with 1 turnover

Bulls win. Magic played just 10 minutes -Not MJ's fault. He lit it up this game.

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash. A Wash? That is an elite statline by MJ.

1st game: 7 assists more by Magic, 14 point more by Jordan, better defensive stats by Jordan, better FG%'s by Magic. I see no "destruction" here.

2nd game: Unless your whole team has an off game, taking 43 shots on 44% in the 80's is more damaging to your team than taking 24 shots on 42%.

3rd game: Not Jordan's fault, but if you seriously try to compare his performance to some other superstar's who played 10 minutes, you're showing clear bias - reminds me of Kobe fans pretending that back on 12/17/1997, he erupted in the second half with Jordan guarding him and seriously compare their performances.

4th game: I'll give this to Jordan, but it's still a close matchup.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash. A Wash? That is an elite statline by MJ.
LOL, this one got me the most. Like seriously? 42/7/8 ... he had 11 more actual self created points, but 4 less assists and the game is given to Magic?

Makes no sense.

Anytime either of their offensive stats are relatively close, take into account defense and MJ is the default winner of the individual comparison.

[dankok8]

LOL, this one got me the most. Like seriously? 42/7/8 ... he had 11 more actual self created points, but 4 less assists and the game is given to Magic?

Makes no sense.

Anytime either of their offensive stats are relatively close, take into account defense and MJ is the default winner of the individual comparison.

I never gave it to Magic. I said wash.

Magic had better intangibles and made his teammates better than probably any player ever. That doesn't show up in the stats either.

[ArbitraryWater]

LOL, this one got me the most. Like seriously? 42/7/8 ... he had 11 more actual self created points, but 4 less assists and the game is given to Magic?

Makes no sense.

Anytime either of their offensive stats are relatively close, take into account defense and MJ is the default winner of the individual comparison.

So if we assist = 2 points, MJ has a 3 point gap with worse efficiency... but he did get to the line.

I'd say MJ but its close.

[mr4speed]

We already have Jordan-Bird and Magic-Bird. It's time for Jordan-Magic!!

'84-'85 Season

12/02/1984

Jordan: 20/2/3/1/1 (7/13, 6/8) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 12/7/16/0/2 (4/9, 4/5) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Magic wins match-up.

02/19/1985

Jordan: 16/6/8/0/0 (6/13, 4/5) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 20/3/12/0/0 (9/13, 2/4) with 4 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 18.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 5.5 apg, 0.5 bpg, 0.5 spg on 50.0 %FG/56.7 %TS with 3.5 topg
Magic: 16.0 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 14.0 apg, 0.0 bps, 1.0 spg on 59.1 %FG/61.6 %TS with 3.0 topg


'86-'87 Season

11/28/1986

Jordan: 41/10/3/1/1 (19/43, 3/4) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 30/2/9/0/0 (10/24, 10/10) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash.

02/20/1987

Jordan: 33/2/5/2/5 (11/27, 11/12) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 28/6/16/0/0 (12/20, 4/5) with 5 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 37.0 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, 1.5 bpg, 3.0 spg on 42.9 %FG/48.0 %TS with 2.5 topg
Magic: 29.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 12.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 50.0 %FG/57.3 %TS with 4.0 topg


'87-'88 Season

02/02/1988

Jordan: 39/2/4/1/3 (14/26, 11/11) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 25/2/11/0/0 (11/17, 3/5) with 3 turnovers

Lakers win. Wash.

03/10/1988

Jordan: 38/9/7/1/3 (17/34, 4/4) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/2/4/0/0 (2/5, 3/3) with 1 turnover

Bulls win. Magic played just 10 minutes.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 38.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.5 apg, 1.0 bpg, 3.0 spg on 51.7 %FG/57.8 %TS with 2.5 topg
Magic: 16.0 ppg, 2.0 rpg, 7.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 59.1 %FG/62.7 %TS with 2.0 topg


'88-'89 Season

12/20/1988

Jordan: 42/7/8/0/4 (11/23, 18/22) with 1 turnover
Magic: 31/4/12/0/3 (11/18, 9/9) with 2 turnovers

Bulls win. Wash.

03/21/1989

Jordan: 21/8/16/0/1 (7/20, 7/8) with 5 turnovers
Magic: 20/8/12/0/2 (7/13, 5/6) with 7 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 31.5 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 12.0 apg, 0.0 bpg, 2.5 spg on 41.9 %FG/56.0 %TS with 3.0 topg
Magic: 25.5 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 12.0 apg, 0.0 bpg, 2.5 spg on 58.1 %FG/67.8 %TS with 4.5 topg


'89-'90 Season

12/19/1989

Jordan: 37/7/5/1/2 (15/29, 5/5) with 7 turnovers
Magic: 18/12/10/0/4 (6/16, 5/6) with 3 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

02/07/1990

Jordan: 32/4/4/1/0 (12/21, 8/12) with 8 turnovers
Magic: 22/8/17/0/2 (7/14, 5/5) with 4 turnovers

Lakers win. Magic wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 34.5 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 4.5 apg, 1.0 bpg, 1.0 spg on 54.0 %FG/60.0 %TS with 7.5 topg
Magic: 20.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, 13.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 3.0 spg on 43.3 %FG/57.4 %TS with 3.5 topg


'90-'91 Season

12/21/1990

Jordan: 33/15/9/1/2 (14/30, 5/6) with 1 turnover
Magic: 18/9/14/0/0 (7/14, 0/1) with 5 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.

02/03/1991

Jordan: 23/7/9/1/6 (10/22, 3/3) with 2 turnovers
Magic: 7/7/11/0/0 (2/4, 1/1) with 5 turnovers

Lakers win. Jordan wins match-up.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 28.0 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 9.0 apg, 1.0 bpg, 4.0 spg on 46.2 %FG/50.0 %TS with 1.5 topg
Magic: 12.5 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.5 apg, 0.0 bpg, 0.0 spg on 50.0 %FG/66.2 %TS with 5.0 topg


'91 Finals

Game 1

Jordan: 36/8/12/0/3 (14/24, 7/9) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 19/10/11/0/2 (4/5, 9/10) with 5 turnovers

Stats look in Jordan's favour but Magic absolutely dominated this game late. When Jordan defended him Earvin badly abused him in the post. Bulls would switch Pippen on Magic starting from Game 2.

Lakers win.

Game 2

Jordan: 33/7/13/1/2 (15/18, 3/4) with 4 turnovers
Magic: 14/7/10/0/2 (4/13, 6/6) with 4 turnovers

Marvellous performance by Jordan.

Bulls win.

Game 3

Jordan: 29/9/9/2/4 (11/28, 6/6) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 22/6/10/0/2 (7/15, 8/9) with 5 turnovers

This one was a wash individually between the two superstars but Jordan iced the game with a jumper over Divac in OT.

Bulls win.

Game 4

Jordan: 28/5/13/2/0 (11/20, 6/6) with 1 turnover
Magic: 22/6/11/0/0 (6/13, 10/10) with 2 turnovers

Worthy and Scott exit the game with series-ending injuries. Bulls win but the individual battle is again close though slightly in MJ's favor.

Game 5

Jordan: 30/4/10/2/5 (12/23, 6/8) with 6 turnovers
Magic: 16/11/20/0/1 (4/12, 6/6) with 6 turnovers

Magic does a valiant job leading the undermanned Lakers team but the game gets away from them. Magic posts the third 20+ assist game in the Finals and to this day is the only player in history to record even one of them. Statistically he outplayed Jordan in this one.

Cumulative Stats

Jordan: 31.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 11.4 apg, 1.4 bpg, 2.8 spg on 55.8 %FG/50.0 %3P/61.2 %TS with 3.6 topg
Magic: 18.6 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 12.4 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.2 spg on 43.1 %FG/28.6 %3P/61.2 %TS with 4.4 topg

Jordan got the better of Magic in this series and Bulls won 4-1 but outside of Game 2, Magic played Jordan to close to a draw in the other four games. It was a valiant performance by the aging floor general who just didn't have the team behind him in this series.


'95-'96 Season

02/02/1996

Jordan: 17/7/7/0/1 (8/17, 1/1) with 3 turnovers
Magic: 15/3/3/0/1 (6/13, 1/2) with 3 turnovers

Bulls win. Jordan wins match-up.


Cumulative Season Stats

Jordan: 30.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.8 apg, 0.8 bpg, 2.4 spg on 47.5 %FG/28.6 %3P/54.1 %TS with 3.2 topg
Magic: 19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 11.3 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.1 spg on 52.2 %FG/43.3 %3P/61.0 %TS with 3.6 topg

Out of 13 games, Bulls won 7 and Lakers won 6.

Keep in mind that the 7-point game where Magic played just 10 minutes hurts his cumulative averages a fair bit. Until '90-'91 where he took over as the best player in the league, Jordan didn't get the better of Magic. Overall in the period from '87-'90 the two men played each other to a draw.

Interesting but I have to disagree with your definition of a "wash" game. There are 4 examples where I would have to favor Jordan. This is by no means a definitive measurement but consider the total of pts, reb & assists for the 11/28/86 game Jordan = 54, magic = 41. Then the 2/2/88 game Jordan = 45, magic =38. The 12/20/88 game Jordan = 57, magic =47. Then Game 3 was Jordan 47, magic 38. I cant see that as "wash" games, if anything those 4 I give the edge to Jordan

[beastee]

Interesting but I have to disagree with your definition of a "wash" game. There are 4 examples where I would have to favor Jordan. This is by no means a definitive measurement but consider the total of pts, reb & assists for the 11/28/86 game Jordan = 54, magic = 41. Then the 2/2/88 game Jordan = 45, magic =38. The 12/20/88 game Jordan = 57, magic =47. Then Game 3 was Jordan 47, magic 38. I cant see that as "wash" games, if anything those 4 I give the edge to Jordan

Yes. Me too. 4 games I gave the edge to MJ also. And as stated factor in the Elite defense and lesser teamates that Jordan played with from 84-90 and this has cemented how much better MJ was imo.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yes. Me too. 4 games I gave the edge to MJ also. And as stated factor in the Elite defense and lesser teamates that Jordan played with from 84-90 and this has cemented how much better MJ was imo.
Exactly. With same caliber teammates in 1991? MJ straight butt fuked Magic on National TV in the Finals. 31 ppg, 11 apg, and actually guarded Magic giving him trouble.

Never the opposite way around? Definitive statement on who was the superior basketball player. No arguments.

Magic wasn't even out of his prime. He was 31, coming off an MVP season, and runner up MVP that same season.

[mr4speed]

So if we assist = 2 points, MJ has a 3 point gap with worse efficiency... but he did get to the line.

I'd say MJ but its close.

Pardon my ignorance, but why would you ever give 2 points for an assist when the assist is 100% dependent on the player who scores the basket, scoring the basket? The game is measured by which team tallies the most points and a player that is a better scorer will prevail more so in this situation. The tally of assists is important and it can measure different things but ultimately the tally of points trumps this measurement. I have seen some statistics that actually give the assist <1 and give rebounds an edge over assists.

[dc_chilling]

Bird owned Jordan's soul.

Not Magic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svHk8Zntc5g

[Collie]

Cumulative Season Stats

Jordan: 30.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.8 apg, 0.8 bpg, 2.4 spg on 47.5 %FG/28.6 %3P/54.1 %TS with 3.2 topg
Magic: 19.5 ppg, 5.6 rpg, 11.3 apg, 0.0 bpg, 1.1 spg on 52.2 %FG/43.3 %3P/61.0 %TS with 3.6 topg

Out of 13 games, Bulls won 7 and Lakers won 6.

Keep in mind that the 7-point game where Magic played just 10 minutes hurts his cumulative averages a fair bit. Until '90-'91 where he took over as the best player in the league, Jordan didn't get the better of Magic. Overall in the period from '87-'90 the two men played each other to a draw.

Magic is a great player, one of the top 5 all time. Not surprising that he performed great. Heck, their H2H stats are very very close to their career averages.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would you ever give 2 points for an assist when the assist is 100% dependent on the player who scores the basket, scoring the basket? The game is measured by which team tallies the most points and a player that is a better scorer will prevail more so in this situation. The tally of assists is important and it can measure different things but ultimately the tally of points trumps this measurement. I have seen some statistics that actually give the assist <1 and give rebounds an edge over assists.
:applause:

[Pointguard]

Exactly. With same caliber teammates in 1991? MJ straight butt fuked Magic on National TV in the Finals. 31 ppg, 11 apg, and actually guarded Magic giving him trouble.
Both Worthy and Scott were nowhere near as good as Pippen and Grant. You cry about it one way and then get over excited when its the other way.


Magic wasn't even out of his prime. He was 31, coming off an MVP season, and runner up MVP that same season.
Magic didn't play as good that year. While I'm skeptical if Magic's HIV was a correct diagnosis, he had to have some signs of it around this time if he did have it. With that said I thought Jordan was a better player that year. Magic was the best offensive team player ever - yes better than Jordan. He was literally connected to his teammates. That concept seems totally lost on so many people. Jordan was the best offensive player I ever seen. But he wasn't a fully accomplished team player. For more recent fans, Kidd could dominate a game without scoring. Later in the second three peat, he was smart enough to but it wasn't in his steady game.

[Sarcastic]

Just wondering about this line. Because you have the Russ>Kareem gap or Magic>Bird gap bigger?

The greatest Laker of all time is definitely up for debate. Magic, Kobe, and Kareem all can lay a legitimate claim.

The greatest Celtic of all time is very clear cut. It's Russell, and there is no debate.

[G.O.A.T]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would you ever give 2 points for an assist when the assist is 100% dependent on the player who scores the basket, scoring the basket? The game is measured by which team tallies the most points and a player that is a better scorer will prevail more so in this situation. The tally of assists is important and it can measure different things but ultimately the tally of points trumps this measurement. I have seen some statistics that actually give the assist <1 and give rebounds an edge over assists.

I'm not into assigning points of value based on stats that way specifically, but I would offer this.

One might assign two points to an assist despite it's dependence on a made field goal by another player for the same reason one would assign two points to an open lay-up off a creative pass from another player.

All things in basketball are dependent on the balance or disruption of that balance between the ten players on the floor. A player can impact this balance by an individual scoring move, setting up and open lay-up or jump shot, stealing an offensive rebound for a put back, block a shot and starting a fast break, deflecting a pass leading to a steal, and so on etc.

Some assists lead to wide open three point attempts, those might be worth three "real" points as much as the guy who made the shot. It can be argued that more players in the NBA can make an open three than can create an open three for a team mate off the dribble in the half court.

A good and fair question though, just my thoughts.

[fpliii]

I'm not into assigning points of value based on stats that way specifically, but I would offer this.

One might assign two points to an assist despite it's dependence on a made field goal by another player for the same reason one would assign two points to an open lay-up off a creative pass from another player.

All things in basketball are dependent on the balance or disruption of that balance between the ten players on the floor. A player can impact this balance by an individual scoring move, setting up and open lay-up or jump shot, stealing an offensive rebound for a put back, block a shot and starting a fast break, deflecting a pass leading to a steal, and so on etc.

Some assists lead to wide open three point attempts, those might be worth three "real" points as much as the guy who made the shot. It can be argued that more players in the NBA can make an open three than can create an open three for a team mate off the dribble in the half court.

A good and fair question though, just my thoughts.
Long time no see! The board is a better place when you're posting my good man.

[Pointguard]

I'm not into assigning points of value based on stats that way specifically, but I would offer this.

One might assign two points to an assist despite it's dependence on a made field goal by another player for the same reason one would assign two points to an open lay-up off a creative pass from another player.

All things in basketball are dependent on the balance or disruption of that balance between the ten players on the floor. A player can impact this balance by an individual scoring move, setting up and open lay-up or jump shot, stealing an offensive rebound for a put back, block a shot and starting a fast break, deflecting a pass leading to a steal, and so on etc.

Some assists lead to wide open three point attempts, those might be worth three "real" points as much as the guy who made the shot. It can be argued that more players in the NBA can make an open three than can create an open three for a team mate off the dribble in the half court.

A good and fair question though, just my thoughts.
Wow GOAT, is the book done?

I agree with this post. Magic made easy baskets for his players unlike any player ever. He got the ball when and where the teammate was most comfortable and excited to get it. Magic could feature a player much better than any other player as well. He could feed the post and was great at getting another players defender off balance.

[dankok8]

Same caliber of teammates in 1991? Maybe if you only look at the offensive side of the ball and ignore injuries. Worthy played injured in the entire series (he got hurt in the WCF) and Scott got hurt in Game 4 and DNP after that. To call the talent even is ridiculous. Bulls were the stronger team.

Secondly MJ didn't have success defending Magic who abused him in the post in Game 1. From Game 2 onwards Pippen took the assignment and made it much tougher for Magic.

As for Magic himself he was on a decline, playing well below the level from '87-'90. In the previous couple of postseasons he was totally unstoppable.

Anyways apart from Game 2 the Jordan - Magic battle was rather close in the 1991 Finals.

[Dragonyeuw]

Not sure what your definition of wash is, but some of those statlines where you said wash, Jordan had more points,rebounds, steals, and blocks, with Magic having more assists which is a product of his position, style of game and having more offensive options. How is it a wash?

Also, lol at comparing 85 Jordan and Magic while completely ignoring that this would be rookie Jordan and prime Magic at that stage of their careers.

[Psileas]

Not sure what your definition of wash is, but some of those statlines where you said wash, Jordan had more points,rebounds, steals, and blocks, with Magic having more assists which is a product of his position, style of game and having more offensive options. How is it a wash?

Same can be said for scoring, favoring Jordan this time.


Also, lol at comparing 85 Jordan and Magic while completely ignoring that this would be rookie Jordan and prime Magic at that stage of their careers.

'85 Magic is early prime Magic, not as great as he became in the late 80's.
Was rookie Jordan some bench warmer, like 18 y.o Kobe? Obviously not, he was ROY, All-Star, all-NBA 2nd teammer, 3rd leading scorer in the league. No elite rookie is ever excluded from head to head comparisons against more experienced players, why should Jordan?

[Dragonyeuw]

1)Same can be said for scoring, favoring Jordan this time.

2)'85 Magic is early prime Magic, not as great as he became in the late 80's.
Was rookie Jordan some bench warmer, like 18 y.o Kobe? Obviously not, he was ROY, All-Star, all-NBA 2nd teammer, 3rd leading scorer in the league. No elite rookie is ever excluded from head to head comparisons against more experienced players, why should Jordan?

1) He also had more rebounds in many of the games, and more steals/blocks, indicating impact on both ends of the floor. Still not a wash.

2) That's actually an argument in Jordan's favor, if even as a rookie he was matching or exceeding prime Magic's output. Not sure if that fitted in with your argument, because it didn't fit in with what the OP is saying.