Who's the GOAT if MJ didn't exist?

[Derivative]

Who would be GOAT if MJ never existed?

Before MJ's reign the media was calling Magic as the best player of all time, Bird also had a share of his GOAT talk.

[Milbuck]

Kareem.

[Asukal]

Russell

[L8kersfan222]

Craig "Cupcake" Ehlo

[Mr. Jabbar]

<-----

[Smook A.]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Kareem is always #2 on my all-time list. He is such an accomplished player. He has 19 All-Star appearances, 6 rings, 2 Finals MVPs (could've have had 3), 6 MVPs and has the most points in league history. He was a complete player, with 11 All-Defensive team selections to his name. He was also a 19 time all star and had a total of 15 All-NBA team selections. Kareem is also one of the best passing centers ever, having averaged 5 or more assists per game in 3 seasons. He was also a prolific rebounder and shot-blocker. Kareem would dominate in any era thanks to his great scoring and his unstoppable go-to move, aka the Sky Hook.

[Warfan]

Kareem
One of the best prime/peaks ever, still dominated the league in his late 30's, has the most unstoppable shot in the history of the game and is an extremely accomplished player.

[Sarcastic]

Wilt. Before Jordan, the emphasis on rings was far less severe. Individual achievement mattered much more, which is why Oscar was also always in the running for GOAT talk. Jordan pretty much changed the entire idea of what the GOAT player's career should look like.

[Rodmantheman]

<-----

if Jordan didn't exists who would kobe copy his game off of?

[bigkingsfan]

Harold Miner

[Meticode]

I don't know, but I do know Malone and Stockton would've moved up considerably in the rankings.

I wonder what would've happened if the Sonics won. Who knows what Payton and Kemp would do.

[buddha]

Kareem. Stats, longevity, championships and didn't play in an 8 team league.

[Smook A.]

Harold Miner
Baby Jordan

https://images.encyclopediadramatica.es/thumb/d/d9/TheshitisgoindownB.JPG/180px-TheshitisgoindownB.JPG

[Mr. Jabbar]

if Jordan didn't exists who would kobe copy his game off of?

i was pointing at my user name, guess its confusing since kirby is in my avatar and he has a case too :bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kareem or Russell. These guys were just as "great" for what they accomplished in their respective eras.

[Fawker]

Magic

[Ne 1]

The true GOAT: http://i59.tinypic.com/14m500y.jpg

[Smook A.]

The true GOAT: http://www.popularsmokers.com/albums/michael-jordan/tumblr_l18u7bYOpS1qzn5i6.jpg
Yeah bruh

[the mesiah]

the guy from east Lansing,mich..creator of showtime.revolutionized the game and brought it from the dead of the 70's era .put the 80's team on his back and was the batman to everyone else's robin on the 80's squad.

[scandisk_]

Kareem easy, for me though.

stats, accolades, rings, intangibles and longevity

The friggin' perfect candidate right there. :bowdown:

[Soundwave]

Kareem or Magic.

[Psileas]

I'm not going to talk about others' opinions, although I suspect that Magic-Bird would be way more widely considered the GOAT, more so than if you just removed Jordan from the equation and counted the other votes: For me, if Jordan didn't exist, there would just be 1 less GOAT candidate, meaning that Wilt, Russell and Kareem would have strong GOAT arguments, as they already do anyway.

[G.O.A.T]

I nthink it becomes pretty wide open without MJ. First I think Magic gets at least one more ring without Jordan. I think Magic, Russell, Kareem and Tim Duncan would have the best cases. Wilt and Bird and Shaq would be in the discussion too. You'd have to listen to arguments for Kobe and LeBron as well probably.

[GimmeThat]

Magic

yup.

it's tough for someone to justify anyone besides Magic if they truly believe that MJ is the GOAT.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Who is the Goat if Wilt and LeBron didnt exist?:biggums: :coleman:

[lakers_forever]

Magic. He would have won in 1991 and retired prematuly in 92 with 6 titles and 4 mvp's under his belt. And people would claim he would have many more if not for HIV.

Malone would have 2 titles and would be on everyone top 10 and ahead of Olajuwon.


Magic
Russell
Kareem
Wilt
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Lebron
Malone

[lakers_forever]

And without MJ, many would claim Kobe or Lebron as GOAT.

[Harison]

Fans would be much more divided who is the GOAT.

40% say its Russell, 40% its Kareem, 10% its Wilt, and 10% someone else.

Or something like that :cheers:

[GimmeThat]

And without MJ, many would claim Kobe or Lebron as GOAT.

I think I could make a legitimate argument for Shaq even before those two.

I guess Lebron may be able to surpass Larry Legend.

[La Frescobaldi]

Chamberlain, Jabbar, Jordan. 3 greatest I ever saw, they are in their own unique Hall of Fame.

Then there's everybody else, some place else......

[GODbe]

Question doesn't make sense:confusedshrug: . Kobe'd still be the GOAT whether he exists or not.

[Prometheus]

Question doesn't make sense:confusedshrug: . Kobe'd still be the GOAT whether he exists or not.

shut up ******

[Cold soul]

It has to be Kareem.

[pauk]

Bill Russell and if the majority of modern era guys werent that ignorant about the 60s era Russell is actually the GOAT right now as we speak.... by very far actually... if not accolades, but talent/productions/domination etc. then you go with Wilt Chamberlain as the GOAT....

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kareem.

[Rameek]

Probably Magic, Kareem, then Oscar, Russell.

[Aidz]

It depends. With no Mike, I can see Hakeem winning 8 championships.

GOAT is still Kareem. But Hakeem might be second.

[OldSchoolBBall]

It depends. With no Mike, I can see Hakeem winning 8 championships.

Huh? No. Hakeem didn't even make the finals any years besides the two years he won (EDIT: in the '90-'98 span, that is; he made it in '86 too). How does no Jordan have anything to do with them beating teams they actually lost to in '90-'93 and '96-'98?

[jzek]

KAJ

[La Frescobaldi]

Question doesn't make sense:confusedshrug: . Kobe'd still be the GOAT whether he exists or not.


shut up ******

shut up ******
shut up ******
shut up ******

shut up ******
Prometheus speaking in quintuples of fact

[La Frescobaldi]

Huh? No. Hakeem didn't even make the finals any years besides the two years he won (EDIT: in the '90-'98 span, that is; he made it in '86 too). How does no Jordan have anything to do with them beating teams they actually lost to in '90-'93 and '96-'98?

zackly. dude is massively overrated by Ish

[FKAri]

Kareem is the quick answer but Jordan not existing means the legacies of many 90s players would look quite different; especially Malone.

Also someone like Kobe Bryant might look better since he would look far more original. On the other hand would a player like Kobe be worse since he didn't have MJ to build his game on.

[Kukoc]

Then it would be Kareem


His ring with the Bucks is huge for his legacy

[J Shuttlesworth]

Question doesn't make sense:confusedshrug: . Kobe'd still be the GOAT whether he exists or not.
Who would Kobe steal his game from if MJ didnt exist?

[hangintheair]

Karl Malone

[Cousin Oliver]

It's an interesting idea for a question but it is difficult to answer. A key could be who would have won the Championship in 90-91?

Let's assume the Finals is Pistons vs Lakers.

Do the Pistons three-peat?


Does Magic get number 6?


If Magic gets a 6th ring that gives him twice as many as Bird and as many as Kareem.


You also have to assume the Jazz would have won a couple of rings which adds to Malone's Legacy. No one would call him the GOAT but that might move him into the top 10 for some people.

[JellyBean]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

[CavaliersFTW]

MJ's existence doesn't have any effect on who the GOAT is. It's always been Wilt if you favor individual dominance, Russell if you favor an individuals effect on team dominance, or Kareem if you favor a blend of the two.

MJ has a case as the greatest guard though.

:D

[mr4speed]

MJ's existence doesn't have any effect on who the GOAT is. It's always been Wilt if you favor individual dominance, Russell if you favor an individuals effect on team dominance, or Kareem if you favor a blend of the two.

MJ has a case as the greatest guard though.



:D

Great answer. What never gets talked about is what is the criteria or the measuring stick to determine GOAT? I think you have to answer by position played such as Center = Wilt, then Kareem. Power forward= Karl Malone, then Duncan. Small forward = Bird, then Elgin Baylor. Shooting guard = Jordan, then Jerry West. Point Guard = Oscar, then Magic. That's just my opinion and I throw out ring counting because it is too interrelated to team success, teammates etc. Just looking at skill set and peak play.

[G.O.A.T]

You also have to assume the Jazz would have won a couple of rings which adds to Malone's Legacy. No one would call him the GOAT but that might move him into the top 10 for some people.


Are we safe assuming that the Jazz beat the Heat and the Pacers?

I'll take the Pacers I think in 1998. They played the Bulls tougher and I think they were better equipped to close games than were the Jazz. Every game in that series would likely go down to the wire. Over a series the Pacers depth would be enough to alleviate the fact that Malone typically gave them fits, but he alone was not going to carry them in the Finals. Miller is too tall for Stockton or Hornacek and putting Anderson or Russell on him for major minutes takes away from an already limited offense. Not that I can't see the Jazz beating them, but I'll take the Pacers.

[jlip]

.

G.O.A.T. is back. :rockon:

[jaybee682]

Kareem would be the GOAT. You can almost say he is now though. A player I think that would move up a lot would be Dominique Wilkins. A lot more younger players would have copied him, without Jordan stealing his shine.

[dunksby]

I already have Kareem over Jordan.