Penny Hardaway, Grant Hill, Tracy Mcgrady

[klee]

You're a GM with the first pick of the 2015 draft. 20 year old Penny/Grant/TMac are in the draft. For the sake of discussion, assume that you're guaranteed that none of them will ever get injured for the rest of their careers.

Who you got 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, and why? Or is it conditional on what your team's needs are? How close is it?

[russwest0]

Easy.

1. Grant Hill
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Penny Hardaway

[HylianNightmare]

TmaC
Hill
Penny

[QuebecBaller]

Hill
Penny
T-Mac

[Milbuck]

T-Mac
Hill
Penny

[Rubio2Gasol]

Ignoring the 20 year old thing, (two guys were in college, one in Toronto)

1. T-Mac
2. Grant
3. Penny.

[moe94]

T-Mac
Hill
Penny

[NumberSix]

1. Penny
2. Grant
3. T-Mac

[Pushxx]

Easy for me:

1. Grant Hill
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Penny Hardaway

All three would be amazing, though.

[JellyBean]

I got

1. Grant Hill: The college element helps here. G-Money brings ball handling, defense, shooting, passing, and a rebounding. Complete game. Team First mindset. High basketball IQ

2. Penny Hardaway: I would pick Penny here. Team first mindset, ball handling, passing, and leadership.

3. Tracy McGrady: Great scoring talent, ball handling, solid passer,solid work ethic and solid BBall IQ.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

McGrady
Hill
Penny

McGrady because TMac.

Hill and Penny are practically even for me.

[Aussie Dunker]

I think Grant Hill was the best player of the 3 (Prime T-Mac was close for about 2 seasons) - and I also think he gives your team the best chance to win / best locker room mentor / sell out arenas...

Hill
T-Mac
Penny

[Black and White]

T-Mac
Hill
Penny

[the mesiah]

1.penny-
2-tracy
3-hill

[BigMacAttack]

I got

1. Grant Hill: The college element helps here. G-Money brings ball handling, defense, shooting, passing, and a rebounding. Complete game. Team First mindset. High basketball IQ

2. Penny Hardaway: I would pick Penny here. Team first mindset, ball handling, passing, and leadership.

3. Tracy McGrady: Great scoring talent, ball handling, solid passer,solid work ethic and solid BBall IQ.

Dude Tmacs vision and passing ability were a lot better then solid, of the current SFs in the league only Lebron has better passing and vision than Tmac.

I Got Tmac first cause he's my boy then Penny, Hill - I didnt see Penny or Hill in their primes really so im not a great judge of them.

[Pushxx]

Dude Tmacs vision and passing ability were a lot better then solid, of the current SFs in the league only Lebron has better passing and vision than Tmac.

I Got Tmac first cause he's my boy then Penny, Hill - I didnt see Penny or Hill in their primes really so im not a great judge of them.

Hill was on track to be an all-time great before injuries wrecked him. His skill, IQ, and versatility were still there, but his body wasn't after the countless injuries.

It's a shame people didn't get a chance to see healthy Hill. When I say all-time great I'm talking top 25 player of all-time.

[TheReal Kendall]

I gotta go with:

Hill
Penny
Tmac

[Draz]

I won't answer the other 2, but I'd definitely pick tmac first.

[Smoke117]

Grant Hill
Penny Hardaway
Tracy Mcgrady

[BigMacAttack]

Hill was on track to be an all-time great before injuries wrecked him. His skill, IQ, and versatility were still there, but his body wasn't after the countless injuries.

It's a shame people didn't get a chance to see healthy Hill. When I say all-time great I'm talking top 25 player of all-time.

Yeah ive done my research on youtube etc but it isnt the same as just watching games.

All three of these dudes had top ten all time talent from what i've seen.

[Rameek]

This is quite an interesting conundrum.

I would take Hill only because of his leadership and maturity truly a franchise player, then TMac for upside, then Penny.

[bizil]

Wow this is a tough one. I mean after MJ and Drexler, these guys along with Kobe were the next in line for that 6'6 to 6'8 freak athlete, epic all around, alpha dog scoring kind of player on the perimeter. Even to this day, u can't NAME ten of those kind of players:

MJ
Drexler
Penny
Hill
Kobe
T-Mac
Lebron

So as u can see, these kind of players are rarified air. If I was picking first, I think I would take Hill narrowly over all three. Second I would take T-Mac, the best scorer of the bunch. And then Penny who is the best passer. But Hill's the best defender and rebounder. I think his edges in rebounding and defense is MORE SUBSTANTIAL than the other guys edges over him. I viewed Hill as a guy who was a mix of Dr. J and Pippen. Kind of the precursor to LeBron who took that blueprint to the ultimate at 6'8 and 250-260 pounds. But frankly, u could argue all three going first. But I will tell u what, I would have loved to see Penny at PG, T-Mac at SG, and Hill at SF on an Olympic team or in an All Star Game! I think all three peak wise were among the top 10 players ever at their respective positions. T-Mac and Hill in Orlando would have been EPIC if it wasn't for injuries!

[Aussie Dunker]

Add Vince Carter to that list ^^ He was another crowned baby Jordan, maybe more so than anyone else, at one point of his career...

[TheCorporation]

Easy.

1. Grant Hill
2. Tracy McGrady
3. Penny Hardaway

This :applause:

[TheCorporation]

Hard to pass up Grant Henry Hill's 6-consecutive seasons of 20ppg or more, with his 6 year average with Detroit totaling 22-8-6 (prior to his injury). This also includes his rookie year where he put up: 20-5-6 on 48% (one of only 4 rookies that have achieved this, the other three being Tyreke Evans, LBJ, and Jordan) and hard to ignore Grant Hill's peak at 26-7-5 on 49% FG and 35% 3P.

[miles berg]

No doubt:

Grant Hill
TMac
Penny

[ImKobe]

1. Grant Hill
2. Penny Hardaway
3. Tracy McGrady


Grant & Penny came into the league at a much older age than T-Mac, who took quite some years to develop. Based off of talent alone, Grant had the highest ceiling because he was an elite rebounder, passer and an elite scorer. (20/10/7 per game in his 2nd season), Penny was also a very gifted scorer, passer and a good rebounder for his size. T-Mac obviously was more gifted as a scorer, as an all-around player I wouldn't put him above the other two when it comes to the whole package.

[bizil]

Usually when comparing players who are alpha dog quality like these three, the difference in all around game or versatility is the tie breaker. All three were EPIC versatile all around players. But G Hill's rebounding and defense set him apart in my book. Grant could play and defend PG, SG, SF, and PF and was a Mr. Triple Double kind of guy. T-Mac's and Penny's versatility was more PG, SG, and SF with dominant scoring and passing as a package.

It's kind of similar in some ways to comparing Lebron to Kobe. In that case, it was Bron's size and versatility that makes the difference when comparing them. Kobe is the better scorer, better defender, and is a great passer. But Bron being able to play and defend 4 and at times 5 positions gives him an edge that can't be taught. If Bird and Magic had the defense or close to the athletic ability as Bron, then i think those two would be seen more universally as better than MJ. Even though some people my prefer Bird and Magic over MJ in general anyway. Bron showed us what guys like Bird and Magic would be with freak athletic ability.

[GimmeThat]

If I'm the owner, I take McGrady first

If I'm the coach, I take Grant Hill first


If I'm the GM, I just don't want to be fired.

[plowking]

Who in their right mind would take Hill over Penny? They played during the same era and Penny was the better player, and the one making all NBA first teams from the start of his career. Not to mention he shat all over Hill as far as a defender. Hill was piss poor on the defensive side for more than half his career.

[AintNoSunshine]

Grant Hill:rockon: Lebron lite with more grace

[That_Admiral]

Grant Hill
Tmac
Penny

[TheMarkMadsen]

Penny without hesitation

[Lebron23]

Penny Hardaway

[Reggie43]

1) Grant Hill
2) Penny/Tracy

[TheMarkMadsen]

Most people obviously are sleeping on penny

Dude was the 2nd best guard in the league his 2nd year in the league

[havoc33]

I'm inclined to say Penny. I'm old enough to remember seeing Penny give both MJ and Pippen fits in their head to head matchups. Penny many times outplayed Jordan, and normally Jordan would just come back and annihilate you, but Penny always stood his ground. He was basically unguardable due to his smooth handle and great post game. And a fantastic playmaker obviously.

[artificial]

Semi related, watch the following Grant Hill play. Lemme describe it...

- First Grant Hill gets tangled up with Zo, and somehow smashes one of the strongest centers of his time to the ground.
- Then he gets up and doesn't takes a single step back at a fired up Zo. Most people would shit bricks at this point.
- Finally, he summarizes his thoughts on that tangling incident by obliterating with a nasty dunk one of the best shot blockers at the time.

Hill when feeling like sending a message. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGmULtF91Y8#t=2m46s)

And back to the topic, personally:
1. Hill
2. Tmac
3. Penny

Can't go wrong with any of them though. Any of them could do anything on the court, at any given time.

[JohnnySic]

Anyone who doesn't take Hill first, smh..

You can argue T-Mac vs Penny; I give the edge to T-Mac.

[tmacattack33]

Gauranteed no injuries?

1. T-mac
2. Penny Hardaway
3. Grant Hill



Peak Penny was already as good as Grant Hill ever got, and Grant Hill got to play until age 27 or so without an injury. We only saw Penny play injury-free until age 23.

Peak T-mac in Orlando was above both of them, due to better scoring ability. But it's not a landslide or anything.

[tmacattack33]

Grant Hill may be overrated due to people who only saw him from 2008 and onwards in his "second career", because his defense then was actually better than it was when he was younger and in his peak.

At his peak his defense in the 90's, his defense was nothing special at all.

[Jailblazers7]

I'd probably go:

1. Penny
2. Grant
3. T-Mac

I think Penny is the easiest to build a winning franchise around. Can play both guard spots, gives you a great passer/scorer to play through in the post, and he can guard his position. He was really unselfish and really could have been the #1 guy on great teams if injuries didn't **** him.

[greymatter]

Seeing anyone pick Grant Hill over Penny confirms for me that none of these idiots saw them play before they both got injured.

Hill's offensive game reminds me of a more limited version of Dwade's. Very good mid range game and scoring in the paint. Nothing to speak of outside of 20ft. Yeah, he was a 21/7/7 type of guy as #1 option, but his teams generally sucked.

Penny as #1 option in the short time Shaq was out with a broken thumb was being called the 2nd best guard in the game behind Jordan. He led a Shaqless Magic team to a 17-5 record to start the 95-96 season while arguably playing better than everyone not named Michael Jordan.

Anyone who was old enough to have watched the 2 play before injuries stole their primes would tell you that Penny was the real deal and that Hill was overrated.

TMac was definitely the most talented of the three, but he was a quitter. He quit on his Orlando team. Demanded to be traded instead of waiting to see if Dwight Howard would develop (yeah...dumbass). He eventually wore out his welcome and pissed off his coach on his Rockets team.

Penny clearly had the most success leading his team as the #1 guy. Tmac had atitude problems. These problems might not have manifested so long as he was healthy and his team was winning. If his team was losing, then he was a known quitter. The trainers for the Magic are on record for saying that TMac asked them to manufacture excuses for him to sit out games because he was already wanting out (his final season where Orlando was horrible and landed D12 in the draft). Hill was simply inferior to both in terms of talent and killer instinct.

1. Penny
2. Tmac
3. Hill

[greymatter]

Wow this is a tough one. I mean after MJ and Drexler, these guys along with Kobe were the next in line for that 6'6 to 6'8 freak athlete, epic all around, alpha dog scoring kind of player on the perimeter. Even to this day, u can't NAME ten of those kind of players:

MJ
Drexler
Penny
Hill
Kobe
T-Mac
Lebron

So as u can see, these kind of players are rarified air. If I was picking first, I think I would take Hill narrowly over all three. Second I would take T-Mac, the best scorer of the bunch. And then Penny who is the best passer. But Hill's the best defender and rebounder. I think his edges in rebounding and defense is MORE SUBSTANTIAL than the other guys edges over him. I viewed Hill as a guy who was a mix of Dr. J and Pippen. Kind of the precursor to LeBron who took that blueprint to the ultimate at 6'8 and 250-260 pounds. But frankly, u could argue all three going first. But I will tell u what, I would have loved to see Penny at PG, T-Mac at SG, and Hill at SF on an Olympic team or in an All Star Game! I think all three peak wise were among the top 10 players ever at their respective positions. T-Mac and Hill in Orlando would have been EPIC if it wasn't for injuries!

Hill is criminally overrated. He was the most "mature" of the three, but that didn't translate into shitting on his competition on the floor. Yeah he was arguably the best passer/rebounder of the three, but his offensive game was the easiest of the three to shut down, especially against playoff defenses.

[tmacattack33]

Hill was on track to be an all-time great before injuries wrecked him. His skill, IQ, and versatility were still there, but his body wasn't after the countless injuries.

It's a shame people didn't get a chance to see healthy Hill. When I say all-time great I'm talking top 25 player of all-time.

Hill got to age 28 before any major injuries. So it's safe to say we saw the best of what he had to offer or very close to it.

Penny and T-mac got injured at around age 23.

[JohnnySic]

Seeing anyone pick Grant Hill over Penny confirms for me that none of these idiots saw them play before they both got injured.

Hill's offensive game reminds me of a more limited version of Dwade's. Very good mid range game and scoring in the paint. Nothing to speak of outside of 20ft. Yeah, he was a 21/7/7 type of guy as #1 option, but his teams generally sucked.

Penny as #1 option in the short time Shaq was out with a broken thumb was being called the 2nd best guard in the game behind Jordan. He led a Shaqless Magic team to a 17-5 record to start the 95-96 season while arguably playing better than everyone not named Michael Jordan.

Anyone who was old enough to have watched the 2 play before injuries stole their primes would tell you that Penny was the real deal and that Hill was overrated.

TMac was definitely the most talented of the three, but he was a quitter. He quit on his Orlando team. Demanded to be traded instead of waiting to see if Dwight Howard would develop (yeah...dumbass). He eventually wore out his welcome and pissed off his coach on his Rockets team.

Penny clearly had the most success leading his team as the #1 guy. Tmac had atitude problems. These problems might not have manifested so long as he was healthy and his team was winning. If his team was losing, then he was a known quitter. The trainers for the Magic are on record for saying that TMac asked them to manufacture excuses for him to sit out games because he was already wanting out (his final season where Orlando was horrible and landed D12 in the draft). Hill was simply inferior to both in terms of talent and killer instinct.

1. Penny
2. Tmac
3. Hill
I'm well old enough.

Hill was considerebly better than Penny. Its not close really.

Hill was sneak peak at LeBron James, and early (obviously less good) prototype. Great size, rebounding, well rounded offensive game, passing, etc.

Penny was a glorified, slightly better Brandon Roy. People put him on Kobe/LeBron level, which is laughable. Perhaps the most overrated player of my lifetime (its him or Dennis Rodman, players that for some reason are "better" when some judge them in hindsight.)

[Assassin85]

Im picking the dude with the surefire jumpshot all the way out to the three pt line.

TMAC...

[houston]

All three of them were soft players but out the 3 easily Tracy Mcgrady. He the only one with true first option talent.

[Droid101]

Grant Hill was LeBron before LeBron. He was going to be an all time great if he never got hurt. 20/10/7 in his second season. He had a 26/7/5 season. A 21/9/7.3 season. He was insane.

[bizil]

Hill is criminally overrated. He was the most "mature" of the three, but that didn't translate into shitting on his competition on the floor. Yeah he was arguably the best passer/rebounder of the three, but his offensive game was the easiest of the three to shut down, especially against playoff defenses.

For starters, Penny was the best passer of the three, and not Hill. But all three of these guys were great passers capable of playing the PG spot. And u say Hill's game was the easiest to shut down. But Hill STILL qualified as an alpha dog level scorer. It's like saying Lebron is easier to shut down than guys with better scoring skillsets like Kobe, Durant, and Melo. But Bron STILL is one of the top 5 scorers in the world. AND the best player of the bunch. So I view Hill in comparison to T-Mac and Penny to be a similar situation. As I said earlier, u could argue all three as the best.

[greymatter]

I'm well old enough.

Hill was considerebly better than Penny. Its not close really.

Hill was sneak peak at LeBron James, and early (obviously less good) prototype. Great size, rebounding, well rounded offensive game, passing, etc.

Penny was a glorified, slightly better Brandon Roy. People put him on Kobe/LeBron level, which is laughable. Perhaps the most overrated player of my lifetime (its him or Dennis Rodman, players that for some reason are "better" when some judge them in hindsight.)

Well, obviously you don't know wtf you're talking about if you think Hill was "considerably better". An extra 2 rpgs a game really separates him. Penny was also a good all around player. Obviously he wasn't a Lebron level player, but his true ceiling would never be known. All we have is a glimpse of a 22 game stretch to go on when he was the man. Solely based on that, yoy could say he's clearly above Hill, but clearly a tier below prime Wade and Kobe.

No one knows what his peak might have been bc he was done after his 3rd season. Hill got to play 6 before his ankles got messed up. His finished product wasn't even close to 95/96 22 game stretch Penny.

[moe94]

Most people obviously are sleeping on penny

Dude was the 2nd best guard in the league his 2nd year in the league

Penny is the most overrated of the 3.

[jaybee682]

TMAC
TMAC
TMAC

If not for the injuries Mcgrady had the potential to be Top 10 NBA All-Time Talent.

[TheReal Kendall]

TMAC
TMAC
TMAC

If not for the injuries Mcgrady had the potential to be Top 10 NBA All-Time Talent.

:coleman: Same could be said for all 3 players bro

[Relinquish]

Without a doubt:

McGrady


Hill
Penny

[jaybee682]

:coleman: Same could be said for all 3 players bro

Hill and Penny could not take over a game like Mcgrady. One of the most versatile scores in NBA history. Attack the rim, bring the ball up the court and pull up for the 3. He also had a very good post game. His defense was better to, when he actually wanted to play defense.

[bizil]

On the offensive side of the rock skill for skill, I think T-Mac is in the top 4-5 players EVER PEAK VALUE WISE! I know that's saying a lot, but when u factor in his great passing, handles, midrange, postup, and slashing game along with his very good at times great 3ball shooting, it's an offensive package second to none. He was literally great or close to it in virtually every offensive catergory there is. And on top of it he's a 6'8 to 6'9 freak athlete who ALWAYS had the size advantage when he played SG. Impossible cover when he was at his peak!