Why can't a player stick with 1 team through thick and thin?

[Fawker]

these guys quit at the first moment of freedom when their team is just not getting over the hump.

[Marchesk]

Serious question though. Would you want to stay in Cleveland?

[sick_brah07]

because it cost them potential superstardom and money down the track

say for example Kenny Smith is now on nba tv all the damn time while mitch Richmond is pretty much a "who is that again?" for your average fan

winning championships makes YOU relevant

very very small amount of players become stars and are remembered if they don't win

although it would be nice to see some loyalty and obviously as a fan of the Orlando magic i would love to see it there lol but reality is the NBA is a business first

[Cocaine80s]

You acting like you wouldnt leave your company for a one that has better benefits/co workers :coleman:

[Fawker]

You can always showcase your greatness in troubled seasons but it counts more when winning through loyalty and patience vs. intimidation and flat out bolting and using your talent as a puppeteer of the league.

[J Shuttlesworth]

You know I bet if LeBron stayed in Cleveland, haters would be saying he's a coward who doesn't have the balls to leave a shitty organization

[NumberSix]

Would op stay at a failing business when every other business in town would be willing to give their left nut to hire him at any price he would chose for himself?

[navy]

You can always showcase your greatness in troubled seasons but it counts more when winning through loyalty and patience vs. intimidation and flat out bolting and using your talent as a puppeteer of the league.
Maybe on forums.

Winning is winning everywhere else.

[Fawker]

there was a hefty amount of time when kobe won his previous ring and dominated the league before winning another 7 years later. that took patience and legacy know-how.

[stalkerforlife]

Well son, ask your grandpa about the good ol' days.

We're in a dark hour right now, with the exception of Duncan and Kobe.

[NumberSix]

You can always showcase your greatness in troubled seasons but it counts more when winning through loyalty and patience vs. intimidation and flat out bolting and using your talent as a puppeteer of the league.
And nailing a beautiful woman counts more when you didn't meet at a bar.......

O wait. It doesn't.

[navy]

there was a hefty amount of time when kobe won his previous ring and dominated the league before winning another 7 years later. that took patience and legacy know-how.
Revisionist history. Kobe was literally demanding to be traded. Patience and legacy know how? Please.

[Fawker]

eff it tim, manu, and parker

[stalkerforlife]

Revisionist history. Kobe was literally demanding to be traded. Patience and legacy know how? Please.

Kobe was lighting a fire under their asses.

And you know it.

He had the no trade clause and no trade happened.

[NumberSix]

Revisionist history. Kobe was literally demanding to be traded. Patience and legacy know how? Please.
The ONLY thing that stopped Kobe from leaving was being under contract.

It got to the point that Jerry Buss had to call him into the office and tell him "if you keep this up, I WILL trade you...... To DETROIT"

[TheCorporation]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol

[NumberSix]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol if you're a sheep.

A sheep does what a sheep does. It's not in their nature to do what a lion does or to even understand why a lion does what a lion does.

[ILLsmak]

because it cost them potential superstardom and money down the track

say for example Kenny Smith is now on nba tv all the damn time while mitch Richmond is pretty much a "who is that again?" for your average fan

winning championships makes YOU relevant

very very small amount of players become stars and are remembered if they don't win

although it would be nice to see some loyalty and obviously as a fan of the Orlando magic i would love to see it there lol but reality is the NBA is a business first

I was thinking about Nick Young. I don't think it's even winning rings. It's more of being in a big market.

I can understand someone leaving for a bigger market if their team is not getting them famous enough. Ewing is famous. Reggie is famous (not cuz he played in a big market, but he killed them on TV.)

None of the 2004 Pistons are really famous, on the other hand. If you don't know who Mitch Richmond is, I can't believe you know any of them.

-Smak

[ILLsmak]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol


Also, dudes need to stop using this example.

-Smak

[BasedTom]

if you're a sheep.

A sheep does what a sheep does. It's not in their nature to do what a lion does or to even understand why a lion does what a lion does.
Write us an essay about it.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121219134513/glee/images/7/72/Jaejoong_popcorn.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/2837510/michael-jackson-eating-popcorn-o.gif

[NZStreetBaller]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol

Its really a perfect example.... but when its comes to sports where pride and legacy are at stake. i say stay loyal

[west_tip]

if you're a sheep.

A sheep does what a sheep does. It's not in their nature to do what a lion does or to even understand why a lion does what a lion does.

Lions for the most part are lazy and dependent on the lioness for providing food. This is a poorly thought out analogy.

[Doranku]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol

What happens when the top two companies and another top 10 company combine to form Super Company XYZ and dominate the rest of their much weaker competition?

Oh wait, that's illegal. Go f*ck yourself.

[NumberSix]

Lions for the most part are lazy and dependent on the lioness for providing food. This is a poorly thought out analogy.
That's not actually true. The majority of Male lions live as nomads who provide for themselves.

The ones that do have their own prides don't rely on the females. They just eat first on the females kill. They also eat first on their own kills.

[bigkingsfan]

Like anyone would cry if Lebron chose their team, STFU.

[Ne 1]

Revisionist history. Kobe was literally demanding to be traded. Patience and legacy know how? Please.
Kobe was never going to leave the Lakers IMO. He was just pressuring the front office to bring in talent. He did what he did and got Gasol after Bynum got injured.

Dude's "temper tantrum" turned the organization around in a matter of months. Perhaps if guys would quit sitting on their hands wanting the public and the media to like them they'd get shit done.

Anyway Kobe has played every game of his career with one team and even Magic Johnson asked for a trade once. Why should Kobe should be punished because the Lakers refused to honor his wishes and instead tried to build a better team? Kobe never said "swing a Gasol deal" he said "trade me to bummy Chicago to play with Ben Gordon."

[NumberSix]

Like anyone would cry if Lebron chose their team, STFU.
I'd cry. Tears of juh.

[dunksby]

Dude has changed teams only once in his NBA career leave the guy alone :oldlol:

[west_tip]

That's not actually true. The majority of Male lions live as nomads who provide for themselves.

The ones that do have their own prides don't rely on the females. They just eat first on the females kill. They also eat first on their own kills.

Are you sure about that? It seems according to wiki that lionesses are much more suited/adapted to hunting and do the majority of hunting for the pride and nomads are basically the rejects that no-one wants to **** with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

Anyway, goddamn, 50% of a Lions diet is from scavenging and they are inactive 20 hours out of the day. :facepalm Is there a more overrated animal? Are they even particularly intelligent?

[BoutPractice]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol
It's true to some extent, but the analogy is misleading because LeBron is not just some random employee.

Whether he wants it or not, he's royalty, more than that even, he and his kind (Hollywood actors, rock stars, and so on) serve the same purpose in contemporary society as ancient Greek and Roman heroes and gods. Everything they do writes a story.

That's what LeBron signed up for. And it's how people are going to remember it when America becomes a civilization from the past.

What that means is that everything LeBron does has a kind of "resonance". It's not just a practical decision that may or may not make sense, if he doesn't define it writers from all around the globe fill in the blanks and derive their own meaning from it.

[NumberSix]

Are you sure about that? It seems according to wiki that lionesses are much more suited/adapted to hunting and do the majority of hunting for the pride and nomads are basically the rejects that no-one wants to **** with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion

Anyway, goddamn, 50% of a Lions diet is from scavenging and they are inactive 20 hours out of the day. :facepalm Is there a more overrated animal? Are they even particularly intelligent?
Scavenging doesn't necessarily mean what you think it does. If a lion is walking around and sees a hyena or a cheetah eating something it just killed, the lion will just take it. Much easier than actually hunting and killing something.

[west_tip]

Let's say you work for Company A. Then all of a sudden you find out that Company B has better coworkers, better benefits, pay, etc. Would you stay at Company A? :lol

Thats a very unimaginative way of looking at things. If Jimmy Hendrix had joined The Beatles because they were a "better band" that generated more revenue, sold more records etc. not only would his creative genius have been stifled but we would have been denied his excellent live performances and his incredible body of recorded work.

You can't always think that consolidating talents into one organization is a good thing. In fact the most successful artists, businessmen and entrepreneurs etc. have invariably struck out on their own and done their own thing rather than taking the safer route of collaborating with would be competitors. Of course there is more risk involved but the payoffs are far greater.

America was shaped according to the principle of rugged individualism rather than cowardly collaboration and fear of failure.

[r15mohd]

Thats a very unimaginative way of looking at things. If Jimmy Hendrix had joined The Beatles because they were a "better band" that generated more revenue, sold more records etc. not only would his creative genius have been stifled but we would have been denied his excellent live performances and his incredible body of recorded work.

You can't always think that consolidating talents into one organization is a good thing. In fact the most successful artists, businessmen and entrepreneurs etc. have invariably struck out on their own and done their own thing rather than taking the safer route of collaborating with would be competitors. Of course there is more risk involved but the payoffs are far greater.

America was shaped according to the principle of rugged individualism rather than cowardly collaboration and fear of failure.

there is no title/championship in which Jimi or the Beatles would contend for...their main objective was to put out music to first please the fan base and increase it, and then gain revenue. the competition factor isn't there as opposed to other instances like the NBA or a corporate position for contention.

if Lebron never left Cleveland and never got a ring, he'd be a modern day Barkley and to a lesser extent, Malone. he made his goal a reality...how many truly can say that?

[GimmeThat]

because players have help the FO made retarded decisions before, then they realize they are better off parting way.

why can't owner trade ownerships?



-hint- stability issue

[kamil]

Would op stay at a failing business when every other business in town would be willing to give their left nut to hire him at any price he would chose for himself?

A failing business is not the same as an NBA player still earning millions.

You're an idiot.

[Dresta]

It's true to some extent, but the analogy is misleading because LeBron is not just some random employee.

Whether he wants it or not, he's royalty, more than that even, he and his kind (Hollywood actors, rock stars, and so on) serve the same purpose in contemporary society as ancient Greek and Roman heroes and gods. Everything they do writes a story.

That's what LeBron signed up for. And it's how people are going to remember it when America becomes a civilization from the past.

What that means is that everything LeBron does has a kind of "resonance". It's not just a practical decision that may or may not make sense, if he doesn't define it writers from all around the globe fill in the blanks and derive their own meaning from it.
:facepalm

[Purch]

I think you can look at the Spurs as an example of not just jumping ship when "you see the writing on the wall".

3 years ago the Spurs lost to the Memphis grizzlies in the 1st round and Tony Parker made this statement

"We will always have a good team but we can no longer say that we're playing for a championship." -2011 Tony Parker

It was their first time getting eliminated that early. It was clear that the spurs were on decline..Manu was slowing down..and Tim was coming off his worst season ever. The future didnt look bright, and they didnt have the personal they needed to be a top defensive team anymore. Even their 4th option they signed to extend their window, Richard Jefferson was a complete disaster.

Timmy like Wade was looking like it was time for him to retire. What did he do? He completley restructured his body , lost like 15 pounds, and changed his game to extend his career. Parker took his game to a new level for the purpose of the new up tempo offense that Pop had designed. They all took less money then they could have got on the open market, so they could sign role players around their core.

In that moment they all had the right to jump ship for a better situation that could give them more opportunities, yet they all made decisions in the best intrest of the team, which led them to the point in which they are now. 3 straight conference finals, back to back finals appearances, and 1 championship.

If the spurs stars had done what you guys are proposing, and abandoned loyalty when they saw the writing on the wall, we wouldn't be talking about them as the 2014 nba champions

[Rake2204]

there is no title/championship in which Jimi or the Beatles would contend for...their main objective was to put out music to first please the fan base and increase it, and then gain revenue. the competition factor isn't there as opposed to other instances like the NBA or a corporate position for contention.

if Lebron never left Cleveland and never got a ring, he'd be a modern day Barkley and to a lesser extent, Malone. he made his goal a reality...how many truly can say that?I believe creating a band is different from creating a team which is different from creating a business.

I do not believe all winning is the same in basketball. When people say, "Win by any means possible", I think that's a reference to giving one's all on the field of play. I don't think the spirit of such a comment is "Win by any means possible, even if it means taking the five best players and grouping them together so as to overwhelm any possible contenders and subsequently never lose." In that case, competition is gone and the whole point behind sport is eliminated.

Even speaking from personal experience, I like joining good teams but not to the point where there's a 90% chance it's going to be incredibly unfair for my opponents. I think that's standard operating procedure in most locations.

[FLDFSU]

Why can't teams be loyal and stick with one player? Why did Chicago have to trade Deng and the Heat cut Miller when neither wanted to leave the organization?

[DMAVS41]

Because people that write the history of the game and fans hold that against players.

KG isn't as high in the rankings as he would be if he left Minny after 04.

Dirk isn't as high as he would be if he played on a more loaded team and had 4 titles.

Lebron isn't as high as he would be if he played his first 7 years in a Kobe or Magic or Bird type situation.

You people and the media and even basketball historians don't reward players for sticking it out in all honesty. There are no bonus points for being Duncan, Kobe, and Dirk...ultimately Lebron will pass all of them (already passed Dirk and probably Kobe) if he wins 5 titles...so what does it matter?

[nathanjizzle]

Would op stay at a failing business when every other business in town would be willing to give their left nut to hire him at any price he would chose for himself?

miami is a failing business that has been to the finals 4 years in a row and won 2 out of those 4 :bowdown:

the analogies are incredibly inaccurate.

[FLDFSU]

I believe creating a band is different from creating a team which is different from creating a business.

I do not believe all winning is the same in basketball. When people say, "Win by any means possible", I think that's a reference to giving one's all on the field of play. I don't think the spirit of such a comment is "Win by any means possible, even if it means taking the five best players and grouping them together so as to overwhelm any possible contenders and subsequently never lose." In that case, competition is gone and the whole point behind sport is eliminated.

Even speaking from personal experience, I like joining good teams but not to the point where there's a 90% chance it's going to be incredibly unfair for my opponents. I think that's standard operating procedure in most locations.

Thank god the average nba player doesn't think like this. Who cares if the five "best" players are on the same team. Your job as a competitor is to beat them. They still play on the same court with the same ball by the same rules with the same number of people with similar schedule. If you cut them they will bleed.

As a Heat fan, I wished the Mavs and the Spurs thought like this. We would have 2 more rings.

[JohnFreeman]

Why stay at a job you don't like

[CelticBaller]

because lebron is a bitch

[Rake2204]

Because people that write the history of the game and fans hold that against players.

KG isn't as high in the rankings as he would be if he left Minny after 04.

Dirk isn't as high as he would be if he played on a more loaded team and had 4 titles.

Lebron isn't as high as he would be if he played his first 7 years in a Kobe or Magic or Bird type situation.

You people and the media and even basketball historians don't reward players for sticking it out in all honesty. There are no bonus points for being Duncan, Kobe, and Dirk...ultimately Lebron will pass all of them (already passed Dirk and probably Kobe) if he wins 5 titles...so what does it matter?I actually believe there's a lot of truth to that and I have always found it to be quite unfortunate. A part of me actually believed at one point, that one reason LeBron left Cleveland was because of the "legacy" hype by mass media and many fans. I almost felt like he gave in, as if he thought, "Alright, so my being a great player doesn't matter as much unless I have championship rings? Okay, so I'll go ensure myself a couple of rings real quick to appease y'all."

Clearly, that sounds ridiculous, but it crossed my mind nonetheless. To me, it's been so clear that LeBron James was/is a legendary player, easily the best and most dominant I've seen since Michael Jordan (and better than MJ in certain regards). Rings were never going to change my feelings on that. Greatness is greatness to me. Put James on a super stacked NBA team and he's great. Give him the 2007 8th Grade A Team I coached as teammates and he'd still be just as great.

Part of my disappointment with James' initial move to Miami was because I thought he saw through all that.


Thank god the average nba player doesn't think like this. Who cares if the five "best" players are on the same team. Your job as a competitor is to beat them. They still play on the same court with the same ball by the same rules with the same number of people with similar schedule. If you cut them they will bleed.

As a Heat fan, I wished the Mavs and the Spurs thought like this. We would have 2 more rings.Please allow me to clarify. My stance was to suggest that "Win by any means possible" was not a phrase made up to encourage players to try to get all the best competition to join their team so as to stomp the leftovers into submission. Instead, I believe it was in reference to giving one's all once already on the field of play.

[1~Gibson~1]

You acting like you wouldnt leave your company for a one that has better benefits/co workers :coleman:
This.

Its not like these players are married to the team. Once you sign a contract, it applies to both sides. Ive seen plenty of professional athletes get cut by a team for the slightes reason... guys wwho've been "loyal" to the team all their career, then axed by their team.

Its kinda fun to watch it happen the other way around as well because now youre putting pressure on the ownership as well.

[Fork]

Because it's also a buisness. Players want money, a good place to live along side a possibility of a championship. While fans only want the championship

[Mr Exlax]

Why can't teams be loyal and stick with one player? Why did Chicago have to trade Deng and the Heat cut Miller when neither wanted to leave the organization?

This is what I was coming in to ask

[Fork]

Why can't teams be loyal and stick with one player? Why did Chicago have to trade Deng and the Heat cut Miller when neither wanted to leave the organization?


this

[GimmeThat]

This is what I was coming in to ask


because some team thinks that their coach trump all.

[Roundball_Rock]

Society has changed and ultimately basketball players are part of, not apart from, society. It is rare these days to see people staying with one company for their entire careers, or even spending long stretches of their career with one employer. As several posters have noted, people move to improve their work situation. Why should basketball players not be allowed to exercise the same rights "regular" people do all the time? Why stay in an inferior situation simply because that is the company that "drafted" you?


Why can't teams be loyal and stick with one player? Why did Chicago have to trade Deng and the Heat cut Miller when neither wanted to leave the organization?

Great point. Not only are employees less "loyal" in modern society--so are employers. Even Peyton Manning and Joe Montana were let go by their teams!

[ArbitraryWater]

This is a freakin' business, players go from team to team, its normal..

[theoneneo]

Lol at all you betas defending Lebron "Oh, it's a business, he can do whatever he wants" :lol

Lebron is soft, Literally saved by a miracle 3 ball from Jesus himself. Guys like that bail because he can't realistically carry a team. Chris Bosh is more than serviceable 2nd option, But Lebron's ball hogging play style will never let them shine. Shit sad boy!

[BasedTom]

Lol at all you betas defending Lebron "Oh, it's a business, he can do whatever he wants" :lol

Lebron is soft, Literally saved by a miracle 3 ball from Jesus himself. Guys like that bail because he can't realistically carry a team. Chris Bosh is more than serviceable 2nd option, But Lebron's ball hogging play style will never let them shine. Shit sad boy!
Your mother is more than a servicable 2nd option when the inbred freaks at the circus decide to go on vacation.

Really? Lebron's ball-hogging? He defers to much, yet he's a ballhog. I've heard it all :lol

[LBJ 23]

Really? Lebron's ball-hogging? He defers to much, yet he's a ballhog. I've heard it all :lol


That one gets me every time yes :oldlol:

Lebron is a ballhog and he takes away from Wade's and Bosh's game because he takes so many shots and never tries to get them in rhythm and at the same time except for a few quarters(Finals) he's to passive and scared of the moment, defers to much when he should step up.

How can they be so dumb to contradict themselves all the time?

[r15mohd]

Society has changed and ultimately basketball players are part of, not apart from, society. It is rare these days to see people staying with one company for their entire careers, or even spending long stretches of their career with one employer. As several posters have noted, people move to improve their work situation. Why should basketball players not be allowed to exercise the same rights "regular" people do all the time? Why stay in an inferior situation simply because that is the company that "drafted" you?

Great point. Not only are employees less "loyal" in modern society--so are employers. Even Peyton Manning and Joe Montana were let go by their teams!


well there's valued reason to it...working for the same employer for a long period rarely benefits your income. sure you get more holidays and what not but only way to truly "advance" and go into new tax brackets is to seek outside the box IMO.


FORBES

Employees Who Stay In Companies Longer Than Two Years Get Paid 50% Less

Link: http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/

now this applies little to the NBA player as he'll be getting paid regardless, but only way to test your worth is to seek FA and market yourself. bottom line, if the organization isn't doing it's best to help you gain your goal of a title when you are the reason they're being so successful, FA will find you better suitors

[jlip]

No one cared about players sticking with one team until July 8, 2010.

[jongib369]

If they aren't making the right moves why should they stay? This is a business not a family, and any team would trade any player in a heartbeat if they felt like it was the better move for THEM. So a player using the same logic isn't really a bad thing depending how they go about it.

[Dro]

Thats why I have so much respect for Reggie. He could have left to ring chase near the end of his career but he stayed....

[FLDFSU]

Lol at all you betas defending Lebron "Oh, it's a business, he can do whatever he wants" :lol

Lebron is soft, Literally saved by a miracle 3 ball from Jesus himself. Guys like that bail because he can't realistically carry a team. Chris Bosh is more than serviceable 2nd option, But Lebron's ball hogging play style will never let them shine. Shit sad boy!

So Lebron defers too much yet is a ball hog? :facepalm

[KyrieTheFuture]

It's pretty easy to stick around when a player gifts you a ring in your first 3 years. Neither Kobe or Duncan stuck through thick and thin. They'd already had rings when things were "bad". MJ deserved some credit though.

[BasedTom]

http://www.vibe.com/sites/vibe.com/files/styles/main_image/public/article_images/original_2.jpg
http://richglare.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Dirk-Nowitzki.jpg
http://i841.photobucket.com/albums/zz338/SwiftPSGallery/kobelamar.jpg
http://dashvisionmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Wade_Hublot1.jpg
http://www.iamatrailblazersfan.com/Portals/iama/images/LA_071810.jpg

[Cavalier]

Players used to have pride. They wanted to beat the best, not join them. Now you've got the top guys from their draft class teaming up. It's kinda comical now how these guys have no shame in how they get their rings today. These rings don't mean much when you've got all the best players on your team.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Duncan almost left for Orlando despite winning a ring in his 2nd year...

[KyrieTheFuture]

Wilt Chamberlain was leaving teams over 40 years ago and people act like this is new

[Goldrush25]

Its really a perfect example.... but when its comes to sports where pride and legacy are at stake. i say stay loyal

If a team isn't loyal to winning, and the player wants to win, then they aren't loyal to the player. Why should the player be loyal to them?

Loyalty is more than writing a paycheck.

How much longer should LBJ have stuck around Cleveland to wait to be gifted his All-time top 50 player?

[Roundball_Rock]

It's pretty easy to stick around when a player gifts you a ring in your first 3 years. Neither Kobe or Duncan stuck through thick and thin. They'd already had rings when things were "bad". MJ deserved some credit though.

MJ does, although his situation was a bit different.

1984: 27-55 (pre-Jordan).
1985: 38-44, first round.
1986: 30-52 (9-9 with MJ), first round.
1987: 40-42, first round.
1988: 50-32, ECSF.
1989: 47-35, ECF (6 games).
1990: 55-27, ECF (7 games).
1991: 61-21, champions.
1992: 67-15, champions.

That is steady, consistent progression. You could argue they hit a wall in 1987--but they had two top 10 picks after that season and hit on both (Grant with the 10th pick and Pippen, the 5th pick, via trading their 8th pick). While things were difficult and frustrating, MJ could see that the Bulls were progressing. Even as champions they improved again in 1992 to an all-time great level. Only in 1993 did they finally regress.

How does this compare to Lebron in Cleveland?

2003: 17-65 (pre-Lebron).
2004: 35-47.
2005: 42-40.
2006: 50-32, ECSF.
2007: 50-32, Finals.
2008: 45-37, ECSF.
2009: 66-16, ECF.
2010: 61-21, ECSF.

The Cavs showed progress in Lebron's first four seasons but then actually regressed. After making the Finals in 2007, they failed to do so in the next three seasons and got to the ECF only once during that span.


well there's valued reason to it...working for the same employer for a long period rarely benefits your income. sure you get more holidays and what not but only way to truly "advance" and go into new tax brackets is to seek outside the box IMO.

Good point but in past eras many people worked for the same company, to a significant degree due to loyalty, and saw themselves steadily rise through the ranks during their career, partly due to employer loyalty. That simply is rare today.

[r15mohd]

MJ does, although his situation was a bit different.

1984: 27-55 (pre-Jordan).
1985: 38-44, first round.
1986: 30-52 (9-9 with MJ), first round.
1987: 40-42, first round.
1988: 50-32, ECSF.
1989: 47-35, ECF (6 games).
1990: 55-27, ECF (7 games).
1991: 61-21, champions.
1992: 67-15, champions.

That is steady, consistent progression. You could argue they hit a wall in 1987--but they had two top 10 picks after that season and hit on both (Grant with the 10th pick and Pippen, the 5th pick, via trading their 8th pick). While things were difficult and frustrating, MJ could see that the Bulls were progressing. Even as champions they improved again in 1992 to an all-time great level. Only in 1993 did they finally regress.

How does this compare to Lebron in Cleveland?

2003: 17-65 (pre-Lebron).
2004: 35-47.
2005: 42-40.
2006: 50-32, ECSF.
2007: 50-32, Finals.
2008: 45-37, ECSF.
2009: 66-16, ECF.
2010: 61-21, ECSF.

The Cavs showed progress in Lebron's first four seasons but then actually regressed. After making the Finals in 2007, they failed to do so in the next three seasons and got to the ECF only once during that span.



Good point but in past eras many people worked for the same company, to a significant degree due to loyalty, and saw themselves steadily rise through the ranks during their career, partly due to employer loyalty. That simply is rare today.


I don't think it's regression...he did have pretty amazing seasons and deep playoff runs thereafter, for the least it was consistent.

[DMAVS41]

MJ does, although his situation was a bit different.

1984: 27-55 (pre-Jordan).
1985: 38-44, first round.
1986: 30-52 (9-9 with MJ), first round.
1987: 40-42, first round.
1988: 50-32, ECSF.
1989: 47-35, ECF (6 games).
1990: 55-27, ECF (7 games).
1991: 61-21, champions.
1992: 67-15, champions.

That is steady, consistent progression. You could argue they hit a wall in 1987--but they had two top 10 picks after that season and hit on both (Grant with the 10th pick and Pippen, the 5th pick, via trading their 8th pick). While things were difficult and frustrating, MJ could see that the Bulls were progressing. Even as champions they improved again in 1992 to an all-time great level. Only in 1993 did they finally regress.

How does this compare to Lebron in Cleveland?

2003: 17-65 (pre-Lebron).
2004: 35-47.
2005: 42-40.
2006: 50-32, ECSF.
2007: 50-32, Finals.
2008: 45-37, ECSF.
2009: 66-16, ECF.
2010: 61-21, ECSF.

The Cavs showed progress in Lebron's first four seasons but then actually regressed. After making the Finals in 2007, they failed to do so in the next three seasons and got to the ECF only once during that span.



Good point but in past eras many people worked for the same company, to a significant degree due to loyalty, and saw themselves steadily rise through the ranks during their career, partly due to employer loyalty. That simply is rare today.


The difference between the MJ and Lebron situations is that MJ's team had a bright future with young players and players to build around.

Take a look at the 2010 Cavs...they had nothing but Lebron for the future. Jamison/Shaq..etc. Just old guys and no young budding stars or future stars...limited draw in free agency...etc.

Just two completely different scenarios.

There is no way in hell that Lebron would have left if he had his version of Pippen in 2010 in my opinion. And that is all on the Cavs...they could not have done worse building that franchise around Lebron those 7 years. Just pathetic.

[senelcoolidge]

I would have loved to been drafted by a small market or a team in a rut and made that MY TEAM. Not just my team but also a contending team. I'm kind of old school, so I would like to stay with one team all of my career. Kind of like Tony Gwynn in San Diego.

[SouBeachTalents]

Thats why I have so much respect for Reggie. He could have left to ring chase near the end of his career but he stayed....

Lol, and look how well that turned out for him

[Roundball_Rock]

It can be argued either way but at best the Cavs had hit a wall.


The difference between the MJ and Lebron situations is that MJ's team had a bright future with young players and players to build around.

Take a look at the 2010 Cavs...they had nothing but Lebron for the future. Jamison/Shaq..etc. Just old guys and no young budding stars or future stars...limited draw in free agency...etc.

Just two completely different scenarios.


Exactly. Moreover, MJ could also see that time was on his side. His team was not in its prime while Detroit was and Boston was past its prime. The best players in his conference were Barkley and Ewing--who were on mid-pack teams.

Contrast that to the East circa 2010. The Boston Big 3 had just made another Finals and defeated the three best players in the East in successive series. They had an emerging Rondo to lighten their load as they aged. Dwight Howard, of a similar age to Lebron, who was the second best or at least third best player in the East, was on a perennial contender in Orlando. Chicago was emerging with a core of Rose, Noah, Deng and would indeed break out in 2011.

There simply was nothing to suggest that Cleveland's situation would improve. They would remain a contender and perhaps could have won a title but they would be one of 3-4 contenders. MJ, circa 1989, could clearly see the window would open wide for the Bulls in the 90's as his team hit its prime and Detroit and Boston aged into inferiority.

[SouBeachTalents]

Wow, this "staying on the same team" obsession wasn't even relevant until LeBron signed with Miami. Then a few of the older players called him out on it, and now a lot of the posters on here mindlessly sprout the same bullshit like a bunch of sheep.

What's so difficult to understand that LeBron's Cavs were FAR worse than the fortunate situations players like Magic and Bird were drafted into. And no, I'm not knocking those guys, they were the biggest reasons why their teams were successful and definitely deserve their rank among the all time ranks. If LeBron had great teammates like they had, such as a Kareem/Worthy or McHale/Parish combo on the Cavs, he definitely doesn't leave Cleveland.

[diamenz]

Players used to have pride. They wanted to beat the best, not join them. Now you've got the top guys from their draft class teaming up. It's kinda comical now how these guys have no shame in how they get their rings today. These rings don't mean much when you've got all the best players on your team.

pretty much this. ya'll can discuss in multiple paragraph posts all you want, but this is the bottom line, plain and simple.

[Goldrush25]

Kind of like Tony Gwynn in San Diego.


Yeah, what did he end up winning, besides oral cancer?