Cavs Offered 1st Pick For Love. Love Refuses

[AirTupac]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 2m
Cleveland pushed on deal centered on No. 1 pick for Kevin Love, but his refusal to re-sign w/ Cavs has killed talks, sources tell Yahoo.



Cavs getting rejected by every girl :lol

[1~Gibson~1]

Oh whale :confusedshrug:

[ZeN]

This is a surprise to no one lol

[FireMcFailPlease]

i hate Kevin Love.

[PleezeBelieve]

If I were a Wolves fan. I'd be pissed

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I wonder if he'd still refuse if Cleveland got Melo or Bron first.

[Marchesk]

If I were a Wolves fan. I'd be pissed

Yeah, really. Are there any Wolves fans on this board?

[pastis]

didnt want to play with lebron and kyrie:confusedshrug:

at least he seems to be loyal:applause:

[FireMcFailPlease]

I wonder if he'd still refuse if Cleveland got Melo or Bron first.
Kinda hard to do that when the draft comes before free agency

[1~Gibson~1]

Kinda hard to do that when the draft comes before free agency
I was thinking the same thing... but wouldn't they just pick Wiggins anyway?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kinda hard to do that when the draft comes before free agency
True :hammerhead:

[Cone]

thank god for Cleveland. love is definitely not worth it.. even if he resigned

[Uncle Drew]

Thank God, bullet dodged.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Yeah. Honestly this is good for Cleveland.

[bagelred]

Kevin Love....making his teammates better...one playoffless season at a time.....

[imdaman99]

Cavs dodged a bullet there. Love is a career loser. I don't like Melo but at least Melo is capable of winning.

[dubeta]

NO way Kevin Love is worth more than Wiggins or Parker

[Meticode]

I wouldn't want that trade anyway.

[DMAVS41]

Honestly not sure Love is worth it, but pretending he was...this is why the league and these markets are really tough

The Cavs have a ton of young talented players in Irving, Waiters, and Thompson. Not sure what Bennet will be, but he's young as well. They'd have a ton of cap space as well to go out and improve the team if they could get Love.

I'm assuming it's something Love for Jack and the number 1.

That should be a place Love would want to go...especially as it's in the weaker conference.

I'm just not sure in the long run if you can have a successful franchise given the current rules of the NBA if a team like the Cavs just has no ability to attract free agents.

[1~Gibson~1]

Ive never seen Love play but whats so bad about his game? I thought he was the next "superstar" in the nba.

[LoneyROY7]

:roll:

To the surprise of absolutely no one.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Pretty good chance Love is better than than #1 pick's peak. :confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs dodged a bullet there. Love is a career loser. I don't like Melo but at least Melo is capable of winning.
I was so relieved when I heard this thing fell through. Why can't the Cavs just be content with building off of the assets they have. I feel like they aren't truly relishing the unique opportunity they have, here. The grass is always greener on the otherside.

[jzek]

'cos his dream is to play in LA. He's an LA boy since birth.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Pretty good chance Love is better than than #1 pick's peak. :confusedshrug:

90% chance at least

[Meticode]

Pretty good chance Love is better than than #1 pick's peak. :confusedshrug:
Doesn't mean two shits if he doesn't want to resign. Waste of time to even explore the trade if he doesn't want to do that.

[DMAVS41]

I was so relieved when I heard this thing fell through. Why can't the Cavs just be content with building off of the assets they have. I feel like they aren't truly relishing the unique opportunity they have, here. The grass is always greener on the otherside.

It's because if they miss on another pick and end up not doing anything for the next 3 to 5 years (which could happen if they miss on the pick)...then what do you do then?

It's going to be almost impossible to get any credibility with players and fans if you get 4 number 1 picks since 2003 and have what the Cavs have to show for it.

I agree with you...I don't think they should make this trade for Love, but at least with Love and the shedding of Jack...you have a for sure playoff team and flexibility to add pieces and get better. Irving/Waiters/Love/Thompson in the East is a nice core that could do some real damage depending on what you surround them with.

I just don't think Wiggins or Parker will be as good as Love is honestly. And neither do the Cavs. This is why I'm in favor of the Cavs taking the Magic deal and just taking Embid at the 4. He's the best player in the draft and if you get Afflalo (who you can keep to lure free agents or move for the lottery pick like the 11th) and you get the 12...and you can shed Jack in the process. I just like that better.

That was my point earlier...in theory, the Cavs should be able move the 1 and get a star in return. Again, I'm not sold that Love would be that right guy, but it's just hard because it seems like no star is willing to sign on the Cavs. And that doesn't make sense. Irving/Waiters/Thompson is a legit core and they are all 22 and under...and Bennett seems like he can be a top 7 guy on a good team as well...at least he has the potential.

[COnDEMnED]

I guess Love isn't a Drew Carey fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DMKVHpuGQ8

[Threethrows]

I guess Love isn't a Drew Carey fan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DMKVHpuGQ8

RIP fat Drew. I feel like he's going to die from a coke overdose soon after he marries that porn bitch he's with.

[RedBlackAttack]

It's because if they miss on another pick and end up not doing anything for the next 3 to 5 years (which could happen if they miss on the pick)...then what do you do then?

It's going to be almost impossible to get any credibility with players and fans if you get 4 number 1 picks since 2003 and have what the Cavs have to show for it.

I agree with you...I don't think they should make this trade for Love, but at least with Love and the shedding of Jack...you have a for sure playoff team and flexibility to add pieces and get better. Irving/Waiters/Love/Thompson in the East is a nice core that could do some real damage depending on what you surround them with.

I just don't think Wiggins or Parker will be as good as Love is honestly. And neither do the Cavs. This is why I'm in favor of the Cavs taking the Magic deal and just taking Embid at the 4. He's the best player in the draft and if you get Afflalo (who you can keep to lure free agents or move for the lottery pick like the 11th) and you get the 12...and you can shed Jack in the process. I just like that better.

That was my point earlier...in theory, the Cavs should be able move the 1 and get a star in return. Again, I'm not sold that Love would be that right guy, but it's just hard because it seems like no star is willing to sign on the Cavs. And that doesn't make sense. Irving/Waiters/Thompson is a legit core and they are all 22 and under...and Bennett seems like he can be a top 7 guy on a good team as well...at least he has the potential.
Most of the best teams in the league were not built through free agency and by convincing "stars" to play with them. Look around... the four teams remaining in the playoffs -- when all was said and done -- were the Spurs, Heat, Pacers and Thunder. Only one of those teams have a star player that they didn't draft and virtually any team James plays for is going to be playing deep into the playoffs. The Heat are the exception, not the rule.

The other teams both drafted well and brought in complimentary pieces to surround them with. You could go even deeper with it... the other teams that have tried to build a juggernaut through free agency or by trading away all of their assets for "stars" include the Knicks (horrible), Lakers (horrible), Nets (just OK), Rockets (just OK) and Clippers (good). The Pistons went after big name FAs last year and gave away their draft pick... how'd that turn out?

All of those teams had the option of going into a rebuild and doing things through the draft and instead opted to trade away those assets to build a "juggernaut." Most failed... miserably. There have been two teams that have successfully done it -- Clippers and Heat -- and one is impossible to replicate without the best player in the league (Heat) and the other drafted really well prior to bringing in the big star.

I'm looking around the league and, aside from the Spurs, Thunder and Pacers, I'm seeing the Blazers, Mavs, Bulls, Grizzlies, Wizards, Warriors...

These are generally considered the best teams and they did it the conventional way, not by trading away No. 1 picks for the Kevin Loves of the world.


Most people are hesitant to admit it, but the Cavs were actually much improved last season. Not only were they +12 in the win column (one of the biggest improvements league-wide), but they played better and better as the season progressed (were a .500 team in the second half of the season despite a bevy of injuries).

Now, we have what I think is the right coach in place, another No. 1 overall pick and tons of cap space / future assets. There's no reason this team can't be built into a contender by using these assets smartly and nurturing the young talent already in place instead of going for the splashy, quick fix.

Unless you're getting LeBron James (whom I don't want), I see attempting to flip our incredible luck into an established star as a potential disaster.

Like I said... this is a unique opportunity. Make the f#cking pick and worry about going after established players with the other assets we have.

[DMAVS41]

Most of the best teams in the league were not built through free agency and by convincing "stars" to play with them. Look around... the four teams remaining in the playoffs -- when all was said and done -- were the Spurs, Heat, Pacers and Thunder. Only one of those teams have a star player that they didn't draft and virtually any team James plays for is going to be playing deep into the playoffs. The Heat are the exception, not the rule.

The other teams both drafted well and brought in complimentary pieces to surround them with. You could go even deeper with it... the other teams that have tried to build a juggernaut through free agency or by trading away all of their assets for "stars" include the Knicks (horrible), Lakers (horrible), Nets (just OK), Rockets (just OK) and Clippers (good).

All of those teams had the option of going into a rebuild and doing things through the draft and instead opted to trade away those assets and attempt to build a juggernaut. Most failed... miserably. There have been two teams that have successfully done it -- Clippers and Heat -- and one is impossible to replicate without the best player in the league (Heat) and the other drafted really well prior to bringing in the big star.

I'm looking around the league and, aside from the Spurs, Thunder and Pacers, I'm seeing the Blazers, Mavs, Bulls, Grizzlies, Wizards, Warriors...

These are generally considered the best teams and they did it the conventional way, not by trading away No. 1 picks for the Kevin Loves of the world.


Most people are hesitant to admit it, but the Cavs were actually much improved last season. Not only were they +12 in the win column (one of the biggest improvements league-wide), but they played better and better as the season progressed (were a .500 team in the second half of the season despite a bevy of injuries).

Now, we have what I think is the right coach in place, another No. 1 overall pick and tons of cap space / future assets. There's no reason this team can't be built into a contender through using these assets smartly and nurturing the young talent already in place.

Unless you're getting LeBron James (whom I don't want), I see attempting to flip our incredible luck into an established star as a potential disaster.

Like I said... this is a unique opportunity. Make the f#cking pick and worry about going after established players with the other assets we have.


I'm not refuting that, but you guys are on a weird spot because you've had the first pick twice.

You have an owner constantly saying you want to stop the rebuilding process. That isn't changing if you draft Wiggins. He's not going to come in and be a huge boost to the team in year 1 and turn around the franchise or something.

I mean...I hope he does, but it's not likely.

I'm saying this not just about the Cavs. Shit, my Mavs don't get anyone either. Also, times are changing...and you tallk about building through the draft, but what good is that if teams that draft their star can't keep him because the draft is a crap shoot (it just is...beating the NBA draft outside of the 1st pick is mostly luck) and don't have the assets or market to overcome mistakes.

My point is that the current NBA with Love just turning down the Cavs...it makes this shit so much harder. Because we all know if you took the Cavs roster and put it in LA, Boston, or NY or probably a few others....he'd be on board for sure.

That is tough to overcome...

Just think about how this would go if it was the Lakers, for example, they'd trade the 1st pick and shed the Jack contract for Love. Then they'd clear room to get Melo or Lebron and they'd have Irving, Love, Melo/Lebron...with assets and cap flexibility.

The Cavs can't do any of that because Love won't come...and they will be forced to keep the pick or do the Magic trade (which I prefer actually) and run the risk is missing on the pick or picks again.

That is the difference. One is a sure fire contender for the next 7 years basically...the other is anything but a sure thing in any sense.

[Kidbasketball20]

Damn. This is actually a big deal imo.


Had he been cool with going to the Cavs, I think LeBron would have ended up going their and had a big 3 w/ Kyrie/LeBron/Love.


Now I don't see LeBron going to the Cavs.

[Derka]

Its too bad the Celtics have nothing that would help them get that #1 away from Cleveland. Ah well. GET TO IT TRADER DANNY.

[Meticode]

I'm not refuting that, but you guys are on a weird spot because you've had the first pick twice.

You have an owner constantly saying you want to stop the rebuilding process. That isn't changing if you draft Wiggins. He's not going to come in and be a huge boost to the team in year 1 and turn around the franchise or something.

I mean...I hope he does, but it's not likely.

I'm saying this not just about the Cavs. Shit, my Mavs don't get anyone either. Also, times are changing...and you tallk about building through the draft, but what good is that if teams that draft their star can't keep him because the draft is a crap shoot (it just is...beating the NBA draft outside of the 1st pick is mostly luck) and don't have the assets or market to overcome mistakes.

My point is that the current NBA with Love just turning down the Cavs...it makes this shit so much harder. Because we all know if you took the Cavs roster and put it in LA, Boston, or NY or probably a few others....he'd be on board for sure.

That is tough to overcome...
Like Jalen Rose said on Grantland 4 days ago, the Cavs are better off drafting a player like Wiggins or Embiid and keeping him long-term and building the process through that method. Because no huge star wants to go to Cleveland and play in that situation unless they're getting severely overpaid.

[longtime lurker]

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Like Jalen Rose said on Grantland 4 days ago, the Cavs are better off drafting a player like Wiggins or Embiid and keeping him long-term and building the process through that method. Because no huge star wants to go to Cleveland and play in that situation unless they're getting severely overpaid.

I agree. That is my point!

[Cavalier]

Damn. This is actually a big deal imo.


Had he been cool with going to the Cavs, I think LeBron would have ended up going their and had a big 3 w/ Kyrie/LeBron/Love.


Now I don't see LeBron going to the Cavs.

It's a conundrum. We're not taking a chance on Love if he won't sign the extension, and he's not going to sign because there's no telling right now if LeBron's coming back. Meanwhile, LeBron has less of an incentive to sign here without Love here.

Basically, LeBron would have to own up, come back to CLE and try to recruit whoever is willing to come here. He wasn't up to the challenge before so it's probably not happening anytime soon. Free agents just don't want to come here. The Cavs are better off continuing to build through the draft.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ive never seen Love play but whats so bad about his game? I thought he was the next "superstar" in the nba.

:biggums:

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Doesn't mean two shits if he doesn't want to resign. Waste of time to even explore the trade if he doesn't want to do that.

Was directed at those implying they didn't wouldn't do the trade for Love if he were to re-sign, anyway...

[DMAVS41]

Was directed at those implying they didn't wouldn't do the trade for Love if he were to re-sign, anyway...

Right...you trade this first pick for Love if he's willing to sign with your team.

The expected value of Wiggins/Parker is not what Love's value is currently.

Only player I don't do that deal for in this draft was a healthy Embid.

Not to mention it makes the Cavs 10 times more attractive to players.

[Black and White]

Does Love not understand that they could sign LeBron James? I thought he wants to win?

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm not refuting that, but you guys are on a weird spot because you've had the first pick twice.

You have an owner constantly saying you want to stop the rebuilding process. That isn't changing if you draft Wiggins. He's not going to come in and be a huge boost to the team in year 1 and turn around the franchise or something.

I mean...I hope he does, but it's not likely.

I'm saying this not just about the Cavs. Shit, my Mavs don't get anyone either. Also, times are changing...and you tallk about building through the draft, but what good is that if teams that draft their star can't keep him because the draft is a crap shoot (it just is...beating the NBA draft outside of the 1st pick is mostly luck) and don't have the assets or market to overcome mistakes.

My point is that the current NBA with Love just turning down the Cavs...it makes this shit so much harder. Because we all know if you took the Cavs roster and put it in LA, Boston, or NY or probably a few others....he'd be on board for sure.

That is tough to overcome...

Just think about how this would go if it was the Lakers, for example, they'd trade the 1st pick and shed the Jack contract for Love. Then they'd clear room to get Melo or Lebron and they'd have Irving, Love, Melo/Lebron...with assets and cap flexibility.

The Cavs can't do any of that because Love won't come...and they will be forced to keep the pick or do the Magic trade (which I prefer actually) and run the risk is missing on the pick or picks again.

That is the difference. One is a sure fire contender for the next 7 years basically...the other is anything but a sure thing in any sense.
I don't see anything that is particularly hard to overcome. Like I pointed out in the post you quoted, the vast majority of the best teams in the NBA were not built by convincing established stars to jump ship and join the team. I want players who want to win, so I understand why an established guy wouldn't have much interest in coming to the Cavs at this moment. We haven't proven yet that this is a team that can be an annual playoff team and threat in the Eastern Conference.

With that said, I really didn't expect that process to start this soon, especially after the Cavs essentially took a mulligan during last year's free agency class.

I guess we're having two separate conversations, here. You're taking this news as proof that the Cavs will never be able to sign an established star. I'm saying that they don't have to... that they're doing what they should do just by keeping the pick.

As a Cavs fan, I care about one thing and that is this team becoming a winner. I don't care if a guy like Love wants to be here or not. He probably wouldn't have wanted to be in Oklahoma City (Seattle) before they hit on some draft picks or Indiana before they hit on Paul George or Golden State when they were winning 23 games a few years ago.

That's one of the reasons I don't like this whole idea. You have to walk before you run. Let's get another nice young piece and build what we have into a winning situation before we go out and try to lure big-name FAs here, if we need to do it at all.

As for Dan Gilbert and his lack of patience, that's a concern that I have. However, so far, they have been remarkably patient since James left. They haven't freaked out (so far) and stupidly traded away any future picks for a quick fix. They haven't done what Detroit did last year and blow all of their cap space for big names with bad contracts.

I like where the team is right now in terms of the new coaching staff, young talent, cap space and future picks. More patience may be required, but I don't like what the alternative looks like.

I don't know why there needs to be some sped up timeline. You continue nurturing your young nucleus and the wins will come when the wins come. Trying to push it has a good chance of turning into a disaster.

[DMAVS41]

I don't see anything that is particularly hard to overcome. Like I pointed out in the post you quoted, the vast majority of the best teams in the NBA were not built by convincing established stars to jump ship and join the team. I want players who want to win, so I understand why an established guy wouldn't have much interest in coming to the Cavs at this moment. We haven't proven yet that this is a team that can be an annual playoff team and threat in the Eastern Conference.

With that said, I really didn't expect that process to start this soon, especially after the Cavs essentially took a mulligan during last year's free agency class.

I guess we're having two separate conversations, here. You're taking this news as proof that the Cavs will never be able to sign an established star. I'm saying that they don't have to... that they're doing what they should do just by keeping the pick.

As a Cavs fan, I care about one thing and that is this team becoming a winner. I don't care if a guy like Love wants to be here or not. He probably wouldn't have wanted to be in Oklahoma City (Seattle) before they hit on some draft picks or Indiana before they hit on Paul George or Golden State when they were winning 23 games a few years ago.

That's one of the reasons I don't like this whole idea. You have to walk before you run. Let's get another nice young piece and build what we have into a winning situation before we go out and try to lure big-name FAs here, if we need to do it at all.

As for Dan Gilbert and his lack of patience, that's a concern that I have. However, so far, they have been remarkably patient since James left. They haven't freaked out (so far) and stupidly traded away any future picks for a quick fix. They haven't done what Detroit did last year and blow all of their cap space for big names with bad contracts.

I like where the team is right now. More patience may be required, but I don't like what the alternative looks like.

I'm saying that getting that established star through the draft is not only harder than you are letting on, but getting one in certain markets is not a sure thing at all.

Lebron - gone
KG - gone
Love - gone
Howard - gone
Melo - gone

And a big reason why those guys left was the franchises inability to bring in other players.

The problem with building through the draft solely is that it's a luck fest. The more I look into it, and Bill Simmons wrote an interesting piece about this today (I didn't get a chance to look it over fully), the more it looks like the expected value is just luck...

Of course some teams do a better job than others, but teams like the Cavs that have done poor jobs...can't overcome those mistakes because of the market.

Like I said above. If the Lakers had the current Cavs roster. Not only would Love agree to the deal, but then Melo would come over and sign and it would be arguably the best roster in the league.

Obviously I'm not saying each team is ever going to be even, but trading the 1st pick, given the team the Cavs currently have, for Love...now that Embid isn't in play...is absolutely the right play.

The problem is that the team is in a market Love won't play in. And the league is changing...and more than ever these players are picking their spots...and this trend scares me not only for the Cavs/Bucks of the world, but for my Mavs as well. Not like we land anyone in free agency ever either.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm saying that getting that established star through the draft is not only harder than you are letting on, but getting one in certain markets is not a sure thing at all.

Lebron - gone
KG - gone
Love - gone
Howard - gone
Melo - gone

And a big reason why those guys left was the franchises inability to bring in other players.

The problem with building through the draft solely is that it's a luck fest. The more I look into it, and Bill Simmons wrote an interesting piece about this today (I didn't get a chance to look it over fully), the more it looks like the expected value is just luck...

Of course some teams do a better job than others, but teams like the Cavs that have done poor jobs...can't overcome those mistakes because of the market.

Like I said above. If the Lakers had the current Cavs roster. Not only would Love agree to the deal, but then Melo would come over and sign and it would be arguably the best roster in the league.

Obviously I'm not saying each team is ever going to be even, but trading the 1st pick, given the team the Cavs currently have, for Love...now that Embid isn't in play...is absolutely the right play.

The problem is that the team is in a market Love won't play in. And the league is changing...and more than ever these players are picking their spots...and this trend scares me not only for the Cavs/Bucks of the world, but for my Mavs as well. Not like we land anyone in free agency ever either.
You're working under the presumption that the Cavs have done a "poor job" drafting. I disagree. I like the young core we have in place, especially when you're adding another top tier prospect.

As for your list of guys that left the teams that drafted them, most of them spent 7-10 years with the franchise who picked them. That's good enough for me atm. We can re-evaluate seven years from now. It's pointless to try and project where the league will be that far down the road, let alone specific franchises. It wasn't but a few years ago that the Warriors committed one of the most obvious tank-jobs of all-time (the 2012 draft).

And, if Love is more interested in the market than in winning, I have no interest in adding him to this roster anyway.

Building a really good team is hard. This is not news. But, the Cavs have a unique opportunity if they remain patient and build the right culture. I think Blatt was a major step in the right direction.

Winning cures all ills. I can't agree that "the league is changing" when almost all of the best teams got there primarily through the draft.

[lilgodfather1]

Thank Jehova.

[DMAVS41]

You're working under the presumption that the Cavs have done a "poor job" drafting. I disagree. I like the young core we have in place, especially when you're adding another top tier prospect.

As for your list of guys that left the teams that drafted them, most of them spent 7-10 years with the franchise who picked them. That's good enough for me atm. We can re-evaluate seven years from now. It's pointless to try and project where the league will be that far down the road, let alone specific franchises. It wasn't but a few years ago that the Warriors committed one of the most obvious tank-jobs of all-time (the 2012 draft).

And, if Love is more interested in the market than in winning, I have no interest in adding him to this roster anyway.

Building a really good team is hard. This is not news. But, the Cavs have a unique opportunity if they remain patient and build the right culture. I think Blatt was a major step in the right direction.

Winning cures all ills. I can't agree that "the league is changing" when almost all of the best teams got there primarily through the draft.

I'm talking about in the past for the Cavs. The Lebron years...they do a poor job back then,.

Lately? I actually don't mind what they've done. I mean...I didn't love Waiters or Thompson, but whatever.

But I'm still confused as to your point.

You really wouldn't trade Wiggins for Love straight up?

[MC Gusto]

I was so relieved when I heard this thing fell through. Why can't the Cavs just be content with building off of the assets they have. I feel like they aren't truly relishing the unique opportunity they have, here. The grass is always greener on the otherside.
Gilbert wants to win, and he wants to win NOW.

[MC Gusto]

'cos his dream is to play in LA. He's an LA boy since birth.
But he grew up in Oregon tho. He's not even a real L.A. boy.

[MC Gusto]

Does Love not understand that they could sign LeBron James? I thought he wants to win?
That's just the bullshit that he's saying to get out of Minnesota without looking like the bad guy.

[RedBlackAttack]

I'm talking about in the past for the Cavs. The Lebron years...they do a poor job back then,.

Lately? I actually don't mind what they've done. I mean...I didn't love Waiters or Thompson, but whatever.

But I'm still confused as to your point.

You really wouldn't trade Wiggins for Love straight up?
I wouldn't even consider it unless it came with a long extension, no. And, in general, you expect a No. 1 pick to be a damn good player that you will essentially control for at least 7-8 years to start his career.

I don't think this is the right fit for Love. The team is still extremely young and has some growing pains probably still ahead of it. This was the second youngest roster in the entire league last season. How much sense does it make to add a guy who wants to and needs to win now?

Doesn't it make more sense to continue adding to the young core with talent and allowing that talent to grow together?

What am I missing?

[BlackVVaves]

Pretty good chance Love is better than than #1 pick's peak. :confusedshrug:

This.

Plus, the Wolves are not getting a better deal than that. Wiggins or Parker for Love? I'd be pissed as a Wolves fan, PISSED.

[BlackVVaves]

Most of the best teams in the league were not built through free agency and by convincing "stars" to play with them. Look around... the four teams remaining in the playoffs -- when all was said and done -- were the Spurs, Heat, Pacers and Thunder. Only one of those teams have a star player that they didn't draft and virtually any team James plays for is going to be playing deep into the playoffs. The Heat are the exception, not the rule.

The other teams both drafted well and brought in complimentary pieces to surround them with. You could go even deeper with it... the other teams that have tried to build a juggernaut through free agency or by trading away all of their assets for "stars" include the Knicks (horrible), Lakers (horrible), Nets (just OK), Rockets (just OK) and Clippers (good). The Pistons went after big name FAs last year and gave away their draft pick... how'd that turn out?

All of those teams had the option of going into a rebuild and doing things through the draft and instead opted to trade away those assets to build a "juggernaut." Most failed... miserably. There have been two teams that have successfully done it -- Clippers and Heat -- and one is impossible to replicate without the best player in the league (Heat) and the other drafted really well prior to bringing in the big star.

I'm looking around the league and, aside from the Spurs, Thunder and Pacers, I'm seeing the Blazers, Mavs, Bulls, Grizzlies, Wizards, Warriors...

These are generally considered the best teams and they did it the conventional way, not by trading away No. 1 picks for the Kevin Loves of the world.


Most people are hesitant to admit it, but the Cavs were actually much improved last season. Not only were they +12 in the win column (one of the biggest improvements league-wide), but they played better and better as the season progressed (were a .500 team in the second half of the season despite a bevy of injuries).

Now, we have what I think is the right coach in place, another No. 1 overall pick and tons of cap space / future assets. There's no reason this team can't be built into a contender by using these assets smartly and nurturing the young talent already in place instead of going for the splashy, quick fix.

Unless you're getting LeBron James (whom I don't want), I see attempting to flip our incredible luck into an established star as a potential disaster.

Like I said... this is a unique opportunity. Make the f#cking pick and worry about going after established players with the other assets we have.

This is literally...literally...what was said a year ago though. And that's the point DMavs is trying to make.

I don't see how trading one #1 pick for arguably the best PF in the game, while keeping your other players that you drafted in the lottery on the team, can be considered "trading all their assets" to "build a juggernaut."

But I guess that's just me.

[Nets fan 93]

Cleveland is better off without him. Get wiggins and keep the core young

[RedBlackAttack]

This is literally...literally...what was said a year ago though. And that's the point DMavs is trying to make.

I don't see how trading one #1 pick for arguably the best PF in the game, while keeping your other players that you drafted in the lottery on the team, can be considered "trading all their assets" to "build a juggernaut."

But I guess that's just me.
And it was true a year ago. As said numerous times, they took a mulligan in last year's free agent class and even have more salary off the books this year with Hawes and Deng coming off the books and potentially Gee and Varejao coming off as team options (if they so choose).

The point is fairly simple... We have the opportunity to take the best player in a class that has been heralded for years and control said player for the next eight years. That's quite a lot and it is something that people often miss when it comes to draft picks.

This is not an apples to apples trade. We'd need to control Love for a minimum of four years for me to even consider making a deal like this and there is obviously zero chance of that happening.

Yeah, I'll take eight years of Wiggins or Parker or Embiid -- whoever they like best -- over a couple years of Love. That's how you build a winner and it has been proven time and again.

[buddha]

But he grew up in Oregon tho. He's not even a real L.A. boy.

but everyone who is born in Oregon wishes they were born in California. :lol

[Meticode]

And it was true a year ago. As said numerous times, they took a mulligan in last year's free agent class and even have more salary off the books this year with Hawes and Deng coming off the books and potentially Gee and Varejao coming off as team options (if they so choose).

The point is fairly simple... We have the opportunity to take the best player in a class that has been heralded for years and control said player for the next eight years. That's quite a lot and it is something that people often miss when it comes to draft picks.

This is not an apples to apples trade. We'd need to control Love for a minimum of four years for me to even consider making a deal like this and there is obviously zero chance of that happening.

Yeah, I'll take eight years of Wiggins or Parker or Embiid -- whoever they like best -- over a couple years of Love. That's how you build a winner and it has been proven time and again.
What are you expecting tomorrow? I want them to draft Wiggins, but my gut tells me they're going to move the pick to Orlando for #4, #12 and Afflallo and try to get Embiid at #4 and if not him Exum.

[BlackVVaves]

And it was true a year ago. As said numerous times, they took a mulligan in last year's free agent class and even have more salary off the books this year with Hawes and Deng coming off the books and potentially Gee and Varejao coming off as team options (if they so choose).

The point is fairly simple... We have the opportunity to take the best player in a class that has been heralded for years and control said player for the next eight years. That's quite a lot and it is something that people often miss when it comes to draft picks.

This is not an apples to apples trade. We'd need to control Love for a minimum of four years for me to even consider making a deal like this and there is obviously zero chance of that happening.

Yeah, I'll take eight years of Wiggins or Parker or Embiid -- whoever they like best -- over a couple years of Love. That's how you build a winner and it has been proven time and again.

I feel you. The way you presented your original premise, it seemed you were against trading for Love altogether, even if he had agreed to sign an extension. But yes, obviously there's no way you make that trade without assurance from Love.

[NuggetsFan]

I don't think this is the right fit for Love. The team is still extremely young and has some growing pains probably still ahead of it. This was the second youngest roster in the entire league last season. How much sense does it make to add a guy who wants to and needs to win now?

Doesn't it make more sense to continue adding to the young core with talent and allowing that talent to grow together?

What am I missing?

Going by the average age of rosters doesn't really tell the whole story. Tons of guys who aren't as important weight down teams rosters. Cavs are obviously young, really young. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete.

Durant was what 22 when OKC made a push? Irving has 3 years in the league, will be 23 years old by the time next years playoffs roll around. Thompson will be 24 before next years playoffs, heading into his 4th season as well. Waiters is 23 next year, 3rd season. Anthony Bennett is only going into his 2nd season but at this point I wouldn't attach my plan to him in any way.

Cavs are young, shouldn't be incapable of making a push with Love or whatever top tier FA. Esp in the Eastern Conference. Love is what like 3 or 4 years older than Irving :confusedshrug:

[NuggetsFan]

I wouldn't do this trade tho, unless Love agreed to sign in Cleveland which doesn't seem like he would.

[RedBlackAttack]

What are you expecting tomorrow? I want them to draft Wiggins, but my gut tells me they're going to move the pick to Orlando for #4, #12 and Afflallo and try to get Embiid at #4 and if not him Exum.

I'm torn on either just drafting Wiggins and finally filling that SF spot that has been such a mess since James leaving or trading down and getting Embiid. I'll be happy either way, truthfully. Now, if we do something else, I may be very upset this time tomorrow.

All of this Exum stuff is particularly distressing to me. I don't know what to believe right now. I just wish it were over... I'm stressed out about it.


I feel you. The way you presented your original premise, it seemed you were against trading for Love altogether, even if he had agreed to sign an extension. But yes, obviously there's no way you make that trade without assurance from Love.

I said to even think about it, I'd need four years at least. I'm still not sure I'd take it. It has been difficult hearing all of these trade ideas and contrasting it with just how high people are on this draft. It seems like such an incredible stroke of luck that we pulled a No. 1 pick again, I'm just very cautious about making a deal to trade it.

Just seems like this was meant to be. As a Cavs fan, that's how it feels... and I'm afraid we're going to squander it.


Going by the average age of rosters doesn't really tell the whole story. Tons of guys who aren't as important weight down teams rosters. Cavs are obviously young, really young. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to compete.

Durant was what 22 when OKC made a push? Irving has 3 years in the league, will be 23 years old by the time next years playoffs roll around. Thompson will be 24 before next years playoffs, heading into his 4th season as well. Waiters is 23 next year, 3rd season. Anthony Bennett is only going into his 2nd season but at this point I wouldn't attach my plan to him in any way.

Cavs are young, shouldn't be incapable of making a push with Love or whatever top tier FA. Esp in the Eastern Conference. Love is what like 3 or 4 years older than Irving :confusedshrug:

I don't want to just barely make the playoffs, though. I'd like to build something truly special. Getting this pick right and taking the best guy in what is considered a stacked draft would go a long way to doing that.

There's a reason why No. 1 overall picks are rarely traded. It's an incredible opportunity for a franchise. When you combine that with all of the very young pieces -- some of which you listed -- and that our biggest needs positionally are the three guys at the top of this draft (Wiggins, Parker, Embiid)...

Just feels like this pick was meant to be. I don't think I'm out of line by just wanting to make the pick.

[NuggetsFan]

Nah I'd keep the pick too. I could see why an owner/FO with a talent like Irving would move it for Love/established star if he was willing to sign. With how the East is Cleveland picking up Love + making some other changes could probably put together a potential ECF/2nd round playoff team depending on health/chemistry etc. Who knows, Irving could be due for a massive year. He's at that point now.

If Melo leaves out West to Dallas/Houston, Indy loses Lance and Bron bolts from Miami to the Clippers? ... potential perfect storm. Even if LeBron stays and Melo goes to the Bulls/NY East is still pretty wide open. Ripe for the taking.

But yeah If I'm the GM I just draft Wiggins and be done with it.

[robert de niro]

Yeah, really. Are there any Wolves fans on this board?
:coleman: