Reggie Miller is better than Ray Allen...

[stalkerforlife]

Reggie Miller career stats - 18.2ppg, 3.0rpg,3.0apg, 47fg%, 39.5 3pt%, 88.8ft%.

Reggie Miller career playoff stats - 20.6ppg, 2.9rpg, 2.5apg, 45%, 39%, 89%.

Ray Allen career stats - 18.9ppg, 4.1rpg, 3.4apg, 45%, 40%, 89.4%.

Ray Allen career playoff stats - 16.1ppg, 3.8rpg, 2.6apg, 44.3%, 40%, 88%.

Are you asking yourself why Reggie Miller is better? Here's the number one reason...

Reggie Miller was never a ring chasing coward. Reggie Miller played in 1,389 games and all of them were for the Pacers, through thick and thin. Reggie Miller could have abandoned ship numerous times, but he stayed the course. Reggie Miller would rather be the man on a team that comes up short than a coward on a title team. Reggie Miller, while not being the best of the best, was still very alpha for a player of his caliber. It is also well known that Allen will play another year, following Bron anywhere he decides to go. Imagine Reggie's shooting percentages playing with KG, Pierce, Bron, Wade, Bosh, etc. Reggie was the better shooter from the field and he didn't have the luxury of being left unguarded.

Reggie Miller was also more durable and tougher than Allen could ever dream of being. Reggie played 80+ games 11 times in his career and played all 50 in the lockout shortened season. Allen only played in 80+ games 6 times.

I guess by looking at the raw stats, Allen has a slight edge. That's when you put context into it and voila, Reggie Miller comes off as the more loyal, more alpha, more ballsy, and leaves the ring chaser in the dust.

[atljonesbro]

Yeah, ok. Reggie Miller is one of the most overrated players EVER. Guy was nothing more than a solid all star who hit a few big shots

[SouBeachTalents]

Reggie Miller career stats - 18.2ppg, 3.0rpg,3.0apg, 47fg%, 39.5 3pt%, 88.8ft%.

Reggie Miller career playoff stats - 20.6ppg, 2.9rpg, 2.5apg, 45%, 39%, 89%.

Ray Allen career stats - 18.9ppg, 4.1rpg, 3.4apg, 45%, 40%, 89.4%.

Ray Allen career playoff stats - 16.1ppg, 3.8rpg, 2.6apg, 44.3%, 40%, 88%.

Are you asking yourself why Reggie Miller is better? Here's the number one reason...

Reggie Miller was never a ring chasing coward. Reggie Miller played in 1,389 games and all of them were for the Pacers, through thick and thin. Reggie Miller could have abandoned ship numerous times, but he stayed the course. Reggie Miller would rather be the man on a team that comes up short than a coward on a title team. Reggie Miller, while not being the best of the best, was still very alpha for a player of his caliber. It is also well known that Allen will play another year, following Bron anywhere he decides to go. Imagine Reggie's shooting percentages playing with KG, Pierce, Bron, Wade, Bosh, etc. Reggie was the better shooter from the field and he didn't have the luxury of being left unguarded.

Reggie Miller was also more durable and tougher than Allen could ever dream of being. Reggie played 80+ games 11 times in his career and played all 50 in the lockout shortened season. Allen only played in 80+ games 6 times.

I guess by looking at the raw stats, Allen has a slight edge. That's when you put context into it and voila, Reggie Miller comes off as the more loyal, more alpha, more ballsy, and leaves the ring chaser in the dust.

Just leave this for the LeBron threads

[pauk]

:applause:

[stalkerforlife]

Yeah, ok. Reggie Miller is one of the most overrated players EVER. Guy was nothing more than a solid all star who hit a few big shots

He's overrated because he never cowardly left the Pacers for greener pastures to win rings? Please, just stop. Reggie Miller was loyal and never won a ring because of it, but he was THE MAN on a bunch of really good teams.

Pay homage, pupil.

[russwest0]

lol of course. Reggie Miller is the best Pacer ever. Ray Allen will never come close to being the best player ever for any team.

It's not even close. Ray Allen had a chance to get remembered as a great Celtic but ruined that by betraying his teammates which knocked him down even more in the rankings.

[Connor B]

We are gonna act like Reggie Miller didn't choke his ass off in both the 1994 ECF and the 1998 ECF? Give me a break kid. Great player, likeable guy and does good work for TNT, but Ray Allen has made some of the most clutch shots ever, including obviously the the game 6 shot. He is the all time 3 point leading scorer in less seasons too.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Ray Allen in his prime >>>> reggie

[SouBeachTalents]

He's overrated because he never cowardly left the Pacers for greener pastures to win rings? Please, just stop. Reggie Miller was loyal and never won a ring because of it, but he was THE MAN on a bunch of really good teams.

Pay homage, pupil.

Is this Skip Bayless? Sounds exactly like him, he even has the Tebow avatar

[SouBeachTalents]

lol of course. Reggie Miller is the best Pacer ever. Ray Allen will never come close to being the best player ever for any team.

It's not even close. Ray Allen had a chance to get remembered as a great Celtic but ruined that by betraying his teammates which knocked him down even more in the rankings.

Yeah, no one will remember that 3 he hit in Game 6. Making arguably the most important shot in league history definitely drops him down in the rankings

[JohnFreeman]

Allen > Miller

[stalkerforlife]

We are gonna act like Reggie Miller didn't choke his ass off in both the 1994 ECF and the 1998 ECF? Give me a break kid. Great player, likeable guy and does good work for TNT, but Ray Allen has made some of the most clutch shots ever, including obviously the the game 6 shot. He is the all time 3 point leading scorer in less seasons too.

We are gonna act like Reggie Miller didn't take the alpha way, the road less traveled, and put that onus on himself? "Give me a break, kid."

Reggie didn't ride coattails, "kid." Ray Allen is who you think he is because of the enormous talent he played with.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It's not even close. Ray Allen had a chance to get remembered as a great Celtic but ruined that by betraying his teammates which knocked him down even more in the rankings.
lol you probably never even saw Ray on the Sonics or the Bucks :facepalm

[knicksman]

miller is even better than robertson

[russwest0]

Yeah, no one will remember that 3 he hit in Game 6. Making arguably the most important shot in league history definitely drops him down in the rankings

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

keep crying bitch

[CJ Mustard]

Prime Ray is easily better than any version of Reggie. Reggie had more longevity and a more memorable career though.

[Warfan]

Why don't yall actually compare them as players instead of

'oh he left like a beta ring chaser, reggie's better because he stayed with his team and he's alpha'...

[SouBeachTalents]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

keep crying bitch

I guess truth=crying to this guy

[stalkerforlife]

Why don't yall actually compare them as players instead of

'oh he left like a beta ring chaser, reggie's better because he stayed with his team and he's alpha'...

Why, have your favorite players jumped ship and ring chased?

Sorry, we can't conform our arguments to your insecurities.

Whether you admit it or not, staying with one team your entire career, through thick and thin, says a lot about you. It also plays a role in assessing your greatness.

[AintNoSunshine]

:roll: I like Reggie Miller but Fukk NO. Ray Allen's better in almost every aspect. Reggie's known for his clutchness and constant movement off the ball, guess what, Ray's just as legendary in addition to being much better with the ball. Those who haven't watched Ray in his younger days can STFU.

[JohnFreeman]

Prime Ray Allen is everything a Shooting guard should be

[To4]

As a player...

Allen > Miller..

As being popular and most memorable.

Miller >>>> Allen..

[SouBeachTalents]

Why, have your favorite players jumped ship and ring chased?

Sorry, we can't conform our arguments to your insecurities.

Whether you admit it or not, staying with one team your entire career, through thick and thin, says a lot about you. It also plays a role in assessing your greatness.

I seriously don't get this mindset. Why should all time greats like Magic and Bird not be criticized for playing with good teammates like Kareem/Worthy and McHale/Parish, yet LeBron gets crucified for simply joining Wade/Bosh instead of all of them being drafted together

[atljonesbro]

Allen's game 6 finals shot is FARRRRR better than any shot Miller ever made. FAR more clutch as well. Miller just can't match it.

[TheReal Kendall]

http://media.giphy.com/media/p6S5VqvdVr3JS/giphy.gif

[SouBeachTalents]

Allen's game 6 finals shot is FARRRRR better than any shot Miller ever made. FAR more clutch as well. Miller just can't match it.

But according to other people on this board, since he "ring chased" that shot actually DROPS him in the all time rankings

[Derka]

F*ck that noise.

Prime Ray with the Bucks/Sonics and his first two years with the Celtics was damn near THE perfect shooting guard.

Don't get me wrong, Reggie made some big shots and made his bones shitting on the Knicks in the playoffs...but Ray is Jesus.

[jaybee682]

I agree. Reggie had sooo many battles. Clutch as hell. Ray Allen is pretty clutch to, but Miller had the balls of a gorilla. He was as fearless as MJ.

[#number6ix#]

Prime Ray would wipe the floor with prime reggie... Better handle, finisher, equal or better shooter from everywhere on the court, just as clutch if not more clutch...

[pauk]

Also one thing which Ray didnt have or was as good at was mental toughness/warfare, infact Reggie depended on it more than any other player i ever heard of in order to perform, hence he loved to be hated and begged for it everywhere, the more pressure the better he would perform.... infact his pre-game routine consisted of having a guy from the staff give him a drink and then proceed to say something to him (insults of all sorts) under the guise of firing him up and Reggie would then respond with some words of his own up close and personal, then continue to do that to players entire game while going ham.....

How does this affect a game? Well, if he gets under the skin of a player/players/team (which he always did more or less and always came out on top in that department) that player will have a tendency to choke or snap at him putting that games outcome at risk for his team.... He would even make you think about him after the game, he would like hit a gamewinner and then walk up to even Jordan like: "Nice 40 points tho...." staring him down and backing away..... he was not as good as Jordan that game for example or as good as Jordan at all ofcourse, but Reggie of all the people in the NBA was the only guy to ever get under Jordans skin anytime Reggie felt like it and that might cause Jordan to even choke against him....

There is just some impactful intangibles like that which stats cant measure.... and Ray Allen couldnt impact games that way...

While Reggie was perhaps the GOAT at that.... he was a pure shooting killer instinct assassin douchebag and thats why i loved him lol
off the court he is like the complete opposite tho, seeing him on TV broadcasting all kind, humble n stuff... ew! :P

[Roundball_Rock]

Miller did not have to leave because the Pacers were perennial contenders. From 1994-2000 they made 5 ECF's and the Finals in 2000. Granted, they were irrelevant before that but he did not need to "leave" to chase a ring when he had that kind of team around him. Even in his final season they were in the ECF again.

[Jameerthefear]

As a player...

Allen > Miller..

As being popular and most memorable.

Miller >>>> Allen..
how? how is he more memorable? allen will be more remembered i bet.

[Jameerthefear]

also allen>miller no doubt.

[stalkerforlife]

Also one thing which Ray didnt have or was as good at was mental toughness/warfare, infact Reggie depended on it more than any other player i ever heard of in order to perform, hence he loved to be hated and begged for it everywhere, the more pressure the better he would perform.... infact his pre-game routine consisted of having a guy from the staff give him a drink and then proceed to say something to him (insults of all sorts) under the guise of firing him up and Reggie would then respond with some words of his own up close and personal, then continue to do that to players entire game while going ham.....

How does this affect a game? Well, if he gets under the skin of a player/players/team (which he always did more or less and always came out on top in that department) that player will have a tendency to choke or snap at him putting that games outcome at risk for his team.... He would do stuff like hit a gamewinner and then walk up to Jordan like: "Nice 40 points tho...." he was not as good as Jordan that game for example or as good as Jordan at all ofcourse, but Reggie of all the people in the NBA was the only guy to ever get under Jordans skin anytime Reggie felt like it and that might cause Jordan to even choke against him....

There is just some impactful intangibles like that which stats cant measure.... and Ray Allen couldnt impact games that way...

While Reggie was perhaps the GOAT at that.... he was a pure shooting killer instinct assassin douchebag and thats why i loved him lol
off the court he is like the complete opposite tho, seeing him on TV broadcasting all kind, humble n stuff... ew! :P

Legendary stuff, Pauk. :applause:

[SpecialQue]

Also one thing which Ray didnt have or was as good at was mental toughness/warfare, infact Reggie depended on it more than any other player i ever heard of in order to perform, hence he loved to be hated and begged for it everywhere, the more pressure the better he would perform.... infact his pre-game routine consisted of having a guy from the staff give him a drink and then proceed to say something to him (insults of all sorts) under the guise of firing him up and Reggie would then respond with some words of his own up close and personal, then continue to do that to players entire game while going ham.....

How does this affect a game? Well, if he gets under the skin of a player/players/team (which he always did more or less and always came out on top in that department) that player will have a tendency to choke or snap at him putting that games outcome at risk for his team.... He would even make you think about him after the game, like when he would hit a gamewinner and then walk up to Jordan like: "Nice 40 points tho...." staring him down and backing away..... he was not as good as Jordan that game for example or as good as Jordan at all ofcourse, but Reggie of all the people in the NBA was the only guy to ever get under Jordans skin anytime Reggie felt like it and that might cause Jordan to even choke against him....

There is just some impactful intangibles like that which stats cant measure.... and Ray Allen couldnt impact games that way...

While Reggie was perhaps the GOAT at that.... he was a pure shooting killer instinct assassin douchebag and thats why i loved him lol
off the court he is like the complete opposite tho, seeing him on TV broadcasting all kind, humble n stuff... ew! :P

Good shit there. :applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

how? how is he more memorable? allen will be more remembered i bet.
Miller's shenanigans with Spike Lee were pretty memorable if you watched back in those days. Knicks/Pacers were a great rivalry. Reggie's 7 pts in 16 seconds was great too... but still not as memorable as Ray Allen's shot in 2013

[Warfan]

Why, have your favorite players jumped ship and ring chased?

Sorry, we can't conform our arguments to your insecurities.

Whether you admit it or not, staying with one team your entire career, through thick and thin, says a lot about you. It also plays a role in assessing your greatness.

No at all Budadiiii. If you can only form an argument with he's a beta and he's an alpha then there's no point in taking you seriously.

How's that proactiv going btw??

[houston]

Yeah, ok. Reggie Miller is one of the most overrated players EVER. Guy was nothing more than a solid all star who hit a few big shots


:bowdown:

[Pointguard]

Reggie Miller really couldn't go to another team because other teams were not likely to use all their offensive resources to get him open. Reggie knew this. Reggie without two good pick setters was a complete waste. He could not get his own shot off. With that said he was gutsy, clutch and loved rubbing a win in the opponents face. He truly got under the opponents skin.

But he was not the shooter Ray was. Wasn't creative. His driving ability was a lot worse. Wasn't in the same hemisphere in shooting off the move.

[AintNoSunshine]

Also one thing which Ray didnt have or was as good at was mental toughness/warfare, infact Reggie depended on it more than any other player i ever heard of in order to perform, hence he loved to be hated and begged for it everywhere, the more pressure the better he would perform.... infact his pre-game routine consisted of having a guy from the staff give him a drink and then proceed to say something to him (insults of all sorts) under the guise of firing him up and Reggie would then respond with some words of his own up close and personal, then continue to do that to players entire game while going ham.....

How does this affect a game? Well, if he gets under the skin of a player/players/team (which he always did more or less and always came out on top in that department) that player will have a tendency to choke or snap at him putting that games outcome at risk for his team.... He would even make you think about him after the game, he would like hit a gamewinner and then walk up to even Jordan like: "Nice 40 points tho...." staring him down and backing away..... he was not as good as Jordan that game for example or as good as Jordan at all ofcourse, but Reggie of all the people in the NBA was the only guy to ever get under Jordans skin anytime Reggie felt like it and that might cause Jordan to even choke against him....

There is just some impactful intangibles like that which stats cant measure.... and Ray Allen couldnt impact games that way...

While Reggie was perhaps the GOAT at that.... he was a pure shooting killer instinct assassin douchebag and thats why i loved him lol
off the court he is like the complete opposite tho, seeing him on TV broadcasting all kind, humble n stuff... ew! :P


Good job pal, made me stop reading after the first sentence. Ray Allen has ice water running in his vein, always so composed and confidence. He's got a very different personality than Miller but he's just as mentally tough if not more than Miller. You don't make the kind of shots he's made if you aren't mentally extremely tough.:facepalm I know you're a fan, but don't spew shiit like this man.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Good job pal, made me stop reading after the first sentence. Ray Allen has ice water running in his vein, always so composed and confidence. He's got a very different personality than Miller but he's just as mentally tough if not more than Miller. You don't make the kind of shots he's made if you aren't mentally extremely tough.:facepalm I know you're a fan, but don't spew shiit like this man.
"get them motha ****ing ropes outta here" :applause: :applause:

[allball]

prime years

scoring - Ray
ballhandling - Ray
pull up shooting - Ray
catch and shoot - equal
on ball defense - Ray
help defense - equal
passing - equal
team play - Miller
leadership - equal

[pauk]

Good job pal, made me stop reading after the first sentence. Ray Allen has ice water running in his vein, always so composed and confidence. He's got a very different personality than Miller but he's just as mentally tough if not more than Miller. You don't make the kind of shots he's made if you aren't mentally extremely tough.:facepalm I know you're a fan, but don't spew shiit like this man.

Ray Allen was/is mentally tough under pressure, ofcourse.... but i mean he was/is not able to test other players mental toughness, he wasnt able to inflict mental damage upon anybody and not nearly as much, that there is a gift..... :)

[GrapeApe]

Ray Allen was a better player than Reggie Miller. Reggie Miller HIMSELF would likely say the same. Why is Reggie Miller so overrated? He's the second best basketball player in his own family.

[Milbuck]

Bucks/Sonics Ray Allen was the prototypical shooting guard, just the perfect model for that position. Once you get past all of Reggie's trash talking, antics, and memorable incidents, he's really not a better overall basketball player than Ray at his best. He's been playing a supporting role for a while now, but for a 10 year stretch he put up 22/5/4/1 on 57% TS with the Bucks and Sonics. More specifically, I'd take 2004-2006 peak Ray over any version of Reggie.

One was the more memorable, clutcher player. The other was just the overall better basketball player.

[SouBeachTalents]

Ray Allen was a better player than Reggie Miller. Reggie Miller HIMSELF would likely say the same. Why is Reggie Miller so overrated? He's the second best basketball player in his own family.

Ouch

[pauk]

Did you see Ray Allen match up against Reggie, especially in playoffs? He would toy with the fella and he was in his mid 30s.... Ray Allen later did admit he was gona study Reggie's moves/tricks, meaning moving without the ball/screen abusing/how to get open..... Ray was able to do that before ofcourse but did you know Reggie was the best ever at that? He had a whole bag of tricks of the ball, Its a completely lost art nowadays.... combined with that and his marathon running endurance, flopping and trashtalking he was the most exhausting & annoying player anybody ever had to guard.... ask Kobe Bryant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKCxkJTFrU

[rhowen4]

reggie would have been a celtic in 2008 if his body gave him the okay

[stalkerforlife]

Reggie Miller vs Ray Allen head to head...

25 games. Reggie with 15 wins. Allen with 10 wins.

Reggie Miller stats - 20.5ppg, 2.2rpg, 2.5apg, 47.3%, 39.3%, 91.3%.

Ray Allen stats - 18.0ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.6apg, 42.1%, 38.3%, 85.3%.

What's up?

[Boston C's]

Reggie Miller vs Ray Allen head to head...

25 games. Reggie with 15 wins. Allen with 10 wins.

Reggie Miller stats - 20.5ppg, 2.2rpg, 2.5apg, 47.3%, 39.3%, 91.3%.

Ray Allen stats - 18.0ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.6apg, 42.1%, 38.3%, 85.3%.

What's up?

Idk you tell me...you act like those stats are significantly better... reggie put up better points while ray rebounded and passed better

your argument is absolute bullshit too btw you argue that basically reggie is better because he stayed on one team...**** it why don't we just say reggie is better then shaq too while were at it :facepalm

you obviously haven't seen a prime ray allen...dude was a much better overall player then reggie IMO could score,rebound, and pass better then reggie...ray literally did everything reggie did and then some

also ray didnt collude in 2008 dude was traded from seattle and was damn pissed that he was traded in the first place...ray wanted to mentor durant and retire in seattle but he was sent to boston which in turn actually made k.g want to be a celtic since he wasn't interested before hand

if you wanna say reggie is better then ray because of "intangibles" then go ahead because thats basically the only argument you have because ray is literally better at everything else...reggie was a great player in his own right but just not better then allen period

and like most ppl mentioned rays clutch as hell too so your intangibles arugment isn't even that strong there

[Killbot]

reggie would have been a celtic in 2008 if his body gave him the okay

In fact Ray tried to recruit Reggie to the Celtics. Think about the goddamn shooting. :bowdown:


Reggie Miller vs Ray Allen head to head...

25 games. Reggie with 15 wins. Allen with 10 wins.

Reggie Miller stats - 20.5ppg, 2.2rpg, 2.5apg, 47.3%, 39.3%, 91.3%.

Ray Allen stats - 18.0ppg, 3.7rpg, 3.6apg, 42.1%, 38.3%, 85.3%.

What's up?

It all comes down to experience

[Kblaze8855]

Fairly telling when the defense of a statement doesn't mention one basketball skill.

The only thing even slightly basketball related brought up is shooting percentages when Reggie was shooting 13-15 times in his prime and Ray 17-21.

Ray was asked to do much more than Reggie. And for good reason. He was capable of more. Reggie Miller could barely bring the ball up the floor vs a pressing defense, you would struggle to find much footage of him passing well off the dribble, and he wasn't near the athlete Ray was.

There isn't much comparison between the two ability wise.

Reggie has dramatic moments as he went on to lose usually going down without much fight.

Ray has been as clutch a shooter as has ever lived. And hes likely outscored Reggie off the ball and blows him away with it.

And those are the only things Reggie has to use against most matchups.

Against Ray he has virtually nothing. His strengths are the same as Ray....Ray just has a lot more skills to go with them.

[Teanett]

bullshit thread.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Ray is better

[Reggie43]

Fairly telling when the defense of a statement doesn't mention one basketball skill.

The only thing even slightly basketball related brought up is shooting percentages when Reggie was shooting 13-15 times in his prime and Ray 17-21.

Ray was asked to do much more than Reggie. And for good reason. He was capable of more. Reggie Miller could barely bring the ball up the floor vs a pressing defense, you would struggle to find much footage of him passing well off the dribble, and he wasn't near the athlete Ray was.

There isn't much comparison between the two ability wise.

Reggie has dramatic moments as he went on to lose usually going down without much fight.

Ray has been as clutch a shooter as has ever lived. And hes likely outscored Reggie off the ball and blows him away with it.

And those are the only things Reggie has to use against most matchups.

Against Ray he has virtually nothing. His strengths are the same as Ray....Ray just has a lot more skills to go with them.

With all the skills/ability that Ray has explain to me how Miller was able to outplay him then head to head regular season and playoffs?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

With all the skills/ability that Ray has explain to me how Miller was able to outplay him then head to head regular season and playoffs?

This means nothing. Deron Williams outplays CP3 head-to-head, Melo outplays Durant. Just relying on head-to-head results to determine who the better player is is idiotic.

[GimmeThat]

Reggie to me is more of a dynamic player to Ray Allen.

Ray Allen to me is someone who has great handling skills as well as shooting abilities that fits the guard role well.

Reggie is someone whose ability to "create" off the ball that makes him unique.


Rip Hamilton is probably the combination of a little bit of the both.


I don't know how valuable it is to have someone you don't have to create a screen for and he finds a way to get open.

But that's probably a PGs dream

While Ray is clearly a coaches dream because if you know you draw him up a play that can be executed. You've got one of the best 3 point shooter in history taking that shot.

[Reggie43]

This means nothing. Deron Williams outplays CP3 head-to-head, Melo outplays Durant. Just relying on head-to-head results to determine who the better player is is idiotic.

Is it idiotic if those players possess virtually the same stats? Would Barkley outplaying Malone head to head in determining the better power forward in their primes mean nothing to you? Those examples you gave were more of an aberration, usually the better players outplays the other.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Is it idiotic if those players possess virtually the same stats? Would Barkley outplaying Malone head to head in determining the better power forward in their primes mean nothing to you? Those examples you gave were more of an aberration, usually the better players outplays the other.

No they aren't an aberration. Worse players outplay better players head-to-head fairly often...

[ZaaaaaH]

Did you see Ray Allen match up against Reggie, especially in playoffs? He would toy with the fella and he was in his mid 30s.... Ray Allen later did admit he was gona study Reggie's moves/tricks, meaning moving without the ball/screen abusing/how to get open..... Ray was able to do that before ofcourse but did you know Reggie was the best ever at that? He had a whole bag of tricks of the ball, Its a completely lost art nowadays.... combined with that and his marathon running endurance, flopping and trashtalking he was the most exhausting & annoying player anybody ever had to guard.... ask Kobe Bryant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mKCxkJTFrU


All these Years you talk non sense but all of sudden just to back up your argument you use Kobe Bryant, the Person you hate the most to support your argument. :facepalm

You are fucccken Comical bra :lol

Im pretty dam sure you are one of the LeBron Trolls saying, LeBron has been better then Kobe since his Rookie year but guess what LBJ said during his interview 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv37ykpYk84

Dam Troll ~ sit down and never post again

[Reggie43]

Fairly often? Give me examples then, aside from deron/paul and durant/melo whose matchups were probably determined by the strength advantage one player has over another

[Nowitness]

Also he needed 200 screens Per Game to score 20. Like Simmons said he wasn't a superstar, he made like zero all-nba teams (1/2).

[Reggie43]

This debate has really become an annual thing on ISH. We could just link to those past threads and save everyone the time typing each others arguments :D

As I said before in past threads this argument is basically a wash and it boils down to what skills/ traits do you value more in a player? Miller's leadership, efficiency and intangibles or Allen's offensive versatility, athleticism and ballhandling.

[BoutPractice]

I like them both, but Ray Allen is quite underrated and Reggie Miller definitely overrated.

As others have mentioned in this thread, Ray Allen was both more well-rounded than Reggie and performed just as well in the same areas of specialty.

Whatever you choose to track, from resume to peak level of play, Ray Allen will come out on top.

As for anyone who uses the "clutch" argument AGAINST Ray Allen in a player comparison, well... that's just not very convincing.

[Reggie43]

Peak level of play

Reggie 1989-90 24.6 ppg .514 fg% .414 3p% .868 ft% 3.6rpg 3.8apg 1.3spg

Ray 2006-07 26.4 ppg .438 fg% .378 3p% .903 ft% 4.5rpg 4.1apg 1.5spg

[SouBeachTalents]

Peak level of play

Reggie 1989-90 24.6 ppg .514 fg% .414 3p% .868 ft% 3.6rpg 3.8apg 1.3spg

Ray 2006-07 26.4 ppg .438 fg% .378 3p% .903 ft% 4.5rpg 4.1apg 1.5spg

You DEFINITELY don't have a bias in this argument

[Reggie43]

You DEFINITELY don't have a bias in this argument

Stats dont lie bro, give me a better Ray Allen statistical season then.

[Just2McFly]

Peak level of play

Reggie 1989-90 24.6 ppg .514 fg% .414 3p% .868 ft% 3.6rpg 3.8apg 1.3spg

Ray 2006-07 26.4 ppg .438 fg% .378 3p% .903 ft% 4.5rpg 4.1apg 1.5spg

put ray allen in late eighties where kiki vandeweghe was dropping 30 a game and ray ray will straight up rape

[Fork]

Allen > Miller

[BoutPractice]

If you're going to look at pure boxscore stats, peak Reggie Miller has a 21 PER and Ray Allen 23, with Allen playing a bigger, more diversified role (as evidenced by greater usage and assist rate, also in slightly more minutes per game).

To me the best Ray Allen was in Milwaukee, not Seattle.

[Reggie43]

put ray allen in late eighties where kiki vandeweghe was dropping 30 a game and ray ray will straight up rape

Put Reggie Miller in the mid 2000s where rule changes curtailed handchecking enabling a scrub like Mike James to drop 20 a game and Reggie will straight up rape.

[Reggie43]

If you're going to look at pure boxscore stats, peak Reggie Miller has a 21 PER and Ray Allen 23, with Allen playing a bigger, more diversified role (as evidenced by greater usage and assist rate, also in slightly more minutes per game).

To me the best Ray Allen was in Milwaukee, not Seattle.

Agreed with the bolded, its just that some fans prefer Sonics Ray so I went with those stats.

[GimmeThat]

I'm just going to say Allen because he had a better rookie season.

As for why does a rookie season matters?


ethers