Why in the world did Bron win the ROY award over Melo?

[stalkerforlife]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:

[Real14]

Preach it bruh! Preach it!:applause:

[AnaheimLakers24]

bspn hype. bran never been good. all stats

[SouBeachTalents]

:sleeping

[Droid101]

No idea really. ESPN bias most likely.

[Smook A.]

Carmelo was robbed. He was the better player in their rookie year and his team made the playoffs... LeBron's didnt. Still don't know how he didn't win it.

[Black and White]

ESPNs golden boy, why else?

[Fiddlesticks]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:
NBA is rigged

[NumberSix]

Does anybody actually give a fυck about the rookie of the year award?

[Real14]

Does anybody actually give a fυck about the rookie of the year award?
Tha saltyness has officially arrived:oldlol:

[stalkerforlife]

Preach it bruh! Preach it!:applause:

Makes me wonder if Stern and the media chose Bron over Melo as some sort of planned conspiracy. The refs allow Bron to do whatever he wants on the court when compared to Melo. Bron barrels over opponents and that's acceptable, where as it seems the refs don't allow Melo the same allowances.

[JohnFreeman]

Melo is still the best scorer in the game

[Real14]

Melo is still the best scorer in the game
:applause:

[Black and White]

Melo is still the most dangerous scorer in the game

fixed

[stalkerforlife]

Does anybody actually give a fυck about the rookie of the year award?

Um, yes. It is a great accomplishment and can add to a legacy.

Your boy was gifted an accolade he clearly didn't deserve.

[Real14]

Makes me wonder if Stern and the media chose Bron over Melo as some sort of planned conspiracy. The refs allow Bron to do whatever he wants on the court when compared to Melo. Bron barrels over opponents and that's acceptable, where as it seems the refs don't allow Melo the same allowances.
yep just like 2012 playoffs, and 2013 2nd round vs IND. You remember how rigged them two series were?:facepalm :facepalm

[kamil]

Um, yes. It is a great accomplishment and can add to a legacy.

Your boy was gifted an accolade he clearly didn't deserve.

LeBrons* never EARNED anything in his NBA career. This dude is all glory without putting in the work.

LeShortcut James.

[stalkerforlife]

LeBrons* never EARNED anything in his NBA career. This dude is all glory without putting in the work.

LeShortcut James.

I won't argue that too much.

[Dave3]

1. People were considering the fact that one of them came directly from high school, which gave him an advantage considering how a few previous high school players didn't quite work out so people had lower expectations for those types of players. Amar'e was the best one at 13 ppg.

2. Team success was negligible to people watching the games because

a) it's a ROY award not MVP award
b) Cleveland was clearly dysfunctional between Darius Miles and Ricky Davis fighting for the ball in late game scenarios and keeping the ball away from LeBron because they wanted to shoot it themselves (despite the fact that him having the ball in his hands didn't exclude that from any possibilities). Denver had a real point guard in Andre Miller who was coming off leading the league in assists, and veterans like Leonard, Camby and Boykins, which makes a big difference to a rookie.

3. All the stats you posted proved nothing other than that area was pretty even, with the only distinct advantage being assists for LeBron. He was the more impressive rookie because he was an all around player that while being 18/19 was already the team's best player, and was doing everything for them. An all around player putting up the same ppg as a "pure scorer" means the advantage goes to the all around player.

Mind you despite all this I do think it was a very even race, but to act like one player clearly deserved it over another is ridiculous.

[JT123]

Bron was just a kid, while Melo was a fully developed man. When taken into context what Lebron did was more impressive.

[Marchesk]

Bron was just a kid, while Melo was a fully developed man. When taken into context what Lebron did was more impressive.

That shouldn't be taken into context though. Performance is all that matters, not age or whether they came straight out of high school.

[sportjames23]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:


Bron was hyped by the media since high school. No way he wasn't gonna win ROY. If anything, Melo should have gotten Co-ROY with Bron.

[Black and White]

1. People were considering the fact that one of them came directly from high school, which gave him an advantage considering how a few previous high school players didn't quite work out so people had lower expectations for those types of players. Amar'e was the best one at 13 ppg.

2. Team success was negligible to people watching the games because

a) it's a ROY award not MVP award
b) Cleveland was clearly dysfunctional between Darius Miles and Ricky Davis fighting for the ball in late game scenarios and keeping the ball away from LeBron because they wanted to shoot it themselves (despite the fact that him having the ball in his hands didn't exclude that from any possibilities). Denver had a real point guard in Andre Miller who was coming off leading the league in assists, and veterans like Leonard, Camby and Boykins, which makes a big difference to a rookie.

3. All the stats you posted proved nothing other than that area was pretty even, with the only distinct advantage being assists for LeBron. He was the more impressive rookie because he was an all around player that while being 18/19 was already the team's best player, and was doing everything for them. An all around player putting up the same ppg as a "pure scorer" means the advantage goes to the all around player.

Mind you despite all this I do think it was a very even race, but to act like one player clearly deserved it over another is ridiculous.

How is that even a factor when its about that season in particular?

[russwest0]

Because ESPN.

[stalkerforlife]

Melo played one season of college basketball, a season in which he dominated all the way to a national title. Melo is like 6 months older than Bron.

Not only was Melo the better rookie, but what he did to the college game as a freshman champion is more impressive than Bron's rookie year.

Horrible trying to use age as an argument. Laughable.

[plowking]

I've always maintained that Carmelo should have won it.

It's funny to see the same guys in here arguing against Bron, no matter what the thread is. Droid and Black and White of course have already posted in here slighting Lebron. What else is new?

[russwest0]

I've always maintained that Carmelo should have won it.

It's funny to see the same guys in here arguing against Bron, no matter what the thread is. Droid and Black and White of course have already posted in here slighting Lebron. What else is new?

So you agree with them yet use this thread as a chance to criticism them.

wat

[Black and White]

I've always maintained that Carmelo should have won it.

It's funny to see the same guys in here arguing against Bron, no matter what the thread is. Droid and Black and White of course have already posted in here slighting Lebron. What else is new?

What exactly did I say that was wrong? There is nothing here that suggests LeBron should have won it, end of story.

[Dave3]

How is that even a factor when its about that season in particular?
Because it's rookie of the year, not the best player only. To many voters, they're judging not only based on pure performance, but impressiveness. It's more impressive if you're playing just as well as the other guy, but you;re doing it straight out of high school while the other guy is coming off a championship season at the collegiate level.

The last few high school players were Amar'e, Kwame Brown, Jonathan Bender, as well as Kobe/Garnett/Tmac. The expectation for a good high school player in the NBA was like 8-10 ppg. The fact that LeBron doubled that was ridiculous for the time, and in the meantime Melo didn't do anything dramatic enough to separate himself from James.

[Droid101]

So you agree with them yet use this thread as a chance to criticism them.

wat
Seriously, wtf?

I never said bran shouldn't have gotten the MVP's he got (the far more important reward). I said bran shouldn't have gotten rookie of the year, which most unbiased fans (even plowqueen herself) agree with.

Why the hate broseph?

[NumberSix]

What exactly did I say that was wrong? There is nothing here that suggests LeBron should have won it, end of story.
Look at the rosters each player had to work with. That Denver team was actually pretty decent. Andre Miller, Birdman, Jon Barry, Marcus Camby, NeNe....

[sportjames23]

Bron was just a kid, while Melo was a fully developed man. When taken into context what Lebron did was more impressive.

Melo spent one year in college. He's barely older than Bron (Melo born in May 1984, Bron born in December 1984).

GTFO with that, my dude.

[crawdaddy4ou]

Bran is an Espn manufactured superstar. Nothing else. Anyone that has watched ball the last twenty years knows it.

[Black and White]

Because it's rookie of the year, not the best player only. To many voters, they're judging not only based on pure performance, but impressiveness. It's more impressive if you're playing just as well as the other guy, but you;re doing it straight out of high school while the other guy is coming off a championship season at the collegiate level.

The last few high school players were Amar'e, Kwame Brown, Jonathan Bender, as well as Kobe/Garnett/Tmac. The expectation for a good high school player in the NBA was like 8-10 ppg. The fact that LeBron doubled that was ridiculous for the time, and in the meantime Melo didn't do anything dramatic enough to separate himself from James.

Sure if you are looking at it from that perspective then you could make a case, don't get me wrong, LeBron has turned out the much better player, but in terms of ROY we just look at that year alone and their production for that year. See my point?

I guess we are looking at it from two different perspectives, but I don't think where they come from should matter.

[NumberSix]

Sure if you are looking at it from that perspective then you could make a case, don't get me wrong, LeBron has turned out the much better player, but in terms of ROY we just look at that year alone and their production for that year. See my point?

I guess we are looking at it from two different perspectives, but I don't think where they come from should matter.
Here, lemme pull your hypocrite card really quick.

You keep going on about strictly production. Ok. Tell me this. Who should have won the MVP in 2011?

[Black and White]

Here, lemme pull your hypocrite card really quick.

You keep going on about strictly production. Ok. Tell me this. Who should have won the MVP in 2011?

LeBron James, I don't get how that makes me a hypocrite?

[Dave3]

Sure if you are looking at it from that perspective then you could make a case, don't get me wrong, LeBron has turned out the much better player, but in terms of ROY we just look at that year alone and their production for that year. See my point?

I guess we are looking at it from two different perspectives, but I don't think where they come from should matter.
Except their production for that year was identical if not slightly advantaged towards LeBron. You're talking as if Melo clearly out produced him when he actually didn't. LeBron had the slight advantage in stats, the bigger advantage in importance to team and versatility, and the disadvantage of not making the playoffs (albeit with a worse and more dysfunctional cast). Even assuming both came out of the exact same scenario it's pretty even.

The fact that where they were coming from was so different was what probably put LeBron over the top.

[NumberSix]

LeBron James, I don't get how that makes me a hypocrite?
Now, you're sure that I won't find older posts of you claiming that "Rose deserved it"?

[Black and White]

Except their production for that year was identical if not slightly advantaged towards LeBron. You're talking as if Melo clearly out produced him when he actually didn't. LeBron had the slight advantage in stats, the bigger advantage in importance to team and versatility, and the disadvantage of not making the playoffs (albeit with a worse and more dysfunctional cast). Even assuming both came out of the exact same scenario it's pretty even.

The fact that where they were coming from was so different was what probably put LeBron over the top.

Or maybe hype played a factor? :confusedshrug: I'm just speculating there, Melo had the slight advantage in stats (more ppg, more rpg, better efficiency)

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)


Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:

I've wondered this for years.

[Black and White]

Now, you're sure that I won't find older posts of you claiming that "Rose deserved it"?

I don't remember saying that? I have debated with NathanJizzle before as to why Rose won it.

If I said it then I was trolling Heat fans.

[stalkerforlife]

Except their production for that year was identical if not slightly advantaged towards LeBron. You're talking as if Melo clearly out produced him when he actually didn't. LeBron had the slight advantage in stats, the bigger advantage in importance to team and versatility, and the disadvantage of not making the playoffs (albeit with a worse and more dysfunctional cast). Even assuming both came out of the exact same scenario it's pretty even.

The fact that where they were coming from was so different was what probably put LeBron over the top.

:biggums:

[NumberSix]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.
Soooooooo.... This idiot is basically saying melo's extra half a rebound had greater impact than LeBron 3 extra assists?

[stalkerforlife]

Soooooooo.... This idiot is basically saying melo's extra half a rebound had greater impact than LeBron 3 extra assists?

Better shooting numbers across the board? :biggums:

[Dave3]

Or maybe hype played a factor? :confusedshrug: I'm just speculating there, Melo had the slight advantage in stats (more ppg, more rpg, better efficiency)
Melo definitely didn't have the slight advantage in stats...Wtf dude? you're counting a 0.1 ppg difference as an advantage and ignoring a 3 apg difference? Could you be anymore biased?

Head to head the points were even, rebounds, TOs and shooting percentage were a slight advantage to Melo, assists was a significant advantage to LeBron, and steals/block were a slight advantage to LeBron.

If you consider them all together, LeBron had the slightly higher PER. Again, the stats/production are very clearly even if not slightly for LeBron. I don't know why you keep repeating Melo had the advantage...

As for the hype, I never denied it played a part. I'm just not going to claim that it was the only factor like you guys seem to think so. It's not like a 16/4/4 player won it over a 20/6/6 player. This is a 21/6/6 player winning it over a 21/6/3 player.

[Dave3]

:biggums:
See above. Though I don't think I'm going to be spending too much time trying to discuss anything you specifically. If you disagree so be it, I'm not wasting my time on trolls.

[NumberSix]

Better shooting numbers across the board? :biggums:
Yeah, he was a slightly better shooter.

No matter how you slice it, LeBron's 3 extra assists are worth more than Melo's half a rebound and shooting 1% better.

[tmacattack33]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:


I didn't read the responses to this, so I'm sure what I say below has already been said, but anyway...

1. In what world is 21 pts, 6 reb, and 3 assists on 42.5 FG% better than 21 pts, 5.5 rebounds, and 6 assists per game on 41.7 FG% ?

LOL.



2. Denver did not just add Melo.

They also added in a whole new starting backcourt. Andre Miller and Voshon Leonard were not there in 2003. Andre Miller had a great year in 2004 and was a borderline all-star.

Furthermore, their starting Center, Marcus Camby hardly played in 2003.

Further furthermore, their sixth man in 2004, Earl Boykins was not there in 2003.

Further further furthermore, their seventh man in 2004 (Jon Barry) was not there in 2003.

In conclusion, the whole team besides Nene Hilario was different, and I see you did absolutely no research before posting this thread and I believe you should be banned from making threads until you can step your game up.

I would also like to introduce you to basketballreference.com, so you can do some research and avoid making such a baseless comment in the future.

[stalkerforlife]

Yeah, he was a slightly better shooter.

No matter how you slice it, LeBron's 3 extra assists are worth more than Melo's half a rebound and shooting 1% better.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Cue the "he didn't have help" excuses. It never get old. :roll:

[Black and White]

Melo definitely didn't have the slight advantage in stats...Wtf dude? you're counting a 0.1 ppg difference as an advantage and ignoring a 3 apg difference? Could you be anymore biased?

Head to head the points were even, rebounds, TOs and shooting percentage were a slight advantage to Melo, assists was a significant advantage to LeBron, and steals/block were a slight advantage to LeBron.

If you consider them all together, LeBron had the slightly higher PER. Again, the stats/production are very clearly even if not slightly for LeBron. I don't know why you keep repeating Melo had the advantage...

As for the hype, I never denied it played a part. I'm just not going to claim that it was the only factor like you guys seem to think so. It's not like a 16/4/4 player won it over a 20/6/6 player. This is a 21/6/6 player winning it over a 21/6/3 player.

I see your point about the assists, but thats the only stat that LeBron has over him, once you factor in team records, it favours Melo.

I'm just trying to take away the high school argument, I don't think it really matters.

[stalkerforlife]

1. In what world is 21 pts, 6 reb, and 3 assists on 42.5 FG% better than 21 pts, 5.5 rebounds, and 6 assists per game on 41.7 FG% ?

LOL.



2. Denver did not just add Melo.

They also added in a whole new starting backcourt. Andre Miller and Voshon Leonard were not there in 2003. Andre Miller had a great year in 2004 and was a borderline all-star.

Furthermore, their starting Center, Marcus Camby hardly played in 2003.

Further furthermore, their sixth man in 2004, Earl Boykins was not there in 2003.

Further further furthermore, their seventh man in 2004 (Jon Barry) was not there in 2003.

In conclusion, the whole team besides Nene Hilario was different, and I see you did absolutely no research before posting this thread and I believe you should be banned from making threads until you can step your game up.

I would also like to introduce you to basketballreference.com, so you can do some research and avoid making such a baseless comment in the future.

How does Bran's ass taste? :roll:

[NumberSix]

I see your point about the assists, but thats the only stat that LeBron has over him, once you factor in team records, it favours Melo.

I'm just trying to take away the high school argument, I don't think it really matters.
Why would you?

We're comparing which player was better. Not which team was better.

[Shep]

James was clearly the Rookie of the Year.

Anthony was Denver's third best player in the regular season. The main reason that Denver improved so much was the acquisition of Andre Miller and full season of play from Marcus Camby.

[plowking]

What exactly did I say that was wrong? There is nothing here that suggests LeBron should have won it, end of story.

Other than the fact he actually won it? :oldlol:


So you agree with them yet use this thread as a chance to criticism them.

wat

You clearly missed the point. Whatever the thread about Bron, they will be in there posting negatively about him. They act as if they are impartial and objective, yet call out Heat fans who are in fact very objective about Bron and his accomplishments.

[Dave3]

I see your point about the assists, but thats the only stat that LeBron has over him, once you factor in team records, it favours Melo.

If that's the logic you use, then that's the stat anyone has over anyone. If you're not going to count the slight advantages for LeBron in steals/blocks, why are you counting the slight advantages for Melo in rebounds/%/TOs?



I'm just trying to take away the high school argument, I don't think it really matters.
To you, it doesn't, and that's fine. To the voters, especially the context of the time in the league, it did. To me if 2 guys produce the exact same (and have different team records because of different team situations, and it's their rookie year where I'm not going to be judging them too harshly on team record), and one of them came from high school while the other went to college, I'm going to pick the one with one less year of experience. What reason would I have to put the other guy ahead of him?

[Black and White]

Why would you?

We're comparing which player was better. Not which team was better.

So team record doesn't matter when it comes to the MVP award?

I don't see how it doesn't play a part when it comes to ROY, technically, if Melo had "more help" wouldn't he be averaging less than Bron?

[navy]

So team record doesn't matter when it comes to the MVP award?

I don't see how it doesn't play a part when it comes to ROY, technically, if Melo had "more help" wouldn't he be averaging less than Bron?

ROY and MVP are not the same thing. Look at MCW record. :oldlol:

[Black and White]

If that's the logic you use, then that's the stat anyone has over anyone. If you're not going to count the slight advantages for LeBron in steals/blocks, why are you counting the slight advantages for Melo in rebounds/%/TOs?


Hey, I said I agreed with you when it came to the assists, LeBron was has always been a better playmaker, so that shouldn't be too surprising. Maybe we should just agree to disagree, as we have two different views, I think the hype was the deciding factor between the two.

[navy]

James was clearly the Rookie of the Year.

Anthony was Denver's third best player in the regular season. The main reason that Denver improved so much was the acquisition of Andre Miller and full season of play from Marcus Camby.
This. I think Melo had a strong case, but if I recall correctly the narrative was Lebron was by himself while Melo had a decent team around him.

[Black and White]

ROY and MVP are not the same thing. Look at MCW record. :oldlol:

MCW won because there was no other rookies (expect Dipo) who came close, and the record isnt a factor between those two as they were tanking.

[Rose'sACL]

but lebron had slightly better stats. He almost produced the 20 wins improvement on a far worse team as compared to melo's.

[9erempiree]

This was the beginning of the hate for Lebron because real basketball knew what was going on. The anti-basketball fans were drooling over this.

Also, Melo won a NCAA title and went on to play well in his rookie year. That is all you needed to know where Lebron was just some hyped high schooler.

[NumberSix]

Let's really break down what each guy did.

Here's their per 100 possession stats.

LeBron: 28 points, 7.3 rebounds, 7.9 assists
Carmelo: 29.6 points, 8.6 rebounds, 3.9 assist

LeBron had better production. There is no possible case for Melo's 1.6 points and 1.3 rebounds having more value than LeBron's 4 assists which is a MINIMUM of 8 points.

[Black and White]

You clearly missed the point. Whatever the thread about Bron, they will be in there posting negatively about him. They act as if they are impartial and objective, yet call out Heat fans who are in fact very objective about Bron and his accomplishments.

Calling out people that say LeBron >>>>> MJ is a bad thing?

[Dave3]

Hey, I said I agreed with you when it came to the assists, LeBron was has always been a better playmaker, so that shouldn't be too surprising. Maybe we should just agree to disagree, as we have two different views, I think the hype was the deciding factor between the two.
We can agree to disagree on opinion and that's fine (ie. which factors played more of a role in who won), but there's no opinion on stats. My point wasn't on assists, it was on overall stats. They were about even in every single stat except for one. That gives the stat advantage to the guy who had the only clear advantage in the entire stat sheet. That's not a point up for debate anymore than "is 15>5" should be up for debate.

Again, you're entitled to think the hype was one of the deciding factors, but to consider it the only factor doesn't make any sense when looking at everything in context.

[Rose'sACL]

Calling out people that say LeBron >>>>> MJ is a bad thing?
but believing everything OP wrote like "advantage: melo" in everything is a bad thing. Lebron had better stats or at least equal stats. unless there was going to be a co-ROY award, lebron was winning it because he did it straight out of high school.
If melo had better stats then i would understand OP and most posters in this thread.

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron was the better defensive player

[Black and White]

We can agree to disagree on opinion and that's fine (ie. which factors played more of a role in who won), but there's no opinion on stats. My point wasn't on assists, it was on overall stats. They were about even in every single stat except for one. That gives the stat advantage to the guy who had the only clear advantage in the entire stat sheet. That's not a point up for debate anymore than "is 15>5" should be up for debate.

Again, you're entitled to think the hype was one of the deciding factors, but to consider it the only factor doesn't make any sense when looking at everything in context.

I think it was one of the biggest factors that seperated them, thats for sure, we have to get in the voters heads to truly tell what tipped the scale in Brons favour.

[Black and White]

but believing everything OP wrote like "advantage: melo" in everything is a bad thing. Lebron had better stats or at least equal stats. unless there was going to be a co-ROY award, lebron was winning it because he did it straight out of high school.
If melo had better stats then i would understand OP and most posters in this thread.

Thats the part where I disagree in this thread, I think it was hype.

[NumberSix]

Thats the part where I disagree in this thread, I think it was hype.
LeBron had better production no matter how much you refuse to accept it.

[Rose'sACL]

I think it was one of the biggest factors that seperated them, thats for sure, we have to get in the voters heads to truly tell what tipped the scale in Brons favour.
he had slightly better stats overall while coming out of high school. that is what tipped the scale. i don't understand how ESPN made him win it when he was the better player.

[Rose'sACL]

Thats the part where I disagree in this thread, I think it was hype.
keep saying that. Hype is when some people put celtics above lakers as a franchise when lakers have clearly been the better franchise by a good margin.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Thats the part where I disagree in this thread, I think it was hype.
At least you try and justify some of your anti-Lebron agenda, unlike some of the idiot trolls on here. I think every time I've seen your posts on a Lebron related topic you always assume the negative side, stay salty.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

keep saying that. Hype is when some people put celtics above lakers as a franchise when lakers have clearly been the better franchise by a good margin.
Lakers have more hype than Boston, you know that right??
They market hard and spend far more aggressively.
Despite of this Celtics still have the most rings and have won all their rings in the city they started (that argument works for teams, not players ;) )

[Cocaine80s]

were they wrong though?

lebron has 2 rings and melo has never reached the finals. i think they all knew who was better from their rookie seasons

[NumberSix]

At least you try and justify some of your anti-Lebron agenda, unlike some of the idiot trolls on here. I think every time I've seen your posts on a Lebron related topic you always assume the negative side, stay salty.
Now ask him who the better scorer is. Point out the fact that LeBron scores more points and does it on better efficiency. This phaggit will still argue all day that Melo is better at scoring.

[Black and White]

At least you try and justify some of your anti-Lebron agenda, unlike some of the idiot trolls on here. I think every time I've seen your posts on a Lebron related topic you always assume the negative side, stay salty.

I have never said that I liked LeBron, its pretty obvious, however, I won't ever say that he isn't top 10-15 (right now) or won't go down as one of the greatest ever, let me just clear that up.

[Black and White]

Now ask him who the better scorer is. Point out the fact that LeBron scores more points and does it on better efficiency. This phaggit will still argue all day that Melo is better at scoring.


There is a difference between more effective scorer and more dangerous scorer.

[Cocaine80s]

There is a difference between more effective scorer and more dangerous scorer.
wtf do you mean by dangerous scorer?

does dangerous= random high scoring games? like jr smith?

[NumberSix]

I have never said that I liked LeBron, its pretty obvious, however, I won't ever say that he isn't top 10-15 (right now) or won't go down as one of the greatest ever, let me just clear that up.
Nah, there was time time not long ago where you tried to present yourself as some kind of objective poster. We all know that isn't the case. You're a hater.

It's fine. I'm a hater too. I hate Durant. I hate OKC. I make no bones about it. It is what it is. Just call it what it is. You're a LeBron hater.

[Ass Dan]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.



you might want to sharpen your 'edge' a bit here.

the stats are basically identical save assists where Bran doubles him.

Edge: Bran

[NumberSix]

There is a difference between more effective scorer and more dangerous scorer.
And what exactly is "danger" in the NBA?

[Rose'sACL]

you might want to sharpen your 'edge' a bit here.

the stats are basically identical save assists where Bran doubles him.

Edge: Bran
lol this. i have no idea why some idiots are acting like it was a robbery.

[Black and White]

And what exactly is "danger" in the NBA?

Like a bigger arsenal of scoring threats, that doesn't make Melo better, all it means is that he can score in more ways than LeBron can

[Black and White]

Nah, there was time time not long ago where you tried to present yourself as some kind of objective poster. We all know that isn't the case. You're a hater.

It's fine. I'm a hater too. I hate Durant. I hate OKC. I make no bones about it. It is what it is. Just call it what it is. You're a LeBron hater.

I won't go overboard, I don't "hate" him, thats a strong word, I just dislike him (since the decision). Doesn't mean I won't say he isn't one of the greatest ever once its all done and dusted.

[NumberSix]

lol this. i have no idea why some idiots are acting like it was a robbery.
It's hilarious. The different in scoring and scoring efficiency is Melo scores 1 more point every 10 games. That and his extra half a rebound is supposed outweigh LeBron's additional 3 assists which adds a minimum of 6 points? Please.

[Rose'sACL]

Like a bigger arsenal of scoring threats, that doesn't make Melo better, all it means is that he can score in more ways than LeBron can
what ways are those? other than mid range jumpers, melo has nothing over lebron while lebron scores better from everywhere else on the court.
Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter right now.
He is at least equal in the post as melo.
He is the better finisher at the rim.
What else do you want?
Even mid range is not that big of a difference between the two right now. Spurs series showed me that lebron really has improved as a jump shooter.

[stalkerforlife]

Bran pads his stats and saves his percentages.

How in the world does that make him a better scorer than Melo?

Melo is a more skilled scorer, period.

[Black and White]

what ways are those? other than mid range jumpers, melo has nothing over lebron while lebron scores better from everywhere else on the court.
Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter right now.
He is at least equal in the post as melo.
He is the better finisher at the rim.
What else do you want?
Even mid range is not that big of a difference between the two right now. Spurs series showed me that lebron really has improved as a jump shooter.

Melo is better in ISO, he is still the better 3-point shooter, Bron is more efficient in the post but doesn't have as many post moves as Melo. Melo is a threat to score from anywhere.

You are aware that I don't think that this makes him a better scorer right?

[MellowYellow]

what ways are those? other than mid range jumpers, melo has nothing over lebron while lebron scores better from everywhere else on the court.
Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter right now.
He is at least equal in the post as melo.
He is the better finisher at the rim.
What else do you want?
Even mid range is not that big of a difference between the two right now. Spurs series showed me that lebron really has improved as a jump shooter.

Not even close, Melo had a better 3 pt% on double the attempts

[NumberSix]

what ways are those? other than mid range jumpers, melo has nothing over lebron while lebron scores better from everywhere else on the court.
Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter right now.
He is at least equal in the post as melo.
He is the better finisher at the rim.
What else do you want?
Even mid range is not that big of a difference between the two right now. Spurs series showed me that lebron really has improved as a jump shooter.
That's all this black and white guy does. Puke out random non-existing things that leave us with the job of debunking his nonsense.

It's much easier to just drop in and say dumb shit like "Melo has more lethal court danger than LeBron".

[stalkerforlife]

what ways are those? other than mid range jumpers, melo has nothing over lebron while lebron scores better from everywhere else on the court.
Lebron is a better 3 pt shooter right now.
He is at least equal in the post as melo.
He is the better finisher at the rim.
What else do you want?
Even mid range is not that big of a difference between the two right now. Spurs series showed me that lebron really has improved as a jump shooter.

Laughable.

[Rose'sACL]

I won't go overboard, I don't "hate" him, thats a strong word, I just dislike him (since the decision). Doesn't mean I won't say he isn't one of the greatest ever once its all done and dusted.
The problem i had with you in this thread is that you agreed with OP that Melo had better stats and in most of your posts you acted like it was a robbery because of ESPN hype.
That is the definition of biased.

[Cocaine80s]

Black and White is a pha*got who always makes threads about lebron trying to act unbiased. When in actuality he adds a subtle diss in everyone of them :facepalm

Also he is a Kobe stan posing as a celtic fan :facepalm :facepalm

[Black and White]

The problem i had with you in this thread is that you agreed with OP that Melo had better stats and in most of your posts you acted like it was a robbery because of ESPN hype.
That is the definition of biased.

I came from the perspective of team record included, but its all good, we are looking at it from different perspectives

[Rose'sACL]

Laughable.
not, laughable. He passes better than melo out of the post while also scoring at better efficiency.
I am just saying they are equal because i believe melo didn't get some calls this year so efficiency might have been a little down.
You still haven't explained how melo had the advantage in stats in their rookie year.

[Rose'sACL]

I came from the perspective of team record included, but its all good, we are looking at it from different perspectives
post both team's line-ups. lets see your unbiased perspective. It is not all good.

[zoom17]

You guys arguing over a minor award lol

[NumberSix]

not, laughable. He passes better than melo out of the post while also scoring at better efficiency.
I am just saying they are equal because i believe melo didn't get some calls this year so efficiency might have been a little down.
You still haven't explained how melo had the advantage in stats in their rookie year.
Apparently, half a rebound and a tenth of a point is more valuable than 3 assists.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's better in the post than melo. He's probably the best post up perimeter player in the league at this point. Just because it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it isn't effective. Check the synergy data. LeBron was better than Melo in literally EVERY type of offensive play except off-screen where melo was marginally better (1.05 ppp vs 1.02 ppp).

As for the ROY: I agree. I thought Melo should've won it.

[Black and White]

post both team's line-ups. lets see your unbiased perspective. It is not all good.

Of course Melo had a better lineup, but do you really think voters took that into consideration as the only factor??? As long as you can say that LeBrons hype played a big part in it, then I am fine with it.

[Black and White]

He's better in the post than melo. He's probably the best post up perimeter player in the league at this point. Just because it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it isn't effective. Check the synergy data. LeBron was better than Melo in literally EVERY type of offensive play except off-screen where melo was marginally better (1.05 ppp vs 1.02 ppp).

As for the ROY: I agree. I thought Melo should've won it.

I agree with this, I just think Melo has a bigger scoring arsenal.

[nzahir]

The assist difference and playmaking in general, playing with less talent. Better defender.
And the hype and highlights

[stalkerforlife]

not, laughable. He passes better than melo out of the post while also scoring at better efficiency.
I am just saying they are equal because i believe melo didn't get some calls this year so efficiency might have been a little down.
You still haven't explained how melo had the advantage in stats in their rookie year.

1. Padding your stats by not shooting unless it's a sure thing is not impressive.

2. Better FG%, 3pt%, FT%, more points, more rebounds.

3. Cue the excuses.

[NumberSix]

Of course Melo had a better lineup, but do you really think voters took that into consideration as the only factor??? As long as you can say that LeBrons hype played a big part in it, then I am fine with it.
He had better production than Melo. He should have won with or without hype.

[Rose'sACL]

Of course Melo had a better lineup, but do you really think voters took that into consideration as the only factor??? As long as you can say that LeBrons hype played a big part in it, then I am fine with it.
what hype? Everything about his hype was right. A high school player averaged better stats than an all time great scorer in their rookie year. How was hype any wrong? If anything, some voters might have been impressed that lived up to his hype in his rookie year.

[NumberSix]

I agree with this, I just think Melo has a bigger scoring arsenal.
No you don't. You don't even know what you mean by saying that. You're only repeating what you've heard around before.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Black and White is a pha*got who always makes threads about lebron trying to act unbiased. When in actuality he adds a subtle diss in everyone of them :facepalm

Also he is a Kobe stan posing as a celtic fan :facepalm :facepalm
Spot on, he thinks that he is being clever but most people know what he's up to.
I have had my suspicions of the bolded part. If you're going to masquerade as a false fan of a team to create a cover for your stanning, use a much lesser franchise than the Boston Celtics. There's plenty to choose from. Or grow some balls like NumberSix and own up if you have biases.

[stalkerforlife]

He's better in the post than melo. He's probably the best post up perimeter player in the league at this point. Just because it doesn't look pretty doesn't mean it isn't effective. Check the synergy data. LeBron was better than Melo in literally EVERY type of offensive play except off-screen where melo was marginally better (1.05 ppp vs 1.02 ppp).

As for the ROY: I agree. I thought Melo should've won it.

When will you people get it? I, nor anyone with a set of good seeing eyes, cares about some stat that has a million different variables not accounted for. I don't care that he is "efficient" when he takes the path with least resistance. If a player protects his percentages, he can make himself look a lot better than he actually is.

[Rose'sACL]

No you don't. You don't even know what you mean by saying that. You're only repeating what you've heard around before.
i would have agreed with him before this year but right now lebron has the advantage even though lebron had the advantage PPG wise in past years but doesn't have that now.
Lebron's jumpers are pretty good now.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

1. Padding your stats by not shooting unless it's a sure thing is not impressive.


I swear some of the people on this forum are legitimately retarded and don't actually watch any games.

LeBron on post ups: 135/232
Melo: 161/326

So LeBron would have to go 26/94 to match Melo.

[Black and White]

Spot on, he thinks that he is being clever but most people know what he's up to.
I have had my suspicions of the bolded part. If you're going to masquerade as a false fan of a team to create a cover for your stanning, use a much lesser franchise than the Boston Celtics. There's plenty to choose from. Or grow some balls like NumberSix and own up if you have biases.

I'm not posing as anything, I am a Celtics fan, but I like Kobe as I do Dirk and Duncan (see the trend).

I dont lie about it or hide it, thats what a poser would do, they would deny it.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

When will you people get it? I, nor anyone with a set of good seeing eyes, cares about some stat that has a million different variables not accounted for. I don't care that he is "efficient" when he takes the path with least resistance. If a player protects his percentages, he can make himself look a lot better than he actually is.
You would have a valid point - If Carmelo was scoring a significant amount of points more than LeBron but he isn't.

[Legends66NBA7]

I'm honestly shocked were this bored tonight that we would post 8 pages long about an award (that's pretty minor in the grand scheme of a career) 10 years ago that could have gone either way.

On topic, would have picked Anthony, but picking James isn't wrong or a big argument either. It was THAT close.


fixed

Do explain how the most dangerous scorer efficiency drops across the board come playoff time. Seems like he gets locked up.

[stalkerforlife]

I swear some of the people on this forum are legitimately retarded and don't actually watch any games.

LeBron on post ups: 135/232
Melo: 161/326

So LeBron would have to go 26/94 to match Melo.

Melo posts up more. Melo shoots more from the post.

You just proved my argument.

Bron pads his stats and protects his percentages.

[Black and White]

No you don't. You don't even know what you mean by saying that. You're only repeating what you've heard around before.

No, how much Melo talk goes on around here?? I have always likes Melos game, that doesn't mean hes better at scoring than LeBron, LeBron is smarter and picks his spots, thus making him the more efficient scorer.

[NumberSix]

i would have agreed with him before this year but right now lebron has the advantage even though lebron had the advantage PPG wise in past years but doesn't have that now.
Lebron's jumpers are pretty good now.
LeBron easily has a bigger arsenal due to the athleticism gap. You don't have to worry about Melo swooping in from the sky to putback a team mates missed shot the way do with Bron.

There was a point where Melo clearly had better moves in the post, but that's at least equal now. Other than that, it's not like there are spots on the floor where LeBron can't figure out how to jump then shoot.

[Rose'sACL]

When will you people get it? I, nor anyone with a set of good seeing eyes, cares about some stat that has a million different variables not accounted for. I don't care that he is "efficient" when he takes the path with least resistance. If a player protects his percentages, he can make himself look a lot better than he actually is.
then why would he average more PPG for their careers even though they were drafted in the same year? Explain please.
Lebron career : 27.5PPG on 49.7% 34.1 3p%
Carmelo Career: 25.3PPG on 45.5% 34.5 3p%
Explain this please.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Melo posts up more. Melo shoots more from the post.

You just proved my argument.

Bron pads his stats and protects his percentages.
LeBron would have to shoot 28% to match carmelo. Under no circumstance - Even in a bailout type situation is that good for the team. And we haven't even gotten to the fact that LeBron is infinitely better at reacting to double teams and passing out of the post.

[Black and White]

Do explain how the most dangerous scorer efficiency drops across the board come playoff time. Seems like he gets locked up.

Come playoff time defenses clamp down on him, I have never once said that Melo is more efficient than Bron, nobody would claim that but Melo can score in more ways than LeBron can, thats all.

[NumberSix]

Come playoff time defenses clamp down on him, I have never once said that Melo is more efficient than Bron, nobody would claim that but Melo can score in more ways than LeBron can, thats all.
What affect does playoff defense have on his danger?

[Legends66NBA7]

Come playoff time defenses clamp down on him, I have never once said that Melo is more efficient than Bron, nobody would claim that but Melo can score in more ways than LeBron can, thats all.

Yeah, but that doesn't make him more dangerous. A dangerous scorer gets on a roll and then some. He most certainly steps up against playoff defenses. I've seen James do it plenty of times come post season. Anthony ? How many times really ? It's not a big list.

[jstern]

Despite the fact I sort of remember Lebron being somewhat the clear winner, but I have no idea what the reasons were.

Maybe assists does help Lebron, and I think maybe Denver being the better team.

Probably defense too.

All I know that going by memory, feeling, even though I don't remember the season that exact, I think Lebron was the clear winner.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Come playoff time defenses clamp down on him, I have never once said that Melo is more efficient than Bron, nobody would claim that but Melo can score in more ways than LeBron can, thats all.

Melo can't even run a pick and roll effectively. He can't finish at the rim either.

[Rose'sACL]

Melo posts up more. Melo shoots more from the post.

You just proved my argument.

Bron pads his stats and protects his percentages.
what are you talking about? How could lebron post up more when wade only scores on post ups and some mid range jumpers. Wade can't go to the 3 point line or drive to the basket like he used to anymore.
i put them equal for this very reason. i assumed lebron would do really bad in those 94 shots and will still have same efficiency in post as melo but go ahead and assume that lebron would miss every shot that he didn't take.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Also, do people who think Melo is a better scorer than LeBron also think Pau Gasol is a better scorer than Shaq because he can score in more "ways"?

[Black and White]

What affect does playoff defense have on his danger?

If you are have defenses focusing on you alone, you will struggle to score, it applies to all players, look at Durant.

[NumberSix]

Melo can't even run a pick and roll effectively. He can't finish at the rim either.
You think this guy has any idea what a pick and roll is?

[stalkerforlife]

then why would he average more PPG for their careers even though they were drafted in the same year? Explain please.
Lebron career : 27.5PPG on 49.7% 34.1 3p%
Carmelo Career: 25.3PPG on 45.5% 34.5 3p%
Explain this please.

Because Bron is favored by the refs. I'm not even talking about FT disparity, which does favor Bron. (Of course) I am talking about Bron being able to bull rush defenders and do whatever he pleases a majority of the time. Bron went 6+ games without a single foul called on him. Melo has to be a lot more cautious because he does not get such favorable calls.

Melo has to play on eggshells at times while Bron can flop his way to victory.

[Black and White]

Melo can't even run a pick and roll effectively. He can't finish at the rim either.

Melo isn't elite around the rim like LeBron is but he is above average, he actually improved there this season IMO when he had to play bigger.

[nzahir]

1. Padding your stats by not shooting unless it's a sure thing is not impressive.

2. Better FG%, 3pt%, FT%, more points, more rebounds.

3. Cue the excuses.
More assists, playmaking, and defense

[Warfan]

Melo is such an overrated scorer :facepalm


Melo isn't elite around the rim like LeBron is but he is above average, he actually improved there this season IMO when he had to play bigger.

He shot 59% at the rim this year and 54% last year (56% in the regular season). Very mediocre

[NumberSix]

More assists, playmaking, and defense
Less danger doe.

[J Shuttlesworth]

LeBron's stats are better, although they are close

[Rose'sACL]

Because Bron is favored by the refs. I'm not even talking about FT disparity, which does favor Bron. (Of course) I am talking about Bron being able to bull rush defenders and do whatever he pleases a majority of the time. Bron went 6+ games without a single foul called on him. Melo has to be a lot more cautious because he does not get such favorable calls.

Melo has to play on eggshells at times while Bron can flop his way to victory.
what are you talking about? he was the only star player in ECF and Finals who for 5 fouls called on him early in the 4 quarter.
Refs give him some advantage because he also gets the disadvantage of not getting calls near the rim because he is huge and can take hits better than someone like durant or kobe. it really is not an advantage when people can throw elbow at your throat and not be called for a flagrant. That was against bobcats of all teams. no one even cares about them and refs didn't call it in favor of lebron.
He also shots lesser free throws than durant and only .6 more free throws than melo while scoring more points in paint.
Melo is an average finisher at the rim while lebron is the best finisher at the rim.

[NumberSix]

what are you talking about? he was the only star player in ECF and Finals who for 5 fouls called on him early in the 4 quarter.
Refs give him some advantage because he also gets the disadvantage of not getting calls near the rim because he is huge and can take hits better than someone like durant or kobe. it really is not an advantage when people can throw elbow at your throat and not be called for a flagrant. That was against bobcats of all teams. no one even cares about them and refs didn't call it in favor of lebron.
He also shots lesser free throws than durant and only .6 more free throws than melo while scoring more points in paint.
Here's a tip. Don't even engage with stalkerforlife. He's a straight up troll. Not even a biased poster. An all out dedicated troll.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

I'm not posing as anything, I am a Celtics fan, but I like Kobe as I do Dirk and Duncan (see the trend).

I dont lie about it or hide it, thats what a poser would do, they would deny it.
Whatever dude, I don't believe you but it's not a big deal.
I just find it funny that you continuously concede ground on your points to avoid looking biased to a point that you don't have a leg to stand on.
Maybe flat out trolling would be more suited for you? I'm not encouraging trolling here, let me be clear.

[TheCorporation]

Carmello's hands are too small

And you forgot to add that LBJ had slight better defensive stats

LBJ bpg .7
Melo bpg .5

LBJ spg 1.6
Melo spg 1.2

The biggest difference is LBJ having 3 more assists per game. That is a big difference. They are identical in ppg, and Melo had .5 more rpg, LBJ had better defensive stats. But the assists is what sets them apart. Clearly.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

^Also I believe Melo played has played on a faster paced team than LeBron throughout his career.

[JohnFreeman]

Terrible thread.

[G-train]

Carmelo was robbed. He was the better player in their rookie year and his team made the playoffs... LeBron's didnt. Still don't know how he didn't win it.

No.

[G-train]

If you actually watched bball at the time, Lebron clearly impacted games more and was a better player.

[iamgine]

Melo - 21, 6.1, 2.8, 42.6, 32.2, 77.7.

Bron - 20.9, 5.5, 5.9, 41.7, 29.0, 75.4.

Edge - Carmelo.

Team Comparison
02-03 Nuggets: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Nuggets: 43-39 (.524 W%)
Win Difference: +26 Wins (.317 W%)

02-03 Cavaliers: 17-65 (.207 W%)
03-04 Cavaliers: 35-47 (.427 W%)
Win Difference: +18 Wins (.220 W%)

Edge: Carmelo.

WTF? :biggums:

More than twice as much assists vs 0.1 ppg & 0.6 RPG

:biggums:

[G-train]

Typical ISH: a few stat categories + team wins = enough data for a conclusion