Dear MLSE

[Jballer]

Sirs

You make it very hard to be a loyal fan.

I want to be. I live here. I go to some games. I was born in Canada I played Hockey but I love basketball and the Raptors were my team when I moved to Toronto.

I saw them play in Maple Leaf Gardens. I endured games in Skydome.

Given the momentum of last season I was excited by this draft; this GM ; this plan towards success.

Now if you have a master plan and trades flow out of this draft pick I will be properly contrite and sorry. You are the professionals... you must have a plan.

Sadly its just not evident.

Sadly at this moment it feels like another momentum busting move to save on luxury tax for a year; or to build some international brand of basketball in this city; or now perhaps its is simply a mistake ... a silly mistake .. dealing with another franchise that is in the midst of head office upheaval... and you got suckered. When all we want is persistently competitive teams that could even win the big one if the injury bugs break our way.

[Prodigy]

Here's probably what's going to happen (pessimestic but I wouldn't discount it).

We lose Lowry to free agency.

Our picks turn out to be busts or no good.

We sip cocktails in the evening remembering the promise (read: fluke) of last season.

At least 8 of the top 10 selections become good to great players.

[kmart]

Sirs

You make it very hard to be a loyal fan.

I want to be. I live here. I go to some games. I was born in Canada I played Hockey but I love basketball and the Raptors were my team when I moved to Toronto.

I saw them play in Maple Leaf Gardens. I endured games in Skydome.

Given the momentum of last season I was excited by this draft; this GM ; this plan towards success.

Now if you have a master plan and trades flow out of this draft pick I will be properly contrite and sorry. You are the professionals... you must have a plan.

Sadly its just not evident.

Sadly at this moment it feels like another momentum busting move to save on luxury tax for a year; or to build some international brand of basketball in this city; or now perhaps its is simply a mistake ... a silly mistake .. dealing with another franchise that is in the midst of head office upheaval... and you got suckered. When all we want is persistently competitive teams that could even win the big one if the injury bugs break our way.

Not to spoil the funeral, but the 20th almost never amounts to anything much anyways.

They've said they want Caboclo in the NBA starting next year, so they aren't trying to save luxury tax money at all.

The plan was to build from within, and they felt they got a player with high potential. Can't blame them for not having a "plan". To me "no plan" would be trying to get Rudy Gay into Toronto to win immediately.

It's a pick no ones heard of and thats where this pick gets its hate, otherwise there should be no complaints from a "MLSE does not care about anything" point of view.

Finally, who cares if the drafted player played in America or not. Talent is talent, see 2014 NBA Champions international roster.

[Zan Tabak]

Sadly at this moment it feels like another momentum busting move to save on luxury tax for a year; or to build some international brand of basketball in this city; or now perhaps its is simply a mistake ... a silly mistake .. dealing with another franchise that is in the midst of head office upheaval... and you got suckered. When all we want is persistently competitive teams that could even win the big one if the injury bugs break our way.
I think you might be being a bit premature on your judgement of the pick. Nobody has really seen this guy play. Good sleeper picks have been taken in the draft before (Manu Ginobili 57th in 99 comes to mind)

The one thing that gets me, I think they could of gotten this pick with their second choice. But who knows? Other teams might have been eying him, so the Raps thought they had to take him first.

So I'll wait to pass judgement. I'm guessing (hoping) Masai and his team know something we don't.

[Jballer]

Finally, who cares if the drafted player played in America or not. Talent is talent, see 2014 NBA Champions international roster.

San Antonio is a remarkable role model indeed.

Look closely please.

Boris Diaw, Tiango Splitter were not home grown. Nor was Bonner or Bellineni.

The foundation of this team for a decade is a unique American born college player named Duncan who is arguably one of the top 2 power forwards to play the game ever !

The MVP last playoffs ???? Where was he from?

Yes there is the home grown French guard agreed. Manu G is also home grown. But there is also arguably one of the best coaches.

San An is an excellent role model; but not one that every team can duplicate without Duncan / Popo !

Now lets look at all the other teams as winners or finalists in the past decade.

Lakers
Celtics
Heat
Mavericks (note the 1 home grown German talent)
Oklahoma

Hmm do we see a theme?

Talent may be talent International or American ; but American born players also form a foundation. The fact is : Lbron/Wade/Bosh - Durant/Westbrook/Harden - Kobe/Shaq - Kobe/Gasol - Piece/Garnett/Allen - Dirk/Chandler.

Is Derozan/Val/Lowry at that level ?? Maybe ! We are not even sure we have Lowry.

Taking a Brazillian phenon may be all right. In 4 years I may look like an ass !
I will duly write the retraction then.

...but after years of suffering, after the momentum of last season, after believing this draft would incrementally improve the team NOW !

This is a major let down. Capella will be ready to "contribute" this year or next. Hood ditto. McDaniels ditto.

Our draft pick is evidently 2 - 4 years away by other experts AFTER DeRozans contract is done, near the end of Val rookie deal and who even knows if Lowry is here !!!

[The_Night_Elf]

My only question is, would he have been available at the 37th pick? I heard Massai has been really scouting and is high on this kid so maybe he really wanted to make sure he got him.

[Jballer]

I think you might be being a bit premature on your judgement of the pick.

<<snip>>

So I'll wait to pass judgement. I'm guessing (hoping) Masai and his team know something we don't.

That is a fair comment.

Masai is supposed to be the genius. I only play one on the internet.

But again.......

Most every team in the east just got incrementally better after this draft with a player that will contribute "some" this season. Noted exceptions : Pistons / Nets / Heat / perhaps the Pacers.

Cavs, Bucks, Philly, even Celtics, Magic have potential to get more than incrementally better. That's the purpose of the lottery right ?

If this pick was made :
1) after our 3rd consecutive playoff appearance
2) with Lowry under contract
3) with Tross developed into a bone fida consistent core player
4) with Val / Derozan / Lowry persistently debated about being all-star, near all-star, under appreciated...

Well I would be properly thrilled and shut up.

This pick was made with a 2 - 4 year window after 1 playoff appearance ending a 6 year drought in a universally panned Eastern Conference with your primary PG not under contract ... ad naseum...

So do you wonder why some fans might be frustrated.

Patience is nice but MLSE seems to sell a lot of patience to their Basketball, Hockey, Soccer fans....

[Jballer]

My only question is, would he have been available at the 37th pick? I heard Massai has been really scouting and is high on this kid so maybe he really wanted to make sure he got him.

Multiple tweets say not.

[kmart]

San Antonio is a remarkable role model indeed.

Look closely please.

Boris Diaw, Tiango Splitter were not home grown. Nor was Bonner or Bellineni.

First off Splitter has always been with the Spurs organization, so you might want to consider him in the home grown section. Let's be honest to, they wouldn't even be in the finals without Parker and Ginoboli.


Hmm do we see a theme?

Talent may be talent International or American ; but American born players also form a foundation. The fact is : Lbron/Wade/Bosh - Durant/Westbrook/Harden - Kobe/Shaq - Kobe/Gasol - Piece/Garnett/Allen - Dirk/Chandler.


Secondly, heres a theme for you almost non of those combos were completely home grown other than the 3 in OKC, but they didn't win and aren't together now. You might want to include international prospect Serge Ibaka in the OKC trio now.


...but after years of suffering, after the momentum of last season, after believing this draft would incrementally improve the team NOW !

This is a major let down. Capella will be ready to "contribute" this year or next. Hood ditto. McDaniels ditto.

Capela would've been stored in France.

I don't blame Masai for the swing to the fences, it's hardly ever that a 20th pick turns out to be anything, but a 7-8 rotation guy at best. Plus they're rookies that won't come in a contribute right away anyways.

[Jballer]

Secondly, heres a theme for you almost non of those combos were completely home grown other than the 3 in OKC, but they didn't win and aren't together now. You might want to include international prospect Serge Ibaka in the OKC trio now.

<snip>


I don't blame Masai for the swing to the fences, it's hardly ever that a 20th pick turns out to be anything, but a 7-8 rotation guy at best. Plus they're rookies that won't come in a contribute right away anyways.

Re: Secondly.

Exactly my point - we agree. Most to none of those combos were home grown. Duplicating the SanAn model is extremely hard without Duncan for a decade and Pops.

We are trying to duplicate SanAn as hard as that is. I remain hopeful as a Raptor fan. I bought the plan. I bought into the momentum. I believe.

Derozan / Val / Ross are homegrown. Lowry / Vasquez / Amir / Patterson are the "right guys" at the right time. Casey may grow into that Pops clone.

The difference is SanAn is taking that swing for the fence after years of consistent playoff appearance and championships. We are swinging for the fences after 1 play off appearance (which we lost). Further we don't have that one guyed inked on paper yet.

Maybe Hood/Capella/McDaniels will end up being a 7-8 guy. Maybe Capella would have been 1 more year in France.

At this moment (as I stated) it feels like we dropped a chance on a 7-8 guy that would incrementally improve the team ; or a 7-8 guy that would have pressured Ross to perform better; or a 7-8 guy that would come from France next year and play 21 minutes and get evaluated to replace Amir ; or a 7-8 guy that was a quantifiable asset in some move to shift Landry/Cedric's contract. At this moment it feels like momentum gone

At this moment it feels like we got a 4 year project.

edit
<<Ikaka fair comment. I was referencing the team that made the finals with Harden..not sure Ikaka was on that team ? shrug>>

[kmart]

Re: Secondly.

Exactly my point - we agree. Most to none of those combos were home grown. Duplicating the SanAn model is extremely hard without Duncan for a decade and Pops.

We are trying to duplicate SanAn as hard as that is. I remain hopeful as a Raptor fan. I bought the plan. I bought into the momentum. I believe.

Derozan / Val / Ross are homegrown. Lowry / Vasquez / Amir / Patterson are the "right guys" at the right time. Casey may grow into that Pops clone.

The difference is SanAn is taking that swing for the fence after years of consistent playoff appearance and championships. We are swinging for the fences after 1 play off appearance (which we lost). Further we don't have that one guyed inked on paper yet.

Maybe Hood/Capella/McDaniels will end up being a 7-8 guy. Maybe Capella would have been 1 more year in France.

At this moment (as I stated) it feels like we dropped a chance on a 7-8 guy that would incrementally improve the team ; or a 7-8 guy that would have pressured Ross to perform better; or a 7-8 guy that would come from France next year and play 21 minutes and get evaluated to replace Amir ; or a 7-8 guy that was a quantifiable asset in some move to shift Landry/Cedric's contract. At this moment it feels like momentum gone

At this moment it feels like we got a 4 year project.

edit
<<Ikaka fair comment. I was referencing the team that made the finals with Harden..not sure Ikaka was on that team ? shrug>>

You can use an MLE on a 7-8 guy. I used 7-8 guy as a best case scenario as well, the worst case (more likely case) is you have a bench warmer.

If you want someone to challenge Ross I'd suggest they go use 5 mill on the MLE and sign a defensive wing who can shoot the 3 better than 33%. Ross was just as raw as some of these guys when he started, he is starting to become more polished now though. I don't really see any of the guys being close, currently, to current Ross's level at the time we picked.

If they truly wanted to "win now" nobody would've helped at the time they were picking IMO. Maybe Cleanthony Early? The rest of the players were projects. Yes, Hood and McDaniels are projects.

Not saying I like the pick, but I'll wait till I watch some summer league before I make judgement. If the rumors are true the Raptors tried to keep him quiet by offering a promise at 37 and they feared he would be taken after 20 so they picked him anyways. I'd say since theres nothing to lose at pick 20 they might as well pick him anyways.

[RaininThrees]

Let he who has actually watched an entire game of this player's career be the one to cast the first stone.

If you haven't actually watched him play, beyond grainy Youtube clips, I'd suggest you withhold your criticism. It's silly to have an opinion on someone you've never seen play.

[Legends66NBA7]

Let's be honest to, they wouldn't even be in the finals without Parker and Ginoboli.

They made the Finals as a team and won as a team. Duncan, Leonard, Diaw, Mills and Splitter all made solid contributions along the way.

Splitter's defense against Nowitzki and Aldridge was key. Leonard was key against Portland. Duncan stepped up and was arguably the most consistent overall player in the first 3 rounds, infact the whole playoff run. In game 6 vs OKC, they won the game with Parker sitting on the bench for the majority of the game.

Also, Popvich pretty much out coached every other coach in each series.

[bk33]

It's the 20th pick, guys, we're not getting the "NBA ready" kids like Jabari Parker, or even Shane Battier, we'd be getting the NBA ready as in ready to sit on the bench with the ceiling of 9th rotation player in a couple years.

Swing for that fence, Masai, we got our Giannis :applause:

[kmart]

They made the Finals as a team and won as a team. Duncan, Leonard, Diaw, Mills and Splitter all made solid contributions along the way.

Splitter's defense against Nowitzki and Aldridge was key. Leonard was key against Portland. Duncan stepped up and was arguably the most consistent overall player in the first 3 rounds, infact the whole playoff run. In game 6 vs OKC, they won the game with Parker sitting on the bench for the majority of the game.

Also, Popvich pretty much out coached every other coach in each series.

They're great team and they do such good research on players they add, that regardless of who they add it it seems like the player would make solid contributions. The point I was JBaller trying to make was San Antonio does have international "home grown" content, as well as other excellent international contributors. It doesn't always have to be American college players.

[bluerap]

At first I was down on this pick. Then I realized that Masai knows what he is doing. This pick may bust, but it may also be a huge sleeper. I think the KD comparison is ridiculous, but I can see this guy developing into a starting SF that plays solid 2 way basketball.

Other options at this pick that guys would have wanted?
Capella - I'm sure Masai knows that this guy is not Serge Ibaka.
Napier aka the next mario chalmers/ nate cole...

I'm not expecting much at this end of the draft, but I'm excited that we got a freakish athlete that is passionate about improving his game. Masai has done it before so let's see what happens in SL.

[Jballer]

I absolutely concede that there are great international players.. and some of those indeed in the SanAn franchise.

I absolutely concede that modeling our franchise after the SanAn path to success is a worthy goal.

I absolutely concede this young Brazilian "may" set the league on fire in 4 years. This draft pick is a 'swing for the fences' move.

I semi-concede that that player chosen at 20 may have been a 9 depth talent ; there was fairly consistent expert agreement that what was on the table at 20 was better than that in a deep draft. 7 depth ? 6 depth ? Core starter - no one can predict.

--

Lost in this debate - back and forth is the timing.

I do not concede that this was the right move at this moment in the franchise development.

I do not concede that taking a "flyer or home run swing" helps our team resign Lowry or even make the playoffs next year ! There is no guarantee given our depth we are a lock to make the playoffs next season (we should)

We should have taken "almost developed" talent now and worry about home runs down the road.

We should be looking to maintain franchise momentum leading up to hosting the All Star game. We should be looking to become a "franchise destination"... we may never be LA, Miami, New York or Chicago... but we don't have to be Milwaukee, Cleveland, Minnesota, or Utah.

Further it is also just possible that a McDaniels (or Capella or ?) could have been a "semi home run".... or a home run draft pick as good and as the young Brazillian. Way too hard to predict right now but it is 'possible' if not likely.

[kmart]

I absolutely concede that there are great international players.. and some of those indeed in the SanAn franchise.

I absolutely concede that modeling our franchise after the SanAn path to success is a worthy goal.

I absolutely concede this young Brazilian "may" set the league on fire in 4 years. This draft pick is a 'swing for the fences' move.

I semi-concede that that player chosen at 20 may have been a 9 depth talent ; there was fairly consistent expert agreement that what was on the table at 20 was better than that in a deep draft. 7 depth ? 6 depth ? Core starter - no one can predict.

--

Lost in this debate - back and forth is the timing.

I do not concede that this was the right move at this moment in the franchise development.

I do not concede that taking a "flyer or home run swing" helps our team resign Lowry or even make the playoffs next year ! There is no guarantee given our depth we are a lock to make the playoffs next season (we should)

We should have taken "almost developed" talent now and worry about home runs down the road.

We should be looking to maintain franchise momentum leading up to hosting the All Star game. We should be looking to become a "franchise destination"... we may never be LA, Miami, New York or Chicago... but we don't have to be Milwaukee, Cleveland, Minnesota, or Utah.

Further it is also just possible that a McDaniels (or Capella or ?) could have been a "semi home run".... or a home run draft pick as good and as the young Brazillian. Way too hard to predict right now but it is 'possible' if not likely.

Teams that take "almost developed" guys are teams like Miami that want players to contribute right away. If we take the "almost developed guy" and aren't improving that much we will be stuck in the never ending cycle of NBA mediocrity.

Let's face it our roster is 3 seed at best in the East. Home run guys are probably the guys we want, considering we don't have anything on our roster that is a top notch NBA player and only one guy thats ever been an allstar.

I know there have been rumours about Durant and how Toronto will make a run at Durant, but theres only one Durant and with Durant and 30 other teams. We aren't getting him, considering our hisory. Besides I don't want any awful free agents, and there aren't many underpaid FA.

[Jballer]

Teams that take "almost developed" guys are teams like Miami that want players to contribute right away. If we take the "almost developed guy" and aren't improving that much we will be stuck in the never ending cycle of NBA mediocrity.

Agree to disagree mate. :cheers:

Almost developed guys or role and depth are the guys SanAn brings in i.e. Tiago Splitter.

They form the basis the core depth that allows the 2nd unit to perform (like San An) and also are commodity pieces in the trade for that "one guy you really want".

Dont disagree with your assessment re Durant etc.

[RaininThrees]

I
I do not concede that this was the right move at this moment in the franchise development.


This pick wasn't about this moment... and that's what makes it so refreshing, IMO. A GM who clearly has his eye in the 'now' (in his continued pursuit of Lowry) while keeping the hopper filled with young (cheap) talent (in a draft position where you're pretty unlikely to get someone who can have a real impact now)? That's pretty awesome if you ask me.

I mean, if we were talking about a top 10 pick, I'd be singing a different tune. But we're talking about the 20th overall pick here.