The 'theory' Harden and Melo can't co-exist

[UK2K]

Two players who want the ball in their hands. I heard on the radio this morning on the way home, one sports analyst questions whether Melo would want to play with Harden who takes "25 shots a game".

Why they could exist together as amazing teammates:

Melo and Harden were #4 and #12 in usage rate last season at 30.1% and 26.8%, respectively, but assuming they both play on the same team, why could they not each have 24%? That allows each player to rest on some plays, it gives each player less defensive attention. Westbrook and Durant play on the same team, and were #1 and #2 (33.5, 31.2). Cousins, Thomas, and Gay were #3, #19, #26. Griffin, Crawford, and Paul were #11, #24, #29. Dwight Howard was #76. So why would it be so unrealistic to assume that Harden and Melo couldn't share the ball like several other teams who have multiple players in the top 30 in usage rate?

Had Westbrook not been injured, him and Durant would both be in the top 5 in FGA. Monta and Dirk were both top 20. Lillard and Aldridge were both top 14.

Melo was #2 as the only option for NY, Harden was #19. Dwight was #70. Chandler Parsons took more FGA per game then Howard.

I keep hearing how Melo and Harden both want to shoot, shoot, shoot, but that's simply not true. In fact, several teams have more scorers on their team, many of which (LAC, OKC, POR, DAL) are WCFs contenders.

There's no reason to think Melo and Harden can't or won't take 16-18 shots per game in Houston.

[-Lebron23-]

Of course they can play together, both have great fundamentals, very good shooters, I can really see them playing off each other but can Houston afford Harden+Melo+Howard? How much of a paycut would Melo need to take for that to happen?

I am just curious, don't know much about their cap situation.

[UK2K]

Of course they can play together, both have great fundamentals, very good shooters, I can really see them playing off each other but can Houston afford Harden+Melo+Howard? How much of a paycut would Melo need to take for that to happen?

I am just curious, don't know much about their cap situation.

I believe I read Houston can offer him around 20m stripping their team bare (minus Jones, Beverly, and a few other players on rookie contracts), but due to the lack of income tax in Texas, he would only make an extra 11m over the life of his contract in total if he stayed in New York.

I believe his tax bracket pays ~10% in income taxes in New York, whereas, in Texas he pays none.

Melo said it's not about the money, and if that's true, he'd come to Houston for about 16m and allow Houston to use their MLE on veteran players.

Credit to aschen from CF:


Key Assumptions: Jeremy Lin, Donatas Motiejunas, 2014 NBA Draft Pick #25 are all traded for cap space

Scenario 1
20,513,178.00 Dwight Howard 1
14,728,844.00 James Harden 2
2,875,130.00 Chandler Parsons Qualifying Offer 3
1,618,680.00 Terrence Jones 4
915,243.00 Patrick Beverley 5
816,482.00 Isiah Canaan 6
816,482.00 Robert Covington 7
816,482.00 Troy Daniels 8
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 9
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 10
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 11
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 12
18,070,135.00 Free Agent 13
63,200,000.00 2014-2015 Projected Salary Cap

Scenario 2 - Chandler Parsons is renounced or traded for non-2014 draft picks
20,513,178.00 Dwight Howard 1
14,728,844.00 James Harden 2
1,618,680.00 Terrence Jones 3
915,243.00 Patrick Beverley 4
816,482.00 Isiah Canaan 5
816,482.00 Robert Covington 6
816,482.00 Troy Daniels 7
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 8
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 9
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 10
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 11
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 12
20,437,929.00 Free Agent 13
63,200,000.00 2014-2015 Projected Salary Cap

Scenario 3 - Terrence Jones & Chandler Parsons traded or renounced for non-2014 draft picks
20,513,178.00 Dwight Howard 1
14,728,844.00 James Harden 2
915,243.00 Patrick Beverley 3
816,482.00 Isiah Canaan 4
816,482.00 Robert Covington 5
816,482.00 Troy Daniels 6
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 7
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 8
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 9
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 10
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 11
507,336.00 Incomplete roster charge 12
21,549,273.00 Free Agent 13
63,200,000.00 2014-2015 Projected Salary Cap

[-Lebron23-]

I believe I read Houston can offer him around 20m stripping their team bare (minus Jones, Beverly, and a few other players on rookie contracts), but due to the lack of income tax in Texas, he would only make an extra 11m over the life of his contract in total if he stayed in New York.

I believe his tax bracket pays ~10% in income taxes in New York, whereas, in Texas he pays none.
Then that's it, I mean, they offer him the best chance to contend for the next 4-5 years barring injuries. Dallas might be a better option next year as the Rockets would have no depth or decent role players to rely on (see '11 Heat) but once exceptions kick in and they're able to add a few veterans, that's a championship team right there, better than Rose - Butler - Melo - Gibson - Noah, which seems to be the second best scenario for him.

[Lebronxrings]

http://myreactiongifs.com/gifs/nicolascageconfusedemotions.gif

[iamgine]

Two players who want the ball in their hands. I heard on the radio this morning on the way home, one sports analyst questions whether Melo would want to play with Harden who takes "25 shots a game".

Why they could exist together as amazing teammates:

Melo and Harden were #4 and #12 in usage rate last season at 30.1% and 26.8%, respectively, but assuming they both play on the same team, why could they not each have 24%? That allows each player to rest on some plays, it gives each player less defensive attention. Westbrook and Durant play on the same team, and were #1 and #2 (33.5, 31.2). Cousins, Thomas, and Gay were #3, #19, #26. Griffin, Crawford, and Paul were #11, #24, #29. Dwight Howard was #76. So why would it be so unrealistic to assume that Harden and Melo couldn't share the ball like several other teams who have multiple players in the top 30 in usage rate?

Had Westbrook not been injured, him and Durant would both be in the top 5 in FGA. Monta and Dirk were both top 20. Lillard and Aldridge were both top 14.

Melo was #2 as the only option for NY, Harden was #19. Dwight was #70. Chandler Parsons took more FGA per game then Howard.

I keep hearing how Melo and Harden both want to shoot, shoot, shoot, but that's simply not true. In fact, several teams have more scorers on their team, many of which (LAC, OKC, POR, DAL) are WCFs contenders.

There's no reason to think Melo and Harden can't or won't take 16-18 shots per game in Houston.
I think the notion is not about FGA or they both shoot so much. The notion is that they both need the ball in their hand to be most effective.

[UK2K]

I think the notion is not about FGA or they both shoot so much. The notion is that they both need the ball in their hand to be most effective.
Agreed, that is the theory. Thats why I pointed out there are several other teams with multiple players in the top 30 in usage rate, LAC and OKC being the primary two points.

[Rameek]

If you think Melo is going to sign somewhere for less than 20 mill some STANS are delusional. If you think Melo is going to do a S & T that strips another team down bare STANS are delusional.

[BlackVVaves]

Your defense would be garbage. Harden and Melo on defense with McHale coaching?

Holy shit.

[-Lebron23-]

If you think Melo is going to sign somewhere for less than 20 mill some STANS are delusional. If you think Melo is going to do a S & T that strips another team down bare STANS are delusional.
If you think Melo is going to stay in NY to play with old man Calder

[UK2K]

Your defense would be garbage. Harden and Melo on defense with McHale coaching?

Holy shit.
No reason to think they couldn't trade Parsons for a defensive 3 or 4 in a S&T.

To argue that that team wouldn't compete every season for a WCC is ignorant.

Houston was the 4th youngest team in the league and #12 in defensive efficiency... lets not pretend they're the Nash led Suns. With Melo starting in place of TJones they'd automatically become a better defensive team then last year, especially with another year of experience, even without trading Parsons.

[BlackVVaves]

No reason to think they couldn't trade Parsons for a defensive 3 or 4 in a S&T.

To argue that that team wouldn't compete every season for a WCC is ignorant.

We heard the same thing from some Rockets fans regarding this season, and they ended up getting put on their back by Aldridge, who Dwight was suppose to shut down, and Lillard, who we heard for weeks would be locked the **** up by Beverly.

And then, Lillard proceeds to have explosive diarrhea on the Rockets face.

I wouldn't hedge any bets on McHale being able to mesh Melo, Harden, and Dwight. Sorry.

If you guys get a new coach, then it becomes feasible.

[Nick Young]

Howard-Melo-Harden means all three of your 'leaders' are career losers and apart from Melo, playoff choke artists:lol

Sounds like they might be able to manage a respectable first round exit for the Rockets:bowdown:

[Rameek]

[QUOTE=-Lebron23-]If you think Melo is going to stay in NY to play with old man Calder

[Mass Debator]

That perimeter d, rotational d, and defensive heart is going to be lacking. I'd focus on picking up Eric Bledsoe and someone like Ariza.

[Milbuck]

God Knicks fans are ****ing delusional :facepalm

If you think there's "no chance" Melo leaves for Houston or Chicago, you don't know the slightest thing about basketball or the NBA.

[-Lebron23-]

Of course he'll stay in NY. The only 2 places that are threat to NY is LA and a small chance Chi. Outside of that he isnt heading to Houston or Dallas.

Its not a STAN situation its a family situation. If you had any clue how career driven his wife is to be so hollywood and being close to her and his family plays such a major role. She isnt giving that up for him to chase rings like a journeyman or Barkley.

The only way I think he gets pushed out the door is if Zen tries to strong arm Melo into taking less than 19 mill.
In short, you are refering to his wife as the reason why Melo will stay in NY. Meanwhile Melo is visiting teams because he likes to travel and spend his holidays holding meetings discussing basketball with people he will never actually get to play for.

I am convinced.

[Rameek]

In short, you are refering to his wife as the reason why Melo will stay in NY. Meanwhile Melo is visiting teams because he likes to travel and spend his holidays holding meetings discussing basketball with people he will never actually get to play for.

I am convinced.
Have you ever been recruited for anything in your life? Its quite fun to have people cater to you and hook you up with things. You do explore your options because this is his peak time and how often do All Stars get recruited after they're drafted? Not often.

But yes if Melo was single I think he would sign somewhere else but considering the family issue and uprooting them again seems less likely. Thats why I qualified my statement by pointing out I could see him going to LA or somewhat Chicago.

You dont have to be convinced you're a Lebron Stan and not a team fan.

FACT

[RoTM]

Melo won't work in Houston for the same reason he wouldn't in Chicago. They need another ball handler to run the pick and roll who is a willing passer. Melo just wants to kill everything with his black hole iso a bad habit that Dwight already has.

[UK2K]

Howard-Melo-Harden means all three of your 'leaders' are career losers and apart from Melo, playoff choke artists:lol

Sounds like they might be able to manage a respectable first round exit for the Rockets:bowdown:
Dwight made the finals, basically on his own, and Harden has been a starter for two years.

'Career' losers.

[AlphaWolf24]

Same theory based on the reason's Melo and AI couldn't co exist....

Both great scorers....but need the ball to get in rhythm.

both will suffer and not maximize and or help the team as much as they would being the primary scorer.

[-Lebron23-]

Have you ever been recruited for anything in your life? Its quite fun to have people cater to you and hook you up with things. You do explore your options because this is his peak time and how often do All Stars get recruited after they're drafted? Not often.

But yes if Melo was single I think he would sign somewhere else but considering the family issue and uprooting them again seems less likely. Thats why I qualified my statement by pointing out I could see him going to LA or somewhat Chicago.

You dont have to be convinced you're a Lebron Stan and not a team fan.

FACT
I have been recruited, yes, so what? These guys hve people cater to them and hook them up with things on a daily basis anyway. It is not so awesome that you force your team to make key decisions without knowing whether you will stay or not. If he wanted to stay he would have informed Phil already so he can act accordingly unless of course he doesn't care about winning at all.

I understand family being a factor, I myself refused a potentially very profitable professional move for a similar reason not long ago but to act like it's a sure thing he stays because of family and call people delusional for thinking differently, all this while Melo himself has announced he will hold meetings with a handful of teams, is silly.