to everyone shaking their head about lebron and company taking paycuts -

[jzek]

you need a great team to win. you can't have a great team if you alone make 80% of the total salary cap

also, you guys realize that these guys make extra money via endorsements, appearances, etc. right? how much does nike pay lebron? 90 million

read that again - 90 MILLION FOR A SHOE DEAL

he makes even more on appearances, other endorsements, etc.

that's why guys like lebron don't mind taking a 10-15 million pay cut from their basketball salary

just trying to put this into perspective

[russwest0]

It's just the nature of it man. We're fans and we want to see a competitive league top to bottom.

I don't know about you but I felt that the Eastern Conference playoffs this year were a snoozefest. I don't want to see it that way again.

[J Shuttlesworth]

It's just the nature of it man. We're fans and we want to see a competitive league top to bottom.

I don't know about you but I felt that the Eastern Conference playoffs this year were a snoozefest. I don't want to see it that way again.
So you want the Heat to be worse, so that the Eastern conference is full of non-contenders? :biggums: You want more NBA finals that are snoozefests instead? :biggums:

[CavaliersFTW]

So you want the Heat to be worse, so that the Eastern conference is full of non-contenders? :biggums: You want more NBA finals that are snoozefests instead? :biggums:
The cHeat don't need more talent, they need to learn how to play basketball. The Spurs did more with less. The cHeat method is ridiculous they saturate their roster with talent and hope for the best, it isn't good or smart basketball and it is bad for the rest of the league because every franchise deserves some elite talent to draw fans. Instead, Miami, with the worst fan base in all of sports that don't even care about basketball is trying to get all the players that the other franchises fans deserve to watch playing for their teams. The Heat need to learn how to play smarter, not stack the deck.

[russwest0]

So you want the Heat to be worse, so that the Eastern conference is full of non-contenders? :biggums: You want more NBA finals that are snoozefests instead? :biggums:

So if the Heat become worse but the result is a more competitive conference, then yes, absolutely that's what I want.

I mean, you're a Heat fan so obviously you don't want your team to get worse, I get it. For me personally, I'm just not a fan of "superteams" formed by guys who all came from one conference and stripped that conference of it's overall competitiveness in order to take a shortcut. I don't blame the players for doing it, but as a fan it's just not something I respect.

When I see Kobe kick Shaq off of his team and then win 2 rings thats something I can get behind and respect personally. I think that was pretty badass and cool.

[STATUTORY]

alphas dont make concessions, they get theirs or die trying

[Meticode]

I'm not shaking my head. This is what I think he, Bosh and Wade should do if the want to keep winning. I hope they resign for longer than 3 years.

[SCdac]

Heat need to upgrade at PG and C , like they've needed to a few years now... its takes money though. Ie. consolidating or moving around contracts.

How many of the max contracts of the last 10 years have worked out amazingly? The Joe Johnsons, Gilbert Arenas, Rashard Lewis' of the league.

Bottom line is the contract should be an agreeable balance that makes both the player and team happy.

[uber]

OP is right. Bron needs more help. Lets give him some other stars to blame for his failures. Because if there's one thing we learned in the last few years. It's never Lebrons fault.

[GimmeThat]

algorithm don't even win championship on NBA 2K14 or whatever

[longtime lurker]

Somehow for 60 years before 2010 the best players in the league managed to win titles without taking paycuts but now it's the only way. Smh at the number of excuses made for the big 3. Face it none of these guys believe they are championship material without having the most stacked team

[NBAplayoffs2001]

The cHeat don't need more talent, they need to learn how to play basketball. The Spurs did more with less. The cHeat method is ridiculous they saturate their roster with talent and hope for the best, it isn't good or smart basketball and it is bad for the rest of the league because every franchise deserves some elite talent to draw fans. Instead, Miami, with the worst fan base in all of sports that don't even care about basketball is trying to get all the players that the other franchises fans deserve to watch playing for their teams. The Heat need to learn how to play smarter, not stack the deck.

GOAT post.

[livinglegend]

I hope they take huge paycuts. Let s go, do it! :applause: :applause:

[Rubio2Gasol]

I have one question.

When these guys opt out and take less money, and Riley brings in a guy like Lowry, or even Melo, and these guys become catch and shoot guys averaging 40% less points than they did before.

Are you guys still going to complain about him not having enough help? Are we going to hear that these guys declined?

If the answer is no, then he can do whatever he wants.

[livinglegend]

Somehow for 60 years before 2010 the best players in the league managed to win titles without taking paycuts but now it's the only way. Smh at the number of excuses made for the big 3. Face it none of these guys believe they are championship material without having the most stacked team

Give credit to these guys for their revolution.
We had Gandhi, Mirabeau, Che Guevara, and now, Miami Heat! :applause: :applause:

[livinglegend]

I have one question.

When these guys opt out and take less money, and Riley brings in a guy like Lowry, or even Melo, and these guys become catch and shoot guys averaging 40% less points than they did before.

Are you guys still going to complain about him not having enough help? Are we going to hear that these guys declined?

If the answer is no, then he can do whatever he wants.

if they dont contribute, yes, they will get called out.

[navy]

I have one question.

When these guys opt out and take less money, and Riley brings in a guy like Lowry, or even Melo, and these guys become catch and shoot guys averaging 40% less points than they did before.

Are you guys still going to complain about him not having enough help? Are we going to hear that these guys declined?

If the answer is no, then he can do whatever he wants.
You idiots just dont get it. Noboby cares about the less production from being a number one option. Heat fans care about the declined production from the regular season to the postseason.

[3LiftHeatCurse]

you need a great team to win. you can't have a great team if you alone make 80% of the total salary cap

also, you guys realize that these guys make extra money via endorsements, appearances, etc. right? how much does nike pay lebron? 90 million

read that again - 90 MILLION FOR A SHOE DEAL

he makes even more on appearances, other endorsements, etc.

that's why guys like lebron don't mind taking a 10-15 million pay cut from their basketball salary

just trying to put this into perspective

If you think about it, winning on the basketball court increases their off-court salaries tremendously. Sponsorships go up, commercials, better deals..... so taking a paycut on your basketball salary can actually increase your non-basketball salaries.

If you took your max basketball salary, but now you have 0 championships, you won't be as famous or get anywhere near as many sponsorships.

[Rose'sACL]

The cHeat don't need more talent, they need to learn how to play basketball. The Spurs did more with less. The cHeat method is ridiculous they saturate their roster with talent and hope for the best, it isn't good or smart basketball and it is bad for the rest of the league because every franchise deserves some elite talent to draw fans. Instead, Miami, with the worst fan base in all of sports that don't even care about basketball is trying to get all the players that the other franchises fans deserve to watch playing for their teams. The Heat need to learn how to play smarter, not stack the deck.
LoL @ the bold part. Sell your franchise to a big city if you can't get good free agents to come to your city. Spurs are doing fine by the way. Heat don't have a coach like PoP or a really good scouting department so they have to do it this way.
Lakers did it this way and you don't see me saying that spurs are better franchise than lakers because we drafted duncan unlike LA who didn't draft shaq.
also, people forget so quickly that luxury tax repeater didn't have to pay so much in the past. You just can't compare going above cap space right now to past eras.

[J Shuttlesworth]

So if the Heat become worse but the result is a more competitive conference, then yes, absolutely that's what I want.

I mean, you're a Heat fan so obviously you don't want your team to get worse, I get it. For me personally, I'm just not a fan of "superteams" formed by guys who all came from one conference and stripped that conference of it's overall competitiveness in order to take a shortcut. I don't blame the players for doing it, but as a fan it's just not something I respect.

When I see Kobe kick Shaq off of his team and then win 2 rings thats something I can get behind and respect personally. I think that was pretty badass and cool.
You want there to be 0 contenders in the east. That's pathetic. You're basically asking for more disparity than there is. If the East has no good teams that can contend for a finals, why even have an NBA finals? You're basically asking for the WCF to be the NBA finals, which is worse than what we have now.

[Rose'sACL]

You want there to be 0 contenders in the east. That's pathetic. You're basically asking for more disparity than there is. If the East has no good teams that can contend for a finals, why even have an NBA finals? You're basically asking for the WCF to be the NBA finals, which is worse than what we have now.
This. Celtics and Heat created 2 legit contenders in the east which had none before them other than pistons in 2004, 2005.

[J Shuttlesworth]

This. Celtics and Heat created 2 legit contenders in the east which had none before them other than pistons in 2004, 2005.
Yep. And the ECF should be more competitive if the Knicks weren't such a joke of a franchise. They went from 3rd seed in the East to a 37 win team, and the Nets/Pacers completely underachieved this year... not to mention Rose is waiting for his return.

[stalkerforlife]

Fans of basketball, not just Miami, actually want to see a fair competition. We don't want to watch a dream team full of beta cowards playing against Croatia; that's only acceptable in the Olympics when we are as one as Americans.

Basic logic.

[chopchop20]

If you think about it, winning on the basketball court increases their off-court salaries tremendously. Sponsorships go up, commercials, better deals..... so taking a paycut on your basketball salary can actually increase your non-basketball salaries.

If you took your max basketball salary, but now you have 0 championships, you won't be as famous or get anywhere near as many sponsorships.

If you don't take max deals, your NBA Union will remain pathetically weak. Your strongest leverage (NBA Star players) are bending over and grabbing their ankles.

What incentive do owners have to raise the cap AND salaries if they know players will always punk out?

They just gonna keep paying McDonald prices for Ruths Chris and laughing all the way to the bank :cheers:

[konex]

The owner makes much more money than these guys. He should be paying the luxury tax instead of them taking less money. This collusion is bad for players long term cos all teams will try to use media/fan pressure to make guys take less now. If LeBron can do it...

[mistergreens]

Spurs have been doing this for years. Why is it a problem now?

[chopchop20]

Spurs have been doing this for years. Why is it a problem now?

Has it benefited the players as a whole? Peter Holt could have kept the team together by paying the guys more money. He just didn't have to... because players haven't used the collective bargaining leverage wisely.

[allball]

The cHeat don't need more talent, they need to learn how to play basketball. The Spurs did more with less. The cHeat method is ridiculous they saturate their roster with talent and hope for the best, it isn't good or smart basketball and it is bad for the rest of the league because every franchise deserves some elite talent to draw fans. Instead, Miami, with the worst fan base in all of sports that don't even care about basketball is trying to get all the players that the other franchises fans deserve to watch playing for their teams. The Heat need to learn how to play smarter, not stack the deck.

the Heat have serious front line and defensive issues. it's not just a matter of playing better. they need better players in those areas.

[poido123]

I hope they take huge paycuts. Let s go, do it! :applause: :applause:


You're one fairweather fan that deserves nothing from what Miami does :facepalm

Where does this stop? I mean, what lengths will players go to in stacking a team in their favour?

There needs to be some kind of limit on this shit. If you are an established superstar in their prime, you should not be allowed to take a paycut to gain an advantage.

Set wage limits(both high and low) on superstars in the league and we might get a bit of parity in the league.

[poido123]

Spurs have been doing this for years. Why is it a problem now?


No they haven't.

Duncan is nearly 40 years old.

I don't want to hear what stats he gets, he is nearly 40 years old and gets paid according to his age.

[Mr. Incredible]

You're one fairweather fan that deserves nothing from what Miami does :facepalm

Where does this stop? I mean, what lengths will players go to in stacking a team in their favour?

There needs to be some kind of limit on this shit. If you are an established superstar in their prime, you should not be allowed to take a paycut to gain an advantage.

Set wage limits(both high and low) on superstars in the league and we might get a bit of parity in the league.
I literally laughed out loud. :oldlol:

[poido123]

I literally laughed out loud. :oldlol:


Lebron taking a paycut to fit other great players in, yet loses nothing on state taxes and endorsements.

Cheating muthafcker

[Mr. Incredible]

Lebron taking a paycut to fit other great players in, yet loses nothing on state taxes and endorsements.

Cheating muthafcker
He does it all within the context of the rules. I think that means he's pretty smart, no?

[J Shuttlesworth]

No they haven't.

Duncan is nearly 40 years old.

I don't want to hear what stats he gets, he is nearly 40 years old and gets paid according to his age.
Tony Parker has never gotten paid over 13 million his entire career. Ginobli made under 10 mil the majority of his career... Those two guys are easily worth more. Duncan, despite being a top 5-6 all time player, has never gotten paid the max. In his prime, he was getting 16 mil or less. These guys are all easily worth more but they chose to play below their market value and 5 rings later, look what it has done for them

[J Shuttlesworth]

He does it all in the context of the rules. I think that means he's pretty smart, no?
He moved to a state w/ no state income tax... much like the Spurs

F**K CHEATERS

[poido123]

Tony Parker has never gotten paid over 13 million his entire career. Ginobli made under 10 mil the majority of his career... Those two guys are easily worth more. Duncan, despite being a top 5-6 all time player, has never gotten paid the max. In his prime, he was getting 16 mil or less. These guys are all easily worth more but they chose to play below their market value and 5 rings later, look what it has done for them


That's debatable and you would be hard pressed to find someone who would say they are obviously underpaid.

Gino is old and injury prone. There are a lot of guys in the league who get underpaid because they are injury prone. Nothing to discuss there.

Parker is paid about right. Good penetrator and finisher, nice jumpshot, average passer, no defense, how is he worth more than 13 million?

During the finals, I thought he was a liability for big stretches of games. Again, I don't see anything to discuss here either.

Duncan was paid 21 million in 2011-2012? Went up each year starting at around 16 mill? So that would be about 100 mill for 5 years which is about right?

Again, Miami players in their prime took paycuts and manipulated the cap to gain an advantage. Lebron lost very little in doing so because of the Miami state taxes.

[J Shuttlesworth]

That's debatable and you would be hard pressed to find someone who would say they are obviously underpaid.

Gino is old and injury prone. There are a lot of guys in the league who get underpaid because they are injury prone. Nothing to discuss there.

Parker is paid about right. Good penetrator and finisher, nice jumpshot, average passer, no defense, how is he worth more than 13 million?

During the finals, I thought he was a liability for big stretches of games. Again, I don't see anything to discuss here either.

Duncan was paid 21 million in 2011-2012? Went up each year starting at around 16 mill? So that would be about 100 mill for 5 years which is about right?

Again, Miami players in their prime took paycuts and manipulated the cap to gain an advantage. Lebron lost very little in doing so because of the Miami state taxes.
You seemed to miss the fact that I said Gino never got paid over 10 mil his ENTIRE CAREER including his prime. He's obviously worth a lot more than that since he'd be one of the top PG's in the league on most teams as a starter.

Max contract in the NBA is roughly 24 mil, which Duncan never got paid, and was paid well under that even in his prime.

You're missing the point that other teams would gladly pay these guys more money... hell even the Spurs would themselves pay more money. Parker is definitely worth more than 13 mil. He was putting up 20/7 last year and getting 12.5. Tyreke Evans is making 12 mil to put up 14/5. You really think if the Nets are paying D-Will as much as they are, they wouldn't rather have TP in his place?

You can deny it all you want but these guys are all clearly playing for well under their market value.

and lol @ hard pressed to find people saying they are underpaid. Just about every sports analyst has been comparing the Heat opt-outs possible paycuts to what the Spurs have done over the big 3's career.

[J Shuttlesworth]

And if you're gonna talk about true value of players, Wade clearly isn't worth 20 mil a year at this point. Bosh isn't worth 20 mil either, and the 15ish he is looking for is about right. LeBron is obviously worth a max contract which is approximately what he's looking for to stay w/ the Heat.

[poido123]

And if you're gonna talk about true value of players, Wade clearly isn't worth 20 mil a year at this point. Bosh isn't worth 20 mil either, and the 15ish he is looking for is about right. LeBron is obviously worth a max contract which is approximately what he's looking for to stay w/ the Heat.


I have no problem with Wade taking a paycut.

Bosh on the other hand...He's still in his prime.

Lebron deserves max money though. I'm more dirty about him taking a paycut in 2010, than the other two doing the same this time round.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I have no problem with Wade taking a paycut.

Bosh on the other hand...He's still in his prime.

Lebron deserves max money though. I'm more dirty about him taking a paycut in 2010, than the other two doing the same this time round.
Duncan never took max money in his prime despite clearly being worth it and being offered.

Bosh wouldn't get max money on any team these days anyway. I don't get why Duncan/Ginobli/Parker all playing for under their market value in their prime is no problem for you, but Bosh doing it is... Don't be so hypocritical

[poido123]

Duncan never took max money in his prime despite clearly being worth it and being offered.

Bosh wouldn't get max money on any team these days anyway. I don't get why Duncan/Ginobli/Parker all playing for under their market value in their prime is no problem for you, but Bosh doing it is... Don't be so hypocritical


You keep saying Duncan, but again it's age related and he got paid about right wherre he should of. Same with Parker. Ginobili you might have a case there, but he wasn't grossly underpaid.

You're trying to hard to deflect Lebron's obvious manipulation in 2010.

[J Shuttlesworth]

You keep saying Duncan, but again it's age related and he got paid about right wherre he should of. Same with Parker.

You're trying to hard to deflect Lebron's obvious manipulation in 2010.
I'm not even really talking about LeBron in 2010...

But if you don't think Duncan was ever worth a max contract... I don't even...:banghead: I mean you do realize 03' Duncan, his best year, was getting paid 12 mil... and that was as the only all star on his team, and he was already established as a top player in the league w/ an FMVP

And Ginobli under 10 :banghead:

You still think I'm talking about these guys when they're old but no... I'm talking about PRIME. Ginobli NEVER over 10.5, Parker never over 13.5, Duncan getting paid 12.5 in his ABSOLUTE prime.

[Nuff Said]

The owner makes much more money than these guys. He should be paying the luxury tax instead of them taking less money. This collusion is bad for players long term cos all teams will try to use media/fan pressure to make guys take less now. If LeBron can do it...
Weak ass teams can't afford to do that shit. They need to overpay scrubs just to have a fighting chance at 8th seed. Ppl will always be overpaid in this league.

[TheMan]

Let them take paycuts, as long as has-been Wade is part of the Big 3, they ain't winning shit :oldlol:

[greymatter]

The "collusion", "lack of competitive spirit" arguments had wings 4 years ago. The Heat are no longer the "most loaded" team out there. OKC and LAC arguably have more overall talent than Miami. There's a huge difference between 2010 Wade/Bosh and 2015 Wade/Bosh. Wade and/or Bosh probably don't even make the AS game next season if they played in the West.

Not surprisingly, the biggest whiners of Lebron and Co taking paycuts are primarily the fans of crippled, overpaid, has-beens who're getting 20+M/year to be black holes with negative ROIs who erase any chance of their teams being contenders due to lack of cap flexibility.

Only in the world of retards/imbeciles is placing money ahead of winning considered "alpha" while vice versa considered bitch made, etc. In that case, Andrew Bynum is the most alpha fcuker out there.

[Derka]

If you think about it, winning on the basketball court increases their off-court salaries tremendously. Sponsorships go up, commercials, better deals..... so taking a paycut on your basketball salary can actually increase your non-basketball salaries.

If you took your max basketball salary, but now you have 0 championships, you won't be as famous or get anywhere near as many sponsorships.

By that logic, Robert Horry should still be getting paid on his many endorsement deals for winning seven rings. But your logic is usually pretty awful, so no surprises here.

[Derka]

The way I see it, if we're just gonna have stars colluding to bolster their championship numbers instead of competing against each other...what's the point of a salary cap at all? All it really does is screw the guys who aren't superstars out of money they could be making in winning towns.

The ESPN article that made mention of Miami's Big 3 scaling their pay to give Riley a full mid-level and a biannual, to me, made the most sense. You can get something good for that and improve in a couple of key places. If the Big 3 take insane paycuts just to lure superstar help that also decides to take an insane paycut, that's horseshit.

[dunksby]

If they are rejecting easy millions to have a better chance to win then credit to them.

[J Shuttlesworth]

By that logic, Robert Horry should still be getting paid on his many endorsement deals for winning seven rings. But your logic is usually pretty awful, so no surprises here.
There's a difference between a role player like Horry and all stars like Wade/Bosh. Don't act like you don't know the difference

[SpecialQue]

But I thought Lebron was seeking a max contract and NOT taking a paycut?

[GimmeThat]

is it legal for a team to contact sporting companies regarding to marketing deals with their potential employees?


you know, big market team.


"tell LeBiatch to JUST DO IT, or I'm BUYING ADIDAS from now on"


"hello? hello?"

[gyu]

Somehow for 60 years before 2010 the best players in the league managed to win titles without taking paycuts but now it's the only way. Smh at the number of excuses made for the big 3. Face it none of these guys believe they are championship material without having the most stacked team
Spurs players took payouts to stick together.

[Derka]

There's a difference between a role player like Horry and all stars like Wade/Bosh. Don't act like you don't know the difference

The post I was replying to doesn't acknowledge a difference, ergo neither will I.