Who would be rated highest out of college today?

[Marchesk]

Without knowing their NBA careers.

Russell
Wilt
Alcindor
Walton
Sampson
Olajuwon
Shaq
Oden

Edit: Forgot Ewing - he was pretty highly rated. Something about retiring with his hands full of rings when the Knicks drafted him.

[outbreak]

wilt and shaq maybe?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Wilt Shaq and Kareem

[Marchesk]

Wilt Shaq and Kareem

How would you compare Ewing's stock to those three out of college? I seem to recall he was very highly rated.

[JohnMax]

Westbrook uses the term Brodie on his Twitter account. Is that where people on ISG get that term? link (https://twitter.com/russwest44/status/463905999552655360)

[GimmeThat]

Kareem
Wilt/Shaq
Walton

[Collie]

You should have included Ewing. He was one of the most hyped college players ever, so much so that he was one of the reasons they implemented the lottery in the first place (teams were outright tanking to get him). Probably second only to KAJ (not sure about Wilt) on that list in terms of hype.

I'm leaving out Wilt and Russell, so probably KAJ -> Sampson -> Shaq -> Oden -> Walton -> Hakeem

[Marchesk]

You should have included Ewing. He was one of the most hyped college players ever, so much so that he was one of the reasons they implemented the lottery in the first place (teams were outright tanking to get him). Probably second only to KAJ (not sure about Wilt) on that list in terms of hype.

Yeah, I recall him being hyped a lot at Georgetown. I don't remember what sort of hype Sampson had out of UVA, though.

[Marchesk]

I'm leaving out Wilt and Russell, so probably KAJ -> Sampson -> Shaq -> Oden -> Walton -> Hakeem

Okay, so with Ewing it's KAJ -> Ewing -> Sampson

That's what I was looking for. I'm guessing Wilt was on that level of hype, but it was late 50s instead of 80s, so not quite the same media attention.

[navy]

You should have included Ewing. He was one of the most hyped college players ever, so much so that he was one of the reasons they implemented the lottery in the first place (teams were outright tanking to get him). Probably second only to KAJ (not sure about Wilt) on that list in terms of hype.

I'm leaving out Wilt and Russell, so probably KAJ -> Sampson -> Shaq -> Oden -> Walton -> Hakeem
Rigged Lottery as well. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

The two most hyped players of all-time were Wilt and Kareem.

BTW, Chamberlain was actually drafted while he was still in HS.

Interesting reading...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


As a player for the Overbrook Panthers, Chamberlain averaged 31 points a game during the 1953 high school season and led his team to a 71–62 win against the Northeast High School of his future NBA teammate Guy Rodgers. He scored 34 points, won Overbrook the Public League title and a berth for the Philadelphia city championship game against the winner of the rival Catholic league, West Catholic.[17] In that game, West Catholic triple-teamed Chamberlain the entire game, and despite the center's 29 points, the Panthers lost 54–42.[17]

In his second Overbrook season, Chamberlain continued his prolific scoring, among them scoring a high school record 71 points against Roxborough.[18] The Panthers comfortably won the Public League title after again beating Northeast in which Chamberlain scored 40 points, and later won the city title by defeating South Catholic 74–50. Chamberlain scored 32 points and had led Overbrook to a flawless 19–0 season.[18]

During summer vacations Chamberlain worked as a bellhop in Kutsher's Hotel. Subsequently, owners Milton and Helen Kutsher kept up a lifelong friendship with Wilt, and according to their son Mark, "They were his second set of parents."[19] Red Auerbach, the coach of the Boston Celtics, spotted the talented teenager at Kutscher's and had him play 1-on-1 against Kansas University standout and national champion, B. H. Born, elected the Most Valuable Player of the 1953 NCAA Finals. Chamberlain won 25–10; Born was so dejected that he gave up a promising NBA career and became a tractor engineer ("If there were high school kids that good, I figured I wasn't going to make it to the pros"),[20] and Auerbach wanted Chamberlain to go to a New England university, so he could draft him as a territorial pick for the Celtics, but Chamberlain did not respond.[20]

In Chamberlain's third and final Overbrook season, he continued his high scoring, once logging 74, 78 and 90 points in three consecutive games.[21] The Panthers won the Public League a third time, beating West Philadelphia 78–60, and in the city championship game, they met West Catholic once again. Scoring 35 points, Chamberlain led Overbrook to an easy 83–42 victory.[21] After three years, Chamberlain had led Overbrook to two city championships, logged a 56–3 record and had broken Tom Gola's high school scoring record by scoring 2,252 points, averaging 37.4 points per game.[2][4][22]

After his last Overbrook season, over 200 universities wanted to recruit the basketball prodigy.[3] Among others, UCLA offered Chamberlain the opportunity to become a movie star, the University of Pennsylvania wanted to buy him diamonds, and Chamberlain's Panthers coach Mosenson was even offered a coaching position if he could persuade the center.[23] In his 2004 biography of Chamberlain, Robert Cherry has described that Chamberlain wanted a change and therefore did not want to go to or near Philadelphia (also eliminating New York), was not interested in New England, and snubbed the South because of segregation; leaving the Midwest.[23] In the end, after visiting the University of Kansas, also commonly known as KU, with renowned college coach Phog Allen, Chamberlain then proclaimed he was going to play college basketball at KU.[23]



Kareem's high school resume was almost equally as impressive, and he was, without a doubt, the greatest college player of all-time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kareem_Abdul-Jabbar


From an early age he began his record-breaking basketball accomplishments. In high school, which he started as a 6 foot 8 inch player,[16][17] he led Power Memorial Academy to three straight New York City Catholic championships, a 71-game winning streak, and a 79–2 overall record.[18] This earned him a nickname — "The tower from Power."[19] His 2,067 total points were a New York City high school record.[16] The team won the national high school boys basketball championship when Abdul-Jabbar was in 11th grade, and were runner-up his senior year.[19]

He led UCLA to three straight National Championships, and was a three-time NCAA Tourney MVP. His teams went 88-2 in those three years, and the losses were by scores of 71-69 (Astrodome Game), and 46-44.

The Astrodome Game is still widely regarded as the greatest college game of all-time. UCLA was unbeaten, ranked #1, had a 47 game winning streak, and had never even been tested in his two years to that point. They were facing Elvin Hayes and his unbeaten, and #2 ranked Houston Cougars (a team that they had beaten in the NCAA tourney the year before.)

However, Kareem (Lew Alcindor at the time) had had his eye scratched in the previous contest, and was playing that game partially blind. It would be the worst outing of his college career. He only shot 4-18, and was held to 15 points. Meanwhile Hayes just exploded, scoring 39 points and grabbing 15 rebounds, and Houston pulled off the upset.

The two teams would meet again in the '68 NCAA Semis, and with a healthy Alcindor, and a defensive strategy of fronting Hayes with Mike Lynn, and with Alcindor playing behind him, the Bruins just annihilated Houston, 101-69, in a game that was not even that close. At one point in the second half, UCLA led by 44 points. Alcindor decisively outplayed Hayes, who only scored 10 points on 3-10 shooting. I haven't done any research on it, but I suspect that the was the largest margin of victory by a #2 team against a #1 in NCAA history.

As spectacular as Alcindor's college career was, had freshmen been allowed to play at that time, there is a good chance he would have won FOUR straight NCAA titles (and likely FOUR Tourney MVPs.)

Early on in his freshman season, UCLA scheduled a pre-season "scrimmage" between that freshman team, and the varsity. The varsity team was ranked #1 in the country in pre-season polls (albeit, the two-time defending NC's had lost Gail Goodrich to the NBA draft.) Alcindor led the freshman team to a solid win. The varsity would "only" go 18-8, and didn't qualify for the tournament, BUT, with the next season UCLA started FOUR sophs (of course Alcindor was one of them), and they steam-rolled to a 30-0 record, and were never challenged en route to a NC. Alcindor averaged 29 ppg on a .667 FG% that year (the FG% mark was an all-time record at the time BTW), which were his career highs.

In his last college game, in the '69 Finals, he poured in 37 points, on 15-20 FG/FGA (and 7-9 from the line), with 20 rebounds, and led UCLA to another smashing win, beating Rick Mount's Purdue team, 92-72.

Again, Alcindor was unequivocally the greatest college player of all-time.

[Rooster]

Most definitely Kareem.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Shaq wasn't even regarded as the best center on his LSU team when he arrived. Stanley Roberts was, and in fact, Roberts used to outplay Shaq in scrimmages.

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2012/12/former_lsu_basketball_player_s_1.html


A raw talent as a college freshman, O'Neal credited his improvement and eventual superstardom to having to work against the more polished Roberts every day in practice. Teammates would stop what they were doing to watch the two behemoths go at each other one-on-one. O'Neal could hang with Roberts around the basket, but was no match for him when Roberts would step outside and rain down feathery jump shots.

"He had it all; he was unstoppable," O'Neal said in a Sports Illustrated interview in 2009. "He was the better player."

[BoutPractice]

Regarding most hyped prospects of all time, there is probably a historical answer. From what I've heard it would be Kareem.

If you were to ask me, who would you take in a draft, as they appeared when they were of draft age, there is a clear top 3 in my mind:

- 1st: Kareem. The combination of perfect tools (size, skill and mobility) and historically great college career makes this a no-brainer.
- 2nd: Wilt. Also statistically dominant in college, but doesn't come with the same "winner" label. Ridiculous set of tools (with the advantage of strength over Jabbar but slightly less fluidity) combined with production makes it impossible to pass him up.
- 3rd: Shaq. Tool wise, less overall "balance" than a Kareem and Wilt but an absurd dose of size and strength combined with rare mobility. Less impressive college player than Kareem and Wilt, though still dominant.

After that, I'm not sure. But Oden is last on the list. He was a great center prospect by mid 00s centers standard, not by all-time standards. Despite great physical tools and impressive college production considering the circumstances, his basketball skills were fairly limited and his movements a bit mechanical. You didn't see a future great scorer. Great defensive anchor, certainly, but not a scorer.

[LAZERUSS]

Regarding most hyped prospects of all time, there is probably a historical answer. From what I've heard it would be Kareem.

If you were to ask me, who would you take in a draft, as they appeared when they were of draft age, there is a clear top 3 in my mind:

- 1st: Kareem. The combination of perfect tools (size, skill and mobility) and historically great college career makes this a no-brainer.
- 2nd: Wilt. Also statistically dominant in college, but doesn't come with the same "winner" label. Ridiculous set of tools (with the advantage of strength over Jabbar but slightly less fluidity) combined with production makes it impossible to pass him up.
- 3rd: Shaq. Tool wise, less overall "balance" than a Kareem and Wilt but an absurd dose of size and strength combined with rare mobility. Less impressive college player than Kareem and Wilt, though still dominant.

After that, I'm not sure. But Oden is last on the list. He was a great center prospect by mid 00s centers standard, not by all-time standards. Despite great physical tools and impressive college production considering the circumstances, his basketball skills were fairly limited and his movements a bit mechanical. You didn't see a future great scorer. Great defensive anchor, certainly, but not a scorer.

To be fair to Wilt, he had virtually no help at KU. He was often defended by FOUR players (as was the case in his soph title game.) In his junior season he missed three games due to an illness, and his team lost all three games. Because of that, they didn't qualify for the NCAA Tournament.

He became frustrated by facing stalls and brutal defenses in college, and quit after his junior year, and toured with the Globetrotters in what would have been his senior season.

And once again, no one else dominated the NBA in their first year like Chamberlain did. In his very first game he scored 43 points, grabbed 28 rebounds, and reportedly blocked 17 shots. He would go on to shatter the scoring record by averaging 37.6 ppg (which BTW, would STILL be the all-time record, had he not smashed it again repeatedly), and also blew away Russell's rebounding mark by FOUR rpg. He not only won ROY, but won a decisive MVP. He took what had been a last-place and rapidly declining team to a 49-26 record. He shattered records in the first round of the playoffs in beating Syracuse (a team that had taken the champion Celtics to seven games the year before), and then dominated Russell in the EDF's (albeit, losing a game six by two points.)

[CavaliersFTW]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnjC0nm2q5U

[Fork]

Kareem

[LAZERUSS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnjC0nm2q5U

As great a college career as Russell had, he was not considered on the Wilt or Kareem level.


In the 1956 NBA Draft, Boston Celtics coach Red Auerbach had set his sights on Russell, thinking his defensive toughness and rebounding prowess were the missing pieces the Celtics needed.[1] In retrospect, Auerbach's thoughts were unorthodox. In that period, centers and forwards were defined by their offensive output, and their ability to play defense was secondary.[21]

However, Boston's chances of getting Russell seemed slim. Because the Celtics had finished second in the previous season and the worst teams had the highest draft picks, the Celtics had slipped too low in the draft order to pick Russell. In addition, Auerbach had already used his territorial pick to acquire talented forward Tom Heinsohn. But Auerbach knew that the Rochester Royals, who owned the first draft pick, already had a skilled rebounder in Maurice Stokes, were looking for an outside shooting guard and were unwilling to pay Russell the $25,000 signing bonus he requested.[22] The St. Louis Hawks, who owned the second pick, drafted Russell, but were vying for Celtics center Ed Macauley, a six-time All-Star who had roots in St. Louis. Auerbach agreed to trade Macauley, who had previously asked to be traded to St. Louis in order to be with his sick son, if the Hawks gave up Russell. The owner of St Louis called Auerbach later and demanded more in the trade. Not only did he want Macauley, who was the Celtics premier player at the time, he wanted Cliff Hagan, who had been serving in the military for three years and had not yet played for the Celtics. After much debate, Auerbach agreed to give up Hagan, and the Hawks made the trade.[23]

During that same draft, Boston also drafted guard K. C. Jones, Russell's former USF teammate. Thus, in one night, the Celtics managed to draft three future Hall of Famers: Russell, Jones and Heinsohn.[1] The Russell draft-day trade was later called one of the most important trades in the history of North American sports.[22]


And his high school career was nothing to shout about, either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell


Russell was ignored by college recruiters and did not receive a single letter of interest until recruiter Hal DeJulio from the University of San Francisco (USF) watched him in a high school game. DeJulio was not impressed by Russell's meager scoring and "atrocious fundamentals",[11] but sensed that the young center had an extraordinary instinct for the game, especially in clutch situations.[11] When DeJulio offered Russell a scholarship, the latter eagerly accepted.[8] Sports journalist John Taylor described it as a watershed in Russell's life, because Russell realized that basketball was his one chance to escape poverty and racism; as a consequence, Russell swore to make the best of it.[5]

[coin24]

How does this Lazeruss guy sniff out every thread wilt McGee is mentioned in??:lol

[LAZERUSS]

How does this Lazeruss guy sniff out every thread wilt McGee is mentioned in??:lol

And why do you care?

[coin24]

And why do you care?

Do you get an alert or something anytime wilt is mentioned??

[LAZERUSS]

How does this Lazeruss guy sniff out every thread wilt McGee is mentioned in??:lol

BTW, I have also commented on Kareem (Alcindor), Shaq, and Russell. Now, how about you contribute something worthwhile for a change?

[Rooster]

BTW, Shaq wasn't even regarded as the best center on his LSU team when he arrived. Stanley Roberts was, and in fact, Roberts used to outplay Shaq in scrimmages.

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2012/12/former_lsu_basketball_player_s_1.html

Yes Shaq said it and he also said about Stanley just love to party that playing basketball. This is the reason why he stayed more at LSU, he knew he has to work harder on his game because he knew how talented Stanley was.

[LAZERUSS]

Interesting sidenote to the topic...

Rookie Kareem's (Alcindor) very first game was against veteran Walt Bellamy. KAJ scored 29 points, on 12-27 shooting, with 12 rebounds. Bellamy scored 25 and had something like 10 rebounds. Bellamy would go on to average 11.6 ppg and 8.9 rpg that year.

How about Bellamy's first meeting with Wilt (who was in his third season)? Keep in mind that this would also be Bellamy's greatest season (31.6 ppg. 19.0 rpg, and a .519 FG%.)

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain


"When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-11, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, 'Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half.' Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"

Chamberlain outscored Bellamy in that game, 51-14.

Of course, it would be the first of MANY 50+ games he had against Bellamy (hell, he had an entire season, covering 10 H2H games against Bellamy, in which he averaged 52.7 ppg.)

Incidently, in Wilt's last regular season H2H with Bellamy, in the 68-69 season (the year before Kareem arrived), Chamberlain outscored Bellamy, 34-18,and outrebounded Bellamy, 27-9, ...and all while shooting 14-14 from the field, and to go along with 11 blocked shots.

[LAZERUSS]

Without knowing their NBA careers.

Russell
Wilt
Alcindor
Walton
Sampson
Olajuwon
Shaq
Oden

Edit: Forgot Ewing - he was pretty highly rated. Something about retiring with his hands full of rings when the Knicks drafted him.

1. Either Wilt or Kareem. Likely Wilt.
3. Shaq
4. Sampson
5. Walton
6. Oden
7. Hakeem
8. Russell

[LAZERUSS]

As for Ewing, he and Sampson actually went H2H in college...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2006/dec/11/20061211-125416-4166r/?page=all

[QUOTE]Sampson was a 7-foot-4 senior from Harrisonburg, Va., who had been the nation