would Kobe have had as good a career if he protected his field goal percentage?

[kennethgriffin]

people say kobes biggest flaw is shot selection

but if he only took open shots, passed up shots all game, passed the ball at the end of the game every single time cause of the other teams strategy to make someone else beat them.

would he have been anywhere near as successful?

i don't think so

kobe swings big and misses big. but at the same time he hits big.

theres a saying... "you gotta spend money to make money"


kobe is a risk taker. guys like lebron arent. its why lebrons always falling short and isnt getting the most out of his career.

kobe isnt afraid of failure. lebron is

which is why kobes 5 for 7

and lebrons


http://i62.tinypic.com/2vtcy83.png

[J Shuttlesworth]

Well if he went say 13/24 instead of 6/24, it would've been like a 14 point lead for the Lakers.

So I would say yes

[STATUTORY]

if kobe didnt heave a half court shot every other game, his lifetime fg% would have gone up by 2 percent.

then allk the sudden he's not a chucker according to the genius bran fans :facepalm

[dubeta]

No because only way kobe can shoot a good percentage is if he gets only like 15 pts a game

[moe94]

if kobe didnt heave a half court shot every other game, his lifetime fg% would have gone up by 2 percent.

then allk the sudden he's not a chucker according to the genius bran fans :facepalm

You cannot possibly believe this.

[STATUTORY]

You cannot possibly believe this.
thats what 1% difference in FG comes down to. just do the math

[Jameerthefear]

You cannot possibly believe this.
He really does. He's that dumb.

[Nash]

if kobe protected his fg% he would be a regular player. he needs all of these shots to get to the expected amounts of points that is needed for a superstar. Jordan, LBJ and Durant for example can score the expected 25 points per game with less tries. That simple really.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

thats what 1% difference in FG comes down to. just do the math
Depends. I doubt Kobe has taken that many more half court shots in his career per game than LeBron

[dubeta]

if kobe protected his fg% he would be a regular player. he needs all of these shots to get to the expected amounts of points that is needed for a superstar. Jordan, LBJ and Durant for example can score the expected 25 points per game with less tries. That simple really.

this is true, kobe isnt as great of a scorer as his stans think, he's in the james harden/ prime joe johnson range

[fpliii]

if kobe didnt heave a half court shot every other game, his lifetime fg% would have gone up by 2 percent.

then allk the sudden he's not a chucker according to the genius bran fans :facepalm

thats what 1% difference in FG comes down to. just do the math

Well, basketball-reference.com records heaves now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Kobe has 46 attempts in the regular season in that span, 11 in the playoffs.

If somebody is bored enough, stats.nba.com has play-by-play going back to 96-97, Kobe's rookie season, so we could fill in the blanks for his first four years.

But for 00-01 to the present, remove the 1-46 in the regular season and you get 9571-21031, or .455 shooting (up from .454). For the playoffs, remove 0-11, and you get 2014-4488, or .449 shooting (up from .448).

So if by 2% difference, you mean .1% difference, you're absolutely correct.

[kennethgriffin]

He really does. He's that dumb.


i dunno kobe does pretty much take nearly every single last second shot at the end of the quarter or shot clock

i'd say maybe 20% of them are good looks

he might only make 30-35% ranging anywhere from hard 2's to normal threes and even mid to full court heaves


i'd say out of the 20 shots kobe takes a game.. i'd say atleast 3 of them are shots he didnt want to take but was forced to


3x82 = 246 shots per full season

this started around 1999 or 2000

14 years

246 x 14 = 3444


out of those 3444 extra shots he might make 35% of them.

3444 - 35% = 2238 missed shots

24,374 career field goal attempts for kobe

24,374 - 2238 = new shot total 22,136

11,055 career field goals made for kobe

the % for 11,055 makes with 22,136 shots is 50% career fg's instead of kobes 45%



so those extra few shots actually do make all the difference

[navy]

Well, basketball-reference.com records heaves now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Kobe has 46 attempts in the regular season in that span, 11 in the playoffs.

If somebody is bored enough, stats.nba.com has play-by-play going back to 96-97, Kobe's rookie season, so we could fill in the blanks for his first four years.

But for 00-01 to the present, remove the 1-46 in the regular season and you get 9571-21031, or .455 shooting (up from .454). For the playoffs, remove 0-11, and you get 2014-4488, or .449 shooting (up from .448).

So if by 2% difference, you mean .1% difference, you're absolutely correct.
Do you know where I can find end of shot clock stats?

[fpliii]

Do you know where I can find end of shot clock stats?
Not sure. 82games.com records that I think.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Well, basketball-reference.com records heaves now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Kobe has 46 attempts in the regular season in that span, 11 in the playoffs.

If somebody is bored enough, stats.nba.com has play-by-play going back to 96-97, Kobe's rookie season, so we could fill in the blanks for his first four years.

But for 00-01 to the present, remove the 1-46 in the regular season and you get 9571-21031, or .455 shooting (up from .454). For the playoffs, remove 0-11, and you get 2014-4488, or .449 shooting (up from .448).

So if by 2% difference, you mean .1% difference, you're absolutely correct.


LOL ether. How many did Lebron shoot? You also have to consider how many shots lebron shoots in order to see if it would actually give an advantage to kobe.

[STATUTORY]

Well, basketball-reference.com records heaves now:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html

Kobe has 46 attempts in the regular season in that span, 11 in the playoffs.

If somebody is bored enough, stats.nba.com has play-by-play going back to 96-97, Kobe's rookie season, so we could fill in the blanks for his first four years.

But for 00-01 to the present, remove the 1-46 in the regular season and you get 9571-21031, or .455 shooting (up from .454). For the playoffs, remove 0-11, and you get 2014-4488, or .449 shooting (up from .448).

So if by 2% difference, you mean .1% difference, you're absolutely correct.

I didnt mean literally halfcourt shots.. and this doesn't even include all shots at end of half where kobe would try and get a shot off and bron would just protect his fg and hold on to the ball.

point is, kobe takes a lot of bail out shots and that shouldn't be held against him. because they are options, there's only upside tothose shots and no downside.

[J Shuttlesworth]

LOL ether. How many did Lebron shoot? You also have to consider how many shots lebron shoots in order to see if it would actually give an advantage to kobe.
He's attempted 31 and made 2...

As always, LeBron more efficient :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

this is true, kobe isnt as great of a scorer as his stans think, he's in the james harden/ prime joe johnson range


rick barry is arguably the greatest shooter ever.

he shot 45%



guys who take tough shots have lower percentages

it doesnt mean theyre bad shooters. theyre just more capable of scoring with defenders on them


think of if a guy like steve kerr had the defensive attention kobe bryant has... and kobe had the defensive attention steve kerr had


kerrs 40% wide open threes looks nice

and kobes defended 35% threes looks average

but if kerr had kobes defense his 40% would go down to 5-10%

and if kobe had kerrs defense his 35% would go up to 55-60%

great shoots would average the highest three point percentages of all time if they had the type of wide open looks role players get


this is also why lebrons three point percentage is higher than kobes

its a few points higher cause defenders dare him to shoot. while kobes a threat to score after passing midcourt

[J Shuttlesworth]

I didnt mean literally halfcourt shots..

if kobe didnt heave a half court shot every other game, his lifetime fg% would have gone up by 2 percent.


:biggums:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

He's attempted 31 and made 2...

As always, LeBron more efficient :applause:
Thats in 3 less seasons too.

[dubeta]

rick barry is arguably the greatest shooter ever.

he shot 45%



guys who take tough shots have lower percentages

it doesnt mean theyre bad shooters. theyre just more capable of scoring with defenders on them


think of if a guy like steve kerr had the defensive attention kobe bryant has... and kobe had the defensive attention steve kerr had


kerrs 40% wide open threes looks nice

and kobes defended 35% threes looks average

but if kerr had kobes defense his 40% would go down to 5-10%

and if kobe had kerrs defense his 35% would go up to 55-60%

great shoots would average the highest three point percentages of all time if they had the type of wide open looks role players get


this is also why lebrons three point percentage is higher than kobes

its a few points higher cause defenders dare him to shoot. while kobes a threat to score after passing midcourt

Then why doesnt kobe take the easy shots lebron takes and end up with the same 27 points? They both get 27-28 ppg but 57% fg vs 45%

[Jameerthefear]

If Kobe was capable of being as efficient as Lebron he would be. He isn't.

[kennethgriffin]

Then why doesnt kobe take the easy shots lebron takes and end up with the same 27 points? They both get 27-28 ppg but 57% fg vs 45%


kobe doesnt get as many easy shots as lebron


beyond 18 feet defenders let lebron shoot. and its why he makes a solid percentage from three but is such a poor midrange shooter.

because when hes midrange defenders actually try


kobe has to take difficult shots or pass cause he has that type of defensive pressure everywhere on the court.

and sure kobe could pass every single time up the floor and he'd get a ton of unofficial hockey assists. but you cant always rely on role players to come through.

whats a given is kobe shooting 45% and getting to the line 10 times a game so he can have a great true shooting % and be efficient overall. its a better option and the winning formula thats equaled 5 world titles

[kennethgriffin]

If Kobe was capable of being as efficient as Lebron he would be. He isn't.


kobe would have to become a much worse shooter to be as efficient as lebron... cause then defenders would beg him to shoot and dare him to make wide open long range shots.

but defenders actually respect kobes range...

[knicksman]

its like saying youre a genius because of good grades on a shity course. Its about context. ill take a passing grade on an engg course over good grades on an easy course. Theres a reason engineers are still more succesful. Just like kobe being more succesful than bran despite having better teammates because he takes on the most difficult role. Ill take a 46% percentage if those points came when the game is tight during 4th quarters rather 50% where those points came during 1st quarters or the team is down 20+. But thats bran fans for you, they dont have the IQ to analyze context. Theres a reason they judge players based on stats only because they dont have the logic to go further

[Jameerthefear]

kobe would have to become a much worse shooter to be as efficient as lebron... cause then defenders would beg him to shoot and dare him to make wide open long range shots.

but defenders actually respect kobes range...
is it possible that someone is this dumb?

[kennethgriffin]

its like saying youre a genius because of good grades on a shity course. Its about context. ill take a passing grade on an engg course over good grades on an easy course. Theres a reason engineers are still more succesful. Just like kobe being more succesful than bran despite having better teammates because he takes on the most difficult role. Ill take a 46% percentage if those points came when the game is tight during 4th quarters rather 50% where those points came during 1st quarters or the team is down 20+. But thats bran fans for you, they dont have the IQ to analyze context. Theres a reason they judge players based on stats only because they dont have the logic to go further


exactly..



kobes the best difficult shot maker in nba history

lebrons an above average easy shot maker


lebrons efficient. but not god like. hes really good at picking his spots

however... kobes the best at his craft.

he once said that certain teams are demoralized by his scoring explosions and difficult shot making. it breaks their spirit


he takes the life right out of them..

thats like playing defense with your offense.

[kennethgriffin]

is it possible that someone is this dumb?


is it possible that you missed the entire 2013 nba finals and didnt pay attention to greg popovich when he mimicked my exact words on how they played lebron all series.

i think it took him till game 7 before he finally started hitting those wide open shots they were willfully giving him

it was the spurs gameplan all along.

woulda worked too if not for ray allen

[J Shuttlesworth]

All kenneth is saying is that LeBron is better at creating easy shots for himself. That's why he's more efficient, and a better basketball player. Glad kenneth sees the light

[dubeta]

All kenneth is saying is that LeBron is better at creating easy shots for himself. That's why he's more efficient, and a better basketball player. Glad kenneth sees the light

LOL this is true

his argument, is that lebron gets easy looks for 3's so he makes them

But if he is MAKING his 3's, then wouldnt the defendes start guarding him tight???

Kenneth thinks LeBron keeps making open 3's and defenders keep willingly giving it to him :facepalm

[Droid101]

All kenneth is saying is that LeBron is better at creating easy shots for himself. That's why he's more efficient, and a better basketball player. Glad kenneth sees the light
Wonder why he didn't create more of those 57% shots during the finals, eh?

[Jameerthefear]

Wonder why he didn't create more of those 57% shots during the finals, eh?
Are you retarded?

[Droid101]

Are you retarded?
Instead of going right for the ad hominem argument, care to address my question?

If you are shooting so well, why shoot so few shots? Simple question.

[navy]

So Lebron's higher efficiency inside allows him to have higher efficiency outside than Kobe.

Im missing the part where that's a bad thing...

[Jameerthefear]

Instead of going right for the ad hominem argument, care to address my question?

If you are shooting so well, why shoot so few shots? Simple question.
You realize what % he shot in this finals right? It's not hard to look it up bud.

[LoneyROY7]

people say kobes biggest flaw is shot selection

but if he only took open shots, passed up shots all game, passed the ball at the end of the game every single time cause of the other teams strategy to make someone else beat them.

would he have been anywhere near as successful?

i don't think so

kobe swings big and misses big. but at the same time he hits big.

theres a saying... "you gotta spend money to make money"


kobe is a risk taker. guys like lebron arent. its why lebrons always falling short and isnt getting the most out of his career.

kobe isnt afraid of failure. lebron is

which is why kobes 5 for 7

and lebrons


http://i62.tinypic.com/2vtcy83.png

So you're saying Kobe is a feast or famine type hitter? Either a home-run or strikeout?

Those guys are a dime-a-dozen in baseball.

[Droid101]

You realize what % he shot in this finals right? It's not hard to look it up bud.
57%, and 52% on threes.

So, since he was shooting about 10% better than everyone but Bosh, why shoot only 18 shots per game?

[TylerOO]

I didnt mean literally halfcourt shots.. and this doesn't even include all shots at end of half where kobe would try and get a shot off and bron would just protect his fg and hold on to the ball.

point is, kobe takes a lot of bail out shots and that shouldn't be held against him. because they are options, there's only upside tothose shots and no downside.

Keep backpedaling. Get ethered by a fellow Laker fan.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You realize what % he shot in this finals right? It's not hard to look it up bud.

What does LeBron's shooting % have to do with that posters question?

Are you suggesting that because his FG% was HIGH he didn't need to shoot more? :oldlol:


All kenneth is saying is that LeBron is better at creating easy shots for himself. That's why he's more efficient, and a better basketball player. Glad kenneth sees the light

That he relies on his athleticism whereas Kobe, who doesn't have Bron's physical advantages, has to use his 'skill'.

Either way, it's a silly argument.

[Jameerthefear]

57%, and 52% on threes.

So, since he was shooting about 10% better than everyone but Bosh, why shoot only 18 shots per game?
Because that's the kind of player he is. He looks to get others involved and since everyone else but him played like absolute shit, it didn't work out.

[kennethgriffin]

All kenneth is saying is that LeBron is better at creating easy shots for himself. That's why he's more efficient, and a better basketball player. Glad kenneth sees the light



LOL this is true

his argument, is that lebron gets easy looks for 3's so he makes them

But if he is MAKING his 3's, then wouldnt the defendes start guarding him tight???

Kenneth thinks LeBron keeps making open 3's and defenders keep willingly giving it to him :facepalm


you guys actually believe lebron "creates" the lack of defensive respect when hes shooting those stand still isolation three pointers?



i guess you could say that. but hes creating it by being known as a guy who shoots threes as well as another guy whos double teamed

its still what the defense would rather a guy do. not defending lebron is like defending him

anyone else with actual skill for shooting whos wide open all day at three point range would do allot more damage

defenses know they can get away with it



the evidence is 2 for 5

[knicksman]

So Lebron's higher efficiency inside allows him to have higher efficiency outside than Kobe.

Im missing the part where that's a bad thing...

because it makes bosh a spot up shooter to open the paint for him. And during tight situations, theres no easy shot in the paint so you have to take the toughest shot-which is the midrange game. Or else no one will score for you. And thats where superstars/leaders are needed. Yet lebron is nowhere to be found. Hes only good when they dont need him yet-during 1st quarters or their team being down by 20+.

[Hey Yo]

rick barry is arguably the greatest shooter ever.

he shot 45%



guys who take tough shots have lower percentages

it doesnt mean theyre bad shooters. theyre just more capable of scoring with defenders on them


think of if a guy like steve kerr had the defensive attention kobe bryant has... and kobe had the defensive attention steve kerr had


kerrs 40% wide open threes looks nice

and kobes defended 35% threes looks average

but if kerr had kobes defense his 40% would go down to 5-10%

and if kobe had kerrs defense his 35% would go up to 55-60%

great shoots would average the highest three point percentages of all time if they had the type of wide open looks role players get


this is also why lebrons three point percentage is higher than kobes

its a few points higher cause defenders dare him to shoot. while kobes a threat to score after passing midcourt
It's ok for a player to take low % shots (instead of passing the ball) because he's more capable of making it? That's asinine logic.

I can understand if the shot clock is winding down, but clearly that's not the case with Kobe. He'll take low % shots regardless of time on the clock and who's on him. In his mind, he can't achieve being MJ's replica if he doesn't take ill-advised shots. The one big difference is that MJ converted more of his ill-advised shots.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wonder why he didn't create more of those 57% shots during the finals, eh?
His scoring wasn't the problem. He had a good finals on the scoring end, it was other aspects of his game that was lacking like playmaking and defense.

Jordan shot 53% one season too.. It's like asking why he didn't average 60 a game if he was shooting such a high %

[J Shuttlesworth]

W
That he relies on his athleticism whereas Kobe, who doesn't have Bron's physical advantages, has to use his 'skill'.

Either way, it's a silly argument.
Ok but nobody really denies that Kobe is more "skilled" than LeBron when it comes to scoring. He can certainly hit tougher shots where LeBron is better at using his athleticism to make easy shots.

[STATUTORY]

Ok but nobody really denies that Kobe is more "skilled" than LeBron when it comes to scoring. He can certainly hit tougher shots where LeBron is better at using his athleticism to make easy shots.
lebron can only get easy shots against weak defenses

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ok but nobody really denies that Kobe is more "skilled" than LeBron when it comes to scoring. He can certainly hit tougher shots where LeBron is better at using his athleticism to make easy shots.

Which is why I said its silly. KObe is a better scorer than Lebron, comfortably.

[kennethgriffin]

lebron can only get easy shots against weak defenses

exactly... i never said lebron gets these wide open easy looks every game

but when he does against bad teams. he fills up his stat sheet

against great teams lebron basically disappears

like 2011... take away his easy shots and he doesnt have a clue what to do


kobe however would still find a way to score

[J Shuttlesworth]

lebron can only get easy shots against weak defenses
Why did he average 28 ppg against Kawhi Leonard, and the Spurs who were the top 3 defense in the league this year? And he also shot 56% against the Pacers who were #1 defense this year?

Last year, he averaged like 29/10 against the Pacers who were the #1 defense in the league.

Meanwhile, every time Kobe went to the finals and faced an Eastern team, his FG% would drop significantly.

[knicksman]

Why did he average 28 ppg against Kawhi Leonard, and the Spurs who were the top 3 defense in the league this year? And he also shot 56% against the Pacers who were #1 defense this year?

Last year, he averaged like 29/10 against the Pacers who were the #1 defense in the league.

Meanwhile, every time Kobe went to the finals and faced an Eastern team, his FG% would drop significantly.

maybe because they are getting blown out? Defenses tend to lax once their opponent is down 20. And thats when lebron scores or during 1st quarters when defenses arent tight but when its the 4th quarter where his team is down only 7, where is he?LOL I wouldnt be even be surprised that his cramps was exaggerated coz hes scared.

[ArbitraryWater]

Which is why I said its silly. KObe is a better scorer than Lebron, comfortably.

:biggums:

:hammerhead:

[ArbitraryWater]

exactly... i never said lebron gets these wide open easy looks every game

but when he does against bad teams. he fills up his stat sheet

against great teams lebron basically disappears

like 2011... take away his easy shots and he doesnt have a clue what to do


kobe however would still find a way to score

But Kobe didn't find a way to score..

He scored 22 in game 2, 17 in game 3 and 17 in game 4... On worse efficiency than Bron... While Bron had his worst series ever...


:oldlol:

[ralph_i_el]

i dunno kobe does pretty much take nearly every single last second shot at the end of the quarter or shot clock

i'd say maybe 20% of them are good looks

he might only make 30-35% ranging anywhere from hard 2's to normal threes and even mid to full court heaves


i'd say out of the 20 shots kobe takes a game.. i'd say atleast 3 of them are shots he didnt want to take but was forced to


3x82 = 246 shots per full season

this started around 1999 or 2000

14 years

246 x 14 = 3444


out of those 3444 extra shots he might make 35% of them.

3444 - 35% = 2238 missed shots

24,374 career field goal attempts for kobe

24,374 - 2238 = new shot total 22,136

11,055 career field goals made for kobe

the % for 11,055 makes with 22,136 shots is 50% career fg's instead of kobes 45%



so those extra few shots actually do make all the difference

Somebody did the actually math and you're wrong:facepalm

[Lebron23]

Multiple MVP's. and stealing one of the finals MVP's from Shaq. Kobe is a great NBA player, but he's only shooting 40% from the field in 7 NBA Finals appearance.