Phil's Next Move?

[el gringos]

The Knicks fan base on ISH is always content w the idea that waiting for a superstar to knock on the door and come over for free using Capspace is the only way to go. And if you tell them to wait a year for that shot in the dark they'll happily do that. If you tell them to wait two years that's fine too.



Bringing back Carmelo is priority 1,2, and 3. Loser mindset: let him go, you can just sign 2 guys better than him next year.



But what if Phil doesn't have that loser mindset that you just wait and it will all happen for you? What if he wants to get better now and control how he does it?


Calderon/shumpert/Larkin/prigioni
Jr smith/Hardaway jr/thanasis A/Ellington
_______/cleanthony early
amare/Lamar odom?
Bargnani/dalembert


You think that's a roster to sell Carmelo on returning to? You think Phil wants to bring that unbalanced group back or does he have another big trade coming?


I think he uses amare's expirer along with whichever it takes of hardaway, Larkin, shumpert, thanasis, dalembert to get 2-3 rotation players from a team that wants to start over


I'd love to see some ideas thrown out but expect mostly hate from those who have been beaten into a loser mentality. This thread will be worth it to me though if there is any realistic ideas thrown out.

Obviously all the assets for Kevin Love or Lebron is option 1 but I can't even call those realistic hopes (which they'll know if it's realistic or not in the first few days of free agency) either one would take that player forcing his way to ny and giving his team no other option.

So realistically?

[el gringos]

Best I can come up with:


Bucks get: amare, Tim hardaway jr, Larkin, thanasis A, dalembert, Ellington, prigioni


Knicks get: sanders, illyasova, Zaza, ok mayo



Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
_______/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza



That team is a top 2 team in the east and gives Carmelo his best chance to win. Oh yeah and fits the triangle perfectly

[crisoner]

They should do a total rebuild.....

Build a good foundation

[el gringos]

They should do a total rebuild.....

Build a good foundation
What does that mean?


Is shumpert, Larkin, hard away jr and cleanthony the foundation?


That would please the majority of knick fans here. Because you know- in a few years Durant and Lebron will really want to to come over because of cap space and those guys.


The foundation is in place. It's Phil/fisher/triangle and it's Carmelo/jr smith/bargnani, and now Calderon. All that's left is adding the right pieces and there's no reason when you have an owner willing to pay to go from an 80-90 million dollar payroll to a 65 even "IF" the superstar falls in your lap.

[D-FENS]

MWP will be back, I bet.

Do the Knicks have their 2015 first rounder? If so, they should tank and try get Okafor

[D-FENS]

Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
_______/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza



That team is a top 2 team in the east and gives Carmelo his best chance to win. Oh yeah and fits the triangle perfectly

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[el gringos]

MWP will be back, I bet.

Do the Knicks have their 2015 first rounder? If so, they should tank and try get Okafor
That fits into the loser mindset

Calderon/Larkin
Hard away jr/thanasis
Shumpert/early
_______/______
Okafor_______


they'll never be able to fight free agents away


But with no pick in 16 do you really think Phil wants to watch another terrible season followed by the nugget or raptors picking top 5

[Smook A.]

Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
_______/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza



That team is a top 2 team in the east
You're joking right? :lol

[hawksdogsbraves]

He needs to tank and clear cap space in 2015, then make a run at the big FA's and pair them with a top 10 pick. In 2015 you've got guys like Rondo, Marc Gasol, Asik, Dragic, Love and Aldridge as UFA's, though I'm sure some of them will sign on before hitting FA.

Trying to win in 2015 will only serve to set the franchise back, the roster is god awful and Melo is good as gone.

[el gringos]

You're joking right? :lol
How many teams in the east do you put above this?


Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
Carmelo/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza

[el gringos]

. In 2015 you've got guys like Rondo, Marc Gasol, Asik, Dragic, Love and Aldridge as UFA's, though I'm sure some of them will sign on before hitting FA.


That's the whole point. That list will continue to shrink until all you have left is 10 million dollar guys that will come to ny for 15 mill.


Why is a free agent signing for cap space and losing nothing such a sure bet when it never happens?

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Best I can come up with:


Bucks get: amare, Tim hardaway jr, Larkin, thanasis A, dalembert, Ellington, prigioni


Knicks get: sanders, illyasova, Zaza, ok mayo



Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
_______/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza



That team is a top 2 team in the east and gives Carmelo his best chance to win. Oh yeah and fits the triangle perfectly

No way in hell I would give away Tim Hardaway's potential for a scrub like OJ mayo whose shown he can't even dominate on a 15 win team.

[Rameek]

I really believe that Zen has a few moves left. I firmly believe that he has things cooking if Melo is here and I firmly believe he has a plan if Melo leaves.

I think he may have let Melo know what deals can be made if he comes back. So basically it would be up to Melo to decide that. Once his decision is made I am sure something could happen once he does. I think the prudent thing though isnt to just jump out there making moves for the sake of making moves. This organization has a torrid and infamous history for doing bold and idiotic moves. Finally its time to operate out of intelligence and not emotion (panic and fear or for ticket sales).

Of course if Melo leaves its time to rebuild and pray for a lottery pick. Every franchise goes through a cycle. The Knicks hasnt ever totally rebuilt properly with the right FO. We picked Gallinari 6th and the next year Jordan Hill 8th. At least this time we have a good brain-trust and maybe we will be fortunate enough to get someone with talent.

What you call a loser mentality is called intelligent reconstruction. You want to retool on the fly without thinking long-term. Every organization goes through the cycle except the Knicks with the proper purpose.

If Melo decides to leave you will too.

[Real14]

He needs to tank and clear cap space in 2015, then make a run at the big FA's and pair them with a top 10 pick. In 2015 you've got guys like Rondo, Marc Gasol, Asik, Dragic, Love and Aldridge as UFA's, though I'm sure some of them will sign on before hitting FA.

Trying to win in 2015 will only serve to set the franchise back, the roster is god awful and Melo is good as gone.
shut up already, your team aint got no roster full of talent, so watch what you say hater:coleman: :no:

[Rameek]

I feel some kind of a way about this. You are not a Knick fan you are not invested into the franchise because you are a Melo fan.



The Knicks fan base on ISH is always content w the idea that waiting for a superstar to knock on the door and come over for free using Capspace is the only way to go. And if you tell them to wait a year for that shot in the dark they'll happily do that. If you tell them to wait two years that's fine too.

[Rameek]

Trying to win in 2015 will only serve to set the franchise back, the roster is god awful IF Melo is gone.
I corrected your statement....

[el gringos]

What you call a loser mentality is called intelligent reconstruction. You want to retool on the fly without thinking long-term. Every organization goes through the cycle except the Knicks with the proper purpose.

If Melo decides to leave you will too.

How is taking a bigger gamble for an unknown payout considered intelligent reconstruction? Esp w picks only every other year?


You don't think a big free agent will want to get max money? You don't think that team will demand picks?


So the fans are willing to sit at a blackjack table, but you want to play w Phil still. Well what happens if Phil doesn't play blackjack because he plays Poker?

[hawksdogsbraves]

How many teams in the east do you put above this?


Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
Carmelo/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza

Miami, (assuming the big 3 return)
Indy
Toronto
Chicago
Washington
Brooklyn
Charlotte
Atlanta
Cleveland

All the teams that finished ahead of the Knicks last year in the East, who all should improve.

Next you're gonna say, 'Well I can see Miami, Indy, and Chicago, but not the rest'.

Washington - Eons better, young backcourt going to take a step forward.
Toronto - Eons better, young talent, (Derozan + Valanciunas) going to take a step forward.
Brooklyn - Gets Brook Lopez back
Atlanta - Gets Horford back + a FA
Charlotte - Big FA addition to an already superior team
Cleveland - More talented young team gets big coaching upgrade + Wiggins

All that coupled with a new coach and scheme means no, that Knicks team has no shot at the playoffs.

Not that it's relevant anyway, Melo is good as gone.

[el gringos]

Miami, (assuming the big 3 return)
Indy
Toronto
Chicago
Washington
Brooklyn
Charlotte
Atlanta
Cleveland

All the teams that finished ahead of the Knicks last year in the East, who all should improve.

Next you're gonna say, 'Well I can see Miami, Indy, and Chicago, but not the rest'.

Washington - Eons better, young backcourt going to take a step forward.
Toronto - Eons better, young talent, (Derozan + Valanciunas) going to take a step forward.
Brooklyn - Gets Brook Lopez back
Atlanta - Gets Horford back + a FA
Charlotte - Big FA addition to an already superior team
Cleveland - More talented young team gets big coaching upgrade + Wiggins

All that coupled with a new coach and scheme means no, that Knicks team has no shot at the playoffs.

Not that it's relevant anyway, Melo is good as gone.

Oh lord that's a bit much. You are giving teams big free agent signings (Charlotte) not counting teams losing anybody (raptors Lowry) and most importantly not taking into account the effect Woodson and felton being gone will have. Then add in how much the Knicks improve in my scenario.

You don't even remember teams tanking games for tour team to even make it in.


Miami as long as Lebrun comes back would have to be looked at as favorites until they're beat but other than that it takes a lot of wishful thinking for half of what you wrote to be even close.

[el gringos]

What would be better for the Knicks to get


The bucks package

Or

Josh smith and jerebko

[Dagouch]

Only way the Knicks move forward is if they get rid of bargnani.....

That's coming in 2015 unless the Zen can dump him and Amare Sooner.

[el gringos]

Only way the Knicks move forward is if they get rid of bargnani.....
That is as dumb of a belief as possible. Even the most pessimistic valid opinion is that bargnani is nothing. Nobody could logically think he is someone holding the team back.


Reality is bargnani will do really well in the triangle and playing center. He also fits perfect w Carmelo.


This trade idea is about building a team around Carmelo

[Ramza]

You're joking right? :lol
I stopped reading there :lol

[el gringos]

I stopped reading there :lol
Smook A: I was hoping for a real response because I misinterpreted him. A couple minutes later he said bulls minus boozer plus ariza and pau was a 50 win team.

[el gringos]

No way in hell I would give away Tim Hardaway's potential for a scrub like OJ mayo whose shown he can't even dominate on a 15 win team.
The main pieces are Larry sanders and illyasova. Hardaway runs and shoots- I'd think oj could still shoot and would just be a replacement for Hardaway, thanasis, and eliington not the main piece.


I only assume that to get sanders and illyasova that they'd make you take OJ, the trade doesn't work talent for talent it would only work if Milwaukee wanted to start over and have capspace to build around Parker and Giannes and 1 more top 5 pick.


I think there's a chance, because (and I know the pre draft leaks are not always accurate info) the Bucks were said to have interest in Larkin and Hardaway the year they took giannes. His brother couldn't hurt.

[longtime lurker]

In his short time as President Phil has already done more than Isiah Thomas and Donnie Walsh combined. Do the Knicks have their pick next year? Next move is to clear some contracts and get some picks.

[hawkfan]

AB to Hawks for a bunch of expirers.

[hawkfan]

Miami, (assuming the big 3 return)
Indy
Toronto
Chicago
Washington
Brooklyn
Charlotte
Atlanta
Cleveland

All the teams that finished ahead of the Knicks last year in the East, who all should improve.

Next you're gonna say, 'Well I can see Miami, Indy, and Chicago, but not the rest'.

Washington - Eons better, young backcourt going to take a step forward.
Toronto - Eons better, young talent, (Derozan + Valanciunas) going to take a step forward.
Brooklyn - Gets Brook Lopez back
Atlanta - Gets Horford back + a FA
Charlotte - Big FA addition to an already superior team
Cleveland - More talented young team gets big coaching upgrade + Wiggins

All that coupled with a new coach and scheme means no, that Knicks team has no shot at the playoffs.

Not that it's relevant anyway, Melo is good as gone.

Payne and Patterson will help our defense out big time.

[MellowYellow]

How many teams in the east do you put above this?


Calderon/shumpert
Jr smith/OJ mayo
Carmelo/cleanthony
Sanders/illyasova
Bargnani/Zaza

Don't listen to these clowns man, I agree this team is top 2 material, if Cleanthony works out it would have dynasty possibilities.