Has anyone made three straight championship appearances with as little help as Kobe?

[STATUTORY]

A soft euro that has never even won a single playoff game without Kobe,

Bynum that didn't play in first 2 playoffs and barely the last one

Worst starting pg in the league

Revolving door at the sf position.

What an incredulous feat

How great is our god

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes, because Gasol, Odom, Bynum, and Artest are all scrubs. Godbe carried that team all by himself

[Mr Exlax]

Holy shit you made a thread that wasn't about LeBron?
Oh hell my bad. LeBron did it with less complimentary help. I don't discredit Kobe's skills, but having 2 skilled 7' players in your front court is a ton of help in a league where finding 1 skilled 7 foot player is tough. Then there's Odom who was really good during those years. That's rim protection out the ass. And then Ron Artest wreaking havok on the perimeter. Do you watch basketball or are you just a fan of a player?

[AintNoSunshine]

Yeah, Pau did. He had the same team as Kobe did but he had to carry the uselss chucker too.

Better question: did anyone lose with more help than Kobe in 04 and 12?

[Quickening]

Has any team won a game 7 of the finals when a player has took 24 or more shots and hit 25 percent or under? :lol

dat GOAT cast

[Bandito]

Yes, because Gasol, Odom, Bynum, and Artest are all scrubs. Godbe carried that team all by himself
Who is bynum? I don't remember him on that team. Was he hurt all season, which could be the reason I forgot about him.

[Rooster]

Haters love to say he's a chucker but the funny thing is a lot of his teammates have their best years playing with him. Kobe had enough help but most them became irrelevant after they left the Lakers save for Ariza.

[Quickening]

Haters love to say he's a chucker but the funny thing is a lot of his teammates have their best years playing with him. Kobe had enough help but most them became irrelevant after they left the Lakers save for Ariza.

All them offensive rebounds

[riseagainst]

it's crazy how he only needs 1 HOF player per team to win championships. He can do so much with so little.

:bowdown:

[Rooster]

All them offensive rebounds

5 rings

[jongib369]

Has any team won a game 7 of the finals when a player has took 24 or more shots and hit 25 percent or under? :lol

dat GOAT cast
That's ****ing horrible :lol

[Real14]

Has any team won a game 7 of the finals when a player has took 24 or more shots and hit 25 percent or under? :lol

dat GOAT cast
5 iz better than 2:applause:

[dubeta]

GOAT coach

Most skilled big man (Gasol)

Best young big man (Bynum)

6'11 point forward who can do it all in Odom (score, pass rebound, defend)

The average height of their frontcourt was like 7'0 feet

You know how many matchup problems that causes defensively, and how helpful that it when it comes to rebounding? :facepalm

3 and D defenders Ariza and Artest

Bunch of 3 point shooters (Vujacic etc.)

Winning intangibles who hits big shots (like ray allen) in fisher

Heck Kobe might just have had the most stacked teams of the last decade, heck plug Paul George in instead of Kobe and they still win

[riseagainst]

GOAT coach

Most skilled big man (Gasol)

Best young big man (Bynum)

6'11 point forward who can do it all in Odom (score, pass rebound, defend)

The average height of their frontcourt was like 7'0 feet

You know how many matchup problems that causes defensively, and how helpful that it when it comes to rebounding? :facepalm

3 and D defenders Ariza and Artest

Bunch of 3 point shooters (Vujacic etc.)

Winning intangibles who hits big shots (like ray allen) in fisher

Heck Kobe might just have had the most stacked teams of the last decade, heck plug Paul George in instead of Kobe and they still win

don't go full essay on us.

[livinglegend]

Yes, Pau Gasol.

[dubeta]

don't go full essay on us.

Sorry, my knowledge might hurt your head a bit

[SouBeachTalents]

5 rings

7 rings- Horry da GOAT

[riseagainst]

Sorry, my knowledge might hurt your head a bit

"knowledge"

:roll:

[Ne 1]

Yes, because Gasol, Odom, Bynum, and Artest are all scrubs. Godbe carried that team all by himself
Gasol was a great All-Star #2, Odom was a solid role player and a borderline All-Star in '09, but the next season he struggled all year and was pretty inconsistent, Bynum missed the playoffs in '08 and the Lakers still made it out of the West and he played limited minutes and didn't contribute much in '09 and '10, and Artest was a shell of himself, Ariza was a better fit. His defense was still pretty good but at that point it meant little in a 2-4 series and he was a liability on offense, perhaps the worst starting offensive SF in the league.

[andgar923]

A soft euro that has never even won a single playoff game without Kobe,

Bynum that didn't play in first 2 playoffs and barely the last one

Worst starting pg in the league

Revolving door at the sf position.

What an incredulous feat

How great is our god

the Lakers usually had a stacked front court, and one of the deepest benches if not THE deepest bench. Sure individually the players may not sound like much, but they fit the SYSTEM (Triangle) which is key.

But again, the key to their victories was their front court.

[Ne 1]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league around that time with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 Guard on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is often overrated by Kobe haters trying to diminish him. Their "amazing" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

And that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

[STATUTORY]

"knowledge"

:roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll: kid knows beyonce

[STATUTORY]

GOAT coach

Most skilled big man (Gasol)

Best young big man (Bynum)

6'11 point forward who can do it all in Odom (score, pass rebound, defend)

The average height of their frontcourt was like 7'0 feet

You know how many matchup problems that causes defensively, and how helpful that it when it comes to rebounding? :facepalm

3 and D defenders Ariza and Artest

Bunch of 3 point shooters (Vujacic etc.)

Winning intangibles who hits big shots (like ray allen) in fisher

Heck Kobe might just have had the most stacked teams of the last decade, heck plug Paul George in instead of Kobe and they still win

clown ass post, how many minutes did bynum play in those 3 playoff run combined?

VUJACIC?! ni99a is not even in the league

artest can't even get a job

ariza was a scrub until kobe got his hands on him

Gasol couldn't win a single playoff game without Kobe. he has ZERO impact on games

[LoneyROY7]

Is it me, or has OP been in meltdown mode? Just spamming the same sh*t over and over and over.

[SouBeachTalents]

clown ass post, how many minutes did bynum play in those 3 playoff run combined?

VUJACIC?! ni99a is not even in the league

artest can't even get a job

ariza was a scrub until kobe got his hands on him

Gasol couldn't win a single playoff game without Kobe. he has ZERO impact on games

Dat 20, 11, 4 on 54% in 2010 and grabing half of Kobe's bricks in Game 7 is ZERO impact

[TheMarkMadsen]

the Lakers usually had a stacked front court, and one of the deepest benches if not THE deepest bench. Sure individually the players may not sound like much, but they fit the SYSTEM (Triangle) which is key.

But again, the key to their victories was their front court.

Those lakers were infamous for having no bench

2008 playoffs the only guys getting double digit minutes off the bench were Luke Walton, Sasha, Farmar & Ronny Turiaf

Their bench over those year consisted of Sasha, Farmar, Shannon Brown & Luke Walton.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league around that time with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 Guard on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is often overrated by Kobe haters trying to diminish him. Their "amazing" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

And that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

Truth & knowledge

[riseagainst]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league around that time with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 Guard on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is often overrated by Kobe haters trying to diminish him. Their "amazing" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

And that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.


people are ignoring this like the plague.

:applause:

[jstern]

Kobe always has the best and favorite team in the Finals, but still manages to win shooting 40% in the series, and even winning a game 7 shooting 6/24.

But I love how the stans are now trying to rewrite history, as if back then people weren't saying that the Lakers had the vastly superior team. Going up against the Magics, and going to a game 7 with the 4th or 5th seeded Boston Celtics. Kobe had it so tough.

Two for seven in Finals MVP Kobe has, that right there tells you about the quality of his teams that he has been blessed to be a part of, unlike many other super stars.

[stalkerforlife]

No, not that I know of.

Kobe was amazing.

Top 5 all time.

[stalkerforlife]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league around that time with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 Guard on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is often overrated by Kobe haters trying to diminish him. Their "amazing" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

And that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

Kobe's top 5 all time.

[ralph_i_el]

A soft euro that has never even won a single playoff game without Kobe,

Bynum that didn't play in first 2 playoffs and barely the last one

Worst starting pg in the league

Revolving door at the sf position.

What an incredulous feat

How great is our god

ever watch a game or do you just *********e to youtube videos?



Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG




none of those other frontcourts put up those stats if they play with Kobe:facepalm Don't you think throwing the highest usage player with any of those front courts would decrease the number of shots they'd take?

[JohnMax]

If Kobe was carrying the Lakers. Why did they get beat easily in 2011 and 2012?

Is it because he fell off?

[IllegalD]

If Kobe was carrying the Lakers. Why did they get beat easily in 2011 and 2012?

Is it because he fell off?

If LeBron was carrying the Heat how come he only won 2 out of 4 finals in his prime?

Is it because he's overrated?

[STATUTORY]

If Kobe was carrying the Lakers. Why did they get beat easily in 2011 and 2012?

Is it because he fell off?
:biggums: we actin like kobe wasn't hobbled in 2012?

as far as 2011, 3 extended playoff run plus olympics is tough on anyone. and we really actin like they didn't lose to the eventual champions anyways? Mavs was just a team of destiny that year. If Lebron's team was in the west and played Mavs in round 1 they would have lost then too, so what's the difference?

[TimmyDuncan]

Shaq

[ArbitraryWater]

The latest great to lead title teams, LeBron, did it with far less in 2012 and 2013..

[IllegalD]

The latest great to lead title teams, LeBron, did it with far less in 2012 and 2013..

:no:

3 HOF teammates (Wade, Bosh, Allen).

Kobe = 2 HOF teammates TOTAL in his 5 rings (Shaq, Gasol)

[STATUTORY]

The latest great to lead title teams, LeBron, did it with far less in 2012 and 2013..
:roll: :roll: :roll: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

3 legti top 50 player of all time in wade and bosh and ray allen

no you are looking for another thread

the "has anyone ever done LESS with more help than Lebron James" Thread

[ralph_i_el]

:no:

3 HOF teammates (Wade, Bosh, Allen).

Kobe = 2 HOF teammates TOTAL in his 5 rings (Shaq, Gasol)

gary payton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson coaching...old mitch richmond even. This "HoFer's" argument is pretty stupid without context isn't it?

I mean if we're counting Ray Allen and a way downhill Wade



Bron won titles as the best player in the league. Kobe won titles WITH the best player in the league. There's a difference.

[IllegalD]

gary payton, Karl Malone, Phil Jackson coaching...

I mean if we're counting Ray Allen and a way downhill Wade



Bron won titles as the best player in the league. Kobe won titles WITH the best player in the league. There's a difference.

I'm talking about the years they actually won... :confusedshrug:

Cool. So then we can count Shaq in Cleveland for Bron too. I guess that squashes the "LeBron could win if he had Shaq" arguments... :facepalm

[SwayDizzle]

Kobe pulled off a Hakeemesque 08-10

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league around that time with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 Guard on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade).

The Lakers front-court is often overrated by Kobe haters trying to diminish him. Their "amazing" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in the stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

And that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season:34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.


Haters see this and run

[SouBeachTalents]

:no:

3 HOF teammates (Wade, Bosh, Allen).

Kobe = 2 HOF teammates TOTAL in his 5 rings (Shaq, Gasol)

Besides 2011 Wade, Gasol was just as good if not better than any of LeBron's teammates, and 00-02 Shaq >>>>> all of LeBron's teammates

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe pulled off a Hakeemesque 08-10

:facepalm Hakeem's '94 teammates are arguably the worst ever led to a title

[STATUTORY]

Besides 2011 Wade, Gasol was just as good if not better than any of LeBron's teammates, and 00-02 Shaq >>>>> all of LeBron's teammates

Chris Bosh is a better player than gasol has ever been

you bran nerds love stats? look them up

[SamuraiSWISH]

'91 - '93 Jordan had just 1x All Star. 3 for 3 in the Finals.
2008 - 2010 Kobe had just 1x All Star. 2 for 3 in the Finals.
2011 - 2014 LeBron had 2x All Stars. 2 for 4 in the Finals.

[Ne 1]

Bron won titles as the best player in the league. Kobe won titles WITH the best player in the league. There's a difference.
Sure, the consensus back then was that Shaq was the best player in the league, but if you're going to try to use that to discredit Kobe you have to consider the consensus was that Kobe was the next best player in the league starting around the '01 playoffs. His production and level of play was on par with or better than some rings won as the "best player" which is why you can't just judge rings as the "best player" and "#2" without context.

[SouBeachTalents]

'91 - '93 Jordan had just 1x All Star. 3 for 3 in the Finals.
2008 - 2010 Kobe had just 1x All Star. 2 for 3 in the Finals.
2011 - 2014 LeBron had 2x All Stars. 2 for 4 in the Finals.

Using all star selections is a rather poor criteria imo, Kobe made the all star game last year playing in SIX games

[SouBeachTalents]

Chris Bosh is a better player than gasol has ever been

you bran nerds love stats? look them up

The stats are basically dead even in the regular season, while Gasol is better in every category in the postseason

[Ne 1]

Kobe pulled off a Hakeemesque 08-10


2008-2010 Kobe we're looking at a three year stretch where he got 30/6/6/2 on 47 FG%, 51 eFG%, 57 TS% including some epic series. 2 rings, 3 Finals. Not many have done it better...

His conference finals series:

29/6/4 53% vs. Spurs (who just a year before embarassed Lebron and were top 3 defense)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. Nuggets (shut down Chris Paul that year and top 10 defense)
34/7/8 on 52% vs. Suns (who after the all-star break were top 5 defense)

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team
1x Olympic Gold Medal


That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was the better player, scored more points etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed LeBron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

As far as 3 year runs, the only players I can think of off the top of my head with 3 year runs that I'd say were better were Jordan('91-'93), Shaq('00-'02), Bird('84-'86) and Olajuwon('93-'95).

[ArbitraryWater]

'91 - '93 Jordan had just 1x All Star. 3 for 3 in the Finals.
2008 - 2010 Kobe had just 1x All Star. 2 for 3 in the Finals.
2011 - 2014 LeBron had 2x All Stars. 2 for 4 in the Finals.

Answer me this:

Would Bosh have been an All-Star had he played in the West? (No)

Hey what about the 2000's West... Bosh an All-Star with Duncan/Dirk/Garnett, or in the early 2000's adding Rasheed? Late 2000's adding Stoudemire?

NOPE, NOPE, NOPE... Wouldn't even make it over Elton Brand, Zach Randolph..

Basically at any point of his career or even going back a bit more in the 2000's, he would never have been an All-Star in the West, with legit competition... never.

[IllegalD]

The stats are basically dead even in the regular season, while Gasol is better in every category in the postseason

The difference...?

Gasol was Kobe's 2nd option. While Bosh was LeBron's THIRD option. :lol

[STATUTORY]

The stats are basically dead even in the regular season, while Gasol is better in every category in the postseason
:facepalm :facepalm you are conflating kobe's postseason performance with pau's post season performances

Pau in the postseaseon without KOBE? 0-20

[ArbitraryWater]

2008-2010 Kobe we're looking at a three year stretch where he got 30/6/6/2 on 47 FG%, 51 eFG%, 57 TS% including some epic series. 2 rings, 3 Finals. Not many have done it better...

His conference finals series:

29/6/4 53% vs. Spurs (who just a year before embarassed Lebron and were top 3 defense)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. Nuggets (shut down Chris Paul that year and top 10 defense)
34/7/8 on 52% vs. Suns (who after the all-star break were top 5 defense)

Playoff Stats Year-by-Year

2008
30.1 ppg 5.7 rpg 5.6 apg 48fg% 30%3P 81%FT 58TS% 51eFG%

2009
30.2 ppg 5.3 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 35%3P 88%FT 56TS% 49eFG%

2010
29.2 ppg 6.0 rpg 5.5 apg 46fg% 37%3P 84%FT 57TS% 51eFG%

2x NBA Champion
2x NBA Finals MVP
1x NBA MVP
1x All Star Game MVP
3x All NBA First Team
3x All-Defensive First Team
1x Olympic Gold Medal


That efficiency is identical to first three-peat playoff Jordan. Crazy. Seriously, compare their FG% on twos, their eFG% and TS%, they are basically the same (though MJ was the better player, scored more points etc).

His best series in this span....

34/5/6 on 50% vs. '08 Nuggets
29/6/4 on 53% vs. '08 Spurs (#3 ranked defense and a year before embarrassed LeBron)
34/6/6 on 48% vs. '09 Nuggets
33/7/7 on 49% vs. '08 Jazz
34/7/8 on 52% vs. '10 Suns
32/6/7 + great defense vs. '09 Magic

As far as 3 year runs, the only players I can think of off the top of my head with 3 year runs that I'd say were better were Jordan('91-'93), Shaq('00-'02), Bird('84-'86) and Olajuwon('93-'95).

Only with Kobe / Kobe fans you only get half the picture...

2008 Spurs (They were a top 3 defense the previous year)
2010 Suns (They were a top 5 defense after the all star break)





:oldlol:

Like what the **** is that shit?

I never heard of any of those arguments before for any other player, and once Kobe comes up you hit on all this selective garbage :wtf:






EDIT: No, the efficiency is not identical to first 3-peat Jordan, but second 3-peat Jordan.

Unless you're actually looking at TS% (a made up stat when we have FG%? lmfao) over fg%

[Hey Yo]

Chris Bosh is a better player than gasol has ever been

you bran nerds love stats? look them up
Game 7 of the 2013 finals, Bosh, Mike Miller and Ray Allen went scoreless.

Does Kobe and the Lakers win a game 7 in 2010 if Pau, Odom and Artest go scoreless?

[STATUTORY]

Game 7 of the 2013 finals, Bosh, Mike Miller and Ray Allen went scoreless.

Does Kobe and the Lakers win a game 7 in 2010 if Pau, Odom and Artest go scoreless?

it's not Bosh's fault he didn't have Kobe to elevate his play

Players get better when they play with Kobe, players get worse when they play with Lebron

another fact

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm :facepalm you are conflating kobe's postseason performance with pau's post season performances

Pau in the postseaseon without KOBE? 0-20

*0-16

[Hey Yo]

it's not Bosh's fault he didn't have Kobe to elevate his play

Players get better when they play with Kobe, players get worse when they play with Lebron

another fact
weak sauce, mayne.

[SouBeachTalents]

The difference...?

Gasol was Kobe's 2nd option. While Bosh was LeBron's THIRD option. :lol

While that is true, Gasol on the Lakers has only averaged one more shot attempt than Bosh on the Heat in the postseason

[SouBeachTalents]

:facepalm :facepalm you are conflating kobe's postseason performance with pau's post season performances

Pau in the postseaseon without KOBE? 0-20

And what was Bosh without LeBron? 3-8 in the pathetic East