anyone can be MVP if the media thinks they are

[kennethgriffin]

nobody can win mvp

its not an accomplishment

its a nomination

win

[fpliii]

When Wilt didn't win MVP, it was voted on by players. It's been voted on by the media since 81.

[kennethgriffin]

When Wilt didn't win MVP, it was voted on by players. It's been voted on by the media since 81.

true. but its still not a competition of basketball

it was still opinion

players went more of reputation around the league. media goes more off reputation around their inner circle

same as oscar nominations. its a preferred members only insiders deal. all politics.


i'm sure if leonardo dicaprio was jewish. he'd have 5 oscars by now

[fpliii]

true. but its still not a competition of basketball

it was still opinion

players went more of reputation around the league. media goes more off reputation around their inner circle

same as oscar nominations. its a preferred members only insiders deal. all politics.
I mean, I don't care about awards at all TBH.

All that matters to me is level of play, and how long you play at a high level. Level of play not referring to stats, but how much you contribute to winning titles.

[kennethgriffin]

i've said this before. rarely is the mvp the best player in the nba or the player who had the best season

2001 mvp - iverson, best player - shaq, best season - kobe

2002 mvp - duncan, best player - shaq, best season - kidd

2003 mvp - duncan, best player - kobe, best season - mcgrady

2004 mvp - garnett, best player - duncan, best season - garnett

2005 mvp - nash, best player - shaq, best season - iverson

2006 mvp - nash, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2007 mvp - dirk, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2008 mvp - kobe, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2009 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - wade

2010 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2011 mvp - rose, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2012 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2013 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2014 mvp - durant, best player - lebron, best season - durant

[SouBeachTalents]

i've said this before. rarely is the mvp the best player in the nba or the player who had the best season

2001 mvp - iverson, best player - shaq, best season - kobe

2002 mvp - duncan, best player - shaq, best season - kidd

2003 mvp - duncan, best player - kobe, best season - mcgrady

2004 mvp - garnett, best player - duncan, best season - garnett

2005 mvp - nash, best player - shaq, best season - iverson

2006 mvp - nash, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2007 mvp - dirk, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2008 mvp - kobe, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2009 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - wade

2010 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2011 mvp - rose, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2012 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2013 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2014 mvp - durant, best player - lebron, best season - durant

Please explain to me how you can be the best player in a given year, yet not have the best season? Even if that meant championships that clearly wouldn't apply to most of your examples

[RoundMoundOfReb]

i've said this before. rarely is the mvp the best player in the nba or the player who had the best season

2001 mvp - iverson, best player - shaq, best season - kobe

2002 mvp - duncan, best player - shaq, best season - kidd

2003 mvp - duncan, best player - kobe, best season - mcgrady

2004 mvp - garnett, best player - duncan, best season - garnett

2005 mvp - nash, best player - shaq, best season - iverson

2006 mvp - nash, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2007 mvp - dirk, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2008 mvp - kobe, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2009 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - wade

2010 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2011 mvp - rose, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2012 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2013 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2014 mvp - durant, best player - lebron, best season - durant
:biggums:

[stalkerforlife]

Regular season MVP is a great individual accomplishment, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better player than those that didn't win.

Kobe's much better than Nash. Better than Bron. Better than Malone. Etc.

[kennethgriffin]

Please explain to me how you can be the best player in a given year, yet not have the best season? Even if that meant championships that clearly wouldn't apply to most of your examples

because of either

a) injuries

b) situation

c) team mates

d) competition

e) shots

f) minutes

g) role




seriously? are you really that much of a sheep? do you honestly think a guy is automatically a better player if they average 1 more point or assist?

theres soooooooooooo many factors


malone had the better season in 98. was he the best player on the planet though?

no... jordan won mvp averaging only 3 assists... he was pacing himself that year.

[kennethgriffin]

Regular season MVP is a great individual accomplishment, but it doesn't necessarily make you a better player than those that didn't win.

Kobe's much better than Nash. Better than Bron. Better than Malone. Etc.

how does one ACCOMPLISH the mvp

:lol

another word that i don't see any connection with opinion


if i went up to 20 friends and asked them if i'm the best player they know of in my group of friends.. did i accomplish anything?

[stalkerforlife]

how does one ACCOMPLISH the mvp

:lol

another word that i don't see any connection with opinion


if i went up to 20 friends and asked them if i'm the best player they know of in my group of friends.. did i accomplish anything?

I see your point.

[kennethgriffin]

did i accomplish anything if one day i wake up and i THINK i'm god

all MVP can be defined as is "THOUGHT" because its collective opinion

[KG215]

I'd like to hear how Westbrook was obviously the driving force for OKC this year? Westbrook didn't play in 36 games and Durant still led OKC to 59 wins in a brutally tough Western Conference. I love Russ, and think the majority of the tired criticisms used to take away from his impact and ability as a player are stupid, but if you're using the playoffs as proof for your argument, it's kind of silly, no?

Durant played the most minutes of any player during the regular season while Westbrook missed 36 games. For comparison's sake, Westbrook played 1,412 minutes in the regular season compared to Durant playing 3,122 minutes. I think some of what we saw in the playoffs, the appearance of Westbrook being the driving force for OKC this year, was directly due to him being fresher for the playoffs while the weight of having to do so much in the regular season really started wearing on Durant in the playoff grind.

[el gringos]

Pick next years MVP


Calderon/shumpert/murry
Jr/OJ/jimmer
CARMELO/cleanthony/eliasharris
Sanders/illyasova/aDaye
Bargnani/Zaza/fesenko


I'll give you a hint. His name is all caps

[kennethgriffin]

Pick next years MVP


Calderon/shumpert/murry
Jr/OJ/jimmer
CARMELO/cleanthony/eliasharris
Sanders/illyasova/aDaye
Bargnani/Zaza/fesenko


I'll give you a hint. His name is all caps


next year

MVP - George , Best player - Lebron , Best season - Melo


i just see indiana improving. sanantonio slipping a bit. indiana #1 overall record and george's numbers get up to 25ppg+

media will like the fresh story.

melo will average the highest ppg hes ever gotten. possibly 32 a game

lebron will be the best player but sacrifice allot of stats when they add a 4th allstar

[Kblaze8855]

It wouldnt matter who voted. The same people would win most years. Durant this year. Lebron the last 2. Rose likely but not 100%. Lebron for sure 9 and 10.

Besides you come in here touting TNT votes of 10-12 media members on player of the decade as if even 30 people on earth remember it happened or think it matters. Then talk about the MVP as a so what award....

I really need to stop being patient with some of you and assuming you might one day get serious and behave like normal people.......

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm

Since 2000 they got it wrong thrice.. 2001, 2006 and 2011.

All in all those players did have cases though, it was close, so it was understandable... kobe tards doing damage protection :lol

hard to be top 7 or whatever with 1 mvp :roll:

lol at the wilt argument... totally forgets to mention team record all of the sudden... and btw, back then PLAYERS VOTED YOU DUMBASS... isnt this what you would like?


But MJ with 33/8/8 + Elite Defense.... NOW TEAM RECORD COUNTS FOR BIRD AND MAGIC!!!


Sorry, NEXT EDIT... "all a player has control over is winning titles"


LMFAOOOOOO

[ArbitraryWater]

i've said this before. rarely is the mvp the best player in the nba or the player who had the best season

2001 mvp - iverson, best player - shaq, best season - kobe

2002 mvp - duncan, best player - shaq, best season - kidd

2003 mvp - duncan, best player - kobe, best season - mcgrady

2004 mvp - garnett, best player - duncan, best season - garnett

2005 mvp - nash, best player - shaq, best season - iverson

2006 mvp - nash, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2007 mvp - dirk, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2008 mvp - kobe, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2009 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - wade

2010 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2011 mvp - rose, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2012 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2013 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2014 mvp - durant, best player - lebron, best season - durant

You can't be this retarded, you CAN'T BE

[dc_chilling]

i've said this before. rarely is the mvp the best player in the nba or the player who had the best season

2001 mvp - iverson, best player - shaq, best season - kobe

2002 mvp - duncan, best player - shaq, best season - kidd

2003 mvp - duncan, best player - kobe, best season - mcgrady

2004 mvp - garnett, best player - duncan, best season - garnett

2005 mvp - nash, best player - shaq, best season - iverson

2006 mvp - nash, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2007 mvp - dirk, best player - kobe, best season - kobe

2008 mvp - kobe, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2009 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - wade

2010 mvp - lebron, best player - kobe, best season - lebron

2011 mvp - rose, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2012 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2013 mvp - lebron, best player - lebron, best season - durant

2014 mvp - durant, best player - lebron, best season - durant

Dumbest post of all time. :applause:

Kobe was the best in 09 and 10?:facepalm

Durant has had the best season every year since 2011? :banghead:

[kennethgriffin]

It wouldnt matter who voted. The same people would win most years. Durant this year. Lebron the last 2. Rose likely but not 100%. Lebron for sure 9 and 10.

Besides you come in here touting TNT votes of 10-12 media members on player of the decade as if even 30 people on earth remember it happened or think it matters. Then talk about the MVP as a so what award....

I really need to stop being patient with some of you and assuming you might one day get serious and behave like normal people.......


my argument isnt for mvps to be voted by other people. i'm saying voting in general by anyone isnt 100% accurate nore something anyone can "win" since it isnt something anyone can compete for

its not a competition nore event. its opinion


like i said.. kobe was voted an allstar this year

opinion doesnt mean anything. if someone is liked well enough theyel have an advantage.

most writers are fans themselves and write with clear bias most of the time. theres always hidden agendas

every single person on this forum has a clear bias 1 way or another for atleast something. nobody is neutral for everything



in no way is the mvp something anyone can set out to "win" and in no way is it an accomplishment by definition

attatching a trophy to something doesnt legitimize it. how is it any different that espn rankings. same people vote. only difference is "KIA" is attached to it and they supply hardware


nobody on this forum will ever agree every single mvp was the right choice. everyone agrees its flawed. but people disagree on individual seasons in which there were a wrong choice. thats the only debate. which ones are wrong and which ones are right


all we can agree on is its not real sometimes. which takes away the legitimacy of the award overall


i compare it to de-legitimizing the bible

prove enough things are flawed or incorrect. and it loses all credibility

[kennethgriffin]

Dumbest post of all time. :applause:

Kobe was the best in 09 and 10?:facepalm

Durant has had the best season every year since 2011? :banghead:


in my opinion he was

in your opinion he wasnt

and?

a case can be made for or against him depending on favoring agendas


this type of argument is the same way we hand out awards. how do we know for sure who was the best if you value an mvp over a title/finals mvp

[T_L_P]

2002 best season - kidd

:biggums:

Duncan: 58 wins
Kidd: 52 wins

Duncan: 26/13/4/1/3
Kidd: 15/7/9/2/0

Duncan: 27.0 PER, .576 TS%, 17.8 WS, .257 WS/48
Kidd: 19.1 PER, .484 TS%, 8.9 WS, .140 WS/48

The merits of this thread are pretty good. I kinda agree with your points. But Kidd having the best season?

[Threethrows]

Subjective judging doesn't mean something isn't won. That's always been a type of competition.

[dc_chilling]

in my opinion he was

in your opinion he wasnt

and?

a case can be made for or against him depending on favoring agendas


this type of argument is the same way we hand out awards. how do we know for sure who was the best if you value an mvp over a title/finals mvp


I would love to hear the case for him.

It can't revolve around statistics or the eye test.

The Durant thing was worse though...

[dubeta]

4/11 > 1/18

[kennethgriffin]

I would love to hear the case for him.

It can't revolve around statistics or the eye test.

The Durant thing was worse though...


my case is

kobe bryant on a team where he can do what he wants averages 35 ppg and drops 81, 62 in three quarters, drops 50+ 4 straight games.

that same guy with the same skills dialed back his game to share with pau and go to 3 straight finals. winning 2 of them and battling through a highly competitive western confrence ( beating 7 teams with 50+ wins during that those 2 championship runs. more than lebrons beatin in his entire life )

doing it originally with a team consisting of jordan farmar, sasha vujacic and luke walton as his 3rd, 4th, 5th best team mates

bynum not even playing

gasol being possibly a top 5 all time lowest ranked sidekick in nba history

its not always about stats. cause stats lie. we all know 28/6/5 wasnt the highest output kobe was capable of

different roles and offensive systems require people to do different things.

what makes a player great is showing mental toughness and a will to win.. dominating and doing it with less help than most finals mvps have had throughout history

then yes. if you looked at kobes game in 2009 and 2010. he had the best footwork. he was the most clutch. he hit all the game winners those seasons. he had the perfect jumper. he had the post game. he had the defensive skills still. and he was still athletic. those years he was the best all around player.

lebron james was still raw. scored 70% of his points off layups. still didnt have the post game or footwork. he was begged to shoot beyond 18 feet. he was not a better player. just more efficient and had more turns with the ball in his team built on defense/rebounding with an offensive system that played into lebrons statistical hands

the lakers in the east win 72+ games.

the cavs in the west dont win 66 games.

that right there could mean the difference in a close mvp race

simple as that.


stats lie. no person with intelligence will tell you lebron was better than kobe. but he did have a better individual statistical season.

[kennethgriffin]

4/11 > 1/18

where does steve nash rank all time

[dc_chilling]

my argument isnt for mvps to be voted by other people. i'm saying voting in general by anyone isnt 100% accurate nore something anyone can "win" since it isnt something anyone can compete for

its not a competition nore event. its opinion


like i said.. kobe was voted an allstar this year

opinion doesnt mean anything. if someone is liked well enough theyel have an advantage.

most writers are fans themselves and write with clear bias most of the time. theres always hidden agendas

every single person on this forum has a clear bias 1 way or another for atleast something. nobody is neutral for everything



in no way is the mvp something anyone can set out to "win" and in no way is it an accomplishment by definition

attatching a trophy to something doesnt legitimize it. how is it any different that espn rankings. same people vote. only difference is "KIA" is attached to it and they supply hardware


nobody on this forum will ever agree every single mvp was the right choice. everyone agrees its flawed. but people disagree on individual seasons in which there were a wrong choice. thats the only debate. which ones are wrong and which ones are right


all we can agree on is its not real sometimes. which takes away the legitimacy of the award overall


i compare it to de-legitimizing the bible

prove enough things are flawed or incorrect. and it loses all credibility

The MVP is flawed only in its definition. Nobody knows whether it is an award for the best player in the league, the best player on the best team in the league, or the best individual season.

Many times, these overlap making the choice obvious. MJ was the best player in the league on the best team in the league. As was Lebron in the regular season of 09 and 10.

Usually, if the best player in the league is on one of the best teams in the league he wins as well.

Every once in a while, the best player in the league is on a team that performs at a mediocre level. This happened from 05-07 with Kobe, and kept him from winning the award. How can you be the MVP when your team is barely above .500?

If the award was called the BPA (Best Player Award), you may have a point. However, value is more than just how great an individual player performs. If your team isn't performing at nearly the level you are, you can't be the MVP of the league.

Sometimes they award the wrong player, but for the most part, it is a decent system. They gather an enormous group of people that have been around the game for decades and vote. I can tell you one thing, it's a lot more accurate than the average fan voting.

[kennethgriffin]

Subjective judging doesn't mean something isn't won. That's always been a type of competition.

no it isnt.

how are you competing if you have absolutely nothing to do with the process or outcome

at most its a competition between sports writers to see who has the most people that argree with them on something.


in terms of direct player involvement or the game of basketaball itself there is no competitive competition directly relating to them and an mvp trophy. its totally 3rd party with baseless criteria and is 100% majority opinion based on no specific area other than favor

[kennethgriffin]

The MVP is flawed only in its definition. Nobody knows whether it is an award for the best player in the league, the best player on the best team in the league, or the best individual season.

Many times, these overlap making the choice obvious. MJ was the best player in the league on the best team in the league. As was Lebron in the regular season of 09 and 10.

Usually, if the best player in the league is on one of the best teams in the league he wins as well.

Every once in a while, the best player in the league is on a team that performs at a mediocre level. This happened from 05-07 with Kobe, and kept him from winning the award. How can you be the MVP when your team is barely above .500?

If the award was called the BPA (Best Player Award), you may have a point. However, value is more than just how great an individual player performs. If your team isn't performing at nearly the level you are, you can't be the MVP of the league.

Sometimes they award the wrong player, but for the most part, it is a decent system. They gather an enormous group of people that have been around the game for decades and vote. I can tell you one thing, it's a lot more accurate than the average fan voting.


if you wanted a totally accurate name for the trophy

call it "that guy we mostly agree is possibly either the mvp, best player, or whomever had the best season depending on how we all feel that day about said individual" award

[dc_chilling]

my case is

kobe bryant on a team where he can do what he wants averages 35 ppg and drops 81, 62 in three quarters, drops 50+ 4 straight games.

that same guy with the same skills dialed back his game to share with pau and go to 3 straight finals. winning 2 of them and battling through a highly competitive western confrence ( beating 7 teams with 50+ wins during that those 2 championship runs. more than lebrons beatin in his entire life )

doing it originally with a team consisting of jordan farmar, sasha vujacic and luke walton as his 3rd, 4th, 5th best team mates

bynum not even playing

gasol being possibly a top 5 all time lowest ranked sidekick in nba history

its not always about stats. cause stats lie. we all know 28/6/5 wasnt the highest output kobe was capable of

different roles and offensive systems require people to do different things.

what makes a player great is showing mental toughness and a will to win.. dominating and doing it with less help than most finals mvps have had throughout history

then yes. if you looked at kobes game in 2009 and 2010. he had the best footwork. he was the most clutch. he hit all the game winners those seasons. he had the perfect jumper. he had the post game. he had the defensive skills still. and he was still athletic. those years he was the best all around player.

lebron james was still raw. scored 70% of his points off layups. still didnt have the post game or footwork. he was begged to shoot beyond 18 feet. he was not a better player. just more efficient and had more turns with the ball in his team built on defense/rebounding with an offensive system that played into lebrons statistical hands

the lakers in the east win 72+ games.

the cavs in the west dont win 66 games.

that right there could mean the difference in a close mvp race

simple as that.


stats lie. no person with intelligence will tell you lebron was better than kobe. but he did have a better individual statistical season.

This entire post is conjecture.

The MVP is a regular season award.

The fact of the matter is this:

In 08-09, the Cavs won 66 games and finished with the best record in the league. They had a home record of 39-2, although this is kind of misleading because Lebron sat the final home game and they lost. With him on the court they won all but one home game, which tied the best home record of all time.

He managed to do all this with Ben Wallace starting at PF/C and contributing 2ppg and 6rpg.

Even if you went by postseason in 2009, Lebron had arguably the greatest postseason run ever from an individual standpoint. His PER for the entire run was over 37. Even in his loss he put up 38.5/8.3/8/1.2/1.2.

In 09-10, the Cavs won 61 games. Again the best record in the league. Lebron swept Kobe in their match up as well.

This is all despite having a subpar supporting cast.

So if you can't go by team record, you have to go by on the court performance (stats).

Here are the stats:

Lebron (08-09): 28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg on 49%fg

Kobe (08-09): 26.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg on 46%fg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lebron (09-10): 29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.0 bpg on 50%fg

Kobe (09-10): 27.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.3 bpg on 45%fg


So, Kobe didn't have better team success or individual stats. He also didn't hold up to the eye test if anyone was being objective and honest.

So no, Kobe didn't deserve the MVP and no, Kobe wasn't the best player in 09 or 10.

[K Xerxes]

Rose was voted mvp and his team went 1st place without him the next year

Just to correct this point, in 2011-2012, Bulls went 32-7 (67 win pace) with Rose and 18/27 (54 win pace) without him. They went 45-37 in 2013, so clearly this is bullshit and a healthy Rose was critical to that team.

Anyway, you always bring up Steve Nash or whoever in this argument as though people use MVP as the SOLE measuring stick in player rankings. As with all other things, it is best used in combination with other criteria. Obviously Steve Nash lacks in other criteria used, but to suggest that LeBron winning four MVPs or Jordan winning five doesn't matter is simply absurd.

The list of 3+ MVP winners, which shows incredible consistency:

Kareem - 6
Jordan - 5
Russell - 5
Wilt - 4
LeBron - 4
Bird - 3
Magic - 3

I mean, that is a fairly accurate representation of the rough top 7 players of all time, save maybe LeBron who still hasn't 30. So it can't be THAT awful.

[T_L_P]

This entire post is conjecture.

The MVP is a regular season award.

The fact of the matter is this:

In 08-09, the Cavs won 66 games and finished with the best record in the league. They had a home record of 39-2, although this is kind of misleading because Lebron sat the final home game and they lost. With him on the court they won all but one home game, which tied the best home record of all time.

He managed to do all this with Ben Wallace starting at PF/C and contributing 2ppg and 6rpg.

Even if you went by postseason in 2009, Lebron had arguably the greatest postseason run ever from an individual standpoint. His PER for the entire run was over 37. Even in his loss he put up 38.5/8.3/8/1.2/1.2.

In 09-10, the Cavs won 61 games. Again the best record in the league. Lebron swept Kobe in their match up as well.

This is all despite having a subpar supporting cast.

So if you can't go by team record, you have to go by on the court performance (stats).

Here are the stats:

Lebron (08-09): 28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg on 49%fg

Kobe (08-09): 26.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg on 46%fg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lebron (09-10): 29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.0 bpg on 50%fg

Kobe (09-10): 27.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.3 bpg on 45%fg


So, Kobe didn't have better team success or individual stats. He also didn't hold up to the eye test if anyone was being objective and honest.

So no, Kobe didn't deserve the MVP and no, Kobe wasn't the best player in 09 or 10.

:applause:

[TheGreatDeraj]

Just to correct this point, in 2011-2012, Bulls went 32-7 (67 win pace) with Rose and 18/27 (54 win pace) without him. They went 45-37 in 2013, so clearly this is bullshit and a healthy Rose was critical to that team.

Anyway, you always bring up Steve Nash or whoever in this argument as though people use MVP as the SOLE measuring stick in player rankings. As with all other things, it is best used in combination with other criteria. Obviously Steve Nash lacks in other criteria used, but to suggest that LeBron winning four MVPs or Jordan winning five doesn't matter is simply absurd.

The list of 3+ MVP winners, which shows incredible consistency:

Kareem - 6
Jordan - 5
Russell - 5
Wilt - 4
LeBron - 4
Bird - 3
Magic - 3

I mean, that is a fairly accurate representation of the rough top 7 players of all time, save maybe LeBron who still hasn't 30. So it can't be THAT awful.

Kareem, Russell and Wilt all won the MVP before it was changed to a media vote. And how about Shaq? Kobe?

Jordan and Lebron are great and would be just as great without the media voted MVP awards. Maybe they even win more MVPS if it was a best player in the NBA vote by coaches and players.

@op not everyone can win a MVP just cause the media says so, they have to be on a top player on a top team

[kennethgriffin]

This entire post is conjecture.

The MVP is a regular season award.

The fact of the matter is this:

In 08-09, the Cavs won 66 games and finished with the best record in the league. They had a home record of 39-2, although this is kind of misleading because Lebron sat the final home game and they lost. With him on the court they won all but one home game, which tied the best home record of all time.

He managed to do all this with Ben Wallace starting at PF/C and contributing 2ppg and 6rpg.

Even if you went by postseason in 2009, Lebron had arguably the greatest postseason run ever from an individual standpoint. His PER for the entire run was over 37. Even in his loss he put up 38.5/8.3/8/1.2/1.2.

In 09-10, the Cavs won 61 games. Again the best record in the league. Lebron swept Kobe in their match up as well.

This is all despite having a subpar supporting cast.

So if you can't go by team record, you have to go by on the court performance (stats).

Here are the stats:

Lebron (08-09): 28.4 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.7 spg, 1.1 bpg on 49%fg

Kobe (08-09): 26.8 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 4.9 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.5 bpg on 46%fg
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lebron (09-10): 29.7 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 8.6 apg, 1.6 spg, 1.0 bpg on 50%fg

Kobe (09-10): 27.0 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.5 spg, 0.3 bpg on 45%fg


So, Kobe didn't have better team success or individual stats. He also didn't hold up to the eye test if anyone was being objective and honest.

So no, Kobe didn't deserve the MVP and no, Kobe wasn't the best player in 09 or 10.


who said anything about my case being for regular season mvp or best stats

i was replying to a disagreeance over my picks for best player overall in 09 and 10. not statistical player of the year or who should be mvp

a guy can be mvp and not even be a top 5 player = rose 2011/ nash 2005 and 2006

a guy can have the best stats and not even be a top 3 player = iverson 2005/ mcgrady 2003

[Nash]

how would the vote have been any different if media wasn't voting?

Also, how often to professionals say the wrong mvp was chosen?

[nathanjizzle]

Rose was voted mvp and his team went 1st place without him the next year



stupid, rose played both years they were in first. bulls dropped to 40 wins without rose 2 years in a row.

and according to your thought process, point guards never deserve to be mvp. The bias is obvious since small players cant be impactful right? <-only idiots think that simp.

[kennethgriffin]

stupid, rose played both years they were in first. bulls dropped to 40 wins without rose 2 years in a row.

and according to your thought process, point guards never deserve to be mvp. The bias is obvious since small players cant be impactful right? <-only idiots think that simp.


in 2012 rose only played 39 games out of 66

they still finished 1st overall 50-16 record

they were a team built on defense and coaching. rose's play making and 20 ppg had little to do with their success

rose has never been a top 5 player in the nba

[kennethgriffin]

how would the vote have been any different if media wasn't voting?

Also, how often to professionals say the wrong mvp was chosen?


the media would still influince the vote no matter whos voting. people are sheep and even the players would pick whoever was the popular choice by espn


take away twitter, facebook, espn and let the players vote based 100% on what they see on the court. then i bet shaq/kobe would have 5 mvps each

[Nash]

the media would still influince the vote no matter whos voting. people are sheep and even the players would pick whoever was the popular choice by espn


take away twitter, facebook, espn and let the players vote based 100% on what they see on the court. then i bet shaq/kobe would have 5 mvps each
take away what? in what world do you live?

also, none of these things were available when Kobe and Shaq were in the running for MVP.

[nathanjizzle]

in 2012 rose only played 39 games out of 66

they still finished 1st overall 50-16 record

they were a team built on defense and coaching. rose's play making and 20 ppg had little to do with their success

rose has never been a top 5 player in the nba

yea, im not going to go back and forth with an idiot.

[dc_chilling]

who said anything about my case being for regular season mvp or best stats

i was replying to a disagreeance over my picks for best player overall in 09 and 10. not statistical player of the year or who should be mvp

a guy can be mvp and not even be a top 5 player = rose 2011/ nash 2005 and 2006

a guy can have the best stats and not even be a top 3 player = iverson 2005/ mcgrady 2003

You missed the point.

The point was that the player who has the best overall record in the NBA, with the best statistics in the NBA, despite having an average at best supporting cast, is the best player in the NBA.

2009-2010 was the peak of Lebron's powers from an athletic standpoint. He wasn't as refined as he is now, but he may have been more dominant.

There is no version of Kobe Bryant that stacks up with Lebron when he was in his athletic prime in Cleveland.

[kennethgriffin]

take away what? in what world do you live?

also, none of these things were available when Kobe and Shaq were in the running for MVP.


espn wasnt available? the media in general wasnt available?

i said hypothetically if today players were given a vote. theyed be swayed by the media and social media

obviously the media wouldnt need to be influinced BY THE MEDIA to not vote for kobe and shaq. they snubbed and spited them well enough without needing doppelgangers to sway their vote

:lol

[dc_chilling]

espn wasnt available? the media in general wasnt available?

i said hypothetically if today players were given a vote. theyed be swayed by the media and social media

obviously the media wouldnt need to be influinced BY THE MEDIA to not vote for kobe and shaq. they snubbed and spited them well enough without needing doppelgangers to sway their vote

:lol

How baked are you?

You sound like my boys and I after we smoke a few blunts and talk about the universe and shit.

The only difference is, we sort of make sense.

[kennethgriffin]

You missed the point.

The point was that the player who has the best overall record in the NBA, with the best statistics in the NBA, despite having an average at best supporting cast, is the best player in the NBA.

2009-2010 was the peak of Lebron's powers from an athletic standpoint. He wasn't as refined as he is now, but he may have been more dominant.

There is no version of Kobe Bryant that stacks up with Lebron when he was in his athletic prime in Cleveland.

what if that player got that record playing in the east

and what if that player got those stats by stat padding in the east

and what if that player had a supporting cast that was primarily built on defense so that player could stat pad even more while playing in the east

and what if the other guy had a team built on offensive chemistry in a system that suffocated assist numbers and preached ball movement

and what if the other guy had to play that way in the ultra competitive west and only came up with 1 less victory

what if you thought with contest and objectivity relating to situations and instead of looking at something as trivial as who got more layups and actually looked at how the 2 guys got their buckets ( giving thought to skill, difficulty )

then what if you put all these things together and realized that maybe

stats dont tell the whole story. and maybe theres more to the game of basketball

or do you honestly believe the 2001 sixers were a better team than the lakers. or that 2001 iverson was better than 2001 kobe or 2001 shaq

and maybe playing in a weak confrence and being able to hog the ball all game on a defensive/rebounding team will inflate your stats and give the illusion that you're more valuable than you actually are



i can use many examples not related to kobe and lebron... there are other times they got it wrong

the best player is not simply best stats or record


get the f*ck outa here ya bum ass fool

[Kblaze8855]

Thats...more than enough.